It would be churlish of me indeed not to thank neutrino for his kind gesture and cougar 15 for his kind words! I am in fact posting on the MH17 thread, at least pro tem. I like neutrino's Latin tag, wise words from long ago! The dark side not only do not like me, they fear me, as they fear the truth generally. If the MH17 thread is block I have had two articles published online in the last 24 hours in response to the flawed JIT and OVV reports, on UKIP Daily and http://www.VeteransToday.com
Is this your handy work? http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/10/02 ... t-on-mh17/
Well, were to start then? I was much amused by the comment, "with respect", since you show exactly no respect what so ever, not for the process, not for the people involved, not for the hard evidence, not for the victimsfamily, none. Fact checker:
"JIT effectively accused the Russian Armed Forces of shooting down MH17." false, it didn't do that.
"The ridiculous theory that “the rebels did it” has now been abandoned by Western officialdom" false, it never have been the official point of view of any government body here in the Netherlands. None and rightly so. The official position is, let the independent prosecutors figure it out, trias politica might ring a bell.
"sinister Bellingcat website (no offense intended)" false, you did intended to offend.
"which was fronting for Ukraine," false, do you really think, Dutch, Belgium and Australian prosecutors are fronting for another country?
"effectively accused the Russian Federation of committing an Act of War against inter alia the Kingdom of the Netherlands, many of whose nationals were on the flight and Malaysia." False, no such thing and it is quite ridiculous statement to make. In the future they might accuse the RF of a warcrime, but that is something completely different.
" which ignored Russian data and was entirely one-sided." false and half-false. The JIT even went to Russia to listen to all their 'evidence' and it only list what can be proven, if you call that one-sided, then yes it is.
"no more independent or reliable than the CPS in the UK" don't know the system in the UK, but I do know it in the Netherlands. In the Anglo saxon system, the prosecutor is there to get a verdict. In the Netherlands, they are actually committed to finding the truth, so in the Netherlands it is not barraster against prosecutor, but more independent role. Totally different.
"The pro-EU Dutch Foreign Minister" Of course all ministers are pro-EU, the Netherlands is in the EU, so why drag this comment in there, no reason to.
"then summoned the sheer gall and impertinence to call in HE the Russian Ambassador to the Netherlands. A complete diplomatic breach between Russia and the Netherlands is now in prospect." Why? Let me tell you about some incidents the Russian - Dutch relationship of the last few years:
1. Russian diplomate's wife rammed some cars in a dronken state, the Russian diplomate in question was also dronk and his 2y/o and 4 y/o were screaming, frightened of their own parents. The Dutch police came and took the diplomate to the police station, like they would do with this kind of behavior to protect the children. Just protocol. Well the policed couldnot do this, because of diplomatic immunity, they later apologized, for this. No such apology from the Russian side and a thank you for protecting Russian children against their parents. Instead a Dutch diplomate was attack in his home in Russia, quite a coincidence.
2. Greenpeace ship was attacked in international waters and brought to St. Petersburg and all its sailors were held there, against their will, illegally. The ship is Dutch registered, so another incident between the two.
3. Russia has been taken to international court and lost, was ordered to pay for the damage to the ship.
4. Dutch national gay student activist arrested
5. When Russia is crossed with Holland, they find all kinds of thinks in flowers or meat, resulting in a ban.
6. EU sanctioned Russia for Crimea and intervene in Ukraine
7. Russia sanctioned EU/America fruit, vegetables etc.
And now this:
8. relentless discrediting the JIT investigation with all kind of rubbish. So rightly so the Dutch foreign minister summit the Russian ambassador to tell Russia to stop it and comply with the UN resolution. The Dutch ambassador was also summited. So what is your point exactly?
"The JIT report is in fact junk" false, it isn't junk
"and Moscow were right to slam it." false, they had no right.
"In a shrewd move the Russians pre-empted the JIT press release by releasing primary radar data which had been stored and overlooked, which pretty much blew the OVV report out of the water." really, two years of searching and 1 day before the release of the interim conclusions of the JIT, tada there it is. The data hasn't been released to the OVV so they could not act on it, the JIT, if they ever were to receive it, they will examen it and let's first wait for their conclusions before saying what blew what out of the water. So that statement is also false.
"The JIT is not a UN body" true
"It’s just a group of policemen and public prosecutors assembled by Kiev." false, it is a multinational team made up of Ukrainian, Belgium, Dutch, Malaysian and Australian prosecutors and investigators. The group is headed by the Dutch prosecutors. You made it sounds like Kiev just went to the street and looked for some random people in Kiev. Misleading at best, false
"None of its members seems to have any aviation expertise, indeed it would be fair to say that none of its members possesses any relevant qualification to conduct such a sensitive investigation." they rely on experts, like they do in any investigation, misleading at best, false
"Absurdly, it has relied upon social media reports and information, or disinformation, as the case may be, supplied by the anti-Russian Bellingcat propaganda website." Misleading again, social media reports is one part of the evidence, in it self not hard evidence, so it was combined with hard evidence, BUK fragment, radartracks, interviews by Dutch prosecutors and investigators, cell phone calls, phonemast etc.
This is what they did in over two years of research:
- 100 - 200 investigators
- 1.000-ends of pieces of the plane investigated
- 60 request of legal assistance world wide
- 5bn webpages looked at
- 500.000 video's and photos analyzed.
- 200plus witnesses interviewed.
- 150.000 cell phone calls analyzed
- 6.000 official reports analyzed.
I would say that is pretty impressive and though. So the claim is false, thy relied upon it, they didn't. They researched it them self, Bellingcat did provided their research, but then it was all checked and checked again.
"Those two stolen Russian warheads smuggled into London by the DVD and GO2 in 2012. (I am glad to report that the police chief under whose nose those nukes were smuggled into London resigned this week, apparently not of his own volition)." until solid evidence is provided from a reliable in depended source, I rank this as false. Two Russian nukes in London? Well the Russia has a real problem and can't be trusted to have nukes.
"Sadly for the police, we have yet to invent a prosthetic brain." Ridiculous statement again.
"he OVV report is one of the three legs of the triad upon which the JIT rely, the others being heavily-edited COMINT supplied by the dodgy SBU and social media/Bellingcat." False, it's not.
"The trouble is that the OVV report suffers from fatal defects, to the point where many of its conclusions simply cannot be supported." False, it's not.
"The OVV itself is a deeply-troubled institution. It’s run by a Dutch bureaucrat, Tjibbe Joustra, who was given the job as part of a deal after he was caught up in a scandal involving misuse of public money. I express no view, of course, on whether he was actually involved in impropriety. All I say is that there was a scandal, his name was mentioned and he resigned."
- Okey, the OVV isn't troubled even if, and he isn't, it's director is. The OVV is highly respected organization, in the Netherlands as well as abroad. False.
- Now Tjibbe Joustra was head of the UWV, he let his office be rebuild, far too luxuriously for a bureaucrat, not something you must do here. That's why he had to resign, nothing as spectacular as you seem to imply. The funny think is, that the writer missed the fact that Tjibbe Joustra was head of the Nationaal Coördinator Terrorismebestrijding (NCTb), anti terrorism, so he was involved in the intelligence services.
"Joustra is also suspected in some quarters of supporting Dutch membership of the EU, an organization which we now know was set up by German Intelligence." Why is that important? The EU has no part into the MH17 tragedy what so ever and false, EU wasn't set up by German Intelligence.
"Joustra’s specialism seems to be food. I doubt he’s ever flown a plane. At any rate, his aviation credentials are obscure. So far as the loss of MH17 is concerned his expertise would appear to be limited to criticising the menu, which, knowing Malaysian, was probably fine anyway." now this is an Ad Hominem, and bullshit. Like I said before, the director isn't that much involved, the OVV are experts in their field, the director isn't one of them and doesn't need to be.
"(1) It lacks objectivity. It proceeds from a pro-Ukraine, anti-Russian perspective, to the point where Russian data is rejected automatically and Ukrainian data accepted without critical analysis." Russia was involved in the OVV investigation, so bullshit. Russian data was checked and found to be false:
- Su25 could not have done it
- CIA could not have done it
- Bomb could not have done it
"(2) It lacks intellectual rigor. It rejects data without giving sufficient reasons and glosses over major problems with the evidence. Without citing my reporting, e.g., it rejects the theory I first put forward in 2014 on VT, that the plane was brought down by a combination of cannon fire from a Ukrainian Su-25 and a Chinese Buk, partly on the ground that the first officer’s body had been penetrated by shrapnel consistent with a GN314M warhead, but fails to explain why the captain, sitting on the side of the plane I suggest the cannon attack came from, had no trace in his body of the distinctive fragmentation shrapnel associated with that warhead." The writer has a theory and it was rejected, boehoe, whom is the writer to come up with a theory, how credible is he, what is his expertise and why should he be taken seriously. Well let me put it this way, I can debunk this theory. The Su25 can't fly this high, fully armed, the Su25 can't fly as fast as a 777 in cruise, so there is no way that a Su25 did this, impossible, end of theory. But wait there is more, the shrapnel is from a specific BUK missile only in use with the Russian army. Hard evidence, so no Chinese buk.
"(3)" don't understand the point even, can't know if false or not.
"(4) It notes, correctly, that one of the cabin pressure relief valves was found in the open position, without assessing the implications, one of which was depressurisation in lower fuselage, creating a pressure differential with the cabin, which the valve was designed to prevent (these valves came in to correct one of the flaws in the design of the DC-10, shared with other first-generation wide-bodies, where the cabin floor could collapse following a loss of pressure in a cargo hold). The open valve suggests that the hull aft of the cockpit was penetrated from below, not above." More theories then that can be heard.
"(5) It concludes that the warhead detonated just feet away from the aircraft without a technical analysis of the proximity fuze, i.e. it wholly fails to explain why the warhead did not detonate as it approached the aircraft." false
"(6) It rejects the cannon-fire theory partly on metallurgical analysis, without considering the metallurgy of the various types of cannon round the Ukrainian Air Force Su-25 could have used." false, the SU25 couldnot have done it.
"(7) Its timeline is out by about 7.5 minutes. It assumes that hull break-up commenced shortly after MH17 went off air and the CVR and FDR kicked out, at 1320, gives a credible time to ground impact from commencement of hull break-up as 60-90 seconds but then gives the impact time as about 1330. Not fixing the precise time of impact of the major wreckage was sloppy, with respect. 300 tons of airplane falling out of the sky, even in pieces, is the sort of thing that gets noticed, even in the Eastern Ukraine, and ground impact will usually stop several hundred watches and digital timers in mobile phones, laptops and other equipment. If you don’t believe me, try dropping your laptop 31,000 feet and see if it still works." unimportant detail at best, can't asses if true or not.
"(8) The crime scene was seriously contaminated and investigators took weeks to get there. At no time was it ever properly secured." true, there was a war fought and what did you expect the Dutch to do? Go in with marines and secure the site? Even the victim families were quoted to say that they didn't want any more lives lost over the dead.
"(9) It resort to wild speculation instead of sticking to the facts, or at least acknowledging the gaps in the evidence. The wildest piece of speculation in the report is the suggestion that the oxygen mask found fitted to a passenger was put there by one of the people trampling over the crash site before the OVV eventually got there – why on earth would anybody want to do that? The suggestion is bizarre. It is far more likely that the cabin oxygen masks dropped, and at least one of the poor, terrified passengers had time to put it on, and tie it securely, so that it was not dislodged when their seat hit the ground. The oxygen mask evidence supports the cannon-fire strafing theory and suggests non-explosive decompression, at least initially. Other oxygen masks appear to have dropped, but as their plane came under armed attack without warning most passengers would have frozen." it doesn't support anything. If all the passengers and crew were on oxygen masks, then yeah, but one, no, does not mean anything. False suggestion by mr Timmermans in the UN.
"(10) The supposed SAM launch area is not supported by the missile manufacturer, who may safely be presumed to know more about the missile they designed than the Dutch investigators. No variant of the Buk has ever been used, or so far as I know even fired, by the Dutch Armed Forces, and" The BUK manufacturer is Russian, so not too reliable in this case, since all evidence provided by the Russians proved to be falls. The Dutch led JIT team did blow up a BUK, a Finnish one and there is a lot known about the missile in the defense intelligence community. So quite a ridiculous statement to make.
"(11) The report obsesses on Russian-made versions of the Buk. It doesn’t even mention the three Chinese versions, the HQ-16, HQ-16A and HQ-16B, although we can probably rule out the latter, as there is no reliable reporting of it having entered service with the PLA by July 2014." Again pieces of a specific type of missile were found, they ruled out very other variant, because they had a positive match.
"I respectfully maintain the analysis I first put forward on VT in 2014: MH-17 was shot down by a Chinese PLA HQ-16 truck-mounted launcher, after Ukrainian ATC directed MH-17 into the kill zone and a Ukrainian Air Force Su-25, on combat power, lightened by having its titanium armor bath removed, disabled the crew, making MH370-style evasive maneuvers impossible, with 30 mil cannon fire, attacking from the port side" I respectfully call this a flawed theory with no evidence what so ever to back this up. Why on earth would Ukraine do something like this and why on earth would they do it in such a crappy manner. They have Su27 and Mig29 if they really want to shoot down a plane. False theory.
"I entirely acquit the Russian Government and Armed Forces of responsibility in the matter and condemn the reckless speculation in the MSM about Russian military involvement in this outrageous armed attack upon a civilian airliner, with 298 souls aboard, proceeding along her allotted flight path upon her lawful occasions." So what the writer basically says, no matter what the evidence is, the Russian Government is innocent. Well my friend, you are entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts.
This is one of the worst pieces of propaganda I have ever read. What a piece of crab. Almost every sentence is false of biased or a frame.