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Stealthz
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The American war on Science and Common sense

Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:24 am

Is there any chance the American (United States) electorate is going to wake up and take action to stop the crimes against the planet being committed by the Trump administration?
The EPA will now be dominated by "experts" from the industries it is supposed to be monitoring and anyone who has received a grant from the agency will be ineligible..
Trump's nominee for Consumer Protection is a lawyer who built her business on defending unsafe products...
Seems not only are the foxes defending the henhouse but the door is open as well..
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readytotaxi
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:31 pm

I agree with your POV and a contributing factor to the electorate not waking up is that the US has more citizens who are illiterate - some 16 million people - than many of its developed counterparts.

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-can ... can-t-read

Can't engauge in the debate fully if you can't read the information.
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mbmbos
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:36 pm

It's worse than anything George Orwell described. It's disturbing and it erodes democracy.

We can thank propaganda "news" sites and social media for creating this myth that the truth is unknowable, that there are alternative facts, that there's always another "side" to the argument.

It's absolutely inane and corrupt what the media has been doing. If they have an expert discussing the earth's roundness then they find some whack job flat-earther to present the "other side" of the argument. It makes for conflict and thus captures more viewers regardless of the false narrative these little setup conflicts create.

I don't know what will get us back on track. I think education is our main weapon and unfortunately, we've been chipping away at our support of educational institutions for the past 30 years. And we allow our tax dollars to support religious schools that promote creationism, alternative views on the Civil War, and all other sorts of untruths.

The U.S. is in very sad shape and I have a hard time seeing how my country will be able to turn itself around.
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Super80Fan
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:07 pm

There is a war on science and common sense in this country, but it goes well beyond Trump, the Dems, GOP, and the government. It unfortunately is ingrained in our culture and parents teach their kids to deny science. Parents have stopped becoming parents and are now "friends" with their kids. We can point (some) of the blame at the media, government, corporations, but it all comes down to what we talk about with our kids, family, and friends.
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seb146
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:21 pm

This is just one example of environmental damage being done:

https://www.wpr.org/wisconsin-foxconn-d ... egulations

Foxconn will be allowed to pollute Wisconsin with no penalty. Oil pipelines that leak but are "safe" is another example. The reason is a specific political party thinks corporations will care and will be good stewards of the environment all while taking as much money as possible.
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casinterest
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:49 pm

Here we have the head of the EPA invoking the Bible to replace scientists on the SCIENCE ADVISORY council with business interests from companies regulated by the EPA.
It's not an American War on science. It is a GOP war on intelligence.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/zahrahirji/epa ... .fq1VQJ4AD
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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ER757
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:25 pm

Stealthz wrote:
Is there any chance the American (United States) electorate is going to wake up and take action to stop the crimes against the planet being committed by the Trump administration?
The EPA will now be dominated by "experts" from the industries it is supposed to be monitoring and anyone who has received a grant from the agency will be ineligible..
Trump's nominee for Consumer Protection is a lawyer who built her business on defending unsafe products...
Seems not only are the foxes defending the henhouse but the door is open as well..


Well, there is some hope. After Trump withdrew from the Paris Climate Accord, many mayors and state governors came out to say that in their jurisdictions they would continue to honor it and abide by its guidelines. So not everyone in the US is in lockstep with the pronouncements of the ass-backwards administration in Washington DC
 
AA747123
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:48 pm

A FOX news research investigation has proven that there is no global warming or climate change. Rather natural climatic cycles. The strict EPA regulations put us at a manufacturing cost disadvantage over countries like China, India, and Mexico. I fully support rolling back most all EPA regulations.
 
LittleFokker
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:14 pm

AA747123 wrote:
FOX news research investigation


Firstly, these 4 words are completely incompatible with each other, making the rest of your jibberish meaningless and wrong.

Secondly, why does it seem like the Russian paid "conservative" trolls in this forum tend to identify with American Airlines in one way or another? Maybe Airliners.net is the NAACP's reason for issuing their advisory.
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
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Dutchy
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:38 pm

AA747123 wrote:
A FOX news research investigation has proven that there is no global warming or climate change. Rather natural climatic cycles. The strict EPA regulations put us at a manufacturing cost disadvantage over countries like China, India, and Mexico. I fully support rolling back most all EPA regulations.


Shell and BP disagree with you:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 22511.html

And please, Fox news has proven something? I guess you find, FOX is more thrust worthy then peer-reviewed scientific papers? Funny if it wasn't so sad.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Tugger
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:14 pm

AA747123 wrote:
A FOX news research investigation has proven that there is no global warming or climate change. Rather natural climatic cycles.

Excuse me, but how can you "prove there is no climate change" but then state there is climate change (aka: climatic cycles... you know changes to the climate over time?).

Kinda blows their "proof" and credibility right there.

Of course looking at this and another post you recently made I am fairly positive you are just trolling and throwing out flame-chum to goose a bunch of pearl clutching responses.

Tugg
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PanzerPowner
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:39 pm

I swear to god. This country is going to be skimming the water of failure, but I have faith the country will turn around with the new generation.
Well uh, I obviously decided to refine this but i dont know how.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:49 am

AA747123 wrote:
A FOX news research investigation has proven that there is no global warming or climate change. Rather natural climatic cycles. The strict EPA regulations put us at a manufacturing cost disadvantage over countries like China, India, and Mexico. I fully support rolling back most all EPA regulations.


Oh my, another one who just makes ridiculous statements. Just what we need, another Troll. Can you find a Russian site to troll on, they are experts as we have found out.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
LMP737
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:41 am

WarRI1 wrote:
Oh my, another one who just makes ridiculous statements. Just what we need, another Troll. Can you find a Russian site to troll on, they are experts as we have found out.


Don't feed the troll
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tommy1808
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:43 am

Super80Fan wrote:
There is a war on science and common sense in this country, but it goes well beyond Trump, the Dems, GOP, and the government. It unfortunately is ingrained in our culture and parents teach their kids to deny science. Parents have stopped becoming parents and are now "friends" with their kids. We can point (some) of the blame at the media, government, corporations, but it all comes down to what we talk about with our kids, family, and friends.


The first part was right, the 2nd wasn´t. Last time around all the stuff in your second half have not been around, but science education in the US was for sh*t, until the Sputnik shock and the realization that the USSR would probably outcompete you on the technology field, despite having a much smaller labor force than the west.
Now with the "America is the best" notion safely embedded in the US culture, you just go on repeat. How many teachers are under contractual obligation to teach certain things? Evolution as wrong, or not as established fact and nonsense like that.
We have helicopter parents too, in droves, but science literacy isn´t going the way it does in the US.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
tommy1808
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:46 am

AA747123 wrote:
like China, India, and Mexico..


you mean all the countries that handily outperform the US in pivoting towards renewable energies, and hence a higher cost disadvantage than the US has, or just those three?

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Aesma
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:41 am

AA747123 wrote:
I fully support rolling back most all EPA regulations.


First some honesty should apply and the EPA renamed the EDA : Environmental Destruction Agency
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
WIederling
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:00 am

tommy1808 wrote:
The first part was right, the 2nd wasn´t. Last time around all the stuff in your second half have not been around, but science education in the US was for sh*t, until the Sputnik shock and the realization that the USSR would probably outcompete you on the technology field,


Most of the better educated wetware was and still is importado. ( i.e. educated and formed in other cultures.)
i.e. the "Scientific Ompf" in the US is dominated by foreign (voluntary, involuntary) guests, immigrants, first gen immigrant kids.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Dutchy
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:21 am

Aesma wrote:
AA747123 wrote:
I fully support rolling back most all EPA regulations.


First some honesty should apply and the EPA renamed the EDA : Environmental Destruction Agency


America places itself outside the world order, there will be consequences to this and I am sure people like AA747123 will be happily accepting those. The world doesn't owe America a living and neither does it have to accept that an average American will use a large chunk of the available resources and available carbon sealing.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
DfwRevolution
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:28 pm

casinterest wrote:
Here we have the head of the EPA invoking the Bible to replace scientists on the SCIENCE ADVISORY council with business interests from companies regulated by the EPA.
It's not an American War on science. It is a GOP war on intelligence.

Image


Oh, B.S.

Pruitt quoted a passage from the Bible about conflicts of interest. The policy change is simply directing that EPA advisory board members can't simultaneously receive EPA grant money. You can do either, but not both. It has nothing to do with using the Bible as a scientific standard.

mbmbos wrote:
It's worse than anything George Orwell described. It's disturbing and it erodes democracy.


Oh, double B.S.

Scott Pruitt as Oklahoma AG won lawsuit after lawsuit against Obama's EPA because he understand's the agency's powers and legal authority better than they did. It's "disturbing" and "erodes democracy" when unelected bureaucrats seize power that the people didn't grant. It's "disturbing" and "erodes democracy" when the executive branch side-steps the Constitution and issues orders not authorized by law. It's "disturbing" and "erodes democracy" when agencies collude with special interest groups to "sue-and-settle" matters under the table.

Pruitt's steps should be welcomed by people who believe in due process and rule of law. Where do you stand on those matters?

Aesma wrote:
First some honesty should apply and the EPA renamed the EDA : Environmental Destruction Agency


Indeed. Obama's EPA managed to massively contaminate the pristine Animas River and simply issued a "whoopsie daisy."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gold-king- ... pa-claims/
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
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casinterest
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:37 pm

DfwRevolution wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Here we have the head of the EPA invoking the Bible to replace scientists on the SCIENCE ADVISORY council with business interests from companies regulated by the EPA.
It's not an American War on science. It is a GOP war on intelligence.

Image


Oh, B.S.

Pruitt quoted a passage from the Bible about conflicts of interest. The policy change is simply directing that EPA advisory board members can't simultaneously receive EPA grant money. You can do either, but not both. It has nothing to do with using the Bible as a scientific standard.




No, BS on you. It removes those that receive funding from the EPA, but does nothing about any of the businesses under the purview of the EPA. Those with an ax to grind are getting a leg up here.

DfwRevolution wrote:
mbmbos wrote:
It's worse than anything George Orwell described. It's disturbing and it erodes democracy.

Oh, double B.S.

Scott Pruitt as Oklahoma AG won lawsuit after lawsuit against Obama's EPA because he understand's the agency's powers and legal authority better than they did. It's "disturbing" and "erodes democracy" when unelected bureaucrats seize power that the people didn't grant. It's "disturbing" and "erodes democracy" when the executive branch side-steps the Constitution and issues orders not authorized by law. It's "disturbing" and "erodes democracy" when agencies collude with special interest groups to "sue-and-settle" matters under the table.

Pruitt's steps should be welcomed by people who believe in due process and rule of law. Where do you stand on those matters?

Aesma wrote:
First some honesty should apply and the EPA renamed the EDA : Environmental Destruction Agency


Indeed. Obama's EPA managed to massively contaminate the pristine Animas River and simply issued a "whoopsie daisy."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gold-king- ... pa-claims/
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
WIederling
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:38 pm

DfwRevolution wrote:
Indeed. Obama's EPA managed to massively contaminate the pristine Animas River and simply issued a "whoopsie daisy."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gold-king- ... pa-claims/


If you actually read the article you'll notice that your synopsis is anything but correct.
Murphy is an optimist
 
tommy1808
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:01 pm

WIederling wrote:
DfwRevolution wrote:
Indeed. Obama's EPA managed to massively contaminate the pristine Animas River and simply issued a "whoopsie daisy."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gold-king- ... pa-claims/


If you actually read the article you'll notice that your synopsis is anything but correct.



And most importantly:

The EPA said the claims could be refiled in federal court, or Congress could authorize payments.


Soo... did or didn't the GOP controlled Congress authorize payments back then?

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
WIederling
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:22 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
WIederling wrote:
DfwRevolution wrote:
Indeed. Obama's EPA managed to massively contaminate the pristine Animas River and simply issued a "whoopsie daisy."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gold-king- ... pa-claims/


If you actually read the article you'll notice that your synopsis is anything but correct.



And most importantly:

The EPA said the claims could be refiled in federal court, or Congress could authorize payments.


Soo... did or didn't the GOP controlled Congress authorize payments back then?


Seems to have got money from "Superfund" for clean up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superfund
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Superfund_sites
( boah eyh! Vast number of places where society has to massively clean up after some enterprising entrepreneurs left with their loot. )
Murphy is an optimist
 
DfwRevolution
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:39 pm

casinterest wrote:
No, BS on you. It removes those that receive funding from the EPA,


It doesn't force anyone to leave. If they want to stay on the advisory boards, then can choose to forgo grant money.

casinterest wrote:
but does nothing about any of the businesses under the purview of the EPA.


Because they aren't receiving federal grant money.

WIederling wrote:
DfwRevolution wrote:
Indeed. Obama's EPA managed to massively contaminate the pristine Animas River and simply issued a "whoopsie daisy."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gold-king- ... pa-claims/


If you actually read the article you'll notice that your synopsis is anything but correct.


What did I miss? The part where the EPA contaminate the Anmias River? Or the part where the EPA claimed sovereign immunity protected them from responsibility?
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
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casinterest
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:09 pm

DfwRevolution wrote:
casinterest wrote:
No, BS on you. It removes those that receive funding from the EPA,


It doesn't force anyone to leave. If they want to stay on the advisory boards, then can choose to forgo grant money.


So those that are using money to study the environment under the purview of an organization dedicated to the environment, are not allowed to be on an advisory board that decides on the environment? I think not. Especially when those that are completely IGNORANT of the environment are allowed to serve and deny based on the Bible.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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seahawk
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:12 am

Maybe many persons simply have researched on the internet and no longer believe lies like global warming or evolution. Many have seen that the truth is actually in the bible and not in some liberal "science". Youtube is luckily full of videos telling "the truth".
 
WIederling
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:31 am

DfwRevolution wrote:
What did I miss? The part where the EPA contaminate the Anmias River? Or the part where the EPA claimed sovereign immunity protected them from responsibility?


You held the goat but lost the rest.

Accident was caused by a contractor.
Though EPA as customer was holding the damages bag?. compare the Deep Water horizon.

If the legal standing of "sovereign immunity" is a fact they CAN NOT PAY.

If they would pay the same people now screaming "for money"
would instantly change their tune and lambast the EPA for squandering "their money".
Murphy is an optimist
 
WIederling
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:33 am

seahawk wrote:
Maybe many persons simply have researched on the internet and no longer believe lies like global warming or evolution. Many have seen that the truth is actually in the bible and not in some liberal "science". Youtube is luckily full of videos telling "the truth".


So the Bible is the First ever Youtube ? :-)
( trash in trash out. A full fit.)
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seahawk
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:38 am

Lots of fiction compiled by persons with little scientific credibility on the topics, so yes.

But in the end I blame the internet for much of it. Before it you would probably always remain an isolated crazy person if you voiced some opinions (flat earth, global warming fake,evolution fake,..), but today you just go online and you will meet plenty other people who congratulate you on no longer being sheep and starting to think freely outside the mind controlled mainstream.
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:21 pm

seahawk wrote:
Maybe many persons simply have researched on the internet and no longer believe lies like global warming or evolution. Many have seen that the truth is actually in the bible and not in some liberal "science". Youtube is luckily full of videos telling "the truth".

Please help me out here.

How do you distinguish between Youtube videos that are the equivalent of peer-reviewed science vs. those that are merely reflections of the wishful thinking of persons who are discomfited by scientific method and acquired evidence?

Research by Youtube? Is there a Youtube citations index?
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
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seahawk
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:32 pm

That is the nice part of the youtube university, whatever your opinion is, it will be "scientifically" confirmed.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:55 pm

Looks like y'all need to read Bruce Malone's

Censored Science: The Suppressed Evidence

If you Dare . . . .

Updated and expanded in 2014, the volume contains both the most recent cutting-edge evidence for creation and time-tested evidence which have never been answered by those rejecting Biblical truth. The book is divided into three major sections - Censored Biological Evidence, Censored Geological Evidence, and Censored Cosmological Evidence. Each section starts with a description of how an assumption of naturalism prevents our educational system from exposing students to any evidence which contradicts the presuppositions of evolution.
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Aesma
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:07 pm

Science explains very well the formation of our planet, the fossils we find, etc. The bible says "god did it". I know which one is convincing.

Besides, religious people can't even agree among themselves on which one of their fairy-tales is true.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:41 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Looks like y'all need to read Bruce Malone's

Censored Science: The Suppressed Evidence

If you Dare . . . .

Updated and expanded in 2014, the volume contains both the most recent cutting-edge evidence for creation and time-tested evidence which have never been answered by those rejecting Biblical truth. The book is divided into three major sections - Censored Biological Evidence, Censored Geological Evidence, and Censored Cosmological Evidence. Each section starts with a description of how an assumption of naturalism prevents our educational system from exposing students to any evidence which contradicts the presuppositions of evolution.

Mr. Malone is supposedly a chemical engineer at DOW Chemical. According to what I read online about his book, he does not agree that the Earth is billions of years old.

This makes me wonder how a chemist can deny the evidence of chemistry.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:02 am

LMP737 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
Oh my, another one who just makes ridiculous statements. Just what we need, another Troll. Can you find a Russian site to troll on, they are experts as we have found out.


Don't feed the troll


I called him out as Troll and an Idiot, I certainly do not feed them and I do not need such a warning. :sarcastic: :sarcastic:
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
treetreeseven
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:29 am

BobPatterson wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
Looks like y'all need to read Bruce Malone's

Censored Science: The Suppressed Evidence

If you Dare . . . .

Updated and expanded in 2014, the volume contains both the most recent cutting-edge evidence for creation and time-tested evidence which have never been answered by those rejecting Biblical truth. The book is divided into three major sections - Censored Biological Evidence, Censored Geological Evidence, and Censored Cosmological Evidence. Each section starts with a description of how an assumption of naturalism prevents our educational system from exposing students to any evidence which contradicts the presuppositions of evolution.

Mr. Malone is supposedly a chemical engineer at DOW Chemical. According to what I read online about his book, he does not agree that the Earth is billions of years old.

This makes me wonder how a chemist can deny the evidence of chemistry.

You know what they say about chemists trying to moonlight as biologists (and vice versa).... probably the same is true with geologists :p
 
WIederling
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:04 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Looks like y'all need to read Bruce Malone's

Censored Science: The Suppressed Evidence


Outch!
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Dutchy
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:13 am

Aesma wrote:
Science explains very well the formation of our planet, the fossils we find, etc. The bible says "god did it". I know which one is convincing.

Besides, religious people can't even agree among themselves on which one of their fairy-tales is true.


I can't explain it, thus God did it. They should just leave it with the first phrase and then look for an answer of why. :D
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
tommy1808
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:09 am

BobPatterson wrote:
This makes me wonder how a chemist can deny the evidence of chemistry.


Kurt Wise, after getting a Ph.D. in paleontology from Harvard University. In addition, an M.A. in geology from Harvard University and a B.A. Geology from the University of Chicago, is still a young earth creationist. Not because he doesn´t know or understand the science, not because he finds the science faulty in general, but just because he found out that science and his religion are mutually exclusive after physically cutting everything out of a bible that can´t be true if science is, and was left with a bible he couldn´t pick up without it falling apart.

Faith has no problem in getting people to reject reality.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
flipdewaf
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The American war on Science and Common sense

Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:24 am

Religion is incredibly useful and good if you are fundamentally lazy and ignorant. It allows people to feel like they have done something, absolve them selves from responsibility, absolve themselves from moral decision making and allows them to achieve a feeling of doing right by the world all whilst making the square root of jack shit towards progress of actually making the world a better place.

Why do people lack common sense and have a war on science ( it's not just America)? People don't like the truth, it scares them.

God isn't real whether you believe in him or not, the quicker people understand this the better the world will be.

"Your ignorance is not as valid as my knowledge" . Belief in god is ignorance!

Fred


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LMP737
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:41 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Looks like y'all need to read Bruce Malone's

Censored Science: The Suppressed Evidence

If you Dare . . . .

Updated and expanded in 2014, the volume contains both the most recent cutting-edge evidence for creation and time-tested evidence which have never been answered by those rejecting Biblical truth. The book is divided into three major sections - Censored Biological Evidence, Censored Geological Evidence, and Censored Cosmological Evidence. Each section starts with a description of how an assumption of naturalism prevents our educational system from exposing students to any evidence which contradicts the presuppositions of evolution.


Looks like you and Mr. Malone need to crack open a book other than the bible.

Mr. Malone is conveniently ignoring things like carbon dating, speed of light and pretty much anything that contradicts the bible.
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Tugger
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:32 pm

LMP737 wrote:
Mr. Malone is conveniently ignoring things like carbon dating, speed of light and pretty much anything that contradicts the bible.

Well yeah, of course! That is the whole point it seems: Come up with the how and why stuff happened and happens in the distant past. When science wasn't a developed process beyond just looking at the world and imaging "why". It is not science based.

Then you throw on top of that the desire of the Bibles creators to enshrine male dominance into their followers and believers and you end up with the science and common sense defying tome we have today. (Oh, and of course it cannot be changed).

Tugg
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:36 am

LMP737 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
Looks like y'all need to read Bruce Malone's

Censored Science: The Suppressed Evidence

If you Dare . . . .

Updated and expanded in 2014, the volume contains both the most recent cutting-edge evidence for creation and time-tested evidence which have never been answered by those rejecting Biblical truth. The book is divided into three major sections - Censored Biological Evidence, Censored Geological Evidence, and Censored Cosmological Evidence. Each section starts with a description of how an assumption of naturalism prevents our educational system from exposing students to any evidence which contradicts the presuppositions of evolution.


Looks like you and Mr. Malone need to crack open a book other than the bible.

Mr. Malone is conveniently ignoring things like carbon dating, speed of light and pretty much anything that contradicts the bible.


I read the internet.

Carbon dating was not invented until 1949.

http://www.truthingenesis.com/2013/01/0 ... the-bible/
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seahawk
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:53 am

If this would be the only method of radiometric dating, it would be an argument, too bad it is not.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:00 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
I read the internet.


Congratulations, the most brilliant statement of the year. :lol:
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tommy1808
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:30 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
I read the internet.

Carbon dating was not invented until 1949.

http://www.truthingenesis.com/2013/01/0 ... the-bible/


you shouldn´t read BS on the internet.

“With their short 5,700 year half-life, no carbon 14 atoms should exist in any carbon older than 250,000 years. Yet it has proven impossible to find any natural source of carbon below Pleistocene (Ice Age) strata that does not contain significant amounts of carbon 14, even though such strata are supposed to be millions or billions of years old. Conventional carbon 14 laboratories have been aware of this anomaly since the early 1980’s, have striven to eliminate it, and are unable to account for it.


This is so wrong on many levels, not just do we have carbon dated items way older then the Pleistocene age, 60k years or so, also do labs not have a problem to account for it. Radioactivity is everywhere, so you can get C14 pretty much anywhere. That link only shows that they truly understand nothing about reality.

which cannot be contaminated in situ with recent carbon


well, doh.... not just isn´t there such a thing as "recent carbon" in any meaningful way, there are not that many process that actually make carbon and even fewer of those happen on earth, but carbon gets converted in situ. Which they basically knows, since

This radioactive carbon 14 is different from regular carbon. It is produced by radiation striking the atmosphere. In essence, sunlight strikes the atmosphere, slaps the nitrogen around, and turns it into carbon 14.


Right, Radiation makes Carbon-14 and background radiation puts a limit on how far back we can use C-14 dating. So, the author is either, sorry for being so blunt, too stupid to understand what he himself is writing, or deliberately lying. Also

If all of the carbon 14 atoms would have disappeared at a maximum of 250,000 years, why would there still be carbon 14 atoms in coal?


he doens´t even grasp the concept of half time....

Doesn´t take much scientific literacy to know that is nonsense.

best regards
Thomas
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Aesma
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:19 am

Besides, "science" doesn't say that C14 datation is perfect, on the contrary, it's quite a difficult technique to use and often can't provide accurate results.

In one sentence he affirms that the planet cannot be billions of years old because there are C14 atoms in coal ! No need to write such a long article if it's to end up with such nonsense.
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WIederling
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:19 am

Aesma wrote:
Besides, "science" doesn't say that C14 datation is perfect, on the contrary, it's quite a difficult technique to use and often can't provide accurate results.

In one sentence he affirms that the planet cannot be billions of years old because there are C14 atoms in coal ! No need to write such a long article if it's to end up with such nonsense.


everything that you ever want to know:
https://ncse.com/cej/3/2/answers-to-cre ... -14-dating
:-)

errors in the process go both ways. you not only can have less C-14 indication than there is
you can also get C-14 indication where there are none.
mass spectroscopy is much more precise than the earlier established methods.
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casinterest
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Re: The American war on Science and Common sense

Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:19 pm

WIederling wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Besides, "science" doesn't say that C14 datation is perfect, on the contrary, it's quite a difficult technique to use and often can't provide accurate results.

In one sentence he affirms that the planet cannot be billions of years old because there are C14 atoms in coal ! No need to write such a long article if it's to end up with such nonsense.


everything that you ever want to know:
https://ncse.com/cej/3/2/answers-to-cre ... -14-dating
:-)

errors in the process go both ways. you not only can have less C-14 indication than there is
you can also get C-14 indication where there are none.
mass spectroscopy is much more precise than the earlier established methods.



So would it blow the minds of these bible truthers to know that the half life of other Elements and their Isotopes in the perodic table are longer than C14's and these can be used to date much older items?

https://www2.palomar.edu/anthro/time/ta ... otopes.htm



Isotopes Half-life (years) Effective Dating Range (years)
Dating Sample Key Fission Product
Lutetium-176 Hafnium-176 37.8 billion early Earth
Uranium-238 Lead-206 4.468 billion 10 million to origin of Earth
Uranium-235 Lead-207 704 million 10 million to origin of Earth
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 4 8.8 billion 10 million to origin of Earth
Potassium-40 Argon-40 1.277 billion 100,000 to origin of Earth
Carbon-14 Nitrogen-14 5730 ± 40 0-100,000


And Radiometric dating is accurate, unlike what the YEC want to believe.

https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2 ... able-again
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