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94717
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Brexit - UK on WTO

Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:22 pm

With UK likely loosing access to singel market and move to WTO trade, what will be the process for UK to rejoin the WTO as singel member? Will other WTO members have a veto or will it be simple?
 
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Dreadnought
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Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:32 pm

olle wrote:
With UK likely loosing access to singel market and move to WTO trade, what will be the process for UK to rejoin the WTO as singel member? Will other WTO members have a veto or will it be simple?


The UK is already a single member of the WTO (as are all the other EU countries, and as is the EU itself). Non-issue.

On a related point, the EU is trying to tell the UK that the UK is not allowed to negotiate with other countries any sort of trade deals until the UK actually leave the EU. I really hope that the UK tells the EU where to insert that demand. There is nothing wrong with negotiating deals, even if their validity is postponed until after Brexit.
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:24 pm

Dreadnought wrote:
On a related point, the EU is trying to tell the UK that the UK is not allowed to negotiate with other countries any sort of trade deals until the UK actually leave the EU. I really hope that the UK tells the EU where to insert that demand. There is nothing wrong with negotiating deals, even if their validity is postponed until after Brexit.

That's kind of like an employer forbidding an employee from seeking out job offers because they still work for them. Except the EU has no legal force to tell the UK what to do. It can't enact trade deals on its own while a member of the EU, but those deals can be activated immediately upon exit from the single market.
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LTenEleven
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Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:03 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Dreadnought wrote:
On a related point, the EU is trying to tell the UK that the UK is not allowed to negotiate with other countries any sort of trade deals until the UK actually leave the EU. I really hope that the UK tells the EU where to insert that demand. There is nothing wrong with negotiating deals, even if their validity is postponed until after Brexit.

That's kind of like an employer forbidding an employee from seeking out job offers because they still work for them. Except the EU has no legal force to tell the UK what to do. It can't enact trade deals on its own while a member of the EU, but those deals can be activated immediately upon exit from the single market.


Of course, the UK would first need to find some capable negotiators...

Guess who said this a few months ago:

April 2016: "It is tempting to look at developing countries' economies, with their high growth rates, and see them as an alternative to trade with Europe. But just look at the reality of our trading relationship with China - with its dumping policies, protective tariffs and industrial-scale industrial espionage. And look at the figures. We export more to Ireland than we do to China, almost twice as much to Belgium as we do to India, and nearly three times as much to Sweden as we do to Brazil. It is not realistic to think we could just replace European trade with these new markets."

"And while we could certainly negotiate our own trade agreements, there would be no guarantee that they would be on terms as good as those we enjoy now. There would also be a considerable opportunity cost given the need to replace the existing agreements - not least with the EU itself - that we would have torn up as a consequence of our departure."
 
94717
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Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:14 pm

As I understand it UK have full right to negotiating and the UK government expressed it like "on the back of the paper" but cannot sign any before leaving the current regime. I do not believe you can start new employment before your last day of another.
 
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Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:15 pm

Also do not EU has quotas of products like farming products that will have different tariffs under WTO rule? How will they be divided between UK and the EU27?
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:21 pm

LTenEleven wrote:
Anyone want to guess who said the above in April 2016?


Yes, we know who said that before the EU Referendum vote. Now, what's your point?
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LTenEleven
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Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:41 pm

scbriml wrote:
LTenEleven wrote:
Anyone want to guess who said the above in April 2016?


Yes, we know who said that before the EU Referendum vote. Now, what's your point?


People should not have too many dreams about the positive impact of whatever new trade deals the UK manages to negotiate.

The odds are stacked against the UK ... from the perspective of what the UK can offer, from what other States may want, from trade negotiation experience, and based on the experience of other European but non-EU countries presently free to negotiate trade deals with the rest of the world.
 
Derico
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Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:10 am

Dreadnought wrote:
olle wrote:

On a related point, the EU is trying to tell the UK that the UK is not allowed to negotiate with other countries any sort of trade deals until the UK actually leave the EU. I really hope that the UK tells the EU where to insert that demand. There is nothing wrong with negotiating deals, even if their validity is postponed until after Brexit.


I would tend to agree, but the main point is rather moot, since ironing out trade deals between "large economies" (top 30 or 40) , on average takes over 5 years.
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Dreadnought
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Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:17 am

Derico wrote:
I would tend to agree, but the main point is rather moot, since ironing out trade deals between "large economies" (top 30 or 40) , on average takes over 5 years.


Only when the negotiators of each party want it to take that long (It's job security). There is no reason why the US and the UK can't hammer out a free trade agreement in a week or two, if they really want to.
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Derico
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Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:38 am

Dreadnought wrote:
Derico wrote:
I would tend to agree, but the main point is rather moot, since ironing out trade deals between "large economies" (top 30 or 40) , on average takes over 5 years.


Only when the negotiators of each party want it to take that long (It's job security). There is no reason why the US and the UK can't hammer out a free trade agreement in a week or two, if they really want to.


Trade deals involve the tacit and public approval of dozens of economic and trade organizations within those countries, from farmers to auto-makers, to bankers, to fishermen, to importers of electronic goods, even healthcare (since imports of certain foods or medicindes with different standards from a newly free-trading country affect medical insurance). It is massively complicated. Even if it was just Trump and May. But you are talking about 1/3 of a billion people and 17 trillion Euros in output. 2 weeks... I don't think so.
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Dreadnought
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Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:44 am

Derico wrote:
Trade deals involve the tacit and public approval of dozens of economic and trade organizations within those countries, from farmers to auto-makers, to bankers, to fishermen, to importers of electronic goods, even healthcare (since imports of certain foods or medicindes with different standards from a newly free-trading country affect medical insurance)


It has to be approved by Congress (at least on this side of the pond). And the simpler it is, the easier that will be. A big complicated document invites special interests to insert their pet projects. A simple one is harder to hide crap in.

Imagine this. Country A and Country B agree that no physical goods with > 80% domestic content shall be free of any and all import duties. Domestic content shall be defined according to WTO standards. Any product with less than 80% domestic content shall be subject to duties at 50% of WTO standards. Something similar for services. Visa-Free travel for citizens of each country for work and tourism for stays of up to 3 months. Tax territoriality shall apply. Disputes shall be under the jurisdiction of the defendant.

There you go, basic rules in one paragraph. Lawyers will expand that to 10 or 20 pages. No special deals for anyone, no exemptions - i.e. fair for everyone.

Remember that one of the greatest legal documents of our age, the US Constitution, rests on just a few pages. There is no need for 1000+ page documents - unless the writers want to hide shit in it.

Derico wrote:
It is massively complicated. Even if it was just Trump and May. But you are talking about 1/3 of a billion people and 17 trillion Euros in output. 2 weeks... I don't think so.


It does not need to be. It is a statement of basic rules and principles, and defines how disputes shall be handled.
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Derico
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Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:39 am

Let's assume you are correct. In the real world though: Can it be done without Harakiri on the part of the politicians involved?

The sad part is, people rail about how complicated politicians make things, but a great part of that reason is that those same people, the citizens, want to stake out little niches. Thousands of little different niches, thousands of pages. And in fact it is not the common people generally who are the worst offenders, it is the large corporations, which do not play by the same rules, in fact are usually above laws. On that point Trump is correct, but that is something that has been known for a long time and little is done (in fact it is encouraged).

If hypothetically May and Trump signed that deal, a lot of the Trump supporters would be incensed, especially if it happened this quickly. The average Trump supporter's Kryptonite is Free Trade. They would be outraged about a deal, even with the UK, and even if the two economies completely complement each other.
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94717
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Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:41 pm

Well Trump has given instructions that trade deals can easily be signed as long as they give advantage to US.

I suppose that May will have easy to sign trade deal as long as it gives adtantage to UK.

Have the discussions UK India in fresh mind, why did not UK accept the proposals from India (including free movement) and it in one second opens a > 1 billion people market to UK business?
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:24 pm

Nowadays not that many things have 80% local content. And I agree that people want to be protected, even in the UK. For example do UK consumers want to see a watering down of food safety and animal welfare laws as the price of a quick trade deal with the US ? You know, chlorine-washed chicken, hormone-treated beef, all that good stuff ?
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LJ
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Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:24 pm

olle wrote:
Well Trump has given instructions that trade deals can easily be signed as long as they give advantage to US.
I suppose that May will have easy to sign trade deal as long as it gives adtantage to UK.


Hence why any trade deal (also an USA - UK deal) will take so many years....

Derico wrote:
Trade deals involve the tacit and public approval of dozens of economic and trade organizations within those countries, from farmers to auto-makers, to bankers, to fishermen, to importers of electronic goods, even healthcare (since imports of certain foods or medicindes with different standards from a newly free-trading country affect medical insurance). It is massively complicated. Even if it was just Trump and May. But you are talking about 1/3 of a billion people and 17 trillion Euros in output. 2 weeks... I don't think so.


In addition you need a legal framework which decides on how to deal with trade disputes and disputes in general. This creates a lot of legal documents and will take time to get it done.

Dreadnought wrote:
Imagine this. Country A and Country B agree that no physical goods with > 80% domestic content shall be free of any and all import duties. Domestic content shall be defined according to WTO standards. Any product with less than 80% domestic content shall be subject to duties at 50% of WTO standards. Something similar for services. Visa-Free travel for citizens of each country for work and tourism for stays of up to 3 months. Tax territoriality shall apply. Disputes shall be under the jurisdiction of the defendant.

There you go, basic rules in one paragraph. Lawyers will expand that to 10 or 20 pages. No special deals for anyone, no exemptions - i.e. fair for everyone.


You clearly haven't worked in an environment where you have to set up requirements or regulation. Only your sentence "Disputes shall be under the jurisdiction of the defendant." will create at least 10 pages of text ensuring that the term "jurisdiction of the defendant" is properly defined and that this sentence doesn't create loopholes which may be used against certain (group of) companies, not to mention if the defendant is a nation state. Moreover, those 10 pages of text must ensure that the burden to file a compliant isn't too high.

However, the most pages will have to be written on the definition of a product or service and its (safety) standards (when applicable). This part will be well over 20 pages (more around 500, if not more). Taxation will be a good second in generating documents.
 
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Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:41 am

I have impression that the current UK government do not either listens to expertise or don't have expertise.

EU Canada trade agreement, between good friends with similar economic level took much more then 5 years.

To make US UK agreement in 3 month will mean May and Boris standing in the white house saying "YES SIR, WE AGREE SIR"
 
PanHAM
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Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:55 am

Governments driven by a populistic vote in a Referendum don't have exertise and if, they have to act against their better knowledge. The Brits are bound for a couple of surprises nobody has told them before voting on Exit.
That will be for instance that they will lose easy Access on a market of about 470 Million People. They can still sell on that market but will Need a EU based importer peddling their goods. Even worse, they still will have to comply with all These EU rules and regulations they thought they could Exit.
What they won'Ät have although is cheap labour. Who will pick the strawberries once all the Poles have been kicked out and are not even allowed in as seasonal workers? They could enter into a free trade Agreement with india. The Indian Population in the UK would love that (the Indian market is not 1 Billion but about 350 Million middle clarr who could afford afford UK made goods) . The Indians would handle that trade on both Ends, manufacturing, Import, Export wholesale and retail, all bases covered.
The Commonwealth won't be much better as an asset, in reality, the UK outside the EU is of Little worth to the Commonwealth countries, having closed an easy Access to the EU.
There is still time to Exit the Brexit and educate the voters, tell them what the reality means. The better ediucated will have gotten the message already.
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PanHAM
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Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:56 am

PanHAM wrote:
Governments driven by a populistic vote in a Referendum don't have expertise and if, they have to act against their better knowledge. The Brits are bound for a couple of surprises nobody has told them before voting on Exit.
That will be for instance that they will lose easy Access on a market of about 470 Million People. They can still sell on that market but will Need a EU based importer peddling their goods. Even worse, they still will have to comply with all These EU rules and regulations they thought they could Exit.
What they won'Ät have although is cheap labour. Who will pick the strawberries once all the Poles have been kicked out and are not even allowed in as seasonal workers? They could enter into a free trade Agreement with india. The Indian Population in the UK would love that (the Indian market is not 1 Billion but about 350 Million middle clarr who could afford afford UK made goods) . The Indians would handle that trade on both Ends, manufacturing, Import, Export wholesale and retail, all bases covered.
The Commonwealth won't be much better as an asset, in reality, the UK outside the EU is of Little worth to the Commonwealth countries, having closed an easy Access to the EU.
There is still time to Exit the Brexit and educate the voters, tell them what the reality means. The better ediucated will have gotten the message already.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
tommy1808
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Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:38 am

Hi,

apparently the UK government still has to wrap their head about the fact that financial long term commitments made to other EU countries don´t just disappear by leaving the European Union, but have to be met until the commitment runs out.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles ... rce-battle

I would also suggest France and Germany demand their 150 Billion EUR or so back they paid on behalf of the UK into the EU budget, since those payments where made on the commitment to stay in the EU, and therefore taking the money and leaving the EU is simple fraut.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Dano1977
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Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:47 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Hi,

apparently the UK government still has to wrap their head about the fact that financial long term commitments made to other EU countries don´t just disappear by leaving the European Union, but have to be met until the commitment runs out.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles ... rce-battle

I would also suggest France and Germany demand their 150 Billion EUR or so back they paid on behalf of the UK into the EU budget, since those payments where made on the commitment to stay in the EU, and therefore taking the money and leaving the EU is simple fraut.

best regards
Thomas


Show me the law or treaty that says we have to pay?

I saw this analogy on another forum and I like it,

A Golf Club signing contracts to build a new club house, but finding that they can no longer afford to do so once one of the wealthiest members has resigned.

What they appear to be saying is that the because the commitment was made while the person in question was still a member, that he / she has an obligation to make up the funding shortfall. Furthermore, the amount to be paid is the only topic up for negotiation; only once this has been agreed will the Golf Club discuss terms for future access to the club house for the departing member (at which point, of course, this individual will have no leverage).

If I were the departing Golf Club member I would tell the committee to 'Jog On'... They either discuss the future relationship in it's entirety, or look for alternative funding.
The average EU official - he has the organising ability of the Italians, the flexibility of the Germans and the modesty of the French. And that's topped up by the imagination of the Belgians, the generosity of the Dutch.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:18 am

In the article a Brexiter says there is no "one-off levy" to leave in the treaties. He's right, but that's not what is being discussed at all. It is easy enough to understand that you can't leave the EU from one day to the next, without any cost, just like you can't leave your rented flat and expect not to pay the current month's rent.
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tommy1808
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Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:24 am

Dano1977 wrote:
Show me the law or treaty that says we have to pay?


Just about any law regarding debts? Or can you name a single one that allows you to quit a contract just because you don´t want to pay for it anymore?

I saw this analogy on another forum and I like it,


Apples and Oranges. Not the EU (=golf club) made a commitment, but the UK (golf club member) made it. To say in your analogy, that member promises to pay for the new club house and x% of its running costs, and then leaves the Club after it was build and they where using it, without the Club being able to get out of those costs.
Or in the real world: The UK used the labor of EU employees, but now refused to pay its share of their retirement costs.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
UltimoTiger777
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Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:03 pm

tommy1808 wrote:

I would also suggest France and Germany demand their 150 Billion EUR or so back they paid on behalf of the UK into the EU budget, since those payments where made on the commitment to stay in the EU, and therefore taking the money and leaving the EU is simple fraud


In the 44 years the UK has been a member of the EEC/EU, there's only been one year (1975) where it received more in cash from EEC/EU than it paid in (that's including the rebate and any other negotiated refunds).

http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ ... fullreport

You actually have no idea what "fraud" is do you Thomas?

tommy1808 wrote:

Just about any law regarding debts? Or can you name a single one that allows you to quit a contract just because you don´t want to pay for it anymore?


While not paying any outstanding commitments would be undesirable and detrimental to future good relations, if the EU won't give us a fair deal that benefits both sides, there is physically very little you can do to stop us walking away and not paying anything. Remember we're not talking about a dispute between two companies or private citizens, we're talking about sovereign states, where things do work a little differently (bit like how nations can run large deficits in spending but the average person on the street can't):

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -say-lords

tommy1808 wrote:
Or in the real world: The UK used the labor of EU employees, but now refused to pay its share of their retirement costs.


This point fails on a few reasons:
1-The workforce of the UK is overwhelmingly made up of British citizens and not people who have emigrated here from other EU states.
2-There is no homogeneous body known as "EU employees". A Polish builder in the UK and a French schoolteacher here are not part of some giant unified labour force that all answer to a single organisation. They are private citizens employed in different fields by different employers. They are not necessarily employed by the EU.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:14 pm

UltimoTiger777 wrote:
You actually have no idea what "fraud" is do you Thomas?


Of course, taking money and not deliver what you said you would. In this case the UK got ~5 Billion EUR from France and Germany for staying in the EU. Since they don´t stay, they missrepresented their intentions. They should have to pay those 150 Billion back, half to France, half to Germany.

tommy1808 wrote:
This point fails on a few reasons:
1-The workforce of the UK is overwhelmingly made up of British citizens and not people who have emigrated here from other EU states.
2-There is no homogeneous body known as "EU employees". A Polish builder in the UK and a French schoolteacher here are not part of some giant unified labour force that all answer to a single organisation. They are private citizens employed in different fields by different employers. They are not necessarily employed by the EU.


You are misunderstanding the Point. The EU has lots of Employees working on behalf of the UK,for example because trade negotiations are done by the EU, or simply because the UK being in the EU increases the EUs manpower demand. Those people not just have to get paid, they also need to get Pensions after they retire. There is no reason why the shouldn´t have to pay for those staffers after leaving the EU.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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moo
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Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:39 pm

My goodness you are so ridiculous in your arguments.

tommy1808 wrote:
UltimoTiger777 wrote:
You actually have no idea what "fraud" is do you Thomas?


Of course, taking money and not deliver what you said you would. In this case the UK got ~5 Billion EUR from France and Germany for staying in the EU. Since they don´t stay, they missrepresented their intentions. They should have to pay those 150 Billion back, half to France, half to Germany.


Show me the "in perpetuity" clause of the EU treaties. You cant because there isnt one - so your prattling here is simply laughable.

tommy1808 wrote:

You are misunderstanding the Point. The EU has lots of Employees working on behalf of the UK,for example because trade negotiations are done by the EU, or simply because the UK being in the EU increases the EUs manpower demand. Those people not just have to get paid, they also need to get Pensions after they retire. There is no reason why the shouldn´t have to pay for those staffers after leaving the EU.

best regards
Thomas


So? The rest of the EU can pick up that tab, because thats how this works, regardless of your contortions - just because you employ someone for a period, that does make you responsible in perpetuity for any obligation. The UK paid those EU employees for the past 40 years, and we paid their pension contributions - now we are parting ways, we no longer have any obligation to future wages or pension contributions. Their pensions dont disappear because the UK is leaving the EU, they still benefit from our prior contributions.

You seem to have some huge misconceptions about obligations - moral, ethical, contractual or anything else.
 
UltimoTiger777
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Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:53 pm

tommy1808 wrote:

Of course, taking money and not deliver what you said you would. In this case the UK got ~5 Billion EUR from France and Germany for staying in the EU. Since they don´t stay, they missrepresented their intentions. They should have to pay those 150 Billion back, half to France, half to Germany.


UK government policy has always been to stay in the EU and that only changed June of last year after a public vote that was well known about in advance. No misrepresentation there.

If I stop using a subscription service, I don't get access to it anymore but nor do I get to claim back any money already spent. The same would apply to the EU. It doesn't get to have back money that it already legally handed over in accordance with all the mechanisms that are in place. There is no clause in any treaty I am aware of that demands this must be all paid back when leaving.

Also, what is this magical five billion you keep wittering on about? Care to show me some actual figures like I showed you? How do you know it didn't come from the Benelux nations?
 
tommy1808
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Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:39 pm

moo wrote:
Show me the "in perpetuity" clause of the EU treaties. You cant because there isnt one - so your prattling here is simply laughable.


Ms. Thetcher invented the concept with her famous "I want my money back". When the UK can demand their money back, because they didn't get what they thought they would, despite getting exactly what the treaties said they would, every other nation has that right too.

So? The rest of the EU can pick up that tab, because thats how this works, regardless of your contortions - just because you employ someone for a period, that does make you responsible in perpetuity for any obligation. The UK paid those EU employees for the past 40 years, and we paid their pension contributions - now we are parting ways, we no longer have any obligation to future wages or pension contributions. Their pensions dont disappear because the UK is leaving the EU, they still benefit from our prior contributions.


Well, obviously you don't understand how things work around here. Civil servants are employed for life, you can not just lay of the surplus. That is traditionally for 2 reasons:
1. They are free to apply legislation as it is written and can't be squeezed out if they don't agree with the current governments interpretation of that, they do have to get the proper majority to change the legislation. No tread of getting fired. ..
2. In turn for lifelong employ, they give up certain worker rights, like the right to strike. That makes sure the burocracy and services provided are always available.

It has the additional advantage that the higher ups are much cheaper than in the normal labor market for people with similar responsibilities.
That also means that there is no point in paying into health insurance for them, into unemployment insurance or into retirement fonds. Therefore their pensions are paid out of the household. Those EU servants working on behalf of the UK will have to be paid until the day they die. The UK will have to continue paying for those.

UltimoTiger777 wrote:
Also, what is this magical five billion you keep wittering on about? Care to show me some actual figures like I showed you? How do you know it didn't come from the Benelux nations?


because France and Germany are the biggest net contributors.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:19 pm

Clearly giving in to Thatcher's demands was the wrong move. If the UK had left the EU then and there, we would all be much better off. The UK might have even joined again since then !
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Dano1977
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Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:32 pm

So if the EU wants a divorce settlement...

Then It's reasonable to expect that the UK would have a claim to a share of the assets and/or a sum representing the amount that the UK has contributed to?

The final amount (If any) has to be fair and reasonable and non punitive! Just because we are not a member of the club anymore!
The average EU official - he has the organising ability of the Italians, the flexibility of the Germans and the modesty of the French. And that's topped up by the imagination of the Belgians, the generosity of the Dutch.
 
Olddog
Posts: 1636
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:41 pm

Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:46 pm

A lot of non sense talks until UK launch the formal article 50 process. Serious negotiations will start then.
 
wingman
Posts: 4123
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:25 pm

In Dread's alternate reality Trump tells May the UK is buying all our shit at 300% markup plus a bitch slap for the privilege. May tells Trump she'll sign as soon as he gropes her bunny. Voila, trade deal done in 4 minutes.

I bet that strategy isn't too far off the mark for someone like Trump. Watching him close deals is gonna be lotsa fun.
 
UltimoTiger777
Posts: 458
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:19 pm

Re: Brexit - UK on WTO

Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:25 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Ms. Thetcher invented the concept with her famous "I want my money back". When the UK can demand their money back, because they didn't get what they thought they would, despite getting exactly what the treaties said they would, every other nation has that right too.


Except the rebate is applied before the UK gives the money meaning we give less than what we normally would. It doesn't come back after we've paid the money in.

What you're fantasising about is completely different.

tommy1808 wrote:
Well, obviously you don't understand how things work around here. Civil servants are employed for life,


Not in the UK they ain't.

Therefore their pensions are paid out of the household. Those EU servants working on behalf of the UK will have to be paid until the day they die. The UK will have to continue paying for those.


Would that be because they are British citizens and are therefore entitled to a state pension?

tommy1808 wrote:

because France and Germany are the biggest net contributors.


I can think of far more deserving EU member states than Germany or France.

Like Greece, or Britain's centuries old ally Portugal. Or what about Ireland, maybe if we give them the money they can quit crying about 800 years of oppression they keep holding against us?

You're just admitting the whole EU is a charade for some Franco-German power block. I guess it's not Britain that has to get over losing its empire, it's Germany and France!

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