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apodino
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If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:02 pm

I have taken an interest in foreign politics in recent weeks. I am always intrigued and entertained watching a session of the British House of Commons, and it got me thinking about a few questions.

1. Would the US benefit from a weekly congressional questions to the president segment that works very similar to Prime Ministers questions? I was thinking about this watching the entertaining exchanges between Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn and imagining if Trump had to face questions weekly from Pelosi and Schumer in a public setting, and going back if Obama had to face questions from Ryan, McConnell? How much better would our democracy be?

2. The Executive and Legislative branches in the UK are largely intertwined, where there are mostly separate in the US (Aside from the VP role as president of the senate) Typically in the UK one party controls both functions as a result, where in the US they are more separate. The one thing I see here is because of the geography of the US, if we had a parliamentary government instead of a federal republic, it would be very difficult for the Democratic Party to ever attain power just because there are way more red states. But this would also meek each congressional race much more important.

3. Observing the British Parliament, it seems to me lobbyists have much less influence on government in the UK than they do in the US, where they might as well be the ones actually running congress. There is far greater concern for constituents in the UK than in the US. Special interests seem to have a lesser role, and campaign financing really isn't a problem in the UK they way it corrupts in the US. I think this is much healthier for democracy, and I was wondering what a constitutional amendment would look like to reign in campaign funding.

Thoughts on this? I want our government to work better, and its only getting worse, and I am looking at other nations to see how its gone.
 
jetwet1
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:51 pm

1: That would be amusing to say the least,
2: The separation of the 3 branches of government is something I find critical .
3: Yes, but for how long, it seems the worst parts of the US society seem to make it over to the UK in the end.

Just to note, I shared a link to the parliament feed a few days ago during question time, my American friends were floored by it.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:57 pm

The way to fix the US government is to impose legislative term limits, and to abolish political parties as a whole. Trump has proposed the first one while he was campaigning. Let's see if he'll hold up to that.
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coolian2
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:29 pm

Questions for oral answer would be must see viewing.
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Aesma
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:42 pm

In France we have both a President and a Prime Minister, there are weekly questions to the government (Tuesday and Wednesday for the MPs, two Thursdays a month for Senators). They can be entertaining and interesting, but there is too much show and not enough substance. Ministers can easily sidestep questions. It has become common for the opposition or even the majority to walk out loudly when an attack was deemed out of line, even though they throw mud relentlessly.

It's still better than only having journalists ask the tough questions, nobody voted for these journalists after all.

Democracy is self correcting, only in Japan and totalitarian states can one party keep power for decades. Besides, the problem is not how people vote, but rather extreme gerrymandering. You can also have a system where every vote counts equally, regardless of where it was cast in the country, like in Germany : seats apportioned proportionally.

Lobbying happens in Brussels. But at least it's well regulated, and money is much less of an issue in european campaigns. I rather quite like the rules that we have in France, they're draconian but at least we don't get a barrage of political ads for months on end, and every candidate, even the smallest one, gets significant air time.
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coolian2
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:31 pm

Aesma wrote:
In France we have both a President and a Prime Minister, there are weekly questions to the government (Tuesday and Wednesday for the MPs, two Thursdays a month for Senators). They can be entertaining and interesting, but there is too much show and not enough substance. Ministers can easily sidestep questions. It has become common for the opposition or even the majority to walk out loudly when an attack was deemed out of line, even though they throw mud relentlessly.

The problem here is when party members ask their own ministers questions to brag about policy.
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BawliBooch
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:14 am

Please! Those Brits would be speaking German if it werent for us going there to save their sorry arses!

The Congress is becoming too much like their Parliament. Shut down Capitol Hill, and transfer all powers to the Supreme Leader! Thats how Govt's are supposed to function!
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coolian2
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:33 am

BawliBooch wrote:
Please! Those Brits would be speaking German if it werent for us going there to save their sorry arses!

The Congress is becoming too much like their Parliament. Shut down Capitol Hill, and transfer all powers to the Supreme Leader! Thats how Govt's are supposed to function!

Ah, that's what the ignore list is for.
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Kiwirob
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:50 am

Aesma wrote:

Democracy is self correcting, only in Japan and totalitarian states can one party keep power for decades. Besides, the problem is not how people vote, but rather extreme gerrymandering. You can also have a system where every vote counts equally, regardless of where it was cast in the country, like in Germany : seats apportioned proportionally.


I wouldn't call Sweden a totalitarian state but the Social Democrate Party have been in power almost continiously since 1921.
 
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Dano1977
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:32 am

apodino wrote:
I have taken an interest in foreign politics in recent weeks. I am always intrigued and entertained watching a session of the British House of Commons, and it got me thinking about a few questions.

1. Would the US benefit from a weekly congressional questions to the president segment that works very similar to Prime Ministers questions? I was thinking about this watching the entertaining exchanges between Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn and imagining if Trump had to face questions weekly from Pelosi and Schumer in a public setting, and going back if Obama had to face questions from Ryan, McConnell? How much better would our democracy be?

2. The Executive and Legislative branches in the UK are largely intertwined, where there are mostly separate in the US (Aside from the VP role as president of the senate) Typically in the UK one party controls both functions as a result, where in the US they are more separate. The one thing I see here is because of the geography of the US, if we had a parliamentary government instead of a federal republic, it would be very difficult for the Democratic Party to ever attain power just because there are way more red states. But this would also meek each congressional race much more important.

3. Observing the British Parliament, it seems to me lobbyists have much less influence on government in the UK than they do in the US, where they might as well be the ones actually running congress. There is far greater concern for constituents in the UK than in the US. Special interests seem to have a lesser role, and campaign financing really isn't a problem in the UK they way it corrupts in the US. I think this is much healthier for democracy, and I was wondering what a constitutional amendment would look like to reign in campaign funding.

Thoughts on this? I want our government to work better, and its only getting worse, and I am looking at other nations to see how its gone.



It's amazing how it comes across.

Over here PMQ's (Prime Ministers Questions) is seen as a bit of a joke and untrained animals at a zoo with all the shouting and boos.

But on the flip side it does give you an insight into the 2 main political part leaders.

William Hague (Former conservative party leader) used to make mincemeat of Tony Blair during PMQ's and at some points it was just embarrassing to watch - Yet Hague never became Prime Minister and Teflon Tony was PM for 10 years and became a war criminal.

David Cameron was great at PMQ's - But a £30,000 year Eton education and Oxford University, he should have been.

Current PM, Theresa May has been a bit hit and miss, but she is against Jeremy Corbyn who is a bit of a wally so doesn't really matter.
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mariner
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:43 am

coolian2 wrote:
The problem here is when party members ask their own ministers questions to brag about policy.


I like that. I like hearing what the government thinks it is doing unfiltered by the media, which, at least is Australia, is largely right of centre and, these days, dominated by commentators who don't even try to disguise their own agenda.

I accept that the government's responses to some of those questions may be a bit fanciful, but even that helps me get a sense of balance.

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par13del
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:55 pm

The functionality of PMQ is seen in the USA on a daily basis, simply visit any of the State Governments when they are in session, the numerous county boards etc., just not as interesting since they bring things down to the local level.
What makes PMQ sessions in the UK parliament so interesting is the central government, the amount of powers "devolved" out of the UK government pales in comparison to the USA, when the primary foundation of the Federal Government is that any power, not expressly transferred to the Feds resides with the States. Yes there are local councils who for the most part can be overridden by the central government, but the number of things that states can do that have nothing to do with the Feds does raise it a level.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:06 pm

Almost every world issue or failure has a British hand in it, starting from Americas, India-Pakistan, Malaysia-Singapore and Israel-Palestine are just few examples. Watch John Oliver's comments on Colbert.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJR9Qje ... u.be&t=318

You guys cannot even run EK with so much money Emir pouring in.

What makes you think you have better system or you are qualified.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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Dano1977
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:47 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Almost every world issue or failure has a British hand in it, starting from Americas, India-Pakistan, Malaysia-Singapore and Israel-Palestine are just few examples. Watch John Oliver's comments on Colbert.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJR9Qje ... u.be&t=318

You guys cannot even run EK with so much money Emir pouring in.

What makes you think you have better system or you are qualified.



You missed one...

Concentration Camps
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coolian2
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:22 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Almost every world issue or failure has a British hand in it, starting from Americas, India-Pakistan, Malaysia-Singapore and Israel-Palestine are just few examples. Watch John Oliver's comments on Colbert.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJR9Qje ... u.be&t=318

You guys cannot even run EK with so much money Emir pouring in.

What makes you think you have better system or you are qualified.

This post is like saying the UK isn't worth dealing with because of the New Zealand land wars which were, if I recall, an EXCEPTIONALLY long time ago.
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UltimoTiger777
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:25 am

Here in the UK, if the government cannot pass its budget, it must resign and either parties in parliament try to form a new government or they have to call an election.

In the US, if the government doesn't pass its budget, everything shuts down. Seems a really stupid way to run the worlds biggest economy.

dtw2hyd wrote:
Almost every world issue or failure has a British hand in it, starting from Americas, India-Pakistan, Malaysia-Singapore and Israel-Palestine are just few examples. Watch John Oliver's comments on Colbert.


You know, when it's nearly 60 years since you ditched most of your colonial empire, it's time for the people living in those places to start accepting responsibility for their own inadequacies isn't it?

Also, how are Singapore and Malaysia failures? Two very prosperous place are they not?

dtw2hyd wrote:

What makes you think you have better system or you are qualified.


Well for a start we don't have our country coming to a standstill due to the government not being able to pass a budget.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:21 am

UltimoTiger777 wrote:
You know, when it's nearly 60 years since you ditched most of your colonial empire, it's time for the people living in those places to start accepting responsibility for their own inadequacies isn't it?

Also, how are Singapore and Malaysia failures? Two very prosperous place are they not?


I suppose first line is about India, isn't India's economy bigger than yours?

In case you missed the memo, Malays don't like you guys.

Where ever Brits went they created a mess, deliberately split countries or create conflicts between regions when they were asked to leave.

The only two skills left are Kings English and Astroturfing. First one has no value, not sure how you guys will survive just on one skill.

UltimoTiger777 wrote:
Well for a start we don't have our country coming to a standstill due to the government not being able to pass a budget.


No it won't, Congress will pass a continuing resolution to have essential government functions in place.

BTW, there wouldn't be any need to respond if Brits weren't gloating enough to start a thread.
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bgm
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:22 am

The problem with the US government system is how little interaction they have with the people that voted for them. The politicians need to be kept on their toes at all times. This way it keeps them (a little more) honest.

Term limits definitely are a good idea. That's probably one of the few things I agree with Trump on.
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:43 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
I suppose first line is about India, isn't India's economy bigger than yours?

In case you missed the memo, Malays don't like you guys.

Where ever Brits went they created a mess, deliberately split countries or create conflicts between regions when they were asked to leave.

The only two skills left are Kings English and Astroturfing. First one has no value, not sure how you guys will survive just on one skill.


Salt for the chip on your shoulder sir?

I won't deny that the British have messed up almost everything, but they've also done plenty of positive things.

But the more important point is that the people that messed things up are dead. Gone. And blaming the current British population for the actions of perhaps 1% of the population that are now long gone just says that you hold a grudge and think the sons should be punished for their fathers' actions. As UltimotTger1977 says, it's been many decades since the Empire ceased to exist, and some of the countries are still basket cases. At some point they have to take responsibility for their actions, it's not like the British force(d) different religions to hate each other, they get plenty of mileage out of that on their own.

Anyway on topic:

I find it strange that the British government would be considered an improvement, but it probably is marginally better than the US one, but nothing worth shouting about, it's still unfair in the way it votes (first past the post), but having constituencies makes politicians a bit more liable to their electorate, if the electorate in your constituency don't like you or your policies, they vote you out. At the individual politician level that is an improvement on the US one where votes are sorted by relatively large states.
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:09 am

MrHMSH wrote:
I won't deny that the British have messed up almost everything, but they've also done plenty of positive things.

Absolutely! So what if the British created minor problems by playing divide-and-rule politics between Hindus & Muslims (which they did in other parts of their empire as well BTW), which directly led to the Partition of India and left festering sores that affect India even today? They gave us the Railways and ofcourse the English language! Where would Satyendar aka Steve be today if it werent for the English language? Probably working as a coolie in Gurgaon station instead of a hep HP Call Center! Seriously! Why are Indian's so ungrateful?

MrHMSH wrote:
But the more important point is that the people that messed things up are dead. Gone. And blaming the current British population for the actions of perhaps 1% of the population that are now long gone just says that you hold a grudge and think the sons should be punished for their fathers' actions. As UltimotTger1977 says, it's been many decades since the Empire ceased to exist, and some of the countries are still basket cases. At some point they have to take responsibility for their actions, it's not like the British force(d) different religions to hate each other, they get plenty of mileage out of that on their own.

Bit of a stretch there. No one is blaming the current generation for the sins of their ancestors. But lets just acknowledge that mistakes were made? Is that too much to ask?

MrHMSH wrote:
I find it strange that the British government would be considered an improvement, but it probably is marginally better than the US one, but nothing worth shouting about, it's still unfair in the way it votes (first past the post), but having constituencies makes politicians a bit more liable to their electorate, if the electorate in your constituency don't like you or your policies, they vote you out. At the individual politician level that is an improvement on the US one where votes are sorted by relatively large states.


The first-past-the-post system has its merits, especially in a culturally diverse country like India allowing representation people of all caste, creed & language. But its not without its weaknesses, especially when you have 5 dozen political parties. As we found in 2014, it also allows Votes to be split enabling someone with a mere 31% of the vote to get a thumping majority and become Prime Minister!

So while the American system is flawed, I dont think they should replicate the Winchester model. American people must strive to mould a new system that works on the deficiencies of the current system while enabling representation to all sections of its diverse population.
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MrHMSH
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:38 am

BawliBooch wrote:
Absolutely! So what if the British created minor problems by playing divide-and-rule politics between Hindus & Muslims (which they did in other parts of their empire as well BTW), which directly led to the Partition of India and left festering sores that affect India even today? They gave us the Railways and ofcourse the English language! Where would Satyendar aka Steve be today if it werent for the English language? Probably working as a coolie in Gurgaon station instead of a hep HP Call Center! Seriously! Why are Indian's so ungrateful?


You're putting words in my mouth, I didn't suggest India should be grateful. How about you actually respond to what I say and not what you want me to say so you can rant? I just think that it was not universally bad, things are rarely so straightforward, as much as you'd clearly like to blame others for everything.

Anyway, India and Pakistan have been independent for decades. No one's forcing them to hate each other. I'm afraid that continued bitterness is their own doing. It's not like religious conflict started with colonialism, it's been around as long as religions themselves.


Bit of a stretch there. No one is blaming the current generation for the sins of their ancestors. But lets just acknowledge that mistakes were made? Is that too much to ask?


Er...

MrHMSH wrote:

I won't deny that the British have messed up almost everything, but they've also done plenty of positive things.



The first-past-the-post system has its merits, especially in a culturally diverse country like India allowing representation people of all caste, creed & language. But its not without its weaknesses, especially when you have 5 dozen political parties. As we found in 2014, it also allows Votes to be split enabling someone with a mere 31% of the vote to get a thumping majority and become Prime Minister!

So while the American system is flawed, I dont think they should replicate the Winchester model. American people must strive to mould a new system that works on the deficiencies of the current system while enabling representation to all sections of its diverse population.


I'd prefer proportional representation, it's fairer although it can be tricky to get functioning governments if parties don't agree: they never do.

Point of pedantry: it's Westminster government, not Winchester.
 
cpd
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:12 am

coolian2 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
In France we have both a President and a Prime Minister, there are weekly questions to the government (Tuesday and Wednesday for the MPs, two Thursdays a month for Senators). They can be entertaining and interesting, but there is too much show and not enough substance. Ministers can easily sidestep questions. It has become common for the opposition or even the majority to walk out loudly when an attack was deemed out of line, even though they throw mud relentlessly.

The problem here is when party members ask their own ministers questions to brag about policy.


Oh, the Dorothy Dixer.

"I ask the Honourable ___________ to outline his/her efforts on _____________"

And usually followed by:

"I thank my friend the Honourable __________ for his/her question. We are / I have _____________"

Usually followed by howls of protest or rolled eyes from the other side of the chamber.


What is wrong with the American system, and probably Australia too is that big businesses and lobbyists have far too much influence. And it would be extremely important to reduce the influence of Government on the courts. Judges should be making decisions based on the law, not based on their own moral, religious or political beliefs.
 
coolian2
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:29 am

cpd wrote:
coolian2 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
In France we have both a President and a Prime Minister, there are weekly questions to the government (Tuesday and Wednesday for the MPs, two Thursdays a month for Senators). They can be entertaining and interesting, but there is too much show and not enough substance. Ministers can easily sidestep questions. It has become common for the opposition or even the majority to walk out loudly when an attack was deemed out of line, even though they throw mud relentlessly.

The problem here is when party members ask their own ministers questions to brag about policy.


Oh, the Dorothy Dixer.

"I ask the Honourable ___________ to outline his/her efforts on _____________"

And usually followed by:

"I thank my friend the Honourable __________ for his/her question. We are / I have _____________"

Usually followed by howls of protest or rolled eyes from the other side of the chamber.


What is wrong with the American system, and probably Australia too is that big businesses and lobbyists have far too much influence. And it would be extremely important to reduce the influence of Government on the courts. Judges should be making decisions based on the law, not based on their own moral, religious or political beliefs.

I would love someone to ask Donald Trump "Mr President, do you stand by all your statements?"

I love that I can message my MP on Twitter or Facebook and not only will they reply, it will not be some aide or lackey. I think that also speaks to NZ culture - if we see a politician out campaigning, we will harass/support them. If they're in the supermarket with a baguette and a bottle of milk, we'll pretty much ignore them. That makes them more willing to personally engage on social media.
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dtw2hyd
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:06 pm

MrHMSH wrote:

Salt for the chip on your shoulder sir?

Again, no thread no response, this one is on OP.

MrHMSH wrote:
I won't deny that the British have messed up almost everything, but they've also done plenty of positive things.

But the more important point is that the people that messed things up are dead. Gone. And blaming the current British population for the actions of perhaps 1% of the population that are now long gone just says that you hold a grudge and think the sons should be punished for their fathers' actions.


Ok, what are UK's modern day contributions to the world?

Daily Mail and 100 other tabloids (or) Broadsheet papers (or) The Economist (or) Brand image management companies (or) Richard Quest!!! You cannot manipulate the world by managing the information.

What about the hypocrisy of having SFO but same time involved in several cases of bribery through out the world.

When you enjoyed few hundred years or few decades on a host, don't make a mess when you are asked to leave, I am not talking about past, I am talking about EU and EK.
All posts are just opinions.
 
coolian2
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:11 pm

You're ridiculous
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MrHMSH
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:33 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:

Ok, what are UK's modern day contributions to the world?
.

A scapegoat who people can blame everything else on so they don't have to take the blame themselves! I didn't say that they still do contribute a lot, but as this is an aviation site I think you'll agree that the UK contributes a fair amount to the aviation industry.

Daily Mail and 100 other tabloids (or) Broadsheet papers (or) The Economist (or) Brand image management companies (or) Richard Quest!!! You cannot manipulate the world by managing the information.


Everyone does that. Hardly just a UK phenomenon.

What about the hypocrisy of having SFO but same time involved in several cases of bribery through out the world.


Not just UK, but our politicians are hypocrites and liars, it's what they do and it's hard to change that. I don't approve of how our politicians operate, and that hypocrisy is one of the reasons why I don't vote for any of them, at least for now.

When you enjoyed few hundred years or few decades on a host, don't make a mess when you are asked to leave, I am not talking about past, I am talking about EU and UK.


I'm sure everyone wants the best deal possible, but qué será será. I didn't vote for Brexit, just FYI.
 
LAH1
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:42 pm

Ok, what are UK's modern day contributions to the world?


Well Alan Turing with computers for a start, and then there's Tim Berners Lee who invented the world wide web. Sir Frank Whittle invented the jet engine almost single handed. So these three stack up quite nicely on the UK side as contributions to the modern world.
 
GDB
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:43 pm

The usual suspect on here asks what the UK's contribution is to the modern world?
How about inventing it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMV3E7wb24c

Today, well in terms of population the UK still, to use that dreadful but accurate phrase 'punches above it's weight' in science, Nobel Prizes and often not so noticed, what the US calls 'soft power', that is in culture, high and populist, from Shakespeare to Sherlock, from Newton to Hawking, in fact is probably only second to the US in that regard - to give an example how many of Disney's films that made them so rich were based on British stories often written for children decades before the movies?
There was a reason why Danny Boyle chose to highlight this alongside the industrial revolution? The two were intertwined (as was the expansion of Empire).

Post Imperial Britain (which also became a much better place for most of it's own people to live in too) has retained and in some cases expanded it's cultural reach, a certain poster on here can hate us all he wants, fact is he has been at least partly and positively shaped by all of this.

To PMQ's, not always the best way to see Parliament in action, often it's more often the Select Committees (which have more in common with US practice), it says a lot that the current Leader Of The Opposition, aside from being a stubborn fool, in his near 34 years as a MP has not only never been even a Shadow Minister - let alone an actual one when his party were in Government - but has never sat on one of these. Reason being he's not that bright.
But Parliament can host serious debates, most often when it's across party lines on an issue.
 
UltimoTiger777
Posts: 458
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:04 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
I suppose first line is about India, isn't India's economy bigger than yours?

In case you missed the memo, Malays don't like you guys.


Indeed India's economy is bigger than ours. Unfortunately that doesn't alter some of the underlying problems there does it?

Also, last time I checked Malaysia and the UK enjoy very warm relations even if the former Malaysian Prime Minister was a conspiracy theory loving imbecile anti-semite.

dtw2hyd wrote:
The only two skills left are Kings English and Astroturfing. First one has no value, not sure how you guys will survive just on one skill.


English has no value, expect for being the third most spoken language in the world after Mandarin and Spanish.

dtw2hyd wrote:
No it won't, Congress will pass a continuing resolution to have essential government functions in place.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_a ... wn_of_2013

You were saying? What a pathetic system.

And why do you keep bringing up Emirates? Emirates isn't run by the British government.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:53 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
A scapegoat who people can blame everything else on so they don't have to take the blame themselves! I didn't say that they still do contribute a lot, but as this is an aviation site I think you'll agree that the UK contributes a fair amount to the aviation industry.

And UK deserves credit for its contribution to aviation, but it appears collectively the country decided, making and supporting jet engines is too much hard work, lets make money through astroturfing.

MrHMSH wrote:
Everyone does that. Hardly just a UK phenomenon.

Not just UK, but our politicians are hypocrites and liars, it's what they do and it's hard to change that. I don't approve of how our politicians operate, and that hypocrisy is one of the reasons why I don't vote for any of them, at least for now.

I'm sure everyone wants the best deal possible, but qué será será. I didn't vote for Brexit, just FYI.


Bottom line there are no bad countries or bad people, there are just bad leaders.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:05 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
And UK deserves credit for its contribution to aviation, but it appears collectively the country decided, making and supporting jet engines is too much hard work, lets make money through astroturfing.


Quite a U-turn from scoffing at the UK's contribution. But you should let Airbus know that the UK is too lazy to make jet engines. The A330neo and A350 appear to be at risk.

Bottom line there are no bad countries or bad people, there are just bad leaders.


I'm glad you realise that. So when you want to make an observation or opinion, you won't lazily say 'the British' when you know full well that it's not a national trait, but an individual's trait.
 
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Dano1977
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:00 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:

Salt for the chip on your shoulder sir?

Again, no thread no response, this one is on OP.

MrHMSH wrote:
I won't deny that the British have messed up almost everything, but they've also done plenty of positive things.

But the more important point is that the people that messed things up are dead. Gone. And blaming the current British population for the actions of perhaps 1% of the population that are now long gone just says that you hold a grudge and think the sons should be punished for their fathers' actions.


Ok, what are UK's modern day contributions to the world?

Daily Mail and 100 other tabloids (or) Broadsheet papers (or) The Economist (or) Brand image management companies (or) Richard Quest!!! You cannot manipulate the world by managing the information.

What about the hypocrisy of having SFO but same time involved in several cases of bribery through out the world.

When you enjoyed few hundred years or few decades on a host, don't make a mess when you are asked to leave, I am not talking about past, I am talking about EU and EK.



1963 - High strength carbon fibre is invented by engineers at the Royal Aircraft Establishment
1964 - The first theory of the Higgs boson is put forward by Peter Higgs, a particle-physics theorist at the University of Edinburgh, and five other physicists
1966 - The cash machine and personal identification number system are patented by James Goodfellow
1969 - The first carbon fibre fabric in the world is weaved in Stockport, England
1970 - Clifford Cocks develops the algorithm for the RSA cipher while working at the Government Communications Headquarters, approximately three years before it was independently developed by Rivest, Shamir and Adleman at MIT. The British government declassified the 1973 invention in 1997

1977 - Steptoe and Edwards successfully carried out a pioneering conception which resulted in the birth of the world's first baby to be conceived by IVF, Louise Brown on 25 July 1978, in Oldham General Hospital, Greater Manchester, UK

1984 - DNA profiling is discovered by Sir Alec Jeffreys at the University of Leicester.
One of the world's first computer games to use 3D graphics, Elite, is developed by David Braben and Ian Bell.

1989 - Sir Tim Berners-Lee writes a proposal for what will become the World Wide Web. The following year, he specified HTML, the hypertext language, and HTTP, the protocol.
The Touchpad pointing device is first developed for Psion computers.

1991 - A patent for an iris recognition algorithm is filed by John Daugman while working at the University of Cambridge which became the basis of all publicly deployed iris recognition systems.
The source code for the world's first web browser, called WorldWideWeb (later renamed Nexus to avoid confusion with the World Wide Web), is released into the public domain by Sir Tim Berners-Lee.

1992 - The first SMS message in the world is sent over the UK's GSM network.

1993 -
1997 - Scottish scientists at the Roslin Institute in Edinburgh, produce the first mammal cloned from an adult cell
The ThrustSSC jet-propelled car, designed and built in England, sets the land speed record.

2003 - Graphene is isolated from graphite at the University of Manchester by Andre Geim and Konstantin Novoselov

2005 - The design for a machine to lay rail track, the "Trac Rail Transposer", is patented and goes on to be used by Network Rail in the United Kingdom and the New York Subway in the United States

2012 - Raspberry Pi, a single-board computer, is launched and quickly becomes popular for education in programming and computer science.


To name a few achievements
The average EU official - he has the organising ability of the Italians, the flexibility of the Germans and the modesty of the French. And that's topped up by the imagination of the Belgians, the generosity of the Dutch.
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:58 am

Impressive achievements!

And yet, Britain has failed to make its own airliner design in decades preferring to mooch off European projects instead.

Their space-programme failed to send a rocket into space after the abortive "Black Arrow" project of the 60's preferring to mooch off the Americans.

Britain WAS a great country. The center of technological achievement & culture. But that is ancient history. Today Britain is a wooden horse placed in Europe to keep an eye on those marauding Gauls.

Why should America seek to model itself on a Trojan Horse?
Mr.Kapoor's favorite poodle!
 
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Dano1977
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:52 am

BawliBooch wrote:
Impressive achievements!

And yet, Britain has failed to make its own airliner design in decades preferring to mooch off European projects instead.

Their space-programme failed to send a rocket into space after the abortive "Black Arrow" project of the 60's preferring to mooch off the Americans.

Britain WAS a great country. The center of technological achievement & culture. But that is ancient history. Today Britain is a wooden horse placed in Europe to keep an eye on those marauding Gauls.

Why should America seek to model itself on a Trojan Horse?


It could be argued ....

Before Airbus?
When was Germany's last airliner designed, built and flew? VFW Fokker 614? Thousands flew off the production line
When was Frances last airliner designed, built and flew? Dassault Mercure? Rousing success with 12 built


Before European Space Agency
How many men did France put up into space?
How many men did Germany put up into space?


Was America a Trojan horse in the UK?

The MRI body scanner - John Mallard and James Huchinson from (1974–1980)
Head-up display (HUD) - The Royal Aircraft Establishment (RAE) designed the first equipment and it was built by Cintel with the system first integrated into the Blackburn Buccaneer.
The first discovery of aluminium - Sir Humphry Davy
Pioneer in early Solar Power - Weston cell - Edward Weston (chemist)
Penicillin: Sir Alexander Fleming
Discovering insulin - John J R Macleod (1876–1935) with others
Viagra - Peter Dunn, Albert Wood, Dr Nicholas Terrett
Computed Tomography (CT scanner) - Godfrey Newbold Hounsfield
Float Glass - Alastair Pilkington - Modern Glass manufacturing process

But without some wonderful British inventions - Where is your space programme or Commercial airliners?
It could be be argued eventually you would have got their in the end - but at what cost?

Must be nice to "Mooch" of a poor relation?

So we may not design, build and produce our own airliners or have a billion $ space programme - But what we have done is a set of fantastic achievements, which has probably done more for humankind than a Space programme would have given us
The average EU official - he has the organising ability of the Italians, the flexibility of the Germans and the modesty of the French. And that's topped up by the imagination of the Belgians, the generosity of the Dutch.
 
GDB
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:28 am

Something not many know about but was of great significance;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tizard_Mission
 
LAH1
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:42 am

BawliBooch wrote:
Impressive achievements!

And yet, Britain has failed to make its own airliner design in decades preferring to mooch off European projects instead.

Their space-programme failed to send a rocket into space after the abortive "Black Arrow" project of the 60's preferring to mooch off the Americans.

Britain WAS a great country. The center of technological achievement & culture. But that is ancient history. Today Britain is a wooden horse placed in Europe to keep an eye on those marauding Gauls.

Why should America seek to model itself on a Trojan Horse?


Another poster here signs himself off with a description of your post - Bollocks.

WAS a great country and "ancient history?? I think there's enough info above here to firmly place your post into the bollocks and troll bin.
Have to hand it to you though, I'm still smiling at the fact you think someone might take you seriously, thanks for that on a cold grey day here.
 
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Aesma
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:57 pm

The economic system we're living in right now has been invented by the US and UK together, let's not forget this. It's all going down in flames, and who are the first to react ? The UK (Brexit) and the US (Trump). They're leaving the boat they built for all of us, and steered towards the rocks.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
UltimoTiger777
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:15 pm

Aesma wrote:
The economic system we're living in right now has been invented by the US and UK together, let's not forget this. It's all going down in flames, and who are the first to react ? The UK (Brexit) and the US (Trump). They're leaving the boat they built for all of us, and steered towards the rocks.


There is absolutely zero chance of neo-liberal free market economics being replaced anytime soon.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 9082
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:51 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
But you should let Airbus know that the UK is too lazy to make jet engines. The A330neo and A350 appear to be at risk.

That's up to Airbus once you guys exit the union in style. You cannot have it both ways correct, if you don't want to be part of the union you won't get single market access.

Why did RR fix 100 Trents, even though it is ANA''s fault not noticing blade corrosion for four years. In four years ANA mx never stick a borescope in to the engine? Imagine if this was Air India, we would be talking about their maintenance practices. Who ever throws the tantrum gets the candy.

I'm glad you realise that. So when you want to make an observation or opinion, you won't lazily say 'the British' when you know full well that it's not a national trait, but an individual's trait.


But it is perfectly fine to call entire America protectionist or India is corrupt.

It is clear that UK is becoming one stop shot for Astroturfing. You have the tabloids, main stream media, retired Oxford/Cambridge intellectuals, auditors, brand management companies, rating agencies, well written document templates and everything else to create a perfect alternate reality.

All one has to do is just hire British management, you can put a performance far superior than Matirx or Inception.
All posts are just opinions.
 
UltimoTiger777
Posts: 458
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:23 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
That's up to Airbus once you guys exit the union in style. You cannot have it both ways correct, if you don't want to be part of the union you won't get single market access.


Airbus has designed the A330neo and the A350 to use RR Trents exclusively. Unless they want to spend lots of money redesigning them, that isn't going to change very soon.
 
Bongodog1964
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:53 pm

If the US political system acted more like the UK system, Congress could hold a vote of no confidence in the President, and you would have a new one elected by national poll and in office inside 4 weeks. Alternately if the President decided to go quietly, the Republican Party could decide on a new leader and replace the President inside a week.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15718
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:06 pm

The USA government structure takes a lot from the original British Parliamentary structure but the USA could learn some lessons from the more modern UK form.
Parties have the power to promote persons for leadership positions and keep outsiders (like Trump) out.
Much less money spent on campaigns as well as much shorter (weeks vs. years).
Easier to change leadership on shorter notice rather than have to wait years or use an intentionally difficult Impeachment process perhaps as this previous poster suggested:
Bongodog1964 wrote:
If the US political system acted more like the UK system, Congress could hold a vote of no confidence in the President, and you would have a new one elected by national poll and in office inside 4 weeks. Alternately if the President decided to go quietly, the Republican Party could decide on a new leader and replace the President inside a week.

In effect this would mean resignation, kinda of what happened with Nixon when facing Impeachment proceedings, fellow Republicans demanded Nixon to resign. Of course, it would have been used against the last 3 Presidents for various reasons and politics.

I would love to see a regularly scheduled 'Question Time' of the President (and VP) by a rotating group in joint Senate/House of Representatives committee with an Oath requirement, with public access to view the proceedings. Right now the President tells the Senate/House what they want with no real direct response or questioning. Someone like Obama would have done pretty well, Trump...well not so much.
 
apodino
Topic Author
Posts: 4076
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:10 pm

Dano1977 wrote:
apodino wrote:
I have taken an interest in foreign politics in recent weeks. I am always intrigued and entertained watching a session of the British House of Commons, and it got me thinking about a few questions.

1. Would the US benefit from a weekly congressional questions to the president segment that works very similar to Prime Ministers questions? I was thinking about this watching the entertaining exchanges between Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn and imagining if Trump had to face questions weekly from Pelosi and Schumer in a public setting, and going back if Obama had to face questions from Ryan, McConnell? How much better would our democracy be?

2. The Executive and Legislative branches in the UK are largely intertwined, where there are mostly separate in the US (Aside from the VP role as president of the senate) Typically in the UK one party controls both functions as a result, where in the US they are more separate. The one thing I see here is because of the geography of the US, if we had a parliamentary government instead of a federal republic, it would be very difficult for the Democratic Party to ever attain power just because there are way more red states. But this would also meek each congressional race much more important.

3. Observing the British Parliament, it seems to me lobbyists have much less influence on government in the UK than they do in the US, where they might as well be the ones actually running congress. There is far greater concern for constituents in the UK than in the US. Special interests seem to have a lesser role, and campaign financing really isn't a problem in the UK they way it corrupts in the US. I think this is much healthier for democracy, and I was wondering what a constitutional amendment would look like to reign in campaign funding.

Thoughts on this? I want our government to work better, and its only getting worse, and I am looking at other nations to see how its gone.



It's amazing how it comes across.

Over here PMQ's (Prime Ministers Questions) is seen as a bit of a joke and untrained animals at a zoo with all the shouting and boos.

But on the flip side it does give you an insight into the 2 main political part leaders.

William Hague (Former conservative party leader) used to make mincemeat of Tony Blair during PMQ's and at some points it was just embarrassing to watch - Yet Hague never became Prime Minister and Teflon Tony was PM for 10 years and became a war criminal.

David Cameron was great at PMQ's - But a £30,000 year Eton education and Oxford University, he should have been.

Current PM, Theresa May has been a bit hit and miss, but she is against Jeremy Corbyn who is a bit of a wally so doesn't really matter.

I have watched Corbyn and May a few times. Corbyn is the British version of Bernie Sanders, and way on the opposite side of the party from where Blair was. Their battles seem to be even so far, but May got the best of him when Trump was talked about.

Historically the best at PMQs was Thatcher. Hands down.

Thinking about it some more. Obama would have been good at it I think, but he would have faced a lot more tough questions then he faced in his presidency and he would have never had a teleprompter at all during questions. Ryan I think would have been the best counter in the GOP leadership to Obama, as I don't feel McConnell or Boehner would have held up. Obama would have had his biggest challenge from the GOP equivalent of the backbench, and it would have been guys like Rubio, Cruz in the Senate, and Blackburn, Jordan, and Mia Love in the house. I think Bush battling Reid and Pelosi would be similar to what we see in the Commons today. Clinton and Gingrich though back in the 90s would have easily been the best battle out there.

Trump would probably not do so well today. I don't think Pelosi would be a battle for him, but in the House backbenchers like Sheila Jackson Lee and Steven Lynch, and in the Senate Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, and Cory Booker would give Trump a battle, but Schumer wouldn't be as good.
 
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Dano1977
Posts: 757
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:26 pm

apodino wrote:
Dano1977 wrote:
apodino wrote:
I have taken an interest in foreign politics in recent weeks. I am always intrigued and entertained watching a session of the British House of Commons, and it got me thinking about a few questions.

1. Would the US benefit from a weekly congressional questions to the president segment that works very similar to Prime Ministers questions? I was thinking about this watching the entertaining exchanges between Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn and imagining if Trump had to face questions weekly from Pelosi and Schumer in a public setting, and going back if Obama had to face questions from Ryan, McConnell? How much better would our democracy be?

2. The Executive and Legislative branches in the UK are largely intertwined, where there are mostly separate in the US (Aside from the VP role as president of the senate) Typically in the UK one party controls both functions as a result, where in the US they are more separate. The one thing I see here is because of the geography of the US, if we had a parliamentary government instead of a federal republic, it would be very difficult for the Democratic Party to ever attain power just because there are way more red states. But this would also meek each congressional race much more important.

3. Observing the British Parliament, it seems to me lobbyists have much less influence on government in the UK than they do in the US, where they might as well be the ones actually running congress. There is far greater concern for constituents in the UK than in the US. Special interests seem to have a lesser role, and campaign financing really isn't a problem in the UK they way it corrupts in the US. I think this is much healthier for democracy, and I was wondering what a constitutional amendment would look like to reign in campaign funding.

Thoughts on this? I want our government to work better, and its only getting worse, and I am looking at other nations to see how its gone.



It's amazing how it comes across.

Over here PMQ's (Prime Ministers Questions) is seen as a bit of a joke and untrained animals at a zoo with all the shouting and boos.

But on the flip side it does give you an insight into the 2 main political part leaders.

William Hague (Former conservative party leader) used to make mincemeat of Tony Blair during PMQ's and at some points it was just embarrassing to watch - Yet Hague never became Prime Minister and Teflon Tony was PM for 10 years and became a war criminal.

David Cameron was great at PMQ's - But a £30,000 year Eton education and Oxford University, he should have been.

Current PM, Theresa May has been a bit hit and miss, but she is against Jeremy Corbyn who is a bit of a wally so doesn't really matter.

I have watched Corbyn and May a few times. Corbyn is the British version of Bernie Sanders, and way on the opposite side of the party from where Blair was. Their battles seem to be even so far, but May got the best of him when Trump was talked about.

Historically the best at PMQs was Thatcher. Hands down.

Thinking about it some more. Obama would have been good at it I think, but he would have faced a lot more tough questions then he faced in his presidency and he would have never had a teleprompter at all during questions. Ryan I think would have been the best counter in the GOP leadership to Obama, as I don't feel McConnell or Boehner would have held up. Obama would have had his biggest challenge from the GOP equivalent of the backbench, and it would have been guys like Rubio, Cruz in the Senate, and Blackburn, Jordan, and Mia Love in the house. I think Bush battling Reid and Pelosi would be similar to what we see in the Commons today. Clinton and Gingrich though back in the 90s would have easily been the best battle out there.

Trump would probably not do so well today. I don't think Pelosi would be a battle for him, but in the House backbenchers like Sheila Jackson Lee and Steven Lynch, and in the Senate Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, and Cory Booker would give Trump a battle, but Schumer wouldn't be as good.



To be brutal. Yes Thatcher was very good at PMQ's, but also take into account who she faced.

James Callaghan
Michael Foot
Last but not least, the Welsh wind bag, Neil Kinnock.

Callaghan took us through the winter of discontent - power cuts, streets full of rubbish because the bin men went on strike - Mortuaries backlogged because grave diggers went on strike. This was when the unions held the Govt by the gonads and squeezed hard. British Leyland went on strike if they didn't have sugar in the canteen, and the nightshift turned up with blankets and pillows so they could sleep.

Michael Foot, The author of the longest suicide note in history - The Labour parties 1983 political manifesto. Then their was the allegations by KGB defector Alex Gordievsky that Foot was a KGB spy

Neil Kinnock - Nothing needs to be said, apart from this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh8ktNsie0I
The average EU official - he has the organising ability of the Italians, the flexibility of the Germans and the modesty of the French. And that's topped up by the imagination of the Belgians, the generosity of the Dutch.
 
diverted
Posts: 1302
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Re: If the US Gov't worked more like the British Government

Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:47 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:

Salt for the chip on your shoulder sir?

Again, no thread no response, this one is on OP.

MrHMSH wrote:
I won't deny that the British have messed up almost everything, but they've also done plenty of positive things.

But the more important point is that the people that messed things up are dead. Gone. And blaming the current British population for the actions of perhaps 1% of the population that are now long gone just says that you hold a grudge and think the sons should be punished for their fathers' actions.


Ok, what are UK's modern day contributions to the world?

Daily Mail and 100 other tabloids (or) Broadsheet papers (or) The Economist (or) Brand image management companies (or) Richard Quest!!! You cannot manipulate the world by managing the information.

What about the hypocrisy of having SFO but same time involved in several cases of bribery through out the world.

When you enjoyed few hundred years or few decades on a host, don't make a mess when you are asked to leave, I am not talking about past, I am talking about EU and EK.



Well, seeing as this thread is turning into a zoo, might as well put $0.25 in the machine so I can feed the troll

Let's start with the username. DTW2HYD. So, we'll assume it's someone living in the Detroit area, who's originally from Hyderabad. (Unfortunately the username is all we really have to go by)

Wonder why someone who lives in Detroit and from Hyderabad(A city with 1.7M living in slums) would have an axe to grind with the Brits.

Oh, and you wanna go spouting on what the UK has done wrong over centuries? Why don't you look in the mirror and wonder what your government was doing circa 2003 with Iraq, or circa 2011 with Syria.

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