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Hillis
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President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 8:46 am

Well, there's no doubt this was an absolutely historical and unprecedented night in American political history. I may not like the guy, but congratulations are in order for our President-Elect. If anything, he's certainly is resiliant, and he's been counted out too many times. I hope he will suprise us yet again and chart a decent path for this nation. i tend to doubt that, but he needs to be given the chance.

The next 3 months may be the most crucial in the history of the U.S. since Lincoln was President-Elect and we were on the verge of civil war. We are, quite frankly, going from a very inclusive adminstration to a soon-to-be administration that has had a penchant for trying to exclude many Americans. How President-Elect Trump handles the transiton, and the tone he sets will be very important.

What are some short and long term prospects for the transition and for the beginning of Trump's presidency?

-The world's financial markets are in a panic, and I don't think that's going to go away for a while. President-Elect Trump and President Obama need to find a way to reassure the world's markets in the interim.

-Mexico is in deep trouble with this event. They're already working to shore up the Peso so it doesn't totally collapse. There's even talk in Mexico City about scrapping all treaties with the United States with this outcome.

-NATO is going to be very uneasy, as will Ukraine and the Baltic States. President-Elect Trump needs to move to reassure our allies, and our enemies, that the U.S. will still fulfill its NATO obiligations and to our allies abroad.


How about after Trump takes office?

-There's no doubt that Obamacare is in trouble, as is Dodd-Frank.

-The newly-minted renewal of ties with Cuba are in jeopardy now.

-The Iran nuclear treaty is in jeopardy, and that could greatly lead to an escalation of tensions in the region.

-Russia will become more aggressive, as they believe that they have a U.S. president-elect who will acceed to their desires.


Some of my fears?

-I expect a spike in attacks on Muslim-Americans, African-Americans and Hispanics/Latino's from hard-core Trump supporters. The white supremacist groups in the U.S feel they now have legitimacy and will feel more emboldened and more justified in attacks on minorities.

-LGBTQ marriage rights are now threatened, as there's no doubt the GOP will try to push through an anti-abortion, anti-LGBT lunatic into the Supreme Court.

-Education will go even further down on the list of important matters as the right clearly does not believe in education.

-The gap between rich and poor will explode even further.

-The rest of the world will now see the U.S. as, quite literally, a rogue nation and one that should be feared instead of respected.


I think CNN's Van Jones said it best when he said this election was a "White-Lash", and he's correct. We're seeing the last stand of white America, who still doesn't want to share any power with those they think are inferior, and that in large part led to Trump's success. In 2020, the percentage of white voters among the voting populace will be down approximately another 4%, and it'll keep shrinking, and this was White America saying they won't quit without a fight. In four years, they may not be able to pull off such a feat, but they've shown that they don't want to share anything with other groups in the U.S.

The Democrats had their asses handed to them. But in defeat, there's always opportunity, and they have to find a way to mobilize and convince minority voters and college-age students to get out and vote in every election, and do so consistently. Long-term demographics still favor Democrats, and they need to find a way to harness that.

Sorry if I rambled, but this is too big to simply put down in a few lines. The next few months and beyond will be fascinating to watch.
 
A332DTW
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 8:53 am

The initial shock needs to wear off. The meeting between President Obama and Trump will be interesting to watch. President Obama will play a huge role in calming tensions, that will rise across the country in the coming months. As far as congratulatory offers, I offer none.
 
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sebolino
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 8:54 am

Now what ?
Awakening in reality.

A guy who cares only about his money, who insults women and foreigners, with zero experience in politics and diplomacy, with approximative knowledge in geopolitics has been elected.
It's unbelievable but it's a fact. And this guy will have the nuclear codes ...
 
kaitak
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:01 am

I agree with pretty much everything Hillis says; I think this is going to mean pretty much a complete reversal of almost everything Obama achieved over the last few years. I just cannot believe that I am even contemplating this, because to be honest, for the reasons Sebolino mentions above, I never really considered the possibility that this might happen.

Will he really set out to throw billions down the toilet by building a wall across the border; will he appoint a special prosecutor to investigate HRC (again)? Hopefully between now and January, we will see more real meat on his legislative program.
 
A332DTW
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:04 am

Protests under way in Oakland, CA
 
Hillis
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:08 am

kaitak wrote:
I agree with pretty much everything Hillis says; I think this is going to mean pretty much a complete reversal of almost everything Obama achieved over the last few years. I just cannot believe that I am even contemplating this, because to be honest, for the reasons Sebolino mentions above, I never really considered the possibility that this might happen.

Will he really set out to throw billions down the toilet by building a wall across the border; will he appoint a special prosecutor to investigate HRC (again)? Hopefully between now and January, we will see more real meat on his legislative program.


A wall won't happen, because even most Republicans in Congress are against it. He'll also find that deporting 11 million illegal immigrants will be physically and economically impossible. Despite the win tonight, there's a lot of Republicans in Congress on edge because, quite frankly, no one knows how Trump will govern.

One problem I see is that Trump can't just back down on his pledge to deport/spy on Muslims, or build a wall, or forcibly deport 11 million people. That's why so many-mostly whites-voted for him. They WANT those things to happen. If he would suddenly say he's not going to do that, he's already lost any chance for re-election. He has to follow through with those ideas. And that's where he'll run into problems, most especially with the Senate.
 
ltbewr
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:30 pm

I suspect that Democrats will become even more obstructionist as to Trump than the Republicans were to Obama. Stonewall and obstruct every appointment approval. Fight over every little thing. HRC and other leading Democrats likely facing several more witch hunts and committee investigations. Try and go after Trump on his business interests, make sure ongoing lawsuits (like as to Trump U) continue and distract him. Maybe go along with some trade deal adjustments. Nothing will happen to Wall Street, there will be a lot of self-deportaion and Blacks will face even more repression. It is going to be a very ugly 4 years.
 
Pyrex
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:49 pm

Well, I can tell you what won't happen - no nuclear war will occur in the next 4 years, despite the doubter's best attempts at painting a calamity.
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BestWestern
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:51 pm

'Congratulations' to the silent majority of American racists, bigots and birthers. This is a bad day for Non WASP males.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
na
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:54 pm

Berlusconi XXXL.

Welcome to the age of idiots.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:00 pm

Time to go commit suicide. I can't live in a world that is so contradictory to my values...
 
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casinterest
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:12 pm

Trump definitely won the Electoral vote by aiming at the Rust Belt and other middle class workers affected by globalization. It comes with a dose of overt bigotry,xenophobia,and misogyny, and racism. How much he can walk back that dose is going to dictate how he is perceived going forward.

Currently Trump is still losing the popular vote to Clinton, and I expect that to continue as the absentee and provisional ballots are counted. He did not win more than 48% of the vote of Americans, but he won the part that counted.

Going forward, the GOP now will have to legislate and govern to the center, or the backlash will be severe. The folks in the "Rust Belt" that voted for him, did it for the economic promises that he put forth. I don't know if it is really possible to bring back blue collar jobs to these regions, but it will remain to be seen what happens. White collar jobs, and service level jobs is where the economy was going from the time of Reagan on.

The Affordable Care Act(Obamacare) is probably done for, but the GOP has to have a plan in place to formally handle the questions of how to lower costs for healthcare. Healthcare was going up before the ACA, and I don't think that a repeal will fix the issues with the Pharmaceutical and Insurance company monopolies on services.

As for the Supreme Court and Social issues, I do not think Trump won on these issues, and I think the GOP would be seriously mistaken to follow through on wild legislation and activism in this area. Here in North Carolina, it appears that HB2 cost McCrory the Governor's mansion, among other items even while delivering Trump a commanding victory.

Immigration and the Wall, are going to become afterthoughts in my opinion. I think deportations will continue, but no real change will occur, as the demographic shifts already dictate that the GOP treads lightly here.

I hope Donald's victory speech holds true and he is a President for all of us, but there are a lot of wounds still left to close.


The Democrats need to regroup and rethink their strategies. Running Clinton seemed like a foregone conclusion that was thrust on everyone because it was "Her Time", and I think had they run Joe Biden, we would be looking at a different result today.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
nitepilot79
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:17 pm

"Abadia, abadia, abadia, that's all folks" as the Looney Toons saying goes. We're done for.
 
BMI727
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:22 pm

I'll have more thoughts later, but suffice to say I'm not happy about a President Trump although waking up to a bunch of crestfallen leftists is something of a silver lining.

casinterest wrote:
The Democrats need to regroup and rethink their strategies.

I agree. It's time for Democrats to straighten up and fly right since Trump beat them at their own game. Let Obama fade away into a dignified retirement, disown the lunacy of Warren and Sanders and then swing back to being the party of Bill Clinton.

casinterest wrote:
Running Clinton seemed like a foregone conclusion that was thrust on everyone because it was "Her Time"

On the bright side, the first woman president will be someone people can be proud of.

casinterest wrote:
I think had they run Joe Biden, we would be looking at a different result today.

If Joe Biden were on the ballot I most likely would have voted for him.
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Klaus
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:34 pm

casinterest wrote:
Trump definitely won the Electoral vote


No, he did not. Clinton has actually won the electoral vote, apparently:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/features/20 ... n-results/
(Posted at 97.43% reporting: Clinton 47.64%, Trump only 47.53%)
 
coolian2
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:35 pm

Well, congratulations to those who wanted him to win.

Crow tastes like shit.
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sebolino
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:35 pm

BestWestern wrote:
'Congratulations' to the silent majority of American racists, bigots and birthers. This is a bad day for Non WASP males.


Well, I believe it's a bad day even for the WASP males, but perhaps some of them still don't realize what they've done.
 
coolian2
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:36 pm

BMI727 wrote:
I'll have more thoughts later, but suffice to say I'm not happy about a President Trump although waking up to a bunch of crestfallen leftists is something of a silver lining.

If Joe Biden were on the ballot I most likely would have voted for him.


The hell?
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casinterest
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:52 pm

Klaus wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Trump definitely won the Electoral vote


No, he did not. Clinton has actually won the electoral vote, apparently:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/features/20 ... n-results/
(Posted at 97.43% reporting: Clinton 47.64%, Trump only 47.53%)


Klaus,
That is the popular vote.
The electoral vote in the US is the number of Electors picked from each state to represent your vote for president. This is how US presidents get elected.

He is wining that by 289-218 right now, with 270 being the magic number. This is akin to what happened in 2000 with Bush vs Gore.

http://www.cnn.com/election/results/president
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
coolian2
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:00 pm

The only good thing out of 2016 is that the right can't win Auckland anymore.
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777Jet
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:15 pm

Sucked in to all the gullible, loud, arrogant, know-it-all, kool-aid drinkers who said that Trump had no chance, that Hillary would take 400 EC votes, that we must get used to "Madam President", blah, blah, blah... And to the extra loud ones who said they hoped we would suffer and feel the pain when Madam President easily wins, well I hope y'all suffer and feel the pain now! You lost. Your ideas lost. Enjoy the next 4 years. :)
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coolian2
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:25 pm

777Jet wrote:
Sucked in to all the gullible, loud, arrogant, know-it-all, kool-aid drinkers who said that Trump had no chance, that Hillary would take 400 EC votes, that we must get used to "Madam President", blah, blah, blah... And to the extra loud ones who said they hoped we would suffer and feel the pain when Madam President easily wins, well I hope y'all suffer and feel the pain now! You lost. Your ideas lost. Enjoy the next 4 years. :)


Not a fan of dignity, are you?
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cjg225
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:26 pm

Well, we get to see if Obama can somehow force through TPP before he leaves office. That probably won't happen.

Anything candidates say or do during races tend to be said or done simply to get elected; they have no real connection to what is actually said or done once someone enters office. My hope is that Trump quietly seeks approval of TPP after he is in office for a bit, but I think Congress will reject it whether he wants it approved or rejected. A rejection of TPP will be the biggest harm to the US economy of anything the next President could have done.

Clinton denounced TPP as a candidate, but had helped write it as SecState. I think she would've asked for Congressional approval of it after a while.
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coolian2
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:28 pm

I'm quite happy to avoid the TPP.

That's one of the very few things that might be okay out of this.
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cjg225
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:41 pm

coolian2 wrote:
I'm quite happy to avoid the TPP.

That's one of the very few things that might be okay out of this.

Approval of TPP would be one of the best things that could happen to the American economy and the American job market, so......
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einsteinboricua
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:57 pm

I gotta hand it to Trump. He's the true definition of an underdog going against all odds. Congrats to the president elect. I just hope all the fear we've had about him does not come to pass.

ltbewr wrote:
I suspect that Democrats will become even more obstructionist as to Trump than the Republicans were to Obama. Stonewall and obstruct every appointment approval.

How so? Republicans will control both branches of Congress and knowing them they'll do away with the filibuster in the Senate. Let's talk in 2019 after the midterm election. If Republicans end up messing up because they went along with Trump, Democrats are sure to win back some seats.

Let's look at the bright sides:
-Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz are no longer contenders for 2020 or beyond (the very guy they tried to defeat brought them unified government)
-SNL Skits galore
-Holding the GOP accountable by all measures (will repeal and replace work? will the wall be built? will deficit hawks still be concerned about the debt?)
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seahawk
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:11 pm

Imhi the big point is, the part of the population he targeted voted, the part of the population who should have avoided him and should have voted Hillary did not vote.
 
nitepilot79
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:25 pm

[quote="BMI727"]I'll have more thoughts later, but suffice to say I'm not happy about a President Trump although waking up to a bunch of crestfallen leftists is something of a silver lining.

Nothing starts the day like a good ol' sneer. Here we go...
Last edited by nitepilot79 on Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
PanHAM
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:31 pm

cjg225 wrote:
coolian2 wrote:
I'm quite happy to avoid the TPP.

That's one of the very few things that might be okay out of this.

Approval of TPP would be one of the best things that could happen to the American economy and the American job market, so......


So ould be TTIP but unfortunately both are blocked by people who have just a very limited and theoretical and ideological view of international trade, in fact, most of them don't even know how it works. Indeed, if Trump wants to create Jobs he must put TTIP and TPP high on the Agenda.
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Dutchy
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:37 pm

PanHAM wrote:
cjg225 wrote:
coolian2 wrote:
I'm quite happy to avoid the TPP.

That's one of the very few things that might be okay out of this.

Approval of TPP would be one of the best things that could happen to the American economy and the American job market, so......


So ould be TTIP but unfortunately both are blocked by people who have just a very limited and theoretical and ideological view of international trade, in fact, most of them don't even know how it works. Indeed, if Trump wants to create Jobs he must put TTIP and TPP high on the Agenda.



TTIP wont bring many new jobs to the US or EU, there a not too many barriers right now. If some for of ISDS is included, then I am against it.
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Veetwo
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:44 pm

Hey where is everybody? This result is hilarious! The self-righteousness of most people on here has made this victory, however tasteless, so sweet. I didn't vote for Trump but I kind of wanted him to win just so I could watch the left squirm.

This is going to be so good.
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bmacleod
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:48 pm

I'm hoping POTUS Trump will be a lot different than Trump the campaigner.

Much of his agenda is likely to be shackled by Congress. He will have to make sacrifices to make deals.

Economic ties with Canada will hopefully stay strong despite a few changes.

Congrats to Hillary for winning the popular vote!! (so far).
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DfwRevolution
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:20 pm

casinterest wrote:
Trump definitely won the Electoral vote by aiming at the Rust Belt and other middle class workers affected by globalization. It comes with a dose of overt bigotry,xenophobia,and misogyny, and racism. How much he can walk back that dose is going to dictate how he is perceived going forward.


Trump won by flipping OH, MI, WI, PA, and FL, which were states that twice voted for President Obama. I find it amusing how these same people are suddenly bigoted, xenophobic, misogynist, and racist when they are no longer reliable blue states. This election will be studied endlessly, but we already know the Venn diagram between Trump voters and Obama voters has some surprising overlap.

casinterest wrote:
The Democrats need to regroup and rethink their strategies. Running Clinton seemed like a foregone conclusion that was thrust on everyone because it was "Her Time", and I think had they run Joe Biden, we would be looking at a different result today.


Indeed. The GOP has been portrayed as a party in crisis for roughly a decade, but this fails to appreciate the Republican long game. Republicans have basically taken over state politics in 35 out of 50 states. Republicans have steadily rebuilt their Congressional ranks with young Senators and Reps, although this cycle was a small step backwards. This was not achieved in a single wave, but over the course of 4-5 election cycles.

My own take is that Democrats overplayed their hand back in 2008-2010. I think Democrats were shielded from their missteps by two strengths: 1.) the singular personality and campaigning talents of Barack Obama, and 2.) the rapidly shifting attitudes of the American public to LGBT rights. Well, Obama is now term limited and LGBT rights are mainstream. Otherwise, the shift of the United States from a center-right to a center-left nation just hasn't happened.

Meanwhile, the Democratic party has gone from center-left to solid-left. The Democratic party is totally out-of-touch with mainstream America on environment, energy, and anti-terrorism. Democrats have also staked a risky position on economic and tax policy. As soon as the U.S. hits even normal growth, the redistribution politics of Warren and Sanders loses all appeal. Until a new leader re-emerges from the Reagan Democrat / blue dog Democrat camp, I don't predict great things for Democrats.
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einsteinboricua
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:40 pm

bmacleod wrote:
Congrats to Hillary for winning the popular vote!! (so far).

Image
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PhilBy
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:54 pm

Perhaps after this we will see some reform and the US of A will institute democracy!
 
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seb146
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:57 pm

All those poor, oppressed Christians and whites will finally get to enjoy some equality after all these years. And Obamacare will be replaced with
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:57 pm

PhilBy wrote:
Perhaps after this we will see some reform and the US of A will institute democracy!


Not in the interest of the Republicans.
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casinterest
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:57 pm

DfwRevolution wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Trump definitely won the Electoral vote by aiming at the Rust Belt and other middle class workers affected by globalization. It comes with a dose of overt bigotry,xenophobia,and misogyny, and racism. How much he can walk back that dose is going to dictate how he is perceived going forward.


I find it amusing how these same people are suddenly bigoted, xenophobic, misogynist, and racist when they are no longer reliable blue states.

Not what I said. I called Trump that. Not the people of those states. And Trump has run his candidacy with those core principles.
DfwRevolution wrote:
casinterest wrote:
The Democrats need to regroup and rethink their strategies. Running Clinton seemed like a foregone conclusion that was thrust on everyone because it was "Her Time", and I think had they run Joe Biden, we would be looking at a different result today.


Indeed. The GOP has been portrayed as a party in crisis for roughly a decade, but this fails to appreciate the Republican long game. Republicans have basically taken over state politics in 35 out of 50 states. Republicans have steadily rebuilt their Congressional ranks with young Senators and Reps, although this cycle was a small step backwards. This was not achieved in a single wave, but over the course of 4-5 election cycles.

The GOP lost Senate and house seats this cycle, and they lost seats in many states. This was not on overt acclimation of their priorities and ideology. Much of the gains in such states have been due to the use of gerrymandering. In states such as NC it has cost them the Governorship where they have ruled on a mandate dictated by gerrymandering rather than the popular idea.

DfwRevolution wrote:
My own take is that Democrats overplayed their hand back in 2008-2010. I think Democrats were shielded from their missteps by two strengths: 1.) the singular personality and campaigning talents of Barack Obama, and 2.) the rapidly shifting attitudes of the American public to LGBT rights. Well, Obama is now term limited and LGBT rights are mainstream. Otherwise, the shift of the United States from a center-right to a center-left nation just hasn't happened.

Meanwhile, the Democratic party has gone from center-left to solid-left. The Democratic party is totally out-of-touch with mainstream America on environment, energy, and anti-terrorism. Democrats have also staked a risky position on economic and tax policy. As soon as the U.S. hits even normal growth, the redistribution politics of Warren and Sanders loses all appeal. Until a new leader re-emerges from the Reagan Democrat / blue dog Democrat camp, I don't predict great things for Democrats.


The popular vote would say you are wrong om this, and I don't think the Democrats are solid-left. Sandards and Warrent would have more appeal in that case. Trump has won , but it is tenuous at best what occurs going forward. He stirred up a lot of anger and hatred on issue that I don't think the GOP can actually change. The things the GOP can and wants to change, may cost them down the line.
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910A
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:16 pm

I seen some Heritage Foundation folks, are stating that Trump's aides are organizing a First Day Project, where the new President will sign executive orders that will repeal President Obama's executive orders, which basically in their eyes wipe the Obama Presidency off the books. -Right off the Cliff Facebook page.
 
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Aesma
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:18 pm

Dutchy wrote:
If some form of ISDS is included, then I am against it.


Yes, that concept is outrageous. If a company were to use it (it's part of the agreement with Canada that was just passed) against France, I could see this causing a new revolution.

The idea of companies taking countries to court over their laws, well, welcome to a future where there are no countries anymore, but companies instead, owning us.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Veetwo
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:23 pm

910A wrote:
I seen some Heritage Foundation folks, are stating that Trump's aides are organizing a First Day Project, where the new President will sign executive orders that will repeal President Obama's executive orders, which basically in their eyes wipe the Obama Presidency off the books. -Right off the Cliff Facebook page.


Trump has been saying he will do this for months now. Most presidents do something similar on their first few days in office. Obama did, Bush did, Reagan did. Its not really anything unusual. It just sucks if its your party's orders that are being swept away.
Airline employee and Crohn's sufferer.
 
DfwRevolution
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:30 pm

casinterest wrote:
DfwRevolution wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Trump definitely won the Electoral vote by aiming at the Rust Belt and other middle class workers affected by globalization. It comes with a dose of overt bigotry,xenophobia,and misogyny, and racism. How much he can walk back that dose is going to dictate how he is perceived going forward.


I find it amusing how these same people are suddenly bigoted, xenophobic, misogynist, and racist when they are no longer reliable blue states.

Not what I said. I called Trump that. Not the people of those states. And Trump has run his candidacy with those core principles.


Ah, I misread your original post.

casinterest wrote:
The GOP lost Senate and house seats this cycle, and they lost seats in many states. This was not on overt acclimation of their priorities and ideology. Much of the gains in such states have been due to the use of gerrymandering.


Yes, like I said this cycle was a small step backwards for the GOP in Congress.

Both parties have gerrymandered and will continue to do so. Both parties will always use the rules of the game to tilt the advantage in their direction. The difference is that one party is competitive in state politics and the other isn't. You can't be second-place in the political process of ~35 states and see no impact of that on the national stage.

casinterest wrote:
The popular vote would say you are wrong om this, and I don't think the Democrats are solid-left. Sandards and Warrent would have more appeal in that case. Trump has won , but it is tenuous at best what occurs going forward. He stirred up a lot of anger and hatred on issue that I don't think the GOP can actually change. The things the GOP can and wants to change, may cost them down the line.


But the popular vote doesn't matter. Clinton gets no extra credit for winning big in CA and NY. From day one, the purpose of our federal structure is to give a voice to all states.

I perceive that you are generally left-leaning yourself and I think everyone tends to think that their personal politics are representative of the mainstream. But the march of the Democratic party leftward is unmistakable. Look at all the moderate policies of Bill Clinton in the 1990s that Democrats had to disavow in this election cycle. The criminal justice reform, welfare reform, and tax reform that were once considered bipartisan success stories no longer have a place in today's Democratic party. The Democrat's vision for a social "safety net" in the 90s has turned into a vision for "cradle-to-grave" social services today.
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Tugger
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:42 pm

I think I am going to enjoy watching Trump and the supporting Republican's doing the following:

* Build a wall
* Arrest and jail Mrs. Clinton
* Impose steep trade tariffs and barriers
* Remove healthcare for the nation
* Reduce taxes on the wealthy
* Raise taxes on the middle and lower income levels.
* Remove welfare and lower income services

I'm sure I am missing some.... Oh that's right:

* Completely change the military leadership
* Redirect our foreign policy in a new direction
* Change current alliances
* Rewrite existing treaties with treaty partners

There must be more but I am POSITIVE that Trump and the Republican's will do all this and not turn out to be liar's (or to be fully excused by those claiming lying is horrible).

Should be interesting. The Republican's finally caught the car after all that barking...

And as they say: May you live in interesting times! ;-)

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
Amiga500
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:48 pm

Pyrex wrote:
Well, I can tell you what won't happen - no nuclear war will occur in the next 4 years, despite the doubter's best attempts at painting a calamity.


Holy double negative batman...

Does that mean it will happen?


I was going to start digging the bunker this sat anyway just in case - anyone any advice on how deep it would need to be - I expect no direct hits in the vicinity, but probably suffer from fallout if that makes any difference. :?

Should I also mount a mini gun onto the pack of the pickup truck just in case too? :|
 
bmacleod
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:59 pm

-I expect a spike in attacks on Muslim-Americans, African-Americans and Hispanics/Latino's from hard-core Trump supporters. The white supremacist groups in the U.S feel they now have legitimacy and will feel more emboldened and more justified in attacks on minorities.

-LGBTQ marriage rights are now threatened, as there's no doubt the GOP will try to push through an anti-abortion, anti-LGBT lunatic into the Supreme Court.

-Education will go even further down on the list of important matters as the right clearly does not believe in education.

-The gap between rich and poor will explode even further.

-The rest of the world will now see the U.S. as, quite literally, a rogue nation and one that should be feared instead of respected.


Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Trump say he will be "the President for all Americans" in his victory speech?
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
flymia
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:04 pm

The campaign was ugly, but its over now. Its all false promises anyway. Gitmo to close, Healthcare will be cheaper etc.. Its all lies.

Everything needs to relax, let the shock pass by and relax. This is still America. The GOP (like Obama had when he first took office), will have full control. They have less than two years to make some changes, and guess what? If they don't do it, the house and certainly the senate will flip back to the Dems. Its as simple as that.

Everyone talking about the racist and its only uneducated whites who voted for Trump are just WRONG. Trump won because he got independents in states like Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, Florida, and N.C. to vote for Trump when they voted for Obama the last two elections. He won because he had more Blacks and Latinos vote for him than they voted for Romney. He wont because he got more middle and upper middle class Americans that live in our city's suburbs vote for him.

The average American's life has not improved in the past two decades, they gave Democrats a chance for eight years, it has not gotten any better, so its Trump's turn now.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
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cjg225
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:09 pm

bmacleod wrote:
I'm hoping POTUS Trump will be a lot different than Trump the campaigner.

There is no such thing as an elected American official who is the same person in office as he or she was on the campaign trail.

Candidates say whatever they think will get them elected. Once in office, everything changes.

I have little doubt Trump will be substantially different in office than he was as a candidate. It's just a question of what will he be? With Clinton, you could look at a long track record and predict how she'd act (which was different from how she campaigned by quite a bit). With Trump you have none of that. He is the great unknown.

People hanging on what he said during the campaign are looking at this entirely wrong. He could very well be one of the worst things to ever happen to America, but banking on that because of what he said and did during the campaign is a terrible basis for that opinion.
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Tugger
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:09 pm

bmacleod wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Trump say he will be "the President for all Americans" in his victory speech?

Then he will defy the desires of many who voted for him (not all certainly) and also not keep his campaign promises (though I think those were more "statements" than commitments).

Time will tell. I truly do hope he is more than what he stated, that he will be actually a "President for all Americans".

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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cjg225
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:12 pm

PanHAM wrote:
So ould be TTIP but unfortunately both are blocked by people who have just a very limited and theoretical and ideological view of international trade, in fact, most of them don't even know how it works. Indeed, if Trump wants to create Jobs he must put TTIP and TPP high on the Agenda.

True, TTIP is in the same boat. I view TTP is much more important for the US, though.

But you're right; both are largely opposed by people who don't get what these things actually mean for the world. All they see when they look at these are "job losses here," which is not really true in the first place.
Restoring Penn State's transportation heritage...
 
MaverickM11
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Re: President-Elect Trump. Now What

Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:21 pm

bmacleod wrote:
I'm hoping POTUS Trump will be a lot different than Trump the campaigner.

Good luck with that! Would be the first time in his life.
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