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Hillis
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Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Mon May 01, 2017 9:49 pm

The not-ready-for-primetime party strikes again.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/01/politics/ ... index.html

They own Capitol Hill and the White House and they still can't put together major legislation that will pass. Then again, it's probably a good thing for a whole lot of Americans that they can't as the real GOP Healthcare plan is simple: don't get sick.

They simply cannot govern.
 
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einsteinboricua
Posts: 8710
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Re: Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Tue May 02, 2017 11:41 am

While I'm grabbing popcorn with this, the vote has yet to be scheduled, so I wouldn't say it's strike two yet. Keeping in tune with the baseball reference, this is the batter having walked up to the plate and warming up for the second pitch.
 
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mbmbos
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Re: Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Tue May 02, 2017 1:37 pm

The problem is, despite the negative connotations surrounding the ACA ("Obamacare"), the benefits they so desperately want to remove are wildly popular. Things like pre-existing conditions, covering adult children under family plans, having some control over premium costs are just the items that citizens demand.

That's the problem with the G.O.P.; they're masters at sliming any initiative that's not their own, but once you drill down to the particulars, these initiatives are what the voters want. When you get down to it, not much the Republican party is selling is popular with voters.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 13927
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Re: Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Tue May 02, 2017 2:06 pm

The GOP is having a hard time making the turn from the party of opposition to the party in charge of governing. All the rhetoric and gaslighting that they did to their constituents during the last few years has created a large pile of promises, that they never new how to keep, or even how it would really look .

The GOP is still a big tent, and the far right is further from the moderates of the party than most of America is . Unfortunately the far right has been given the driving wheel, and they are behaving like drunken teenagers. Reckless, and no real destination in mind.

This health bill won't pass the muster of the moderates that actually have to compete in elections. If it makes it through the house,it will die quickly in the senate.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Tue May 02, 2017 2:34 pm

casinterest wrote:
The GOP is having a hard time making the turn from the party of opposition to the party in charge of governing. All the rhetoric and gaslighting that they did to their constituents during the last few years has created a large pile of promises, that they never new how to keep, or even how it would really look .

The GOP is still a big tent, and the far right is further from the moderates of the party than most of America is . Unfortunately the far right has been given the driving wheel, and they are behaving like drunken teenagers. Reckless, and no real destination in mind.

This health bill won't pass the muster of the moderates that actually have to compete in elections. If it makes it through the house,it will die quickly in the senate.

To top it all off, they still blame the Democrats for their lack of progress...as if Democrats have any real power. Suddenly, the infamous and unofficial Hastert Rule is coming to bite them in the rear end: not a majority of Republicans are on board with the proposal so they want Democrat votes...and it's Democrats who are at fault for not supporting something they don't support anyway.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Tue May 02, 2017 3:37 pm

Only bad people get sick! AL republican said so himself. What's more Christian and pro-life than throwing 20+MM off their healthcare? Amirite?
 
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Tugger
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Re: Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Tue May 02, 2017 4:44 pm

I think one big issue with this latest attempt/version is the unambiguous statement by Trump that the new plan is guaranteed to, "must have", cover preexisting conditions and have lower premiums than the ACA. I don't think they expected that but we'll see.

Tugg
Last edited by Tugger on Tue May 02, 2017 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
luckyone
Posts: 4037
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Tue May 02, 2017 4:48 pm

Tugger wrote:
I think one big issue with this latest attempt/version is the unambiguous statement by Trump that the new plan is guaranteed to, "must have", cover preexisting conditions and have lower premiums the ACA. I don't think they expected that but we'll see.

Tugg

And amusing to me was he statement that the Pre-existing conditions coverage will be "as good as Obamacare." But wait!! I thought Obamacare was the worst thing ever!!
 
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Tugger
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Re: Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Tue May 02, 2017 4:59 pm

The only real problem the ACA/Obamacare had was that the Republicans refused to participate. And the hard part for them now is that they are forced to now do what they should have done from the beginning. But the bad plan now is trying to do this without any participation from Democrats.

It is just stupid.

Tugg
 
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Kiwirob
Posts: 13633
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Tue May 02, 2017 7:01 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
Only bad people get sick! AL republican said so himself. What's more Christian and pro-life than throwing 20+MM off their healthcare? Amirite?


Now you're sounding like BMI's wet dream.
 
Hillis
Topic Author
Posts: 1307
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:19 pm

Re: Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Tue May 02, 2017 9:30 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Only bad people get sick! AL republican said so himself. What's more Christian and pro-life than throwing 20+MM off their healthcare? Amirite?


Now you're sounding like BMI's wet dream.


Maverick was being sarcastic; BMI actually believes that kind of tripe he posts.
 
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BobPatterson
Posts: 3416
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Re: Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Tue May 02, 2017 11:29 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
While I'm grabbing popcorn with this, the vote has yet to be scheduled, so I wouldn't say it's strike two yet. Keeping in tune with the baseball reference, this is the batter having walked up to the plate and warming up for the second pitch.


Going along with your suggestion, how many balls can a bill, or party, accumulate on the way to a strikeout? Are there any three-balled legislators?

Intentional walks?
 
Hillis
Topic Author
Posts: 1307
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:19 pm

Re: Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Tue May 02, 2017 11:46 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
While I'm grabbing popcorn with this, the vote has yet to be scheduled, so I wouldn't say it's strike two yet. Keeping in tune with the baseball reference, this is the batter having walked up to the plate and warming up for the second pitch.


Going along with your suggestion, how many balls can a bill, or party, accumulate on the way to a strikeout? Are there any three-balled legislators?

Intentional walks?


Stop embarrassing yourself Bob.
 
Ken777
Posts: 10194
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

Re: Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Wed May 03, 2017 1:25 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
To top it all off, they still blame the Democrats for their lack of progress...as if Democrats have any real power. Suddenly, the infamous and unofficial Hastert Rule is coming to bite them in the rear end: not a majority of Republicans are on board with the proposal so they want Democrat votes...and it's Democrats who are at fault for not supporting something they don't support anyway.


Actually the Democrats do have a lot of power - just like the Party of No had when they were not in the majority. The Democrats have learned from the Party of No and the GOP is now paying for that.

As for the Haster Rule, that should have been trashed when Haster was found guilty.

As for the GOP Health Care program, it is all focused on improving the Health Care of the Billionaire Boys Club financial positions. Trump needs $883 Billion for his Billionaire Boys Club Tax Cut and kicking 24 million off of Medicaid will deliver $880 million. The other $3 Billion? There is a state's grant at that amount - covers Meals on Wheels to the aged, sick, etc.

Hopefully the GOP efforts to kill ObamaCare will die as TrumpCare will be a disaster beyond belief. But the Billionaires Boys Club will be fine, thank you very much.
 
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WarRI1
Posts: 14195
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Re: Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Wed May 03, 2017 1:42 am

Ken777 wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
To top it all off, they still blame the Democrats for their lack of progress...as if Democrats have any real power. Suddenly, the infamous and unofficial Hastert Rule is coming to bite them in the rear end: not a majority of Republicans are on board with the proposal so they want Democrat votes...and it's Democrats who are at fault for not supporting something they don't support anyway.


Actually the Democrats do have a lot of power - just like the Party of No had when they were not in the majority. The Democrats have learned from the Party of No and the GOP is now paying for that.

As for the Haster Rule, that should have been trashed when Haster was found guilty.

As for the GOP Health Care program, it is all focused on improving the Health Care of the Billionaire Boys Club financial positions. Trump needs $883 Billion for his Billionaire Boys Club Tax Cut and kicking 24 million off of Medicaid will deliver $880 million. The other $3 Billion? There is a state's grant at that amount - covers Meals on Wheels to the aged, sick, etc.

Hopefully the GOP efforts to kill ObamaCare will die as TrumpCare will be a disaster beyond belief. But the Billionaires Boys Club will be fine, thank you very much.



Right on the money. The Republicans have no shame, greed has no shame. I am convinced that the Republicans feel all the people on Obamacare who will lose coverage are poor and Democratic voters who will never vote Republican anyway so they have written them off. They just do not care :banghead:
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Wed May 03, 2017 1:43 am

mbmbos wrote:
The problem is, despite the negative connotations surrounding the ACA ("Obamacare"), the benefits they so desperately want to remove are wildly popular. Things like pre-existing conditions, covering adult children under family plans, having some control over premium costs are just the items that citizens demand.

That's the problem with the G.O.P.; they're masters at sliming any initiative that's not their own, but once you drill down to the particulars, these initiatives are what the voters want. When you get down to it, not much the Republican party is selling is popular with voters.



You have that right, and well said.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Wed May 03, 2017 4:42 am

Kiwirob wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Only bad people get sick! AL republican said so himself. What's more Christian and pro-life than throwing 20+MM off their healthcare? Amirite?


Now you're sounding like BMI's wet dream.

Yessss! Those babies should know better than to be born prematurely to poor parents. If you're born at 7 months it's bootstraps time--get a job!
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14662
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Wed May 03, 2017 5:35 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
If you're born at 7 months it's bootstraps time--get a job!


If you want a legal abortion, send your kid working in a coal mine to die because of not having health insurance.Abortion is only bad before they paid taxes, once they stop doing so (See Trumpcare premium hike for the old) it is also fine for them to die. "Sozialverträgliches Frühableben*" is the German phrase for it, maybe Trump and the GOP want to adopt that slogan?

best regards
Thomas

*something like "socially beneficial early death"
 
kellyon
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:17 am

Re: Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Wed May 03, 2017 11:55 am

A lot of people are criticizing Obamacare. Obamacare is resulting in higher wait times at the emergency room. I read that many healthcare professionals are saying that the problem is in the entire health insurance system. Today it's not so easy to find reliable insurance company. As for me, when I moved to California last year I got special workers insurance here https://www.mis-insurance.com/workers-insurance/ at my new work. It provides great medical benefits for employees and has low rates.
 
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seb146
Posts: 23956
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Wed May 03, 2017 1:57 pm

I think it is interesting that people who are currently on Obamacare voted for the orange menace because of "repeal and replace" are okay with anything not named "Obama." Even if it takes away their current health care. Why can't Republicans improve on Obamacare? Oh, that's right.... Obama....
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Wed May 03, 2017 4:35 pm

Another GOP luminary suggested those with preexisting conditions should just move states. So anyone born with a preexisting condition, the GOP suggests 1) you're a bad person and/or 2) you can move states.
 
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einsteinboricua
Posts: 8710
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Wed May 03, 2017 4:51 pm

seb146 wrote:
I think it is interesting that people who are currently on Obamacare voted for the orange menace because of "repeal and replace" are okay with anything not named "Obama." Even if it takes away their current health care. Why can't Republicans improve on Obamacare? Oh, that's right.... Obama....

Repeal Obamacare. Just don't touch the ACA.

Similar to Kentuckians who love Kynect but hate Obamacare.

As Shakespeare once wrote: "what's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet."
 
Ken777
Posts: 10194
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

Re: Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Wed May 03, 2017 5:25 pm

kellyon wrote:
A lot of people are criticizing Obamacare. Obamacare is resulting in higher wait times at the emergency room. I read that many healthcare professionals are saying that the problem is in the entire health insurance system. Today it's not so easy to find reliable insurance company. As for me, when I moved to California last year I got special workers insurance here https://www.mis-insurance.com/workers-insurance/ at my new work. It provides great medical benefits for employees and has low rates.


Of course the very wealthy want ObamaCare killed because that will finance that next big tax cut for them. It can be easy to critize the ACA but the Party of No has no desire to deliver any fixes to the existing plan as that blocks that big tax cut.

As to the 5 hour ER wait - BEFORE Obama was elected my wife went through 2 years of chemo for Acute Leukemia. The large, religious based hospital we used required going through the ER in order to be admitted after the Doctor's office hours. A good way to boost revenues $1,000 plus, but in those Bush/Cheney Years we waited those 5 hours almost every time we had to go in. After hours, BTW, were generally caused by fever spikes. The risk of those 5 hours was significantly as chemo patients have zero resistance to all the diseases found in an ER.

Those 5 hours were not related to ObamaCare.

Our private health insurance industry is one of the major causes for our problems - and the reason is greed, pure and simple. They long ago learned that there is more profits in increasing premiums to cover those without the money to pay for needed care than it is to have a rational system of universal coverage for core care. My only experience in that split system is in Australia and I can tell you that the private insurance companies were VERY profitable. So profitable in fact that the government started a private company to compete in that market. Difference in monthly premiums? For me it was $550 a month in the US and $88 a month in Australia for a better policy.

Reliable insurance for me these days is Medicare, plus a private supplemental policy. My doctors know how the system works, they don't have to call 1-800-MOMMIE-MAY-I to get permission for a procedure or expensive test. The private policy is Plan F from State Farm and it covers everything that Medicare does not pay. Not cheap but it gives me total coverage on all deductibles.
 
salttee
Posts: 3149
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Wed May 03, 2017 6:27 pm

kellyon wrote:
Obamacare is resulting in higher wait times at the emergency room.

You have a backwards understanding of the ER wait time issue. The driving force behind the affordable care act was the fact that circa 2009, wait times for ERs were becoming very long for everyone. This was a result of so many people being without medical insurance and being financially unable to afford healthcare. The only option for this growing number of people to get medical attention was to go to an emergency room where everyone who shows up gets seen. The situation had gotten so bad by 2009, that many private hospitals were closing their emergency rooms because they could not afford to provide medical care for so many people who couldn't pay their bills. Some communities were on the verge of losing emergency services altogether. And wait times of 12 hours were not uncommon for non- urgent situations in big cities. And I repeat, it was getting worse every year.

Obamacare averted that crisis.
 
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Tugger
Posts: 11480
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Re: Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Thu May 04, 2017 12:22 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
While I'm grabbing popcorn with this, the vote has yet to be scheduled, so I wouldn't say it's strike two yet. Keeping in tune with the baseball reference, this is the batter having walked up to the plate and warming up for the second pitch.

And here comes the wind up and pitch....

They say they have the votes!

To me the interesting thing will be if they do actually pass it. They need to pass something, is the best they can do and will it solve the problems and improve the lives of their constituents? Only time will tell.

Tugg
 
DLFREEBIRD
Posts: 1605
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Thu May 04, 2017 1:14 am

yeah, but they have to sleep on it.
 
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einsteinboricua
Posts: 8710
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Thu May 04, 2017 2:11 am

Tugger wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
While I'm grabbing popcorn with this, the vote has yet to be scheduled, so I wouldn't say it's strike two yet. Keeping in tune with the baseball reference, this is the batter having walked up to the plate and warming up for the second pitch.

And here comes the wind up and pitch....

They say they have the votes!

To me the interesting thing will be if they do actually pass it. They need to pass something, is the best they can do and will it solve the problems and improve the lives of their constituents? Only time will tell.

Tugg

This is without the umpire (the CBO) having made its assessment of said bill.
 
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WarRI1
Posts: 14195
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

Re: Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Thu May 04, 2017 2:26 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
Tugger wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
While I'm grabbing popcorn with this, the vote has yet to be scheduled, so I wouldn't say it's strike two yet. Keeping in tune with the baseball reference, this is the batter having walked up to the plate and warming up for the second pitch.

And here comes the wind up and pitch....

They say they have the votes!

To me the interesting thing will be if they do actually pass it. They need to pass something, is the best they can do and will it solve the problems and improve the lives of their constituents? Only time will tell.

Tugg

This is without the umpire (the CBO) having made its assessment of said bill.


Remember the rallying cry of the right about the ACA being passed without anyone having read it? I heard tonight on the news that lo and behold the very same thing is happening here. In fact it was surmised there is not even a finished readable bill to read. Bizarre and frightening days ahead for the sick and weak. Also the poor and downtrodden.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Thu May 04, 2017 2:47 am

WarRI1 wrote:
Remember the rallying cry of the right about the ACA being passed without anyone having read it? I heard tonight on the news that lo and behold the very same thing is happening here. In fact it was surmised there is not even a finished readable bill to read. Bizarre and frightening days ahead for the sick and weak. Also the poor and downtrodden.

Let's be realistic, this is dead on arrival to the Senate. McConnell has said he does not plan to get rid of the filibuster for legislation so he'll need Democrats to support the bill (and right now, red-state Democrats and swing-state Republicans stand to gain support if they vote against the bill). Democrats were lucky to have the 60 votes they needed to pass it when they did (ie. invoke cloture). With 52 seats (and possible defections) from Republicans, this bill will die.

The Senate will most likely amend the bill, which then has to go to the House again (if it passes)...and it's likely there will be Republicans who balk (most likely, the Freedom Caucus because of how "generous" it is from the version they sponsored).
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

Re: Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Thu May 04, 2017 3:42 am

WarRI1 wrote:
Remember the rallying cry of the right about the ACA being passed without anyone having read it? I heard tonight on the news that lo and behold the very same thing is happening here. In fact it was surmised there is not even a finished readable bill to read. Bizarre and frightening days ahead for the sick and weak. Also the poor and downtrodden.


Conservatives claimed they wanted a more transparent and accountable government. A vote is scheduled on a bill that affects 1/6 of the national economy for less than 12 hours from now, and the public hasn't even seen the bill text. I don't hear a lot of outrage from conservatives. Funny, that.
 
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Tugger
Posts: 11480
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Re: Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Thu May 04, 2017 4:17 am

Mir wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
Remember the rallying cry of the right about the ACA being passed without anyone having read it? I heard tonight on the news that lo and behold the very same thing is happening here. In fact it was surmised there is not even a finished readable bill to read. Bizarre and frightening days ahead for the sick and weak. Also the poor and downtrodden.


Conservatives claimed they wanted a more transparent and accountable government. A vote is scheduled on a bill that affects 1/6 of the national economy for less than 12 hours from now, and the public hasn't even seen the bill text. I don't hear a lot of outrage from conservatives. Funny, that.

It does appear to be disingenuous.

I suspect that the House Republicans are hoping/confident/counting on the Senate to, in fact, not pass this if it does pass the House. But for them they will no longer be the "impediment" nor the focus of populist Republican's ire and condemnation. I suspect that is what is driving at least some of this.

I really do not think the majority of Republican legislators truly want to take over responsibility for the nations future healthcare. The ACA,Obamacare, is and has been such an excellent and convenient target. Something upon which they have been able to heap so much of their and their supporter's condemnation upon. I really do not see how they can want to a.) give that up, and b.) bring the inevitable problems and failures (on some level in some way) upon themselves.

Quite frankly I am curious and actually want to see their solution "in the wild" and how it performs in the greater public at large. Again I suspect that the Republican legislator's really don't want to see what that effect is. Seriously all it can possibly do if and when enacted is cause a hue and cry from anyone it does benefit or improve the situation of.

Tugg
 
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seb146
Posts: 23956
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Obamacare Replacement: Strike Two!

Thu May 04, 2017 5:12 am

WarRI1 wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
Tugger wrote:
And here comes the wind up and pitch....

They say they have the votes!

To me the interesting thing will be if they do actually pass it. They need to pass something, is the best they can do and will it solve the problems and improve the lives of their constituents? Only time will tell.

Tugg

This is without the umpire (the CBO) having made its assessment of said bill.


Remember the rallying cry of the right about the ACA being passed without anyone having read it? I heard tonight on the news that lo and behold the very same thing is happening here. In fact it was surmised there is not even a finished readable bill to read. Bizarre and frightening days ahead for the sick and weak. Also the poor and downtrodden.


The backbone of a Christian nation! Let's show everyone how Christian we are by killing everyone off because they are poor because it is probably somewhere in the Bible.

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