DLFREEBIRD
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Fri May 05, 2017 4:45 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
I suppose the best way for Trump voters to finally realize how much of an incompetent, self-interested elitist retard they blindly voted for is for their very own hero to unleash his worst onto them. Too bad it'll cost many of them their medical coverage, life savings or even their life..


If this becomes law, it will be interesting to see if the move kills more GOP or democrat voters.

best regards
Thomas


i see what you did there. :) it will kill the poor in southern states you know the ones they already passed laws on to restrict their voting.

so i don't expect anything to change. The religious right will claim getting sick is part of god's plan.
Those who voted for Trump will still want Trump to make America great again.

and Obama legacy will be erased from our history books, making some people very happy. but, since they can't say that out loud.
they will claim we needed something new.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Fri May 05, 2017 7:24 pm

seb146 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
seb146 wrote:
When Nancy Pelosi said "let's just pass it and see what's in it" the howls and whines from the right of "we need to stop this NOW!" were completely overwhelming. The right didn't even finish writing this debacle and their followers are saying "let's just pass it and see what's in it."


I don't agree with either side on this, but as the saying goes, what's good for the goose....


How come when Democrats do something it is bad for America and we need to all stop it right this second but when Republicans do THE EXACT SAME THING the attitude is "oh, well. Whatcha gonna do?"


Because when we complained about the Democrats ramming the ACA down our collective throats without even reading the damn thing, we were told, "Oh well, whatcha gonna do?" by those on the left.

So again, what's good for the goose....
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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BobPatterson
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Fri May 05, 2017 7:28 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
QF29 wrote:
Since his election, he more or less spewed stupid comments like "everyone will be covered" that the GOP laughed off.


He wanted way better coverage at *much* lower premiums for *everyone*.

In short, there are only two options:

1. He Lied
2 he is too stupid

I'll go with one.

Best regards
Thomas


Why restrict yourself.

He is easily both a liar and stupid. Add immoral.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
LittleFokker
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Fri May 05, 2017 7:38 pm

EA CO AS wrote:

Because when we complained about the Democrats ramming the ACA down our collective throats without even reading the damn thing, we were told, "Oh well, whatcha gonna do?" by those on the left.

So again, what's good for the goose....


Ah, more of that revisionist history you love to practice. When the ACA was being crafted, Republicans were invited to be a part of the process, in fact, they vetoed many of the things the Democrats wanted to include in the bill, most notably, the public option for insurance. They spent almost a year to perfect it, worked it through multiple committees and had multiple public debate sessions about the law, waited patiently for the CBO to score it, then voted on it.

For the AHCA, they crammed it through in just a few weeks, ran it through zero committees and public debates, deliberately scheduled a vote before the CBO had a chance to score it, and also completely shut the door on any Democrats participating the crafting of the legislation.

But go ahead, keep that ignorance alive and pretend that Democrats are just as bad as Republicans - keep America stupid!
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
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Tugger
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Fri May 05, 2017 7:41 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
Because when we complained about the Democrats ramming the ACA down our collective throats without even reading the damn thing, we were told, "Oh well, whatcha gonna do?" by those on the left.

So again, what's good for the goose....

Or is it more likely that they are really no different than the Democrats? Same "moral flaws", same egos, same requirement to follow the party line.

The important thing is that going forward I am positive it will end the complaints they've made about the Democrats on these types of things.

Tugg
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BobPatterson
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Fri May 05, 2017 7:51 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
seb146 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:

I don't agree with either side on this, but as the saying goes, what's good for the goose....


How come when Democrats do something it is bad for America and we need to all stop it right this second but when Republicans do THE EXACT SAME THING the attitude is "oh, well. Whatcha gonna do?"


Because when we complained about the Democrats ramming the ACA down our collective throats without even reading the damn thing, we were told, "Oh well, whatcha gonna do?" by those on the left.

So again, what's good for the goose....


Two things (at least) are wrong with your goose......hypothesis.

First, when the ACA was enacted by party line vote, it was not the pig-in-the-poke that you imply. It had been subjected to numerous hearings, immense press coverage, and CBO costing. However, the totality of its effects could not be known with certainty until it was put into use. Such as how many of the then uninsured would sign up under one plan or another, how many would stay away from mandated coverage and pay penalties instead, the effect on actual medical costs and totality of government subsidies, etc.

Second, the ACA was an attempt to extend rational (not rationed) medical care to all Americans. There were many benefits to society as a whole as well as to the poorest among us.

The current Republican "plan" (it is not deserving of such a label, no national health plan can be devised in a few weeks) is, by contrast, a cruel attempt to deprive millions of American of health care and will shorten the lives of many.

Beyond that, the Republican action, if it ever becomes law, will be just one more reason for the United States to be viewed as the laughingstock of the world by all civilized and humane peoples.

The citizens of Cuba are treated better by their "government". We will be far worse than a "banana republic".

We will be deplorable. When was the last time you heard that word?
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
Ken777
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Fri May 05, 2017 9:32 pm

tommy1808 wrote:


1. He Lied
2 he is too stupid


Best regards
Thomas


Better yet, read George Will's exceptional column on Trump at:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... ab4aa41ebc

Before hitting on George Will too much you need to understand that he is one of the Conservatives most intelligent columnists. I used to say "GOP's most intelligent columnists" but he resigned from the GOP in disgust with Trump. He is still one of the leading Conservatives in the country and this column has gone wild on the internet.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Fri May 05, 2017 10:01 pm

George is an elitist from a bygone era, but so is Trump and he's president.
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Fri May 05, 2017 10:15 pm

Ken777 wrote:

Better yet, read George Will's exceptional column on Trump at:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... ab4aa41ebc

Before hitting on George Will too much you need to understand that he is one of the Conservatives most intelligent columnists. I used to say "GOP's most intelligent columnists" but he resigned from the GOP in disgust with Trump. He is still one of the leading Conservatives in the country and this column has gone wild on the internet.


Well.

I've read George Will for years (twice-weekly columns and books).

He is really a fine writer on professional baseball, although his national opening day columns are now no more than about baseball trivia.

As a political columnist he has two different diets on his menu.

One if fairly down-to-earth right-of-center commentary and criticism. Good stuff.

The second diet is so laced with egghead philosophy (his professional field) that he is oftentimes hard to follow, requires numerous readings to glean understanding with the aid of an unabridged dictionary.

It's too bad that he doesn't want to appeal to the mass of readers. He would sway many more minds with his rhetoric.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
jetwet1
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Fri May 05, 2017 10:22 pm

Tugger wrote:
The new interesting bit is that the Senate has decided they won't be saddled with this dump-and-run that the House just did and are going to write a new bill from scratch (essentially). I thought is was pretty hilarious that the House was singing “Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye!” when they finished voting as they sent what had been their problem to their Senate compatriots.

Hopefully the Senate will be more transparent, I suspect they will throw quite a few elements of the House bill back at the House to take responsibility for addressing. As I said the Republican's have little to gain from this (nothing? and actually more to lose) if it is not done essentially perfectly. And I already provided what I think a good starting point would be.


Tugg


Well, the AARP just decided to throw it's weight against the bill, urging it's members to reach out to their representatives to voice their displeasure over the bill and as we know, one thing that will always scare a politician is the AARP going after them, I can't see the senate passing this bill.
 
Hillis
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Fri May 05, 2017 10:45 pm

LMP737 wrote:
Tugger wrote:

I really do not think the majority of Republican legislators truly want to take over responsibility for the nation's future healthcare. The ACA, Obamacare, is and has been such an excellent and convenient target. Something upon which they have been able to heap so much of their and their supporter's condemnation upon. I really do not see how they can want to a.) give that up, and b.) bring the inevitable problems and failures (on some level in some way) upon themselves.


Maybe they don't want responsibility for the nation's future healthcare. IMO though here's what they want. Dismantling anything Obama did in his eight years is the name of the game now. Former Senator George Voinovich admitted as much when he said that if Obama was for something they had to be against it. Even if it was good for the country. This is just a continuation of that mindset.


BINGO. You win the prize. But I'll also add that the Republicans really, truly enjoy being vindictive to the poor, the middle class and women. They absolutely take glee in the suffering of those they do not like. You can witness that in these "Religious Freedom" acts; in the "Bathroom Bills"; in the fight over abortion and who gets to control a woman's body; in trying to strip away voting rights. They don't care if those people live or die, let alone get a fair shake in this country.


mbmbos wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
...and democrats don't operate the same way? Give me a break.


Nice deflection.

Have the Democrats declared war on any Republican President, vowing to sabotage any and all attempts to govern? It is painfully obvious the Republican Party doesn't know how to govern, only how to win. It's so shallow and short-sided. And it does a terrible discredit to U.S. citizens.


We have another winner!
 
330west
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Fri May 05, 2017 11:26 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
The second diet is so laced with egghead philosophy (his professional field) that he is oftentimes hard to follow, requires numerous readings to glean understanding with the aid of an unabridged dictionary.

It's too bad that he doesn't want to appeal to the mass of readers. He would sway many more minds with his rhetoric.


There's only so far one can dumb oneself down. How does one write for a demographic that outwardly embraces ignorance and disinformation?
Always fly first class, otherwise your heirs will.
 
apodino
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Fri May 05, 2017 11:49 pm

I am going to say this much. Over half the counties in Iowa don't even have access to the Exchanges since all the insurers pulled out. In many other locations, people only have one option, and because of the way the law is set up, all the Insurance companies on these exchanges have to do is give their CEOs and VPs massive payraises, and then they can pass that cost along, and since its compensation, it meets the profit threshold. Translation: They can gouge consumers and the government. And its accelerated since the ACA went into effect. Its clear to me that if nothing is done soon, a lot of americans are going to be without health care coverage even with the ACA still on the books. I am at least glad that people in congress recognize this and are trying to do something about it.

That being said, there are things I do like about the bill.

1. Preexisting conditions are protected.
2. Thanks to a separate bill, this bill will affect congress the same as it does you and me, despite misinformation otherwise.
3. The High Risk pool is a good start, and short of a single payer system, I think it really is one of the better ways to deal with certain things.

Things I don't like

1. The republicans throwing a victory party at the White House. Give me a break. This is the equivilant of the Cleveland Browns actually scoring a Touchdown.
2. That this was rammed through without a CBO score. The republicans passed this bill in the same way they criticized Nancy Pelosi for passing legislation. Its why we are all fed up with Washington.
3. That Age drives the tax credits and not income. If a 70 year old guy is wealthy and a 25 year old guy is fresh out of college and doesn't have his life started yet, why does the 70 year old get more tax credit than the 25 year old? Makes no sense to me.
4. The States opt out clause. I get the theory behind it, which makes sense, but I also know the difference between theoretical and practical, and the way I think this would actually play out would be awful.

Now is this bill the best way to go about it? I am not convinced of that. Without the CBO score, its hard to know what to make (I don't like republicans ramming this through without it) of the bill. But I do know one thing. The Senate is more hawkish than the House, and I hope and pray that the bill the senate passes is truly an improvement over the ACA. It sounds like there are Democrats in the Senate who are open to helping out. I hope Trump and McConnell actually listen to them and take their suggestions as well. But I am not celebrating the passage of this bill, nor am I upset it passed either. I am not going to truly have a reaction until a bill is sent to Trumps desk.
 
jetwet1
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Sat May 06, 2017 7:09 am

apodino wrote:

That being said, there are things I do like about the bill.

1. Preexisting conditions are protected.


While being strictly true, people with pre-existing conditions will be treated in a different manner for obtaining health insurance, instead of being in the same pool as everyone else, they will be split into a high risk pool, now, while specifics are not known, I will bet a sizeable amount of money that the high risk pool will have far higher premiums, thus making it out of reach for those who need it most.
 
tommy1808
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Sat May 06, 2017 7:25 am

jetwet1 wrote:
, I will bet a sizeable amount of money that the high risk pool will have far higher premiums, thus making it out of reach for those who need it most.


That high risk pool will be 600 billion or so short of having enough cash in it.
The GOP literally took money from the sick and gave it to the rich, willing to kill people to hold on to their power base. In a sense the GOP moved down to the level of Assad.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Sat May 06, 2017 7:33 am

BobPatterson wrote:
Ken777 wrote:

Better yet, read George Will's exceptional column on Trump at:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... ab4aa41ebc

Before hitting on George Will too much you need to understand that he is one of the Conservatives most intelligent columnists. I used to say "GOP's most intelligent columnists" but he resigned from the GOP in disgust with Trump. He is still one of the leading Conservatives in the country and this column has gone wild on the internet.


Well.

I've read George Will for years (twice-weekly columns and books).

He is really a fine writer on professional baseball, although his national opening day columns are now no more than about baseball trivia.

As a political columnist he has two different diets on his menu.

One if fairly down-to-earth right-of-center commentary and criticism. Good stuff.

The second diet is so laced with egghead philosophy (his professional field) that he is oftentimes hard to follow, requires numerous readings to glean understanding with the aid of an unabridged dictionary.

It's too bad that he doesn't want to appeal to the mass of readers. He would sway many more minds with his rhetoric.


i think you have that backwards, snobs generally want nothing to do with the masses and visa versa.
 
LMP737
Posts: 5902
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Sat May 06, 2017 4:24 pm

Hillis wrote:
BINGO. You win the prize. But I'll also add that the Republicans really, truly enjoy being vindictive to the poor, the middle class and women. They absolutely take glee in the suffering of those they do not like. You can witness that in these "Religious Freedom" acts; in the "Bathroom Bills"; in the fight over abortion and who gets to control a woman's body; in trying to strip away voting rights. They don't care if those people live or die, let alone get a fair shake in this country.


The problem is a lot of those people will still vote republican. Why, because they agree with them on the all important three "g's".
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
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seb146
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Sat May 06, 2017 4:24 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
seb146 wrote:

How come when Democrats do something it is bad for America and we need to all stop it right this second but when Republicans do THE EXACT SAME THING the attitude is "oh, well. Whatcha gonna do?"


Because when we complained about the Democrats ramming the ACA down our collective throats without even reading the damn thing, we were told, "Oh well, whatcha gonna do?" by those on the left.

So again, what's good for the goose....


Two things (at least) are wrong with your goose......hypothesis.

First, when the ACA was enacted by party line vote, it was not the pig-in-the-poke that you imply. It had been subjected to numerous hearings, immense press coverage, and CBO costing. However, the totality of its effects could not be known with certainty until it was put into use. Such as how many of the then uninsured would sign up under one plan or another, how many would stay away from mandated coverage and pay penalties instead, the effect on actual medical costs and totality of government subsidies, etc.

Second, the ACA was an attempt to extend rational (not rationed) medical care to all Americans. There were many benefits to society as a whole as well as to the poorest among us.

The current Republican "plan" (it is not deserving of such a label, no national health plan can be devised in a few weeks) is, by contrast, a cruel attempt to deprive millions of American of health care and will shorten the lives of many.

Beyond that, the Republican action, if it ever becomes law, will be just one more reason for the United States to be viewed as the laughingstock of the world by all civilized and humane peoples.

The citizens of Cuba are treated better by their "government". We will be far worse than a "banana republic".

We will be deplorable. When was the last time you heard that word?


The only thing these two bills have in common is they were voted on across party lines. Everyone was horrified that happened before and ecstatic it happened this time.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Ken777
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Sat May 06, 2017 8:35 pm

apodino wrote:
I am going to say this much. Over half the counties in Iowa don't even have access to the Exchanges since all the insurers pulled out. In many other locations, people only have one option, and because of the way the law is set up, all the Insurance companies on these exchanges have to do is give their CEOs and VPs massive payraises, and then they can pass that cost along, and since its compensation, it meets the profit threshold. Translation: They can gouge consumers and the government. And its accelerated since the ACA went into effect. Its clear to me that if nothing is done soon, a lot of americans are going to be without health care coverage even with the ACA still on the books. I am at least glad that people in congress recognize this and are trying to do something about it.


Now is this bill the best way to go about it? I am not convinced of that. Without the CBO score, its hard to know what to make (I don't like republicans ramming this through without it) of the bill. But I do know one thing. The Senate is more hawkish than the House, and I hope and pray that the bill the senate passes is truly an improvement over the ACA. It sounds like there are Democrats in the Senate who are open to helping out. I hope Trump and McConnell actually listen to them and take their suggestions as well. But I am not celebrating the passage of this bill, nor am I upset it passed either. I am not going to truly have a reaction until a bill is sent to Trumps desk.


I believe that the insurance companies are playing games in order to get the GOP to do their bidding. Trump wants close to a trillion dollars for tax cuts and the insurance companies want more profits.

What better way for both to get what they want than to throw the public into a panic with excessive rate increases and pulling out of counties or states. The ironic thing is that the loss of a public option when the ACA was written has supported the pressure we are seeing from insurance companies. Conservatives will never acknowledge that the market place would have served the nation far better IF the ACA included a public option to compete.

In terms of what the GOP in the Senate will do, I don't believe you will see any improvements. The CBO will continue to be a slap in the face for the GOP and, like Trump. they really won't care. Until you see realistic efforts to eliminate cost shifting you will still need to get your checkbook out to pay those unnecessary premium increases. That, unfortunately, is basic arithmetic.
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Sat May 06, 2017 8:48 pm

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
The second diet is so laced with egghead philosophy (his professional field) that he is oftentimes hard to follow, requires numerous readings to glean understanding with the aid of an unabridged dictionary.

It's too bad that he doesn't want to appeal to the mass of readers. He would sway many more minds with his rhetoric.


i think you have that backwards, snobs generally want nothing to do with the masses and visa versa.


George Will is not, IMHO, a snob. Academic egghead at times, yes, snob, no.

It is possible to be both an egghead and a snob. Think of William F. Buckley, Jr., not George Will.

Mr. Will is a very warm, friendly human being. Many of his columns and some of his books reveal him as such.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Sat May 06, 2017 8:50 pm

seb146 wrote:
The only thing these two bills have in common is they were voted on across party lines. Everyone was horrified that happened before and ecstatic it happened this time.


Everyone?
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Sun May 07, 2017 3:19 am

apodino wrote:
2. Thanks to a separate bill, this bill will affect congress the same as it does you and me, despite misinformation otherwise.

And when will that separate bill be introduced? Or will it wait 8 years in the making before coming down?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
tommy1808
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Sun May 07, 2017 6:50 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
apodino wrote:
2. Thanks to a separate bill, this bill will affect congress the same as it does you and me, despite misinformation otherwise.

And when will that separate bill be introduced? Or will it wait 8 years in the making before coming down?


And why not pass it at tte same time... maybe, since it concerns them, they want to read it first.

How can a law even be considered law if voted on without public reading and discussion is beyond me, must be some of those things the founding fathers overlooked in their, understandable, naivety...

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
Hillis
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Sun May 07, 2017 4:08 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
seb146 wrote:
The only thing these two bills have in common is they were voted on across party lines. Everyone was horrified that happened before and ecstatic it happened this time.


Everyone?


Well, intelligent people were, which seems like you're excluded.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Sun May 07, 2017 4:27 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
DLFREEBIRD wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
The second diet is so laced with egghead philosophy (his professional field) that he is oftentimes hard to follow, requires numerous readings to glean understanding with the aid of an unabridged dictionary.

It's too bad that he doesn't want to appeal to the mass of readers. He would sway many more minds with his rhetoric.


i think you have that backwards, snobs generally want nothing to do with the masses and visa versa.


George Will is not, IMHO, a snob. Academic egghead at times, yes, snob, no.

It is possible to be both an egghead and a snob. Think of William F. Buckley, Jr., not George Will.

Mr. Will is a very warm, friendly human being. Many of his columns and some of his books reveal him as such.


When he talks about baseball, and his son he almost human. However, those who read his political pieces, for the most part think he's a elitist snob posing as a egghead. Most people have to look up his big words, hence my point.

Please explain to me how his latest piece is profound?

... the problem isn’t that he does not know this or that, or that he does not know that he does not know this or that. Rather, the dangerous thing is that he does not know what it is to know something.
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Sun May 07, 2017 6:55 pm

DLFREEBIRD wrote:

When he talks about baseball, and his son he almost human.

Rather, the dangerous thing is that he does not know what it is to know something.


In those two sentences you disqualify yourself from sitting on a jury.

"Almost human" implies "less than human."

Well.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
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11725Flyer
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Sun May 07, 2017 7:49 pm

casinterest wrote:
Let's see how excited everyone is when the CBO releases it's report on it, and everyone actually has time to "read" what is in the bill.

I still suspect the Senate will veto this bill.


Nitpicking here, but the Senate doesn't veto a bill. It has to pass with 60 votes under the current rules. That means the Republicans will have to hold together with 52 votes, then gain another 8 from Democrats or Independents. If not, it fails. (Unless the Republicans change the rules to a simple majority, as they did with Trump's Supreme Court nominee.)

The only person that can veto a bill is the president, who can use a regular or pocket veto.

In any case, it will be interesting what the Senate does with the bill.
 
Ken777
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Sun May 07, 2017 8:49 pm

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
Please explain to me how his latest piece is profound?

... the problem isn’t that he does not know this or that, or that he does not know that he does not know this or that. Rather, the dangerous thing is that he does not know what it is to know something.


The importance of this piece is the degree that it has hit a nerve in the country. Bouncing around the internet and covered on news. Now there are a lot of others that have questioned Trump's intellectual abilities buy Will is one of the most senior Conservatives.

That last quote is the most important for me. Trump knows what it is to be a bully, or to sue people as easily as he grabs women's privates. But he is most ignorant of how this government works or how the US should be fitting in a dangerous world.

All he knows is that he wants to cut all taxes that might come his way, including estate taxes. That he has to take almost a Trillion Dollars from health care in this country is totally unimportant to him.
 
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casinterest
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Mon May 08, 2017 1:56 pm

11725Flyer wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Let's see how excited everyone is when the CBO releases it's report on it, and everyone actually has time to "read" what is in the bill.

I still suspect the Senate will veto this bill.


Nitpicking here, but the Senate doesn't veto a bill. It has to pass with 60 votes under the current rules. That means the Republicans will have to hold together with 52 votes, then gain another 8 from Democrats or Independents. If not, it fails. (Unless the Republicans change the rules to a simple majority, as they did with Trump's Supreme Court nominee.)

The only person that can veto a bill is the president, who can use a regular or pocket veto.

In any case, it will be interesting what the Senate does with the bill.



You are correct to nitpick this as you are correct. The Senate has to pass this bill with our without amendments, and then go to reconciliation for any differences with the house. I still expect issues with the bill as it is taken up,Over the weekend, there hasn't been a lot of cheering for any thing in this bill. There is nothing to lower health care costs, and in a lot of cases it will increase them for many people not at the top of the earnings chain.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1539
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Mon May 08, 2017 4:55 pm

casinterest wrote:
11725Flyer wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Let's see how excited everyone is when the CBO releases it's report on it, and everyone actually has time to "read" what is in the bill.

I still suspect the Senate will veto this bill.


Nitpicking here, but the Senate doesn't veto a bill. It has to pass with 60 votes under the current rules. That means the Republicans will have to hold together with 52 votes, then gain another 8 from Democrats or Independents. If not, it fails. (Unless the Republicans change the rules to a simple majority, as they did with Trump's Supreme Court nominee.)

The only person that can veto a bill is the president, who can use a regular or pocket veto.

In any case, it will be interesting what the Senate does with the bill.



You are correct to nitpick this as you are correct. The Senate has to pass this bill with our without amendments, and then go to reconciliation for any differences with the house. I still expect issues with the bill as it is taken up,Over the weekend, there hasn't been a lot of cheering for any thing in this bill. There is nothing to lower health care costs, and in a lot of cases it will increase them for many people not at the top of the earnings chain.
I believe they are trying to pass this through reconciliation, which requires only 50 votes in the Senate (plus the VP tie breaker). There is no way they are getting 60.

I wish they would just get together and try and fix some of the things in Obamacare. I have a feeling that some sensible reforms could be very beneficial and pass both chambers of congress rather easily with bipartisan support. Of course, this would anger the far left and far right of each party and since these are the people most likely to vote in primaries, it will never happen.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
apodino
Posts: 3581
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Tue May 09, 2017 4:15 pm

Keep an eye on California in the coming weeks. They are debating a bill that would establish single payer health care in the state. Whether or not it passes we shall see. One thing about this debate I will point out is Dianne Feinstein has come out against the bill. It has also come out that this opposition is after taking campaign money from insurance companies and being influenced by lobbying from a firm representing the insurance companies that is run by former Senate Democratic Leader Tom Daschle.

If this passes, I would keep a close eye on California to see how this law is implemented and how well it works. If it works well, the momentum will clearly be there for similar systems in other states. If it flops, who knows what will happen.
 
Ken777
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Tue May 09, 2017 7:56 pm

cledaybuck"


I believe they are trying to pass this through reconciliation, which requires only 50 votes in the Senate (plus the VP tie breaker). There is no way they are getting 60.
[/quote]

The sad part about that is neither party looks to be working together towards a rational law that addresses the needs of the country.

[quote="apodino wrote:
Keep an eye on California in the coming weeks. They are debating a bill that would establish single payer health care in the state. Whether or not it passes we shall see.

If this passes, I would keep a close eye on California to see how this law is implemented and how well it works. If it works well, the momentum will clearly be there for similar systems in other states. If it flops, who knows what will happen.


IMO single payer only works when it is compatible with private insurance. Basically that makes "single payer" a overall Medicaid for everyone based on employee & business contributions, with private insurance both available and encouraged.

That approach allows for dramatic drops in premiums as well as dramatic improvements in health care. On the latter issue the Washington Post had an article yesterday about the US having a 20 year difference in life expectancy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to- ... 609b025258

The idea of that discrepancy should scare the hell out of us because the health issues that cause the lower life spans can migrate to the more affluent areas.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Wed May 10, 2017 2:45 am

Once again, people will wait for hours and hours in hospital emergency rooms, accident victims and the poor and uninsured. The uninsured will once again strain the local fire departments rescue squads and personal. We will step back years. Emergency rooms will once again become the only source of medical help for the victims of the Republicans. :shakehead: :shakehead:
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 9338
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Wed May 24, 2017 9:11 pm

And the CBO reveals that the House Health care bill really is just another pile of crap.

http://www.npr.org/2017/05/24/529902300 ... -uninsured

"The revised Republican bill to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act will leave 23 million more people uninsured over the next decade than if that act, also known as Obamacare, were to remain in place. The GOP bill would also reduce the deficit by $119 billion."

So nothing better than Obamacare, and it surely doesn't deliver on Trump's promise to make healthcare available for all. The house GOP just wasted time on a big bill of FAIL.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
910A
Posts: 1797
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:11 am

Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Wed May 24, 2017 11:06 pm

casinterest wrote:
And the CBO reveals that the House Health care bill really is just another pile of crap.

http://www.npr.org/2017/05/24/529902300 ... -uninsured

"The revised Republican bill to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act will leave 23 million more people uninsured over the next decade than if that act, also known as Obamacare, were to remain in place. The GOP bill would also reduce the deficit by $119 billion."

So nothing better than Obamacare, and it surely doesn't deliver on Trump's promise to make healthcare available for all. The house GOP just wasted time on a big bill of FAIL.


Actually, since the current expects 28 million people to be uninsured in 2026 the real total is 51 million Americans without health insurance by 2026.

Republicans said their bill will make health insurance cheaper. Except, they'll have to figure out a way to explain why, under Obamacare, 64-year-olds making $26,500 a year are on track to pay $1,700 in annual premiums in 2026. And under the GOP bill, they would pay anywhere between $13,600 to $16,100.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... 03d7644dfd

That's a 850% increase in premiums for pre medicare individuals in their late 50's and early 60's.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Wed May 24, 2017 11:22 pm

You guys are all missing the point the GOP made, which is that they want everyone to have access to affordable healthcare, much in the same way as I have access to a Mercedes-Benz. Whether I can actually buy one is a different matter entirely.

Just wait...you'll find a few who will say "they never promised affordable healthcare, just access to it. You want it? Work for it! Premium increased? That's the free market. We can't control that."
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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Aesma
Posts: 11849
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Thu May 25, 2017 12:06 am

Affordable Mercedes are a thing though, Mercedes really made cheaper cars to cater to more people. Here I haven't heard of things being cheaper.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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einsteinboricua
Posts: 7608
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Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Thu May 25, 2017 12:48 am

Aesma wrote:
Affordable Mercedes are a thing though

For $32,700 (the cheapest price a new Mercedes is sold for in the US, not counting taxes and interest on the loan, per the US website), I'd rather get an SUV. It can withstand more abuse and will have higher clearance and more space.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
kellyon
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:17 am

Re: House Passes Health Care Law

Fri May 26, 2017 10:33 am

Nowadays there are so much important issues in the healthcare sector such as voidable harm to patients, lack of transparency and the proper management of medical equipment. My sister works at the hospital and she told me that they had to order Ultrasound Machine GE Logiq E at https://bimedis.com/search/search-items/medical-imaging-equipment-ultrasound from Japan at affordable price 'coz lack of trust prevails at all levels of the healthcare system but it's still necessary to buy medical equipment from well-known and reliable companies.

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