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salttee
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The illegitimate president

Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:37 pm

On the same day that Senator Feinstein goes public with the charge that Russia affected the outcome of the 2016 election, Reince Priebus goes public asking Obama to: "Step up and quiet Democrats who question Trump's legitimacy."

I don't think he should do it. I think the 2016 election was interfered with by an enemy state. Call a spade a spade. We have to deal with the consequences either way; I believe we'll be better off being honest about it to ourselves. Let the cards fall where they may.

http://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk ... outcome-of
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pow ... bdf4ca019a

What do you think?
 
KLDC10
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Re: The illegitimate president

Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:19 pm

As a private citizen, John Lewis has the same right as anyone else to express an opinion.

As a Representative of the US Congress, he has a responsibility to ensure he chooses his words carefully. Think about how this might look to the rest of the world - someone in a position of power is openly questioning the legitimacy of the President-Elect. Other countries are going to sit up and take note.

This issue is not unique to Mr Lewis, or the Democratic Party. Politicians of all stripes should be more cognizant of the sort of image they present. In many situations, it is better to express an opinion privately and hold your tongue in public. I think this is one of them.

And before anyone jumps on me, of course I fully acknowledge the contribution Mr Lewis has made to the advancement of Civil Rights. However, his comments were misjudged. Terming the President-Elect as illegitimate is an extremely serious charge, and not one which ought be thrown around lightly.
Last edited by KLDC10 on Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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NIKV69
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Re: The illegitimate president

Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:26 pm

salttee wrote:
On the same day that Senator Feinstein goes public with the charge that Russia affected the outcome of the 2016 election, Reince Priebus goes public asking Obama to: "Step up and quiet Democrats who question Trump's legitimacy."

I don't think he should do it. I think the 2016 election was interfered with by an enemy state. Call a spade a spade. We have to deal with the consequences either way; I believe we'll be better off being honest about it to ourselves. Let the cards fall where they may.

http://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk ... outcome-of
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pow ... bdf4ca019a

What do you think?


How was it interfered with? The only thing that was done is emails that were genuine were released to the public. There was no voting intimidation (Like the Black Panthers did) no interfering with machines. No people were prevented from voting. No false information

So basically Russia or whomever hacked the DNC did not interfere in any way with our election. Why you keep reciting a falsehood is beyond me. Other than denial which you really should move on from.

The election could have been held every Tuesday starting from the end of the Primaries and Trump would have won every time.

I know you will recite the illegitimate propaganda daily even as the country thrives and comes out of the stale economy. It furthers the demise the DNC and will be fun to watch.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
wingman
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Re: The illegitimate president

Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:36 pm

Republicans questioned Obama's birthplace and religion for 8 years, led by their current orange-faced Russian puppet, so fuck them.
 
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Dreadnought
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Re: The illegitimate president

Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:50 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
How was it interfered with? The only thing that was done is emails that were genuine were released to the public. There was no voting intimidation (Like the Black Panthers did) no interfering with machines. No people were prevented from voting. No false information

So basically Russia or whomever hacked the DNC did not interfere in any way with our election. Why you keep reciting a falsehood is beyond me. Other than denial which you really should move on from.


Russia is just a convenient excuse. I think this will be standard operating procedure with the left going forward, unless something changes (internally to them - I don't think we can make them more intelligent). No matter who the GOP candidate is, he hand his followers will be accused of being racist, xenophobic, homophobic, driven by hate, etc. If he wins, he will be accused of being illegitimate by whatever excuse available. It happened to GW Bush. Remember Biden saying that if Romney became president black people would be back in chains? Every election going forward Libs are going to drive up fear among the population - if the GOP wins, Blacks will be enslaved again, gays will be rounded up, women will be forced to be barefoot and pregnant, and other such crap. And in this day and age of internet echo chambers some people actually believe the crap and you get situations like we have today. Teens and college students are particularly vulnerable.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
ArmitageShanks
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Re: The illegitimate president

Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:06 pm

If a democrat is elected the republicans will do everything they can do to de-legitimize them. If a republican wins the democrats will do everything to de-legitimize them. Business as usual.

If we can survive a civil war I think we can survive a slightly unusual usual candidate.

Trump is a disgusting person and I think he'll fail terribly but ya'll are some panicky people. Its going to be interesting to look back in 10 years and see how everyone is living and breathing just like always.
 
727LOVER
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Re: The illegitimate president

Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:41 pm

There was a misjudgement in the desire for change,...PLAIN AND SIMPLE


In Wisconsin, Trump got less votes than Romney...so Hillary WELL underperformed Obama


WISCONSIN

2012
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... nsin,_2012

2016
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... nsin,_2016




MICHIGAN

2012
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... igan,_2012

2016
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... igan,_2016



PENNSYLVANIA

2012
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... ania,_2012


2016
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... ania,_2016







wingman wrote:
Republicans questioned Obama's birthplace and religion for 8 years, led by their current orange-faced Russian puppet, so fuck them.



HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA....LOVE THAT :bigthumbsup:


But folks, we need to move forward.

Is he orange? Yes
Is he a buffoon? Yes
But he is the President (come Jan 20, noon EST)

If he soars, then that is good for ALL of us.....if he tanks, well...WE will be ready. Late night television will be VERY entertaining for the next 4 or 8(gasp) years

I'll say this though....all this gloating from some on the right needs to stop...DUMBF**KISTAN T-shirts?...C'MON :roll:
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
NIKV69
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Re: The illegitimate president

Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:44 pm

wingman wrote:
Republicans questioned Obama's birthplace and religion for 8 years, led by their current orange-faced Russian puppet, so fuck them.


Don't forget Hillary questioned it before anyone in the Primary.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
Pyrex
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:09 am

salttee wrote:
I think the 2016 election was interfered with by an enemy state.


It was. But despite all the efforts by the BBC, the U.S. still went against the candidate they favored.
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Hillis
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:25 am

There's nothing legitimate about this, in my mind. I never felt that way about Bush in 2000, even with the SCOTUS interference. But there's just too many things that add up that smell to High Heaven to make this legitimate.

Allegedly, Trump won states that he trailed, and trailed badly in, even up to the last weekend of the campaign, notably, Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. And with all three of those, there are questions about voting improprieties.

The unprofessional and unprecedented move by James Comey, 11 days before the election, releasing information that really had nothing to do with Hillary Clinton's email flap. Even when it happened, many people who had served in Federal Law Enforcement questioned his actions and said they were completely uncalled for. Now, the DOJ is investigating his motives and his moves.

The Hacking of the DNC by Russia during the summer, and Comey's silence on that, as compared to his eagerness to release so-called information that was meant to damage Hillary Clinton's campaign in the final two weeks.

Trump's constant praise of Putin, and the Russian system, even when it was known Russia had hacked the DNC, and his congratulating Russia on doing so.

Wikileak's info dumps that were meant to harm Hillary Clinton's campaign. The FBI and DOJ, along with the CIA, have stated that they were in cohorts with Russia to leak information that could be damaging, even if it wasn't anything that showed any sense of wrongdoing on Clinton's part.

Rudy Giiuliani's hint at the "October Surprise", which ended up being Comey's stunt, giving rise to the suspician that the Trump campaign new what was coming.


All of this just doesn't add up. It never has. Plus the fact Trump lost by 3 million votes in the popular contest, and it makes this stink, to use his own expression, like a swamp. And I do believe sooner or later we will find out that this was all orchestrated to steal the presidency. It's most definitely a sign our freedoms are in great peril in this nation.
 
Hillis
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:27 am

NIKV69 wrote:
wingman wrote:
Republicans questioned Obama's birthplace and religion for 8 years, led by their current orange-faced Russian puppet, so fuck them.


Don't forget Hillary questioned it before anyone in the Primary.


Don't forget that that bullshit was debunked years ago. Perhaps you missed that part. Perhaps you're just not bright enough to realize it.
 
NIKV69
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:33 am

Pyrex wrote:
salttee wrote:
I think the 2016 election was interfered with by an enemy state.


It was. But despite all the efforts by the BBC, the U.S. still went against the candidate they favored.


I will ask a second time.

How was our election "Interfered" with? The hack only exposed actual emails written by the DNC. Words they typed. They got caught "interfering" with the election by giving Hillary an unfair edge in the debates. The hackers did nothing to alter the voting process or suppress votes in any way. Or make up any false information.

So if anything the Hackers helped the election by giving the US people the true words and actions of the DNC. Everyone was allowed to vote and no machines were tampered with.

I await your answer.
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windy95
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:42 am

What do I think? I think that the Russian intervention and interference crap is getting old. Rep Lewis never should of said what he said and received a RTR (Rapid Twitter Response) from the President elect and was reminded about his failures in his district. Once again how did they interfere and how did it change the election? Wikileaks released the emails and no one is questioning the contents of them and that is where your anger should be focused.
 
Pyrex
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:57 am

Hillis wrote:
Allegedly, Trump won states that he trailed, and trailed badly in, even up to the last weekend of the campaign, notably, Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. And with all three of those, there are questions about voting improprieties.


Still with the WI/PA/MI Hail Mary? I thought it went into the Electoral College Hail Mary after the recount fiasco, onto the Counting of the Electoral College Vote in the Senate Hail Mary (which even Biden lost patience with) and then onto the Pissgate Hail Mary? Did I miss any?

Trump actually increased his voting lead in Wisconsin after the recount. They did stop the recount in Michigan after finding significant potential irregularities, but those occurred in districts where Hillary carried 95% of the vote, so were quickly swept under the rug.

NIKV69 wrote:
I will ask a second time.

(...)

I await your answer.


Not sure whose answer you are waiting for, but I actually agree with you... if discussing RT's editorial bent for seven pages is enough proof of Russia's involvement in the elections ( http://reason.com/blog/2017/01/06/repor ... in-us-elec ), then BBC's and Al Jazeera's (both government-owned networks) reporting of Trump's tax returns (also stolen information) is proof of foreign-government intervention in the U.S. elections.
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einsteinboricua
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:01 am

NIKV69 wrote:
So if anything the Hackers helped the election by giving the US people the true words and actions of the DNC.

Everything has two ways to be seen: actively aiding Trump is not the same as passively aiding him. If you tarnish Clinton, you're not necessarily actively helping Trump; simply bringing down one of his opponents. So yes, the hackers did not actively aid the GOP, but when it's a binary choice, bringing down the Democrat is, effectively, aiding the GOP regardless. Maybe people didn't cross party lines; maybe these hackers succeeded in making Democratic voters stay home. But that allowed the GOP to carry a few vital states.

NIKV69 wrote:
Everyone was allowed to vote and no machines were tampered with..

You are assuming that to "interfere" means that you need to tamper the booth, the ballot, and the results themselves. There's also a psychological aspect to this. If you manage to effectively convince someone to switch allegiance or remain neutral, that's interfering. So the DNC material is out. What's to say that the hackers don't have RNC material? Of course the RNC will categorically deny it: they won. They're riding high. But I wouldn't be surprised if inside they're trying to do damage control just in case.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
Okie
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:39 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
Maybe people didn't cross party lines; maybe these hackers succeeded in making Democratic voters stay home. But that allowed the GOP to carry a few vital states.

Say What. The Democrats convinced people to stay home with massively skewed polls, no one else did. Step away from the pipe. The DNC plan was an Massive Epic Failure on every count.
Even LA Times picked up on the skewed polls and the publication lambasted by the DNC because they were calling Trump for the win 6 weeks ahead of the election.
The one "eyeball" news poll I saw had Clinton ahead by 6 points, however the fine print said the sample was 20% more Democrats. That would indicate a 4 point loss. The Democrats were told they had this election in the bag which energized the Trump supporters and the Clinton supporters did not bother to show at the voting booth.

Right now the best I can tell the Democrats are working double overtime to lose more seats in the 2018 election. Everyone involved from Soros, Podesta, Clinton on down are the same people on the same path with the wrong message that lost this election.

Okie
 
Mir
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:00 am

Dreadnought wrote:
Russia is just a convenient excuse. I think this will be standard operating procedure with the left going forward, unless something changes (internally to them - I don't think we can make them more intelligent). No matter who the GOP candidate is, he hand his followers will be accused of being racist, xenophobic, homophobic, driven by hate, etc. If he wins, he will be accused of being illegitimate by whatever excuse available. It happened to GW Bush. Remember Biden saying that if Romney became president black people would be back in chains? Every election going forward Libs are going to drive up fear among the population - if the GOP wins, Blacks will be enslaved again, gays will be rounded up, women will be forced to be barefoot and pregnant, and other such crap.


Spreading irrational fear has been the GOP's SOP since 2008. Remember death panels, anti-Christian persecution? Both BS. How many times in this election cycle did we hear "this is our last chance to save America", as if electing Hillary would bring a permanent end to the country as we know it? Don't act so high and mighty when your side has pulled the same crap for just as long.

Dreadnought wrote:
And in this day and age of internet echo chambers some people actually believe the crap and you get situations like we have today. Teens and college students are particularly vulnerable.


You're trying to justify making it harder for young people to vote, aren't you? Of course your claim is complete BS - ignorance exists in all age demographics, and the Trumpist echo chamber is plenty strong. Classic move of dictators and their supporters: lie, not because you believe it, but because you need it to be true in order to justify the things you want to be true.

NIKV69 wrote:
How was our election "Interfered" with?


A foreign government picked a side in our election, engaged in information theft, and then ran a disinformation campaign that selectively released stories to suit their agenda and used misleading headlines and analysis to make people think there was more in the emails than was actually there. That's unprecedented.

And if Hillary had won and the hacking had come from someplace like Iran and Hillary were now rushing to improve relations with Iran, talking about new special trade agreements and the like, those on the right would be having a fit - don't try to pretend you wouldn't. There would be calls for hearings, investigations, special prosecutors, etc. But we've heard barely a word of concern about Trump's Russia ties from the Trumpists, which is really shameful behavior from the party that loves to act as if they have a monopoly on patriotism.
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Pyrex
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:18 am

Mir wrote:

A foreign government picked a side in our election, engaged in information theft, and then ran a disinformation campaign that selectively released stories to suit their agenda and used misleading headlines and analysis to make people think there was more in the emails than was actually there. That's unprecedented.



But enough about the BBC, what is your take on Russia?
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Dreadnought
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:23 am

Mir wrote:
Spreading irrational fear has been the GOP's SOP since 2008. Remember death panels, anti-Christian persecution? Both BS. How many times in this election cycle did we hear "this is our last chance to save America", as if electing Hillary would bring a permanent end to the country as we know it? Don't act so high and mighty when your side has pulled the same crap for just as long.
.


Sorry, while the GOP has done some of that too, it doesn't hold a candle to what the left does. Look at some of the Meltdowns on Youtube after Trump's win, snowflakes crying that "we're all going to die", "we have to escape", And all the BS about Trump being fascist, KKK, deporting all foreigners etc. Really over the top.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:39 am

Liberal's in India have been battling a similar existential crisis since a semi-literate mass-murderer got elected to high office here. So let me weigh in with my 2 cents.

salttee wrote:
On the same day that Senator Feinstein goes public with the charge that Russia affected the outcome of the 2016 election, Reince Priebus goes public asking Obama to: "Step up and quiet Democrats who question Trump's legitimacy."

I don't think he should do it. I think the 2016 election was interfered with by an enemy state. Call a spade a spade. We have to deal with the consequences either way; I believe we'll be better off being honest about it to ourselves. Let the cards fall where they may.

http://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk ... outcome-of
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pow ... bdf4ca019a

What do you think?


Senator Feinstein has a right to speak his mind. Reince Preibus has a right to speak his mind too.

But is it doing America any good that you question the legitimacy of a democratically elected president?

Trump is president. PERIOD. Liberal's should switch focus now to keeping a close watch on his policies. Attacking his election will cause irreparable damage to American democratic institutions.

Like it or not: Trump is president. And he won the elections. He is to here to stay.
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ArmitageShanks
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:40 am

Remember how dumb people were for calling Obama a Muslim who wanted to destroy America when he was elected? Remember the idiotic Republicans who for years questioned his legitimacy and how "crazy and delusional" they were? "He's going to end the Republic" and all that.

That's happening with the left now. Its the exact same thing. "But this time we have evidence!" Whoever wins the next round will be subject to whatever bullshit thing is popular at the time.

It makes you all look like dummies.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:05 am

This is a perfect example of "you reap what you sow".

Somehow, questioning Obama's legitimacy was tolerated by the GOP (they never asked their members to respect the man or the office itself). it became open season to question all sorts of things, to the point where people still ask to see his credit transcripts. But Trump is elected and suddenly we HAVE to respect the office and all these things on the side that amount to truly questioning the circumstances of Trump's election should be ignored.

No sir. I will respect the office as an institution. I will not respect the man occupying the seat as of January 20th at noon, and will not stop others from voicing their opinions (whatever happened to free speech? or is that reserved only for when Democrats hold power?).
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seb146
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:00 am

Dreadnought wrote:
Mir wrote:
Spreading irrational fear has been the GOP's SOP since 2008. Remember death panels, anti-Christian persecution? Both BS. How many times in this election cycle did we hear "this is our last chance to save America", as if electing Hillary would bring a permanent end to the country as we know it? Don't act so high and mighty when your side has pulled the same crap for just as long.
.


Sorry, while the GOP has done some of that too, it doesn't hold a candle to what the left does. Look at some of the Meltdowns on Youtube after Trump's win, snowflakes crying that "we're all going to die", "we have to escape", And all the BS about Trump being fascist, KKK, deporting all foreigners etc. Really over the top.


Nominating avowed racists and those who say out loud they will strip people of rights instead of some vague Obama quote taken way out of context. Remember "Obama does not do anything because he plays golf" outrage? Remember "Michelle Obama is a whore for showing her shoulders!" outrage? yeah, well, none of that even compares to what is actually going on from the orange menace.

His son-in-law has close ties to Russia. The orange menace team was in contact with Russia. A former brain surgeon is nominated for housing secretary. A home schooled woman is nominated for head of public education. You all say "Obama bad because he hates" but your leader is actually doing and showing it.

Why is the team getting rid of the press corps room? What is the actual replacement for ACA? Who will pay for "the wall"? Hillary not going to jail now?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Dreadnought
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:05 am

seb146 wrote:
Nominating avowed racists and those who say out loud they will strip people of rights instead


See what I mean? You lost me right there. How can you have a rational argument with someone who is not grounded in reality?
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:20 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
This is a perfect example of "you reap what you sow".

Somehow, questioning Obama's legitimacy was tolerated by the GOP

Sorry, but arent "we" better than "them"? Should liberals be indulging in the same name-calling crapfest that has come to define the Right wing politics?


Eye for an eye and everyone goes blind. See the larger picture! Hate the man? Sure! Critique his policies as president? ofcourse!

But lets not practice the kind of birther shit that the other side was known for. We are better than that no?
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seb146
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:27 am

BawliBooch wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
This is a perfect example of "you reap what you sow".

Somehow, questioning Obama's legitimacy was tolerated by the GOP

Sorry, but arent "we" better than "them"? Should liberals be indulging in the same name-calling crapfest that has come to define the Right wing politics?


DAMN RIGHT!! "We should do everything we can to make Obama a one term president" and block and deny and filibuster everything. They loved it when they did it for eight years but God forbid anyone does the exact same thing to them. When Republicans do it, it is patriotic. When Democrats do the exact same thing, Democrats hate America and are shredding the Constitution. I would love to see Democrats adopt a strict Biblical interpretation of law just to watch Republicans' heads explode.

Let's not forget how the orange menace swore up one side and down the other that Obama is illegitimate because he was born in Kenya. Until just a few months ago...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/rei ... =politics&
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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seb146
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:30 am

Dreadnought wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Nominating avowed racists and those who say out loud they will strip people of rights instead


See what I mean? You lost me right there. How can you have a rational argument with someone who is not grounded in reality?


Jeff Sessions, William Johnson, Steve Bannon. Google them and read. Not just the line that Google gives you but the actual article on how they are avowed racists. Jeff Sessions was denied a judge ship under Bush, IIRC, because of his racist views! How am I wrong?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
salttee
Topic Author
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:37 am

BawliBooch wrote:
Sorry, but arent "we" better than "them"? Should liberals be indulging in the same name-calling crapfest that has come to define the Right wing politics?

We are not doing the same thing. There is substance to our assertions. There was no substance to the claims that Obama was not an American citizen or that he is a Muslim.

BawliBooch wrote:
Critique his policies as president? ofcourse!

The salient policy of his was his choice to call for the Russians to hack Hillary's E-mails.

BawliBooch wrote:
Like it or not: Trump is president. And he won the elections. He is to here to stay.

Maybe, maybe not. I bet not.
Last edited by salttee on Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Mir
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:39 am

Pyrex wrote:
Mir wrote:

A foreign government picked a side in our election, engaged in information theft, and then ran a disinformation campaign that selectively released stories to suit their agenda and used misleading headlines and analysis to make people think there was more in the emails than was actually there. That's unprecedented.



But enough about the BBC, what is your take on Russia?


A) The BBC is not the propaganda arm of the UK government
B) Neither the BBC nor the UK government hacked into anything in the US (well, the UK government might have, but they're keeping things quiet as one might expect with espionage instead of leaking to the press - see Point A)

Come on, you're better than this.
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Mir
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:50 am

Dreadnought wrote:
Sorry, while the GOP has done some of that too, it doesn't hold a candle to what the left does. Look at some of the Meltdowns on Youtube after Trump's win, snowflakes crying that "we're all going to die", "we have to escape", And all the BS about Trump being fascist, KKK, deporting all foreigners etc. Really over the top.


Ah yes, YouTube: the bastion of accuracy when it comes to examining the mood of various groups of people. Though it is true you can find some pretty crazy meltdowns there:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88W3hRlMdqE (Very NSFW)
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Kiwirob
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:38 am

salttee wrote:

What do you think?


I think you need to book yourself into a clinic. He won, I don't like it, but the world will continue to spin, I'll put my pants on the same way every day and the sun will continue to shine.
 
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pvjin
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:04 am

It's funny how before the elections you liberals said hacking is impossible, and then suddenly when Clinton lost it became a real possibility.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
WIederling
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:42 am

salttee wrote:
What do you think?


Nothing around that says you can't voice wrong opinions.

Pushing distorted or plain wrong information has been a very popular
feature in US political campaigning ( and elsewhere on the rise too.)

To have a case to stand on you would have to proove
that there was illegal manipulation of the voting process by
a foreign power.

Nobody has been dumb enough to bring that up ( yet ).
Probably because exactly that was done via the easily hackable
voting machine infrastructure.
Then we have the established manipulations via gerrymandering, ...
and selective voter exclusion which seem to touch on a significant part of
the voting public.

But Putin made you vote Trump.
in vein with:
Mc Donalds forced you to burn your privates.
Coca Cola forced you to grow fat.
too short a skirt forced you to repeatedly rape that sweet girl.
Massive case of no brains.
Only animals react unrestrained on instinct.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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zkojq
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:20 pm

Whilst Russia influenced the outcome, it was the Americans who actually voted for Mr Trump so they've really only got themselves to blame.

Dreadnought wrote:
Mir wrote:
Spreading irrational fear has been the GOP's SOP since 2008. Remember death panels, anti-Christian persecution? Both BS. How many times in this election cycle did we hear "this is our last chance to save America", as if electing Hillary would bring a permanent end to the country as we know it? Don't act so high and mighty when your side has pulled the same crap for just as long.
.


Sorry, while the GOP has done some of that too, it doesn't hold a candle to what the left does. Look at some of the Meltdowns on Youtube after Trump's win, snowflakes crying that "we're all going to die", "we have to escape",


Look at this little snowflake in reply #56 who's just so glad that he's able to move abroad to escape Obama's tyranny:
As a dual citizen, I'm glad I have a way out. But I feel very sorry for those who don't.


viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1304819&start=50

Sorry bro, but with the amount of snark in that comment, you really set yourself up for that one. ;) :lol:

Mir wrote:
Though it is true you can find some pretty crazy meltdowns there:

:rotfl:
First to fly the 787-9
 
WIederling
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:50 pm

Dreadnought wrote:
Look at some of the Meltdowns on Youtube after Trump's win, snowflakes crying that "we're all going to die", "we have to escape", And all the BS about Trump being fascist, KKK, deporting all foreigners etc. Really over the top.


Blümchen!

Wearing the wrong tint of rosy glasses you probably did not notice that there has been continuous meltdown,
as you so nicely put it,
on the conservative side ... for the last 8 years.
No Brainfart base enough to keep it away from public consumption.
Murphy is an optimist
 
afcjets
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:17 pm

Mir wrote:
A foreign government picked a side in our election, engaged in information theft, and then ran a disinformation campaign that selectively released stories to suit their agenda and used misleading headlines and analysis to make people think there was more in the emails than was actually there. That's unprecedented.

What disinformation did Russia release?

What headlines in the US did Russia hack?
 
Hillis
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:17 pm

pvjin wrote:
It's funny how before the elections you liberals said hacking is impossible, and then suddenly when Clinton lost it became a real possibility.


Uh, before the election, we were told that hacking HAD happened? Or did you miss that news cycle. Now, if you want to put a legit source on here that says what you say is true, I'll consider it. But if you don't have any, then you better think before you type.

Kiwirob wrote:
salttee wrote:

What do you think?


I think you need to book yourself into a clinic. He won, I don't like it, but the world will continue to spin, I'll put my pants on the same way every day and the sun will continue to shine.


With all due respect, you're not an American, and while you'll be affected by what this idiot does, you won't in a way that many of us in the U.S. will be affected. Easy to criticize when you're on the outside looking in.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:37 pm

Hillis wrote:
With all due respect, you're not an American, and while you'll be affected by what this idiot does, you won't in a way that many of us in the U.S. will be affected. Easy to criticize when you're on the outside looking in.


Trump isn't the real problem, the real problem is the US electorate can't be arsed voting, this is the result, you shouldn't be mad at Trump and his supporters you should be pissed at the 150 million American idiots who stayed home, they are the cause of this, they are the people you should direct your anger towards.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:07 pm

BawliBooch wrote:
Sorry, but arent "we" better than "them"? Should liberals be indulging in the same name-calling crapfest that has come to define the Right wing politics?


Eye for an eye and everyone goes blind. See the larger picture! Hate the man? Sure! Critique his policies as president? ofcourse!

But lets not practice the kind of birther shit that the other side was known for. We are better than that no?

Frankly, we tried 8 years of kumbaya, 6 with a GOP led House and 2 with a completely opposed Congress. While I encourage cooperation across the aisle, I'll turn a blind eye if Democrats adopt the GOP's position of opposing everything, even if it means Trump coming in favor of oxygen. The shoe is in the other foot now. I haven't seen even the slightest hint from Republicans that they want to work with Democrats (no...it's all "let's come together", as in Democrats need to support us). We don't have to stoop to birther nonsense. But if I were minority whip, unless there's a bill where there's an urgent need to compromise, I'd make sure all my members were firmly in line in opposing. The GOP wants to govern? Go right ahead. If we can put a stop, we'll stop it until our concerns are addressed. But otherwise, let voters pass judgement on their actions come November 2018.

When the ACA is chipped and premiums spike BECAUSE of their actions, let there not be a single Democrat vote that caused this. When an agreement with Russia is sent to Congress that affects our military relations with NATO and other allies for worse, let there not be a single Democrat vote. When the Iran deal is broken up and Iranians elect a hardliner who will have Russian and Chinese help with their nuclear program, let there not be a single Democrat vote to impose sanctions. Everything that happens in the next 2 years will be GOP owned. If the world goes downhill, if markets react negatively, if oil spikes, if deficits keep increasing, if the dollar sinks, let it all be GOP owned.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
ltbewr
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:56 pm

An article I read elsewhere made a good point - Donald Trump is the legally elected President of the USA by our Constitution but will never have the moral or political legitimacy of most of America and world.
With that said, I do have a problem with well respected persons like Rep. Lewis who see Trump as President as illegitimate as just going to give more ammo for Trump's supporters and hurt Democrats. I do agree in boycotting appearances at the Inauguration, at any speeches like the State of the Union and others.
Although Hillary Clinton and the Democrats got more overall votes than Trump and the Republicans, they lost not so much due to the Russians, but more about their own failures of economic policy for years, putting up a troubled candidate in Hillary Clinton, too friendly to corporations, failures to deal with the job losses from unfair trade deals, international policy blunders, a bad campaign that didn't show up in WI, MI, PA enough to maybe win the EC vote.
I have deep problems with Trump as our President, I will opposes most of his policies and that already started by the Republicans by word but I will recognize him as holding that office until his term ends by time in 4 years, by death or incapiciation, resignation or Impeachment removal.
 
Hillis
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:16 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Hillis wrote:
With all due respect, you're not an American, and while you'll be affected by what this idiot does, you won't in a way that many of us in the U.S. will be affected. Easy to criticize when you're on the outside looking in.


Trump isn't the real problem, the real problem is the US electorate can't be arsed voting, this is the result, you shouldn't be mad at Trump and his supporters you should be pissed at the 150 million American idiots who stayed home, they are the cause of this, they are the people you should direct your anger towards.


Maybe you're right, but I also know that Hillary Clinton got more votes from Americans who did vote than Donald Trump did, and it wasn't even close. I see far too many things that happened, especially from about May onward, that tell me that something isn't right with the election, from Trump's encouraging Russia to hack, to Comey's intervention, to how states that were outside the margin of error, namely Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, suddenly went for Trump. Coincidence? Maybe, but I don't believe in coincidences on that scale.
 
afcjets
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:51 pm

Hillis wrote:

Maybe you're right, but I also know that Hillary Clinton got more votes from Americans who did vote than Donald Trump did, and it wasn't even close. I see far too many things that happened, especially from about May onward, that tell me that something isn't right with the election


Clearly Putin got in his time machine, traveled back to 1787, and hacked the US Constitution, creating the electoral college to help elect Donald Trump. He also hacked Hillary's brain and told her to ignore states, ignore her husband's advice, put a server in her bathroom and programmed her to say half of Trump's supporters are deplorable human beings. He also caused her to be lazy on the campaign trail, caused her to faint, and to not make herself available to the press. He also hacked her more of the same message, Obama policies lost PROFOUNDLY every time they were on the ballot without him. He also framed the DNC by hacking DNC/CNN (same thing) hack Donna Brazille and had her leak questions to Hillary so their energized candidate Bernie Sanders who had a chance of winning would lose the primary. He also hacked Hillary's arrogant and smug debate performances and put that smirk on her face so many Americans would be turned off by her. Putin must be stopped!
 
WIederling
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:29 pm

Hillis wrote:
Maybe you're right, but I also know that Hillary Clinton got more votes from Americans who did vote than Donald Trump did, and it wasn't even close.


Rather irrelevant, isn't it?

The election modalities are well known.
Everybody should know that it is not an election by accumulated absolute numbers of candidate votes.

Did someone ever compute the worst case for "accumulated votes per candidate" delta in one direction
to still potentially achieve an outcome in the other direction?
Murphy is an optimist
 
Kiwirob
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:38 pm

Hillis wrote:

Maybe you're right, but I also know that Hillary Clinton got more votes from Americans who did vote than Donald Trump did, and it wasn't even close. I see far too many things that happened, especially from about May onward, that tell me that something isn't right with the election, from Trump's encouraging Russia to hack, to Comey's intervention, to how states that were outside the margin of error, namely Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, suddenly went for Trump. Coincidence? Maybe, but I don't believe in coincidences on that scale.


Meh I don't see it that way, many people simply didn't vote and Trump played the game better than Hillary, so he played dirty, and the Russians spilled the beans on how she shafted Sanders, but he still won and you just have to accept that regardless of how you feel.
 
NIKV69
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:41 pm

afcjets wrote:
Mir wrote:
A foreign government picked a side in our election, engaged in information theft, and then ran a disinformation campaign that selectively released stories to suit their agenda and used misleading headlines and analysis to make people think there was more in the emails than was actually there. That's unprecedented.

What disinformation did Russia release?

What headlines in the US did Russia hack?


None, I asked twice how Russia interfered in our election and nobody here will answer. Mostly because they can't. Russia didn't do anything but expose Donna Brazile's plan to tilt the debates in Hillary's favor because she knew Donald would destroy her. Exposed how Podesta really is. Etc. All truth. Nothing made up or any false info. No interference whatsoever but since they can't handle how bad a candidate Hillary was or that the country has given up on the socialism experiment there has to be a straw man. Someone to blame. It's always the other guys fault. That is the thing with liberals. It's never their fault. They play the victim so well.

ArmitageShanks wrote:
Remember how dumb people were for calling Obama a Muslim who wanted to destroy America when he was elected? Remember the idiotic Republicans who for years questioned his legitimacy and how "crazy and delusional" they were? "He's going to end the Republic" and all that.

That's happening with the left now. Its the exact same thing. "But this time we have evidence!" Whoever wins the next round will be subject to whatever bullshit thing is popular at the time.

It makes you all look like dummies.


He, Pelosi, Reid and Murray tried all they could to end this country as we know it. The 2010 wave election saved us.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
Kiwirob
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:45 pm

WIederling wrote:

Rather irrelevant, isn't it?

The election modalities are well known.
Everybody should know that it is not an election by accumulated absolute numbers of candidate votes.

Did someone ever compute the worst case for "accumulated votes per candidate" delta in one direction
to still potentially achieve an outcome in the other direction?


It's mathematically possible to win the US presidential election by winning less than 25% of the popular votes, I'm sure if that was ever the case things would change pretty damn quick.
 
727LOVER
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:55 pm

Very good reading

http://observer.com/2017/01/democrats-n ... elections/


Although I don't agree Dems have won 3 of the last 10

1998 Dems
2000 Tie
2002 Reps
2004 Reps
2006 Dems
2008 Dems
2010 Reps
2012 Dems
2014 Reps
2016 Reps
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
Hillis
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:41 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Hillis wrote:

Maybe you're right, but I also know that Hillary Clinton got more votes from Americans who did vote than Donald Trump did, and it wasn't even close. I see far too many things that happened, especially from about May onward, that tell me that something isn't right with the election, from Trump's encouraging Russia to hack, to Comey's intervention, to how states that were outside the margin of error, namely Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, suddenly went for Trump. Coincidence? Maybe, but I don't believe in coincidences on that scale.


Meh I don't see it that way, many people simply didn't vote and Trump played the game better than Hillary, so he played dirty, and the Russians spilled the beans on how she shafted Sanders, but he still won and you just have to accept that regardless of how you feel.


I don't have to "accept" anything, with all due respect. I think the guy won dirty; I think he won underhanded; and I think a foreign government helped get them there. And I think he'll sell America out to Russia to line his pockets and that of his kids.
 
Pyrex
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Re: The illegitimate president

Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:52 pm

Mir wrote:

A) The BBC is not the propaganda arm of the UK government


Technically you are right (they are the propaganda arm of one of the two main parties in the UK), but only because the Labour Party managed to shoot themselves in the foot so badly by voting in an unelectable Leftist kook that they all but guaranteed a Tory hold in government for the foreseeable future.

Mir wrote:
B) Neither the BBC nor the UK government hacked into anything in the US (well, the UK government might have, but they're keeping things quiet as one might expect with espionage instead of leaking to the press - see Point A)


The BBC gladly reports on stolen information (like Trump's tax returns) every day - the actual source of the theft is irrelevant.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
dragon-wings
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Re: The illegitimate president

Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:26 am

Did anyone read Trump's tweet in response to John Lewis?

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 0407473153
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 7956383744

Trump thinks because Lewis is black his district is falling apart and crime ridden! :roll:
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano

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