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NIKV69
Posts: 13497
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:17 pm

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
I do remember Trump saying .during the election that he would call for a complete and total shutdown of Muslims entering the United States. Then after being elected he signed a executive order disallowing anyone from a number of predominately Muslim nations from entering the United States.


If you quoted everything he said "until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on"

His order doesn't disallow it just puts in place a stronger vetting process for anyone entering the US from these countries. Was it written poorly? Sure but the fact remains that our new president is making it a little tougher to come in here. I am not happy with existing Visa holders being detained and I would hope the order would only apply to people never here before or people here illegally but we need to let this play out and weed out the propaganda from the open border crowd before we judge.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
Hillis
Posts: 1307
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:19 pm

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:23 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
DLFREEBIRD wrote:
I do remember Trump saying .during the election that he would call for a complete and total shutdown of Muslims entering the United States. Then after being elected he signed a executive order disallowing anyone from a number of predominately Muslim nations from entering the United States.


If you quoted everything he said "until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on"

His order doesn't disallow it just puts in place a stronger vetting process for anyone entering the US from these countries. Was it written poorly? Sure but the fact remains that our new president is making it a little tougher to come in here. I am not happy with existing Visa holders being detained and I would hope the order would only apply to people never here before or people here illegally but we need to let this play out and weed out the propaganda from the open border crowd before we judge.


NIK, you just hung yourself with Trump's own words He didn't wait for anyone to figure anything out. He basicially shut everything down, including allowing Green Card holders, who are legal residents, from entering. He's acting like a Dictator, thinking his word should be law without question. That's not how America works. I'm surprised he hasn't threatened the judge who put the stay on his move. I'm really not.

And, yes, it disallows these people from getting in here. Period. The ban is quite clear on that point.

By the way, how does it feel to realize you're a Fascist? I'm really interested in that.
 
727LOVER
Posts: 8624
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:03 pm

C O M E
B A C K !!!!!!!!

Image
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
Flaps
Posts: 1651
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2000 1:11 pm

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:09 pm

Pellegrine wrote:
I've decided that I'm going on a trip to Iran and with the people I know, if I have one second of detention we will be suing the US Gov and Donal Dump himself. I've always wanted to go to Iran. I dig their food and UNESCO World Heritage sites.


Hopefully you will like their prisons too. Will you be suing the Iranian government as well when you are detained due to reciprocity?
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:37 pm

cpd wrote:
The countries that are strangely absent from the list, has anyone thought to check Trump's business interests in those places?


I think this was a fair question. Why not Egypt, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia for example.

Turns out, this was Obama's list, derived under the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act and it's update copied below.


Release Date: February 18, 2016
For Immediate Release
DHS Press Office
Contact: 202-282-8010

WASHINGTON—The Department of Homeland Security today announced that it is continuing its implementation of the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 with the addition of Libya, Somalia, and Yemen as three countries of concern, limiting Visa Waiver Program travel for certain individuals who have traveled to these countries.

Pursuant to the Act, the Secretary of Homeland Security had sixty days to determine whether additional countries or areas of concern should be subject to the travel or dual nationality restrictions under the Act. After careful consideration, and in consultation with the Director of National Intelligence and the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Homeland Security has determined that Libya, Somalia, and Yemen be included as countries of concern, specifically for individuals who have traveled to these countries since March 1, 2011. At this time, the restriction on Visa Waiver Program travel will not apply to dual nationals of these three countries. DHS continues to consult with the Department of State and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence to develop further criteria to determine whether other countries would be added to this list. https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/02/18/dhs ... er-program
 
wstakl
Posts: 238
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:51 am

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:50 pm

Chicago last year.......shot and killed 716, shot and wounded 3663, total shot 4379, total homicides 798.

Also last year, more Americans were killed by toddlers with guns than by Muslim terrorists.

Please Amercia, sort your OWN shit out first.
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:01 pm

wstakl wrote:
Chicago last year.......shot and killed 716, shot and wounded 3663, total shot 4379, total homicides 798.

Also last year, more Americans were killed by toddlers with guns than by Muslim terrorists.

Please Amercia, sort your OWN shit out first.


You are clearly not well informed, it is not proper to bring up Chicago in any context related to murders because it is embarrassing to another minority group. Watch what you're doing. And nobody said they cannot land on your shores....
 
solarflyer22
Topic Author
Posts: 1517
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:07 pm

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:12 pm

mham001 wrote:
solarflyer22 wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01 ... e-program/

US PASSPORT HOLDERS DO NOT GO TO IRAN OR TRANSIT. YOU WILL NOT BE SENT BACK, YOU WILL BE JAILED.


Yea, that's bullsh-t.

I always get my US visa news from UK newspapers based upon vague "reports". Fake news much?

On the other hand, it should have been extended to more countries.


Maybe you should show up in Iran and find out what will happen? lol

Also, Iraq has partly joined Iran and banned US visitors and Contractors. Only US Military and Government are allowed to fight ISIS, for obvious reasons.
 
User avatar
lugie
Posts: 888
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:11 pm

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:12 pm

cpd wrote:
The countries that are strangely absent from the list, has anyone thought to check Trump's business interests in those places?


This map is interesting.

Red = Nations under the immigration ban
Green = Other muslim nations in the same area but also nations where the Trump Organization owns golf resorts or real estates.

Image
Q400 E175 E190 CRJ7 CRJ9 CRJX MD88 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A359 B733 B73G B738 B739 B748 B764 B772 B77W B788 B789
FRA STR HAM TXL MUC ZRH ACE BRU BLL DUB MAN ARN MAD OPO LIS FNC AMS PHL RDU LGA CLT EWR ORD ATL SFO MDW IAD YYZ SJO PTY
 
solarflyer22
Topic Author
Posts: 1517
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:07 pm

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:17 pm

That's true but citing something from the guy that called ISIS "JV League" isn't worth much. There is also no ISIS presence in Iran which is 90% Shiite anyway. If this were addressing ISIS, which is supposed to be the plan, you can't leave nearly all of the Arabs states and Pakistan out. Even worse, you can get a Pakistani passport for $50


mham001 wrote:
cpd wrote:
The countries that are strangely absent from the list, has anyone thought to check Trump's business interests in those places?


I think this was a fair question. Why not Egypt, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia for example.

Turns out, this was Obama's list, derived under the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act and it's update copied below.


Release Date: February 18, 2016
For Immediate Release
DHS Press Office
Contact: 202-282-8010

WASHINGTON—The Department of Homeland Security today announced that it is continuing its implementation of the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 with the addition of Libya, Somalia, and Yemen as three countries of concern, limiting Visa Waiver Program travel for certain individuals who have traveled to these countries.

Pursuant to the Act, the Secretary of Homeland Security had sixty days to determine whether additional countries or areas of concern should be subject to the travel or dual nationality restrictions under the Act. After careful consideration, and in consultation with the Director of National Intelligence and the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Homeland Security has determined that Libya, Somalia, and Yemen be included as countries of concern, specifically for individuals who have traveled to these countries since March 1, 2011. At this time, the restriction on Visa Waiver Program travel will not apply to dual nationals of these three countries. DHS continues to consult with the Department of State and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence to develop further criteria to determine whether other countries would be added to this list. https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/02/18/dhs ... er-program
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:20 pm

lugie wrote:
cpd wrote:
The countries that are strangely absent from the list, has anyone thought to check Trump's business interests in those places?


This map is interesting.

Red = Nations under the immigration ban
Green = Other muslim nations in the same area but also nations where the Trump Organization owns golf resorts or real estates.

Image



Well that was convincing...of, not sure what.

If you want to feel important, tell your friends where the list really came from - the Obama Department of Homeland Security. Tell them they shouldn't read fake news.
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:24 pm

solarflyer22 wrote:
That's true but citing something from the guy that called ISIS "JV League" isn't worth much. There is also no ISIS presence in Iran which is 90% Shiite anyway. If this were addressing ISIS, which is supposed to be the plan, you can't leave nearly all of the Arabs states and Pakistan out. Even worse, you can get a Pakistani passport for $50


Oh I agree 100%, but imagine he ADDED counties suddenly, imagine the sh-tstorm. Pakistan, Egypt, SA, etc., notable exceptions that eliminate this silly "Muslim ban" argument.
 
solarflyer22
Topic Author
Posts: 1517
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:07 pm

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:25 pm

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
Iran is already a sanctioned country, U.S. citizens already have to purchase a ticket on a non-Iranian carrier to travel into Iran,
If Pellegrine has a diplomatic visa, NATO VISAS, C-2 VISA G-1,G-2,G-3, and G-4 visas which are typically issued for international organizations traveling to work he can go to and from Libya, Iran, Iraq, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen. If not he will have to wait out the 90 day ban, which will end April 27, 2017


Uh that's news to me. I'm Iranian American and I do go back to Iran fairly regularly (I know this is shocking to many Americans). Trust me, plenty of those Persians leaving out of LAX have flown on IranAir, Mahan Air and Kish Air. We do it either domestically or connect from IST, DXB or EU. Even the travel agencies in LA will sell you tickets though I suppose there is some workaround. I've never heard of USG pinching someone over this, even at the height of sanctions.
 
KLDC10
Posts: 1409
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:15 pm

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:03 pm

lugie wrote:
cpd wrote:
The countries that are strangely absent from the list, has anyone thought to check Trump's business interests in those places?


This map is interesting.

Red = Nations under the immigration ban
Green = Other muslim nations in the same area but also nations where the Trump Organization owns golf resorts or real estates.

Image


Other Muslim nations in the same area? What about Lebanon and Jordan? Or don't they fit the agenda you are trying to spout?

That spurious argument is defeated by a basic knowledge of Geography.
DC9/MD90/MD11/F70/BAE146
737/738/739/744/748/752/763/772/789
A319/A320/A321/A332/A333/A346/A359
Q400/E170/E175/E190/CS300
 
vc10
Posts: 1431
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2001 4:13 am

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:27 pm

I suppose none of you remember that during the 1970s the arab world would not let you enter thair country if you had an Israeli stamp in your passport, so what come around goes around. The exception to this was if I remember was Iran , but that was under the Shah.
Last edited by vc10 on Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
vc10
Posts: 1431
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2001 4:13 am

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:28 pm

I suppose none of you remember that during the 1970s the arab world would not let you enter thair country if you had an Israeli stamp in your passport, so what come around goes around. The exception to this was if I remember was Iran , but that was under the Shah.

whoops sorry one too many clicks
 
LMP737
Posts: 6042
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:39 pm

777Jet wrote:

I'm not interested in ALL of the local murders - types of murders that happen in all countries - and that were not underpinned by Islamic terrorism. This is about preventing Islamic terrorism such as 9/11.

I hope Australia takes such a hard line stance on immigration one day:

http://www.news.com.au/national/crime/t ... 0eecce7d80

'Make Australia Great Again'


Here's the answer, zero. Now I knew you wern't going to look it up. Don't want any information that contradicts your world view.

Before I forget I hope it's not lost on you that the countries that do business with Trump Inc are not on the list.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
NoTime
Posts: 624
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:21 am

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:23 am

Hillis wrote:
He's acting like a Dictator, thinking his word should be law without question. That's not how America works.


Whether or not this should've been done is certainly up for debate. Whether or not it can be done (and whether this is "how America works") isn't...

U.S. Code › Title 8 › Chapter 12 › Subchapter II › Part II › § 1182 › (f)

Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President
Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate. Whenever the Attorney General finds that a commercial airline has failed to comply with regulations of the Attorney General relating to requirements of airlines for the detection of fraudulent documents used by passengers traveling to the United States (including the training of personnel in such detection), the Attorney General may suspend the entry of some or all aliens transported to the United States by such airline.


So, by the law of the land, Trump didn't go nearly as far as he could've. And, yes, that appears to be "how America works."
 
LMP737
Posts: 6042
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:27 am

NoTime wrote:

So, by the law of the land, Trump didn't go nearly as far as he could've."


Of course he didn't. To have done so would have hurt the family business.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
User avatar
Francoflier
Posts: 5371
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:27 pm

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:42 am

vc10 wrote:
I suppose none of you remember that during the 1970s the arab world would not let you enter thair country if you had an Israeli stamp in your passport, so what come around goes around. The exception to this was if I remember was Iran , but that was under the Shah.


And Israel reciprocated, and still does...
What has that got to do with America?

Why is Israel suddenly so important to America that the new government is happy to destabilze an entire region further to help them?
Is Israel America's 51st state now?
What happened to America first?
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
salttee
Posts: 3149
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:49 am

Francoflier wrote:
Is Israel America's 51st state now?
What happened to America first?

Good questions.
 
LMP737
Posts: 6042
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:00 am

wstakl wrote:
Chicago last year.......shot and killed 716, shot and wounded 3663, total shot 4379, total homicides 798.

Also last year, more Americans were killed by toddlers with guns than by Muslim terrorists.

Please Amercia, sort your OWN shit out first.


Nah, that would take too much effort. Much easier to write executive orders that accomplish nothing.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13294
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:37 am

mham001 wrote:
If you want to feel important, tell your friends where the list really came from - the Obama Department of Homeland Security..


You can have extra vetting by the intelligence agencies for countries like Saudia Arabia without it going public via a finding. You can not ban entry without it going public .....

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
dragon-wings
Posts: 4146
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2001 4:55 am

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:57 am

mham001 wrote:
If you want to feel important, tell your friends where the list really came from - the Obama Department of Homeland Security. Tell them they shouldn't read fake news.


Maybe I am wrong, but when Obama made that list couldn't people from those countries still enter the US? I thought it was just extra screening and stuff like that.
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
User avatar
Pellegrine
Posts: 2455
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:19 am

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:09 am

[twoid][/twoid]
Flaps wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
I've decided that I'm going on a trip to Iran and with the people I know, if I have one second of detention we will be suing the US Gov and Donal Dump himself. I've always wanted to go to Iran. I dig their food and UNESCO World Heritage sites.


Hopefully you will like their prisons too. Will you be suing the Iranian government as well when you are detained due to reciprocity?


I have two passports. Calm down. I know where to use which.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13294
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:24 am

[url][/url]
dragon-wings wrote:
mham001 wrote:
If you want to feel important, tell your friends where the list really came from - the Obama Department of Homeland Security. Tell them they shouldn't read fake news.


Maybe I am wrong, but when Obama made that list couldn't people from those countries still enter the US? I thought it was just extra screening and stuff like that.


Just like any other group of facists they like pointing fingers "see, they are evil to" to distract people from realizing how evil they are.
But it is good to see that many posters that supported traitor Trump before he took office are now awfully quite. The remaining supporters are just the hardcore Nazis, that would have tossed Zyklon B into gaschambers without remorse, if they had been born in another time and place.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
cpd
Posts: 6420
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:37 am

Another unfortunate side effect of all this:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/ ... u1rhy.html

When 15 year old kids get caught up in this, especially ones like this kid, pretty dumb. Potentially the USA could lose out on kids who could potentially get involved in the space program. How many wide eyed youngsters were spurred on by a trip like this and then got into the field and went on to achieve great things? Surely more than a few.

I bet someone is going to suggest the kid is dangerous, serves him right, etc.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 13497
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:45 am

Hillis wrote:
By the way, how does it feel to realize you're a Fascist? I'm really interested in that.


Will you stop with the melodrama and fearmongering? Didn't losing huge in the election teach you the country is sick of this crap? Sick of calling people racist, fascist, xenophobe, sexsist?

You have to stop the propaganda. It's sinking the DNC and fast.

You want to hate Trump, go right ahead. If you want to get control back then get people out to vote in 2018 but please can you grow up?
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13294
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:02 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Hillis wrote:
By the way, how does it feel to realize you're a Fascist? I'm really interested in that.


Will you stop with the melodrama and fearmongering?


A rose by any other name....

You have to stop the propaganda. It's sinking the DNC and fast.


The way the approval ratings of your Führer are going, you be a little deluded about that. Obama was everyone's darling in comparison.

You want to hate Trump, go right ahead.


No one hates him, mentally sick people need help, not hate.

If you want to get control back then get people out to vote in 2018 but please can you grow up?


No amount of election rigging will keep Trump in office.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
DLFREEBIRD
Posts: 1488
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:24 am

tommy1808 wrote:
[url][/url]
dragon-wings wrote:
mham001 wrote:
If you want to feel important, tell your friends where the list really came from - the Obama Department of Homeland Security. Tell them they shouldn't read fake news.


Maybe I am wrong, but when Obama made that list couldn't people from those countries still enter the US? I thought it was just extra screening and stuff like that.


Just like any other group of facists they like pointing fingers "see, they are evil to" to distract people from realizing how evil they are.
But it is good to see that many posters that supported traitor Trump before he took office are now awfully quite. The remaining supporters are just the hardcore Nazis, that would have tossed Zyklon B into gaschambers without remorse, if they had been born in another time and place.

Best regards
Thomas


i can see Steve Bannon and Trump tossing Zyklon B into gas chambers. without remorse. Not Trump's voters i think they have already come to their sense. He only has a 36 approval rating after just one week on the job. Expect a break from the republicans soon, those rats won't want to go down with this sinking ship.
 
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777Jet
Posts: 6987
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:29 am

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:38 am

LMP737 wrote:
Don't want any information that contradicts your world view.


All you did right there was summarize the left. Well done!

The next 4-8 years are going to be so exciting.

Y'all cry babies on the left have whinged more in the last few months than the right has over the previous eight years, and it is great to see!

What is really sad is that now Americans are complaining and crying about a US President for trying to put the US first... shocker!

If you don't like the US President putting the US first then get the heck out of the US. Y'all will not be missed!
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
tommy1808
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Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:46 am

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
Not Trump's voters i think they have already come to their sense.


I agree, that is why I wrote "the remaining Trump supporters. ;)

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
dragon-wings
Posts: 4146
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2001 4:55 am

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:08 am

Trump want a Muslim ban! Rudy Giuliani has said on Fox news that Trump asked him about legally implementing a Muslim ban.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administrat ... an-legally
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
incitatus
Posts: 3376
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:22 pm

mham001 wrote:

Well that was convincing...of, not sure what.

If you want to feel important, tell your friends where the list really came from - the Obama Department of Homeland Security. Tell them they shouldn't read fake news.


Are you saying the Trump administration is so incompetent it cannot even draft a list of countries to ban travelers from? Obama is gone. Trump is responsible for his actions. As for fake news, it is irrelevant what the media says considering how many politicians, both Left and Right spoke against the ban.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
PanHAM
Posts: 9719
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:35 pm

In th real News was, that 4 career Diplomat department leaders in the State Department quit and took a good number experienced staff along. it is not only geographis, human rights, international law of nations, UN refugee convention and last but not least the US Constitution have been broken by that decret / executive order. Looks like Trump chases Erdogan.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:37 pm

dragon-wings wrote:
mham001 wrote:
If you want to feel important, tell your friends where the list really came from - the Obama Department of Homeland Security. Tell them they shouldn't read fake news.


Maybe I am wrong, but when Obama made that list couldn't people from those countries still enter the US? I thought it was just extra screening and stuff like that.


it was the Visa Waiver program, or some such. It is a list of countries considered most dangerous that were removed from the program that waived visas for some. Travel to and from those countries placed rstrictions on the passport holder from entry to the US for 60 days, or something. Look it up.
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:40 pm

PanHAM wrote:
In th real News was, that 4 career Diplomat department leaders in the State Department quit and took a good number experienced staff along. it is not only geographis, human rights, international law of nations, UN refugee convention and last but not least the US Constitution have been broken by that decret / executive order. Looks like Trump chases Erdogan.


I recommend you read the rest of the story before proclaiming your version "real news". Of course, sitting there 5,000 miles away, you have no idea who the players were and why they might have either resigned, or asked to resign. Try 'Patrick Kennedy' for $1,000 Alex.
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:42 pm

incitatus wrote:
mham001 wrote:

Well that was convincing...of, not sure what.

If you want to feel important, tell your friends where the list really came from - the Obama Department of Homeland Security. Tell them they shouldn't read fake news.


Are you saying the Trump administration is so incompetent it cannot even draft a list of countries to ban travelers from? Obama is gone. Trump is responsible for his actions. As for fake news, it is irrelevant what the media says considering how many politicians, both Left and Right spoke against the ban.


It appears he grabbed the list of countries that DHS considers most dangerous at this time. Do you have a problem with him listening to people who might know?

Just admit it, it wouldn't matter what he did, you and others would whiiiiine.
 
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SAS A340
Posts: 897
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 5:59 am

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:03 pm

In Sweden, it has just been confirmed from the US embasy that Swedes with dual citizenship, where one is from the mentioned seven countries are undesirable in the United States, Do not come here!!

At Trumps first weekend as president, the proportion of searches to the US has decreased by 43 per cent compared with the same period last year. A weekend later it was down to 47 percent compared with the same period in the year before. - It is clear that Donald Trump just now has lowered the US trade mark as a tourist destination. The Swedish people right now clearly look at other destinations. Another explanation for the decrease can be uncertainty surrounding the visa, which also affects the business travellers.Bad news for SAS and Norwegian among others :banghead:
It's not what u do,it's how u do it!
 
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Dreadnought
Posts: 10201
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:31 pm

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:58 pm

Aesma wrote:
777Jet : Kyrgyzstan and Russia aren't on Trump's list either.

Besides, if someone has invented a way to detect potential terrorists, maybe they could share the info ?

Mohammed Merah, who shot and killed seven people and wounded five, including children, was well known to French authorities, to the point both the homeland and abroad secret services envisioned (or did) use him to infiltrate terrorist cells. They didn't see him as a potential terrorist.


The list of countries in the ban was made a year or so ago by the Obama administration, and is based on whether there are resources in that country that can provide a reasonably trustworthy verification of a person's identity. Immigration services have to ask for police reports etc on the applicant to find out if the person has a criminal record, for what crimes etc. Saudi Arabia is not on the list because (apparently) their records are pretty reliable. Yemen is on the list because theirs are not.

Lefties are losing their shit over this - why did they not complain when Obama did it on all Iraqis? Or when Carter stopped all people from Iran. Federal law CLEARLY allows him to do this.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1182

(f) Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President
Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.


It’s legal. It’s temporary. Obama did it. Carter did it. Get over it.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
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Tugger
Posts: 10629
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:14 pm

Dreadnought wrote:
[

Dread, are you willing to step up and castigate Trump for anything? Why are you loathe to admit that it is not the same as "lefties" have done before. Your deference is so categorical seeming it undermines your relevance.

The orders are not the same, yes they are legal and yes something involving a ban/slowdown has been done before but:
Obama's 2011 executive order — the administration did not publicize it — it involved slowing down the approval of new visas for Iraqi nationals, following investigative findings that two Iraqi refugees were implicated in making improvised bombs targeting U.S. troops in Iraq. The policy also included re-vetting 58,000 Iraqi refugees already settled in the U.S., as then-Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano explained to Congress in September 2011.

The slowdown in approving Iraqi visas did prompt negative news stories and complaints from civil liberties and refugee advocacy groups at the time, and did appear to result in many fewer Iraqi refugees arriving in the U.S. in 2011, though the numbers rebounded in 2012. It did not stop all visitors from Iraq from traveling to the U.S. or halt refugee or visa applications, and unlike Trump's order, it was tied to a specific threat.

Trump identified only Syria by name in his executive order, and the other six nations covered in the ban — Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, and Yemen — did come from a list of countries "of concern" identified by the Obama administration under a visa-related law enacted in December 2015, the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act. The list did not affect nationals of those seven countries, though; it meant that some citizens of the 38 allied (mostly Western) countries eligible for a special visa waiver program who had spent time in the seven "countries of concern" had to "obtain a visa for travel to the United States, which generally includes an in-person interview at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate," as U.S. Customs and Border Patrol explained.

http://theweek.com/speedreads/676677/ho ... -different

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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Dreadnought
Posts: 10201
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:31 pm

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:34 pm

Tugger wrote:
Dread, are you willing to step up and castigate Trump for anything? Why are you loathe to admit that it is not the same as "lefties" have done before. Your deference is so categorical seeming it undermines your relevance.

The orders are not the same, yes they are legal and yes something involving a ban/slowdown has been done before but:
Obama's 2011 executive order — the administration did not publicize it — it involved slowing down the approval of new visas for Iraqi nationals, following investigative findings that two Iraqi refugees were implicated in making improvised bombs targeting U.S. troops in Iraq. The policy also included re-vetting 58,000 Iraqi refugees already settled in the U.S., as then-Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano explained to Congress in September 2011.


Firstly, your quote slips over the fact there was an effective freeze (not just a "slowdown") on Iraqi immigration for 6 months.

Secondly, I don't agree with everything Trump does - what gets my goat and pushes me to post something here is when people got all worked up about bullshit. For instance, that this executive order is a "muslim ban". It is not a ban on muslims, otherwise Saudi Arabia, Egypt and all other muslim countries would be on the list. The list is specific - With the exception of Iran which is the only country in the world who openly and officially calls for genocide - all the countries are where the government services have effectively collapsed, where government is no longer really in control of the entire country - in some cases any of it, and any efforts at vetting these people must be done using resources outside that government. What resources are available? How reliable are they? That's what the immigration services have to figure out over the next few months.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
windy95
Posts: 2781
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:11 pm

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:04 pm

PanHAM wrote:
In th real News was, that 4 career Diplomat department leaders in the State Department quit and took a good number experienced staff along. it is not only geographis, human rights, international law of nations, UN refugee convention and last but not least the US Constitution have been broken by that decret / executive order. Looks like Trump chases Erdogan.


How was the constitution broken? He merely followed existing federal law.
 
dtw9
Posts: 997
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 10:09 am

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:45 pm

windy95 wrote:
PanHAM wrote:
In th real News was, that 4 career Diplomat department leaders in the State Department quit and took a good number experienced staff along. it is not only geographis, human rights, international law of nations, UN refugee convention and last but not least the US Constitution have been broken by that decret / executive order. Looks like Trump chases Erdogan.


How was the constitution broken? He merely followed existing federal law.



Liberals don't like the truth getting in the way of their agenda.

https://sethfrantzman.com/2017/01/28/ob ... -tell-you/
 
blockski
Posts: 690
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:30 pm

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:46 pm

Dreadnought wrote:
Aesma wrote:
777Jet : Kyrgyzstan and Russia aren't on Trump's list either.

Besides, if someone has invented a way to detect potential terrorists, maybe they could share the info ?

Mohammed Merah, who shot and killed seven people and wounded five, including children, was well known to French authorities, to the point both the homeland and abroad secret services envisioned (or did) use him to infiltrate terrorist cells. They didn't see him as a potential terrorist.


The list of countries in the ban was made a year or so ago by the Obama administration, and is based on whether there are resources in that country that can provide a reasonably trustworthy verification of a person's identity. Immigration services have to ask for police reports etc on the applicant to find out if the person has a criminal record, for what crimes etc. Saudi Arabia is not on the list because (apparently) their records are pretty reliable. Yemen is on the list because theirs are not.

Lefties are losing their shit over this - why did they not complain when Obama did it on all Iraqis? Or when Carter stopped all people from Iran. Federal law CLEARLY allows him to do this.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1182

(f) Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President
Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.


It’s legal. It’s temporary. Obama did it. Carter did it. Get over it.


It's not clear that it's legal - that is why several federal judges issued stays.

It is most certainly not at all what the Obama administration did.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/01/30/sor ... ation-ban/

This, written by someone in the Obama administration, goes into great detail about precisely how and why the line that this is just like Obama's actions is wrong. He lays out six areas:

1. Scope: The Obama actions in 2011 applied to Iraq only, and only to those seeking a particular type of visa (special immigrant visas) meant for those that helped US armed forces in the Iraq War.

2. Rationale: The Obama actions were in response to a specific threat based on evidence. Trump's action is not specific at all, and he has cited no evidence.

3. Impact: Obama did not ban visas for refugees (refugees don't travel on visas anyway); and they never stopped the flow of Iraqi refugees. It slowed dramatically, thanks to the lengthy vetting by the Obama administration. There was never a ban. Never.

4. Process: Obama's administration carefully crafted their policy with lengthy review from all the relevant departments. Trump did not; the CPB staff are confused, and key people are contradicting each other on TV.

5. Vettting: the Obama administration already put in place extraordinary vetting requirements. The process takes 18-24 months.

6. The 'seven countries' that Obama identified did not ban anyone from entering the US; it only required a small number of people from those countries to obtain a visa before coming.
 
QANTAS077
Posts: 5196
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:08 pm

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:36 pm

777Jet wrote:
LMP737 wrote:
Don't want any information that contradicts your world view.




The next 4-8 years are going to be so exciting.




sure are...I'm from the left and I can't wait, gonna be witnessing the further decline of the US.

keep it up!
 
NIKV69
Posts: 13497
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:22 pm

tommy1808 wrote:

No amount of election rigging will keep Trump in office.

Best regards
Thomas


I know like the first time when you all said he should drop out. didn't have a chance, would get trounced by Hillary etc.

No need to rig anything. You need to respect the American voter and stop insulting them. Maybe then you and your party can take steps to begin to rebuild you failed party that is in shambles.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
Hillis
Posts: 1307
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:19 pm

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:33 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

No amount of election rigging will keep Trump in office.

Best regards
Thomas


I know like the first time when you all said he should drop out. didn't have a chance, would get trounced by Hillary etc.

No need to rig anything. You need to respect the American voter and stop insulting them. Maybe then you and your party can take steps to begin to rebuild you failed party that is in shambles.


More American voters voted against them than for him. So, I do trust the voters. I don't trust the system as we have it.
 
UA772IAD
Posts: 1343
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:43 am

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:37 pm

777Jet wrote:
cpd wrote:
Well, he's going to take refugees from Australia:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/ ... u0t6f.html


I'm really, really surprised by this.

I thought, and was hoping, that Trump would tell Turnbull that the US would not be taking those refugees and that Australia now had to deal with them.

mariner wrote:
That may depend on where you were born.

I'm British, both parents, but because oil my father's overseas posting I was born in a country called Palestine.

That fact - my birthplace - caused my Green Card process to be much longer and more arduous than yours, with two interviews, even though I had a fairly high powered lawyer. It wasn't unpleasant it just took time, and it helped, I guess, that I'd been working in the US for ten years. Even after it was approved there was a problem because "Palestine" doesn't now exist in the INS computers and Israel didn't exist when I was born.

So there was another meeting to decide what birth country should be on my card.


I was born in Australia.

My parents, who were also born in Australia, had to wait 2 years when they applied for green cards in the 90's. They told me about that process. Basically they had several interviews and were kept in limbo for over a year after the last interview. One day they were told that their green cards were just approved and they had to be on US soil in 90 days or they would lose the green cards. They lost a lot of money have to rush a property sale through as a result of the short notice which was different to the time frames they were given. So, yeah, I am aware of how tough the process can be, as well as how dodgy / quick / questionable. I do worry that some of those with bad intentions have connections somewhere on the inside that can make getting to the US a piece of cake for them.


You do realize that in order to work for the federal government, you have to go through an extensive background check where your past personal and professional affairs are vetted, don't you?
 
NIKV69
Posts: 13497
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: VISA Issues and immigration Presidential Directive

Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:49 pm

Hillis wrote:
More American voters voted against them than for him. So, I do trust the voters. I don't trust the system as we have it.


Just substitute "California" for "Americans" and you have an accurate statement there.
I am the Googlizer!!!
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