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WarRI1
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Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:25 am

Does anyone see the trickle down trickling down??
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
910A
Posts: 1891
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:11 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:22 pm

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/23/opin ... Columnists

The Tax Cut con: Again why it's important that change come to Washington.

First of all, there is every reason to believe that a Republican Congress, freed from the immediate threat of elections, would do what it narrowly failed to do last year, and repeal the Affordable Care Act. This would cause tens of millions of Americans to lose health insurance and would in particular hit those with pre-existing conditions. There’s a reason health care, not Trump, is the central theme of Democratic campaigns this year.

But the attack on the social safety net probably wouldn’t stop with a rollback of Obama-era expansion: Longstanding programs, very much including Social Security and Medicare, would also be on the chopping block. Who says so? Republicans themselves.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Tax reform win.

Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:34 pm

What happened in Washington with the tax cut is exactly what the country did not need, nor was it prepared for. Instead of a stable growing strong economy with tax receipts to support current programs combined with Republican fiscal restraint, we instead have the mess we have now, no wage growth, increasing debt, companies still hoarding cash waiting for a crash of some kind. (And then you have the stupid trade war crap going on. While I actually do agree that confronting growing imbalances were needed, thee fact that Trump has handled it so poorly has created a worse situation.)

We need to see some kind of income increase spread to the base in order to sustain the economy. So far we are not seeing that and it appears to be the opposite is occurring.

Taxes should have been kept stable with possibly some increases across the board (applied to both lower and higher wealth categories). In addition to restraint in growing cost of programs.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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casinterest
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Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:30 pm

Uh oh,
Looks like those Tax cuts mean that the Government can't pay for those Federal Employee raises.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/30/politics ... index.html

Watch out for the economy to tank.

All that Growth Trump keeps trumpeting, ain't happening. The debt is going sky high to pay for rich men to cheat on their wives with porn stars.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:08 pm

No raise next year

So wait...you mean to tell me that tax cuts cause a deficit because revenue is lower and thus you can't pay federal workers as intended?

I'm shocked *shocked* I tell you...
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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casinterest
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Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:36 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
No raise next year

So wait...you mean to tell me that tax cuts cause a deficit because revenue is lower and thus you can't pay federal workers as intended?

I'm shocked *shocked* I tell you...


But they are working on Tax Cuts round 2 to really screw every one over.

Of course Trump and the GOP will pump it up as draining the swamp.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
aviationaware
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Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:59 pm

Tugger wrote:

We need to see some kind of income increase spread to the base in order to sustain the economy. So far we are not seeing that and it appears to be the opposite is occurring.

Taxes should have been kept stable with possibly some increases across the board (applied to both lower and higher wealth categories). In addition to restraint in growing cost of programs.

Tugg


Consumer spending is on an all time high. Nice try though. You are being taken for a ride by your Democrat friends.

Tax increases are a stupid idea. Public spending does not grow the economy sustainably. Creating jobs does. That‘s what this administration is doing, and keeps doing as cna be seen with new NAFTA. Real wages will only go up notably once there is full employment, and creating just that is Trump‘s priority right now. Subsequent wage growth is an automatism once that has been achieved. If you believe anything else, you don‘t have the slightest clue about economics, I am sorry to tell you. Wages are a supply and demand function. They do not go up if there are unemployed people willing to accept the lower wage. But I have noticed that economic concepts are generally hard to grasp for liberal Democrats.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:05 pm

aviationaware wrote:
Tugger wrote:

We need to see some kind of income increase spread to the base in order to sustain the economy. So far we are not seeing that and it appears to be the opposite is occurring.

Taxes should have been kept stable with possibly some increases across the board (applied to both lower and higher wealth categories). In addition to restraint in growing cost of programs.

Tugg


Consumer spending is on an all time high. Nice try though. You are being taken for a ride by your Democrat friends.

Tax increases are a stupid idea. Public spending does not grow the economy sustainably. Creating jobs does. That‘s what this administration is doing, and keeps doing as cna be seen with new NAFTA. Real wages will only go up notably once there is full employment, and creating just that is Trump‘s priority right now. Subsequent wage growth is an automatism once that has been achieved. If you believe anything else, you don‘t have the slightest clue about economics, I am sorry to tell you. Wages are a supply and demand function. They do not go up if there are unemployed people willing to accept the lower wage. But I have noticed that economic concepts are generally hard to grasp for liberal Democrats.



Tax increases are not a stupid idea. They should be raised to help control growth and to pay for infrastructural needs to keep the economy going. Currently the Government has funded a get rich scheme for the wealthy at the expense of the workers .

The Tax cuts are not going to create meaningful growth. There is too much imbalance in the cuts. They will only prolong the time until the next recession when spending stops .
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
aviationaware
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Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:13 pm

There is no need to keep the economy going. It is running on full steam. Private investment is high, there is hardly any construction capacity right now for major infrastructure drives.

You are woefully ignorant about economics. There is no example in the history of the planet of sustainable growth created by tax raises. None.
 
Ken777
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Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:22 pm

The Tax Cut has not had a significant impact when needed (employment) because Obama's performance took it to Trump's starting point. Look at the long term charts (the ones starting with the Bikini Graph) and you can see the Trump is just continuing Obama's Performance. We now have a situation where finding good workers isn't easy, but that will change before long the the curve turns down hill.

Basically the Tax Cuts could be reversed out for people making over $200,000 a year and there would be no loss to the economy. I personally would like to see. honest studies by reputable economists of the impact of giving every one with a Social Security Number $50 a week. Cash to immediately put into the economy. Then tell Tim Cook at Apple and Mike Dell that the cash is available and time to start competing for it. Same for car makers, airlines, etc. Some people would spend it on groceries, some on eating out, some on medical bills, it would make it possible for some to buy a house, but it would kick up activity that would be long term.
 
aviationaware
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Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:37 pm

Ken777 wrote:
and you can see the Trump is just continuing Obama's Performance.


People with more expertise in the matter strongly disagree with your assessment.

http://thehill.com/opinion/finance/3689 ... or-economy
 
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Tugger
Posts: 10899
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Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:28 pm

aviationaware wrote:
Tugger wrote:

We need to see some kind of income increase spread to the base in order to sustain the economy. So far we are not seeing that and it appears to be the opposite is occurring.

Taxes should have been kept stable with possibly some increases across the board (applied to both lower and higher wealth categories). In addition to restraint in growing cost of programs.

Tugg


Consumer spending is on an all time high. Nice try though. You are being taken for a ride by your Democrat friends.

Tax increases are a stupid idea. Public spending does not grow the economy sustainably. Creating jobs does. That‘s what this administration is doing, and keeps doing as cna be seen with new NAFTA. Real wages will only go up notably once there is full employment, and creating just that is Trump‘s priority right now. Subsequent wage growth is an automatism once that has been achieved. If you believe anything else, you don‘t have the slightest clue about economics, I am sorry to tell you. Wages are a supply and demand function. They do not go up if there are unemployed people willing to accept the lower wage.

You are not reading the actual data correctly or understanding what I am saying. I did say that public spending should increase. I have said the opposite in fact.

Spending is up, yes, but that is due to debt being now at an all time high as well. It is more important and vastly more sustainable when spending in based on current money and not as debt. Debt now can stifle future spending unless there is an increase in real income. In addition savings in decreasing again, so people are sacrificing even more future money for debt now.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Tax reform win.

Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:58 am

Ken777 wrote:
The Tax Cut has not had a significant impact when needed (employment) because Obama's performance took it to Trump's starting point. Look at the long term charts (the ones starting with the Bikini Graph) and you can see the Trump is just continuing Obama's Performance. We now have a situation where finding good workers isn't easy, but that will change before long the the curve turns down hill.


The only credit Obama gets is by suppressing the economy so long with his recessive policies, it didn't take as much fuel for the economy to get cooking again. The current recovering economy is yet another indictment against Obama's presidency.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Tax reform win.

Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:32 am

aviationaware wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
and you can see the Trump is just continuing Obama's Performance.


People with more expertise in the matter strongly disagree with your assessment.

http://thehill.com/opinion/finance/3689 ... or-economy




So far, Democrats are winning the messaging war, using President Trump’s unpopularity to sour Americans on everything the White House does.

In a recent Quinnipiac poll, a record 66 percent of those surveyed graded the economy as “excellent” or “good” but 49 percent of those surveyed credited Obama while only 40 percent named Trump.

That poll, though, seems biased. Only 23 percent of those questioned were Republicans, while 34 percent described themselves as Democrats, and 38 percent said they were Independents. It also asked the questions in a way that appeared likely to elicit an anti-Trump response.



Sounds a little biased to me, Slanted questions, horror of horrors, we know the Republicans and the Buffoon would never slant anything. I never did see any mention of the trillion dollar tax giveaway for the wealthy. Twenty bucks a week for the Peons, millions and billions for the corporations which they are using to buy back stock. "Look you blind, hear you deaf"
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
aviationaware
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Re: Tax reform win.

Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:41 am

Win the messaging war all you want. As long as you keep sucking at elections, I couldn‘t care less about your propaganda victories.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Tax reform win.

Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:46 am

aviationaware wrote:
Win the messaging war all you want. As long as you keep sucking at elections, I couldn‘t care less about your propaganda victories.



Well, that sure put me in my place, show an intelligent reply by using a quote from the article, and what do we get back, a snit of a reply. I feel embarrassed to illicit such a nasty response. I will try harder next time to please you.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13761
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Tax reform win.

Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:09 am

WarRI1 wrote:
Sounds a little biased to me, Slanted questions, horror of horrors, we know the Republicans and the Buffoon would never slant anything. I never did see any mention of the trillion dollar tax giveaway for the wealthy. Twenty bucks a week for the Peons, millions and billions for the corporations which they are using to buy back stock. "Look you blind, hear you deaf"


It may just be a good supply of republicans being embarrassed to say they are republicans while that President is in office.

If you Google " how many republicans are embarrassed by Trump" you get replies roughly in line with with the numbers in that poll.
So it is probably just members of the republican party that are biased against Trump.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Tugger
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Re: Tax reform win.

Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:56 pm

Interestingly I finally read something that of Trump had done would have made me respect at least a tiny bit. In the new Woodward book he apparently wanted to raise the top income tax rate to 44%. That would have been a better idea than what happened.

While higher than I had in mind (I was thinking 41.5% and Hooray! I'd get to pay it...) it would have been in line with his promise to not benefit directly and would have offset the loss the cut produced elsewhere.

Unfortunately Cohn apparently talked him out of pushing for it (he could have survived easily, just explaining to his supporters).
https://www.businessinsider.com/woodwar ... ent-2018-9

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
A3801000
Posts: 562
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Re: Tax reform win.

Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:11 pm

Economy booming, near full employment but the debts soars 32%, well?

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/40604 ... nt-to-895b

'The federal deficit hit $895 billion in the first 11 months of fiscal 2018, an increase of $222 billion, or 32 percent, over the same period the previous year, according to the Congressional Budget Office (CBO).'

MAGA?
 
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Tugger
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Re: Tax reform win.

Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:13 pm

A3801000 wrote:
Economy booming, near full employment but the debts soars 32%, well?

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/40604 ... nt-to-895b

'The federal deficit hit $895 billion in the first 11 months of fiscal 2018, an increase of $222 billion, or 32 percent, over the same period the previous year, according to the Congressional Budget Office (CBO).'

MAGA?

MAGA.

Definitely. Not Republican, rather MAGA's trying to fake it as Republican.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
Flighty
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Re: Tax reform win.

Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:11 am

Tugger wrote:
What happened in Washington with the tax cut is exactly what the country did not need, nor was it prepared for. Instead of a stable growing strong economy with tax receipts to support current programs combined with Republican fiscal restraint, we instead have the mess we have now, no wage growth, increasing debt, companies still hoarding cash waiting for a crash of some kind. (And then you have the stupid trade war crap going on. While I actually do agree that confronting growing imbalances were needed, thee fact that Trump has handled it so poorly has created a worse situation.)

We need to see some kind of income increase spread to the base in order to sustain the economy. So far we are not seeing that and it appears to be the opposite is occurring.

Taxes should have been kept stable with possibly some increases across the board (applied to both lower and higher wealth categories). In addition to restraint in growing cost of programs.

Tugg


The only hope for wage growth is healthy businesses and a scarcity of workers. It's interesting that "mainstream" writings usually describe a "worker shortage" as some sort of terrible problem. It's like "affordable housing shortage." Kids also have a "candy shortage" that typically is constant throughout childhood.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Tax reform win.

Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:20 am

Flighty wrote:
The only hope for wage growth is healthy businesses and a scarcity of workers. .


workers are already scarce in many countries including the US, where real wages are still stuck.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Aesma
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Re: Tax reform win.

Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:25 pm

Without even mentioning economists, it seems the US government itself and its administration has no plan to lower the deficit and the debt. Usually governments do have a plan and fail. With no plan, we all know where this is going.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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casinterest
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Re: Tax reform win.

Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:22 pm

Tugger wrote:
A3801000 wrote:
Economy booming, near full employment but the debts soars 32%, well?

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/40604 ... nt-to-895b

'The federal deficit hit $895 billion in the first 11 months of fiscal 2018, an increase of $222 billion, or 32 percent, over the same period the previous year, according to the Congressional Budget Office (CBO).'

MAGA?

MAGA.

Definitely. Not Republican, rather MAGA's trying to fake it as Republican.

Tugg


The deficit hawks are so silent. Must not be any Republicans that care about saving money any more. Just tax cuts for their Rich donors.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Tax reform win.

Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:45 pm

Flighty wrote:
Tugger wrote:
What happened in Washington with the tax cut is exactly what the country did not need, nor was it prepared for. Instead of a stable growing strong economy with tax receipts to support current programs combined with Republican fiscal restraint, we instead have the mess we have now, no wage growth, increasing debt, companies still hoarding cash waiting for a crash of some kind. (And then you have the stupid trade war crap going on. While I actually do agree that confronting growing imbalances were needed, thee fact that Trump has handled it so poorly has created a worse situation.)

We need to see some kind of income increase spread to the base in order to sustain the economy. So far we are not seeing that and it appears to be the opposite is occurring.

Taxes should have been kept stable with possibly some increases across the board (applied to both lower and higher wealth categories). In addition to restraint in growing cost of programs.

Tugg


The only hope for wage growth is healthy businesses and a scarcity of workers. It's interesting that "mainstream" writings usually describe a "worker shortage" as some sort of terrible problem. It's like "affordable housing shortage." Kids also have a "candy shortage" that typically is constant throughout childhood.

Well I disagree somewhat as you are comparing some apples to some oranges and plums (or candied apples apparently).

Basically wage growth is stagnant because no one is willing to hire for more than their current rate and this is leading to some level of worker shortage as the economy is at or beyond full employment. In addition many workers have stepped back from the market (and not for some of the reasons I have heard but because many spouses that had to work during the recession have now quit as the economy and their spouses employment improved). This is because they do not want to be caught with a higher wage labor cost than their competitors and doubly so if the economy turns sour. So they forego new business and let others start new same wage cost businesses to support new business. There is a lot of concern about rising wages and how it will kill your competitiveness.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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Tugger
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Re: Tax reform win.

Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:50 pm

casinterest wrote:
The deficit hawks are so silent. Must not be any Republicans that care about saving money any more. Just tax cuts for their Rich donors.

Definitely less care about deficits now. It appears due to the fact that the MAGA's run the roost right now, the Trump voter base. And the Republican's don't dare touch the low income, and federal benefits that many of Trumps base count on. So cut taxes but spend more money, that is how MAGA's see it, want it.

On a side note about deficits, a lot of recent news on the record China trade surplus failed to account for fact that a lot of China purchases were aggressively pushed forward to try and beat the tariffs being threatened. So right now it is no surprise the trade deficit is at a record. We'll have to look to future number, likely next year to really see what impact the tariffs have on the deficit.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13761
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Re: Tax reform win.

Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:09 pm

Tugger wrote:
There is a lot of concern about rising wages and how it will kill your competitiveness.

Tugg


I think the concern rather is that the efficiency improvements to make higher wages affordable also cost money.
Several nations have higher manufacturing wages than the US, and all their economies seem to do pretty well, even without excessive deficit spending. Having 4.2% GDP growth is not all that impressive when the deficit is also 4.2% of the GDP.

https://www.conference-board.org/ilcpro ... m?id=38269

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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seb146
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Re: Tax reform win.

Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:49 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
The Tax Cut has not had a significant impact when needed (employment) because Obama's performance took it to Trump's starting point. Look at the long term charts (the ones starting with the Bikini Graph) and you can see the Trump is just continuing Obama's Performance. We now have a situation where finding good workers isn't easy, but that will change before long the the curve turns down hill.


The only credit Obama gets is by suppressing the economy so long with his recessive policies, it didn't take as much fuel for the economy to get cooking again. The current recovering economy is yet another indictment against Obama's presidency.


The economy is growing at the same rate as it was under Obama.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2 ... ic-growth/

Considering he started off with a strong economy that was made strong under Obama, as opposed to a huge recession left by GWB for Obama.

And, continued tax cuts and increase in spending. But, deficits don't matter unless a Democrat is in charge....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13761
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Tax reform win.

Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:59 am

seb146 wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
The Tax Cut has not had a significant impact when needed (employment) because Obama's performance took it to Trump's starting point. Look at the long term charts (the ones starting with the Bikini Graph) and you can see the Trump is just continuing Obama's Performance. We now have a situation where finding good workers isn't easy, but that will change before long the the curve turns down hill.


The only credit Obama gets is by suppressing the economy so long with his recessive policies, it didn't take as much fuel for the economy to get cooking again. The current recovering economy is yet another indictment against Obama's presidency.


The economy is growing at the same rate as it was under Obama.


MSPNWA seems to be under the impression that getting a loan paid out makes one rich. Without that Trumps GDP growth would be zero.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Tax reform win.

Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:52 am

You know, for such a win, Republicans are rather quiet about it. Their message is more about "socialism is bad", how X candidate "is for Nancy Pelosi", or how electing X candidate is "a return to the Obama years".

Kinda shows that after 2 years of unified control (and 4 years of running Congress), they really have nothing to show for it.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Tax reform win.

Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:03 am

seb146 wrote:
The economy is growing at the same rate as it was under Obama.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2 ... ic-growth/

Considering he started off with a strong economy that was made strong under Obama, as opposed to a huge recession left by GWB for Obama.

And, continued tax cuts and increase in spending. But, deficits don't matter unless a Democrat is in charge....


You have to be a special kind of person to speak such untruth. When did Obama reach 3% GDP growth on an annualized basis? Oh yeah, never. And that's with the benefit of a recessionary low point, record government debt spending, and two full terms. What the economy has done in such short order under Trump without such benefits speaks volumes about how anti-economy Democratic policies are. So the facts say you're wrong again. If you want to keep ignoring facts, please keep them to yourself, and don't do a disservice to your fellow citizens by leading them astray.
 
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WarRI1
Posts: 14195
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Re: Tax reform win.

Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:15 am

MSPNWA wrote:
seb146 wrote:
The economy is growing at the same rate as it was under Obama.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2 ... ic-growth/

Considering he started off with a strong economy that was made strong under Obama, as opposed to a huge recession left by GWB for Obama.

And, continued tax cuts and increase in spending. But, deficits don't matter unless a Democrat is in charge....


You have to be a special kind of person to speak such untruth. When did Obama reach 3% GDP growth on an annualized basis? Oh yeah, never. And that's with the benefit of a recessionary low point, record government debt spending, and two full terms. What the economy has done in such short order under Trump without such benefits speaks volumes about how anti-economy Democratic policies are. So the facts say you're wrong again. If you want to keep ignoring facts, please keep them to yourself, and don't do a disservice to your fellow citizens by leading them astray.


When did Obama give 2.5 trillion in tax cuts to the corporations, like the last two Republican Presidents. he presided in the W. H. when the recovery and jobs started. Hey! a trillion here, a trillion there should help something, I know a measly 20 bucks a week did not do much for the worker. A funny thing also, the economy is flying, but for who? The trade deficit seems to be climbing, many low income jobs are plentiful also. Nothing like a career in minimum wage jobs, Wow!
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Tax reform win.

Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:27 am

MSPNWA wrote:
seb146 wrote:
The economy is growing at the same rate as it was under Obama.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2 ... ic-growth/

Considering he started off with a strong economy that was made strong under Obama, as opposed to a huge recession left by GWB for Obama.

And, continued tax cuts and increase in spending. But, deficits don't matter unless a Democrat is in charge....


You have to be a special kind of person to speak such untruth. When did Obama reach 3% GDP growth on an annualized basis? Oh yeah, never. And that's with the benefit of a recessionary low point, record government debt spending, and two full terms. What the economy has done in such short order under Trump without such benefits speaks volumes about how anti-economy Democratic policies are. So the facts say you're wrong again. If you want to keep ignoring facts, please keep them to yourself, and don't do a disservice to your fellow citizens by leading them astray.



Your Trump cult needs to understand where there GDP growth is coming from.

Trump and his cult are on track to add as much debt in 4 years as was added in 8 years under Obama.


https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-p ... nt-3306296

"Donald Trump: As projected in the FY 2019 budget, Trump plans to add $8.282 trillion, a 41-percent increase from the $20.245 trillion debt at the end of Obama's last budget for FY 2017. He will add almost as much in four years as Obama did in eight. That would also make him the second-biggest contributor to the debt in history in just one term.

FY 2021 - $1.119 trillion.
FY 2020 - $1.198 trillion.
FY 2019 - $1.225 trillion.
FY 2018 - $1.233 trillion.

"
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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seb146
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Re: Tax reform win.

Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:03 am

MSPNWA wrote:
seb146 wrote:
The economy is growing at the same rate as it was under Obama.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2 ... ic-growth/

Considering he started off with a strong economy that was made strong under Obama, as opposed to a huge recession left by GWB for Obama.

And, continued tax cuts and increase in spending. But, deficits don't matter unless a Democrat is in charge....


You have to be a special kind of person to speak such untruth. When did Obama reach 3% GDP growth on an annualized basis? Oh yeah, never. And that's with the benefit of a recessionary low point, record government debt spending, and two full terms. What the economy has done in such short order under Trump without such benefits speaks volumes about how anti-economy Democratic policies are. So the facts say you're wrong again. If you want to keep ignoring facts, please keep them to yourself, and don't do a disservice to your fellow citizens by leading them astray.


Obama used the word "who" instead of "whom" so he is the worst ever. That is what you are saying. Just keep putting qualifiers out there. At some point, people will give up out of frustration.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Tugger
Posts: 10899
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Re: Tax reform win.

Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:32 am

casinterest wrote:
are on track to add as much debt in 4 years as was added in 8 years

Republican debt is OK. MAGA debt is even more OK. It not really debt, its profit.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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Tugger
Posts: 10899
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:33 am

casinterest wrote:
are on track to add as much debt in 4 years as was added in 8 years

Republican debt is OK. MAGA debt is even more OK. It not really debt, its profit.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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casinterest
Posts: 12153
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:17 pm

The GOP can't even sell their Tax Cuts as benefitting the middle class anymore.

"https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-20/internal-gop-poll-we-ve-lost-the-messaging-battle-on-tax-cuts"

For a party that gives 85+% approval to Trump, only having a +38 point on this issue is a bad sell.


Meanwhile, Trump's tariffs are about to start costing everyone more to shop.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-t ... ods-2018-9


It looks like Trump and the GOP have found a way to really put the screws to the middle class and poverty class.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 12153
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Re: Tax reform win.

Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:29 pm

Hi all,
From Oct 1 2017-Sept 30 2018 the National Debt rose to 21.5 Trillion. That is an increase of 1.2+ Trillion from last year

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... -year-2018

Per the BLS there are 161,926,000 in the labor force.


https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t01.htm

That is an increase of over 7400 dollars per employed person in debt this year.

How many of you got a 7,400 dollar raise to pay for all this spending? How many of you got a tax deduction large enough to match this accelerated spending?

The GOP cut taxes this year , and increased spending. The national debt will continue to spiral.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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einsteinboricua
Posts: 8602
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Tax reform win.

Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:24 pm

My company just announced cutbacks on benefits, to the point where we now have to pay for the HDHP (which the company gave for free). None of this should be outrageous until you consider that the company (like all others) received a major tax cut and is swimming in cash. What does it want to do with the cash? Buy back stock. In the meantime, my paycheck increased by just $20.

So remind me again how this is supposed to provide relief?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13761
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Tax reform win.

Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:13 am

casinterest wrote:
That is an increase of over 7400 dollars per employed person in debt this year.

How many of you got a 7,400 dollar raise to pay for all this spending? How many of you got a tax deduction large enough to match this accelerated spending?

The GOP cut taxes this year , and increased spending. The national debt will continue to spiral.


Amazing how little of an economic return all that money bought.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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casinterest
Posts: 12153
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Re: Tax reform win.

Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:00 pm

https://thinkprogress.org/wage-growth-f ... d96ece170/


Where is your RAISE ?

Did you get one over 7400 this year? Probably not, but companies made out like bank.


"According to new data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, worker wages have been essentially flat since the GOP tax bill was passed in December.

The average hourly wage for production and nonsupervisory employees crept up from $9.25 in August 2018 to $9.27 in September. However, the July figure matches numbers from the same month in 2017 — effectively meaning there was no growth from the year prior. From September 2017 to September 2018, real average hourly earnings did increase 0.4 percent, per the release.
"
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
A3801000
Posts: 562
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2016 5:12 pm

Re: Tax reform win.

Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:52 pm

And this is how it looks like:

Image
 
wingman
Posts: 4019
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:07 am

Based on recent history this is how Republicans roll. They take perfectly good economies handed to them by Democratic Presidents, bitching and screaming 24/7 about communism to slash taxes, grab as much money as they possibly can for themselves, the 1% and corporations, and then turn it all into a massive shithole for the next Democratic President to come in and fix it. Go back 25 years and tell me I ain't lyin.
 
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Tugger
Posts: 10899
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:38 pm

The success of Trump and MAGA budgeting continues:
The U.S. budget deficit grew to $779 billion in Donald Trump’s first full fiscal year as president, the highest since 2012 amid tax cuts and spending increases.

The budget gap for the 12 months through September was 17 percent wider than the same 12-month period a year earlier, as spending rose 3.2 percent and revenue gained just 0.4 percent, according to a Treasury Department report released Monday. The deficit as a share of total economic output was 3.9 percent in fiscal 2018, up 0.4 percentage point from the prior year. The government’s fiscal year runs from Oct. 1 to Sept. 30.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -year-high

And we are heading for $1T in deficit next year!

Image

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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einsteinboricua
Posts: 8602
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Re: Tax reform win.

Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:28 pm

These numbers are fake..it's Mnuchin trying to make Trump look bad.

#MAGA #DeficitsDontMatter #ItsObamasFaultAnywaySomehow
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13761
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Tax reform win.

Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:00 am

Tugger wrote:
And we are heading for $1T in deficit next year!


And rising interest rates on top of that. So, if you are rich:

- you got a huge tax cut
- you can invest that in treasury bonds
- have poorer tax payers pay your income without doing anything for it, with the government being your Moscow debt collector.

= free money for the rich. Donald Trump is Robin Hood... in a mirror universe.

Debt situation is also beginning to look Greek.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Tugger
Posts: 10899
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:39 pm

Gee no surprise here:
McConnell Blames Entitlements, Not GOP, for Rising Deficits

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... g-deficits

The new MAGA mentality and McConnell's fear of course create this fantasy. Morons.


Yes, excessive entitlements cause excess spend which can lead to deficits..... HOWEVER.... Then cut the friggin' entitlement spending! They control the House, Senate and Presidency!

But they don't. Instead like irresponsible children who quit their jobs and just say "Fine, let anyone try to get blood from a stone! Hah! That'll show everyone that I borrowed money from how stupid they were...I'll be fine."

Instead of reducing budgets, paying down debt, controlling costs, they decrease federal inflows and increase spending.

Morons.

We need actual Republican's that can think and work with others in Congress.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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casinterest
Posts: 12153
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:44 pm

Tugger wrote:
Gee no surprise here:
McConnell Blames Entitlements, Not GOP, for Rising Deficits

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... g-deficits

The new MAGA mentality and McConnell's fear of course create this fantasy. Morons.


Yes, excessive entitlements cause excess spend which can lead to deficits..... HOWEVER.... Then cut the friggin' entitlement spending! They control the House, Senate and Presidency!

But they don't. Instead like irresponsible children who quit their jobs and just say "Fine, let anyone try to get blood from a stone! Hah! That'll show everyone that I borrowed money from how stupid they were...I'll be fine."

Instead of reducing budgets, paying down debt, controlling costs, they decrease federal inflows and increase spending.

Morons.

We need actual Republican's that can think and work with others in Congress.

Tugg


Mcconnell is like a fat guy that says we wants to lose weight. He buys the Gym Memborship, but then goes out and orders a double whopper with fires and a coke and wonders why his waist keeps expanding .
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
jetero
Posts: 4673
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:56 pm

casinterest wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Gee no surprise here:
McConnell Blames Entitlements, Not GOP, for Rising Deficits

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... g-deficits

The new MAGA mentality and McConnell's fear of course create this fantasy. Morons.


Yes, excessive entitlements cause excess spend which can lead to deficits..... HOWEVER.... Then cut the friggin' entitlement spending! They control the House, Senate and Presidency!

But they don't. Instead like irresponsible children who quit their jobs and just say "Fine, let anyone try to get blood from a stone! Hah! That'll show everyone that I borrowed money from how stupid they were...I'll be fine."

Instead of reducing budgets, paying down debt, controlling costs, they decrease federal inflows and increase spending.

Morons.

We need actual Republican's that can think and work with others in Congress.

Tugg


Mcconnell is like a fat guy that says we wants to lose weight. He buys the Gym Memborship, but then goes out and orders a double whopper with fires and a coke and wonders why his waist keeps expanding .


If you think that's bad, have you heard about Elizabeth Warren?
 
wingman
Posts: 4019
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

Re: Tax reform win.

Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:00 pm

I always wonder when the core GOP dumbshits are going to figure out that their leaders and Presidents are laughing all the way to the country club at their expense but they never do, and I guess that's because they're dumbshits. Here's McConnell actually laying out this epic bullshit and he controls the White House, Senate, House, Supreme Court, majority of governorships and majority of state-level houses. What more could this fat slob of an asshole actually need to fix his answer that 2+11=3? And where in the hell did the Tea Party get to? They used to go apeshit when Obama was saving the global economy and now you don't hear a peep. I guess they donned their white hoods and found a new pastime.

I tell you man, and the Economist just confirmed it in this week's edition, the piper cometh once again and like I said above, Republicans will yet again taken a perfectly good economy and enriched themselves and their lobbyist 1% in a historic display of greed that will ruin this country for a decade. Between extreme gerrymandering and 35MM Americans nearly too stupid to breathe it's close to hopeless.

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