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Aesma
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:01 am

Condolences to all the people affected and to the German people. I will also extend them to people affected by terrorism recently, in Egypt, Turkey, Jordan, and probably elsewhere I haven't heard about

DDR wrote:
Still trying to see how you can drive a big truck into a crowd of people and then get away.


No particular security around, chaos created by your actions, it does seem possible.
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winterlight
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:06 pm

DDR wrote:
Still trying to see how you can drive a big truck into a crowd of people and then get away.


The hidden hand involved had a car waiting to collect him.
Question everything. Trust no-one.
 
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OA260
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:39 pm

Berlin attack: Tunisian man 'identified as suspect' from document found in truck

An identity document is found under the driver's seat of the lorry that killed 12 people at a Christmas market.

German police are hunting a Tunisian man over the Berlin market attack after finding an identity document in the lorry, according to reports.

The document was found under the driver's seat of the vehicle that ploughed into crowds at the Christmas market on Monday evening, killing 12 people.

Der Spiegel and Allgemeine Zeitung reported that the document, apparently asylum office papers announcing a stay of deportation, was in the name of Anis A, born in 1992 in Tataouine, Tunisia.

http://news.sky.com/story/berlin-attack ... s-10703902
 
B747forever
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:26 pm

Why is it that in all these attacks the perpetrators always leave their documents/IDs so that they can be easily identified?
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na
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:27 pm

This is known of the man now being searched for:

The suspect is an asylumseeker.
He is from Tunisia, basically a safe country.
He is known to the police as an islamist, and he´s on a list of people judged as dangerous.
He is known to use 4 different names.
Still our authorities handed him a paper of limited legal stay in Germany.

Another funny detail is that a photo has been published showing him with blurred eyes. Practically useless. International press show the full photo. So much for the "power" and "determination" of the German authorities to protect the people from such elements.
 
na
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:29 pm

B747forever wrote:
Why is it that in all these attacks the perpetrators always leave their documents/IDs so that they can be easily identified?


Could be a detraction, but as this man is being known as an islamist he´s certainly not someone Germany should give safe Harbor for more than a day.
 
PanHAM
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:32 pm

B747forever wrote:
Why is it that in all these attacks the perpetrators always leave their documents/IDs so that they can be easily identified?


Simple answer, they are plain stupid. That's a fundamental requirement for becoming an Islamist / religious fanatic. After all, who in his right mind blows himself up or wants to get shot in exchange for 72 Virginians. We had dozens of Terror attempts in Germany where the terrorists failed because they could not get their act together. Lucky for Germany, so far. Berlin was the first attack with a large number of victims.

The authorities have to observe the law, if they make a mistake the perpetrator runs free. The illegal immigration industry makes thousands of lawyers fat. All taxpayer's Money. The fact that Pictures are blurred is based on the personality laws. The legal System is in the "Rehabilitation" gear. For a North African a German prison is a spa and the officers have to be nice and friendly to him. Once the perpetrators realize that and they have recovered from LTFAO, they play the game. Disgusting but there are always political parties that vote against changes in this insane System.
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na
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:42 pm

PanHAM wrote:
B747forever wrote:
The authorities have to observe the law, if they make a mistake the perpetrator runs free. The illegal immigration industry makes thousands of lawyers fat. All taxpayer's Money. The fact that Pictures are blurred is based on the personality laws. The legal System is in the "Rehabilitation" gear. For a North African a German prison is a spa and the officers have to be nice and friendly to him. Once the perpetrators realize that and they have recovered from LTFAO, they play the game. Disgusting but there are always political parties that vote against changes in this insane System.


The layers "growing fat" defending asylumseekers are a price a free society like ours must be willing to pay. I only think that successful ayslumseekers who stay and work here for a long time and make money should be entitled to pay such costs back after some time, just like every German student has to pay back (part of) the money he lend.

I agree with you that the police tools at hand are not sufficient anymore. They may be in theory, but practically they are not. Germany has 16 Federal police agencies, working with 19 different software systems which do not or can not work together like they should. That was even ridiculous back in the 80s, now its only a bad, sad, unbearable joke created by local thinking. If you try to observe a suspects phone and internet communications, and that suspect has three mobiles and 3 computers, the police must find a judge who signs 6 different papers to cover all. And be sure, we have many more softie judges who set islamists free than some who are going the hard way. If you´re driving too fast and you´re caught there is no way out. If you dont pay you might end in prison in the end. However, an islamist with IS connections can quite obviously run free and do his thing.
 
WIederling
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:52 pm

PanHAM wrote:
B747forever wrote:
Why is it that in all these attacks the perpetrators always leave their documents/IDs so that they can be easily identified?


Simple answer, they are plain stupid. That's a fundamental requirement for becoming an Islamist / religious fanatic. After all, who in his right mind blows himself up or wants to get shot in exchange for 72 Virginians. We had dozens of Terror attempts in Germany where the terrorists failed because they could not get their act together. Lucky for Germany, so far. Berlin was the first attack with a large number of victims.

OK. yes. that was remedied by help and guidance from the German "Geheimdienste" in cooperation with some foreign services from the same domain.

I find this troublesome. perpetrators, invariably too dumb to have any idea on their own or geting any traction in execution with that idea
have got help and aid in supply from the state. ( You see the same with NeoNazi groups. Unfailingly their top bras has a side job as under cover contact. ) Looks very much like the State grows its own terrorists.
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PanHAM
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:35 pm

It's the small things People don't notice. Like CCTV, it does not harm "normal" People, they don't realize that the cameras are there, but they also don't realize that the cameras are not there. In Berlin there are hardly any CCTV at all and the left(green/extreme left coalition is highly likely to Keep it that way.

Meanwhile they put pressure on Police. How can Police work efficiently without a single camera at the site. They could not see who is leaving the truck and they could not track the perpetrator. All that for ideologic reasons os some politicians.. Disgusting, especially considering that one of the parties in that coalition is the continuation of the SED which dictated East Germany and spied on their imprisoned citizens. (check the movie "The Life of the Others").

Having 16 states is not the Problem, the federation works and most states work fine as well in the interest of their citizens. Berlin seems always to be the off one out.
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petertenthije
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:18 am

Anis Amri, the suspected truck driver, was shot by police in Milano. During a routing police check he started shooting, with the police returning fire. Apparantly the identity has already been confirmed through finger print analysis, which must have been done very quickly indeed.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38415287
http://www.telegraaf.nl/buitenland/2729 ... od___.html
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NIKV69
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:04 am

petertenthije wrote:
Anis Amri, the suspected truck driver, was shot by police in Milano. During a routing police check he started shooting, with the police returning fire. Apparantly the identity has already been confirmed through finger print analysis, which must have been done very quickly indeed.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38415287
http://www.telegraaf.nl/buitenland/2729 ... od___.html


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na
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:05 am

PanHAM wrote:
It's the small things People don't notice. Like CCTV, it does not harm "normal" People, they don't realize that the cameras are there, but they also don't realize that the cameras are not there. In Berlin there are hardly any CCTV at all and the left(green/extreme left coalition is highly likely to Keep it that way.

Meanwhile they put pressure on Police. How can Police work efficiently without a single camera at the site. They could not see who is leaving the truck and they could not track the perpetrator. All that for ideologic reasons os some politicians.. Disgusting, especially considering that one of the parties in that coalition is the continuation of the SED which dictated East Germany and spied on their imprisoned citizens. (check the movie "The Life of the Others").

I am sure the Leftists, the Green Party and the left wing of the Social Democrats will still try to delay any stronger observation equipment. They say "keep calm" which means nothing but lets delay and do nothing. Or, down to the bone, better wait for further terror attacks than imprison the (still rather small) police-notorious potential terrorists (roughly 500 extreme islamists at the moment).

PanHAM wrote:
IHaving 16 states is not the Problem, the federation works and most states work fine as well in the interest of their citizens. Berlin seems always to be the off one out.

Having 16 states are a problem if those states are all doing their own (incompatible) thing if it comes to security (and not only there).

As for the killing of the suspected Berlin Massmurderer: Grazie. Or: Allahu Akhbar (as terrorists always say).
 
na
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:07 am

The only sad thing is that Amri wasnt severely injured so he could be questioned. But better dead than alive and running away.
 
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:37 pm

As mentioned before, thse guys are dumb, they leave traces like a rat that has waded through a pool of crap. Besides the evidence they provide through their cellphones, questioning will not leave much evidence. That guy who was in Charge of Paris and Brussels attacks is in custoday but he does not say anything. They ask for getting shot, fine with us. Good work, Italian Police.
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na
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:01 pm

PanHAM wrote:
That guy who was in Charge of Paris and Brussels attacks is in custoday but he does not say anything.


Seems he is living in such comfortable conditions that he doesnt feel obliged to say anything. Isnt there is a drug that forces you to say the truth;-? Maybe a diet of Bratwurst will help?
 
AMSATC
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:41 pm

Can the police stop and question anyone (as for ID, etc) at any time in Europe? I'm glad they found this guy.
 
PanHAM
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:24 pm

AMSATC wrote:
Can the police stop and question anyone (as for ID, etc) at any time in Europe? I'm glad they found this guy.


yes, they can ask for an ID, check if the Person is on a wanted list. Not only Police, customs can do that as well. "Schengen" does not mean that no one gets checked.
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ltbewr
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:22 pm

What is disturbing is that how this terrorist got from Berlin, over what 600 Kms. to Milan. Apparently he had on him a high-speed rail ticket via France to Turin, then local train to Milan. Who bought the ticket for him, helped him to escape and get that far and why did he go to Italy/Milan ? Did he have a hiding place there or had arrangements to leave Europe to someplace else to hide ?
Also, how did he get the gun he had on him when confronted by Police and likely used to kill the truck driver?
There are a number of questions as to this still unanswered.
 
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:48 pm

na wrote:
I am sure the Leftists, the Green Party and the left wing of the Social Democrats will still try to delay any stronger observation equipment. They say "keep calm" which means nothing but lets delay and do nothing. Or, down to the bone, better wait for further terror attacks than imprison the (still rather small) police-notorious potential terrorists (roughly 500 extreme islamists at the moment).



I consider myself a leftist, and I'm starting to get very frustrated at my fellow leftists when it comes to the question of immigration from Muslim countries. How many terrorist attacks will it take to convince the rest of us that Islam and Europe mix like Oil and water. Not to mention that it's apparently ridiculously dangerous.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:49 pm

ltbewr wrote:
What is disturbing is that how this terrorist got from Berlin, over what 600 Kms. to Milan. Apparently he had on him a high-speed rail ticket via France to Turin, then local train to Milan. Who bought the ticket for him, helped him to escape and get that far and why did he go to Italy/Milan ? Did he have a hiding place there or had arrangements to leave Europe to someplace else to hide ?
Also, how did he get the gun he had on him when confronted by Police and likely used to kill the truck driver?
There are a number of questions as to this still unanswered.


Oh come on he could buy train tickets from the internet, or from the train station.

Guns are pretty to acquire illegally if you really really want one, he's a bad guy who would know other bad guys who can get guns.

By all accounts he was hiding in plain sight and only went on the run after doing what he did.
 
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:59 pm

na wrote:
The only sad thing is that Amri wasnt severely injured so he could be questioned. But better dead than alive and running away.


From his action he wasn't going to be taken alive and police training is to kill not wound when under deadly attack.
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WIederling
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:01 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
na wrote:
The only sad thing is that Amri wasnt severely injured so he could be questioned. But better dead than alive and running away.


From his action he wasn't going to be taken alive and police training is to kill not wound when under deadly attack.


That is definitely valid for the US. and even perceived threat is enough to shoot to kill.
But that is not how it is handled in Europe.
We like our perpetrators to appear and be sentenced in front of a judge.
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:31 am

WIederling wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
na wrote:
The only sad thing is that Amri wasnt severely injured so he could be questioned. But better dead than alive and running away.


From his action he wasn't going to be taken alive and police training is to kill not wound when under deadly attack.


That is definitely valid for the US. and even perceived threat is enough to shoot to kill.
But that is not how it is handled in Europe.
We like our perpetrators to appear and be sentenced in front of a judge.


So in Europe they prefer to take the risk that the perpetrator can possibly escape and therefore possibly commit another attack? Take the risk of some pc / spineless judge giving the terrorist tax payer funded accommodation and meals in prison for life? No wonder the place is a mess...
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:44 am

NIKV69 wrote:
From his action he wasn't going to be taken alive and police training is to kill not wound when under deadly attack.


I'll only address this, since the normal extremist Islamic apologists and critics have spoken.

A common misconception or lie, depending on who is spouting it.

Police training is not to shoot-to-kill, police training is to use force, up to and including deadly force, until there is no longer a threat. Sometimes that means death,usually it doesn't. The only situation I can think of where police shoot-to-kill is a sniper situation.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
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TheF15Ace
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:54 am

777Jet wrote:
WIederling wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

From his action he wasn't going to be taken alive and police training is to kill not wound when under deadly attack.


That is definitely valid for the US. and even perceived threat is enough to shoot to kill.
But that is not how it is handled in Europe.
We like our perpetrators to appear and be sentenced in front of a judge.


Take the risk of some pc / spineless judge giving the terrorist tax payer funded accommodation and meals in prison for life? No wonder the place is a mess...


Might not even serve life. Don't forget there is always the ''released on compassionate grounds''
 
prebennorholm
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:35 am

fr8mech wrote:
Police training is not to shoot-to-kill, police training is to use force, up to and including deadly force, until there is no longer a threat. Sometimes that means death,usually it doesn't. The only situation I can think of where police shoot-to-kill is a sniper situation.

Nah, that was in the old days. Recent events in Copenhagen, Paris, and now Milan, seem to indicate that European police no longer take any chances when up against islamist terrorists.

They shoot to kill. One reason is, that the faster they kill, the less chance of a suicide bomb belt going off.
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fr8mech
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 4:58 am

prebennorholm wrote:
Nah, that was in the old days. Recent events in Copenhagen, Paris, and now Milan, seem to indicate that European police no longer take any chances when up against islamist terrorists.

They shoot to kill. One reason is, that the faster they kill, the less chance of a suicide bomb belt going off.


I wasn't addressing police in European nations, especially since they have dealt with terrorism up close and personal in previous decades. Police forces in the US are trained to use force until the threat is stopped...in "normal" criminal situations.

Suicide terrorism is a different story. The threat isn't necessarily directed solely at the officer in question, but at a larger target group. A terrorist may have a bomb strapped to him, so merely incapacitating him is not really an option.

We have to understand and separate the terrorist from the criminal, and deal with each accordingly.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
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Aesma
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:04 am

In France police have no more right to shoot someone that you and me. They have the same right of self-defense, must use proportionate response, etc.

The law is being changed right now because of the terrorist attacks, however. And the practice had already changed, when confronted with obvious terrorists no chance is taken. Usually it doesn't even cross the legal line as these guys are in the process of attacking anyway.
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fr8mech
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:40 am

Aesma wrote:
In France police have no more right to shoot someone that you and me. They have the same right of self-defense, must use proportionate response, etc.


Believe it or not, that is the case here, except that police (and civilians, in most jurisdictions) may use deadly force in protection of others, if the use of that force is deemed reasonable.

Aesma wrote:
The law is being changed right now because of the terrorist attacks, however. And the practice had already changed, when confronted with obvious terrorists no chance is taken. Usually it doesn't even cross the legal line as these guys are in the process of attacking anyway.


That is good to hear. The mindset must change from criminality to warfare. Unfortunately, in our societies, it is the police that are being thrust into combat with the terrorists. Of course, this is by design. The terrorists aren't attacking fortified locations, they are hitting soft targets.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
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PanHAM
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:36 am

From what is available in the News, the guy did not go o express Trains, which require a Reservation. Instead he used local and egional Trains. tickets can be bought from a vending machine at stations. I rather have a Terrorist killer travel 1000 km through Europe undetected before he is asked by Police to identify himself than having travel restrictions. europe is a free spociety if terrorists manage that a policeman is stationed at every Train Station vending machine, than the terrorists have reached their Goal.
The free System works, that guy is dead and he left an abundance of leads that will result in arrests in the near future and Deportation of perpetrators from the Maghreb states will be accelerated.
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Dano1977
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 5:28 pm

PanHAM wrote:
From what is available in the News, the guy did not go o express Trains, which require a Reservation. Instead he used local and egional Trains. tickets can be bought from a vending machine at stations. I rather have a Terrorist killer travel 1000 km through Europe undetected before he is asked by Police to identify himself than having travel restrictions. europe is a free spociety if terrorists manage that a policeman is stationed at every Train Station vending machine, than the terrorists have reached their Goal.
The free System works, that guy is dead and he left an abundance of leads that will result in arrests in the near future and Deportation of perpetrators from the Maghreb states will be accelerated.


I agree with you to a point. Yes Schengen is nice to travel between countries without restrictions or checks.

But you need to make sure the outer walls of Schengen are robust so the undesirables don't get in and have free travel throughout Europe to commit crime or terrorist atrocities.

So the questions have to be asked...

When he was released from prison in Italy, why wasn't he deported?

Why wasn't he put on the European crime system - So when he did pop up in other European countries, his name was flagged and could be deported.

The holes in the cheese lined up this time, and 12 people have paid with their lives due to failures in the system.
The average EU official - he has the organising ability of the Italians, the flexibility of the Germans and the modesty of the French. And that's topped up by the imagination of the Belgians, the generosity of the Dutch.
 
PanHAM
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:42 am

I mentioned earlier, Germany (and the other EU states) are no Police states. The developments with Islamistic Terror will not Change that. What will be changed, and that is currently sped up, is the use of Information Systems. The high priority is to make them compatible.Eve that Needs changing of some laws in some countries. Laws about data protecion. Bt even that is no guarantee for safety and security.
He and thousand others could not and cannot be deported because they have no traveldocuments and their home countries will not take them back. The day that guy was shot his Tunesian passport arrived. People who disguise their identity should not be admitted i first place. But again, we have liberal laws prohibiting such restrictions. IMHO someone who disguises his real identify is a criminal and should be detained. Such a person has it in his own hands to be released, but that release can only be in one direction, back to homeland.
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pvjin
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Sun Dec 25, 2016 1:37 pm

PanHAM wrote:
I mentioned earlier, Germany (and the other EU states) are no Police states. The developments with Islamistic Terror will not Change that. What will be changed, and that is currently sped up, is the use of Information Systems. The high priority is to make them compatible.Eve that Needs changing of some laws in some countries. Laws about data protecion. Bt even that is no guarantee for safety and security.
He and thousand others could not and cannot be deported because they have no traveldocuments and their home countries will not take them back. The day that guy was shot his Tunesian passport arrived. People who disguise their identity should not be admitted i first place. But again, we have liberal laws prohibiting such restrictions. IMHO someone who disguises his real identify is a criminal and should be detained. Such a person has it in his own hands to be released, but that release can only be in one direction, back to homeland.

No amount of information tech will prevent lone wolf attacks like this from happening as long as EU's border control is one big joke. If Europeans want to avoid chaotic future they must vote for somebody who actually gives a damn about them, in case of Germany most likely candidates from afd. More Merkel means more wahhabi terrorists in Germany, it's as simple as that.

In Asia there are many well functioning democracies that don't tolerate Islamist hate speech and have strict refugee policies, we should learn from them. If Europeans are too dumb for that then too bad.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
PanHAM
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:14 pm

Wrong that lone wolf was not a lone wolf in fist place, he has suppoters in Europeand the Middle East and with his wallet and phone eft to the Police for forensic checks we can look Forward to arrests.And if Italy had informed Germany, or if that info would have been available, he would not have een admitted into the asylum procedure, besides that, he was rejected anyhow.

Keep dreaming about the AFD, no one wants to get into a coaltion with them and even if they could form a government, they could do nothing better. They would have to obey the bsic laws as any other government and if they don't they would be stopped by the Courts.

Whatever extreme parties, be that from the left or the right tell them suckers who fall for their Propaganda, is only bla bla.
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pvjin
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:29 pm

PanHAM wrote:
Wrong that lone wolf was not a lone wolf in fist place, he has suppoters in Europeand the Middle East and with his wallet and phone eft to the Police for forensic checks we can look Forward to arrests.And if Italy had informed Germany, or if that info would have been available, he would not have een admitted into the asylum procedure, besides that, he was rejected anyhow.

Keep dreaming about the AFD, no one wants to get into a coaltion with them and even if they could form a government, they could do nothing better. They would have to obey the bsic laws as any other government and if they don't they would be stopped by the Courts.

Whatever extreme parties, be that from the left or the right tell them suckers who fall for their Propaganda, is only bla bla.


Yea whatever, keep voting for Merkel and watch more and more innocent Europeans die. Personally I value my safety much higher than the opportunity to give my money to poor Muslim asylum seekers. Don't get me wrong though, I have much more respect for the asylum seekers than for Germans who vote Merkel. Only the latter group is acting irrationally and being weak.


Exactly this German sheep mentality allowed Hitler to start ww2 and commit the holocaust, now it's making people defend Merkel and radical wahhabi Islam which shares many similar values with ww2 nazis.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:10 pm

na wrote:
The only sad thing is that Amri wasnt severely injured so he could be questioned.

... only to be charged, possibly put on trial and most likely be given some ridiculous sentence? Perhaps the judge would even find some useful quote from Koran to get him off the hook.
The Italian cops saved everyone a lot of money. Good riddance and congratulations!
 
PanHAM
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Mon Dec 26, 2016 8:03 am

Quote pvjin
Exactly this German sheep mentality allowed Hitler to start ww2 and commit the holocaust, now it's making people defend Merkel and radical wahhabi Islam which shares many similar values with ww2 nazis
unquote

you haven't got a clue what you are talking about. Germany is a functioning Democracy where the Division of powers work. No single politician can rule by decret under normal conditions and each move has to be in accordance with the Basic law. The left and right wing extremists would not be able to put their paroles to work. They can fool the sheep with their paroles but they won't Change anything., except to the worse
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
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pvjin
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:27 am

PanHAM wrote:
Quote pvjin
Exactly this German sheep mentality allowed Hitler to start ww2 and commit the holocaust, now it's making people defend Merkel and radical wahhabi Islam which shares many similar values with ww2 nazis
unquote

you haven't got a clue what you are talking about. Germany is a functioning Democracy where the Division of powers work. No single politician can rule by decret under normal conditions and each move has to be in accordance with the Basic law. The left and right wing extremists would not be able to put their paroles to work. They can fool the sheep with their paroles but they won't Change anything., except to the worse


In any real democracy changes can be made if there's enough support and political will for them. If that isn't the case in Germany then I'm sorry to tell you that you're living in a pseudo-democracy where people really have no say whatsoever in how their country is being run.

If AFD can't change things then the change will come in form of sharia. I don't care which form of conservatism rules Europe as long as you leftist liberals lose, and that seems inevitable. Eurocommies are surrounded by the conservative right and islamists with nowhere to flee.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
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seahawk
Posts: 10309
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:42 am

pvjin wrote:
PanHAM wrote:
Wrong that lone wolf was not a lone wolf in fist place, he has suppoters in Europeand the Middle East and with his wallet and phone eft to the Police for forensic checks we can look Forward to arrests.And if Italy had informed Germany, or if that info would have been available, he would not have een admitted into the asylum procedure, besides that, he was rejected anyhow.

Keep dreaming about the AFD, no one wants to get into a coaltion with them and even if they could form a government, they could do nothing better. They would have to obey the bsic laws as any other government and if they don't they would be stopped by the Courts.

Whatever extreme parties, be that from the left or the right tell them suckers who fall for their Propaganda, is only bla bla.


Yea whatever, keep voting for Merkel and watch more and more innocent Europeans die. Personally I value my safety much higher than the opportunity to give my money to poor Muslim asylum seekers. Don't get me wrong though, I have much more respect for the asylum seekers than for Germans who vote Merkel. Only the latter group is acting irrationally and being weak.


Exactly this German sheep mentality allowed Hitler to start ww2 and commit the holocaust, now it's making people defend Merkel and radical wahhabi Islam which shares many similar values with ww2 nazis.


Europeans are not innocent. The rise of Islamic terrorism is in a direct connection to the politics of Western countries towards Muslim countries in the last 25 years.
 
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pvjin
Posts: 3586
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:09 am

seahawk wrote:
pvjin wrote:
PanHAM wrote:
Wrong that lone wolf was not a lone wolf in fist place, he has suppoters in Europeand the Middle East and with his wallet and phone eft to the Police for forensic checks we can look Forward to arrests.And if Italy had informed Germany, or if that info would have been available, he would not have een admitted into the asylum procedure, besides that, he was rejected anyhow.

Keep dreaming about the AFD, no one wants to get into a coaltion with them and even if they could form a government, they could do nothing better. They would have to obey the bsic laws as any other government and if they don't they would be stopped by the Courts.

Whatever extreme parties, be that from the left or the right tell them suckers who fall for their Propaganda, is only bla bla.


Yea whatever, keep voting for Merkel and watch more and more innocent Europeans die. Personally I value my safety much higher than the opportunity to give my money to poor Muslim asylum seekers. Don't get me wrong though, I have much more respect for the asylum seekers than for Germans who vote Merkel. Only the latter group is acting irrationally and being weak.


Exactly this German sheep mentality allowed Hitler to start ww2 and commit the holocaust, now it's making people defend Merkel and radical wahhabi Islam which shares many similar values with ww2 nazis.


Europeans are not innocent. The rise of Islamic terrorism is in a direct connection to the politics of Western countries towards Muslim countries in the last 25 years.


You're right, Europeans are guilty of extreme stupidity. Still, politicians should be the ones receiving the punishment, not ordinary people who had no way to change things.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
PanHAM
Posts: 9719
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Mon Dec 26, 2016 2:19 pm

@ pvjin, from your replies one can take it that you, like that guy in the Picture, at best mean a guided Democracy. That is not a real Democracy. In Germany the results are not fiddled. We don't usually have absolute majorities in German election results whch means that coalitions have to be formed. The afD can, at worse, make 15 % in the forthcoming General election. but even if the AfD would have an absolute majority, they could not pass laws that are not compatibe with the basic laws of this country. That is something you don't seem to understand. The judiciary is Independent from the lgislative and the executive. BTW, the sharia is not compatible with the Basic law either. In Germany, the law stand above everything. including Religion. .

Quote seahawk:
Europeans are not innocent. The rise of Islamic terrorism is in a direct connection to the politics of Western countries towards Muslim countries in the last 25 years
unquote

sorry seahawk, but not this self pitying BS again. For exactly the reason I wrote above, the Muslim world is in shambles. Get an enlightenment, set the law above Religion and solve your Problems that way. As Long as the Religion is set above the law and hundreds of religious Groups Claim that only they are in the posession of the real truth, the muslim world will suffer. Don't blame us in the western world for that.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
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seahawk
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:17 pm

PanHAM wrote:
sorry seahawk, but not this self pitying BS again. For exactly the reason I wrote above, the Muslim world is in shambles. Get an enlightenment, set the law above Religion and solve your Problems that way. As Long as the Religion is set above the law and hundreds of religious Groups Claim that only they are in the posession of the real truth, the muslim world will suffer. Don't blame us in the western world for that.

Imho it is not, because we went in and came with the idea of regime change and removal of the evil dictators, but those dictators kept the extremists under control. In fact the former "communist" dictators did more for modernizing the society than our "allies" in the Gulf. Sorry, but bombing Assad and being friends with the Saudi Crown is imho a direct way of supporting terrorism.
 
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seb146
Posts: 23741
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Mon Dec 26, 2016 5:58 pm

PanHAM wrote:
@ pvjin, from your replies one can take it that you, like that guy in the Picture, at best mean a guided Democracy. That is not a real Democracy. In Germany the results are not fiddled. We don't usually have absolute majorities in German election results whch means that coalitions have to be formed. The afD can, at worse, make 15 % in the forthcoming General election. but even if the AfD would have an absolute majority, they could not pass laws that are not compatibe with the basic laws of this country. That is something you don't seem to understand. The judiciary is Independent from the lgislative and the executive. BTW, the sharia is not compatible with the Basic law either. In Germany, the law stand above everything. including Religion. .

Quote seahawk:
Europeans are not innocent. The rise of Islamic terrorism is in a direct connection to the politics of Western countries towards Muslim countries in the last 25 years
unquote

sorry seahawk, but not this self pitying BS again. For exactly the reason I wrote above, the Muslim world is in shambles. Get an enlightenment, set the law above Religion and solve your Problems that way. As Long as the Religion is set above the law and hundreds of religious Groups Claim that only they are in the posession of the real truth, the muslim world will suffer. Don't blame us in the western world for that.


What about these politicians who scream that ALL Muslims are to blame? I fee that terrorists feel they need to strike because they think a few speak for the masses and see some people carrying that opinion around. There are people here in the United States who honestly believe that ALL Muslims are terrorists and ALL Muslims need to be rounded up. They believe this because certain entertainment outlets calling themselves news and certain politicians say the exact same thing. Blame does not lie solely on one side or the other, but both sides for different reasons.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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SOBHI51
Posts: 3950
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:33 pm

[quote="pvjin"][quote="PanHAM"]Quote pvjin



In any real democracy

PVJIN, the last thing you can talk about is democracy, you don't even know the meaning of the word as long as you have Putin as your idol.
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
mham001
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:46 pm

seahawk wrote:
Europeans are not innocent. The rise of Islamic terrorism is in a direct connection to the politics of Western countries towards Muslim countries in the last 25 years.


Actually, it began loong before that. Try European colonization and illogical map making.
 
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seahawk
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Mon Dec 26, 2016 8:31 pm

seb146 wrote:
PanHAM wrote:
@ pvjin, from your replies one can take it that you, like that guy in the Picture, at best mean a guided Democracy. That is not a real Democracy. In Germany the results are not fiddled. We don't usually have absolute majorities in German election results whch means that coalitions have to be formed. The afD can, at worse, make 15 % in the forthcoming General election. but even if the AfD would have an absolute majority, they could not pass laws that are not compatibe with the basic laws of this country. That is something you don't seem to understand. The judiciary is Independent from the lgislative and the executive. BTW, the sharia is not compatible with the Basic law either. In Germany, the law stand above everything. including Religion. .

Quote seahawk:
Europeans are not innocent. The rise of Islamic terrorism is in a direct connection to the politics of Western countries towards Muslim countries in the last 25 years
unquote

sorry seahawk, but not this self pitying BS again. For exactly the reason I wrote above, the Muslim world is in shambles. Get an enlightenment, set the law above Religion and solve your Problems that way. As Long as the Religion is set above the law and hundreds of religious Groups Claim that only they are in the posession of the real truth, the muslim world will suffer. Don't blame us in the western world for that.


What about these politicians who scream that ALL Muslims are to blame? I fee that terrorists feel they need to strike because they think a few speak for the masses and see some people carrying that opinion around. There are people here in the United States who honestly believe that ALL Muslims are terrorists and ALL Muslims need to be rounded up. They believe this because certain entertainment outlets calling themselves news and certain politicians say the exact same thing. Blame does not lie solely on one side or the other, but both sides for different reasons.


Not the problem. The problem is that we call those funding extrêmist Islam allies and fight those keeping those extremists under control.
 
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seb146
Posts: 23741
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:28 am

seahawk wrote:
seb146 wrote:
PanHAM wrote:
@ pvjin, from your replies one can take it that you, like that guy in the Picture, at best mean a guided Democracy. That is not a real Democracy. In Germany the results are not fiddled. We don't usually have absolute majorities in German election results whch means that coalitions have to be formed. The afD can, at worse, make 15 % in the forthcoming General election. but even if the AfD would have an absolute majority, they could not pass laws that are not compatibe with the basic laws of this country. That is something you don't seem to understand. The judiciary is Independent from the lgislative and the executive. BTW, the sharia is not compatible with the Basic law either. In Germany, the law stand above everything. including Religion. .

Quote seahawk:
Europeans are not innocent. The rise of Islamic terrorism is in a direct connection to the politics of Western countries towards Muslim countries in the last 25 years
unquote

sorry seahawk, but not this self pitying BS again. For exactly the reason I wrote above, the Muslim world is in shambles. Get an enlightenment, set the law above Religion and solve your Problems that way. As Long as the Religion is set above the law and hundreds of religious Groups Claim that only they are in the posession of the real truth, the muslim world will suffer. Don't blame us in the western world for that.


What about these politicians who scream that ALL Muslims are to blame? I fee that terrorists feel they need to strike because they think a few speak for the masses and see some people carrying that opinion around. There are people here in the United States who honestly believe that ALL Muslims are terrorists and ALL Muslims need to be rounded up. They believe this because certain entertainment outlets calling themselves news and certain politicians say the exact same thing. Blame does not lie solely on one side or the other, but both sides for different reasons.


Not the problem. The problem is that we call those funding extrêmist Islam allies and fight those keeping those extremists under control.


Yes that is part of the problem. But, when elected officials can paint with a broad brush so that millions believe all of one religion are to blame, that is a problem as well.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
PanHAM
Posts: 9719
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Re: BREAKING :: Suspected terror attack on Christmas Market in Berlin

Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:33 am

The Problem of islamistic terror can only be solved by Muslims themselves. I repeat myself, put the law above the religion, get an enlightenment like Christianity did 500 years ago, follow reformers instead of religious hardliners and stop self pitying. As Long as religious groups within a faith terrorize each other, that faith cannot blame others for the Problems they have. Religion is a private matter, nothing that can be forced upon People It is an individual choice whether a person follows a religion or not. Stop calling People with other regligious believes or no religious believe at atll "infidels". That is an intolerant Insult in itself. Only by accepting that People have individual rights we can leave peacefully together. As a matter of fact, that choice is offered only in the so called Western Democracies and in no other poltical structure. ,
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!

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