Varsity1
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:26 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
I'll raise my hand and say that I have no idea how we'll ever stop this. Sounds like we have it all figured out on a.net though. Too bad nobody agrees but everyone thinks they're right. Not much hope, imho, so I agree we need to just accept that this will be part of our life moving forward.

RE: Trump, Obama, Merkel, et al. Has it really made a difference who is in office, what they do, who they reach out to, or anything else? IMHO, no.


The USA did not have a single successful attack while Bush was in office after 9/11. Obama brought the band back.
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Varsity1
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:29 pm

It's interesting that Europe criticized the USA's handling of "Islam and Terrorism" for over a decade only to arrive at many of the same conclusions 15 years later.

It's almost like.. we aren't idiots after all... :lol:
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AirplaneWizard
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:30 pm

There is a difference. Thankfully, the Nazis never actually invaded Great Britain. Wake up people, the invasion has already happened. It's onto the next state.

I used to be a liberal like you who hated violence and was all for world peace, until I was personally affected by such astrocius acts. I lost 3 young friends, including one of my best friend all at once. Everyone said we should help the world and all people regardless of their beliefs and ideologies. The day after the attacks, everyone wished the terrorists were caught or exterminated before. All it takes is for someone you know to be injured or taken away from you, before you realize what's at stake here.

Most of you guys won't do anything until it's your loved ones or friends who are brutally taken away from you when they have their entire lives ahead of them. Then, it's too late! One day if you have kids or grandkids, would you ever want there to even be a slight chance of a terrorist attack where they could get hurt?
 
LittleFokker
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:30 pm

DDR wrote:
LittleFokker wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
Germany bans political opinions (being a Nazi is illegal there), so not sure why a European country would not be able to ban someone based on a religious opinion.


How do you know? Were you kicked out there you ignorant, hateful nazi?

AirplaneWizard wrote:

If they are proven to be a threat and everything, you can ship them off to places such as Gauntanano Bay, or isolate them in a maximum high security prison, where they are kept away from other prisoners. They need to be kept away from local prisons because there's a chance they could radicalize simple criminals into believing their bullsh*t.


Wow, you racists have no boundaries anymore....even citizens are no longer protected by the 8th Amendment!


You should watch what you say. You are calling people names without even knowing them. You are the one who is coming off as hate filled. Please support your argument with facts, not childish name calling.


I wish that standard applied to the conservative members here who are allowed to post all that fact-free hateful jibberish that they do without ever getting suspended or banned or deleted posts. I read a lot than I post on here for a good reason.
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pvjin
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Re: Possible terrorist attack in London - Breaking

Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:36 pm

DocLightning wrote:
The big problem is that we're in a situation that mankind has literally never faced before. We're in a modern, industrialized era in which there are two cultures that are intermixing poorly. One of those cultures is modern, industrialized, and secular. One is backwards, imports what little industrialization it has, and oppressively religious. There's no historical precedent for relieving that kind of situation, is there?


Indeed there isn't. What is also different from earlier times is that now there's a thing called social welfare which allows people to get money for doing literally nothing. At least in the 1800's or whatever migrants had to earn their living through work or die from hunger, and through work they would also meet natives and eventually learn customs of their new home country. On top of that the less individualistic societies of that era wouldn't tolerate even nearly as much disrespect towards common rules and customs as ours do, in that era hate preachers wouldn't have walked free very long.

Varsity1 wrote:
It's interesting that Europe criticized the USA's handling of "Islam and Terrorism" for over a decade only to arrive at many of the same conclusions 15 years later.

It's almost like.. we aren't idiots after all... :lol:


Yeah right, your handling of Islam and terrorism is so good that you continue to support Saudis who are the worst supporters of terrorism on this planet, and give aid to various Islamist organizations in countries like Syria while hoping they will somehow establish democracy if they win. On top of that you continue to attack Iran, even though it's a Shia majority country and an enemy of the Sunni extremists who kill people in the West.

LittleFokker wrote:
Wow, you racists have no boundaries anymore....even citizens are no longer protected by the 8th Amendment!

In every democracy some of your rights can be revoked if you break the law. Do you believe prison sentences should be abolished completely?

You sound like an anarchist to me, maybe you should visit Mogadishu some time and see what your ideal nation looks like.
Last edited by pvjin on Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Kiwirob
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:39 pm

LJ wrote:
pvjin wrote:
Yep of course deportations of that scale aren't likely to ever happen. I guess that means countries with growing Muslim minorities are doomed to face more and more terrorism each passing decade, while those with few Muslims will remain safe. Most people are reasonable, including Muslims, but some world views and cultures just don't mix well with each other, and that's why the European multiculturalist project is failing.


How would you deport people who have a Western European citizenship? The problem cases are those who returned from Syria and some others, but they all have a Western European citizenship. The only thing you can do is ensuring that those extreme imans cannot enter your country, but that already happens.


Most are dual citizens and retain citizenship from their home countries.
 
AirplaneWizard
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:40 pm

LittleFokker wrote:
DDR wrote:
LittleFokker wrote:

How do you know? Were you kicked out there you ignorant, hateful nazi?



Wow, you racists have no boundaries anymore....even citizens are no longer protected by the 8th Amendment!


You should watch what you say. You are calling people names without even knowing them. You are the one who is coming off as hate filled. Please support your argument with facts, not childish name calling.


I wish that standard applied to the conservative members here who are allowed to post all that fact-free hateful jibberish that they do without ever getting suspended or banned or deleted posts. I read a lot than I post on here for a good reason.



The bad guys won't care if you are a liberal or a conservative. The bad guys want you dead as much as they want me dead. Be thankful to all the conservatives (and a few liberals) out there who are working around the clock in law enforcement agencies to prevent most of these things from happening.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Possible terrorist attack in London - Breaking

Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:45 pm

DocLightning wrote:

That's literally what people are advocating now. Because we know how well *that* has historically worked.

The big problem is that we're in a situation that mankind has literally never faced before. We're in a modern, industrialized era in which there are two cultures that are intermixing poorly. One of those cultures is modern, industrialized, and secular. One is backwards, imports what little industrialization it has, and oppressively religious. There's no historical precedent for relieving that kind of situation, is there?


Hitler was a prick but you can't say ethnic cleansing didn't work, there are very few Jews in Europe now compared to pre WW2. If Hitler had won there would be no Jews or Roma in Europe.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:48 pm

pvjin wrote:
Aesma wrote:
There is nothing to negotiate with nuts. We need to lower the number of people who go nuts. Alienating entire populations like Trump is proposing will do the opposite of that.


I wonder how we will achieve the goal of having a lower number of people who go nuts. So far pretty much all European countries have utterly failed at integrating their Muslim populations in a way that would prevent increasing radicalization, this has happened both in countries with multiculturalist ideas of integration (like Sweden), and countries which try to do exactly the opposite through assimilation, like France.

Actually I feel the whole idea that we can prevent radicalization and integrate European Muslims is flawed. For that you need participation of both sides, and it seems like some Muslims from certain countries in particular lack respect for our laws and culture and have no intent whatsoever of integrating. Those people alienate themselves from us no matter what we do.


They have already interviewed one of the terrorists neighbors, with the usual drivel about how "I can't imagine him doing this.... he was helpful around the neighborhood, crime watch, etc...."

It was reported that when the terrorists stepped out of their van, they yelled "This is for Allah".
Yet, NONE of the UK statements by officials mention that this militant terror attack, was, in fact, an "Islamic" militant terror attack. The PC censorship is telling... At least Donald J. Trump can tell it like it is, and the chips fall where they May...
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par13del
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:54 pm

GDB wrote:

'Deport the Muslims who you think are dangerous'.
To where, the 7/7 bombers, the killers of Lee Rigby, the turd who set off the Manchester bomb, all born in the UK, I bet the three that SO19 dealt with last night were too.
Jails are full of those those whose plots, from homemade knife attacks, to the 2006 attempt to blow up all those airliners, were stopped, most if not all UK born.

So what has changed, these are all locals who may even be second generation, suddenly they deem their country of birth as someplace that defiles their religion and must be destroyed, were they regarded as low risk and released or is there a greater movement at foot to radicalize locals to carry out mass murder?
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:03 pm

Varsity1 wrote:

The USA did not have a single successful attack while Bush was in office after 9/11. Obama brought the band back.


Except that whole anthrax thing... And 9/11 itself. I love how Bush gets the pass for 9/11 as if AQ hadn't tried to knock down the WTC once before and as if anything before 9/11 or the multiple failures of bureaucracy that could have spared us the whole event.
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:04 pm

OA260 wrote:
We are going to have to get used to these kind of attacks but thankfully the Police and special forces act quickly to limit the damage. Glad they shot dead the 3 attackers unless the authorities need to keep them alive for intelligence reasons then the policy should be shoot to kill.

Thoughts with the victims and the injured. Dont think its a nice thing for people to be filming victims and injured on their mobile phones and then posting on Twitter and for those that choose to watch it. Very sad !


When seconds count, the police are just minutes away.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:10 pm

DocLightning wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:

The USA did not have a single successful attack while Bush was in office after 9/11. Obama brought the band back.


Except that whole anthrax thing... And 9/11 itself. I love how Bush gets the pass for 9/11 as if AQ hadn't tried to knock down the WTC once before and as if anything before 9/11 or t4he multiple failures of bureaucracy that could have spared us the whole event.


The WTC attack in 2001 was planned for years prior to its execution. Jamie Gorelick was the political appointee in the Clinton administration who ordered the "firewall" between the Justice department and the CIA that was in place on 9/11/2001.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:11 pm

DocLightning wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:

The USA did not have a single successful attack while Bush was in office after 9/11. Obama brought the band back.


Except that whole anthrax thing... And 9/11 itself. I love how Bush gets the pass for 9/11 as if AQ hadn't tried to knock down the WTC once before and as if anything before 9/11 or the multiple failures of bureaucracy that could have spared us the whole event.


As if the liberal idiot idol Billy and his trusty side kick Al "I invented the internet" Gore couldn't have taken OBL out, yet didn't do it...
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:15 pm

GDB wrote:
12 arrested in Barking, Essex, to the East of London.
Where at least one of the dead terrorists lived apparently.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40148737


Step 1: Waterboard the extended "families" of each terrorist for what they knew and when they knew it. Terrorism doesn't deserve "human rights."
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DocLightning
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Re: Possible terrorist attack in London - Breaking

Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:35 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Hitler was a prick but you can't say ethnic cleansing didn't work, there are very few Jews in Europe now compared to pre WW2. If Hitler had won there would be no Jews or Roma in Europe.


I'm going to ignore how awful your statement is and just analyze its contents.

Hitler's premise was that he could MGGA (Make Germany Great Again) by getting rid of all the undesirables, including Jews. Had he been permitted to continue uninterrupted, an adherent of his would reasonably expect that once all the Jews, Roma, LGBT, and political opponents had been rounded up and killed, that Germany would be great and then the Holocaust program would be terminated and all the Germans would be prosperous and dance in the street with their blonde hair/blue eyes, lederhosen, beer, and pretzels or something.

But we all know that's not how it happened, and that it isn't how it would have happened. The Holocaust program would never have been voluntarily terminated because such massive beasts don't just quietly go into the night. Milosevic' did not solve all of Serbia's "problem" with Croats and now Croatia is its own nation. Rwanda is not now a utopia because it is free of Tutsis.

And if the UK started a program of ethnic cleansing of all Muslims, I assure you there would not come a happy day in which the last person with brown hair and eyes and a funny name has been removed from Great Britain and all the Brits will happily dance in the streets singing "God Save the Queen" and live in safety ever after. That sort of thing is never the outcome.
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:55 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Step 1: Waterboard the extended "families" of each terrorist for what they knew and when they knew it. Terrorism doesn't deserve "human rights."

Your sibling killed my friend. I'm gonna kill you for their act. Crime doesn't deserve human rights. You were kin, you MUST have known what they were up to.

Guilty until proven innocent...or is that only for non-privileged folks?
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727LOVER
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:00 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
The USA did not have a single successful attack while Bush was in office after 9/11. Obama brought the band back.


Mind telling me what full scale terror attacks have happened since 9/11?


Lone wolf is ENTIRELY different.

BUT....if you want define those as same scale...what about Richard Reid/the shoe bomber? Gotta take our shoes off because of that guy.
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:02 pm

Quote from PM Theresa May:

"“Everybody needs to go about their lives as they normally would,” she said. “Our society should continue to function in accordance with our values. But when it comes to taking on extremism and terrorism, things need to change.”

Mrs. May said the government may extend the time of custodial sentences for terrorism suspects, but more needed to be done in binding communities together to combat what she called “a perversion of Islam,” adding, “There is, to be frank, far too much tolerance of extremism in our country.”"

Wow, what a pie in the sky statement Mrs. May!!!

Has "binding communities together to combat what she called “a perversion of Islam”" ever yet even been successfully tried, or accomplished ??????

Claptrap imo.
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Possible terrorist attack in London - Breaking

Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:10 pm

DocLightning wrote:
Hitler's premise was that he could MGGA (Make Germany Great Again) by getting rid of all the undesirables, including Jews.


Well, Hitler wanted all Jews EVERYWHERE on the planet exterminated. It was not just about "Germany".

An example of true isolationist racism, was the Confederate States of America's Constitution, which created a white over black decree, by law, but just for their "Confederacy". They didn;t care what blacks did "outside" the Confederacy.
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Aesma
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:31 pm

andz wrote:
I can't believe that they are contemplating an investigation into why 8 officers fired "an unprecedented" 50 rounds.

They were wearing "suicide vests" and had already killed and injured who knew how many, neutralise the assholes then count the number saved, not cartridge cases.

Political correctness gone mad. Did they have an EHS review before the response?


In France after the Paris attacks there was a change of policy, policemen and gendarmes are now authorized to "shoot first, ask questions later" when it appears a "mass killing event" is occurring.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Aesma
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Re: Possible terrorist attack in London - Breaking

Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:50 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
Aesma wrote:
If anything is to be learned it's that we should do the opposite of what they're doing.

You ARE doing the exact opposite, that's why your own Jews are fleeing France in thousands to live "in fear" in a country that doesn't bs itself what it is up against.
Also, that's why the action or rather inaction against a truck plowing through a crowd of people could not be more different in Jerusalem and in Nice.


In Jerusalem they have put a lot of devices to limit the ability of vehicles to be used like this. The city of Nice had done something similar, in fact it had bought a truck and big concrete devices especially to this end. Someone screwed up and didn't install them where the truck passed. Someone else screwed up and didn't notice the same truck doing several reconnaissance passages, when no trucks are allowed near the place.

Armed cops were there, shooting at a speeding truck is easier said than done.

As for French Jews emigrating, my brother just had a kid with a Jewish woman, her and her family won't even set foot in Israel. I have discussed on a forum with someone who emigrated there, I've also watched several documentaries on the subject, and to me it appears the main reason to emigrate is the desire to live in a "Jewish country", not to say a theocracy. Antisemitic attacks and incidents are only the last straw pushing them to do it.
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DDR
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Re: Possible terrorist attack in London - Breaking

Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:18 pm

[quote="DocLightning"][quote="Kiwirob"]



Hitler's premise was that he could MGGA (Make Germany Great Again)

Doc, that is good humor right there! You win the internet today!
 
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lugie
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:19 pm

Pyrex wrote:
Germany bans political opinions (being a Nazi is illegal there), so not sure why a European country would not be able to ban someone based on a religious opinion.


There's a reason for that: Adhering to Nazi ideologies is a dumb choice you make on your own and on top of that inherently evil.
Being one of 1.6bn worldwide Muslims is not.

I do not try to deny the fact that Islam has serious problems with radical ideologies and I don't think that conflicts with me being liberal. After all, the content of these is the same as those of far-right wingers or evangelicals that liberals despise as well.

However, as some of the more sensible posters have already pointed out, there seems to be no realistic solution to the current wave of terrorism (if you disregard the insane extermination fantasies of some of the racists on here). Deportation is just not legally possible with the majority of recent perpetrators being citizens of the attacked country. I do support the idea of cracking down more rigorously on radical preachers, locking them up in isolation or deporting them when possible.

Apart from the societal problems it's the practical nature of these new attacks. Those are no high profile attacks, no 9/11s, no transatlantic flight plots, no Madrid train bombings anymore.
While that means that they don't kill hundreds or thousands in one attack they are probably even better at getting people on the edge because even with the most modern surveillance technology there is practically no reason to prevent them anymore.
All it takes is for one of these brainwashed idiots to go downstairs, take a knife out of the drawer and head downtown. Social media and the internet does the rest.
Where this leads has been nicely illustrated last night in Turin where someone supposedly letting off a fire cracker and another one (or the same) yelling 'bomb' was enough to trigger a stampede that injured 1000 people...
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JJJ
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:32 pm

lugie wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
Germany bans political opinions (being a Nazi is illegal there), so not sure why a European country would not be able to ban someone based on a religious opinion.


There's a reason for that: Adhering to Nazi ideologies is a dumb choice you make on your own and on top of that inherently evil.
Being one of 1.6bn worldwide Muslims is not.


However flying an ISIS flag or advocating holy Jihad gets you in the same book as flying a Nazi flag or advocating mass murder of Jews (both fall within incitement to hatred).

Germany has been expelling Muslim hate preachers for well over a decade now.

http://www.dw.com/en/berlin-based-hate- ... /a-1527935
 
GDB
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:32 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
pvjin wrote:
Aesma wrote:
There is nothing to negotiate with nuts. We need to lower the number of people who go nuts. Alienating entire populations like Trump is proposing will do the opposite of that.


I wonder how we will achieve the goal of having a lower number of people who go nuts. So far pretty much all European countries have utterly failed at integrating their Muslim populations in a way that would prevent increasing radicalization, this has happened both in countries with multiculturalist ideas of integration (like Sweden), and countries which try to do exactly the opposite through assimilation, like France.

Actually I feel the whole idea that we can prevent radicalization and integrate European Muslims is flawed. For that you need participation of both sides, and it seems like some Muslims from certain countries in particular lack respect for our laws and culture and have no intent whatsoever of integrating. Those people alienate themselves from us no matter what we do.


They have already interviewed one of the terrorists neighbors, with the usual drivel about how "I can't imagine him doing this.... he was helpful around the neighborhood, crime watch, etc...."

It was reported that when the terrorists stepped out of their van, they yelled "This is for Allah".
Yet, NONE of the UK statements by officials mention that this militant terror attack, was, in fact, an "Islamic" militant terror attack. The PC censorship is telling... At least Donald J. Trump can tell it like it is, and the chips fall where they May...


Yes they have, to camera. But maybe FOX, or Drudge or Alex Jones and the rest of that bunch failed to mention or show that, or even said the opposite, nothing new there.
 
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lugie
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:35 pm

JJJ wrote:

However flying an ISIS flag or advocating holy Jihad gets you in the same book as flying a Nazi flag or advocating mass murder of Jews (both fall within incitement to hatred).

Germany has been expelling Muslim hate preachers for well over a decade now.

http://www.dw.com/en/berlin-based-hate- ... /a-1527935


Which is a totally correct and sensible decision imo. But the post I quoted pretty explicitly referred to deporting people based on the fact that they are Muslims by any denomination.
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L410Turbolet
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:35 pm

GDB wrote:
And are currently run by governments who attack free speech, try to intimidate any opposition, one of the parties has dubious links to far right groups, the other by a bunch of conspiracy nuts (especially in regard to an air crash in 2010).


Their problem still may be fixed relatively easily through elections. How do you fix British demographic problem with, nominally British, enemy within? I am an optimist though, it took mere 12 years from the 7/7 subway bombings for the politicians to claim "enough is allegedly enough".

lugie wrote:
Adhering to Nazi ideologies is a dumb choice you make on your own and on top of that inherently evil.
Being one of 1.6bn worldwide Muslims is not


Why does one totalitarian ideology get a free pass whole other does not? Everyone has choice what they believe.

lugie wrote:
Islam has serious problems with radical ideologies


Islam has serious problem with itself.
 
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lugie
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:51 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:

Why does one totalitarian ideology get a free pass whole other does not? Everyone has choice what they believe.


Because not every Muslim adheres to a totalitarian ideology but every Nazi does. I thought that was evident from my op. On top of that Germany has kind of a history with Nazism so it makes every bit of sense to treat this topic specially.


L410Turbolet wrote:
Islam has serious problem with itself.


Care to elaborate? Or were you basically saying the same thing I did but only tried to make it sound a bit edgier/more "provocative"?
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Aesma
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:56 pm

In France hate preachers have been deported for decades (we had Islamist attacks in the 90's...), more recently being a Daesh sympathizer has been made illegal, just checking out propaganda websites can get you in jail. It doesn't seem to be really working, though.
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Toni_
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:43 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
I'll raise my hand and say that I have no idea how we'll ever stop this. Sounds like we have it all figured out on a.net though. Too bad nobody agrees but everyone thinks they're right. Not much hope, imho, so I agree we need to just accept that this will be part of our life moving forward.


I grew up in times when terrorist attacks in Spain, the UK and Israel were making the news non-stop. Looking back at that period I used to wonder the exact same thing. "How will this ever stop?" Specially with the Israeli-Palestine conflict I had very little hope.

We've gone through time now, and things really changed and evolved between those conflicting parties in only 2-3 decades. It is with that oerspective that I would like to view this moment in time too. The only constant is change, and what the ETA, IRA and Hamas all might have had in common is that they eventually managed to change and realize that terrorism would not bring them what they were demanding. You can punch your enemy as long as you want, if you fail to knock him (or it... in this case) down, you eventually will get tired. I can see that taking the edge off of things and temper the extremism down a little.

We're getting hit quite hard right now, but we're still standing. I'll even go further and say that, with the punches that we're receiving in Europe, we're actually becoming more united and stronger with how we continue to live our lives and proceed to do the things they don't want us to do. It's not a unity of how we view things politically, religiously or geographically, but more a powerful signal of unity in the belief of a free way of life. I've seen English football fans sing the Marseillaise before a game. And I've seen a German flag fly half staff on top of the city hall building in my hometown of Rotterdam (one of the few buildings that the Nazis spared in the WWII bombings that left a lot of people with hatred for the Germans. Both surreal signs that I would never expect to witness.

I'm afraid that we have to ride this phase out for a couple of decades too. It may look as if this will be part of our life moving forward, but that's because we humans tend to treat the moment of now as the last stop on the line. How retarded these terroristic actions are at this moment, I'd like to believe that the ideas that are fuelling those actions will have to evolve at some point. Even more so if we continue to stand strong and send out signals that the demanded outcome isn't happening
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:50 am

GDB wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
They have already interviewed one of the terrorists neighbors, with the usual drivel about how "I can't imagine him doing this.... he was helpful around the neighborhood, crime watch, etc...."

It was reported that when the terrorists stepped out of their van, they yelled "This is for Allah".
Yet, NONE of the UK statements by officials mention that this militant terror attack, was, in fact, an "Islamic" militant terror attack. The PC censorship is telling... At least Donald J. Trump can tell it like it is, and the chips fall where they May...


Yes they have, to camera. But maybe FOX, or Drudge or Alex Jones and the rest of that bunch failed to mention or show that, or even said the opposite, nothing new there.


My source was Sky News coverage of the PM speaking, the Police Commissioner, and the Terror (?) Chief speaking. Don't have cable or Fox.

Here's one for the CNN bootlickers:

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/06 ... rotesters/
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
Redd
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:58 am

Varsity1 wrote:
It's interesting that Europe criticized the USA's handling of "Islam and Terrorism" for over a decade only to arrive at many of the same conclusions 15 years later.

It's almost like.. we aren't idiots after all... :lol:



If the USA wasn't in bed with the Saudi's and hadn't been for all of these years, worldwide Islamic terrorism would look very different today. The USA works with and supports the only regime which make the Kimdom look almost normal.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:13 am

It looks like UK's PM May it taking advantage of these attacks to consider extreme actions to assure the Conservatives win the soon to be held Parliament elections including 'burka bans', revocation of citizenship and residency and more repression of privacy rights: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breakingn ... li=BBnb7Kz
It also came out Sunday that many did try to stop the attackers on Saturday night by throwing chairs, glasses, bottles and other objects.
London Bridge and the nearby train station and many streets have reopened, although some streets and the sites of most of the stabbings are still closed to the public due to the investigations and clean up.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:20 am

If she does that, it might create more chaos in the short term. In France when the burqa was banned there was already a law banning religious attire in schools, and they had always been banned for public servants, and basically in all companies. So women who had adopted the burqa knew they were not doing something accepted. In fact some of them did it to piss off people. The burqa ban then came as no surprise.

In the UK where "everything goes", perfectly peaceful people (albeit with backwards ideas) might be affected by a ban and react badly.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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par13del
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:46 am

So let them react, France caught major flak for its ban how is it going now? In short order we will hear the talk of suspending or giving up civil liberties to combat this new war, which is unconventional and demands a change in tactics.
The PM has upset tech firms with her cry to do more, imagine that, just recently they were able to get Kodi banned and Navi to shut down and no tech firms said anything, but nothing can / should be done about organizations using technology for nefarious means?
Makes you go hhhmmmmm.....
 
ChrisKen
Posts: 900
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:05 pm

par13del wrote:
just recently they were able to get Kodi banned and Navi to shut down and no tech firms said anything, but nothing can / should be done about organizations using technology for nefarious means?.

Kodi isn't banned. (They did an April fools "domain seizure" this year which you may be incorrectly referring to).
Sainsburys were selling it as of yesterday.


Navi-X shutdown in the wake of
"Last month, the EU Court of Justice (ECJ) ruled that the sale of media players deliberately pre-loaded with links to copyrighted content is illegal."
A few other similar "addons" have shutdown since as the prospect of legal action looms larger.
 
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par13del
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:46 pm

ChrisKen wrote:
Kodi isn't banned. (They did an April fools "domain seizure" this year which you may be incorrectly referring to).
Sainsburys were selling it as of yesterday.


True, think I read that a fully loaded Kodi box is banned, one can still buy the box then go load up the software (addons) to watch free tv.

In relation to this thread, the prime push behind it was economic, cable / tv companies, sports stations looking at lost revenue to folks watching free tv, they had something done in short order, no big fuss. Just the mention of additional curbs on Facebook, WhatsApps etc got folks up on major headlines.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:14 pm

pvjin wrote:
Not really, because none of them are willing to do what it would really take to get rid of terrorism, as massive deportations based on religion would break a lot human rights treaties.


There have been some bad suggestions in this thread, but I think you win the prize!

Where, exactly, do you suggest Britain deports British Muslims?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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flipdewaf
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:52 pm

andz wrote:
GlenP wrote:
andz wrote:
I can't believe that they are contemplating an investigation into why 8 officers fired "an unprecedented" 50 rounds.

They were wearing "suicide vests" and had already killed and injured who knew how many, neutralise the assholes then count the number saved, not cartridge cases.

Political correctness gone mad. Did they have an EHS review before the response?


It is standard practice that an enquiry is held even if armed police simply draw their weapons and do not fire them, in the UK. Remember that, unlike some parts of the world, the use of firearms is not standard practice.

In a similar vein, despite being issued with terms of engagement and, even if they strictly adhered to them, if squaddies had actually fired their weapons, when patrolling NI, during "The Troubles", they would still have been subject to an enquiry and possibly have ended up in a civilian court; despite the fact that there were engaged in counter insurgency operations at the time.

I get it but standard practice applies in standard times, which these are not.

Yes, they are.

Do you think police shouldn't have to justify their use of lethal force? In this instance the justification Seems very straightforward so its not an issue, I doubt the officers in question are worried.

Fred
Image
 
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pvjin
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:21 pm

scbriml wrote:
pvjin wrote:
Not really, because none of them are willing to do what it would really take to get rid of terrorism, as massive deportations based on religion would break a lot human rights treaties.


There have been some bad suggestions in this thread, but I think you win the prize!

Where, exactly, do you suggest Britain deports British Muslims?


I never suggested such a deportation to actually be made. But if one was to be made I would first offer the individuals being deported to countries which they or their parents have ties to, obviously all those with dual citizenship would be deported to the country of their second citizenship. After that I would ship rest of the people to the other side of the channel and offer them free transportation to whatever country they want within the Schengen.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
vrbarreto
Posts: 288
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:08 pm

scbriml wrote:
pvjin wrote:
Not really, because none of them are willing to do what it would really take to get rid of terrorism, as massive deportations based on religion would break a lot human rights treaties.


There have been some bad suggestions in this thread, but I think you win the prize!

Where, exactly, do you suggest Britain deports British Muslims?



Pontins Southport? They will truly feel fear there...

BTW Trump showing the entire world that he is an complete and utter dick and incapable of sane thought...
 
UltimoTiger777
Posts: 458
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:32 pm

DDR wrote:
You don't need to deport all Muslims, that amounts to ethnic cleansing. Just deport the ones who are spewing hate. The governments know who these individuals are. Why don't they bounce them before they can radicalize others?


I'd be very wary of that idea.

Because the idea of deporting someone for "spewing hate" might seem great for getting rid of Islamic fundamentalists but what happens once you've set the precedent?

A Catholic anti-abortion preacher getting deported from his ancestral homeland?
Deporting people for supporting a political party the incumbent government doesn't like?

At times like this, I would urge not just vigilance against terrorists but also against stupid knee jerk reactions that end up endangering us further in the long run.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
 
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pvjin
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:05 am

UltimoTiger777 wrote:
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."


What liberty exactly do European people lose if they restrict migration from Islamic world and deport all the radicals? Perhaps the liberty to die in a terrorist attack?

UltimoTiger777 wrote:
Because the idea of deporting someone for "spewing hate" might seem great for getting rid of Islamic fundamentalists but what happens once you've set the precedent?


Nothing if European people grow some gut and fight for their rights. Besides, where are you going to deport native born citizen?
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
Pyrex
Posts: 4698
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:24 am

Re: Terrorist attack in London

Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:44 am

lugie wrote:
There's a reason for that: Adhering to Nazi ideologies is a dumb choice you make on your own and on top of that inherently evil.
Being one of 1.6bn worldwide Muslims is not.


What a crock of shit... Islam is not a race, there is no underlying genetic condition that determines you are a muslim. Deciding to live your life according to the hallucinations of a mass murderer 13 centuries ago is exactly the same thing as being a nazi, or an Arsenal supporter - a choice you make. Just because apostasy is a crime punishable by death in almost 30 muslim-majority countries. or your own family will "honor" murder you if you try to stop being a muslim doesn't make it any different - it just shows that islam is "inherently evil" (plenty of German conscripts were shot by the S.S. and Gestapo as well when trying to flee).
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
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GlenP
Posts: 263
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:06 am

flipdewaf wrote:
andz wrote:
GlenP wrote:

It is standard practice that an enquiry is held even if armed police simply draw their weapons and do not fire them, in the UK. Remember that, unlike some parts of the world, the use of firearms is not standard practice.

In a similar vein, despite being issued with terms of engagement and, even if they strictly adhered to them, if squaddies had actually fired their weapons, when patrolling NI, during "The Troubles", they would still have been subject to an enquiry and possibly have ended up in a civilian court; despite the fact that there were engaged in counter insurgency operations at the time.

I get it but standard practice applies in standard times, which these are not.

Yes, they are.

Do you think police shouldn't have to justify their use of lethal force? In this instance the justification Seems very straightforward so its not an issue, I doubt the officers in question are worried.

Fred


Got it in one.

The fact that police have used lethal force, in a country where the vast majority are routinely armed it is deemed to be necessary that an enquiry is held, in order to confirm both that the circumstances warranted the use of such force and that it doesn't become the norm.

It may appear to be an open and shut case, in this instance, but if we start ignoring the rule of law, in our fight against terror, then we have immediately presented the perpetrators of such acts with one of their objectives on a plate.

BTW. I'm genuinely shocked at some of the policies advocated by those who's posts appear to show them as inhabiting a world somewhere to the right of Genghis Khan.

Ethnic cleansing is a good thing?

Hitler and the Nazis are held up as a shining example?

The deportation and detention of millions of people based solely on their religion and, to a lesser extent, race?

The walking advertisement for contraception that currently occupies the White House being held up as a straight talker, for following in the dishonest footsteps of his son-in-law and using a cherry picked quote from London's Mayor in an attempt to score domestic political points, as a result of the London attack?

It beggars belief that, on the 73 anniversary of Operation Overlord, we are still seeing such disgusting and inhuman acts being promoted.
Ubique Quo Fas et Gloria Ducunt
 
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pvjin
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:52 am

GlenP wrote:
It beggars belief that, on the 73 anniversary of Operation Overlord, we are still seeing such disgusting and inhuman acts being promoted.


I think it's much more alarming that Europe has an increasing number of people who want to actually kill other people because of their ethnicity or religion. Supporting deportations of some group is much less evil than actually supporting killing them, and that's what Saudi funded Salafists clearly think about Western Atheists and Christians.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
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lugie
Posts: 749
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:21 am

Pyrex wrote:
What a crock of shit... Islam is not a race, there is no underlying genetic condition that determines you are a muslim. Deciding to live your life according to the hallucinations of a mass murderer 13 centuries ago is exactly the same thing as being a nazi, or an Arsenal supporter - a choice you make. Just because apostasy is a crime punishable by death in almost 30 muslim-majority countries. or your own family will "honor" murder you if you try to stop being a muslim doesn't make it any different - it just shows that islam is "inherently evil" (plenty of German conscripts were shot by the S.S. and Gestapo as well when trying to flee).


You are trying really hard to look past the point I made...

You can be a Muslim living an entirely ordinary live, hold no grudges against other religions/nationalities/ethnicities and follow democratic principles of modern liberal western societies. You can not do that as a Nazi.
I'm not gullible enough to think that all Muslims do that (there is hard evidence against it, exhibit A being London saturday night) but I didn't claim that anywhere in my post. However you can't just deny the fact that there are a bunch of Muslims going by their daily lives respecting every single aspect of the social order in a Democracy (exhibit A: London's mayor, exhibit B: friends of mine, etc).

Oh and I'm pretty sure some football supporters would debate you on the claim of being able to "choose" your club ;)
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pvjin
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:39 am

lugie wrote:
You can be a Muslim living an entirely ordinary live, hold no grudges against other religions/nationalities/ethnicities and follow democratic principles of modern liberal western societies. You can not do that as a Nazi.


According to whom? There could be a Nazi who simply appreciates Hitler's economic policies, nationalism and not all the harassment and killing he targeted minorities with or his decision to start WW2. I mean, if you are a Muslim who hold no grudges against other religions and follows democratic principles of modern liberal western society you also pretty much have to ignore some teachings of the Quran and hadiths.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
Pyrex
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Re: Terrorist attack in London

Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:56 am

lugie wrote:
You can be a Muslim living an entirely ordinary live, hold no grudges against other religions/nationalities/ethnicities and follow democratic principles of modern liberal western societies.


Of course, just ask the Coptic Christians in Egypt, or the whole slew of persecuted people in Turkey currently, how well things go when muslims are allowed a free vote, without the supervision and control of a strong, secular military.
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