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Hillis
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So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:49 am

Simple question. But it can get a lot more complicated than just that.

What if he's extremely defiant about it, and he does what he does best, which is egg on his supporters not to accept the outcome, even if Hillary Clinton wins in a landslide?
How far would Trump and his supporters take their defiance?

This is a scenario you discuss when talking about somwhere in Africa, or Central America, not in the United States. And it would be easy to dismiss Trump's bluster if not for the fact he's blustered his way this far, and this close to the presidency of the United States.

I'd like to think that this couldn't happen in this nation, but we have a large group of people supporting Donald Trump, who is the most unqualified candidate ever to run for the office, as their nominee, and they've shown they don't care what he says or does, they'll just keep following him. If he tells them to oppose the results, they'll do it.
 
ContentCreator
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:26 am

If its a very close election in certain precincts I can see a legitimate call for a recount, which is totally fine and should be done. However, if the votes are off by many of thousands or millions then it'll just be a pointless exercise. He can sue but any court would probably reject the case outright. I highly doubt even Trump would consider that as the pressure he would face would even be too much for him. He still has a business to run after all.

He could also not concede which is fine. While not being in the spirit of the process it'll be a lot of eye rolling and the transition will move on with out as much as a "Well, that was interesting." The pressure from the GOP will be quite strong and he will be universally condemned.

As for his supporters we might see a handful of really crazy people marching on local courts with flags and what not but I suspect most will just go on like they always have- complaining on talk radio, online forums and annoying their coworkers with their inane theories.

99% of Trump voters are just like you and me. They might be misguided and passionate but to think they are some rabid, homicidal group of madmen is just not true.

Don't fall victim to the hysteria. This election, while being unusual in its characters, has proceeded in an orderly fashion with zero real talk of anything disrupting the outcome.
Last edited by ContentCreator on Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:32 am

Well, not much. First of all, for those who aren't American, or those who are and have forgotten their basic civics class, the President is not elected on November 8th. The PRESIDENTIAL ELECTORS are elected on November 8th. However, because the electors will vote predictably, the President-elect is informally known after the election. The electors don't actually meet to elect the actual President until early January.

Donald Trump does not have to concede. Concession is a public tradition and is generally considered important to re-establishing unity after the election.

But if Mr. Trump does not concede, Mrs. Clinton (assuming she wins) will still become the President. Some scenarios:
1) Mr. Trump does not concede and tries to sue in a court:
---In this case he would have to prove that voter fraud occurred and he would have to do so in multiple states at once. It would be a formidable legal hurdle and a very expensive one.
2) Mr. Trump does not concede and instructs his supporters to violently rebel.
---In this case Mr. Trump would be committing insurrection and would find himself arrested and facing federal criminal charges.
3) Mr. Trump does not concede and shows up the inauguration and tries to assume the Presidency.
---Mr. Trump would be dealt with as any ordinary trespasser trying to enter the White House illegally.
4) Mr. Trump does not concede and takes no further action.
---That would simply look bad, but would have no effect. Some of his supporters might stage violent attempts at revolution, which would be quickly squashed. But otherwise Mrs. Clinton would assume the Presidency on 20 January at noon.

More importantly, the Obama Administration and the Clinton Campaign need to have a plan of action for scenario (2). While arresting, charging, and convicting him would be simple it would also be a PR disaster and would martyr him to his supporters. A more subtle campaign of public humiliation might do the trick. That said, I know Mr. Trump is stupid and impulsive, but I think his handlers would take aggressive action if he actually moved for insurrection because their own livelihoods and incomes depend on him not being divested of all his holdings and put in prison (or executed).
 
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Dreadnought
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:04 am

Hillis wrote:
Simple question. But it can get a lot more complicated than just that.

What if he's extremely defiant about it, and he does what he does best, which is egg on his supporters not to accept the outcome, even if Hillary Clinton wins in a landslide?
How far would Trump and his supporters take their defiance?

This is a scenario you discuss when talking about somwhere in Africa, or Central America, not in the United States. And it would be easy to dismiss Trump's bluster if not for the fact he's blustered his way this far, and this close to the presidency of the United States.

I'd like to think that this couldn't happen in this nation, but we have a large group of people supporting Donald Trump, who is the most unqualified candidate ever to run for the office, as their nominee, and they've shown they don't care what he says or does, they'll just keep following him. If he tells them to oppose the results, they'll do it.


You have a short memory. Al Gore did exactly that in 2000, and Democrats had no problem with it.

We have DNC operatives on camera admitting that they organize voter fraud and use intimidation and baiting tactics against their opponents. The voter fraud part has been going on, by their own admission, for half a century (and we know the LBJ administration was famous for it.) So yes, we have every reason to be skeptical of the election results.

Put the shoe on the other foot. If the GOP had a long history of voter fraud and GOP operatives were caught on camera talking about how they do it, would you simply accept it without challenge?
 
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DocLightning
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:14 am

Dreadnought wrote:
We have DNC operatives on camera admitting that they organize voter fraud and use intimidation and baiting tactics against their opponents. The voter fraud part has been going on, by their own admission, for half a century (and we know the LBJ administration was famous for it.) So yes, we have every reason to be skeptical of the election results.


I will make you a deal:

You either 1) Credibly post this information or 2) Delete your account on A.net
 
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Dreadnought
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:26 am

DocLightning wrote:
I will make you a deal:

You either 1) Credibly post this information or 2) Delete your account on A.net


http://projectveritasaction.com/rigging ... fraud.html

And now the first of probably several complaints have been officially registered at the Federal Election Commission.

https://publicinterestlegal.org/files/P ... plaint.pdf
 
 
jpetekyxmd80
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:48 am

Dreadnought used to have an opinion worth listening to once in awhile. Now hes just sad.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:00 am

DocLightning wrote:

Would be a better idea to find independent sources. Doesn't work to use self-defense. Those urls aren't even worth opening.

Democrats (and Hillary herself) have complained before about rigged elections. Shoot, we just had a rigged election in the case of Sanders versus Clinton. It's the pot calling the kettle black, but now it's spun as another bash on Trump thanks to a mainstream media that is now clearly an extension of the Democrat Party. If Hillary wins legitimately and Trump refuses to concede, nothing big will happen. The process will go on as usual. Conceding is no more than a traditional formality in today's world.
 
jpetekyxmd80
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:26 am

MSPNWA wrote:
Shoot, we just had a rigged election in the case of Sanders versus Clinton.



Aaaaaand, you have no idea what you are talking about. Shocker.


Oh and what the hell.. ill tell you why, not that you will care about the truth.

1. Its not an election. It's a nomination. The process a party uses to nominate a candidate is up to them, and them alone.
2. This process with the superdelegates gives some party members more clout than others. That is their choice. There are pros and cons of different ways to do it. The Republicans sure as hell wish they had that process this time around. Either way, surely much more democratic than when the parties didn't even bother and these smoke filled back rooms. Even then, their choice. Nothing was rigged. A party chooses its nomination process, period. You might not like it, but that is their prerogative.
3. Hillary did years of groundwork to prepare for the process. Bernie could have done the same. He didn't. He didn't even run as a Democrat, but as an independent. If he had been more serious earlier about running for president, he could have planned ahead and competed better. None of this process was a secret.

So, care to tell me more about this "rigged election"???


Hope you learned something, you could use it.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:44 am

MSPNWA wrote:
Would be a better idea to find independent sources. Doesn't work to use self-defense. Those urls aren't even worth opening.


You don't like privately funded independent sources (Snopes). You don't like publicly funded independent sources (NPR).

So what you're saying is that you only like sources that reinforce your preconceived notions. No, that's not how this works. That's not how ANY of this works.
 
jpetekyxmd80
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:46 am

Breitbart or infowars or it didnt happen.
 
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scbriml
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:13 am

Dreadnought wrote:
http://projectveritasaction.com/rigging-election-video-ii-mass-voter-fraud.html

And now the first of probably several complaints have been officially registered at the Federal Election Commission.

https://publicinterestlegal.org/files/P ... plaint.pdf


Image
 
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seb146
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:25 am

Trump has already subtly told his minions to revolt. Not one eye batted on the right. When it was shown how easy it was to hack a Deibold voting machine by Howard Dean, not one eye batted on the right.

Only now, when Hillary is nearly the president and Obama has been president for eight years are the righties mad as hell. They can not rig and steal elections, so they insist the "liberals" are doing it. As my father used to say, when you point one finger, three are pointing back.....
 
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seb146
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:28 am

jpetekyxmd80 wrote:
Dreadnought used to have an opinion worth listening to once in awhile. Now hes just sad.


As much as I disagreed with him for a very long time, I had respect for him. In the past six months or so, he has just gone off the deep end. He used to make me think and research and read. Now, it is just sad.

The optimist in me keeps hoping his account was hacked. But, the pessimist in me thinks he just snapped.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:05 am

It must be comforting to think that you're right. That a silent and silenced majority stands with you. It must make them feel better to believe that the country is so rigged. That this is their enemies' fault.

No, it's not. It's their own fault. They chose intolerance and bigotry and convinced themselves that it was righteousness and love. And now they can't assume their own blame. It's pathetic.

And it's the most unpatriotic thing I've ever seen an American do.
 
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PacificBeach88
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:29 am

90% of American's will just be happy the whole election clown show is over. We have a Constitution, we'll be fine. If Donald doesn't concede, he will simply be viewed as petty and a new low in Presidential history footnotes. *shrug*
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:00 pm

Dreadnought wrote:
You have a short memory. Al Gore did exactly that in 2000, and Democrats had no problem with it.

You also have a short memory, where the whole election hinged on the outcome of Florida's electoral votes. So of course Al Gore wasn't going to concede just yet. And because he specifically requested a recount (allowed under state law), it was meant to be carried out completely. This is different from having a predicted blowout with well over 300 EC votes and leaving only one or two states (whose EC vote will not be enough to change the final outcome) with a close race.

For example, if Clinton snatches Arizona by a thin margin, Trump has every right to request a recount if it falls within the margin allowed by state law. However, if he's focused on voter fraud in AZ (a GOP-led state) and you take out AZ's 11 votes and Clinton would still win, if he refuses to concede, that's just being a spoiled brat. It's a different story if the whole election depends on AZ's 11 votes (doubt it).
 
GGtai
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:57 pm

The other side of the coin, If Tump wins, will HRC concede or contest the results? Do you think that Obama will help HRC? If he does help her, I wonder what he will do? Mmmm Just thinking!
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:09 pm

GGtai wrote:
The other side of the coin, If HRC loses, will she concede or contest the results? Do you think that Obama will help HRC? If he does help her, I wonder what he will do? Mmmm Just thinking!

Troll alert

On the first debate each was asked the same question HRC said right up front that she will accept the outcome of the election. That doesn't mean she's not entitled to a recount if it's close, but if it's clear that Trump emerged victorious, that's that.

Pray tell: how could Obama help HRC? Each election is run at the state level. So unless the federal government has infiltrated into the polling stations, I wonder how Obama can even help HRC win other than endorse and campaign for her.

Lay off the Kool Aid and take of the tinfoil hat.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:17 pm

PacificBeach88 wrote:
he will simply be viewed as petty and a new low in Presidential history footnotes.


I'm pretty sure he's achieved that already.

I'm also pretty sure he will make some sort of fuss about losing the election. Not because he will actually try make make a power grab of some sort, but just to protect his ego.
He will simply refuse to concede, make a scene about how it was stolen from him and slowly retreat back into oblivion while the smoke settles.
His is too incredibly vain to admit any sort of defeat, despite his extensive history of such failures, but way too much of a coward to escalate the whole thing into a full out assault on the electoral machine.

At least he's a constant source of entertainment... The mainstream media could not have wished for such a wealth of highly rating-friendly material on a daily basis if they had been able to.
 
LMP737
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:51 pm

Dreadnought wrote:

You have a short memory. Al Gore did exactly that in 2000, and Democrats had no problem with it.


Do not compare what is happening now to what happened in 2000. It is intellectually dishonest.

Was Al Gore saying before the election that he would accept the results only in he won? No he didn't. What he did do was ask for a recount as the election was at razor thin margins. Bush opposed it and the Supreme Court ruled in his favor. Then Al Gore on the floor of the US Senate read allowed the results of the election.
 
LMP737
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:06 pm

Dreadnought wrote:

We have DNC operatives on camera admitting that they organize voter fraud and use intimidation and baiting tactics against their opponents. The voter fraud part has been going on, by their own admission, for half a century (and we know the LBJ administration was famous for it.) So yes, we have every reason to be skeptical of the election results.

Put the shoe on the other foot. If the GOP had a long history of voter fraud and GOP operatives were caught on camera talking about how they do it, would you simply accept it without challenge?


If the Democrats are involved in large scale voter fraud then they are doing a terrible job at it. The GOP controls the house, the senate, the majority of governor ships and state legislatures. So if anyone is involved in large scale voter fraud it's the republicans.

Here's what's really going on. The GOP for their own selfish have deiced to make a non-issue an issue. Their mouth pieces over at Fox News and talk radio dutifully "report" on it and people like you buy it hook line and sinker.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:33 pm

I don't think Trump will have time to contest much of anything what with his fraud and rape trials kicking into gear. Who knows maybe a fifth bankruptcy is in the offing since his brand has become toxic...
LMP737 wrote:
Do not compare what is happening now to what happened in 2000. It is intellectually dishonest.

That's Dreadnought's and the Trump campaign's entire M.O.. the quickest way to make either disappear is to ask for evidence.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:21 pm

LMP737 wrote:
Here's what's really going on. The GOP for their own selfish have deiced to make a non-issue an issue. Their mouth pieces over at Fox News and talk radio dutifully "report" on it and people like you buy it hook line and sinker.

The funny thing is that the GOP has been stoking the "voter fraud" fire for decades as a ruse to disenfranchise very specific groups. So the instant the Trump campaign and Giuliani started yelping about voter fraud in inner cities in Philadelphia and Chicago (HRMMmmm, who could they be referring to??), it laid bare the GOP strategy of disenfranchising voters all along--they're probably most upset that he didn't use more subtle language, instead of calling on "suburbanites" to monitor "inner cities", to push their commitment to limiting the voting rights of the latter.
Last edited by MaverickM11 on Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:27 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
The funny thing is that the GOP has been stoking the "voter fraud" fire for decades as a ruse to disenfranchise very specific groups. So the instant the Trump campaign and Giuliani started yelping about voter fraud in inner cities in Philadelphia and Chicago (HRMMmmm, who could they be referring to??), it laid bare the GOP strategy of disenfranchising voters all along.


Not only that but I believe that most of the 31 cases of verified fraud were committed by people voting Republican. I'm not blaming the GOP or the Right in general for these isolated incidents, but it really shows that the narrative is not one of massive liberal fraud.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:55 pm

DocLightning wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
The funny thing is that the GOP has been stoking the "voter fraud" fire for decades as a ruse to disenfranchise very specific groups. So the instant the Trump campaign and Giuliani started yelping about voter fraud in inner cities in Philadelphia and Chicago (HRMMmmm, who could they be referring to??), it laid bare the GOP strategy of disenfranchising voters all along.


Not only that but I believe that most of the 31 cases of verified fraud were committed by people voting Republican. I'm not blaming the GOP or the Right in general for these isolated incidents, but it really shows that the narrative is not one of massive liberal fraud.

The cost/benefit analysis of "rigging" a national election is comically prohibitive. Hence why it's easier to bankroll candidates, or in Trump's case, pay off attorneys general (hey Pam Bondi and Greg Abbott!)
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:26 pm

LMP737 wrote:
If the Democrats are involved in large scale voter fraud then they are doing a terrible job at it. The GOP controls the house, the senate, the majority of governor ships and state legislatures. So if anyone is involved in large scale voter fraud it's the republicans.

This is all you need to know about voter fraud. If Democrats are doing it, then they're doing a really bad job at it. Not saying that Republicans are doing it either, but you'd think that for a party that has been winning big since 2010 (except for the presidential level), Democrats would control more governorships and state houses and other positions.
 
ltbewr
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:48 pm

If you end up with either candidate tying or within 1 state of the Electoral college vote, you would see both parties go totally nuclear. They wouldn't concede. There would be many millions spent, armies of attorneys in all disputed states filing numerous lawsuits, a battle to the US Supreme Court that would make 2000 look like a minor disagreement. Probably another 'chad' or ballot design problem. It would likely disrupt the economy, the stock market, possible blood shedding violence by both sides, some of our enemies taking advantage of the situation.
 
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PacificBeach88
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:57 pm

ltbewr wrote:
If you end up with either candidate tying or within 1 state of the Electoral college vote, you would see both parties go totally nuclear. They wouldn't concede. There would be many millions spent, armies of attorneys in all disputed states filing numerous lawsuits, a battle to the US Supreme Court that would make 2000 look like a minor disagreement. Probably another 'chad' or ballot design problem. It would likely disrupt the economy, the stock market, possible blood shedding violence by both sides, some of our enemies taking advantage of the situation.


Don't forget Republicans made sure there would only be a 4 - 4 court, just to add to the chaos.

But as Republican Steve Schmidt has said, given the internal polling, HRC is going to end up with around a 400 electoral blowout.
 
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Aesma
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:06 pm

McCain and Romney conceded their defeat against Obama, but you may have noticed that many US citizens didn't accept the results anyway. Trump has their support, the same Trump who was part of the conspiracies against Obama, no surprise there, but will these supporters really act differently than the last times if Trump doesn't concede ? Lots of moaning, internet rants and the like, but no action.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:35 pm

PacificBeach88 wrote:

But as Republican Steve Schmidt has said, given the internal polling, HRC is going to end up with around a 400 electoral blowout.


I would be surprised if she hit 400. I predict a solid 8-9% split in the popular vote and around 350-360 EVs, but not a 400 blowout. There is too much polarization.
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:41 pm

Either way, I can imagine that several bird sanctuaries will be occupied... or worse, game reserves. If Trump wins, people will demand changes he can't deliver soon enough. If Trump loses, well... that won't comfort his supporters.



David
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:00 pm

Let's ask Vladimir Putin what to do with a leader of the opposition who won't step into line....

In Aztec Mesoamerica it was customary to cut out a still beating heart as an offering (for the greater good of the population health/harvest etc,) then behead them and push them down the steps of the temple at Tenochtitlan. Maybe start with that at the Inauguration using the steps of Capital Hill??

In all seriousness, This guy would deny he conceded to his supporters, even if CNN filmed and audio recorded the event live. I can't see it will make any difference whatsoever. If Trump supporters do decide to kick off with their guns and racism they will end up dead at the hands of Police, National Guards and Army. For that I don't even think Trump is that stupid.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:02 pm

seb146 wrote:
jpetekyxmd80 wrote:
Dreadnought used to have an opinion worth listening to once in awhile. Now hes just sad.


As much as I disagreed with him for a very long time, I had respect for him. In the past six months or so, he has just gone off the deep end. He used to make me think and research and read. Now, it is just sad.

The optimist in me keeps hoping his account was hacked. But, the pessimist in me thinks he just snapped.



It's getting harder and harder for me to consider even engaging with you, and those like you.

Why?

Because you don't engage in honest, substantive debate. You mock. You ridicule. You call names.

That's not how you get people to see your point of view; that's just a surefire way to make them dig in and dislike you.

This mean-spirited conduct from those who lean left is becoming more and more appalling.
 
jpetekyxmd80
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:28 pm

You call people out for "mean-spirited conduct" and being "appalling".

And you're a Donald Trump supporter. As i told you before.. any credibility or moral high ground you like to claim... is gone. Seriously?

Like I care if you like me. You all can just piss off in a few weeks .
 
Hillis
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:49 pm

Dreadnought wrote:
Hillis wrote:
Simple question. But it can get a lot more complicated than just that.

What if he's extremely defiant about it, and he does what he does best, which is egg on his supporters not to accept the outcome, even if Hillary Clinton wins in a landslide?
How far would Trump and his supporters take their defiance?

This is a scenario you discuss when talking about somwhere in Africa, or Central America, not in the United States. And it would be easy to dismiss Trump's bluster if not for the fact he's blustered his way this far, and this close to the presidency of the United States.

I'd like to think that this couldn't happen in this nation, but we have a large group of people supporting Donald Trump, who is the most unqualified candidate ever to run for the office, as their nominee, and they've shown they don't care what he says or does, they'll just keep following him. If he tells them to oppose the results, they'll do it.


You have a short memory. Al Gore did exactly that in 2000, and Democrats had no problem with it.

We have DNC operatives on camera admitting that they organize voter fraud and use intimidation and baiting tactics against their opponents. The voter fraud part has been going on, by their own admission, for half a century (and we know the LBJ administration was famous for it.) So yes, we have every reason to be skeptical of the election results.

Put the shoe on the other foot. If the GOP had a long history of voter fraud and GOP operatives were caught on camera talking about how they do it, would you simply accept it without challenge?


Actually, Gore didn't, Dreadnought. The closeness of the count in Florida triggered an AUTOMATIC recount of the vote, which, by the way, the right-leaning United States Supreme Court cut short.

On election night, Gore had conceeded to Bush, but it's been established that even Jeb Bush said that it was being called too early, and he was right. After the media called Bush the winner, the race got so tight that Gore did the right thing, and "un-conceded" because of how close it had gotten.

All 5 networks then "un-called" Florida because it had gotten so close. And the margin at the time was less than 1/10 of 1%, and that's why an automatic recount was started in Florida. Gore didn't initiate it, the State of Florida, run by Republicans did.

The voting was aborted when the right-leaning SCOTUS issued a stay stopping the vote, basically declaring George W. the winner. Officially, Bush won the election by a total of 537 votes, but to this day, there are those that believe that Katherine Harris, the Florida SecState had some votes hidden from view.

Gore did not say two weeks out he wouldn't concede, or not to accept the results. He looked at what was happening on election night and saw that he indeed had a chance to win, and did the right thing, and even if he hadn't had "un-conceded" the automatic recount was going to take place.

What Trump is doing is saying he won't accept ANY outcome that shows him losing, whether he loses by 1% or 10%. He's set this up to say no matter what it is "rigged", and he won't accept it. That's not the same thing.

What people don't remember, however, that what happened in Florida would have been a moot point had Al Gore not taken his home state of Tennessee for granted. Had he won those 11 electors, he had won the election. On that score, he has only himself to blame. But that didn't happen, and the Florida Circus, and the USSC usurping a recount changed history.

Again, you simply repeat what others tell you, Chuck. You need to start thinking for yourself. I think you know that what you said is B.S., but that doesn't seem to matter to conservatives in 2016.

\
DocLightning wrote:
PacificBeach88 wrote:

But as Republican Steve Schmidt has said, given the internal polling, HRC is going to end up with around a 400 electoral blowout.


I would be surprised if she hit 400. I predict a solid 8-9% split in the popular vote and around 350-360 EVs, but not a 400 blowout. There is too much polarization.


I agree with you. But the wild card is there's so many normally "predictable" and reliably red states that never got polled, or not polled often because, well, they're usually predictable, that have shown polls being damn close. Texas is tight; Clinton is winning Arizona. Georgia and Utah are basically toss-ups. Polls have shown Alaska, Mississippi and South Carolina to be extremely tight. And a poll done earlier this week shows a statistical tie in Kentucky. Obviously, most or none of these states are in play if Trump isn't the nominee.

But with so little polling in those states we really don't know what is going on. Trump may well win most of those states by double-digits, but it's equally plausible right now that Hillary could swing a few her way. And if she found a way to take Texas, she gets over 400 electors.

Jan Brewer may have finished Trump off with her stupid remarks the other day about Hispanics. What do they say in sports? "Don't give the other team Bulletin-Board material before the game"? Brewer might have just done that in a state already leaning to Clinton.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/ ... /92531554/
 
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seb146
Posts: 24070
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:14 am

EA CO AS wrote:
seb146 wrote:
jpetekyxmd80 wrote:
Dreadnought used to have an opinion worth listening to once in awhile. Now hes just sad.


As much as I disagreed with him for a very long time, I had respect for him. In the past six months or so, he has just gone off the deep end. He used to make me think and research and read. Now, it is just sad.

The optimist in me keeps hoping his account was hacked. But, the pessimist in me thinks he just snapped.



It's getting harder and harder for me to consider even engaging with you, and those like you.

Why?

Because you don't engage in honest, substantive debate. You mock. You ridicule. You call names.

That's not how you get people to see your point of view; that's just a surefire way to make them dig in and dislike you.

This mean-spirited conduct from those who lean left is becoming more and more appalling.


It is not my fault you all get upset seeing links to anything other than Fox or Breitbart or people not coming around to your way of thinking by insulting anyone who disagrees with you all. Nearly every post made by a predictable group of right wingers starts off with an insult toward Democrats. Things like "if you liberals would just...." or "that site is biased!" or something similar.

Fact checking and posting alternate opinions is not what "liberals" point out. It is these opinions that are posted as facts and this constant victim mentality the right has had for at least two decades. Blaming everyone else and crying foul when things don't go your way. It happens. Get over it.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:20 am

EA CO AS wrote:
This mean-spirited conduct from those who lean left is becoming more and more appalling.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah y'all nominate a pathological liar man child sociopath and expect respect, without ever deigning to earn it. Suck it up, babe. Because Trump will be associated with the spineless GOP and bible thumpers for a long, LONG time, in a suffocating, crushing embrace--it's stank that won't wash away any time soon. Sad!
 
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einsteinboricua
Posts: 8716
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:21 am

PacificBeach88 wrote:
Don't forget Republicans made sure there would only be a 4 - 4 court, just to add to the chaos.

If they tie and Republicans hold the House, then Trump is elected (although I'm willing to believe that some Republicans will prefer Clinton over Trump). If Democrats take the Senate, Kaine will probably become VP; otherwise, Pence moves in. The SCOTUS has no say in how a president is elected. The 2000 was a rare instance since the SCOTUS at the time received a plea from the Bush camp to stop the recount "because to undertake a state-wide recount would not allow FL's electors to vote in time for the EC vote", but as soon as the SCOTUS ruled, it allowed the implications to ripple out.

The only way the now tied SCOTUS would act on the election is if there's a repeat of 2000 with many states razor-thin close and whose EC votes would make/break the overall victor.

PacificBeach88 wrote:
But as Republican Steve Schmidt has said, given the internal polling, HRC is going to end up with around a 400 electoral blowout.

Doubt it. At most she could match Obama's 2008 victory of 365 votes. With all the current blue states (throwing in NE-1, IA, OH, and AZ which lean red at the moment) she'd get 359 votes. Let's assume she snatches UT...365 votes (tied with Obama), and let's say that Texas truly is close enough for her to win and edges out a very thin victory: 403 votes.

Any path over 400 includes Texas and right now I think it's gonna be close but not a Clinton victory in the state. Look for a victory within the 320-350 margin. Of course, 2014 taught us that polls don't always reflect a clear picture so for all we know some places could be tighter (blue or red).
Last edited by einsteinboricua on Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15887
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Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:22 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!


As you have nothing substantive to add to the discussion, I'd prefer you not say anything.
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 4330
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:34 am

That's rich coming from someone who has said exactly nothing of any relevance to the topic of this thread.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:44 am

EA CO AS wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!


As you have nothing substantive to add to the discussion, I'd prefer you not say anything.

Why? Trump loves a winner! Not like some lame arse loser like Jesus who got caught! :lol: Can you even give us one substantive thing about True Chri$tian Trump? Just one? Bet you can't. The GOP found their dream candidate.
Last edited by MaverickM11 on Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Hillis
Topic Author
Posts: 1307
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:19 pm

Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:46 am

In a normal campaign, with a normal candidate, I wouldn't even be remotely worried about anything like this. But there's nothing "normal" about the guy who is losing this race. He's emotionally unstable. He's a narcissist. He really has no morals. And, as he's been his whole life, he's only out for himself. And he has tapped into the rage of mostly older, under-educated, rural white voters in a what that Hitler would have approved of, and he has these people so angry they may not give up the ghost.

I do worry there will be violence. I really do. I hope to hell I'm wrong.
 
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777Jet
Posts: 6987
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:29 am

Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:48 am

seb146 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
seb146 wrote:

As much as I disagreed with him for a very long time, I had respect for him. In the past six months or so, he has just gone off the deep end. He used to make me think and research and read. Now, it is just sad.

The optimist in me keeps hoping his account was hacked. But, the pessimist in me thinks he just snapped.



It's getting harder and harder for me to consider even engaging with you, and those like you.

Why?

Because you don't engage in honest, substantive debate. You mock. You ridicule. You call names.

That's not how you get people to see your point of view; that's just a surefire way to make them dig in and dislike you.

This mean-spirited conduct from those who lean left is becoming more and more appalling.


It is not my fault you all get upset seeing links to anything other than Fox or Breitbart or people not coming around to your way of thinking by insulting anyone who disagrees with you all. Nearly every post made by a predictable group of right wingers starts off with an insult toward Democrats.


It is also not our fault when your type get upset seeing links to anything other than the Clinton News Network. It is your type that have created and mastered the tactic of insulting anybody who disagrees with you, or who does not come around to your way of thinking, or your demands, so it is very ironic that you give those on the right credit for that leftist tactic. And yet again, another opposite of what you just said is true. "Nearly every post made by a predictable group of" lefties "starts off with an insult toward" those opposite. If you can't take it back then don't dish it out. Your hypocrisy comes as no surprise.

jpetekyxmd80 wrote:

And you're a Donald Trump supporter. As i told you before.. any credibility or moral high ground you like to claim... is gone. Seriously?


As if Hillary supporters have any credibility or moral high ground after supporting somebody:

1) Who during the middle of an election campaign called tens of millions of Americans Deplorable and Irredeemable. Her apology for using the word 'half' was classic 'above everybody else' Hillary.

2) Who shows no respect for the law and the authorities by deleting the preserved e-mails after knowing that they were subpoenaed, and for lying to congress. All she can come up with is am "I'm sorry". Hillary even admits she has her own Hillary standard and one that applies to everybody else. She sure does, she can get away with doing things that others would be locked away for. Lock her up.

“When they go low, we go high.” - Oh the irony in her saying that... You can't go much lower than her...

She says Trump is so horrible because he will be the first presidential candidate to not concede defeat if he loses. She says that despite being possibly the first presidential candidate to lie to congress and show contempt towards the law and authorities during the e-mail scandal. Has any other presidential candidate called tens of millions in the electorate Deplorable and Irredeemable? I don't think so.

You say this e-mail scandal is old news, yet you rely on a soundbite from Trump that is over a decade old. LOL

You Hillary supporters have Zero moral high ground to stand on. Zero. Trump is correct when he says that she is as crooked as they come.

jpetekyxmd80 wrote:
You all can just piss off in a few weeks .


You can do that right now.
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 4330
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:53 am

777Jet wrote:

1) Who during the middle of an election campaign called tens of millions of Americans Deplorable and Irredeemable.


Must you try so hard to prove that every day?


You are deplorable.
 
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777Jet
Posts: 6987
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:29 am

Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:56 am

jpetekyxmd80 wrote:
777Jet wrote:

1) Who during the middle of an election campaign called tens of millions of Americans Deplorable and Irredeemable.


Must you try so hard to prove that every day?


You are deplorable.


You just made my point about the name calling.

Thank you.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:58 am

777Jet wrote:
1) Who during the middle of an election campaign called tens of millions of Americans Deplorable and Irredeemable. Her apology for using the word 'half' was classic 'above everybody else' Hillary.


You're right. That was incorrect. It was more like 90%. Guess which basket you're in!

777Jet wrote:
2) Who shows no respect for the law and the authorities by deleting the preserved e-mails after knowing that they were subpoenaed, and for lying to congress. All she can come up with is am "I'm sorry". Hillary even admits she has her own Hillary standard and one that applies to everybody else. She sure does, she can get away with doing things that others would be locked away for. Lock her up.

You mean like Trump @rse kisser Chris Christie? Who will likely end up locked up. #Blessed! So glad he finally found that cell phone that he "lost".
 
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777Jet
Posts: 6987
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:29 am

Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:59 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
777Jet wrote:
1) Who during the middle of an election campaign called tens of millions of Americans Deplorable and Irredeemable. Her apology for using the word 'half' was classic 'above everybody else' Hillary.


You're right. That was incorrect. It was more like 90%. Guess which basket you're in!


Proudly not the same one you are in.
 
Hillis
Topic Author
Posts: 1307
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:19 pm

Re: So.....What If Trump Refused To Concede?

Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:00 am

jpetekyxmd80 wrote:
777Jet wrote:

1) Who during the middle of an election campaign called tens of millions of Americans Deplorable and Irredeemable.


Must you try so hard to prove that every day?


You are deplorable.


Problem is, many of his supporters ARE deplorable. You have the KKK types, like David Duke, and other white supremacist groups who loudly support him. You have people wearing shirts to his rally that call Clinton a c**t, a word that is despicable. You have supporters calling for Hillary's arrest and even her assassination. You have had numerous instances of Trump supporters assaulting protesters at his rallies.

It is deplorable that his supporters have continued the dumbing-down of America by supporting a man so uniquely unqualified for the high office of President of The United States, and not only shrugging off his vindictiveness, ignorance and vulgarity, but trying to pass off what he respresents as desirable for that office. The lack of common sense among his campaign and his followers has been a black eye that will take the U.S. a long time to get over, even though it looks like Trump will lose badly.

It's really quite nauseating.

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