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Hillis
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Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:47 am

And the beat of falsehoods, "alternative facts" and outright lies continue from the current administration.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/10/politics/ ... index.html

Funny, because some were wondering where the Russia/Trump story had gone to in the last week or so, but it's back, and with a vengeance. At best, this means the current President will have to get rid of his National Security Advisor, who, on top of being a right-wing nut, is, like his boss an incessant liar. At worst, it'll increase the drumbeat calling for impeachment.

And the Adminstration's response? What else-all fake news. That's the only comeback they have.

The current president isn't going to make it til the end of the year.
 
cpd
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:00 am

That's only on CNN. It isn't a fact unless Breitbart reports it, right?

Reached for comment this afternoon, White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer said, "We continue to be disgusted by CNN's fake news reporting."


The underlined bit is rage at being caught by something that is likely true.

Spicer later called back and said, "This is more fake news. It is about time CNN focused on the success the President has had bringing back jobs, protecting the nation, and strengthening relationships with Japan and other nations. The President won the election because of his vision and message for the nation."


And that bit is the deflection to try and steer the conversation in a different direction.

And the bit about strengthening relationships with Japan and other nations must be some new policy direction, because all we've heard is Trump and his colleagues attacking other nations, even the most loyal allies and talk of putting the proverbial barriers up around the USA.

That fake news line isn't going to hold up much longer. Trump and his people are really really in crisis. Trump is very inexperienced, and even worse, it seems those around him are equally inexperienced and seemingly incapable of steering their boss in the right direction and saving him from media disasters. The whole team is lurching from one crisis to the next.
Last edited by cpd on Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
vikkyvik
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:11 am

Help me out here.

What I see is an article that basically says, some foreign nationals apparently did talk to each other on certain days, as previously mentioned in this dossier.

Why, at best, does Trump have to get rid of his National Security Advisor?
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
coolian2
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:12 am

"Administration Lied"

Of course. The run rose this morning.
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seb146
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:33 am

The Blaze (anti-Obama Glenn Beck run) and Newsmax (not quite as far right as Breitbart) are both backing up CNN, so...

Let's not forget that the recordings were probably turned off when Russia called. The administration has not said one way or the other which means yes, they were.
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salttee
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:41 am

vikkyvik wrote:
Why, at best, does Trump have to get rid of his National Security Advisor?

Well you can look at it from either the reputable media POV:
Top Trump officials, including Vice President Mike Pence, said last month that Flynn and Sergey Kislyak, the Russian ambassador, talked simply to arrange a phone call between Russian President Vladimir Putin and Trump. But according to a report published in The Washington Post Thursday, Flynn told the ambassador that Trump would ease sanctions on the country once he took office.................

Flynn initially denied to the Post that he had ever discussed sanctions with Kislyak, but a spokesman later backtracked, saying Flynn simply had “no recollection” of whether they were discussed........

Such a conversation could place Flynn in violation of the Logan Act, which bars private citizens from negotiating with foreign governments.........

Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.), the ranking member on the House Intelligence Committee, said that if the report is true, Flynn should be fired.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mike-flynn-russia-sanctions_us_589df925e4b03df370d6014e

OR

the right wing media POV:
The FBI is continuing to investigate the Flynn matter, and could even end up prosecuting him under the Logan Act, which forbids unauthorized civilians from messing with U.S. diplomacy. But before any of that happens, the administration is quickly separating itself from Flynn. He is on his own.
https://newrepublic.com/minutes/140566/trumps-national-security-advisor-michael-flynn-tossed-bus
 
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alberchico
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:07 pm

I've heard a couple of people say this already feels like Nixon's second term. Sagging poll numbers, constant infighting and backbiting among the staff, a president in the depth of paranoia and lashing out at everyone, congressional Republicans getting nervous about the president's mental health. It's been 21 days.
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BestWestern
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:40 pm

The whole 'fake news' from a press secretary is terrible.
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Hillis
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:12 pm

alberchico wrote:
I've heard a couple of people say this already feels like Nixon's second term. Sagging poll numbers, constant infighting and backbiting among the staff, a president in the depth of paranoia and lashing out at everyone, congressional Republicans getting nervous about the president's mental health. It's been 21 days.


I was pretty young when Nixon resigned, so I don't remember a lot about it, but Nixon, like the current President, was arrogant and spiteful. Unlike the current President, and probably what makes Nixon's case even more sad, is that he was a brilliantly intelligent person. The current President has no intellectual curiosity and no desire to learn about the world that he lives in beyond his own bubble. Nixon was considered one of the pre-eminent foreign policy minds of his era. He could have done so much for th nation, had his Trump-like pettiness not gotten in his way. I have no such hopes for the current occupant of the White House.
 
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pvjin
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:50 pm

Hillis wrote:
The current President has no intellectual curiosity and no desire to learn about the world that he lives in beyond his own bubble.


I don't think Obama had much of those things either, a true intellectual would have learnt from the mistakes of the past and acted more wisely in Libya and Syria. Clinton would have been even worse.

Anybody who thinks you can export democracy to backward societies that aren't ready for it is a moron, not an intellectual.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
Hillis
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:29 pm

pvjin wrote:
Hillis wrote:
The current President has no intellectual curiosity and no desire to learn about the world that he lives in beyond his own bubble.


I don't think Obama had much of those things either, a true intellectual would have learnt from the mistakes of the past and acted more wisely in Libya and Syria. Clinton would have been even worse.

Anybody who thinks you can export democracy to backward societies that aren't ready for it is a moron, not an intellectual.


Oh, for Christ's sake, but you live in such a delusional world. The man consumes books; at Columbia, he majored in Political Science, with a specialty in International Relations and in English Literature; he graduated Magna Cum Laude from Harvard, was editor of the Harvard Law Review; after that he taught Law at the University of Chicago.

He was the first Commander-in-Geek, if you will, as he is always fascinated with new gadgets and new ideas on how to better the world.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-oba ... story.html

As I said, he's a voracious reader. And when you read a lot, on a myriad of different subjects, you learn. Trump? Even his aids say he reads noting, and would rather be a couch potato and watch tv all day.

And here's a picture of his bookshelf at the White House. Notice a pattern?

Image


It really doesn't bother me that you don't like Obama, or anyone else, but when you're a flat-out liar like this, well it says more about you than it does anything else. Obama is intellectually light years ahead of our current President, who has no knowledge, and doesn't want to learn, about the world around him.
 
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seb146
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:53 pm

pvjin wrote:
Hillis wrote:
The current President has no intellectual curiosity and no desire to learn about the world that he lives in beyond his own bubble.


I don't think Obama had much of those things either, a true intellectual would have learnt from the mistakes of the past and acted more wisely in Libya and Syria. Clinton would have been even worse.

Anybody who thinks you can export democracy to backward societies that aren't ready for it is a moron, not an intellectual.


Actually, instead of spending untold amounts of money and lives forcing democracy on places like Egypt and Syria and Libya, Obama sat back and let them deal with it themselves. Instead of ending up with endless wars in places like Afghanistan and Iraq like a previous leader.
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seahawk
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:56 pm

Probably just lies by the fake media.
 
Ken777
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:06 pm

OK, first off - I like that bookcase. Really defines Trump to a T.

How many SNAFUs and FUBARs has the Trump Administration had in their first 3 weeks?

Is anyone surprised that there are so many lies being delivered by the White House? This is going to continue until Trump is out of Office.

My sympathies do go out to Mr. Spicer with Trump basically writing his attacks. I can see him walking away from the unreasonable BS he has to live with.
 
salttee
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:25 pm

Ken777 wrote:
How many SNAFUs and FUBARs has the Trump Administration had in their first 3 weeks?


Let's try and list em- I'll start:

1. Caught with their pants down without a healthcare plan.
2. Trump's disastrous speech to the CIA.
3. Conway's attempt to sell Irvana's crap.
4. The hostile conversation with Australian PM Turnbill (Trumble)
5. Getting bitchslapped by China and backing off his two China policy.
6. Having his Muslim ban banned.
7. Having the Muslim ban ban upheld.
8. No Mexican wall - backing down on 11,000,000 deportations.
9. Flynn
10. Melania still hiding out in NY
11. Backing down on moving US Embassy to Jerusalem.
12. Backing down on support for new Israeli settlements.
13. Empty bookcase.
 
vikkyvik
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:36 pm

salttee wrote:
Well you can look at it from either the reputable media POV:


The article in the OP only stated that there is corroborating evidence that foreign nationals had talked to each other. Nothing about anyone from the US.

None of the newly learned information relates to the salacious allegations in the dossier. Rather it relates to conversations between foreign nationals. The dossier details about a dozen conversations between senior Russian officials and other Russian individuals. Sources would not confirm which specific conversations were intercepted or the content of those discussions due to the classified nature of US intelligence collection programs.

But the intercepts do confirm that some of the conversations described in the dossier took place between the same individuals on the same days and from the same locations as detailed in the dossier, according to the officials. CNN has not confirmed whether any content relates to then-candidate Trump.


So again, help me out. What's the story here?
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
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11725Flyer
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:55 pm

salttee wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
How many SNAFUs and FUBARs has the Trump Administration had in their first 3 weeks?


Let's try and list em- I'll start:

1. Caught with their pants down without a healthcare plan.
2. Trump's disastrous speech to the CIA.
3. Conway's attempt to sell Irvana's crap.
4. The hostile conversation with Australian PM Turnbill (Trumble)
5. Getting bitchslapped by China and backing off his two China policy.
6. Having his Muslim ban banned.
7. Having the Muslim ban ban upheld.
8. No Mexican wall - backing down on 11,000,000 deportations.
9. Flynn
10. Melania still hiding out in NY
11. Backing down on moving US Embassy to Jerusalem.
12. Backing down on support for new Israeli settlements.
13. Empty bookcase.


Nice list!
 
salttee
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:56 pm

vikkyvik wrote:
So again, help me out. What's the story here?

If you want to ask the OP a question why are you copying me?

You asked in post #3
vikkyvik wrote:
Why, at best, does Trump have to get rid of his National Security Advisor?

And I answered you in post #6.

Why are you copying post #6 and asking me about what's in the OP's post?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:06 pm

Has there been one day without an incident yet?
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coolian2
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:39 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Has there been one day without an incident yet?

I think he slept in the day after inauguration
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scbriml
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:47 pm

coolian2 wrote:
I think he slept in the day after inauguration


Wasn't he playing golf in Florida at the weekend? I seem to remember Democrat presidents getting slammed for playing golf. #itsokwhenitsourguy
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SOBHI51
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:11 am

Hillis wrote:
pvjin wrote:
Hillis wrote:
The current President has no intellectual curiosity and no desire to learn about the world that he lives in beyond his own bubble.


I don't think Obama had much of those things either, a true intellectual would have learnt from the mistakes of the past and acted more wisely in Libya and Syria. Clinton would have been even worse.

Anybody who thinks you can export democracy to backward societies that aren't ready for it is a moron, not an intellectual.


Oh, for Christ's sake, but you live in such a delusional world. The man consumes books; at Columbia, he majored in Political Science, with a specialty in International Relations and in English Literature; he graduated Magna Cum Laude from Harvard, was editor of the Harvard Law Review; after that he taught Law at the University of Chicago.

He was the first Commander-in-Geek, if you will, as he is always fascinated with new gadgets and new ideas on how to better the world.





Come on Hillis take it easy on the troll, from his past postings i have my doubts that he ever graduated from high school, so words like majored, specialty, Magna Cum Laude, Harvard Law review etc... are way over his head.
Last edited by SOBHI51 on Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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vikkyvik
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:34 am

salttee wrote:
If you want to ask the OP a question why are you copying me?

salttee wrote:
Why are you copying post #6 and asking me about what's in the OP's post?


Because you answered my original question. I didn't understand your answer, so I'm asking for clarification, with a bit more detail as to what I don't understand.
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salttee
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:02 am

vikkyvik wrote:
Because you answered my original question. I didn't understand your answer, so I'm asking for clarification, with a bit more detail as to what I don't understand.
Yes I can see that you're confused.
 
Ken777
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:28 am

Dutchy wrote:
Has there been one day without an incident yet?


Tomorrow?
 
salttee
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:46 am

Here's a followup piece from the Huffingtonpost, if this story continues to be followed up it will likely be a basis for impeachment, and knowing the great non-love affair between Trump and the CIA, I bet the information keeps bubbling out.

Here is but one snippet:
On March 21, 2016, then-presidential candidate Donald Trump told the editorial board of The Washington Post that Carter Page was a key member of his foreign policy team. To be clear, Trump cited Page, unprompted, by name—indeed, Page’s was one of the very first names Mr. Trump could think of in offering up his roster of foreign policy advisers. Four months later, Page travelled to Moscow to give a speech at the Higher Economic School. It was at this point, according to the Steele dossier, that the CEO of Russia’s national oil company, Igor Sechin, offered Page brokerage of a 19 percent stake in the oil company if he would convince Mr. Trump to lift U.S. sanctions on Russian oil.

Four days after Mr. Trump’s inauguration, Russia sold a 19.5 percent stake in its oil company to an undisclosed buyer.

Page was dumped from the Trump campaign in September, two months after his Russia trip, and President Trump’s press secretary Sean Spicer now insists that Mr. Trump “does not know” Page.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the ... bf74f03cd6
 
vikkyvik
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:36 am

salttee wrote:
Yes I can see that you're confused.


Well thanks for the help. :sarcastic:
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Francoflier
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:40 am

vikkyvik wrote:
So again, help me out. What's the story here?


The dossier that came out a couple of weeks ago (months, years? So much is happening at once that I lose track of time), compiled by Mr. Steele, an ex British intelligence operative, paid for by Trump opponents, contained several allegations related to Russia trying, by various ways, to both help Trump win the election and gather enough dirt on him presumably to be able to blackmail him during his tenure.

When the information came out (the Buzzfeed fiasco, reported by CNN which also got flak from it), all we knew was that the report existed and what it said, but there was no confirmation from any official intelligence agency that any of that information was true.
The Trump camp then, as per their standard M.O., said it was all fake news.

This development basically means that US investigators have now confirmed that at least parts of what the dossier said was true, which suddenly gives a lot more credibility to the whole thing... That's the story here.

The picture of how Trump is involved with Russia is getting clearer by the day. The Huffpost story posted by salttee above is another trail of suspicion that leads straight into the Trump circus.
It never ceases to amaze me that die hard Trump supporters are happy to stand in a cloud of thick black smoke while absolutely confident that the fire bells ringing all around them is a false alarm.
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solarflyer22
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:47 am

Of course they lied. They didnt realize it was illegal for them to talk to Russia in the first place (I didnt know it was illegal either btw) and when they got called out on it, they lied. This will be the first of many times they have lied and I am hoping Flynn gets fired for making sanctions promises to Russia. That is way out of line at his level, never mind the legality of it.
 
salttee
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:25 am

Flynn has been cut loose, he didn't get any support from Trump's people in the Sunday talk shows.

White House national security adviser Michael Flynn is under increasing political pressure and risks losing the confidence of some colleagues following reports that he misled senior administration officials about his discussion of sanctions with a Russian envoy shortly before President Trump took office.

As White House aides scramble to get their stories straight about the exact nature of those communications and as Democrats call for Flynn’s security clearance to be suspended or revoked, neither Trump nor his advisers have publicly defended Flynn or stated unequivocally that he has the president’s confidence.

Privately, some administration officials said that Flynn’s position has weakened and support for him has eroded largely because of a belief that he was disingenuous about Russia and therefore could not be fully trusted going forward.

“The knives are out for Flynn,” said one administration official who, like others interviewed for this report, spoke on the condition of anonymity in order to speak candidly. On Sunday, the top White House aide dispatched to represent the administration on the political talk shows pointedly declined to defend Flynn.

White House senior policy adviser Stephen Miller on Feb. 12 declined to say if President Trump still trusts national security adviser Michael Flynn. Meanwhile, Democrats scolded Flynn after The Washington Post reported that Flynn discussed sanctions with Russia’s ambassador to the U.S. during the transition of power. Asked on NBC’s “Meet the Press” whether the president had confidence in Flynn, senior policy adviser Stephen Miller said he did not know. “It’s not for me to tell you what’s in the president’s mind,” Miller told moderator Chuck Todd. He added that his colleagues at the White House “did not give me anything to say” about Flynn.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/as-flynn-falls-under-growing-pressure-over-russia-contacts-trump-remains-silent/2017/02/12/2b58f31e-f15e-11e6-b9c9-e83fce42fb61_story.html?utm_term=.ca003ead8e34

The news focus will probably be on Carter Page after Flynn is gone.
 
Hillis
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:43 am

salttee wrote:
Flynn has been cut loose, he didn't get any support from Trump's people in the Sunday talk shows.

White House national security adviser Michael Flynn is under increasing political pressure and risks losing the confidence of some colleagues following reports that he misled senior administration officials about his discussion of sanctions with a Russian envoy shortly before President Trump took office.

As White House aides scramble to get their stories straight about the exact nature of those communications and as Democrats call for Flynn’s security clearance to be suspended or revoked, neither Trump nor his advisers have publicly defended Flynn or stated unequivocally that he has the president’s confidence.

Privately, some administration officials said that Flynn’s position has weakened and support for him has eroded largely because of a belief that he was disingenuous about Russia and therefore could not be fully trusted going forward.

“The knives are out for Flynn,” said one administration official who, like others interviewed for this report, spoke on the condition of anonymity in order to speak candidly. On Sunday, the top White House aide dispatched to represent the administration on the political talk shows pointedly declined to defend Flynn.

White House senior policy adviser Stephen Miller on Feb. 12 declined to say if President Trump still trusts national security adviser Michael Flynn. Meanwhile, Democrats scolded Flynn after The Washington Post reported that Flynn discussed sanctions with Russia’s ambassador to the U.S. during the transition of power. Asked on NBC’s “Meet the Press” whether the president had confidence in Flynn, senior policy adviser Stephen Miller said he did not know. “It’s not for me to tell you what’s in the president’s mind,” Miller told moderator Chuck Todd. He added that his colleagues at the White House “did not give me anything to say” about Flynn.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/as-flynn-falls-under-growing-pressure-over-russia-contacts-trump-remains-silent/2017/02/12/2b58f31e-f15e-11e6-b9c9-e83fce42fb61_story.html?utm_term=.ca003ead8e34

The news focus will probably be on Carter Page after Flynn is gone.


This is going to end up like Watergate. Eventually, all this crap is going to lead back to the Con Man-In-Chief. Can't celebrate too much, because we still have a line of Pence, Ryan, Hatch, and other Fascists lined up right behind him.
 
cpd
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:42 am

How on earth could this guy think that he could possibly talk to Russian officials without it being known about, and potentially recorded?

It looks pretty damaging, and it could take down Trump as well. Because these people wouldn't be just going about doing this sort of thing without high level approval from the Trump camp, probably Trump even himself.

Surely the intelligence agencies will have evidence of it... Will they release it?

With all this happening, the North Korean missile launch looks like a very helpful way to deflect attention away from this crisis in the Trump camp.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:17 pm

I am surprised about the law prohibiting private citizen conversation with foreign governments. How do lobbyists skirt this one?

I think this administration still kept old staff, any misstep will leak within minutes. Better go by the book.
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TWA772LR
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:33 pm

cpd wrote:
How on earth could this guy think that he could possibly talk to Russian officials without it being known about, and potentially recorded?

It looks pretty damaging, and it could take down Trump as well. Because these people wouldn't be just going about doing this sort of thing without high level approval from the Trump camp, probably Trump even himself.

Surely the intelligence agencies will have evidence of it... Will they release it?

With all this happening, the North Korean missile launch looks like a very helpful way to deflect attention away from this crisis in the Trump camp.

The response will most likely be Abrams tanks rolling across the DMZ.

Joking aside, T-Man hasn't said a peep regarding North Korea even on the campaign trail. When Japan denounced the latest NK missile test, all Trump said was "We stand with Japan." Kim Jong Un is a psychopath with big guns, but I think Trump believes that Kim is bluffing (which he is) and sees it as a lesser issue.

Funny, the only way to get rid of a bully is to not give them attention. Something the media hasn't picked up on, but POTUS is definitely using that mentality toward NK.
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vfw614
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:51 pm

Joking aside, T-Man hasn't said a peep regarding North Korea even on the campaign trail.


Does he know where to find it on a map? Maybe he confuses it with North and South Dakota?
 
salttee
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:58 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
T-Man hasn't said a peep regarding North Korea even on the campaign trail.
Yes he did, He called Kim a maniac in September. http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/253 ... r-a-maniac

TWA772LR wrote:
I think Trump believes that Kim is bluffing (which he is) and sees it as a lesser issue.
Bluffing about nukes, ICBM development, attacks on South Korean ships? What do you think he's bluffing about?

TWA772LR wrote:
Funny, the only way to get rid of a bully is to not give them attention. Something the media hasn't picked up on, but POTUS is definitely using that mentality toward NK.
Trump is not ignoring NK, he has publicly called for Japan to develop nukes, he called Kim a Maniac, he has said that he'll make China solve the problem. Just because he is not taunting Kim everyday as he does with Mexicans or Muslims or whatever else he's on about doesn't mean that he has ignored NK.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:18 pm

salttee wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
T-Man hasn't said a peep regarding North Korea even on the campaign trail.
Yes he did, He called Kim a maniac in September. http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/253 ... r-a-maniac

TWA772LR wrote:
I think Trump believes that Kim is bluffing (which he is) and sees it as a lesser issue.
Bluffing about nukes, ICBM development, attacks on South Korean ships? What do you think he's bluffing about?

TWA772LR wrote:
Funny, the only way to get rid of a bully is to not give them attention. Something the media hasn't picked up on, but POTUS is definitely using that mentality toward NK.
Trump is not ignoring NK, he has publicly called for Japan to develop nukes, he called Kim a Maniac, he has said that he'll make China solve the problem. Just because he is not taunting Kim everyday as he does with Mexicans or Muslims or whatever else he's on about doesn't mean that he has ignored NK.

They can build and test all they want. But you now as well as I that they aren't going to deliver a nuclear payload in our lifetimes. Idk about you, but I'm 24 and have quite a bit of life to live.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
Hillis
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:12 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
They can build and test all they want. But you now as well as I that they aren't going to deliver a nuclear payload in our lifetimes. Idk about you, but I'm 24 and have quite a bit of life to live.


You do have the cockiness of someone that doesn't know better yet. If they are testing ballistics now, you can bet that, yes, they will be able to deliver a payload in your lifetime. If you love to an average age, you've got about 56 years left in your life, give or take. We both may not like he DRPK, but they've no doubt have a few smart people working for them.

Back in the late 1940's, we were convinced the Soviet Union wouldn't have a nuke until at least the mid 1950's. We were wrong. And if the current president wants to undersestimate them getting a weapon, like you are, he does so at his own peril.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:33 pm

Hillis wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
They can build and test all they want. But you now as well as I that they aren't going to deliver a nuclear payload in our lifetimes. Idk about you, but I'm 24 and have quite a bit of life to live.


You do have the cockiness of someone that doesn't know better yet. If they are testing ballistics now, you can bet that, yes, they will be able to deliver a payload in your lifetime. If you love to an average age, you've got about 56 years left in your life, give or take. We both may not like he DRPK, but they've no doubt have a few smart people working for them.

Back in the late 1940's, we were convinced the Soviet Union wouldn't have a nuke until at least the mid 1950's. We were wrong. And if the current president wants to undersestimate them getting a weapon, like you are, he does so at his own peril.

And those same smart people don't want to unleash Armageddon. Everyone in the US thought the Soviets were going to strike first, they didn't. Once the Curtain came down, both sides found out they were equally afraid of each other and were very reluctant to turn the key.

When it comes to nuclear war, which will lead to M.A.D., no one wants to be that guy. The precedent is Stalin, Truman, Andropov, Regan, etc... And Stalin was MUCH more of a megalomaniac than Kim is now. If NK actually does start any kind of war, it won't be nuclear. That's the only remaining shred of hope I have for the human race, that the nukes won't fly.
When wasn't America great?


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Francoflier
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:47 am

What's going to happen to Mr. Flynn in the next few days will be interesting...

Flynn has always been a staunch supporter of the Trump/Bannon pair, and was rewarded for it by being appointed as National Security Adviser.
There is little doubt that Trump and Bannon both knew Flynn's stance on Russia, given Trump's own apparent fondness for Putin. Trump essentially put a pro-Russia individual as the national security adviser...
There is also little doubt in my mind that they knew what Flynn was talking to the Russian ambassador and what they were talking about. I doubt he did so without consulting with his future bosses. Not to mention that it happened right after Obama announced more sanctions on Russia.

We will now see how Trump deals with those in his entourage who become liabilities. I expect him to act like the mafia boss he seems to emulate and leave him high and dry. Ditto Priebus and Spicer. He will cut the gangrened member before it gets to close to him.

Of course, Trump now evades answering tough questions about his administration by giving few news conferences, and when he does, he hand picks sympathetic reporters who won't ask him on 'taboo' subjects.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38964079



Amazing how Trump reminds me of Hugo Chavez, another populist who both liked Russia and censoring the media.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
salttee
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:16 am

TWA772LR wrote:
Everyone in the US thought the Soviets were going to strike first, they didn't. Once the Curtain came down, both sides found out they were equally afraid of each other and were very reluctant to turn the key.
Neither the US nor any of the Western European nations ever had any desire to invade Russia or the SU, so your "equally afraid" analysis is not in sync with the reality that existed during the cold war. Russia, aka the leadership of the SU, was very provocative all during the cold war and they built up a huge military that was poised for offense from the 50s through the 80s, so it is a fair assumption that they were deterred by western nukes, but not so much the other way around. NATO has always been a defensive organization and their strategy was based on using nukes to stop an army that had overwhelming numerical superiority.
TWA772LR wrote:
When it comes to nuclear war, which will lead to M.A.D.....................
I don't see how or why a nuclear exchange with North Korea would escalate beyond the Korean peninsula.
TWA772LR wrote:
And Stalin was MUCH more of a megalomaniac than Kim is now.
I strongly see that the other way around. Stalin was a realist, Kim gives every indication of living in a narcissistic bubble.
TWA772LR wrote:
If NK actually does start any kind of war, it won't be nuclear. That's the only remaining shred of hope I have for the human race, that the nukes won't fly.
Kim's antique army would be chopped to pieces if it tried to move south without nukes; nukes are the only threat Kim has.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:43 am

salttee wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
Everyone in the US thought the Soviets were going to strike first, they didn't. Once the Curtain came down, both sides found out they were equally afraid of each other and were very reluctant to turn the key.
Neither the US nor any of the Western European nations ever had any desire to invade Russia or the SU, so your "equally afraid" analysis is not in sync with the reality that existed during the cold war. Russia, aka the leadership of the SU, was very provocative all during the cold war and they built up a huge military that was poised for offense from the 50s through the 80s, so it is a fair assumption that they were deterred by western nukes, but not so much the other way around. NATO has always been a defensive organization and their strategy was based on using nukes to stop an army that had overwhelming numerical superiority.

If the USSR had a real itchy trigger finger as you suggest, they would've launched during Able Archer. The high ups in the Communist party knew what was happening. There was even an event in the Cuban missile crisis where a US destroyer damaged the communications array of a Soviet submarine. The Soviet protocol at the time was if the comms were knocked out, that the 3 most senior officers could vote to launch the payload but it had to be unanimous; the resulting vote was 2-1.

Yes the USSR had an offensive military, but with half of the world threatening to nuke you, of course they had to have one, plus that's one of the criteria of being a Superpower. I'm not trying to sound like pvjin, but all countries, including the USSR/Russia, NK, USA, et al have the right to defend themselves. The Soviets didn't want to fall behind in the world.

Think about it like this, if the US had the right to go into Vietnam and Korea, then the USSR had the right to go into Afghanistan (which communism was working well for Afghanistan, but that's a story for another thread).
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
salttee
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:24 am

You're making several disjointed arguments that don't seem to have a common thread.
TWA772LR wrote:
If the USSR had a real itchy trigger finger as you suggest, they would've launched during Able Archer. The high ups in the Communist party knew what was happening.
"itchy trigger finger" is the wrong metaphor. NATO assessed that the SU was structured to go offensive - to invade Europe. Able Archer reversed the tactical situation on Russia, they thought they were about to be attacked which was why it was so dangerous. They weren't prepared to attack at that moment in time, they were purely in reaction mode.
TWA772LR wrote:
There was even an event in the Cuban missile crisis where a US destroyer damaged the communications array of a Soviet submarine. The Soviet protocol at the time was if the comms were knocked out, that the 3 most senior officers could vote to launch the payload but it had to be unanimous; the resulting vote was 2-1.
I don't see any parallel to the Korean discussion here. I don't understand what point you're making.
TWA772LR wrote:
Yes the USSR had an offensive military, but with half of the world threatening to nuke you, of course they had to have one, plus that's one of the criteria of being a Superpower. I'm not trying to sound like pvjin, but all countries, including the USSR/Russia, NK, USA, et al have the right to defend themselves. The Soviets didn't want to fall behind in the world.
"with half of the world threatening to nuke you" presents an assumption that that's the way it started and it was that way all along. But that's not the way it started. There was an agreement at Yalta and in May of 1945 the US Third Army had nothing in front of it, the Third Army could have marched into Prague and probably a few hundred miles further east if they had been given the order, but instead Eisenhower ordered the Third army back to the agreed upon Yalta line of demarcation. The US held to the letter and spirit of Yalta - not so with Russia. They threw an "Iron Curtain" around their occupied territory and militarized Eastern Europe while the US and Britain demobilized. The US nuke program was wound down and all but mothballed, while the Russians were burning the midnight oil on their nuke program.

Things blew up in June of 1950 when Russia funded and equipped Kim's grandfather and set him to attacking the Americans in Korea where the US had already announced their intention to withdraw from the peninsula. That war is all on Russia, not Harry Truman or the US. Then came Hungary, the Berlin Airlift, Czechoslovakia and the wall.

The cold war was a Russian invention all the way.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:56 am

TWA772LR wrote:
They can build and test all they want.


Apparently that includes testing Torpedos on south Korean ships and testing artillery shells on south Korean Islands

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
salttee
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Re: Administration Lied About Russia Contacts

Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:32 am

The New Yorker magazine has a pretty good synopsis of the Flynn story.
http://www.newyorker.com/news/ryan-lizz ... E2ODQyNwS2

The piece concludes:

“It wasn’t one report,” the senior White House official told me about the series of news articles that made Trump finally focus on Flynn yesterday. “It was a drip, drip, drip.”

Both Congress and the F.B.I. are looking into Flynn’s links to Russia.
There are several former Obama officials who saw transcripts of his calls with the Russian Ambassador.
The dripping has only just begun.

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