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BobPatterson
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:35 am

Dutchy wrote:
And last, that is very funny, I don't hate anybody and I don't hate the US.

Yes, I am angry at this person whom happens to be president because in a real sense he is putting my country in real danger, he is putting the lives at risk of 100millions of people at risk, and (but that is up to you) puts America at a disadvantage. I am angry at the people who let him do this. (my emphasis)

But Bob, I don't know how old you are, but remember the stand you take here, and think about it in 20 years time.


I doubt that you recognize the depth of your anger, and that it really does amount to hatred.

I'm 79. I suspect hat I have been a conservationist/environmentalist since before you were born. No matter.

The end of the world has not come about. Mr. Trump's actions do not (yet) imperil you or Europe.

You might be imperiled by lack of effective defense by European nations. Don't worry, the USA will come to your rescue once again.

Mr. Trump is a temporary aberration in America. The adverse actions that he can get away with for the moment will be reversed within a few years at most.

Do yourself some good. Spend time working at improving things in Europe. You are merely wasting your time ranting about Mr. Trump on-line.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:52 am

Varsity1 wrote:
Given enough time we'll find it in Germany and France too.


Bla bla bla...

Article 20.4: (4) All Germans shall have the right to resist any person seeking to abolish this constitutional order, if no other remedy is available.

Different from any other nation, we have the right to kill anyone trying to written in our constutition.

On top of that it is nonsense. The whole out breeding topic is just disgusting rasism, by the 3rd generation their birth rates are the same then natives.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
Mortyman
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:08 am

The President says he was ellected to represent the People of Pitttsburgh and the interests of the People there ... No, Mr. President you were ellected to represent the American People as a Whole and the majority seems to think you are wrong. Furthermore the state in wich Pittsburgh is situated , Pennsylvania was won by Hillary Clinton ....
 
FTMCPIUS
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:27 am

Mortyman wrote:
The President says he was ellected to represent the People of Pitttsburgh and the interests of the People there ... No, Mr. President you were ellected to represent the American People as a Whole and the majority seems to think you are wrong. Furthermore the state in wich Pittsburgh is situated , Pennsylvania was won by Hillary Clinton ....

Pennsylvania was won by Trump. Do you think climatologists can pinpoint even a decade in the history of the earth when the climate hasn't changed?
 
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mercure1
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:33 am

Mortyman wrote:
The President says he was ellected to represent the People of Pitttsburgh and the interests of the People there ... No, Mr. President you were ellected to represent the American People as a Whole and the majority seems to think you are wrong. Furthermore the state in wich Pittsburgh is situated , Pennsylvania was won by Hillary Clinton ....


Lets remember, Paris accord was never ratified by the representatives of the American people - the Senate. President Obama in his haste to get any deal agreed to something that he knew would never pass Congressional vote, and hence never submitted to Congress to get it ratified !
mercure f-wtcc
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:04 am

FTMCPIUS wrote:
Pennsylvania was won by Trump


Hillary Clinton won Pittsburgh with 80 percent of the vote.

Do you think climatologists can pinpoint even a decade in the history of the earth when the climate hasn't changed?


Nope. Of course not, the climate has always changes over geological time scale. They have however no problem pinpointing decades where the climate didn't change at the 1000-fold speed up it does now: just about every single decade before industrialisation began.
Those climate changes that went kinda fast, still orders of magnitude slower than today, usually let to the extinction of all or most higher life forms.

Image

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
Varsity1
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:15 am

tommy1808 wrote:
FTMCPIUS wrote:
Pennsylvania was won by Trump


Hillary Clinton won Pittsburgh with 80 percent of the vote.



???

Pittsburgh isn't a presidential electorate. It belongs to Pennsylvania which was won by Trump.

We're out man, go complain to China and India about climate change. Don't forget to write them big checks while you're there.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:21 am

Varsity1 wrote:
???

Pittsburgh isn't a presidential electorate. It belongs to Pennsylvania which was won by Trump.


Your president said the people of Pittsburg. Ok, we are taking about someone that doesn't even know where Israel is, but he didn't say Pensylvania.

We're out man, go complain to China and India about climate change. Don't forget to write them big checks while you're there.


I'd expect sanctions against the US within a decade. But of course sane people will be in charge again long before that.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
Varsity1
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:32 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
???

Pittsburgh isn't a presidential electorate. It belongs to Pennsylvania which was won by Trump.


Your president said the people of Pittsburg. Ok, we are taking about someone that doesn't even know where Israel is, but he didn't say Pensylvania.

We're out man, go complain to China and India about climate change. Don't forget to write them big checks while you're there.


I'd expect sanctions against the US within a decade. But of course sane people will be in charge again long before that.

Best regards
Thomas


Lead the free world with those sanctions man. I'm sure countries all over the world will be lining up to implement them. :lol:

Why is everyone in the world so concerned about every little move the USA makes? First we don't matter, then we're everyones first concern. Move along, do the climate agreement amongst yourselves. We're a big ocean away.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:40 am

Even if the City of Pittsburgh heavily favored the democrat in the presidential election - as it has for the past 60 years - it does not make President Trump's statement less true. "I was elected to represent the citizens of Pittsburgh, not Paris." Totally correct statement whether 80% of the poor souls in Pittsburgh like it or not. Just like Obama represented Texas, not Toronto when he was president.

As an aside, the Pittsburgh city limits are tiny in terms of geographical area (only ~50 sq miles). The vast majority of the metro Pittsburgh precincts favored Trump, as did the State of PA.
FLYi
 
Varsity1
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:44 am

Pittsburgh has spoken.
 
Mir
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:12 am

Pyrex wrote:
How can Trump withdraw the U.S. from something it was never a part of to begin with? The Paris agreement was never ratified by a 2/3 majority of the U.S. Senate, it was as legally binding as Obama's toilet paper - I understand Obamabots think the word of their god-emperor is law, but that is not how things work in the U.S.


It's not a treaty. It doesn't need Senate ratification.
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:37 am

Mir wrote:
It's not a treaty. It doesn't need Senate ratification.


That's precisely what's wrong with it. It was a kind of sneaky agreement between then-President Obama and much of the rest of the world, and it was crafted (craftily) so as to avoid the need for approval by the United States Senate.

Even if the terms of the agreement are reasonable (almost all are, I think) it is still not the kind of document that binds the American people.

Some countries, particularly in Europe, are happy to give away their sovereignty to one-world bureaucrats and one-world courts.

Good luck to them on that. Americans may be foolish (we have Mr. Trump, after all) but we are not that foolish.

Renegotiate the Paris Agreement as a bona fide treaty and let's talk about that.

SALTTEE: Here you go. I back President Trump on this one. That's a total of two so far.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:50 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Those climate changes that went kinda fast, still orders of magnitude slower than today, usually let to the extinction of all or most higher life forms.


That's a fantastic graphic Tommy. Who deserves credit for it?
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:01 am

keesje wrote:
Image
797 AF1

That is a good argument for the decision.
 
socalgeo
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:07 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
???

Pittsburgh isn't a presidential electorate. It belongs to Pennsylvania which was won by Trump.


Your president said the people of Pittsburg. Ok, we are taking about someone that doesn't even know where Israel is, but he didn't say Pensylvania.

We're out man, go complain to China and India about climate change. Don't forget to write them big checks while you're there.


I'd expect sanctions against the US within a decade. But of course sane people will be in charge again long before that.

Best regards
Thomas


Interesting thought - Sanctions on the US from the rest of the world. What do you think would be the effects of this? Imagine what will happen when the US can no longer afford to keep the world afloat with our massive deficits and loose monetary policy. What will happen when the US consumer stops buying all of the crap they make in China and nice cars from Germany and Japan? Will Airbus replace the 40% of every airplane they make with Chinese or Russian parts instead of US parts? Good luck with that...

How long until the global economy completely collapses? 1 year? 5 years?

Perhaps this is actually what you desire. There will certainly be less carbon emissions when the decade long global depression commences.

I think that what President Trump knows is that Europe, China, and India will fare much worse than the US when the coming trade war starts. China must grow at a 10% rate just to keep the people from overthrowing the government. Europe is a fiscal basket case - Germany will be bled dry by Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy, and all the others that are unable to manage their own finances. India - I like India a lot, but they are surrounded by enemies, and need the US.

Canada, Australia, Japan, South Korea, and many others, may despise the US, but they need us both economically and for defense just to survive. Whats really ironic is that this was the basic point that President Trump made to NATO last week - Start paying up for your own defense. Because we aren't going to be there for you if you fuck with us.

I'm sure that the Euros were proud of their leaders today when they announced that there would be no renegotiation. Too bad it was meaningless.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:22 am

Stxy has a take on what it would Really take to Save the Planet.... And ohh... THE TRUTH Hurts Baby !!!

https://youtu.be/QOFhpoDY0As
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
Mir
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:45 am

BobPatterson wrote:
Mir wrote:
It's not a treaty. It doesn't need Senate ratification.


That's precisely what's wrong with it. It was a kind of sneaky agreement between then-President Obama and much of the rest of the world, and it was crafted (craftily) so as to avoid the need for approval by the United States Senate.

Even if the terms of the agreement are reasonable (almost all are, I think) it is still not the kind of document that binds the American people.

Some countries, particularly in Europe, are happy to give away their sovereignty to one-world bureaucrats and one-world courts.

Good luck to them on that. Americans may be foolish (we have Mr. Trump, after all) but we are not that foolish.

Renegotiate the Paris Agreement as a bona fide treaty and let's talk about that.

SALTTEE: Here you go. I back President Trump on this one. That's a total of two so far.


Nobody's giving up any sovereignty. The only real thing that a country has to do under the agreement is set some targets for improvement and report from time to time on how they're doing, plus some additional record-keeping on the side. That's an incredibly small price to pay for keeping a seat at the table when it comes to international agreements on a growth industry that will provide a lot of jobs and a lot of wealth down the road. We should want a seat at that table.
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
AAPilot
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:52 am

ER757 wrote:
Elon Musk isn't too pleased
http://money.cnn.com/2017/06/01/news/el ... index.html

I think many other leaders of industry will follow suit - not that Trump will care, he'll just find some lackey yes-man to take Musk's place while sending out a tweet storm about what a sad loser Musk is.
Laughing stock does not begin to describe how this moron Trump is viewed by most of the people on Earth.


He can take his hair plugs and self inflated ego away. We will see how long his "businesses" last without subsidies.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:26 am

BobPatterson wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Those climate changes that went kinda fast, still orders of magnitude slower than today, usually let to the extinction of all or most higher life forms.


That's a fantastic graphic Tommy. Who deserves credit for it?


Uops... for once xkcd.com doesn't have the logo on it.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
CaliAtenza
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:37 am

Varsity1 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
FTMCPIUS wrote:
Pennsylvania was won by Trump


Hillary Clinton won Pittsburgh with 80 percent of the vote.



???

Pittsburgh isn't a presidential electorate. It belongs to Pennsylvania which was won by Trump.

We're out man, go complain to China and India about climate change. Don't forget to write them big checks while you're there.


The agreement was non-binding; we weren't writing them any big checks. We could have sold them green energy technology though, but I guess that's not happening.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:47 am

Why all the disbelief over a businessman saying, "We're backing out of this deal, as the terms are unacceptable," while also saying he's willing to consider a new deal that is more fair, rather than being completely one-sided, as the Paris Climate Accord is/was?

As was said earlier, renegotiate terms to be equitable, make it a treaty to be ratified by the Senate, and see where we go from there.

Reasonable people can come to mutually-beneficial agreements, but it's unrealistic to expect the American people to just accept what was handed to them by the former president without being voted upon by their representatives in Congress.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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keesje
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:59 am

Trump is damaging the US image. Other countries, even moderate ones are starting to turn their backs at him. US " elites" / rationals from both political parties are starting to get irritated. This is starting to hurt US interest. His voters are closing their eyes / keeping quiet. The Quality drop after Obama is too large.

Image
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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Aesma
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:01 am

Varsity1 wrote:
Lead the free world with those sanctions man. I'm sure countries all over the world will be lining up to implement them. :lol:

Why is everyone in the world so concerned about every little move the USA makes? First we don't matter, then we're everyones first concern. Move along, do the climate agreement among yourselves. We're a big ocean away.


192 countries signed the agreement. Who are you leading, again ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Aesma
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:11 am

EA CO AS wrote:
Why all the disbelief over a businessman saying, "We're backing out of this deal, as the terms are unacceptable," while also saying he's willing to consider a new deal that is more fair, rather than being completely one-sided, as the Paris Climate Accord is/was?

As was said earlier, renegotiate terms to be equitable, make it a treaty to be ratified by the Senate, and see where we go from there.

Reasonable people can come to mutually-beneficial agreements, but it's unrealistic to expect the American people to just accept what was handed to them by the former president without being voted upon by their representatives in Congress.


There is nothing to negotiate with people that are either removed from reality, lying, or too stupid to even understand.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:22 am

EA CO AS wrote:
Why all the disbelief over a businessman saying, "We're backing out of this deal, as the terms are unacceptable,"

Hmm, maybe I am a lousy businessman (actually I was a lousy businessman...) but I thought you think about the terms and negotiate them if they are unacceptable BEFORE you sign.
 
PanHAM
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:28 am

There's no reason to re-negotiate anything. Assembling a new agendafor 168 countries takes Longer than a Presidents legislature. Espeally when the single Country that requests such a re-negotiation has foreseeable negotiating techniques. which can be sumed up to: "we take everything, you get nothing".

There is indeed no Need to sit down at the tables again when only the fly-over states back Trump.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
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mad99
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:37 am

Well that's unfortunate. I think the US will have short term gains by this but in the long run they will loose out.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:41 am

N14AZ wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Why all the disbelief over a businessman saying, "We're backing out of this deal, as the terms are unacceptable,"

Hmm, maybe I am a lousy businessman (actually I was a lousy businessman...) but I thought you think about the terms and negotiate them if they are unacceptable BEFORE you sign.

Perhaps you missed the part where the one who agreed to the terms is different from the one who is in charge now?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:48 am

Aesma wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Why all the disbelief over a businessman saying, "We're backing out of this deal, as the terms are unacceptable," while also saying he's willing to consider a new deal that is more fair, rather than being completely one-sided, as the Paris Climate Accord is/was?

As was said earlier, renegotiate terms to be equitable, make it a treaty to be ratified by the Senate, and see where we go from there.

Reasonable people can come to mutually-beneficial agreements, but it's unrealistic to expect the American people to just accept what was handed to them by the former president without being voted upon by their representatives in Congress.


There is nothing to negotiate with people that are either removed from reality, lying, or too stupid to even understand.



I see. So in your estimation, someone not wanting to be part of a deal that requires vastly disparate levels of participation that benefit others at their expense is somehow lying, stupid, or removed from reality?

It doesn't sound like you're interested in a deal that all can live with, but are solely fixed on having things your way instead.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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Aesma
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:04 am

The GOP stance is that global warming isn't caused by humans. They will not accept any agreement since they don't accept the reason for it.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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sebolino
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:05 am

An historical mistake which will be remembered. The US will be left behind on renewable energy business by China and the EU.
Even oil companies have now understood that.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:13 am

BobPatterson wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
And last, that is very funny, I don't hate anybody and I don't hate the US.

Yes, I am angry at this person whom happens to be president because in a real sense he is putting my country in real danger, he is putting the lives at risk of 100millions of people at risk, and (but that is up to you) puts America at a disadvantage. I am angry at the people who let him do this. (my emphasis)

But Bob, I don't know how old you are, but remember the stand you take here, and think about it in 20 years time.


I doubt that you recognize the depth of your anger, and that it really does amount to hatred.

I'm 79. I suspect hat I have been a conservationist/environmentalist since before you were born. No matter.

The end of the world has not come about. Mr. Trump's actions do not (yet) imperil you or Europe.

You might be imperiled by lack of effective defense by European nations. Don't worry, the USA will come to your rescue once again.

Mr. Trump is a temporary aberration in America. The adverse actions that he can get away with for the moment will be reversed within a few years at most.

Do yourself some good. Spend time working at improving things in Europe. You are merely wasting your time ranting about Mr. Trump on-line.


Don't patronize me and don't think you understand the first thing about me. If doesn't suit you. And yes, I do spend most of my time working at improving things in Europe / The Netherlands, thank you.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:27 am

EA CO AS wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Why all the disbelief over a businessman saying, "We're backing out of this deal, as the terms are unacceptable,"

Hmm, maybe I am a lousy businessman (actually I was a lousy businessman...) but I thought you think about the terms and negotiate them if they are unacceptable BEFORE you sign.

Perhaps you missed the part where the one who agreed to the terms is different from the one who is in charge now?

Well, that's the key point. Do you stick to the agreement - even though you don't like it and you are not the one who signed it - or do you consider it as binding?
As I said, I was a lousy business man because I would have done the latter... :-)
 
Olddog
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:39 am

Yes; what is the value of the POTUS inked deal? Zero ?
 
Pihero
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day I have never envisaged

Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:45 am

This is a great day !
A day I would not have dreamed of, when I saw a German Newspaper's front page :Berliner Kurier today ... click on the image to the left to expand...

Alright, alright ! it is just a tabloid, but then again , it just shows how DT is seen and how the US government has completely lost its moral leadership, the one that ushers all the others..
That's not counting the economic damage done to the states : China has understood what is at stake, apart from saving the world, they are heavily invbesting in green technologies : solar, wind, hydraulic solutions... Europe is not far behind.
Contrail designer
 
Pihero
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:49 am

Olddog wrote:
Yes; what is the value of the POTUS inked deal? Zero ?

On another thread, that was exactly the discussion I was having with one poster : Methods of weaseling out of international accords : one is to call them all *treaties*, which will then require a senate ratification of 2/3 of the votes..

But it's alright : the door is wide open for China to take the world leadership... just 50 years earlier than anybody thought :sarcastic:
Contrail designer
 
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sebolino
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:53 am

[quote="EA CO AS"

I see. So in your estimation, someone not wanting to be part of a deal that requires vastly disparate levels of participation that benefit others at their expense is somehow lying, stupid, or removed from reality?

It doesn't sound like you're interested in a deal that all can live with, but are solely fixed on having things your way instead.[/quote]


The US will be a huge loser on this. First because they will be far behind in the renewable energy economy, and second because they will suffer greatly from the sea level increase (which is already a problem in Florida).
I fail to see how "at his expense" it his. More jobs have been created so far in the US in the renewable energy sector than the number of people wotking in the coal and oil industry.
So Trump lied, made a huge mistake for his country and for the world, but still has supporters, which is a bit puzzling.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:06 am

PanHAM wrote:
There's no reason to re-negotiate anything. Assembling a new agendafor 168 countries takes Longer than a Presidents legislature. Espeally when the single Country that requests such a re-negotiation has foreseeable negotiating techniques. which can be sumed up to: "we take everything, you get nothing".

There is indeed no Need to sit down at the tables again when only the fly-over states back Trump.


Next year the Paris agreement will be renegotiated with much harsher goals, per the agreement. But Trump isn't part of that anymore, he wanted out, so no place for him at the table. Except for 3 countries, the rest of the world will continue on the chosen path.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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c933103
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:26 am

How would China react to the US's current action? China always wanted for more measures against climate change, but they wanted developed world to share greater responsibility due to their historical emission and use of resources. Now the US is out and not going to take responsibility for it, would that cause China to reduce its effort on the matter? Plus without USA on negotiation table, developing countries seems to be having a greater voice than remaining developed countries combined. Would that result in relatively more harsher term for developed countries compare to developing countries?
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Dutchy
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:29 am

c933103 wrote:
How would China react to the US's current action? China always wanted for more measures against climate change, but they wanted developed world to share greater responsibility due to their historical emission and use of resources. Now the US is out and not going to take responsibility for it, would that cause China to reduce its effort on the matter? Plus without USA on negotiation table, developing countries seems to be having a greater voice than remaining developed countries combined. Would that result in relatively more harsher term for developed countries compare to developing countries?


The current Chinese president has laid out a plan to be much more competitive and innovative. China will take a lead in the energiewende. The Chinese president is in Europe, so it will be discussed today what China and Europe will do together to lead the energiewende.
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:32 am

Florida has been mentioned a couple of times but of course Louisiana is also sinking fast.
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:39 am

sebolino wrote:

The US will be a huge loser on this. First because they will be far behind in the renewable energy economy, and second because they will suffer greatly from the sea level increase (which is already a problem in Florida).
I fail to see how "at his expense" it his. More jobs have been created so far in the US in the renewable energy sector than the number of people wotking in the coal and oil industry.
So Trump lied, made a huge mistake for his country and for the world, but still has supporters, which is a bit puzzling.



I agree

China will dive into this. They have big issues with air quality and this is an opportunity to correct it and capitalise
 
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:24 am

EA CO AS wrote:
I see. So in your estimation, someone not wanting to be part of a deal that requires vastly disparate levels of participation that benefit others at their expense is somehow lying, stupid, or removed from reality?


When the deal doesn't actually require anything and is strictly voluntary, then those words are actually quite appropriate.

“It seems very unnecessary to have to withdraw from the Paris agreement if the concern is focused on the U.S. emissions target and financial contributions,” said Susan Biniaz, who served at the State Department as the United States’ lead climate change lawyer from 1989 until earlier this year. “The U.S. can unilaterally change its emissions target under the agreement — it doesn’t have to ‘renegotiate’ it — and financial contributions are voluntary.”

“If the president believes the Paris agreement is a bad deal for the U.S. because our voluntary emission commitments are more stringent than those of other large emitters, the U.S. can reduce the ambition of our domestic policies while still remaining part of the agreement, rather than giving up our seat at the table and undermining U.S. leadership and credibility,” added Jason Bordoff, who heads the Center on Global Energy Policy at Columbia University.


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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:54 am

Apart from ignoring his scientist, Trump doesn't listen to his major industries.

https://www.ceres.org/sites/default/files/Fact%20Sheets%20or%20misc%20files/ws-ad-05-08.pdf

So, who is he trying to please? Not Pittsburgh.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/6/1/15726656/pittsburgh-mayor-trump-paris
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dtw2hyd
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:15 pm

Still don't understand the Chinese leadership claims everyone is making. What Trump did may be wrong, still it is China and India who need to fix themselves.

Obama invested $2.5B in solar energy, China lowered solar panel prices by 50%, most US startups went belly up. Is there any money to be made by US? AFAIK Germany is decades ahead of us in wind energy.technology. In both cases we will be either buying Chinese solar panels or pay royalty to Germans. Both we are doing and will do for foreseeable future

I think Trump tried to play hardball and failed. The art of deal making didn't work.
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:52 pm

Aesma wrote:
Florida has been mentioned a couple of times but of course Louisiana is also sinking fast.


As is Alabama (Mobile area), Mississippi (around GPT) and Texas anywhere between Houston and the Mexican border.
These places are going to be at a double risk, not only is the Gulf slowly rising but increased temperatures will also have nasty effects on frequency and magnitude of Hurricanes.
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:22 pm

lugie wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Florida has been mentioned a couple of times but of course Louisiana is also sinking fast.


As is Alabama (Mobile area), Mississippi (around GPT) and Texas anywhere between Houston and the Mexican border.
These places are going to be at a double risk, not only is the Gulf slowly rising but increased temperatures will also have nasty effects on frequency and magnitude of Hurricanes.

Each of those states went for the current president. They deserve to reap what they've sown.
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OA412
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:23 pm

lugie wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Florida has been mentioned a couple of times but of course Louisiana is also sinking fast.


As is Alabama (Mobile area), Mississippi (around GPT) and Texas anywhere between Houston and the Mexican border.
These places are going to be at a double risk, not only is the Gulf slowly rising but increased temperatures will also have nasty effects on frequency and magnitude of Hurricanes.

All of those states went for the current president. They deserve to reap what they've sown.
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speedbored
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Re: Trump expected to withdraw from the Paris agreement

Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:29 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
still it is China and India who need to fix themselves.

Really? Per capita, the USA emits more than twice as much CO2 as China and more than ten times as much as India. It is the USA that needs the most fixing.
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