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Derico
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Travel Warning to developed countries

Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:38 pm

Travel advisories are usually associated with unstable under-developed locations, but with what has been happening in the last few years (islamic and domestic terror; far right ideologies rising and racial attacks, general xenophobia, separatist movements, without even talking about "normal" crime which has been quietly rising in many first world cities), what travel warnings have been issued to Highly developed countries, both by other peer countries and/or by emerging or under-developed countries?

Do people even heed these warnings, in either direction?
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Bostrom
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:45 pm

A lot of them, but that depends on where you draw the line. Travel advisories can be "unstable government and high risk of a coup", but can also be "don't drink the tap water".

A couple of travel advice about the US: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... /88458238/
 
phatfarmlines
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:49 pm

A few have been put up by other countries to the U.S.:

The UAE issued a travel warning to the U.S. for its Arab citizens due to xenophobic attacks. They recommended not wearing the traditional Arab thawb if traversing in the States.

Bahamas also issued a travel warning to the U.S., citing police violence towards African-Americans.
 
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777222LR
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:18 pm

To be honest, the deeper we get into the Trump administration, the more I realize that homophobia, Islamaphobia, and racism exist. I guess that's what happens when a president gives these groups a free pass. Being gay, I found the joke from Trump about Pence wanting to "hang the gays," quite disturbing. I also know people, especially here in the south, have been emboldened recently to express their homophobia. A fellow realtor friend said a client of his told him, "I don't want to list my home with a faggot." I had another friend in the same week report he was in his front yard and someone drove by and called him a "disgusting faggot."

I was in a meeting and someone said this about working with a muslim family: "I was so worried the husband was going to ask to work with a man. I was completely surprised they were nice people." - Educate yourself.

I also had someone say to me, "These blacks are making me so made with this kneeling bull. It makes me want to get out my confederate flag and fly it in my yard."

If you read through DJT tweets, especially the ones about the recent attack in NYC, his supporters are calling on him to "kill all Muslims."

I do not recognize this country anymore. And it doesn't surprise me one bit that there are travel warnings.
 
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bombayduck
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:50 pm

Well the genie has been well and truly let out of the bottle now, and it will be difficult in putting the stopper back in the bottle.
 
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seb146
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:57 pm

I don't think some people can heed those warnings. Business trips have to be made. Some industries have interests in hostile lands. Others want to feel like they are cheating death. I think that is part of the attraction of DPRK. Going in, looking around, and leaving and saying you did it.
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Aesma
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:23 pm

Chinese people are regularly targeted in and around Paris because they often travel in organized groups, with pockets full of cash, or after their shopping sprees bags full of luxury goods. They are warned about this but still come, and are still attacked. I can't really understand why they buy these goods while staying at low cost hotels in seedy suburbs. I would never buy a 1000€ handbag unless I was really making big bucks, but these Chinese don't seem that rich, some of them are really badly dressed, I don't know why they buy these. I know they're more expensive in China, but still.
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Bostrom
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:30 pm

To avoid turning this into another Trump discussion, Israel can also be mentioned as a developed country that travel warnings sometimes are issued for. There have been a lot terrorist attacks and currently the Swedish MFA advises against non-necessary journeys to parts of the country.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:44 pm

Americans have been advised to use caution in most places in Mexico, even at resorts due to drugged drinks, drug cartel violence and general criminal activity toward any monied persons.
In most developed countries, just use common sense. Don't flash money, secure your money and critical papers, don't act like 'a tourist'. Be respectable, Don't break their laws. Be careful with criticism of local politics and politicians. Try to learn or be willing to learn something of their culture, history and ways. That will usually limit your risks.
 
WIederling
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:49 pm

Aesma wrote:
Chinese people are regularly targeted i................ I know they're more expensive in China, but still.


VW workers from Wolfsburg in their holiday destinations would present as at least middle management.
And they would spend accordingly.
In my time there I never saw so many taking out credit to finance their big britches.
( in an environment of rather good income levels to begin with )
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:15 pm

phatfarmlines wrote:
A few have been put up by other countries to the U.S.:

The UAE issued a travel warning to the U.S. for its Arab citizens due to xenophobic attacks. They recommended not wearing the traditional Arab thawb if traversing in the States.


That's rich coming from the country where being LGBT is illegal.
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CanadaFair
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:37 pm

LGBT being illegal in Islamic, conservative, traditional UAE cannot be compared to harassing people for their religious beliefs and appearence associated to their beliefs and culture or ethnicity, in a first world, liberal, democratic western country. BTW no foreigner is harassed in UAE for their religious beliefs or dress.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:50 pm

CanadaFair wrote:
LGBT being illegal in Islamic, conservative, traditional UAE cannot be compared to harassing people for their religious beliefs and appearence associated to their beliefs and culture or ethnicity, in a first world, liberal, democratic western country. BTW no foreigner is harassed in UAE for their religious beliefs or dress.


UAE might be considered "first world" due to it's buildings and economy but culturally it is a very backwards, bigoted country. The US is a much larger country, so of course there are going to be more instances of bigotry. Don't know why the UAE gets excused for bigotry towards LGBT individuals and using slavery to get to where they are today.
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BobPatterson
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:55 pm

CanadaFair wrote:
BTW no foreigner is harassed in UAE for their religious beliefs or dress.

What would happen to an Evangelical Christian who, acting within his belief, attempted to or actually did convert a Muslim to Christianity?

Doing the opposite is OK (converting a Christian to Islam).
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:08 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
CanadaFair wrote:
LGBT being illegal in Islamic, conservative, traditional UAE cannot be compared to harassing people for their religious beliefs and appearence associated to their beliefs and culture or ethnicity, in a first world, liberal, democratic western country. BTW no foreigner is harassed in UAE for their religious beliefs or dress.


UAE might be considered "first world" due to it's buildings and economy but culturally it is a very backwards, bigoted country. The US is a much larger country, so of course there are going to be more instances of bigotry. Don't know why the UAE gets excused for bigotry towards LGBT individuals and using slavery to get to where they are today.

Did I call UAE first world anywhere in my post?
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:18 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
CanadaFair wrote:
BTW no foreigner is harassed in UAE for their religious beliefs or dress.

What would happen to an Evangelical Christian who, acting within his belief, attempted to or actually did convert a Muslim to Christianity?

Doing the opposite is OK (converting a Christian to Islam).

My response was to a comment about LGBT being illegal in an Islamic country vs Muslims and others being harrassed based on their religious beliefs, appearance and ethnicity. in a democratic, first world western, liberal, all inclusive attitude country.
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:48 pm

CanadaFair wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
CanadaFair wrote:
BTW no foreigner is harassed in UAE for their religious beliefs or dress.

What would happen to an Evangelical Christian who, acting within his belief, attempted to or actually did convert a Muslim to Christianity?

Doing the opposite is OK (converting a Christian to Islam).

My response was to a comment about LGBT being illegal in an Islamic country vs Muslims and others being harrassed based on their religious beliefs, appearance and ethnicity. in a democratic, first world western, liberal, all inclusive attitude country.

Yes, yes, and my question was in response to the claim you made..... "BTW no foreigner is harassed in UAE for their religious beliefs....."

I suggest that you might be more than harassed if you are caught attempting to convert a Muslim in the UAE.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:28 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
CanadaFair wrote:
LGBT being illegal in Islamic, conservative, traditional UAE cannot be compared to harassing people for their religious beliefs and appearence associated to their beliefs and culture or ethnicity, in a first world, liberal, democratic western country. BTW no foreigner is harassed in UAE for their religious beliefs or dress.


UAE might be considered "first world" due to it's buildings and economy but culturally it is a very backwards, bigoted country. The US is a much larger country, so of course there are going to be more instances of bigotry. Don't know why the UAE gets excused for bigotry towards LGBT individuals and using slavery to get to where they are today.


Yes, don't have sex as an unmarried straight couple. A western couple was arrested for this in the UAE a while back.
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bgm
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:58 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
CanadaFair wrote:
LGBT being illegal in Islamic, conservative, traditional UAE cannot be compared to harassing people for their religious beliefs and appearence associated to their beliefs and culture or ethnicity, in a first world, liberal, democratic western country. BTW no foreigner is harassed in UAE for their religious beliefs or dress.


UAE might be considered "first world" due to it's buildings and economy but culturally it is a very backwards, bigoted country. The US is a much larger country, so of course there are going to be more instances of bigotry. Don't know why the UAE gets excused for bigotry towards LGBT individuals and using slavery to get to where they are today.


It's not like the US ever used slavery to get where it is today.. nope! Those fields just picked themselves I guess :duck:

Loving the cognitive dissonance on display.
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:25 am

BobPatterson wrote:
CanadaFair wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
What would happen to an Evangelical Christian who, acting within his belief, attempted to or actually did convert a Muslim to Christianity?

Doing the opposite is OK (converting a Christian to Islam).

My response was to a comment about LGBT being illegal in an Islamic country vs Muslims and others being harrassed based on their religious beliefs, appearance and ethnicity. in a democratic, first world western, liberal, all inclusive attitude country.

Yes, yes, and my question was in response to the claim you made..... "BTW no foreigner is harassed in UAE for their religious beliefs....."

I suggest that you might be more than harassed if you are caught attempting to convert a Muslim in the UAE.

Are Muslims harassed in US for trying to convert others or simply for being and looking Muslim? will a priest be harassed in UAE for his religion and his religious attire alone? No.
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:27 am

CanadaFair wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
CanadaFair wrote:
My response was to a comment about LGBT being illegal in an Islamic country vs Muslims and others being harrassed based on their religious beliefs, appearance and ethnicity. in a democratic, first world western, liberal, all inclusive attitude country.

Yes, yes, and my question was in response to the claim you made..... "BTW no foreigner is harassed in UAE for their religious beliefs....."

I suggest that you might be more than harassed if you are caught attempting to convert a Muslim in the UAE.

Are Muslims harassed in US for trying to convert others or simply for being and looking Muslim? will a priest be harassed in UAE for his religion and his religious attire alone? No.

Like many people who are shown to have been wrong in their claims, you have difficulty in addressing the point at issue. Diversionary tactics will get you nowhere with me.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
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zckls04
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:07 am

BobPatterson wrote:
Like many people who are shown to have been wrong in their claims, you have difficulty in addressing the point at issue. Diversionary tactics will get you nowhere with me.


No, you're just not getting it. The point is that in the US we should be holding ourselves to a higher standard.

Super80Fan wrote:
Don't know why the UAE gets excused for bigotry towards LGBT individuals and using slavery to get to where they are today.


Please tell me this is satire.
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CanadaFair
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:19 am

BobPatterson wrote:
CanadaFair wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
Yes, yes, and my question was in response to the claim you made..... "BTW no foreigner is harassed in UAE for their religious beliefs....."

I suggest that you might be more than harassed if you are caught attempting to convert a Muslim in the UAE.

Are Muslims harassed in US for trying to convert others or simply for being and looking Muslim? will a priest be harassed in UAE for his religion and his religious attire alone? No.

Like many people who are shown to have been wrong in their claims, you have difficulty in addressing the point at issue. Diversionary tactics will get you nowhere with me.

How shrewd, you did just that in your first post to mine. dragging in something totally unrelated as a diversion. so SFU.
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:25 am

zckls04 wrote:
BobPatterson wrote:
Like many people who are shown to have been wrong in their claims, you have difficulty in addressing the point at issue. Diversionary tactics will get you nowhere with me.


No, you're just not getting it. The point is that in the US we should be holding ourselves to a higher standard.

You might have a point if I had addressed anything he said about the United States. But I did not.

I criticized his statement: "BTW no foreigner is harassed in UAE for their religious beliefs....."

Try to stay on topic.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:31 am

bgm wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
CanadaFair wrote:
LGBT being illegal in Islamic, conservative, traditional UAE cannot be compared to harassing people for their religious beliefs and appearence associated to their beliefs and culture or ethnicity, in a first world, liberal, democratic western country. BTW no foreigner is harassed in UAE for their religious beliefs or dress.


UAE might be considered "first world" due to it's buildings and economy but culturally it is a very backwards, bigoted country. The US is a much larger country, so of course there are going to be more instances of bigotry. Don't know why the UAE gets excused for bigotry towards LGBT individuals and using slavery to get to where they are today.


It's not like the US ever used slavery to get where it is today.. nope! Those fields just picked themselves I guess :duck:

Loving the cognitive dissonance on display.


Difference being, we learned from our ways and slavery is illegal in the US today. Not so much in the UAE. Please pick up a book.
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Super80Fan
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:32 am

zckls04 wrote:

Super80Fan wrote:
Don't know why the UAE gets excused for bigotry towards LGBT individuals and using slavery to get to where they are today.


Please tell me this is satire.


Please tell me you can tell the difference between Early America and modern day.
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RoySFlying
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:36 am

BobPatterson wrote:
What would happen to an Evangelical Christian who, acting within his belief, attempted to or actually did convert a Muslim to Christianity?


It is the case that in general people are not harassed for being Christian, Hindu or whatever in the UAE. In fact, the Government of Dubai, for example, has donated land so that followers of other religions can build churches and temples where services are performed. Proselytising is against the law and a person who attempts to do so can be arrested and charged. This fact is worthy of a travel advisory.

Super80Fan wrote:
That's rich coming from the country where being LGBT is illegal.


The travel advisory issued by the UAE followed a well-reported in local media instance of an Emirati being arrested and manhandled in the US, simply for using his phone while being dressed like an Arab. Given the fact that some people in the US are distrustful of Muslims, it seems a reasonable suggestion to not wear traditional clothing and to dress in a style that allows a person to blend in with the local population.
 
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zckls04
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:30 am

Super80Fan wrote:
Please tell me you can tell the difference between Early America and modern day.


Hate to tell you this, but history is a continuous arc. You can't just discount the bits you don't like.

The UAE is built on slavery, but so is the USA. Yes, it was a long time ago, but no, that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

BobPatterson wrote:
Try to stay on topic.


Thanks. But in a discussion about the relative merits of travel advisories, my post is about as on point as it gets. Try to keep up old boy.
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777222LR
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:20 pm

Another case just happened yesterday: Two lesbians were referred by a friend of mine who is a florist to a wedding planner. The wedding planner replied: "I do not support your choice to be in a same-sex marriage, but out of the kindness Jesus Christ instilled in me, and to show His love, I will offer my services to you." - What's ironic about this, is she uses "Jesus's Love" to shame them for the marriage, but still wants to take their money.

As far as the UAE goes, I just returned from there. There's no penalty for being a Christian. I actually saw Christian churches. SO...I think that point is mute. On the other hand, being openly gay, is a crime. However, friends who live there tell me there are so many men and women who are in relationships. Most turn a blind eye. The only time you may find yourself in trouble is if you somehow offend an Emerati with homosexual behavior in public. That said, PDA is frowned upon from straight people as well.
 
WIederling
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:00 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
I suggest that you might be more than harassed if you are caught attempting to convert a Muslim in the UAE.


Proselytizing "Guests" are welcome nowhere.
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StarAC17
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:19 pm

777222LR wrote:
To be honest, the deeper we get into the Trump administration, the more I realize that homophobia, Islamaphobia, and racism exist. I guess that's what happens when a president gives these groups a free pass. Being gay, I found the joke from Trump about Pence wanting to "hang the gays," quite disturbing. I also know people, especially here in the south, have been emboldened recently to express their homophobia. A fellow realtor friend said a client of his told him, "I don't want to list my home with a faggot." I had another friend in the same week report he was in his front yard and someone drove by and called him a "disgusting faggot."

I was in a meeting and someone said this about working with a muslim family: "I was so worried the husband was going to ask to work with a man. I was completely surprised they were nice people." - Educate yourself.

I also had someone say to me, "These blacks are making me so made with this kneeling bull. It makes me want to get out my confederate flag and fly it in my yard."

If you read through DJT tweets, especially the ones about the recent attack in NYC, his supporters are calling on him to "kill all Muslims."

I do not recognize this country anymore. And it doesn't surprise me one bit that there are travel warnings.


I think that prejudices will always continue to exist even as humans get more progressive with multicultural unity and gender diversification as an example. I can understand having a racist, sexist, homophobic thought and I think we all do at some point. I think most people consider that bad traits and not a positive ones.

What is different now is that Trump has empowered what has long been considered a negative thing in humanity. Not surprising as the Cheeto man thinks he is genetically superior to other human beings.
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seb146
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:28 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
CanadaFair wrote:
LGBT being illegal in Islamic, conservative, traditional UAE cannot be compared to harassing people for their religious beliefs and appearence associated to their beliefs and culture or ethnicity, in a first world, liberal, democratic western country. BTW no foreigner is harassed in UAE for their religious beliefs or dress.


UAE might be considered "first world" due to it's buildings and economy but culturally it is a very backwards, bigoted country. The US is a much larger country, so of course there are going to be more instances of bigotry. Don't know why the UAE gets excused for bigotry towards LGBT individuals and using slavery to get to where they are today.


You are excusing the United States for the exact same thing, so
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Super80Fan
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:24 pm

seb146 wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
CanadaFair wrote:
LGBT being illegal in Islamic, conservative, traditional UAE cannot be compared to harassing people for their religious beliefs and appearence associated to their beliefs and culture or ethnicity, in a first world, liberal, democratic western country. BTW no foreigner is harassed in UAE for their religious beliefs or dress.


UAE might be considered "first world" due to it's buildings and economy but culturally it is a very backwards, bigoted country. The US is a much larger country, so of course there are going to be more instances of bigotry. Don't know why the UAE gets excused for bigotry towards LGBT individuals and using slavery to get to where they are today.


You are excusing the United States for the exact same thing, so


I don't excuse the US for anything, I'm just saying the US currently doesn't ban public displays of affection or being LGBT.
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seb146
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:53 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:

UAE might be considered "first world" due to it's buildings and economy but culturally it is a very backwards, bigoted country. The US is a much larger country, so of course there are going to be more instances of bigotry. Don't know why the UAE gets excused for bigotry towards LGBT individuals and using slavery to get to where they are today.


You are excusing the United States for the exact same thing, so


I don't excuse the US for anything, I'm just saying the US currently doesn't ban public displays of affection or being LGBT.


And in huge swaths of the United States, that can get people killed. Assaulted at the very least. A man and a woman can make and the most that will happen is someone will say "get a room" but if I put my arm around my brosband in many parts of this country, there is a very good chance we will be punched and kicked and spat on.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
WIederling
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Re: Travel Warning to developed countries

Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:10 am

seb146 wrote:
And in huge swaths of the United States, that can get people killed. Assaulted at the very least. A man and a woman can make and the most that will happen is someone will say "get a room" but if I put my arm around my brosband in many parts of this country, there is a very good chance we will be punched and kicked and spat on.


Reminds me of "Easy Rider" The Nicolls type being blown away in passing with a shotgun "we don't like you".
Murphy is an optimist

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