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D L X
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Re: White man tortured accused of Trump supporter

Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:08 pm

mham001 wrote:
D L X wrote:
mham001 wrote:

I suppose if you say it enough times, it becomes your "truth"?

Nothing, anywhere I have ever posted has said anything of the sort.

You've implied it. (PS: look up "imply" before you answer.")


Sorry, you won't get off so easy with that deflection.


LOL.

I'm not the one on the hook. Again, please explain how you do not feel superior to these people you are talking about.
 
tommy1808
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Re: White man tortured accused of Trump supporter

Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:07 am

mham001 wrote:
Tran, Jesus and Mohammed have only arrived in this and the last generation, so no, they have not been subjected to the racial discrimination that blacks have received. Why should they receive the same benefits of the descendants of slaves?


You seem to suffer from the delusion that discrimination has ended. When the board rooms of your S&P500 companies look something like your society (50% women, 18% Latino, 13% black and so on) is the time when your argument has any merit to it.

best regards
Thomas
 
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seahawk
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Re: White man tortured accused of Trump supporter

Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:35 am

Sorry, but this is just a simplified green view.

People are different. Different cultures place different value on education and different genders have different interests. Imho the Asian immigrants have proven that it is not racial discrimination which is holding the other minorities back, it is themselves holding them back by not valuing education.
 
tommy1808
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Re: White man tortured accused of Trump supporter

Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:16 am

seahawk wrote:
People are different. Different cultures place different value on education and different genders have different interests.


Right... there are cultures out there that don´t like having money and living a good life. Got that. Black people and Latinos are poor and not in corporate Boardrooms because they don´t like money. Probably because they are lazy or stupid or something, ask you local KKK....

And they are all Americans, their culture is American.

Go to DeWitt, MI HIghschool in very white america and compare that to a school in downtown Lansing, which is very black in comparison .... seems that the people in Charge of educating children have much less interests in spending money on educating black children, but like to spend money on neatly trimmed gras golfclub style for the white kids.

(and yes, i know that both school get paid by different budgets, but the principle holds).

But with your way of thinking i think Germany doesn´t have enough affirmative action....

best regards
Thomas
 
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seahawk
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Re: White man tortured accused of Trump supporter

Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:40 am

Let me know when you want to have a serious discussion. Imho it has been proven that the value parents place on education has a major impact on the success of their children in the school system. At least in Germany it at has been looked at closely recently. And research found out that parents from different cultures but also from different economic classes value the education of the children differently. The first major point was that the higher the education of the parents, the higher is their emphasis on education for their children. But it also showed that for the cultural background has has influence, with East Asians usually placing the highest value on education regardless of their social standard. On the other hand the immigrants from Arab countries usually place a lower value on education, especially for their daughters.

I have read similar studies focusing on the ingenious population in Australia and New Zealand coming to the same basic conclusions. And if you think about it makes sense. For a child money and future work life is an abstract idea it can not grasp before it is well advanced in its school career. Positive feedback from the parents for educational achievements however work at the earliest age. Imho we need to rethink on how this problem can be solved. Blaming racial discrimination is imho not helpful.

Let me copy you an abstract for a recent study:

The aim of the contribution is to examine reasons for differences in the frequency of activities between parents and children that are stimulating. Since such activities affect the development of children and their school career, it is important to understand the mechanisms behind such differences. We assume that the social background and cultural capital of parents are strong explanatory factors. It is suggested that cultural capital is transferred through joint activities to the child. Using the data of the project “Preschool education and educational careers among migrant children” the influences of the socio-economic background are analysed. We show that the frequency of parental activities depends on their social origin. The multivariate analyses reveal that these differences are due to the different endowment of families with cultural capital, thus revealing a possible mechanism for the transfer of cultural capital.

Full text in German: http://www.budrich-journals.de/index.ph ... ticle/3794
 
tommy1808
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Re: White man tortured accused of Trump supporter

Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:04 am

seahawk wrote:
Let me know when you want to have a serious discussion.


There is no way to have a serious discussion with racists, as they have no points to make. And you just demonstrated perfectly how racists can pick a study that they like and just use that out of context. They are especially perfect in twisting descriptions of the now state into a general rule to feed their own superiority complex.

There are families of all backgrounds that value education, i had plenty of female fellow students from Countries like Iran that have been picked by their families to get a good education abroad, many of them as the only child and instead of a brother.

Hence everything your study found out will fade over time, as they will have kids with cultural background and education that will produce kids that fit the same description. Parents violating their children right to education are just as much a policy problem as men thinking they can rape their wifes or beat their kids. Not the kids and wifes problem.

best regards
Thomas
 
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seahawk
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Re: White man tortured accused of Trump supporter

Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:35 am

What is out of context, when a study shows that certain social groups are less often engaging in stimulating activities with their children than other groups? Hopefully such things will fade over time, but as you said yourself, only if education is valued equally in all social groups, can it be expected that all social groups are equally represented in jobs requiring higher education.
 
ltbewr
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Re: White man tortured accused of Trump supporter

Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:51 am

The definition of hate as to certain crimes is more about motivation to do the crime. In the USA, we have too many politicians wanting to kiss up for votes from certain groups by laws and policy that will attract that vote. So we create special 'hate' criminal statues rather than just adjust the penalties where hate is the motive of the criminal acts. Pretty much all persons belong to a protected group so nobody is.
 
tommy1808
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Re: White man tortured accused of Trump supporter

Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:28 pm

seahawk wrote:
What is out of context, when a study shows that certain social groups are less often engaging in stimulating activities with their children than other groups?


You are using a descriptive study of the current situation to derive a general rule. Correlation doesn't imply causation.

best regards
Thomas
 
Hillis
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Re: White man tortured accused of Trump supporter

Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:47 pm

mham001 wrote:
Tran, Jesus and Mohammed have only arrived in this and the last generation, so no, they have not been subjected to the racial discrimination that blacks have received. Why should they receive the same benefits of the descendants of slaves?


There's a difference between them being here, and you not noticing them, and them not being here at all. They've been here all the while, you are just to ignorant to realize it. Substitute a name like Hiroshi for Tran, and you certainly can't make that claim at all. Ask George Takei. Ask my eye doctor growing up, both of whom spent a few years in an internment camp, even though they were American citizens.

The fact remains that, with the exception of the last few decades, minorities of all kinds have been virtually invisible in this nation, which has been dominated by white males for 400 years. One reason whites are so angry is that Tran, Jesus, Mohammed and Trayvon are increasing in numbers while Billy Bob and Bubby are dying off. Maybe you don't believe those white nationalists that say they aim to make this a white nation again, but I believe they believe it. They're scared to death of this nation not being dominated by whites. That is one reason why The Orange Man resonated so well with white people.

Again, I wonder if you even realize the abject racism that you're typing out? From what I can gather, you don't have a clue.
 
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seahawk
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Re: White man tortured accused of Trump supporter

Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:51 pm

You started the discussion with stating that "the current board rooms of your S&P500 companies" do not mirror the current society. So I replied with my view of the current problems in the educational system and how they imho are a possible reason for the current problem you described.I fail to see how tried to derive a general rule with my statement.
 
tommy1808
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Re: White man tortured accused of Trump supporter

Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:55 pm

seahawk wrote:
You started the discussion with stating that "the current board rooms of your S&P500 companies" do not mirror the current society..


unless i got my grammar in a twist, very possible, the "when" indicates a time in the future, and therefore the then current boardroom mirroring the then current society.

best regards
Thomas
 
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seahawk
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Re: White man tortured accused of Trump supporter

Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:01 pm

I did understand it, that you meant to say that the current distribution is solely based on racial discrimination. But as English is only my second language, this can easily have been a misunderstanding on my part. Sorry for that.
 
tommy1808
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Re: White man tortured accused of Trump supporter

Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:52 pm

seahawk wrote:
But as English is only my second language, this can easily have been a misunderstanding on my part. Sorry for that.


Same here. Still possible that i phrased it wrong ;-)

best regards
Thomas
 
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seahawk
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Re: White man tortured accused of Trump supporter

Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:08 pm

So did 2 non Americans really just debate with each other about racism in America?
 
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Dreadnought
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Re: White man tortured accused of Trump supporter

Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:28 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
People are different. Different cultures place different value on education and different genders have different interests.


Right... there are cultures out there that don´t like having money and living a good life. Got that. Black people and Latinos are poor and not in corporate Boardrooms because they don´t like money. Probably because they are lazy or stupid or something, ask you local KKK....

And they are all Americans, their culture is American.

Go to DeWitt, MI HIghschool in very white america and compare that to a school in downtown Lansing, which is very black in comparison .... seems that the people in Charge of educating children have much less interests in spending money on educating black children, but like to spend money on neatly trimmed gras golfclub style for the white kids.

(and yes, i know that both school get paid by different budgets, but the principle holds).

But with your way of thinking i think Germany doesn´t have enough affirmative action....



The point is that you cannot rationally expect that 50% of corporate boards should be women just because they make up 50% of the general population, because the proportion of women interested in such a career and doing what is needed for it is far smaller than among men. Women tend to work part-time, take years off to raise kids, or simply spend their entire lives at home far more than men. Simple fact. It is also far more socially acceptable for women to make such choices. It is a social expectation for men to work full time as hard as they can from the time they leave school (or earlier) all the way to retirement, regardless of family or other considerations. Women don't have that expectation.

You mentioned schools in Michigan, specifically Lansing and DeWitt. Look at the stats - Spending per student in Lansing is significantly higher than in DeWitt (and Detroit is even higher) - supporting the conservative position that simply throwing more money at the education system is not the answer.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/mde/b1014_14_481982_7.pdf

As for the difference between races etc, I would say that the difference is not so much of race but of culture. Asians were hardly welcomed into America 100+ years ago - in fact they were treated pretty damned badly. But now their educational and economic performance is even better than that of white people. It's a cultural thing (we've all heard of the 'Tiger Mom'). I wish that people would stop bitching about the imaginary bogeyman of 'Institutional racism' and examine the culture and behaviors within different segments of society to determine what drives success or failure. Example: The number 1 driver of inter-generational poverty is single motherhood - this is true among all races. I don't hear a lot of discussion about the need to strongly discourage single women from having kids.
 
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Aesma
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Re: White man tortured accused of Trump supporter

Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:44 pm

Starting with sex ed, planned parenthood and things like that, you mean ?
 
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Dreadnought
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Re: White man tortured accused of Trump supporter

Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:08 pm

Aesma wrote:
Starting with sex ed, planned parenthood and things like that, you mean ?


You baiter you... LOL.

I'm no religious nut who doesn't want sex ed, and I am pro-choice. But I would ask you to consider the dramatic increase in single motherhood rates over the past century (Basically they have been multiplied by a factor of 10 in that time) and the fact that they did not have sex ed and abortion services at the time. So my argument to you is that sex ed and Planned Parenthood have not had any positive impact on the rates of single motherhood, and throwing more money at that will have no effect. Look somewhere else.
 
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Aesma
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Re: White man tortured accused of Trump supporter

Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:23 pm

At what age were girls married 100 years ago, and with what education ?
 
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Dreadnought
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Re: White man tortured accused of Trump supporter

Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:12 pm

Aesma wrote:
At what age were girls married 100 years ago, and with what education ?


Google is your friend...
Year Males Females
1890 26.1 22.0
2010 28.2 26.1

A few years different. But what is your point? That sex ed discourages single motherhood? Not supported by facts. That public funding of planned parenthood discourages single motherhood? Again, not supported by facts. Single women are CHOSING, by choice, of their own volition, forgoing options including abortion and giving up the kid for adoption, to have kids outside of wedlock. Fact.

My question to you is 1) are you interested in reversing this trend? and 2) if yes, what do you think would work?
 
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Aesma
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Re: White man tortured accused of Trump supporter

Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:57 am

I don't really care about the trend, and marriage is not something that important in my country. My brother is having his first child and isn't married. Both him and his partner have a good education (he's in finance and she's an architect) so I don't think the child will suffer (or care).

Now as to your second question I have no idea.

I'm quite opposed to marriage in truth, especially the kind you get in the US, very easy to get in and out of, except that if you have money, it will cost you. In France if a rich person and a poor person get married and later divorce, the one that was poor at the beginning will get a good alimony, but not ludicrous sums like in the US. Those stories cheapen the concept of marriage.
 
stratosphere
Topic Author
Posts: 2029
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Re: White man tortured accused of Trump supporter

Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:40 am

tommy1808 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
People are different. Different cultures place different value on education and different genders have different interests.


Right... there are cultures out there that don´t like having money and living a good life. Got that. Black people and Latinos are poor and not in corporate Boardrooms because they don´t like money. Probably because they are lazy or stupid or something, ask you local KKK....

And they are all Americans, their culture is American.

Go to DeWitt, MI HIghschool in very white america and compare that to a school in downtown Lansing, which is very black in comparison .... seems that the people in Charge of educating children have much less interests in spending money on educating black children, but like to spend money on neatly trimmed gras golfclub style for the white kids.

(and yes, i know that both school get paid by different budgets, but the principle holds).

But with your way of thinking i think Germany doesn´t have enough affirmative action....

best regards
Thomas


Some truth to what you say, However, you can dump all the money you want into inner city schools with black children will do no good if the kids have no discipline and do not want to learn and are disruptive in the class and ruin it for those who do want to learn. I have seen blacks that strive to learn and their own peers strike them down and keep them down telling the kids that want to achieve they are uncle toms. Until you have kids that have some semblance of a stable home life and a parent (would be better to have a mother and father) but a parent who is actively engaged in their child's life you are never going to get anywhere. There is a reason where I live Memphis that most of the people I work with put their kids in private school. Has nothing to do with race it has everything to do with having their kids in an environment where kids who want to learn can learn without the BS that is allowed in public schools today.
 
Hillis
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Re: White man tortured accused of Trump supporter

Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:30 pm

stratosphere wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
People are different. Different cultures place different value on education and different genders have different interests.


Right... there are cultures out there that don´t like having money and living a good life. Got that. Black people and Latinos are poor and not in corporate Boardrooms because they don´t like money. Probably because they are lazy or stupid or something, ask you local KKK....

And they are all Americans, their culture is American.

Go to DeWitt, MI HIghschool in very white america and compare that to a school in downtown Lansing, which is very black in comparison .... seems that the people in Charge of educating children have much less interests in spending money on educating black children, but like to spend money on neatly trimmed gras golfclub style for the white kids.

(and yes, i know that both school get paid by different budgets, but the principle holds).

But with your way of thinking i think Germany doesn´t have enough affirmative action....

best regards
Thomas


Some truth to what you say, However, you can dump all the money you want into inner city schools with black children will do no good if the kids have no discipline and do not want to learn and are disruptive in the class and ruin it for those who do want to learn. I have seen blacks that strive to learn and their own peers strike them down and keep them down telling the kids that want to achieve they are uncle toms. Until you have kids that have some semblance of a stable home life and a parent (would be better to have a mother and father) but a parent who is actively engaged in their child's life you are never going to get anywhere. There is a reason where I live Memphis that most of the people I work with put their kids in private school. Has nothing to do with race it has everything to do with having their kids in an environment where kids who want to learn can learn without the BS that is allowed in public schools today.


I've seen white kids acting the same way?

So, what's your point? Is the point that you're simply a racist?
 
D L X
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Re: White man tortured accused of Trump supporter

Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:03 am

NoTime wrote:
D L X wrote:
NoTime wrote:

No, using my logic, Obama is responsible for a little less than ~1,250 pts per year. The optimism of the upcoming Trump administration is responsible for more than that in roughly two months time. :D

I'm confused.

Who is the president? Like right now, today?


I'm guessing you don't spend much time watching the market... :lol:

Hey NoTime,

did you notice that now that the Trump presidency is becoming a reality, the Dow has faded and erased its gains?


https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-stock-ind ... tml?ref=gs


#MAGA.
 
stratosphere
Topic Author
Posts: 2029
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Re: White man tortured accused of Trump supporter

Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:01 am

Hillis wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

Right... there are cultures out there that don´t like having money and living a good life. Got that. Black people and Latinos are poor and not in corporate Boardrooms because they don´t like money. Probably because they are lazy or stupid or something, ask you local KKK....

And they are all Americans, their culture is American.

Go to DeWitt, MI HIghschool in very white america and compare that to a school in downtown Lansing, which is very black in comparison .... seems that the people in Charge of educating children have much less interests in spending money on educating black children, but like to spend money on neatly trimmed gras golfclub style for the white kids.

(and yes, i know that both school get paid by different budgets, but the principle holds).

But with your way of thinking i think Germany doesn´t have enough affirmative action....

best regards
Thomas


Some truth to what you say, However, you can dump all the money you want into inner city schools with black children will do no good if the kids have no discipline and do not want to learn and are disruptive in the class and ruin it for those who do want to learn. I have seen blacks that strive to learn and their own peers strike them down and keep them down telling the kids that want to achieve they are uncle toms. Until you have kids that have some semblance of a stable home life and a parent (would be better to have a mother and father) but a parent who is actively engaged in their child's life you are never going to get anywhere. There is a reason where I live Memphis that most of the people I work with put their kids in private school. Has nothing to do with race it has everything to do with having their kids in an environment where kids who want to learn can learn without the BS that is allowed in public schools today.


I've seen white kids acting the same way?

So, what's your point? Is the point that you're simply a racist?


Yeah typical liberal response. Everything I said was dead on but because like all liberals you didn't like what I said i am a racist. Whatever * FACEPALM*
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
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Re: White man tortured accused of Trump supporter

Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:20 am

tommy1808 wrote:
And they are all Americans, their culture is American.


You have no idea how out of touch you are. Baffling how you think you know this much about the US from 5,000 miles away when you give these windows of cluelessness.

In the last 4 years, I have been personally involved in 2 elementary schools in different school districts, 3 miles apart. One is 75% Latino, the other 75% Asian. The differences are incredible. One is ranked 2 of 10 (and dropping), the other ranked 9. One appears to want to assimilate, the other clings strongly to ESL (learning in their language). One has had a bully problem for years and chasing expensive, vague 'Baccalaureate' doublespeak to fix it, the other has music classes.
These are just some of the real world truths in America that you can't read on the internet, don't know and as such makes your many opinions on the matter quite uninformed. To claim that all in the US operate as one culture is just nonsense.
 
YZF101
Posts: 87
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Re: White man tortured accused of Trump supporter

Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:26 am

Hillis wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

Right... there are cultures out there that don´t like having money and living a good life. Got that. Black people and Latinos are poor and not in corporate Boardrooms because they don´t like money. Probably because they are lazy or stupid or something, ask you local KKK....

And they are all Americans, their culture is American.

Go to DeWitt, MI HIghschool in very white america and compare that to a school in downtown Lansing, which is very black in comparison .... seems that the people in Charge of educating children have much less interests in spending money on educating black children, but like to spend money on neatly trimmed gras golfclub style for the white kids.

(and yes, i know that both school get paid by different budgets, but the principle holds).

But with your way of thinking i think Germany doesn´t have enough affirmative action....

best regards
Thomas


Some truth to what you say, However, you can dump all the money you want into inner city schools with black children will do no good if the kids have no discipline and do not want to learn and are disruptive in the class and ruin it for those who do want to learn. I have seen blacks that strive to learn and their own peers strike them down and keep them down telling the kids that want to achieve they are uncle toms. Until you have kids that have some semblance of a stable home life and a parent (would be better to have a mother and father) but a parent who is actively engaged in their child's life you are never going to get anywhere. There is a reason where I live Memphis that most of the people I work with put their kids in private school. Has nothing to do with race it has everything to do with having their kids in an environment where kids who want to learn can learn without the BS that is allowed in public schools today.


I've seen white kids acting the same way?

So, what's your point? Is the point that you're simply a racist?



It is astounding how you throw the "racism" tag around like it is a mantra for you and the bad people that think like you. I suppose it is a mantra. Or a badge of honor, "I called 20 people a racist today - aren't I a good person".

It is people like you that will continue taking America - and most of the western world - down the crapper because of your horribly narrow viewpoints. But that is alright...there is a majority of people....thankfully...that don't espouse your simple, backwards way of thinking. Perhaps it is you who should launder your black sheets - you truly are the equivilant of the black knights...spreading hatred and picking up the spoils afterwards.

Daft people.

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