incitatus
Topic Author
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Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:02 pm

It has been an unsettling two weeks. My hope that Trump will at least have a positive impact in the economy is dimming. This is not a Conservative presidency, much less one that sounds Christian as it claims.

We could have been much better off!
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
tommy1808
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Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:14 pm

The USA still may be considered the leader of the free world...

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/ang ... 56986.html

That ship is sailing...

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
dmg626
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Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:15 pm

If either had been the party nominee, Hillary would be President now. Where did you get the idea that Trump is a right wing conservative ? He is not
 
tommy1808
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Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:28 pm

dmg626 wrote:
Where did you get the idea that Trump is a right wing conservative ? He is not


Right wing extremist is a better fit. I don´t remember the Republicans ever trying to actively dismantle the US constitution and separation of powers before...

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
WIederling
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Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:42 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
dmg626 wrote:
Where did you get the idea that Trump is a right wing conservative ? He is not


Right wing extremist is a better fit. I don´t remember the Republicans ever trying to actively dismantle the US constitution and separation of powers before...


They've hollowed the walls for decades.
( just look at what Bush43 achieved in that domain.)
Trump just gives it the final kick to make it colaps on itself.
Murphy is an optimist
 
Flighty
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Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:05 pm

Trump is not even to the right of Hillary.

The Establishment is very angry that Trump won't kiss the ring. Indeed, it may be getting "intolerable."

He respects US citizens, which again, is an outrage. He is "destructive" in the way that a doctor destroys a cyst. In fact, he has a zeal for that. It is horrifying, if you are a cyst.

He should make more effort to respect citizens of all races and creeds. And certainly, he should be a greater promoter of women in leadership. These are vulnerabilities for him.

Believe it or not, I think he should focus on Chicago, eliminating crime there and fixing their financial problems. Then he can run on that for term 2.

Rubio was an Establishment lightweight. His presidency would be the same as an H Clinton presidency. Kasich, not sure.
 
NLCFFX
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Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:41 pm

Flighty wrote:
Trump is not even to the right of Hillary.

The Establishment is very angry that Trump won't kiss the ring. Indeed, it may be getting "intolerable."

He respects US citizens, which again, is an outrage. He is "destructive" in the way that a doctor destroys a cyst. In fact, he has a zeal for that. It is horrifying, if you are a cyst.

He should make more effort to respect citizens of all races and creeds. And certainly, he should be a greater promoter of women in leadership. These are vulnerabilities for him.

Believe it or not, I think he should focus on Chicago, eliminating crime there and fixing their financial problems. Then he can run on that for term 2.

Rubio was an Establishment lightweight. His presidency would be the same as an H Clinton presidency. Kasich, not sure.


You are correct he is not a conservative, heck he is more like a radical. I think he treats the constitution with great respect as he would a contract. He probably pushes the limit but so did many of his predecessors of both parties. Don't forget he put a strong woman in charge of his campaign and in aspects of his businesses. His wall idea goes over well in places like El Paso where it saved the city from the crime it was enduring. If he can control his mouth from idiotic name calling (he has been more restrained of late) he might turn out okay. About time we don't have a lawyer as our leader. Not sure if he is the right businessman for the job but that is who we have. If he succeeds, we will all be better off. As for Kasich, I think he was an excellent decision maker with no charisma, but I liked him....
Last edited by NLCFFX on Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Hillis
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Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:41 pm

Flighty wrote:
He respects US citizens


P.T. Barnum had you in mind when he put out his famous quote.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:17 pm

Flighty wrote:
He respects US citizens, which again, is an outrage.


Holding 5 year old US citizens without access to parents of lawyers is a sign of respect now?

Geez... What a world we live in. ..

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:36 pm

Sorry Kasich and Rubio, but this is how it will work out:
Image
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
Flighty
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Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:54 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Flighty wrote:
He respects US citizens, which again, is an outrage.


Holding 5 year old US citizens without access to parents of lawyers is a sign of respect now?

Geez... What a world we live in. ..

Best regards
Thomas


Sadly, plenty of young Americans have incredibly irresponsible parents.

Just because I have a relative overseas does not make him a citizen of the US.

Just because I impregnate a women in say China does not make me a Chinese citizen.
 
Hillis
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Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:03 pm

Flighty wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Flighty wrote:
He respects US citizens, which again, is an outrage.


Holding 5 year old US citizens without access to parents of lawyers is a sign of respect now?

Geez... What a world we live in. ..

Best regards
Thomas


Sadly, plenty of young Americans have incredibly irresponsible parents.

Just because I have a relative overseas does not make him a citizen of the US.

Just because I impregnate a women in say China does not make me a Chinese citizen.


No but under U.S. law, that child you made is U.S. citizen.
 
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lugie
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Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:14 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
Sorry Kasich and Rubio, but this is how it will work out:
Image



Comrade Jeb will lead this nation back to its glory

Image
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incitatus
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Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:26 am

Flighty wrote:
(...)

He respects US citizens, which again, is an outrage. He is "destructive" in the way that a doctor destroys a cyst. In fact, he has a zeal for that. It is horrifying, if you are a cyst.

He should make more effort to respect citizens of all races and creeds. (...)


Your two statements are contradictory. He "respects US citizens" but should "make more effort to respect citizens of all races and creeds"? I see respect in this case as binary: Either he respects or not. His respect is selective. He respects the constituencies that got him elected, especially the one perceived as giving the crucial vote: blue collar Midwestern men. From his demeaning tweets it is pretty clear he does not respect anyone who disagrees with him. Or Muslims. Or African-Americans. Or Hispanics.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
N867DA
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Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:44 am

Flighty wrote:
Trump is not even to the right of Hillary.

The Establishment is very angry that Trump won't kiss the ring. Indeed, it may be getting "intolerable."

He respects US citizens, which again, is an outrage. He is "destructive" in the way that a doctor destroys a cyst. In fact, he has a zeal for that. It is horrifying, if you are a cyst.

He should make more effort to respect citizens of all races and creeds. And certainly, he should be a greater promoter of women in leadership. These are vulnerabilities for him.

Believe it or not, I think he should focus on Chicago, eliminating crime there and fixing their financial problems. Then he can run on that for term 2.

Rubio was an Establishment lightweight. His presidency would be the same as an H Clinton presidency. Kasich, not sure.


I am a naturalized citizen and I find in many of Trump's speeches dog whistles that seem like I am not welcome here because I was not born here. The company he keeps and the people he supports illustrates this. I think political marginalization is almost inevitable if you are in the "losing side" of an election but Trump goes an extra step toward alienating newer Americans. George Bush actually cared about all Americans, which does not seem to be true with Trump.

He is anti-net neutrality, rejects global warming, seems to be willing to go along with teaching creationism in schools, and will likely support legislation that will undo decades of environmental conservation.

I don't think any Republican other than Ted Cruz would have been as terrible for America as Donald Trump, but we will survive this too.
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
NIKV69
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Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:16 am

dmg626 wrote:
If either had been the party nominee, Hillary would be President now. Where did you get the idea that Trump is a right wing conservative ? He is not


You kidding? Kasich would have trounced her worse than Trump and I am pretty sure Rubio would have beat her too.
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die.
 
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lugie
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Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:16 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
dmg626 wrote:
If either had been the party nominee, Hillary would be President now. Where did you get the idea that Trump is a right wing conservative ? He is not


You kidding? Kasich would have trounced her worse than Trump and I am pretty sure Rubio would have beat her too.


After all there's something we can agree on.

The paradoxon of the 2016 election was that the only reason either one of the candidates even stood a chance was their respective opponent - Hillary and Trump were by far the most unpopular candidates to ever run for a presidency...

Pretty much every single one of the GOP candidates (maybe except Cruz), but especially Rubio or Kasich would have landed easy victories against Hillary. Probably even in the popular vote ;)

Just like any Democrat I could come up with off the top of my head would have blown Trump away.
Biden, Kerry, Sanders, Warren, Gabbard, O'Malley, Michelle.
None of them were nearly as loathed as Hillary. Which was the only reason she lost.
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olle
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Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:17 pm

The Tea party now with Trum have the chance to show their policy in action.

This is hheir chance to win a place in history or dissapear
 
Hillis
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Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:22 pm

Kasich is a big of a nut in his own right as Trump and Pence. He's zealot on the abortion issue. His answer to everything is to sell state (or in this case, it would have been Federal) assets and privatize. He wants to destroy unions. He's fiscally conservative, but he's not in the league of lunacy like Sam Brownback or Bobby Jindal.

Rubio is just a lightweight who I don't think has had an original thought in his life. He's climed his way to where he is by tossing friends and mentors under the bus along the way. He wants the glory, but he doesn't want to do the work the office he holds entails.
 
HMK31
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Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:06 am

As someone with experience in this area, I'm quite confident that Kasich and Rubio would've beaten Hillary. For that matter, Team Hillary seemed to think Trump was the only candidate they could cleanly beat, and they had Hillary's odds at 50-50 versus Ted Cruz.

My thinking is either Kasich or Rubio would've won the popular vote.

Kasich likely exceeds Trump's victory in the Electoral College by adding Minnesota, Maine (statewide), New Hampshire, Colorado, Nevada, and possibly Virginia.

Even though he wins the Popular Vote, Rubio doesn't quite get what Trump did in the Electoral College. I could see Rubio winning Colorado and Nevada, but I don't think he gets Michigan (and even Pennsylvania is questionable to me). Ultimately, his winning map looks more like Bush 2004, as his coalition would've been different from Trump's.
 
Pyrex
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Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:54 pm

incitatus wrote:
We could have been much better off!


Well, if it would have been Kasich or Rubio, the attacks on them by the media would have been at least 90% as bad as the ones on Trump (remember, the media was not trying to destroy Trump, they were trying to end conservatism and install a glorious 100-year reign of single-party dominance in U.S. politics, something they were already pre-boasting of). The only difference is, unlike Trump, neither Rubio or Kasich would have had the balls to respond in kind, so they would have been steamrolled by the wife of a pathological liar who, among other things, bombed the crap out of Serbia to give some territory deep within Europe to Al-Qaeda-backed terrorists. Basically would have been Romney 2.0.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
windy95
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Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:33 pm

incitatus wrote:
It has been an unsettling two weeks. My hope that Trump will at least have a positive impact in the economy is dimming. This is not a Conservative presidency, much less one that sounds Christian as it claims.

We could have been much better off!


1) Unsettling? How?
2) Positive impact on economy dimming? Why?
3) He did not run as a Christian Conservative

As for Kasich and Rubio we would then have more of the establishment government that made the mess that we are now in. Both losers who ran loser campaigns
 
rfields5421
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Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:23 pm

Trump is reminding more every day of the first days of the Jimmy Carter administration.

He is making a lot of the same mistakes, and going down the same path.

Carter came to the White House as a complete outsider, and purposely chose his top aids from people with little or no Washington DC experience. Carter learned his greatest 'enemy' was the Democratic Party leadership in the House and Senate.

Donald Trump is learning that if he does not work with the existing conservative Republican leadership - he is going to get nothing done.

His 'Immigration Ban' is a perfect example of amateurs in action. I can think of a half dozen ways to get the ban into action, and not end up with the court battle he is facing.

Secretary Kelly is being a brave soldier - taking responsibility for the actions of DHS from the moment he took the oath. But he as also said that was the first time he say the Executive Order, when it was signed just before he was sworn in. He was the first person at DHS to see the executive order, but the implementation instructions had already gone out from the White House. We know now that no one in the State Department, the Justice Department or Homeland Security was consulted about the Executive Order.

It was planned as a big PR splash.

The proper way to implement such and order would be to call in the Acting Attorney General, and the nominated Attorney General, and tell them - This is what I want to do, how do we do it legally.

They would have brought up some of the laws which the Executive Order broke. Laws passed by Congress to give those holding Immigrant Visas and Green Cards due process rights. Laws passed by Congress giving refugees some due process rights. Laws passed by Congress giving certain due process rights to holders of several categories of special visas. All holders of these type visa's can be denied entry, can have their visa's cancelled - but it must be on an INDIVIDUAL basis. ICE must present reasons in court why that particular person is no longer eligible for the privileges of that visa.

Trump knows that every aspect of 'Extreme Vetting' his advisors have proposed has already been implemented over the past four years for refugees. He should know that there is not way for anyone from those countries to get a visa to enter the US in a few days or a few weeks. Most take over a year for as simple tourist visa. And H1B visa can take six to nine months. A visa as a student takes at least a year go get. Many of the 'social media' checks, and checks of phone contacts, etc - are already in place.

A refugee visa or an immigrant visa takes two to three years, and positive proof by a US investigator to ensure the person applying for the visa is actually who he/she claims to be.

The Executive Order and implementation were about PR, not about actually accomplishing anything.

Trump said for over a week that the order had to be implemented as a surprise to prevent a 'flood of bad guys' rushing into out country. After the Circuit Court of Appeals turned him down, he now is saying he wanted to phase in the order, but his 'law enforcement and immigration professionals' told him that would be a major risk of alerting the bad guys to rush into the US.

Who were these law enforcement and immigration professionals? Because we know that the White House did not talk to the State Department, the Justice Department nor the DHS about the Executive Order before it was signed.

(My easiest process -
1) - Order State Department to quietly not issue any new visa's of any kind in ANY country until new guidelines have been put in place,
2) - Order the Justice Department to prepare a list of laws which grant due process rights to non-citizens, and determine which classes of visas can be rejected/ cancelled at US ports of entry,
3) - Order DHS to start rescreening all refugee visa holders from any country upon entry into the US,
4) - Order ICE to start rescreening all refugee visa holders who arrived in the country in the past year,
5) - Order ICE to start rescreening all immigrant visa holders - from those arriving in the US within the past year, through new visa holders,
6) - Quietly setup decent holding facilities for people denied entry under the new rules, and work with the airlines to ensure their quick repatriation - at no additional expense to the visa holder or the airline. If we change the rules after the person has already spent the money to get here, we should cover their costs. (One of the examples that didn't help the court case is that DHS/ICE had no facilities to hold people denied entry, and many airlines had not seats available to carry them back to the country of origin on the next flight - which might be 12-18 hours in some cases for the next flight - a couple days or more for the next available seats. People were held in customs lounges with no provisions made for food, showers, nothing but airport chairs to sleep upon. In some cases DHS/ICE workers went out and bought the people food with the employee personal funds. At some airports there was no food available, so they had to go off the airport to buy that food.)

One thing in the Executive Order which has not been ordered stopped is a requirement to establish a nationwide biometric database of all incoming arrivals in the US, and to establish exit controls to ensure all outgoing persons are added to the biometric database. This will include US citizens in addition to all visa holders/ foreign citizens.

It will allow the DHS/ICE to quickly identify visa overstay persons. One of the big holes in our US system is that visa overstays are not accurately tracked, or investigated.

It will also allow DHS to quickly identify US citizens who have traveled to countries which are terrorism recruiting and training centers, and possible detailed follow-up.
 
Hillis
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Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:25 pm

rfields5421 wrote:
Trump is reminding more every day of the first days of the Jimmy Carter administration.

He is making a lot of the same mistakes, and going down the same path.

Carter came to the White House as a complete outsider, and purposely chose his top aids from people with little or no Washington DC experience. Carter learned his greatest 'enemy' was the Democratic Party leadership in the House and Senate.

Donald Trump is learning that if he does not work with the existing conservative Republican leadership - he is going to get nothing done.

His 'Immigration Ban' is a perfect example of amateurs in action. I can think of a half dozen ways to get the ban into action, and not end up with the court battle he is facing.

Secretary Kelly is being a brave soldier - taking responsibility for the actions of DHS from the moment he took the oath. But he as also said that was the first time he say the Executive Order, when it was signed just before he was sworn in. He was the first person at DHS to see the executive order, but the implementation instructions had already gone out from the White House. We know now that no one in the State Department, the Justice Department or Homeland Security was consulted about the Executive Order.

It was planned as a big PR splash.

The proper way to implement such and order would be to call in the Acting Attorney General, and the nominated Attorney General, and tell them - This is what I want to do, how do we do it legally.

They would have brought up some of the laws which the Executive Order broke. Laws passed by Congress to give those holding Immigrant Visas and Green Cards due process rights. Laws passed by Congress giving refugees some due process rights. Laws passed by Congress giving certain due process rights to holders of several categories of special visas. All holders of these type visa's can be denied entry, can have their visa's cancelled - but it must be on an INDIVIDUAL basis. ICE must present reasons in court why that particular person is no longer eligible for the privileges of that visa.

Trump knows that every aspect of 'Extreme Vetting' his advisors have proposed has already been implemented over the past four years for refugees. He should know that there is not way for anyone from those countries to get a visa to enter the US in a few days or a few weeks. Most take over a year for as simple tourist visa. And H1B visa can take six to nine months. A visa as a student takes at least a year go get. Many of the 'social media' checks, and checks of phone contacts, etc - are already in place.

A refugee visa or an immigrant visa takes two to three years, and positive proof by a US investigator to ensure the person applying for the visa is actually who he/she claims to be.

The Executive Order and implementation were about PR, not about actually accomplishing anything.

Trump said for over a week that the order had to be implemented as a surprise to prevent a 'flood of bad guys' rushing into out country. After the Circuit Court of Appeals turned him down, he now is saying he wanted to phase in the order, but his 'law enforcement and immigration professionals' told him that would be a major risk of alerting the bad guys to rush into the US.

Who were these law enforcement and immigration professionals? Because we know that the White House did not talk to the State Department, the Justice Department nor the DHS about the Executive Order before it was signed.

(My easiest process -
1) - Order State Department to quietly not issue any new visa's of any kind in ANY country until new guidelines have been put in place,
2) - Order the Justice Department to prepare a list of laws which grant due process rights to non-citizens, and determine which classes of visas can be rejected/ cancelled at US ports of entry,
3) - Order DHS to start rescreening all refugee visa holders from any country upon entry into the US,
4) - Order ICE to start rescreening all refugee visa holders who arrived in the country in the past year,
5) - Order ICE to start rescreening all immigrant visa holders - from those arriving in the US within the past year, through new visa holders,
6) - Quietly setup decent holding facilities for people denied entry under the new rules, and work with the airlines to ensure their quick repatriation - at no additional expense to the visa holder or the airline. If we change the rules after the person has already spent the money to get here, we should cover their costs. (One of the examples that didn't help the court case is that DHS/ICE had no facilities to hold people denied entry, and many airlines had not seats available to carry them back to the country of origin on the next flight - which might be 12-18 hours in some cases for the next flight - a couple days or more for the next available seats. People were held in customs lounges with no provisions made for food, showers, nothing but airport chairs to sleep upon. In some cases DHS/ICE workers went out and bought the people food with the employee personal funds. At some airports there was no food available, so they had to go off the airport to buy that food.)

One thing in the Executive Order which has not been ordered stopped is a requirement to establish a nationwide biometric database of all incoming arrivals in the US, and to establish exit controls to ensure all outgoing persons are added to the biometric database. This will include US citizens in addition to all visa holders/ foreign citizens.

It will allow the DHS/ICE to quickly identify visa overstay persons. One of the big holes in our US system is that visa overstays are not accurately tracked, or investigated.

It will also allow DHS to quickly identify US citizens who have traveled to countries which are terrorism recruiting and training centers, and possible detailed follow-up.


Oh, please. Carter didn't play fast and loose with the Constitution, or make everything a confrontation, or accuse the media of only putting out "fake news". Every administration has its growing pains, but this adminstration isn't just making mistakes. The literally don't understand what they're doing or what they've gotten themselves into. You have a POTUS who thought he could act like a Dictator. Carter wasn't like that.
 
Hillis
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Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:28 pm

rfields5421 wrote:
6) - Quietly setup decent holding facilities


Translation: concentration camps. We did that to Japanese-Americans in World War II. Haven't you learned your lessons on that one.

The problem is you, not the refugees. Your so piss-in-your-pants frightened of everyone who has olive skin, that you're willing to sacrifice their rights and our good name for the illusion that you are free from any danger. When you start sacrificing others, in any manner, to save your own skin, you end up in the realm of barbarian.
 
rfields5421
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Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:50 pm

No. I'm simply talking about having a short term room at a hotel. ICE can certainly monitor a family at a hotel until their return flight.

BTW - both of my kids were born outside the he US. One is adopted by me after I went through all the Immigrant Visa BS for him and his mother. She was also the mother of my "natural born citizen" daughter.

I've dealt with immigration many times.

Personally, I think Trump's fear mongering borders on clinical psychosis.

The greatest threat to this country is the erosion of our rights be the conservatives. The ones who says the Constitution doesn't specifically give the s a right to privacy, so anything the conservative politicians do to more closely control us is okay.

Those people never read the things they improperly quote.

Justice Douglas said that from the very start of this nation we the people have had the right to demand the government stay the heck out of our personal lives/ business. He called it a Right to Privacy.

Those who say we do not have a right to privacy are saying the government can pass any law, regulation or policy it wishes to know what we do, who we talk to, what we talk about, etc. That there is no part of our lives in which the government cannot intrude and make us conform.

I think I read a book about that kind of society in high school.
 
rfields5421
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Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:12 am

Hillis wrote:
Oh please. .......Carter wasn't like that.


The first few weeks of Carter's presidency were very much like we have seen. Trying to make the government work without using the government agencies to get things done.

Have you read the actual text of the Executive Orders ?

Only a couple of them have any actual action.

They call for studies of possible action to be taken later.

Most are duplication of work done in the past.

As I noted above, Trump's "Extreme Vetting" ideas have been in place for close to four years.

True the Secretary of DHS said he cannot guarantee the no terrorist will be able to get through. Guess what, Sectetary Kelly, nor any other person Trump appoints, will make that guarantee. It is impossible unless we become like an iron curtain country. We stop all immigration and stop our citizens from traveling to other countries.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:26 am

I'd like to think that if Rubio or Kasich (or even Cruz) had won the general election, today's news would have been VERY different. It's one thing to run on an agenda and see it implemented; it's another to attack the institutions that are checks and balances.

A Kasich administration would have probably gotten far more Democrats to work along with him. A Rubio administration...maybe. A Cruz administration, maybe not, though Cruz at least knows his limits and wouldn't actually pick a fight he knows he can't win.

I certainly would have supported a President Kasich, even though he was a Republican. The fact that he was the adult in the GOP primary and that he's known to work with the other side of the aisle would have actually earned him my vote.

I think Kasich would have swept the Midwest like Trump did while also winning Colorado, Maine, New Hampshire, and Nevada. His margins in all swing states would have been larger so that would have earned him a popular vote victory too.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
User avatar
pvjin
Posts: 3614
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 pm

Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:56 am

tommy1808 wrote:
The USA still may be considered the leader of the free world...

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/ang ... 56986.html

That ship is sailing...

best regards
Thomas


So nowadays you get to be the leader of the free world by importing a lot of freedom hating people into your country while doing your best to censor all criticism towards your policies? Yeah, right.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
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Carp12c
Posts: 89
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Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:14 am

lugie wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
Sorry Kasich and Rubio, but this is how it will work out:
Image



Comrade Jeb will lead this nation back to its glory

Image


Bernie will be 79 in 2020, so Comrade Jeb might lead us back to glory in 2024
 
tommy1808
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Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:02 am

pvjin wrote:
So nowadays you get to be the leader of the free world by importing a lot of freedom hating people into your country


Yup, the leader of the free world is the person that is best in ignoring unfounded racist bs like yours and keep to the facts and the law instead. It is funny to see someone like your criticizing religion, but making racism his own replacement religion and believing all the fairy tales that fit his prejudices. E.g. Sweden as rape capital when in fact crime rates in Sweden across the board are effectively unchanged.

rfields5421 wrote:
Trump knows that every aspect of 'Extreme Vetting' his advisors have proposed has already been implemented over the past four years for refugees. He should know that there is not way for anyone from those countries to get a visa to enter the US in a few days or a few weeks. Most take over a year for as simple tourist visa. And H1B visa can take six to nine months. A visa as a student takes at least a year go get. Many of the 'social media' checks, and checks of phone contacts, etc - are already in place. .


You are talking about a man with mental issues and a taste for perversion. Doesn´t have to be golden showers or raping 13 year old tied up kids, all the pussy grabbing is already enough.
Maybe extreme vetting for him means mandatory waterboarding, just to see if people confess something....

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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pvjin
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Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:39 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Yup, the leader of the free world is the person that is best in ignoring unfounded racist bs like yours and keep to the facts and the law instead. It is funny to see someone like your criticizing religion, but making racism his own replacement religion and believing all the fairy tales that fit his prejudices. E.g. Sweden as rape capital when in fact crime rates in Sweden across the board are effectively unchanged.


I'm not racist, I just don't like seeing my tax money being wasted on people who never contributed to my society. Of course Germans are free to do whatever they want, after all I'm not paying taxes to Germany.

And you know what, I don't oppose religion, not even Islam apart from those forms which promote terrorism. I believe Islam and other conservative religions do good job keeping people away from the kind of SJW nonsense you believe in. Nobody in Islamic world would tolerate me coming to their countries and then disrespecting their culture, they are clearly much more sane than we are.

In terms of reported sexual harassment Sweden has been the harassment capital of Europe for a long time before the refugee crisis even started, so "crime rates remaining unchanged" wouldn't change that status anywhere. Obviously some of the difference compared to other countries might be caused by the differences in how Sweden defines sexual harassment. However, based on the overrepresentation of migrants from Middle East and Africa in sexual crimes, it's perfectly safe to say Sweden's high sexual harassment rate has something to do with immigration also.

In Finland a very high percentage of all rapes is committed by people of East/North African and Middle-Eastern origin. Because there are way more migrants from those areas in Sweden than in Finland in all likelihood the MAJORITY of reported rapes in Sweden are committed by people of such background, assuming their migrants don't magically differ from ours. There's absolutely nothing racist about recognizing this, it's just cultural differences. In some cultures and societies (and subcultures/societies) women have little rights.

As far as these things go I'm the one who's logical here and statistics support my claims, while you prefer burying your head in the sand and pretending all cultures have similar ideas of women's rights. I would suggest you to travel more, perhaps you will then understand that there's more to this planet than just western world and its culture.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
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Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:13 pm

N867DA wrote:
Flighty wrote:
Trump is not even to the right of Hillary.

The Establishment is very angry that Trump won't kiss the ring. Indeed, it may be getting "intolerable."

He respects US citizens, which again, is an outrage. He is "destructive" in the way that a doctor destroys a cyst. In fact, he has a zeal for that. It is horrifying, if you are a cyst.

He should make more effort to respect citizens of all races and creeds. And certainly, he should be a greater promoter of women in leadership. These are vulnerabilities for him.

Believe it or not, I think he should focus on Chicago, eliminating crime there and fixing their financial problems. Then he can run on that for term 2.

Rubio was an Establishment lightweight. His presidency would be the same as an H Clinton presidency. Kasich, not sure.


I am a naturalized citizen and I find in many of Trump's speeches dog whistles that seem like I am not welcome here because I was not born here. The company he keeps and the people he supports illustrates this. I think political marginalization is almost inevitable if you are in the "losing side" of an election but Trump goes an extra step toward alienating newer Americans. George Bush actually cared about all Americans, which does not seem to be true with Trump.

He is anti-net neutrality, rejects global warming, seems to be willing to go along with teaching creationism in schools, and will likely support legislation that will undo decades of environmental conservation.

I don't think any Republican other than Ted Cruz would have been as terrible for America as Donald Trump, but we will survive this too.


You seem to be hearing what you want to hear. Many people on the Left will insist that your citizenship means nothing. That you, as a naturalized US citizen, have the same rights as someone who sneaks in with no papers. Maybe it is just me, but it seems to be that they are the ones insulting you, not DT.
 
Hillis
Posts: 1307
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:19 pm

Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:42 pm

Flighty wrote:
You seem to be hearing what you want to hear. Many people on the Left will insist that your citizenship means nothing. That you, as a naturalized US citizen, have the same rights as someone who sneaks in with no papers. Maybe it is just me, but it seems to be that they are the ones insulting you, not DT.


Why is it that people on the right are always attributing to the left what they themselves are guilty of? It isn't the left who is dumping legal immgrants, especially from Mexico and Central America, with the illegal ones. The "your papers, please" law in Arizona was proof of that. It was the current President who talked about Mexicans being drug dealers and rapists, and lent creedence to eyeing anyone with brown skin as suspicious.

What's insulting is you giving this metally ill pervert a pass all the time.
 
HMK31
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:16 am

Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:28 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
I think Kasich would have swept the Midwest like Trump did while also winning Colorado, Maine, New Hampshire, and Nevada. His margins in all swing states would have been larger so that would have earned him a popular vote victory too.


Agreed, but it's more than just the swing states. Compare Trump's performance in Texas to Romney's, for example... or places like the Atlanta suburbs, Phoenix area, or Orange County (CA). Trump substantially underperformed generic Republican numbers in these regions. Fortunately for him, of course, his losses among soft-Romney voters mostly did not matter in the Electoral College, which is why he could still win the election while losing the Popular Vote by a significant margin.

Funnily enough, I read that the Clinton campaign & DNC were terrified of a scenario where Trump won the popular vote but lost the electoral college. For this reason, they spent considerable amounts of money trying to run up margins in places like New Orleans and Chicago.

The strategy is ridiculous on its face, as that scenario (Trump winning the Popular Vote, but not the Electoral College) is nearly impossible, and demonstrates just one of the many misfires made by the Clinton campaign.
 
N867DA
Posts: 1116
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 12:53 am

Re: Kasich or Rubio: Where would we be now?

Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:49 pm

Flighty wrote:
N867DA wrote:
Flighty wrote:
Trump is not even to the right of Hillary.

The Establishment is very angry that Trump won't kiss the ring. Indeed, it may be getting "intolerable."

He respects US citizens, which again, is an outrage. He is "destructive" in the way that a doctor destroys a cyst. In fact, he has a zeal for that. It is horrifying, if you are a cyst.

He should make more effort to respect citizens of all races and creeds. And certainly, he should be a greater promoter of women in leadership. These are vulnerabilities for him.

Believe it or not, I think he should focus on Chicago, eliminating crime there and fixing their financial problems. Then he can run on that for term 2.

Rubio was an Establishment lightweight. His presidency would be the same as an H Clinton presidency. Kasich, not sure.


I am a naturalized citizen and I find in many of Trump's speeches dog whistles that seem like I am not welcome here because I was not born here. The company he keeps and the people he supports illustrates this. I think political marginalization is almost inevitable if you are in the "losing side" of an election but Trump goes an extra step toward alienating newer Americans. George Bush actually cared about all Americans, which does not seem to be true with Trump.

He is anti-net neutrality, rejects global warming, seems to be willing to go along with teaching creationism in schools, and will likely support legislation that will undo decades of environmental conservation.

I don't think any Republican other than Ted Cruz would have been as terrible for America as Donald Trump, but we will survive this too.


You seem to be hearing what you want to hear. Many people on the Left will insist that your citizenship means nothing. That you, as a naturalized US citizen, have the same rights as someone who sneaks in with no papers. Maybe it is just me, but it seems to be that they are the ones insulting you, not DT.


On face value, you're right. I dislike the media's use of the catch-all term "immigrant" for everyone who moves here regardless of legal status. The left insults legal immigrants by forcing parity with illegal immigrants, but the new outright right scares all the (legal) immigrants I know. They new right is hellbent on nationalism and closing America off to the world, which is a foreign concept to people who have migrated from one continent to another in the twentieth century. Our attorney general is on record against even legal immigration, just like the president. While we have our economic problems this country is hardly densely populated, so what conclusions should legal immigrants draw from this rhetoric?
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