ozglobal
Topic Author
Posts: 2594
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:33 am

Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:32 pm

In Theresa May's speech to GOP-Trump, she just spent 35mins giving an impassioned plea where she threw her "European friends and allies" totally under the bus with endless allusions to how only the US and UK have ever got it, only they have ever stood up to tyranny, only they have ever pulled their weight on defence, and that they have been alone in every other aspect of global leadership. She speaks of the UK, in contrast to other European countries, as being 'truly internationalists,' 'always having looked beyond Europe.'

I can only assume she fully understands she is spurning all genuine friendship with those "European friends and allies." She and her government have obviously calculated that they will fail to get their cake and eat it from the EU on the benefits they want and are judging they are best served by now throwing their lot in with the US against the EU. They seem to be betting on saying goodbye to most of the 60% of their trade that is done with the EU, given the total soul selling she is doing to Trump and the GOP, something that was unthinkable 6 months ago. Watch the obviously forced body language and desperate sell she is doing (those hand gestures and strained voice).

This should dramatically chill the already strained relations between the EU and the UK and lead to very little interest in deal making. Perhaps we should all save some time and jump straight from article 50 and waive the 2 years of negotiation as it seems there is now nothing to negotiate. The UK is legally precluded from negotiating external trade deals until after the exit terms are negotiated, following article 50 activation. They seem to be throwing in the towel on that process. So perhaps, just go now and default to WTO trade terms, do a deal with Donny and forget all other EU treaties.

We are entering a new and dangerous chapter of world history. Ironic that she and fellow MPs participated in a parliamentary debate not so long ago as to whether D Trump should be totally banded from ever visiting the UK. Then, less than a year ago, she lobbied to stay in the EU. Why should I believe a word of these 'impassioned pleas' and statements on unchanged shared values?

As far as I can tell this is nothing but opportunism with a public school accent, dressed up as a leading position.

To the EU: 'Give us a sweet deal without the responsibilities because you're our friends and its in your own interests. Or, if you don't, we'll make you pay by becoming a corporate tax haven."

To Trump: "We were the only ones who ever really got it. Give us the trade deal we need and we'll lead the free world together. Those Euro's don't get it and can never be relied upon."

Problem: mass communication: the two faced cynicism is a public spectacle.

Full speech:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzAaWhbGIWg
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
NoTime
Posts: 596
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:21 am

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:57 pm

ozglobal wrote:
We are entering a new and dangerous chapter of world history.


I'm not so sure... I mean, the EU has been around in one form or another since, what? The 50's? (And in its present form since the 90's?) This is not so much a new chapter as a return to an old one.

As far as I can tell this is nothing but opportunism...


That's politics, my friend.

With the USA killing TPP and threatening Mexico (and NAFTA), along with Brexit (assuming it actually happens), I think there's probably lots of room for the two nations to support each other quite a bit more. Nothing wrong with setting the stage, so to speak.
 
Airstud
Posts: 4680
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2000 11:57 am

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:35 am

NoTime wrote:
Brexit



Mmmmmmmmmmmm, breakfast...
Pancakes are delicious.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 11833
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:00 am

I'm still not understanding the logic Trump is following in cancelling free trade deals on one hand and offering one on the other.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
NoTime
Posts: 596
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:21 am

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:15 am

Aesma wrote:
I'm still not understanding the logic Trump is following in cancelling free trade deals on one hand and offering one on the other.


I'm not sure he has offered any...?

But, I would assume the logic is that it's a more mutually beneficial agreement if both countries in the agreement are fully developed - including wage and worker laws - and have similar standards of living.
 
User avatar
Pellegrine
Posts: 2300
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:19 am

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:53 am

She's just trying to kiss ass and "go along with history" to prove her own relevancy. She's the "brexit Prime Minister" and she needs to prove her worth. Other top EU powers don't like that Britain broke away, so she reaches out to the Americans. Simple politics.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
User avatar
Dreadnought
Posts: 10202
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:31 pm

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:40 am

Aesma wrote:
I'm still not understanding the logic Trump is following in cancelling free trade deals on one hand and offering one on the other.


There is nothing wrong with free trade among countries that are relatively on the same level, in terms of GDP per capita, both have free floating currencies, respect for intellectual property and so forth. Free trade is great in those cases, because it tends to be more or less balanced, all other things being equal.

But when you have free trade deals with countries who are on very different economic tiers, have artificially pegged currencies, and few intellectual property laws, "free trade" tends to go one way only. Their consumers are too poor to buy American goods in any great quantity, and they become a source of very cheap labor for exports.

This is basic stuff.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 11833
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:10 am

I don't know if it's basic, the US has been championing such deals for decades, and the GOP was at the forefront.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
tommy1808
Posts: 10865
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:19 am

Dreadnought wrote:
Aesma wrote:
I'm still not understanding the logic Trump is following in cancelling free trade deals on one hand and offering one on the other.


There is nothing wrong with free trade among countries that are relatively on the same level, in terms of GDP per capita, both have free floating currencies, respect for intellectual property and so forth. Free trade is great in those cases, because it tends to be more or less balanced, all other things being equal.

But when you have free trade deals with countries who are on very different economic tiers, have artificially pegged currencies, and few intellectual property laws, "free trade" tends to go one way only. Their consumers are too poor to buy American goods in any great quantity, and they become a source of very cheap labor for exports.

This is basic stuff.


You have empirical evidence that is the true causation between things or are you just pointing out a mere correlation? After all US states have free trade between them and are of very different economic levels. The EU countries had an enormous gab when the EU started, some countries where hardly above 3. World level, and now differences are smaller than between US states.....

Can you conclusively or even in macroeconomic theory construct a proof that the US economy would not have done worse without NAFTA?

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8328
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:33 am

I love the accusing of the rest of the world of currency manipulation. Two words.

Quantitative easing

Biggest offenders:

United States
United Kingdom.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
vrbarreto
Posts: 286
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:22 am

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:45 am

Desperate Fishwife....
 
PanHAM
Posts: 9731
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:46 am

I would not sign a free trade or any other Agreement with someone who cancels Agreements when he discovers that America is not first with that Agreement, Not until Trump has proven that he is able to agree to compromises, or, for him to understand, win win situations. That is, an Agreement where both sides make a benefit
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
User avatar
Francoflier
Posts: 4890
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:27 pm

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:51 am

I thought May was smarter than that... I know she wasn't dealt the best hand when she took office, but still.
The amount of trade the UK does with the US is a small fraction of what the trade it does with the EU. I'm really not sure any trade deal with the US would compensate for what they stand to lose by leaving the EU, especially if she makes exit negotiations even harder by antagonizing EU nations altogether...

Dreadnought wrote:
This is basic stuff.


No, it's not. Major international trade deals are not basic, by any measure. They're very complex and their returns and results can not be simply painted with a simplistic stroke, despite what populists and their advocates would want you to believe.

I have not yet seen any evidence that any major negotiated trade deals has not been beneficial for the parties involved. They may not both profit equally from it, but they do profit.
I have a hard time picturing the kind of incompetent negotiator that the US would send to draw up and agree on a trade deal in which his side would lose.
Now, manufacturing may suffer in developed nations, but that is the natural result of globalization, and to which the answer is to move towards more specialized manufacturing and industries and services requiring more skills, and not trying to artificially bring back non-qualified, low paying jobs home.

The same applies for immigration, illegal or not. Most specialists agree in saying immigration is beneficial to a country overall.
Of course, I don't suppose Trump supporters will have noticed that they are maligning immigrants and saying they are 'stealing jobs', while at the same time cheering for the man who says he is going to bring back low-wage jobs from China and Mexico, all amidst a record low unemployment level... Something doesn't fit the picture. Aren't those low-paying jobs the very cause of the anger and resentment? And now the Trumpies want to go tomato picking in the fields and install roof tiles all day long instead of immigrants and expect to be paid $25/hr for it? I just don't get it.

Those sentiments stems from the new populist wave of politicians who would want Americans to believe that every other nation in the World is leeching from the US somehow. Mexico, China, Europe, everyone... Fostering anger and hatred against others, mostly foreigners and foreign nations is the main weapon of a populist, and he achieves that by oversimplifying and giving a skewed picture of complex economic and diplomatic relationships to make voters believe they are detrimental somehow.

'Immigrants are stealing our jobs and sucking off the government's teat', or China has stolen all of our industry', and other kind of idealistic nonsense.
The contender will then offer equally simplistic and feel-good measures such as: 'Let's kick the immigrants out', or 'let's close the borders' to wow the gullible he created anger among.

Except these so-called cures are worse than the disease. Breaking trade, imposing tariffs and closing borders only serve to isolate a country from the international trade. If they get charged from importing from China or Mexico, manufacturers will not magically bring their factories back stateside and suddenly pay their workers 5 times more than what they did abroad. They will try to automate or find ways around the tariffs. Few jobs will be created, and if they are, the will be entry-level jobs with minimum wages, not the kind of jobs you want to create to sustain an advanced economy. The product manufactured, on the other hand, will become more expensive to buy, thus restricting the average purchasing power of the citizens and creating inflation.
And that's not mentioning the disastrous diplomatic consequences and the reciprocal tariffs which hurt the exporting industry.
It's one thing pissing off Mexico, but when Trump starts toying with China, he might find he might not like the effects of the retaliation on the US, no matter how much leverage he thinks he has over China.

That man brings thinks he can bully wasps by bringing a sledgehammer to their nest.
Negotiating international trade and diplomacy takes tact, intelligence and cunningness, none of which I believe mr. Trump possesses.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
TheSonntag
Posts: 4439
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:23 pm

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:10 am

I would urge everybody to calm a bit down and look at the Facts. Ok, the Facts are the Brexit-Queen is responsible for stupid politics, but the majority of britain wanted that.

Just please trigger Art. 50 asap. So we can finally get along without one "Partner" blocking everything.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 3012
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:31 am

ozglobal wrote:
we'll lead the free world together.


How about no? Signed: The free world.
 
vrbarreto
Posts: 286
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:22 am

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:50 am

TheSonntag wrote:
I would urge everybody to calm a bit down and look at the Facts. Ok, the Facts are the Brexit-Queen is responsible for stupid politics, but the majority of britain wanted that.

Just please trigger Art. 50 asap. So we can finally get along without one "Partner" blocking everything.


37% of Britain wanted Brexit.
 
User avatar
KruegerFlaps
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:17 am

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:03 am

vrbarreto wrote:
37% of Britain wanted Brexit.

Maybe. But that is still more than the proportion of the electorate that voted to stay and the proportion of those who had more important things to do rather than vote or couldn't care either way. If all those who mistakenly thought that the remain vote would be greater had actually voted, then the result might have been different. No point crying about split milk.

But at least Parliament now has the opportunity to block the proposed Bill, if it believes that it is in Britain's best interests to do so. So it may be possible that the minority (i.e. those who voted remain) gets its way after all. One thing is guaranteed. Whatever is decided, some people won't like it.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt Speech, 1783
 
Derico
Posts: 4312
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 9:14 am

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:29 pm

I've been thinking about all this and I think it's actually all pretty simple: the United States and Great Britain have joined the grand Race to the Bottom. A race that has been going on for many years right now particularly in developing and emerging markets, but now in the last 8 years the developed world has had to join in too, as the income gaps lessen.

So for all the populist talk from Trump and May, in fact their policies (import tax, lower corporate and export taxes for USA; drastically cut business costs and taxes to attract mainland firms after Brexit in the case of UK), are absolutely nothing new and completely unoriginal. They are 40 years behind the times. These ideas of special tax rates, incentives, etc started in the late 70s and 1980s and have been use by multinationals to set country against country and even province against province, to extract the best possible deal.

All they are doing is doing ”big business' bidding by lowering rates and thus forcing other countries to lower corporate rates. In the end, companies pay nothing, consumers pay more taxes and have less choice, and because public finances are gutted to satisfy the multinationals, the poor, old, and sick suffer from drastically curtailed services.

As for the UK's government, so typical really. They want to "lead the world with the USA" (how about working with all other nations, I don't think many nations want to be lead by London), but then totally abjure the rotten side of that "leadership", like the Iraq War. "Oh no, it wasn't us, it was those United Statesians"... The UK government really is particularly unpalatable to me, so hypocritical always. For example just the other day the British defense minister calling out the Russian carrier "the ship of shame".

I don't remember him calling his own carrier that when they were shocking and awing Baghdad. Just a bit of self-awareness form the government in London, please. This is not a criticism of the people of the UK though, that were opposed to that war.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
UltimoTiger777
Posts: 458
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:19 pm

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:39 pm

KruegerFlaps wrote:
But at least Parliament now has the opportunity to block the proposed Bill, if it believes that it is in Britain's best interests to do so. So it may be possible that the minority (i.e. those who voted remain) gets its way after all. One thing is guaranteed. Whatever is decided, some people won't like it.


Never in this country's history has an entire referendum or election vote been overturned.

To start now when more people voted for both sides than have ever voted for any party in the UK's history would set one of the most unbelievably dangerous precedents ever.

If anything, reversing the decision at this point will probably drive more people to support leaving.

I don't remember him calling his own carrier that when they were shocking and awing Baghdad. Just a bit of self-awareness form the government in London, please. This is not a criticism of the people of the UK though, that were opposed to that war.


Least the UK and US actually made the attempt to avoid collateral damage. Have you ever seen what Russia did in Grozny? Ain't no laser guided smart bombs in that war. Or in Syria for that matter.
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8328
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:06 pm

Least the UK and US actually made the attempt to avoid collateral damage. Have you ever seen what Russia did in Grozny?


Let's not whitewash history

The British army murdered their own countrymen in Northern Ireland and murdered civilians in Yemen. The US army targeted countless civilians in Vietnam.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 10865
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:34 pm

BestWestern wrote:
The US army targeted countless civilians in Vietnam.


and you can still see the results of the use of Chemical weapons. Then again, they refrained from using ballistic missiles at civilian targets, which happened in Grozny.

But then... dead is dead...

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
UltimoTiger777
Posts: 458
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:19 pm

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:08 pm

BestWestern wrote:

The British army murdered their own countrymen in Northern Ireland and murdered civilians in Yemen.


Glad you're doing the proper thing in referring to the people of Northern Ireland as British.

Also, do you not think Yemen today is proof of what happens when sensible people stop running a country and leave it to the asylum dwellers? They'd all be so much happier if we still ran the place.

The US army targeted countless civilians in Vietnam.


Funnily enough, so did North Vietnam but we never hear about that!
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7095
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:23 pm

UltimoTiger777 wrote:
Least the UK ... actually made the attempt to avoid collateral damage.


Naaaaaaaaaa, history suggests otherwise. All is fair in love and war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jallianwala_Bagh_massacre

What about the tower.
 
Olddog
Posts: 1233
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:41 pm

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:02 pm

Teresa May could get a better deal :mrgreen:
When UK was in it wanted a lot of opt-outs, now it is out it wants opt-ins
 
NIKV69
Posts: 12711
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:10 pm

Very glad to see President Trump meeting with her. It brings back memories of Thatcher-Reagan!
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die.
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 6073
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:26 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Very glad to see President Trump meeting with her. It brings back memories of Thatcher-Reagan!


How? Just because the UK's PM is a woman?
 
ozglobal
Topic Author
Posts: 2594
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:33 am

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:33 pm

Now she's wheeling out the Queen for Trump as a sweetener. The UK is losing a lot of respect from me these last months.

So Queen Elizabeth is obliged to host the '@##% grabber.' Desperate times.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/27/polit ... index.html
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
User avatar
AirPacific747
Posts: 9650
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 9:52 am

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:53 pm

Sympathy for the UK is disappearing very quickly these days. I hope they will feel the negative consequences for many decades to come with the way they are stabbing their fellow Europeans in the back.
 
User avatar
Dreadnought
Posts: 10202
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:31 pm

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:52 pm

AirPacific747 wrote:
Sympathy for the UK is disappearing very quickly these days. I hope they will feel the negative consequences for many decades to come with the way they are stabbing their fellow Europeans in the back.


The UK has been a trading country for a thousand years. People who think that they will collapse without the EU are delusional.

The EU should go back to being the European Community that they were until the 1990s. A free trade block, but with each country controlling their own currency, borders etc.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
vrbarreto
Posts: 286
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:22 am

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:15 pm

Pfft.. Britain doesn't have the Empire to sponge off..... No East India company.
 
PhilBy
Posts: 832
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:21 pm

BestWestern wrote:

The British army murdered their own countrymen in Northern Ireland and murdered civilians in Yemen. The US army targeted countless civilians in Vietnam.


Northern Ireland is not and never has been part of Great Britain hence "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"!
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 1763
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:35 pm

Dreadnought wrote:

There is nothing wrong with free trade among countries that are relatively on the same level, in terms of GDP per capita, both have free floating currencies, respect for intellectual property and so forth. Free trade is great in those cases, because it tends to be more or less balanced, all other things being equal.


If it were that 'basic', Canada would have nothing to worry about. Yet here we are.

For what it's worth, free trade and 'America First' are incompatible. While free trade deals may naturally favor one party, imposing conditions to stop that advantage from accruing naturally voids any pretense of 'free'.

The UK will get a trade deal. So will Canada, and probably even Mexico. If he keeps his word, they probably wont be free trade deals, in any sense of the word, but I'm sure that Brexit Britain, the new champion of free trade, will insist that its deal is actually free trade. While importing the hormone-tainted beef and milk in an effort to keep the trade balance acceptable to the U.S.
 
UltimoTiger777
Posts: 458
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:19 pm

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:18 pm

AirPacific747 wrote:
Sympathy for the UK is disappearing very quickly these days. I hope they will feel the negative consequences for many decades to come with the way they are stabbing their fellow Europeans in the back.


That's rich given how much help certain countries got given in Europe after World War II.
 
KLDC10
Posts: 1409
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:15 pm

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:29 pm

AirPacific747 wrote:
Sympathy for the UK is disappearing very quickly these days. I hope they will feel the negative consequences for many decades to come with the way they are stabbing their fellow Europeans in the back.


I'd love to know how refusing to surrender sovereignty to a supra-national organisation constitutes "stabbing their fellow Europeans in the back". Like any other country, Britain has a right to self-determination, as President Trump highlighted today. The British electorate decided that sovereignty was more important than being part of the European "club" (which by the way, according to an article I was reading earlier today on Politico, is headed for yet another crisis involving Greece), a club which appears to be acting as a wannabe-federalist system, steered largely by Germany.

No, I agree with the President. Britain was right to back Brexit.
DC9/MD90/MD11/F70/BAE146
737/738/739/744/748/752/763/772/789
A319/A320/A321/A332/A333/A346/A359
Q400/E170/E175/E190/CS300
 
User avatar
KruegerFlaps
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:17 am

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:09 am

I found it amusing that the Whitehouse had to make several corrections to notices regarding May's visit. They originally spelt the PM's first name Teresa. It is of course Theresa.

Perhaps Trump thought he was meeting a certain actress by the name of Teresa May. He'd possibly be more comfortable meeting her. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -mays-name
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt Speech, 1783
 
tommy1808
Posts: 10865
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:34 am

L410Turbolet wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Very glad to see President Trump meeting with her. It brings back memories of Thatcher-Reagan!


How? Just because the UK's PM is a woman?


Because both ruined their countries for decades to come and were vastly overrated at their time.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
tommy1808
Posts: 10865
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:38 am

UltimoTiger777 wrote:
AirPacific747 wrote:
Sympathy for the UK is disappearing very quickly these days. I hope they will feel the negative consequences for many decades to come with the way they are stabbing their fellow Europeans in the back.


That's rich given how much help certain countries got given in Europe after World War II.


Since the UK was saved by the European Union from bancruptcy and was supported to the tune of 150 billion or so in direct payments from Germany and France, I don't think it is that rich.
Inflation corrected that is more than the entire marshall plan for all Europe. And with Brexit, they basically defrauded the money.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 11833
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:22 am

Dreadnought wrote:
AirPacific747 wrote:
Sympathy for the UK is disappearing very quickly these days. I hope they will feel the negative consequences for many decades to come with the way they are stabbing their fellow Europeans in the back.


The UK has been a trading country for a thousand years. People who think that they will collapse without the EU are delusional.


Being a trading country only works if you're the only one making it, and you have a specialized advantage allowing you to circumvent restrictions in place.

Restrictions are much less today (WTO) and many (most) countries know how to trade. There is no reason to use the UK as a middleman.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
PanHAM
Posts: 9731
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:50 am

Olddog wrote:
Teresa May could get a better deal :mrgreen:



The Name of the Lady is THeresa May- Teresa May is a porn star. But don't worry, the blunder was made by whoever was or wasn't in Charge at the Trump Administration. Safe to say that The Donald knows Teresa better than Theresa.

Back to trading, with the Little help of phones and Computers, both of whoch are available in mobile Versions, trading can be done from any park bench in the sun. All you Need is to know the Basics and the right People. Spelling names correctly helps a lot as well.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
LAH1
Posts: 153
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:24 pm

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:05 am

Not so much to do with Trump but here's why many get confused. Reported by the Telegraph

Britain could be handed an accelerated path to re-join the European Union if it decides to reapply for membership after it has left the bloc, the European Parliament’s chief Brexit negotiator has claimed.

Guy Verhofstadt, a former Belgian prime minister and arch European federalist, said that future British governments would have a way back into Europe if they decided to reverse course after Brexit, possibly even on a fastrack.

Then goes on to say -
Mr Verhofstadt, who is currently fighting a battle with the European Council and European Commission for a seat at the Brexit negotiating table, repeated that the EU was determined that Britain must be made worse off by it’s decision to leave.

Whilst stopping short of calling for a “punitive” deal, Mr Verhofstadt said the EU would be guided by the principle that “you can never have outside the European Union a better status than as member of the European Union”.

And there are still some here who say the threats come from the UK side. The majority of voters think we'll do better outside the Union. Ok. Of course we'll fight for the best position we can, Name one country in the same position that wouldn't. Whether we get it or not is up for grabs, we will have to live with the consequences but threats like those above only make the decision easier.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 11833
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:15 am

LAH1 wrote:
Whilst stopping short of calling for a “punitive” deal, Mr Verhofstadt said the EU would be guided by the principle that “you can never have outside the European Union a better status than as member of the European Union”.

And there are still some here who say the threats come from the UK side. The majority of voters think we'll do better outside the Union. Ok. Of course we'll fight for the best position we can, Name one country in the same position that wouldn't. Whether we get it or not is up for grabs, we will have to live with the consequences but threats like those above only make the decision easier.


He is simply stating the obvious. If there is no benefit to be an EU member then there is no need for the EU. Of course there are benefits, not the same for all countries, that's why you will not like everything. But since what you like might not be what another country likes, it's very similar to any international deal, there are pros and cons.

Brexiteers downplayed the benefits or simply outright lied about the consequences of Brexit, so after that having a reasonable discussion is impossible.

In the UK there was a myriad of voices about what Brexit would mean. Still the case today. In the EU it was always clear and obvious, the EU is an all or nothing deal. The country that least corresponded to that with its exemptions is leaving, that means the EU is even more homogeneous.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
ozglobal
Topic Author
Posts: 2594
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:33 am

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:37 am

KLDC10 wrote:
AirPacific747 wrote:
Sympathy for the UK is disappearing very quickly these days. I hope they will feel the negative consequences for many decades to come with the way they are stabbing their fellow Europeans in the back.


I'd love to know how refusing to surrender sovereignty to a supra-national organisation constitutes "stabbing their fellow Europeans in the back". ......


And I'll be happy to explain it for you a second time. From the OP: In order to suck up to the American's for a deal, lead by a horror of a human being who wants to see the break up of the EU and NATO, she seeks leverage by poring scorn on the her fellow EU members, " ...she just spent 35mins giving an impassioned plea where she threw her "European friends and allies" totally under the bus with endless allusions to how only the US and UK have ever got it, only they have ever stood up to tyranny, only they have ever pulled their weight on defence, and that they have been alone in every other aspect of global leadership. She speaks of the UK, in contrast to other European countries, as being 'truly internationalists,' 'always having looked beyond Europe.'

Get it?
Last edited by ozglobal on Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
User avatar
Dano1977
Posts: 708
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:49 pm

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:37 am

Aesma wrote:
LAH1 wrote:
Whilst stopping short of calling for a “punitive” deal, Mr Verhofstadt said the EU would be guided by the principle that “you can never have outside the European Union a better status than as member of the European Union”.

And there are still some here who say the threats come from the UK side. The majority of voters think we'll do better outside the Union. Ok. Of course we'll fight for the best position we can, Name one country in the same position that wouldn't. Whether we get it or not is up for grabs, we will have to live with the consequences but threats like those above only make the decision easier.


He is simply stating the obvious. If there is no benefit to be an EU member then there is no need for the EU. Of course there are benefits, not the same for all countries, that's why you will not like everything. But since what you like might not be what another country likes, it's very similar to any international deal, there are pros and cons.

Brexiteers downplayed the benefits or simply outright lied about the consequences of Brexit, so after that having a reasonable discussion is impossible.

In the UK there was a myriad of voices about what Brexit would mean. Still the case today. In the EU it was always clear and obvious, the EU is an all or nothing deal. The country that least corresponded to that with its exemptions is leaving, that means the EU is even more homogeneous.


I agree with Mr Verhofstadt. Why should I join a country club with a membership fee of XXXX per year, when I can get a weekend membership for XX but get all the benefits a full fee paying member gets.

I also agree with Mr Trump, why should the US continue to plough money into NATO, when countries like Canada,France,Germany,Italy and Turkey can't meet the 2% target for defence spending.*

* Figures correct on July 8th 2016 - May have changed,

Horses for courses - Pay your fair share be a member of the club - Don't, why should the others pick up the tab.
The average EU official - he has the organising ability of the Italians, the flexibility of the Germans and the modesty of the French. And that's topped up by the imagination of the Belgians, the generosity of the Dutch.
 
ozglobal
Topic Author
Posts: 2594
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:33 am

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:53 am

LAH1 wrote:
Not so much to do with Trump but here's why many get confused. Reported by the Telegraph

....Mr Verhofstadt said the EU would be guided by the principle that “you can never have outside the European Union a better status than as member of the European Union”.

And there are still some here who say the threats come from the UK side. The majority of voters think we'll do better outside the Union. Ok. Of course we'll fight for the best position we can, Name one country in the same position that wouldn't. Whether we get it or not is up for grabs, we will have to live with the consequences but threats like those above only make the decision easier.


It IS only the UK who are making threats. The EU is simply restating what has always been known by the UK: there are a set of rights and duties inside the membership; there is freedom from the duties and the rights outside of membership. KNOWING THIS, the UK voted to leave, chose to forgo the rights and the duties. Now the UK what to start a new deal and the EU warns that, naturally, it can't be the same rights they left behind when they chose to leave behind the duties.

What is remotely difficult to understand? In no way is any of this a threat. It is the UK who is acting and choosing, NOT the EU. All threats are from the UK side. But to these threats are now added 30mins of insults to Europeans in front of Trump and a public negotiation on trade in contravention of the UK's obligations under present EU member AND the terms of article 50 which has not even been triggered. This is all on the UK side.
Last edited by ozglobal on Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 11833
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:08 pm

Dano1977 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
LAH1 wrote:
Whilst stopping short of calling for a “punitive” deal, Mr Verhofstadt said the EU would be guided by the principle that “you can never have outside the European Union a better status than as member of the European Union”.

And there are still some here who say the threats come from the UK side. The majority of voters think we'll do better outside the Union. Ok. Of course we'll fight for the best position we can, Name one country in the same position that wouldn't. Whether we get it or not is up for grabs, we will have to live with the consequences but threats like those above only make the decision easier.


He is simply stating the obvious. If there is no benefit to be an EU member then there is no need for the EU. Of course there are benefits, not the same for all countries, that's why you will not like everything. But since what you like might not be what another country likes, it's very similar to any international deal, there are pros and cons.

Brexiteers downplayed the benefits or simply outright lied about the consequences of Brexit, so after that having a reasonable discussion is impossible.

In the UK there was a myriad of voices about what Brexit would mean. Still the case today. In the EU it was always clear and obvious, the EU is an all or nothing deal. The country that least corresponded to that with its exemptions is leaving, that means the EU is even more homogeneous.


I agree with Mr Verhofstadt. Why should I join a country club with a membership fee of XXXX per year, when I can get a weekend membership for XX but get all the benefits a full fee paying member gets.

I also agree with Mr Trump, why should the US continue to plough money into NATO, when countries like Canada,France,Germany,Italy and Turkey can't meet the 2% target for defence spending.*

* Figures correct on July 8th 2016 - May have changed,

Horses for courses - Pay your fair share be a member of the club - Don't, why should the others pick up the tab.


I agree with Trump on that point, NATO is not working out, but that's mainly because it's a US supra national thing imposed on mainly european countries. An EU defense where each country would contribute in proportion to their economies, and used for example to defend EU borders, allowing Greece to lower its spending on defense, would be much more sensible. Of course all US bases on EU soil should be closed. The US can keep being allies with Turkey, we don't mind.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 6073
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:29 pm

Aesma wrote:
I agree with Trump on that point, NATO is not working out, but that's mainly because it's a US supra national thing imposed on mainly european countries.


How exactly is collective defense - as opposed to bilateral treaties that brought us WW2 - "not working"? Because that Kremlin paid idiot says so and French socialists happen to agree with him on everything from NATO to protectionism?
How is it NATO "imposed"? What prevents the French from leaving NATO again?
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 11833
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:53 pm

We can have cooperation and an agreement with the US on defense (although with Trump, that's debatable). But European defense should be first and foremost an European endeavour. No US general involved. Can you imagine an European general dictating things on US soil ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
ltbewr
Posts: 14312
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:35 pm

President Trump* was a freaking shameful idiot with PM May. The press asked him questions that he refused to answer and instead continued his attack on a free press. He has no idea about how government should work. PM May is no angel either, she is faced with her own crises over the Brexit vote.
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 1763
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:38 pm

Aesma wrote:
We can have cooperation and an agreement with the US on defense (although with Trump, that's debatable). But European defense should be first and foremost an European endeavour. No US general involved. Can you imagine an European general dictating things on US soil ?


Going to be blunt: did you just flip "America First" into "Europe First"?

That aside, with the world changing so dramatically, I'm not sure how much pressure NATO members are susceptible to. The economics of it all will be intriguing. I'm not arguing that countries shouldn't have to live up to their commitments, but with diminished UK influence in the EU and outright hostility from the U.S., might the EU reach a point where cutting a deal with Russia becomes more economically attractive?
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 11833
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Theresa May to GOP - Trump

Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:57 pm

I'm French so have never been a fan of NATO, nothing new. This is nonpartisan in France, the country rejoined NATO command only because we elected an US fanboy as president in 2007. At the end of his term, nobody admitted they had voted for him.

Cutting a deal with Russia, maybe in countries already run by people similar and friendly with Putin, like Hungary, but in Western Europe, I don't think so.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CandleFlight, par13del, SQ948 and 67 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos