Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
Hillis
Topic Author
Posts: 1307
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:19 pm

Family Of CLT Shooting Victim Releases Video

Fri Sep 23, 2016 6:38 pm

It doesn't show the actual shooting, but it shows the lead-up to it. The victim's wife took the video on her cell.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/23/us/charlo ... index.html

Again, you can draw no conclusions from this video, but the Police Chief continues to say they won't release their video to the public. And that alone, if you ask me, means they're coving up something.

So it continues.
 
User avatar
Moose135
Posts: 3282
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:27 pm

Re: Family Of CLT Shooting Victim Releases Video

Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:18 pm

Hillis wrote:
...the Police Chief continues to say they won't release their video to the public. And that alone, if you ask me, means they're coving up something.

Maybe, maybe not. From what I've heard (I live in Charlotte these days, so it's all over the news, obviously) is that a new law concerning police videos doesn't permit public release of these videos, and while the law doesn't take effect for a couple of weeks, officials apparently have said they will use it to govern the situation. The other point that was made was that while there is an on-going investigation, they don't want to release the videos as they may have an effect on what witnesses may say, what they actually remember versus what they see in the video.
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 11863
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Family Of CLT Shooting Victim Releases Video

Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:19 pm

Hillis wrote:
It doesn't show the actual shooting, but it shows the lead-up to it. The victim's wife took the video on her cell.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/23/us/charlo ... index.html

Again, you can draw no conclusions from this video, but the Police Chief continues to say they won't release their video to the public. And that alone, if you ask me, means they're coving up something.

So it continues.

I do not believe it means something is being covered up, I think it means they believe it will produce no useful result. They have offered to have the family view and review it, and they have stated the video does not shows anything that is definitive. But it is important that third parties are allowed to view it. If it is not definitive then I could see it being used to inflame by those that choose to see it one way or the other and that will only create more conflict. And we decidedly do not need more of that.

However I will also say that I am fairly certain the video will ultimately be released.

I do think all police video needs to be allowed to be viewed by third parties. They don't have to be released to the wider public but allowing independent (or otherwise quite frankly) outside parties to view and review any video evidence when needed I think it will improve the transparency and allow a more fair evaluation of a situation.

Tugg
 
vikkyvik
Posts: 12731
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:58 pm

Re: Family Of CLT Shooting Victim Releases Video

Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:23 pm

Moose135 wrote:
The other point that was made was that while there is an on-going investigation, they don't want to release the videos as they may have an effect on what witnesses may say, what they actually remember versus what they see in the video.


That is what I heard on the radio this morning, and it's a valid point.

Police often don't release info pertaining to active investigations. Doesn't mean there's a cover-up.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 24530
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Family Of CLT Shooting Victim Releases Video

Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:44 pm

Moose135 wrote:
Hillis wrote:
...the Police Chief continues to say they won't release their video to the public. And that alone, if you ask me, means they're coving up something.

Maybe, maybe not. From what I've heard (I live in Charlotte these days, so it's all over the news, obviously) is that a new law concerning police videos doesn't permit public release of these videos, and while the law doesn't take effect for a couple of weeks, officials apparently have said they will use it to govern the situation. The other point that was made was that while there is an on-going investigation, they don't want to release the videos as they may have an effect on what witnesses may say, what they actually remember versus what they see in the video.


It makes sense that video in police hands should not be released during an ongoing investigation, what about video shot by private citizens and posted on the internet? Also, some police forces who wear body cameras allow the officer or those within the department access to the videos. Some departments allow their officers to decide when they can turn the body cameras on. While not 100% effective, how does it instill confidence in citizens when police decide when they should be accountable?
 
User avatar
Boeing717200
Posts: 1926
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:26 pm

Re: Family Of CLT Shooting Victim Releases Video

Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:46 am

Hillis wrote:
It doesn't show the actual shooting, but it shows the lead-up to it. The victim's wife took the video on her cell.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/23/us/charlo ... index.html

Again, you can draw no conclusions from this video, but the Police Chief continues to say they won't release their video to the public. And that alone, if you ask me, means they're coving up something.

So it continues.


It's called evidence in an ongoing investigation.
 
Hillis
Topic Author
Posts: 1307
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:19 pm

Re: Family Of CLT Shooting Victim Releases Video

Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:20 pm

Boeing717200 wrote:
Hillis wrote:
It doesn't show the actual shooting, but it shows the lead-up to it. The victim's wife took the video on her cell.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/23/us/charlo ... index.html

Again, you can draw no conclusions from this video, but the Police Chief continues to say they won't release their video to the public. And that alone, if you ask me, means they're coving up something.

So it continues.


It's called evidence in an ongoing investigation.


Didn't stop the Tulsa PD from releasing several recordings of it? So much for that lame excuse.
 
User avatar
PacificBeach88
Posts: 756
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:42 pm

Re: Family Of CLT Shooting Victim Releases Video

Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:32 pm

Hillis wrote:
Didn't stop the Tulsa PD from releasing several recordings of it? So much for that lame excuse.


White, straight, male, police apologists, do what they do. *shrug* It's sad they can't portray themselves outside of their situation, but it is what it is.
 
Hillis
Topic Author
Posts: 1307
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:19 pm

Re: Family Of CLT Shooting Victim Releases Video

Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:50 pm

PacificBeach88 wrote:
Hillis wrote:
Didn't stop the Tulsa PD from releasing several recordings of it? So much for that lame excuse.


White, straight, male, police apologists, do what they do. *shrug* It's sad they can't portray themselves outside of their situation, but it is what it is.


And the CPD Chief has said now they WILL release the videos. But he claims it had nothing to do with the video released by the vicitim's wife. Uh huh, since this about-face took place like 36 hours after the release of that video, and the Chief's insistence that the public would not see the video.
 
User avatar
LenPepperbottom
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:14 am

Re: Family Of CLT Shooting Victim Releases Video

Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:44 pm

PacificBeach88 wrote:
Hillis wrote:
Didn't stop the Tulsa PD from releasing several recordings of it? So much for that lame excuse.


White, straight, male, police apologists, do what they do. *shrug* It's sad they can't portray themselves outside of their situation, but it is what it is.


Every single black man shot by police in recent months would be alive if they just complied with the police and then used the evidence (or lack thereof) to prove they were innocent. Every single one.

If an officer says to put your hands behind your back or do anything....you just do it. You will not win in that situation. Why is that so hard to understand? And this is coming from someone who dislikes the police. I might not like cops but if one pulls me over and tells me to get out, on the ground, or whatever I'm going to comply and then sort it out later.
 
Hillis
Topic Author
Posts: 1307
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:19 pm

Re: Family Of CLT Shooting Victim Releases Video

Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:37 am

LenPepperbottom wrote:
PacificBeach88 wrote:
Hillis wrote:
Didn't stop the Tulsa PD from releasing several recordings of it? So much for that lame excuse.


White, straight, male, police apologists, do what they do. *shrug* It's sad they can't portray themselves outside of their situation, but it is what it is.


Every single black man shot by police in recent months would be alive if they just complied with the police and then used the evidence (or lack thereof) to prove they were innocent. Every single one.

If an officer says to put your hands behind your back or do anything....you just do it. You will not win in that situation. Why is that so hard to understand? And this is coming from someone who dislikes the police. I might not like cops but if one pulls me over and tells me to get out, on the ground, or whatever I'm going to comply and then sort it out later.


Not complying does not warrent a death sentence! What part of that don't you get? That guy in South Carolina last year, running away from the officer? Do you really think because "he didn't comply" is a moronic cop out.

And that guy in Tulsa DID comply, and he's dead. That guy in Minnesota DID comply, told the officers he had a weapon, and had a permit for it, and when he slowly reached into his back pocket to pull it out, they shot him dead.

And that kid walking down the middle of a street in Chicago, who had a knife, but was a good 15 yards away from officers armed with guns, and who made no threatening moves, was gunned down by a cop who just arrived and didn't know what the hell was going on. Did he deserve to die, because he didn't "comply" to what suits you?

Then we have the case of a white man in Kalamazoo, Michigan a few years ago. He had an AR-51 on his person, which frightened residence. The police asked him, several times, to put the weapon down. He didn't comply. He NEVER complied. But what happened? The cops have a casual talk to him, not trying to upset him, then sit down with him and talk it out. The whole thing lasted 40 minutes. Tamir Rice in Cleveland was given about 2 seconds by cops before he was murdered, and he was just a kid.

Now, tell me if those officers had faced an African-American man doing that? Do you honestly think it would have ended that way? If you do, you're deluding yourself.
 
wingman
Posts: 4299
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

Re: Family Of CLT Shooting Victim Releases Video

Sun Sep 25, 2016 1:10 am

LenPepperbottom wrote:
Every single black man shot by police in recent months would be alive if they just complied with the police and then used the evidence (or lack thereof) to prove they were innocent. Every single one.

Just like FR8MECH I don't think you understand just quite what you're advocating for. You are, in effect, suggesting that we abandon all of rights as granted under the Constitution and willingly submit, no matter how oppressive or tyrannical, to any commands issued by the police. I assume you would also include the FBI in that statement, the military, even the national guard..so where does your "law of obedience to governmental authority" end? First off, Ben Franklin and John Adams would declare you an unworthy imbecile and send you on a return journey to Mother England circa 1776. Secondly, the NRA itself would declare you a Godless Communist tool completely devoid of any understanding of freedom and justice. For you and Fr8 any cop could stop you at any time and demand fellatio and you'd happily comply knowing that the tiniest reluctance would justify a bullet to the forehead. I honestly can't understand why either one of you hasn't emigrated to Russia or North Korea yet. There's a place for the two of you and it ain't here, not in these United States of America.

Latest update: Charlotte releases video and yeah, I must eat y words, they shot another black man and there's no gun in sight on any video. I guess the only consolation is that the fascist cop this time was a black man. Maybe Charlotte will burn a little less.
 
Hillis
Topic Author
Posts: 1307
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:19 pm

Re: Family Of CLT Shooting Victim Releases Video

Sun Sep 25, 2016 2:04 am

wingman wrote:
LenPepperbottom wrote:
Every single black man shot by police in recent months would be alive if they just complied with the police and then used the evidence (or lack thereof) to prove they were innocent. Every single one.

Just like FR8MECH I don't think you understand just quite what you're advocating for. You are, in effect, suggesting that we abandon all of rights as granted under the Constitution and willingly submit, no matter how oppressive or tyrannical, to any commands issued by the police. I assume you would also include the FBI in that statement, the military, even the national guard..so where does your "law of obedience to governmental authority" end? First off, Ben Franklin and John Adams would declare you an unworthy imbecile and send you on a return journey to Mother England circa 1776. Secondly, the NRA itself would declare you a Godless Communist tool completely devoid of any understanding of freedom and justice. For you and Fr8 any cop could stop you at any time and demand fellatio and you'd happily comply knowing that the tiniest reluctance would justify a bullet to the forehead. I honestly can't understand why either one of you hasn't emigrated to Russia or North Korea yet. There's a place for the two of you and it ain't here, not in these United States of America.

Latest update: Charlotte releases video and yeah, I must eat y words, they shot another black man and there's no gun in sight on any video. I guess the only consolation is that the fascist cop this time was a black man. Maybe Charlotte will burn a little less.


Bingo. The man hit the nail right on the head.
 
User avatar
PacificBeach88
Posts: 756
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:42 pm

Re: Family Of CLT Shooting Victim Releases Video

Sun Sep 25, 2016 2:29 am

wingman wrote:
LenPepperbottom wrote:
Every single black man shot by police in recent months would be alive if they just complied with the police and then used the evidence (or lack thereof) to prove they were innocent. Every single one.

Just like FR8MECH I don't think you understand just quite what you're advocating for. You are, in effect, suggesting that we abandon all of rights as granted under the Constitution and willingly submit, no matter how oppressive or tyrannical, to any commands issued by the police. I assume you would also include the FBI in that statement, the military, even the national guard..so where does your "law of obedience to governmental authority" end? First off, Ben Franklin and John Adams would declare you an unworthy imbecile and send you on a return journey to Mother England circa 1776. Secondly, the NRA itself would declare you a Godless Communist tool completely devoid of any understanding of freedom and justice. For you and Fr8 any cop could stop you at any time and demand fellatio and you'd happily comply knowing that the tiniest reluctance would justify a bullet to the forehead. I honestly can't understand why either one of you hasn't emigrated to Russia or North Korea yet. There's a place for the two of you and it ain't here, not in these United States of America.

Latest update: Charlotte releases video and yeah, I must eat y words, they shot another black man and there's no gun in sight on any video. I guess the only consolation is that the fascist cop this time was a black man. Maybe Charlotte will burn a little less.


This bears repeating. Instead of shipping them off to North Korea, I'd suggest they be forced to drive as a black man for 6 months. Watching my fellow Minnesotan get blown away for COMPLYING with police orders is devastating. Frankly, a complete revamp of every major police department is needed, and gutting at least 25% of the force for a complete retraining exercise of a year is needed. Replace these high school only educated men/women, and replace them with Vets and college graduates. Being a peace officer requires far more training and education than being a McDonald's fry cook.

We as a country need to get away from this so-called "Broken Windows Policing" http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/artic ... -policing/ which is actually "Zero Tolerance Policing" and get back to what worked best....Community Policing.
 
User avatar
Boeing717200
Posts: 1926
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:26 pm

Re: Family Of CLT Shooting Victim Releases Video

Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:31 pm

Hillis wrote:
Boeing717200 wrote:
Hillis wrote:
It doesn't show the actual shooting, but it shows the lead-up to it. The victim's wife took the video on her cell.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/23/us/charlo ... index.html

Again, you can draw no conclusions from this video, but the Police Chief continues to say they won't release their video to the public. And that alone, if you ask me, means they're coving up something.

So it continues.


It's called evidence in an ongoing investigation.


Didn't stop the Tulsa PD from releasing several recordings of it? So much for that lame excuse.


Lame excuse? The evidence in Charlotte has zero to do with what's going on in Tulsa.
 
User avatar
Boeing717200
Posts: 1926
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:26 pm

Re: Family Of CLT Shooting Victim Releases Video

Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:32 pm

PacificBeach88 wrote:
Hillis wrote:
Didn't stop the Tulsa PD from releasing several recordings of it? So much for that lame excuse.


White, straight, male, police apologists, do what they do. *shrug* It's sad they can't portray themselves outside of their situation, but it is what it is.


Do you actual post anything of value in this forum? I have yet to witness it. This thread is about Charlotte and you want to pretend Tulsa is relevant when it's not. Get outta here with that nonsense.
Last edited by Boeing717200 on Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
User avatar
Boeing717200
Posts: 1926
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:26 pm

Re: Family Of CLT Shooting Victim Releases Video

Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:34 pm

LenPepperbottom wrote:
PacificBeach88 wrote:
Hillis wrote:
Didn't stop the Tulsa PD from releasing several recordings of it? So much for that lame excuse.


White, straight, male, police apologists, do what they do. *shrug* It's sad they can't portray themselves outside of their situation, but it is what it is.


Every single black man shot by police in recent months would be alive if they just complied with the police and then used the evidence (or lack thereof) to prove they were innocent. Every single one.

If an officer says to put your hands behind your back or do anything....you just do it. You will not win in that situation. Why is that so hard to understand? And this is coming from someone who dislikes the police. I might not like cops but if one pulls me over and tells me to get out, on the ground, or whatever I'm going to comply and then sort it out later.


Don't point out the obvious, their heads might explode.
 
Hillis
Topic Author
Posts: 1307
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:19 pm

Re: Family Of CLT Shooting Victim Releases Video

Sun Sep 25, 2016 5:25 pm

Boeing717200 wrote:
PacificBeach88 wrote:
Hillis wrote:
Didn't stop the Tulsa PD from releasing several recordings of it? So much for that lame excuse.


White, straight, male, police apologists, do what they do. *shrug* It's sad they can't portray themselves outside of their situation, but it is what it is.


Do you actual post anything of value in this forum? I have yet to witness it. This thread is about Charlotte and you want to pretend Tulsa is relevant when it's not. Get outta here with that nonsense.


You don't get it, do you? To you, none of this is connected, when all of it is connected: Tulsa, North Charleston, Chicago, St. Anthony, Minnesota, Baton Rouge, and I could go on. Every single one of these were situations wher a man was killed, and shouldn't have been, because of police over-reaction.

These aren't fragments; they're a pattern of law enforcement treating African-Americans far differently than they do whites. It's just mind-boggling that you can't see that, yes, they are connected.
 
User avatar
Boeing717200
Posts: 1926
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:26 pm

Re: Family Of CLT Shooting Victim Releases Video

Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:29 pm

Hillis wrote:
Boeing717200 wrote:
PacificBeach88 wrote:

White, straight, male, police apologists, do what they do. *shrug* It's sad they can't portray themselves outside of their situation, but it is what it is.


Do you actual post anything of value in this forum? I have yet to witness it. This thread is about Charlotte and you want to pretend Tulsa is relevant when it's not. Get outta here with that nonsense.


You don't get it, do you? To you, none of this is connected, when all of it is connected: Tulsa, North Charleston, Chicago, St. Anthony, Minnesota, Baton Rouge, and I could go on. Every single one of these were situations wher a man was killed, and shouldn't have been, because of police over-reaction.

These aren't fragments; they're a pattern of law enforcement treating African-Americans far differently than they do whites. It's just mind-boggling that you can't see that, yes, they are connected.


No, they are not connected. They are two entirely different incidents with completely separate investigations in two entirely different cities.
 
Hillis
Topic Author
Posts: 1307
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:19 pm

Re: Family Of CLT Shooting Victim Releases Video

Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:13 pm

Boeing717200 wrote:
Hillis wrote:
Boeing717200 wrote:

Do you actual post anything of value in this forum? I have yet to witness it. This thread is about Charlotte and you want to pretend Tulsa is relevant when it's not. Get outta here with that nonsense.


You don't get it, do you? To you, none of this is connected, when all of it is connected: Tulsa, North Charleston, Chicago, St. Anthony, Minnesota, Baton Rouge, and I could go on. Every single one of these were situations wher a man was killed, and shouldn't have been, because of police over-reaction.

These aren't fragments; they're a pattern of law enforcement treating African-Americans far differently than they do whites. It's just mind-boggling that you can't see that, yes, they are connected.


No, they are not connected. They are two entirely different incidents with completely separate investigations in two entirely different cities.


Good gawd, but are you blind. Doesn't matter if they're different cities, and different investigations, they all show the same pattern of resorting to deadly force against African-Americans far quicker than would happen to whites. I gave you the examply of that white guy in Michagan who didn't obey police orders; kept the weapon out, but the cops took 40 minutes to diffuse the situation.

You need to think deeper than "well, it's in separate cities". That's just, pardon the pun, a cop-out.

And that's the problem far too much of white America has. They simply don't want to see what's going on, and instead try to apologize for or justify this kind of brutality.
 
User avatar
PacificBeach88
Posts: 756
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:42 pm

Re: Family Of CLT Shooting Victim Releases Video

Sun Sep 25, 2016 10:48 pm

Hillis wrote:
Good gawd, but are you blind. Doesn't matter if they're different cities, and different investigations, they all show the same pattern of resorting to deadly force against African-Americans far quicker than would happen to whites. I gave you the examply of that white guy in Michagan who didn't obey police orders; kept the weapon out, but the cops took 40 minutes to diffuse the situation.

You need to think deeper than "well, it's in separate cities". That's just, pardon the pun, a cop-out.

And that's the problem far too much of white America has. They simply don't want to see what's going on, and instead try to apologize for or justify this kind of brutality.


This is EXACTLY what I was trying to say. The usual deniers want to take each and every incident and pick, parce, and rebuild a narrative that the victim is to blame. Ie...."if she wasn't wearing such a short skirt she wouldn't have been raped", or "if she wasn't out past 1 am she wouldn't have gotten raped". And they could have a case in a handful of cases, but they are blind to the instances where HUNDREDS of times per year, highly speculative, doubtful, and even down right lying by officers have murdered minorities.

And yet these same deniers are agog at "terrorists" in our midst, and want to ban entire races and religions from the USA. Yet, as an American one is 55 times MORE LIKELY to be blown away by cops than by terrorists. Yet these deniers love Donald Trump, and piss and moan about Colin K.'s silent, peaceful, knee-bent, protest of the national anthem. And someone pissed and moaned to the mods about my Archie Bunker comment. Unreal.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/youre-55-t ... st/5434934
 
User avatar
Boeing717200
Posts: 1926
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:26 pm

Re: Family Of CLT Shooting Victim Releases Video

Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:57 am

Hillis wrote:
Boeing717200 wrote:
Hillis wrote:

You don't get it, do you? To you, none of this is connected, when all of it is connected: Tulsa, North Charleston, Chicago, St. Anthony, Minnesota, Baton Rouge, and I could go on. Every single one of these were situations wher a man was killed, and shouldn't have been, because of police over-reaction.

These aren't fragments; they're a pattern of law enforcement treating African-Americans far differently than they do whites. It's just mind-boggling that you can't see that, yes, they are connected.


No, they are not connected. They are two entirely different incidents with completely separate investigations in two entirely different cities.


Good gawd, but are you blind. Doesn't matter if they're different cities, and different investigations, they all show the same pattern of resorting to deadly force against African-Americans far quicker than would happen to whites. I gave you the examply of that white guy in Michagan who didn't obey police orders; kept the weapon out, but the cops took 40 minutes to diffuse the situation.

You need to think deeper than "well, it's in separate cities". That's just, pardon the pun, a cop-out.

And that's the problem far too much of white America has. They simply don't want to see what's going on, and instead try to apologize for or justify this kind of brutality.


I'm going put you on ignore, because one can only take so much nonsense. The question was why hasn't Charllotte released its video like Tulsa has. The answer was it's evidence in an ongoing investigation. Just because another police department, in another city, with different incident, and a different investigative process or stage of said process does one thing does not mean the two are related and should treat said evidence in the same way. If you are incapable of understanding that, then it's simply not possible to have a conversation with you. I'd imagine it's the same kind of irrational world view that says cities must burn every time a shooting happens.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: bananaboy, FGITD, ITMercure, seb146 and 53 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos