Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9411
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:52 pm

Jomar777 wrote:
Pure speculation from The Guardian (one of the few (the only mainstream) of REMOANERS that exist.
Nobody know for certain what it will happen so it is purely speculation Although the EU has its own administration, it needs consensus and approval of any deal by the member nations (Belgium, as we saw, even count as two - Flanders and Wallonia...).
We have not started negotiations yet, there will be elections in Germany and France (and probably others during these two years) and the outlook for the whole region may shift.
The Guardian tends to be consistently hammering the doom and gloom. Yet, if you can take them, you could also take The Express, The Times and The Mail consistently hammering otherwise.
Let's wait the negotiations start.
Coming back to AVIATION which is the main point here, I expect a deal to be hammered between the EU and the UK pretty swift since both have a lot to lose if they do not agree. You may say that on this particular issue, the UK may have problems but remember: if we do not have a deal on aviation, we may not have a deal elsewhere in retaliation...


So how do you know it is not all gloom and doom? Because of a brexiter you know that by definition nothing bad can ever come from brexit?
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:09 pm

Others have commented on the position of Ryanair. However it should be noted that while the UK is not part of the Shenegen area neither is the Republic of Ireland. Both are, however, part of the Common Travel Area (CTA).

Note here that while Switzerland is in the Shenegen Area it is not in the EU. Also note that while the Channel Islands (Guernsey, Jersey, Alderney and Sark) are not in the EU they are in the CTA. Further the Isle of Man's situation mirrors this arrangement.

So the current situation is more complex. When the UK exits the EU will the CTA still exist? If both Ireland and the UK want to continue to operate the CTA, what will happen?

It has also been suggested above that the UK was against the EU/US North Atlantic Open Skies Agreement. A source would be interesting. This is because it is difficult to explain why the UK has separately signed TOTALLY Open Skies Bilateral Agreements. For example that of October 2007 allows Singaporean airlines to fly and sell tickets on UK domestic routes as add-ons to their SIN-UK flights. Note that this same agreement also allows such airlines to operate between LHR, other UK airports and the USA .

For more information on the UK / Singapore bilateral open skies agreement simply google 'UK Singapore Open Skies' and read the Airline Route News article.
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 7125
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:23 pm

Jomar777 wrote:
I expect a deal to be hammered between the EU and the UK pretty swift since both have a lot to lose if they do not agree.

Could you please elaborate what you expect the EU could lose in case agreements lag behind.

The UK loses EU membership, but the other 27 EU countries don't. Business as usual. There will be minor changes in EU27, but hardly anything at risk to be lost.

Here in Denmark nobody expects to lose anything no matter what agreements will result. The effects here in Denmark happened last year, and are very minor. Our bacon export suffered slightly, and search was done for new and better markets since the GBP plummeted. On the other hand Danish weekend power-shopping in London is booming for the same reason.

But the plummeted pound isn't brexit. It's only one consequence of brexit.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
Jerry123
Posts: 321
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:58 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:48 pm

vv701 wrote:
Others have commented on the position of Ryanair. However it should be noted that while the UK is not part of the Shenegen area neither is the Republic of Ireland. Both are, however, part of the Common Travel Area (CTA).

Note here that while Switzerland is in the Shenegen Area it is not in the EU. Also note that while the Channel Islands (Guernsey, Jersey, Alderney and Sark) are not in the EU they are in the CTA. Further the Isle of Man's situation mirrors this arrangement.

So the current situation is more complex. When the UK exits the EU will the CTA still exist? If both Ireland and the UK want to continue to operate the CTA, what will happen?

It has also been suggested above that the UK was against the EU/US North Atlantic Open Skies Agreement. A source would be interesting. This is because it is difficult to explain why the UK has separately signed TOTALLY Open Skies Bilateral Agreements. For example that of October 2007 allows Singaporean airlines to fly and sell tickets on UK domestic routes as add-ons to their SIN-UK flights. Note that this same agreement also allows such airlines to operate between LHR, other UK airports and the USA .

For more information on the UK / Singapore bilateral open skies agreement simply google 'UK Singapore Open Skies' and read the Airline Route News article.

The Common Travel Area between the Republic of Ireland and the UK existed long before the EU so i can't see it being scrapped. Personally i don't think much will change aviation wise as too many big companies have to much to lose.
 
User avatar
SomebodyInTLS
Posts: 1888
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:31 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:02 pm

prebennorholm wrote:
The effects here in Denmark happened last year, and are very minor. Our bacon export suffered slightly, and search was done for new and better markets since the GBP plummeted.


No no! You need us more than we need you! It's true, because Nigel told me. :covereyes:
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
User avatar
Boeing778X
Posts: 3268
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:55 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:31 pm

I am so sick and tired of all these leftwing papers spitting out ultimatums of "doom." Pure scare tactics.

Problem is, it doesn't seem to work anymore.
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
User avatar
SomebodyInTLS
Posts: 1888
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:31 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:57 pm

Boeing778X wrote:
I am so sick and tired of all these leftwing papers spitting out ultimatums of "doom." Pure scare tactics.

Problem is, it doesn't seem to work anymore.


Without wanting to start another troll war, the thing is that it's not scare tactics - it's just very very hard to see how pulling out of a whole bunch of negotiated agreements with a large number of other countries can be beneficial, especially for the one doing the pulling out.

I mean, otherwise... it's not like everyone clubbed together back then and agreed to make themselves worse off than before, is it (despite what some of the loonier papers would make out). The agreements were made for all the members' benefit - ergo, without the agreements, they will lose some benefit. It's not "doom" - it's simple logic.

"It doesn't seem to work anymore" is just that the half of us who didn't vote for this stuff are resigned to waiting and seeing just how crap it all turns out. I think people on the more rational side of the argument are also the less vocal and provocative type - probably why we lost.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
Jomar777
Posts: 577
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:45 am

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:13 am

mjoelnir wrote:
Jomar777 wrote:
Pure speculation from The Guardian (one of the few (the only mainstream) of REMOANERS that exist.
Nobody know for certain what it will happen so it is purely speculation Although the EU has its own administration, it needs consensus and approval of any deal by the member nations (Belgium, as we saw, even count as two - Flanders and Wallonia...).
We have not started negotiations yet, there will be elections in Germany and France (and probably others during these two years) and the outlook for the whole region may shift.
The Guardian tends to be consistently hammering the doom and gloom. Yet, if you can take them, you could also take The Express, The Times and The Mail consistently hammering otherwise.
Let's wait the negotiations start.
Coming back to AVIATION which is the main point here, I expect a deal to be hammered between the EU and the UK pretty swift since both have a lot to lose if they do not agree. You may say that on this particular issue, the UK may have problems but remember: if we do not have a deal on aviation, we may not have a deal elsewhere in retaliation...


So how do you know it is not all gloom and doom? Because of a brexiter you know that by definition nothing bad can ever come from brexit?


This is because NO NEGOTIATION has happened yet. Simple, isn't it?
 
Jomar777
Posts: 577
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:45 am

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:19 am

prebennorholm wrote:
Jomar777 wrote:
I expect a deal to be hammered between the EU and the UK pretty swift since both have a lot to lose if they do not agree.

Could you please elaborate what you expect the EU could lose in case agreements lag behind.

The UK loses EU membership, but the other 27 EU countries don't. Business as usual. There will be minor changes in EU27, but hardly anything at risk to be lost.

Here in Denmark nobody expects to lose anything no matter what agreements will result. The effects here in Denmark happened last year, and are very minor. Our bacon export suffered slightly, and search was done for new and better markets since the GBP plummeted. On the other hand Danish weekend power-shopping in London is booming for the same reason.

But the plummeted pound isn't brexit. It's only one consequence of brexit.


The first thing is Trade (UK has a significant NET deficit against the EU) Second is Tourism. Third (and maybe the most serious one) is the fact that the remaining 27 Countries will have to plug the EU Budget HOle caused by the (possible...) lack of UK contributions (UK is the biggest net contributor). Directly in regards to Denmark, I do not know but note that, together with the UK, Denmark is the only country which terminantly refused to join the Euro (Sweden is out of the EU-Zone only on technicality). Danish Position in regards to this maybe weaken given that a much further integration is now sought by the EU towards avoiding further countries leaving the Union.
But... at present... this is all speculation.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9411
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:12 am

Jomar777 wrote:
prebennorholm wrote:
Jomar777 wrote:
I expect a deal to be hammered between the EU and the UK pretty swift since both have a lot to lose if they do not agree.

Could you please elaborate what you expect the EU could lose in case agreements lag behind.

The UK loses EU membership, but the other 27 EU countries don't. Business as usual. There will be minor changes in EU27, but hardly anything at risk to be lost.

Here in Denmark nobody expects to lose anything no matter what agreements will result. The effects here in Denmark happened last year, and are very minor. Our bacon export suffered slightly, and search was done for new and better markets since the GBP plummeted. On the other hand Danish weekend power-shopping in London is booming for the same reason.

But the plummeted pound isn't brexit. It's only one consequence of brexit.


The first thing is Trade (UK has a significant NET deficit against the EU) Second is Tourism. Third (and maybe the most serious one) is the fact that the remaining 27 Countries will have to plug the EU Budget HOle caused by the (possible...) lack of UK contributions (UK is the biggest net contributor). Directly in regards to Denmark, I do not know but note that, together with the UK, Denmark is the only country which terminantly refused to join the Euro (Sweden is out of the EU-Zone only on technicality). Danish Position in regards to this maybe weaken given that a much further integration is now sought by the EU towards avoiding further countries leaving the Union.
But... at present... this is all speculation.


Where do people get the idea that the UK is the biggest net contributor to the EU? A net contributor, but the biggest is very simple Germany. The UK would be the biggest contributor, but there is the 66% rebate on net payments to the EU. There is often some misunderstanding, but even Italy is a net contributor.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8036097.stm#start


The other thing is that Denmark did not take up the Euro, but the Danish Kronur is pecked to the Euro with a narrow band. So practically seen Denmark uses the Euro.
Last edited by mjoelnir on Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 5106
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:12 am

I don't even SEE why this would be an issue. Other than some taxes being paid the British should come and go as they always have. GB has always been a stable and reliable friend to Europe, and nothing has changed They just sought to control their OWN borders and Affairs .
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9411
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:23 am

strfyr51 wrote:
I don't even SEE why this would be an issue. Other than some taxes being paid the British should come and go as they always have. GB has always been a stable and reliable friend to Europe, and nothing has changed They just sought to control their OWN borders and Affairs .


The UK is leaving the common market. It astonishes me that people seem to imagine, that if you leave a club, that you keep the advantages of membership.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9411
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:28 am

Jomar777 wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
Jomar777 wrote:
Pure speculation from The Guardian (one of the few (the only mainstream) of REMOANERS that exist.
Nobody know for certain what it will happen so it is purely speculation Although the EU has its own administration, it needs consensus and approval of any deal by the member nations (Belgium, as we saw, even count as two - Flanders and Wallonia...).
We have not started negotiations yet, there will be elections in Germany and France (and probably others during these two years) and the outlook for the whole region may shift.
The Guardian tends to be consistently hammering the doom and gloom. Yet, if you can take them, you could also take The Express, The Times and The Mail consistently hammering otherwise.
Let's wait the negotiations start.
Coming back to AVIATION which is the main point here, I expect a deal to be hammered between the EU and the UK pretty swift since both have a lot to lose if they do not agree. You may say that on this particular issue, the UK may have problems but remember: if we do not have a deal on aviation, we may not have a deal elsewhere in retaliation...


So how do you know it is not all gloom and doom? Because of a brexiter you know that by definition nothing bad can ever come from brexit?


This is because NO NEGOTIATION has happened yet. Simple, isn't it?


The UK is leaving the EU and the common market, so everything is off, unless you can claw back something through negotiation. But negotiation is a give and take and if you are not prepared to give, there is no take.
 
AnsettB727
Posts: 217
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:19 am

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:55 am

The British won't be able to afford to go anywhere after Brexit, so it's actually not really going to matter. We can just sit here and watch the rest of Europe having fun without us.
 
User avatar
SomebodyInTLS
Posts: 1888
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:31 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:02 am

Jomar777 wrote:
UK is the biggest net contributor


Well then we can ignore any other "facts" you may try to present after that doozy.

Germany, France, UK on total net contributions (Germany pays twice as much as UK); Germany, Belgium, Denmark, Netherlands, Sweden, France, Luxembourg, Italy then UK only NINTH wrt. gross national income.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
Jerry123
Posts: 321
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:58 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:18 am

AnsettB727 wrote:
The British won't be able to afford to go anywhere after Brexit, so it's actually not really going to matter. We can just sit here and watch the rest of Europe having fun without us.

I doubt very much that Europe will be having fun as they'll be in an economic crisis too. The EU and UK are economically linked and any reccession in the UK will be bad for the EU and the rest of the world.
 
LJ
Posts: 5448
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:26 am

Jomar777 wrote:
The first thing is Trade (UK has a significant NET deficit against the EU) Second is Tourism. Third (and maybe the most serious one) is the fact that the remaining 27 Countries will have to plug the EU Budget HOle caused by the (possible...) lack of UK contributions (UK is the biggest net contributor). Directly in regards to Denmark, I do not know but note that, together with the UK, Denmark is the only country which terminantly refused to join the Euro (Sweden is out of the EU-Zone only on technicality). Danish Position in regards to this maybe weaken given that a much further integration is now sought by the EU towards avoiding further countries leaving the Union.
But... at present... this is all speculation.


As you may know, both the EU and the UK already position themselves in public about what they want. However, we all know that nobody is going to get its way as I don't think both the UK and EU have anythiing to gain on a bad relationship. Having said this, any deficit as a result of UK leaving the EU is part of the negociations (for example, EU will ask a GBP50bln exit fee to compensate for, and this is the EU view, financial loss. Needless to say the UK posiiton is not to pay anything, thus already we have something to negociate.

Coming back to aviation. The problem which some people in the UK fail to recognise is that one cannot be member of the common aviation market without accepting integration in other areas. Thinking that the UK could have an agreement with the UK like it now has in aviation, without agreeing to the agreements attached to the common aviation market is something nobody (except those die hard Brexit supporters) expects the EU to accept (simply because it's already in the legal framework and thus it would need a lot of new legislation to accomodate UK's special status).

Is this all speculation? Yes, but it's speculation which based on logic, history and on statements by EU officials. Is it all bluf? Nobody knows but better be prepared for the worst (hence why already some financial institutions announced moving parts of their UK operation to other EU countries).

BTW Poland is also against the Euro (and won't be implementing it anytime soon.
 
JJJ
Posts: 3807
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:33 am

mjoelnir wrote:
Jomar777 wrote:
prebennorholm wrote:
Could you please elaborate what you expect the EU could lose in case agreements lag behind.

The UK loses EU membership, but the other 27 EU countries don't. Business as usual. There will be minor changes in EU27, but hardly anything at risk to be lost.

Here in Denmark nobody expects to lose anything no matter what agreements will result. The effects here in Denmark happened last year, and are very minor. Our bacon export suffered slightly, and search was done for new and better markets since the GBP plummeted. On the other hand Danish weekend power-shopping in London is booming for the same reason.

But the plummeted pound isn't brexit. It's only one consequence of brexit.


The first thing is Trade (UK has a significant NET deficit against the EU) Second is Tourism. Third (and maybe the most serious one) is the fact that the remaining 27 Countries will have to plug the EU Budget HOle caused by the (possible...) lack of UK contributions (UK is the biggest net contributor). Directly in regards to Denmark, I do not know but note that, together with the UK, Denmark is the only country which terminantly refused to join the Euro (Sweden is out of the EU-Zone only on technicality). Danish Position in regards to this maybe weaken given that a much further integration is now sought by the EU towards avoiding further countries leaving the Union.
But... at present... this is all speculation.


Where do people get the idea that the UK is the biggest net contributor to the EU? A net contributor, but the biggest is very simple Germany. The UK would be the biggest contributor, but there is the 66% rebate on net payments to the EU. There is often some misunderstanding, but even Italy is a net contributor.


Per capita the UK contributes roughly the same as Norway, which isn't even a EU member but has to pay for market access and comply with labour movement, law harmonisation, etc.

https://infacts.org/norwegians-pay-same ... eu-access/

If the UK wants to keep market access (even in a reduced form) it will have to pay into the EU.

That's why there's so much talk recently about hard Brexit what ifs. Mrs. May has drawn a number of red lines (no labour movement, no payments into the EU) that are not coincident with a negotiated outcome. They will either have to redraw those lines or face the prospect of a hard Brexit.
 
Jomar777
Posts: 577
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:45 am

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:43 am

LJ wrote:
Jomar777 wrote:
The first thing is Trade (UK has a significant NET deficit against the EU) Second is Tourism. Third (and maybe the most serious one) is the fact that the remaining 27 Countries will have to plug the EU Budget HOle caused by the (possible...) lack of UK contributions (UK is the biggest net contributor). Directly in regards to Denmark, I do not know but note that, together with the UK, Denmark is the only country which terminantly refused to join the Euro (Sweden is out of the EU-Zone only on technicality). Danish Position in regards to this maybe weaken given that a much further integration is now sought by the EU towards avoiding further countries leaving the Union.
But... at present... this is all speculation.


As you may know, both the EU and the UK already position themselves in public about what they want. However, we all know that nobody is going to get its way as I don't think both the UK and EU have anythiing to gain on a bad relationship. Having said this, any deficit as a result of UK leaving the EU is part of the negociations (for example, EU will ask a GBP50bln exit fee to compensate for, and this is the EU view, financial loss. Needless to say the UK posiiton is not to pay anything, thus already we have something to negociate.

Coming back to aviation. The problem which some people in the UK fail to recognise is that one cannot be member of the common aviation market without accepting integration in other areas. Thinking that the UK could have an agreement with the UK like it now has in aviation, without agreeing to the agreements attached to the common aviation market is something nobody (except those die hard Brexit supporters) expects the EU to accept (simply because it's already in the legal framework and thus it would need a lot of new legislation to accomodate UK's special status).

Is this all speculation? Yes, but it's speculation which based on logic, history and on statements by EU officials. Is it all bluf? Nobody knows but better be prepared for the worst (hence why already some financial institutions announced moving parts of their UK operation to other EU countries).

BTW Poland is also against the Euro (and won't be implementing it anytime soon.


We keep seeing (and saying...) that because UK might not be on the Common market, it may not have a Common Aviation Policy. Sorry but I do not believe this. never happened because this is a formula that was never tried out. I would say that the UK may FAIL to get a Common Aviation Policy but not that it is impossible or will be impossible for years to come.

Personally, I believe a deal of some sort will be struck since, otherwise, it would weaken the EU Market and give strength to Middle East Airports/Airlines.
You are right - Poland is still with the Zloty - but expect pressure to move to the EURO once Britain leaves unless the EU changes it is approach to a more loosen Union.
 
Jomar777
Posts: 577
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:45 am

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:51 am

JJJ wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
Jomar777 wrote:

The first thing is Trade (UK has a significant NET deficit against the EU) Second is Tourism. Third (and maybe the most serious one) is the fact that the remaining 27 Countries will have to plug the EU Budget HOle caused by the (possible...) lack of UK contributions (UK is the biggest net contributor). Directly in regards to Denmark, I do not know but note that, together with the UK, Denmark is the only country which terminantly refused to join the Euro (Sweden is out of the EU-Zone only on technicality). Danish Position in regards to this maybe weaken given that a much further integration is now sought by the EU towards avoiding further countries leaving the Union.
But... at present... this is all speculation.


Where do people get the idea that the UK is the biggest net contributor to the EU? A net contributor, but the biggest is very simple Germany. The UK would be the biggest contributor, but there is the 66% rebate on net payments to the EU. There is often some misunderstanding, but even Italy is a net contributor.


Per capita the UK contributes roughly the same as Norway, which isn't even a EU member but has to pay for market access and comply with labour movement, law harmonisation, etc.

https://infacts.org/norwegians-pay-same ... eu-access/

Per Capita Contribution does NOT means that Norway generates as much Budget Income to the EU as UK. Do not place the Rebate on this measurement since it does not apply. UK would have to contribute much more if was not for the rebate. Check the EU Official Website and draw your conclusions.
Obviously, the EU will demand a payment from the Uk for leaving but you can rest assured will never be in the region of EUR 50b AND this will NOT mean that we will have a Hard Brexit.
People keep saying that, if the UK does not agrees to EU demands of cash/stop being in the common Market/loses the Common Aviation Policy, it will end up having a hard time. But the same people forget to evaluate the consequences for the EU for alienating the UK in such a way.it is bad for both so there will certainly be some compromising and the EU will not be able to adopt a hard instance.

If the UK wants to keep market access (even in a reduced form) it will have to pay into the EU.

That's why there's so much talk recently about hard Brexit what ifs. Mrs. May has drawn a number of red lines (no labour movement, no payments into the EU) that are not coincident with a negotiated outcome. They will either have to redraw those lines or face the prospect of a hard Brexit.
 
Jomar777
Posts: 577
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:45 am

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:55 am

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
Jomar777 wrote:
UK is the biggest net contributor


Well then we can ignore any other "facts" you may try to present after that doozy.

Germany, France, UK on total net contributions (Germany pays twice as much as UK); Germany, Belgium, Denmark, Netherlands, Sweden, France, Luxembourg, Italy then UK only NINTH wrt. gross national income.


Or maybe you should go back to school to learn to be more polite and maybe re-check the EU Official Website in regards to Contribution. You will see that, if you count the rebate, you may have also to count on the Grants given for research, farmers support, etc. etc. etc.

The UK is the biggest contributor as I said. The Biggest NET contributor, The Biggest Per Capita Contributor or any other measurement you may want to use does not relates to what I was commenting.
 
Olddog
Posts: 1559
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:41 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:22 am

Don't worry, you will keep that money for the NHS soon :P
 
JJJ
Posts: 3807
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:35 am

Jomar777 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:

Where do people get the idea that the UK is the biggest net contributor to the EU? A net contributor, but the biggest is very simple Germany. The UK would be the biggest contributor, but there is the 66% rebate on net payments to the EU. There is often some misunderstanding, but even Italy is a net contributor.


Per capita the UK contributes roughly the same as Norway, which isn't even a EU member but has to pay for market access and comply with labour movement, law harmonisation, etc.

https://infacts.org/norwegians-pay-same ... eu-access/

Per Capita Contribution does NOT means that Norway generates as much Budget Income to the EU as UK. Do not place the Rebate on this measurement since it does not apply. UK would have to contribute much more if was not for the rebate. Check the EU Official Website and draw your conclusions.
Obviously, the EU will demand a payment from the Uk for leaving but you can rest assured will never be in the region of EUR 50b AND this will NOT mean that we will have a Hard Brexit.


You're mixing two different things here. One is the exit bill, basically that the UK has made a series of commitments they cannot back away from (pensions, etc.), that's a given.

The other is that even countries like Norway or Switzerland that are outside the EU but enjoy EU access make yearly payments to the EU budget in the case of Norway to a similar tune as the UK per capita (though a potential UK contribution would likely be smaller because UK GDP per capita is also lower.

Even if you leave the club as a member, you still have to pay if you want to keep using the facilities (i.e. common market, passporting). No payment, no deal, hence hard Brexit.

It's a lose-lose situation, but that's one corner the May government have painted themselves into.
 
Unflug
Posts: 729
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:25 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:47 am

Jomar777 wrote:
Pure speculation from The Guardian (one of the few (the only mainstream) of REMOANERS that exist.
Nobody know for certain what it will happen so it is purely speculation Although the EU has its own administration, it needs consensus and approval of any deal by the member nations (Belgium, as we saw, even count as two - Flanders and Wallonia...).
We have not started negotiations yet, there will be elections in Germany and France (and probably others during these two years) and the outlook for the whole region may shift.
The Guardian tends to be consistently hammering the doom and gloom. Yet, if you can take them, you could also take The Express, The Times and The Mail consistently hammering otherwise.
Let's wait the negotiations start.
Coming back to AVIATION which is the main point here, I expect a deal to be hammered between the EU and the UK pretty swift since both have a lot to lose if they do not agree. You may say that on this particular issue, the UK may have problems but remember: if we do not have a deal on aviation, we may not have a deal elsewhere in retaliation...


The question is who could possibly live without a deal, and who can't.
 
EVAInHouse
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:09 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:55 am

Aside from passenger routes, does anyone have anything to offer regarding Brexit's affect on exporting and cargo. As you'll all know, the government pushed the mandate of 'exporting is great' in 2015. Does that fall down today post-Brexit?
 
Ryanair01
Posts: 485
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:27 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:57 am

Jomar777 wrote:
I expect a deal to be hammered between the EU and the UK pretty swift since both have a lot to lose if they do not agree. You may say that on this particular issue, the UK may have problems but remember: if we do not have a deal on aviation, we may not have a deal elsewhere in retaliation...


The problem with that theory is that EU negotiators have no incentive at all. Give away access to every non UK major air route in Europe in return for what, London to Edinburgh and a few other scraps? Hardly equitable. Free access out of the EU into the UK (but not within either) maybe of interest, but with the powerful airlines like Lufthansa and KLM/Air France already holding every right they might ever want, they have nothing to gain from it. Ryanair and Norwegian carry a lot less political power than LH/KL/AF.

Jomar777 wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:
Jomar777 wrote:
UK is the biggest net contributor


Well then we can ignore any other "facts" you may try to present after that doozy.

Germany, France, UK on total net contributions (Germany pays twice as much as UK); Germany, Belgium, Denmark, Netherlands, Sweden, France, Luxembourg, Italy then UK only NINTH wrt. gross national income.


Or maybe you should go back to school to learn to be more polite and maybe re-check the EU Official Website in regards to Contribution. You will see that, if you count the rebate, you may have also to count on the Grants given for research, farmers support, etc. etc. etc.

The UK is the biggest contributor as I said. The Biggest NET contributor, The Biggest Per Capita Contributor or any other measurement you may want to use does not relates to what I was commenting.


So if you fiddle the figures you can manipulate an answer that suits your case? Well done. Unfortunately your fiddle stat is not an internationally tried, tested, recognised or accepted measure of anything, using the tested measures without fiddling anything the UK is not what you claim. Simples.....
 
User avatar
SomebodyInTLS
Posts: 1888
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:31 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:22 am

Jomar777 wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:
Jomar777 wrote:
UK is the biggest net contributor


Well then we can ignore any other "facts" you may try to present after that doozy.

Germany, France, UK on total net contributions (Germany pays twice as much as UK); Germany, Belgium, Denmark, Netherlands, Sweden, France, Luxembourg, Italy then UK only NINTH wrt. gross national income.


Or maybe you should go back to school to learn to be more polite and maybe re-check the EU Official Website in regards to Contribution. You will see that, if you count the rebate, you may have also to count on the Grants given for research, farmers support, etc. etc. etc.

The UK is the biggest contributor as I said. The Biggest NET contributor, The Biggest Per Capita Contributor or any other measurement you may want to use does not relates to what I was commenting.


I was reacting that way since EVERY source I've ever seen puts Germany WAY AHEAD as the biggest NET contributor. I was quoting WikiPedia(*), which puts UK third - certainly not first.

Only after that did I say that if you start to look as percentage of GNI then it's much worse. In fact, using WikiPedia's source;
Countries whose contribution is below average for both the GNI ratio
and the per capita contribution. The United Kingdom is the only member state in such a situation (0.60% of its GNI and €1,242 of per capita contribution).

https://www.ceps.eu/system/files/Financ ... Colour.pdf

There's a nice graph on page 23 which illustrates the point above - the UK can be seen to be the least "giving" member of the club.

(*) You will note that their source is the Centre for European Policy Studies... an official EU think tank.

So I have seen zero evidence for what you (and only you) claim.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9411
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:56 pm

Jomar777 wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:
Jomar777 wrote:
UK is the biggest net contributor


Well then we can ignore any other "facts" you may try to present after that doozy.

Germany, France, UK on total net contributions (Germany pays twice as much as UK); Germany, Belgium, Denmark, Netherlands, Sweden, France, Luxembourg, Italy then UK only NINTH wrt. gross national income.


Or maybe you should go back to school to learn to be more polite and maybe re-check the EU Official Website in regards to Contribution. You will see that, if you count the rebate, you may have also to count on the Grants given for research, farmers support, etc. etc. etc.

The UK is the biggest contributor as I said. The Biggest NET contributor, The Biggest Per Capita Contributor or any other measurement you may want to use does not relates to what I was commenting.


Perhaps you should start going back to school yourself.

Here is the data: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/n ... mber-state

EU contributions of the UK: 18,209.4 M€ - EU spending in the UK 7,457.6 M€ = Net contributions 10,751.8 M€
EU contributions of Germany: 24,283.4 M€ - EU spending in Germany 11,013,3 M€ = Net contributions 13,270.1 M€
 
User avatar
SomebodyInTLS
Posts: 1888
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:31 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:28 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
Here is the data: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/n ... mber-state

EU contributions of the UK: 18,209.4 M€ - EU spending in the UK 7,457.6 M€ = Net contributions 10,751.8 M€
EU contributions of Germany: 24,283.4 M€ - EU spending in Germany 11,013,3 M€ = Net contributions 13,270.1 M€


Just to add: these figures are for 2015, the WikiPedia figures I quoted are for the years 2007-2013.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
LJ
Posts: 5448
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:52 pm

Jomar777 wrote:
We keep seeing (and saying...) that because UK might not be on the Common market, it may not have a Common Aviation Policy. Sorry but I do not believe this. never happened because this is a formula that was never tried out. I would say that the UK may FAIL to get a Common Aviation Policy but not that it is impossible or will be impossible for years to come.

Maybe the UK should ask Norway and especially Switzerland (as they're neither EU nor EEA member) how the EU negociates its treaties and how it attaches one treaty to another. The Swiss could only vote for the complete packages as the EU was clear, it's all or nothing.

Jomar777 wrote:
Personally, I believe a deal of some sort will be struck since, otherwise, it would weaken the EU Market and give strength to Middle East Airports/Airlines.

Please explain. Airlines like KL and LH had Open Skies with UK before the Common aviation market. If the UK leaves the EU and cannot get a deal with the EU these agreements will remain in place. As such I doubt that we'll see less KL flights in the UK. Same for some other airlines. Moreover, the majority of passengers is still intra-Europe, not a market the ME airlines will serve.

Jomar777 wrote:
You are right - Poland is still with the Zloty - but expect pressure to move to the EURO once Britain leaves unless the EU changes it is approach to a more loosen Union.

Which newspapers are you reading? You do know that the Polish government isn't exactly very pro-Europe? The EU has other issues more important to adress with Poland.
 
LJ
Posts: 5448
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:16 pm

Seems that LH CEO isn't as optimistic as our fellow member Jomar777.....and that from someone who actually speaks to Merkel.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-28/lufthansa-warns-brexit-to-hit-u-k-airlines-as-eu-plays-tough
 
PanHAM
Posts: 9719
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:49 am

EVAInHouse wrote:
Aside from passenger routes, does anyone have anything to offer regarding Brexit's affect on exporting and cargo. As you'll all know, the government pushed the mandate of 'exporting is great' in 2015. Does that fall down today post-Brexit?


Exports by air road and short sea won't be affected ttoo much, the statitic forms come into effect again for exports to the EU27. That was eleminated in favor of monthly reports, making life easier with less bureaucracy. Bad for UK exporters

That System serves for imports as well. A siple notificaition on a monthly base and the single market Merchandise was in the UK VAT System. As trhe UK won't participate in the single market any longer each and every Merchandise imported into the UK must from day X onwards cleared either at the border crossings, which are air and seaports, the channel tunnel Exit in Kent or a designated Inland port. That holds up shipments, costs trime and Money for the additional forms that have to be raised.

It creates a couple of unproductive Jobs, but that's the only effect some might call good. On the bottom line, everything will be less efficient and add to consumer Prices.....

I wonder how Long it will take to find out that the Brexit was the most stupid Thing voters ever made. At least in the UK.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
User avatar
SomebodyInTLS
Posts: 1888
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:31 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:33 am

PanHAM wrote:
I wonder how Long it will take to find out that the Brexit was the most stupid Thing voters ever made. At least in the UK.


By the time the effects are fully felt (a decade or more) most of the Brexit voters will be dead. I'll probably live long enough to say "I told you so", and hope to still be around when the next generation fix things again (but I'll be retired in the Pyrenees by then).
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
PanHAM
Posts: 9719
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:45 am

There's always hope that mistakes will be corrected. I saw a nice new word this morning "Br-re-exit" and our finance Minister was quoted "Dear Brits, ze door is schtill open" :-)
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
UltimoTiger777
Posts: 458
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:19 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:22 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
PanHAM wrote:
I wonder how Long it will take to find out that the Brexit was the most stupid Thing voters ever made. At least in the UK.


By the time the effects are fully felt (a decade or more) most of the Brexit voters will be dead. I'll probably live long enough to say "I told you so", and hope to still be around when the next generation fix things again (but I'll be retired in the Pyrenees by then).


And most of the young remain voters might have grown enough brain cells to see how silly voting to stay in was in the first place.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9411
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:42 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
Here is the data: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/n ... mber-state

EU contributions of the UK: 18,209.4 M€ - EU spending in the UK 7,457.6 M€ = Net contributions 10,751.8 M€
EU contributions of Germany: 24,283.4 M€ - EU spending in Germany 11,013,3 M€ = Net contributions 13,270.1 M€


Just to add: these figures are for 2015, the WikiPedia figures I quoted are for the years 2007-2013.


In those years the net contribution of the UK is less and every year below Germany.
 
LJ
Posts: 5448
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:03 pm

PanHAM wrote:
Exports by air road and short sea won't be affected ttoo much, the statitic forms come into effect again for exports to the EU27. That was eleminated in favor of monthly reports, making life easier with less bureaucracy. Bad for UK exporters


Yet I don't think I'll order much on Amazon.co.uk anymore... Every order above EUR 32 will be subject to import duties :(

BTW Yes I know that we have other Amazon sites in Europe, but Amazon.co.uk was regulary cheaper (and that was also before the Brexit announcement)
 
Ken777
Posts: 10148
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:12 pm

LHR is not moving to the EU and that will continue to be an important for EU airlines.

Then there is the issue of the alliances, and that is of importance to the EU.

All in all, the UK has something to bring to the table to off-set threats from EU government workers.

Personally I believe that intelligent, non-hostile discussions should clear up these issues within a short time. Like NATO, the EU will want to be as close as possible to the UK. No reason to push them further away.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13955
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:49 am

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
PanHAM wrote:
I wonder how Long it will take to find out that the Brexit was the most stupid Thing voters ever made. At least in the UK.


By the time the effects are fully felt (a decade or more) most of the Brexit voters will be dead. I'll probably live long enough to say "I told you so", and hope to still be around when the next generation fix things again (but I'll be retired in the Pyrenees by then).


And those dead Brexiters will rotate in their graves and provide green energy, since a re-entry would come with the EURO and Schengen Agreement in force.

Ken777 wrote:
LHR is not moving to the EU and that will continue to be an important for EU airlines.


That just requires rights to fly EU-UK, UK-EU, which pretty much is a given.

Then there is the issue of the alliances, and that is of importance to the EU.


How do alliances matter? IAG most likely will have to sell of EU Airlines, or split into two entities with the required ownership structure.

All in all, the UK has something to bring to the table to off-set threats from EU government workers.


Yes, they do. They are also still the ones having to lose more. BA being limited in serving the continent would hurt LHR and BA much, much more than the pinch LH, KL, AF and so on would feel if the end up limited in flying into the UK.

Personally I believe that intelligent, non-hostile discussions should clear up these issues within a short time. Like NATO, the EU will want to be as close as possible to the UK. No reason to push them further away.


Yes, they will. It is in everybody´s best interest to make the transition as smooth, reasonable, reassuring and peaceful as possible. That does however not change that the Common market is an all or nothing deal. No free movement of people means no free movement of anything else. The chances of that being changed are about as high as the EU requiring the US to abandon the 2nd Amendement to get a signature on TTIP and the US actually doing that. Zero.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
vfw614
Posts: 3884
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:34 am

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:13 am

The first thing is Trade (UK has a significant NET deficit against the EU


So what? Could it be any different if a country trades with the largest economy in the world that is a couple of times the size (GDP-wise) of said country? Isn't it more insightful to consoier what percentage of exports from the UK go to the EU and what percentage from EU's exports actually go the UK? And for which of those economies will it be easier to find alternatives to place its products - a Hungarian company can sell its products it currently sells to the UK for exactly the same conditions to 26 other countries. A UK company can sell its products it currently sells to the EU for exactly the same conditions to no other country, but only domestically. Of course the UK can sell to the EU under WTO rules, but this will increase the cost of the product and make it less competitive to the same product produced within the EU (and, no, lowering taxes and devalueing the pound to off-set this is not a long-term solution as the UK already has one of the lowest corporate tax rates of all industry nations and the UK also needs to buy abroad for obvious reasons)
 
pompos
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:32 am

tommy1808 wrote:
How do alliances matter? IAG most likely will have to sell of EU Airlines, or split into two entities with the required ownership structure.

I guess this might be totally on UK side as IAG is a Spanish company. Hence, UK could unilaterally allow 100% foreign ownership of airlines.
tommy1808 wrote:
All in all, the UK has something to bring to the table to off-set threats from EU government workers.


Yes, they do. They are also still the ones having to lose more. BA being limited in serving the continent would hurt LHR and BA much, much more than the pinch LH, KL, AF and so on would feel if the end up limited in flying into the UK.

Totally agree. Besides hurting the airlines, it would hurt the UK citizens and economy (esp. outside of London) much more than the EU citizens and economy.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13955
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:03 am

pompos wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
How do alliances matter? IAG most likely will have to sell of EU Airlines, or split into two entities with the required ownership structure.

I guess this might be totally on UK side as IAG is a Spanish company. Hence, UK could unilaterally allow 100% foreign ownership of airlines.


Good point.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
PanHAM
Posts: 9719
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:19 am

tommy1808 wrote:
pompos wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
How do alliances matter? IAG most likely will have to sell of EU Airlines, or split into two entities with the required ownership structure.

I guess this might be totally on UK side as IAG is a Spanish company. Hence, UK could unilaterally allow 100% foreign ownership of airlines.


Good point.

best regards
Thomas




Bad.Emirates or Qatar would love that, I guess they'd pay whatever is asked to owb BA fully. The Brits want to Exit the EU so they can controll their assets themselves and sell out a prime infrastructure asset to a ME owner. That would be a bad joke.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13955
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:31 pm

PanHAM wrote:
Bad.Emirates or Qatar would love that, I guess they'd pay whatever is asked to owb BA fully. The Brits want to Exit the EU so they can controll their assets themselves and sell out a prime infrastructure asset to a ME owner. That would be a bad joke.


You are right. And thinking about it further, even if the UK does allow 100% foreign ownership, those countries they are flying to may still say "no" to that arrangement.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
vfw614
Posts: 3884
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:34 am

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:14 pm

pompos wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
How do alliances matter? IAG most likely will have to sell of EU Airlines, or split into two entities with the required ownership structure.

I guess this might be totally on UK side as IAG is a Spanish company. Hence, UK could unilaterally allow 100% foreign ownership of airlines.


Foreign ownership is not defined by the legal form of the entity, but by the nationality of the shareholders. I doubt that the majority of shareholders in IAG are Spanish, but I am happy to stand corrected.

For that reason, by the way, one interesting issue at the moment is whether Stelios' shares in easyjet are counted as UK-owned or Cypriot-owned..
 
pompos
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:15 pm

PanHAM wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
pompos wrote:
I guess this might be totally on UK side as IAG is a Spanish company. Hence, UK could unilaterally allow 100% foreign ownership of airlines.


Good point.

best regards
Thomas


Bad.Emirates or Qatar would love that, I guess they'd pay whatever is asked to owb BA fully. The Brits want to Exit the EU so they can controll their assets themselves and sell out a prime infrastructure asset to a ME owner. That would be a bad joke.

Brexit isn't making everything British owned. The only thing Brexit will accomplish is that the Brits can make their own rules for themselves. Meaning, they could probably restrict the foreign ownership however they like. For instance, only allow it for IAG's ownership of BA or only EU companies etc.
I am pretty sure that something like that is happening as I cannot believe UK government would want to force IAG to spin off BA.
 
PanHAM
Posts: 9719
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:31 pm

It is not what the British government wants, it will be what the EU agrees to and, believe it or not, the UK picked the shorter straw
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
LAH1
Posts: 153
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:24 pm

Re: UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes

Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:39 pm

PanHAM wrote:
It is not what the British government wants, it will be what the EU agrees to and, believe it or not, the UK picked the shorter straw


If what the EU agrees to isn't what the UK agrees to there 'll be no agreement, simple. Whether or not the UK comes off worst or different is anyone's guess considering the negotiations are yet to start it's all a bit airy fairy.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Braybuddy, hoons90, Runway28L, SL1200MK2 and 48 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos