Delta latest company facing political and social media headwinds in China after gaffe in listing Taiwan and Tibet as independent countries on its website.

China's civil aviation regulator has contacted Delta and instructed the company to rectify the issue immediately, according to a notice posted on the agency's website Friday. "In the meantime, the Civil Aviation Administration of China demands that Delta Air Lines apologize immediately and publicly," it said.

Delta said it recognizes the seriousness of the issue and took immediate steps to resolve it. Delta issued a public apology on Friday, saying it had made a “grave mistake”.
"It was an inadvertent error with no business or political intention, and we apologize deeply for the mistake," the company said in a statement. "As one of our most important markets, we are fully committed to China and to our Chinese customers."



Delta Air Lines, Zara join Marriott in China’s bad books over Tibet, Taiwan gaffes
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/ ... over-tibet

Delta flies into China trouble over Tibet and Taiwan
http://www.kyma.com/lifestyle/travel/de ... /684866975

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Begs question - does no one with geopolitical awareness do internal QC to avoid things like this becoming public?

Oh for gods sake, hardly an issue. You seriously want someone with “geopolitical” awareness to review everything the company does? It’s a private company, not Air Force One. A political gaffe but Tibet is a separate country regardless what the Chinese want you to believe.

obelau24 wrote:

Oh for gods sake, hardly an issue. You seriously want someone with “geopolitical” awareness to review everything the company does? It’s a private company, not Air Force One. A political gaffe but Tibet is a separate country regardless what the Chinese want you to believe.

It is an issue if you deal business in China and want to continue to do so. Delta does not have some universal right allowing them to fly there.

Delta was beyond stupid to do this and its not hard to understand why China flipped out. Yes China politically and morally (IMHO) is in the wrong for the horrors they inflicted on Tibet and are in denial about Taiwan but China's views have been clear forever.

If companies want to do business with China, they have to play by China's worldview. Since theirs is the second largest (and within 20 years or so largest) economy on the planet, Delta doesn't want to do anything to piss them off.

Some may think its "hardly an issue." Ask a Chinese national that question and you'll likely get a far different answer.

Well, not as bad as Marriott which was caught listing Hong Kong and Macau as independent nations.

But still pretty amateurish move by Delta who certainly should know better. Poor form to incite such negative attention from both the Chinese public and government.

Yes pretty ignorant move by the companies that got called out. Certainly creating a public firestorm in China cant come to any good for them.

I would have imagined global airline like DL would have known better, or atleast had a process in place that website listings are triple vetted including by the legal department and others in the know.

From a objective point of view, very petty, and quite childish reaction.

Bottom line is when you do business overseas, you follow their rules and stay mindful of their local sensitivities and issues.

While this indeed might be a totally innocent mistake, it's over quite an inflammatory issue that should have been caught internally and avoided entirely.

One thing I am puzzled by is why people list Tibet as an independent nation when it has never been independent? From the early days to the Qing dynasty, the Republic to modern day PRC, it is always part of China. For Chinese Taipei, it can be a slight cock-up for Chinese as for whether it 中国台北 Zhongguo Taibei or 中华台北 Zhonghua Taibei. For Hong Kong and Macao, they should have put SAR which indicates it a region of China.

Countries should always be careful when describing other nations, you only have to remember about Puerto Rico, Kosovo or the Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas).

obelau24 wrote:

Oh for gods sake, hardly an issue. You seriously want someone with “geopolitical” awareness to review everything the company does? It’s a private company, not Air Force One. A political gaffe but Tibet is a separate country regardless what the Chinese want you to believe.

What are you talking about? Chinese government and the troops control Tibet completely. Same law, same currency, completely free movement between Tibet and other Chinese provinces.

taiwan and Tibet completely separate cases. Even hk is more like its own country than Tibet.

Atlwarrior wrote:

From a objective point of view, very petty, and quite childish reaction.

If DL wants to be more than a local carrier they need to be world aware. Obviously they aren’t with this lack of awareness.

Atlwarrior wrote:

From a objective point of view, very petty, and quite childish reaction.

If you ever follow Chinese netizens, it's nothing new. They are "outraged" every time anyone say anything bad about China, and don't you dare saying HK, Macau, Taiwan, etc. are independent.

Netizens in Hong Kong (and I believe Taiwan also) called them having "Heart made of Glass" just b/c how easily offended they are (The equivalent of "Snowflake" in US if you want to go there ).

As for DL itself - I would think it's an oversight. But considering how easily people (everywhere) are offended nowaday by the smallest of things, PR nightmare is the last thing you want.

People are too brittle these days. WHO CARES.

Delta should just tell China to take a hike.

Actually the only thing wrong is the Tibet listing. Tibet is part of China and there's no border controls between Tibet and e.g. Shanghai like state to state. Taiwan has ALWAYS been independent and uses its own currency, PART OF THE US Visa Waiver Program and needs its own page on delta.com. Or Delta can do what they do in the Olympics and label Taiwan without its flag or name it as "Chinese Taipei". Yeah people in Mainland China are shocked to know that Taiwan is part of the US VISA Waiver program when I tell them...

Since we are all in agreement that DL did this one has to wonder where and how many heads will roll, board level, management level, PR / Marketing Dept. etc etc etc.
So far no one seems to think that this was done by one disgruntled employee with no company backing, so someone at the company should be held responsible and put to the sword.

Say what you will about the response to DL's mistake, but the Chinese people take great pride in national unity, hence their reaction to any perceived slights that suggest a disunited China. Someone at DL definitely made a mistake, and DL's response says as much. That said ...

mcdu wrote:

If DL wants to be more than a local carrier they need to be world aware. Obviously they aren’t with this lack of awareness.

I find comments like this inciting just for inciting's sake.

x1234 wrote:

Actually the only thing wrong is the Tibet listing. Tibet is part of China and there's no border controls between Tibet and e.g. Shanghai like state to state. Taiwan has ALWAYS been independent and uses its own currency, PART OF THE US Visa Waiver Program and needs its own page on delta.com. Or Delta can do what they do in the Olympics and label Taiwan without its flag or name it as "Chinese Taipei". Yeah people in Mainland China are shocked to know that Taiwan is part of the US VISA Waiver program when I tell them...

If you want to really go there, it's a really complicated issue. Depending on which side of political spectrum you're talking to in Taiwan, either they lean towards independence (Pan-Green/DPP) or claim CCP as an illegitimate government occupying mainland (Pan-Blue/KMT, at least the old school one). The official stance for the most part is "one China", it's a matter of which China (Republic of China aka Taiwan or PR China) is the "one" legitimate government.

In another word, it's technically not "Always" been independent, it's de facto independent, but like I said, it's way more complicated than that. For all purpose other than political recognition, yes, they're independent. But officially, they're not.

Super80Fan wrote:

Delta should just tell China to take a hike.

If only things are so easy. At least DL is lucky to not have you as their COO or something like that. At the end of the day, money talks, and (mainland) China is a huge market full of gold mines that's just hard to ignored. And like it or not, if you're in ANY business, you'll have to deal with unreasonable, unpleasant customers.

x1234 wrote:

Actually the only thing wrong is the Tibet listing. Tibet is part of China and there's no border controls between Tibet and e.g. Shanghai like state to state. Taiwan has ALWAYS been independent and uses its own currency, PART OF THE US Visa Waiver Program and needs its own page on delta.com. Or Delta can do what they do in the Olympics and label Taiwan without its flag or name it as "Chinese Taipei". Yeah people in Mainland China are shocked to know that Taiwan is part of the US VISA Waiver program when I tell them...

That's not accurate. Taiwan Had been under control of Dutch and Japanese at various times but it was definitely part of china in most part of modern history. Officially, both side of straits recognize one china. It's just a matter of who is legitimate ruler.

And if you ever visit Taiwan and south china, very similar societies. I would be shocked if Taiwan stays independent for another 50 years.

Hk is another different issue. Everyone knows that Beijing is in control. They don't like it, but that's just the way things are.

If my firm has dealings in the region , I would check my website.

I cannot believe that is not being checked in some way. Regardless of how you feel on the issue, you must follow the laws of the country you are operating in. I don't think people in the western world understand the sense of pride Chinese citizens have of their country and suggesting fractures such as Tibet, Inner Mongolia (and all the AR's of China), Hong Kong, Macau, and Taiwan are taken very seriously. The PRC is not known to take matters like this lightly, hopefully DL and other airlines learn a lesson from this.

Super80Fan wrote:

Delta should just tell China to take a hike.

That would end well

cvgComair wrote:

hopefully DL and other airlines learn a lesson from this.

What other airlines have made this mistake?

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:

People are too brittle these days. WHO CARES.

The Chinese do and that is where they are attempting to do business. Cultural awareness is a real thing no matter how insensitive we are perceived globally with our current leadership. There is a large world outside of Virginia Ave. that cares about things like this.

Short list of who Delta has pissed off:

US Department of Commerce - Bombardier deal.
US Department of State - ME3 fight (Only US allies in the region not counting Israel)
Boeing - Ex-Im fight, ME3 fight, Bombardier deal
GE - Ex-Im fight
Customers - changes to FF program (among others)
Conservatives everywhere - Public stands on social Issues
Now China, a critically important growing market.

I'm sure there are more, but the real reason is why? I mean its one thing to advocate for your interests, yet another to do so in an offensive way (See Trump, Donald J.) Their aggressive positions are all the more ironic given their touchy-feely political stances on social issues. Who are they going to offend next?

Please stick to discussing the aviation side of this story. Political commentary belongs in the Non Aviation Forum .

✈️ atcsundevil

mcdu wrote:

cvgComair wrote:

hopefully DL and other airlines learn a lesson from this.

What other airlines have made this mistake?

I meant for them to be more careful in the future.

atcsundevil wrote:

Please stick to discussing the aviation side of this story. Political commentary belongs in the Non Aviation Forum .

✈️ atcsundevil

Er...

Sightseer wrote:

the Chinese people take great pride in national unity, hence their reaction to any perceived slights that suggest a disunited China.

I'd be willing to bet at least 90% of Chinese don't have a clue who or what "Delta" is.

Super80Fan wrote:

Delta should just tell China to take a hike.

As much as I disagree with the World kowtowing to the "One China" bullshit, if DL did tell China to take a hike, then China would probably tell Delta to do likewise.

smallvoyageur wrote:

Countries should always be careful when describing other nations, you only have to remember about Puerto Rico, Kosovo or the Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas).

Of course, but China is a bit unique in its harsh response. I mean, Argentina will not make you shut down their local website and apologize profusely if a business organization calls the islands Falklands instead of Malvinas or something like that.

Can't speak to Delta, but in the case of Marriott International many business organizations touch the corporate website and its international versions. Furthermore, properties can enter their own content about their specific properties directly into a content database that feeds many downstream applications. Would take a lot of time and effort to patrol content, Stuff like this was bound to happen - and it happened with the Marriott Rewards group.

It won't happen again - for sure.

OMG you all probably call Hawaii a part of the United States when legally it is wrong,it was an illegal overthrow of the Hawaiian monarchy(Thanks to Sanford B. Dole)yes the DOLE company that has raped Hawaii clean.An illegal annexation of Hawaii was wrong so really Hawaii is part of or still the Hawaiian Kingdom.Just saying theres conflict every where in this world but you can't get mad at someone just cause they didn't know just educate them.Anyways since DL is pretty big in china they will apologize just like Bill Clinton did to the Hawaiian People 50 plus years later...

Part of the problem is likely as many in the American public see Tibet, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau by those names, not by longer, more formal and 'correct' name the PRC uses, as well as separate non-state territories much like the USA's Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico, and others. That is likely part of the mentality of those that set up the websites, including using pre-packaged elements that do show those PRC entities as separate or under their 'western' names.

scbriml wrote:

atcsundevil wrote:

Please stick to discussing the aviation side of this story. Political commentary belongs in the Non Aviation Forum .

✈️ atcsundevil

Er...

I think the topic was in Civ Av when I posted this — if not, I misread the forum placement.

tphuang wrote:

[...], completely free movement between Tibet and other Chinese provinces.

Not true for foreigner travelling between the two area, I believe

scbriml wrote:

Sightseer wrote:

the Chinese people take great pride in national unity, hence their reaction to any perceived slights that suggest a disunited China.

I'd be willing to bet at least 90% of Chinese don't have a clue who or what "Delta" is.

But then those who do know what Delta is are those that do fly and it cannot be said that they won't feel the same as others

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:

People are too brittle these days. WHO CARES.

Obviously you have been skipping (rightfully!) the threads one here argiung wheter EWR is a New York airport . . .

Super80Fan wrote:

Delta should just tell China to take a hike.

A brilliant reaction, what do you think China might do in return? Delta is a company, China is a country, in the end not in the same league.

c933103 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

[...], completely free movement between Tibet and other Chinese provinces.

Not true for foreigner travelling between the two area, I believe

Correct, you must get a separate travel permit to visit Tibet and you are not allowed to travel on your own outside Lhasa. There is certainly not free movement between Tibet and the rest of China.

cvgComair wrote:

c933103 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

[...], completely free movement between Tibet and other Chinese provinces.

Not true for foreigner travelling between the two area, I believe

Correct, you must get a separate travel permit to visit Tibet and you are not allowed to travel on your own outside Lhasa. There is certainly not free movement between Tibet and the rest of China.

That's for foreigners. Any tibetans can move to other part of china and vice versa. There is no restrictions, because it's in the same country.

And there are plenty of Chinese expats who I know have traveled to Tibet with no extra permit needed.

janders wrote:

Yes pretty ignorant move by the companies that got called out. Certainly creating a public firestorm in China cant come to any good for them..

It was probably just a mistake. If it wasn't, I applaude them. Everyone that stops doing business with the PRC, or gives them the finger, is doing the right thing.

Firestorm? If they want a firestorm, The can put a documentary about the Tianamen Massaker in their in flight magazine and IFE.

China isn't going to be the biggest world economy for any hard reasons, they only do so because since Nixon everybody is not just bending over, they hand them the lube as well.

One more reason to fly Delta, they are a good airline too.

Best regards
Thomas

scbriml wrote:

atcsundevil wrote:

Please stick to discussing the aviation side of this story. Political commentary belongs in the Non Aviation Forum .

✈️ atcsundevil

Er...

Sightseer wrote:

the Chinese people take great pride in national unity, hence their reaction to any perceived slights that suggest a disunited China.

I'd be willing to bet at least 90% of Chinese don't have a clue who or what "Delta" is.

Super80Fan wrote:

Delta should just tell China to take a hike.

As much as I disagree with the World kowtowing to the "One China" bullshit, if DL did tell China to take a hike, then China would probably tell Delta to do likewise.

Agree with all of scbriml's points. It is too bad we have to bow down to China regarding Taiwan. There is no denying that Taiwan is a completely separate country. If you don't believe me, then ask a member of the government in Taipei. And yes, probably 90% of the Chinese population has never heard of Delta Air Lines. Yet. On the plus side, this goof has probably made more Chinese aware of Delta lol.

DDR wrote:

Agree with all of scbriml's points. It is too bad we have to bow down to China regarding Taiwan. There is no denying that Taiwan is a completely separate country. If you don't believe me, then ask a member of the government in Taipei.

Or the people living there.
It's bad enough that embassy are in Bejing and not in Taipei, where any democratics countries embassy belongs.

The way I see it, we can tell China to take a hike now, where it hurts a little, or wait 20 more years and it really hurts... or the PRC citizens tell their local junta to take a hike, and elect a government.

Best regards
Thomas

tommy1808 wrote:

DDR wrote:

Agree with all of scbriml's points. It is too bad we have to bow down to China regarding Taiwan. There is no denying that Taiwan is a completely separate country. If you don't believe me, then ask a member of the government in Taipei.

Or the people living there.
It's bad enough that embassy are in Bejing and not in Taipei, where any democratics countries embassy belongs.

The way I see it, we can tell China to take a hike now, where it hurts a little, or wait 20 more years and it really hurts... or the PRC citizens tell their local junta to take a hike, and elect a government.

Best regards
Thomas

I agree with you tommy. What would be really great is if we could get Americans to stop buying cheaply made products from China. Without exports, the whole Chinese economy would come crashing down.

DDR wrote:

I agree with you tommy. What would be really great is if we could get Americans to stop buying cheaply made products from China. Without exports, the whole Chinese economy would come crashing down.

Yup.. want China a democracy? Put stuff back on the shelf if it says "made in China".
So many "it's so hard to life without stuff made in China" documentaries fail to mentions that eliminating 80 or 90% of the made in China stuff is easy and doesn't cost extra money.

Best regards
Thomas

What is the Chinese government doing? Going on airlines websites to make sure Taiwan isn't considered an separate country?

I'm sure there are other airlines that list Taiwan as an separate country who don't get in any trouble, or not even noticed at all.

Also, the Chinese government does some weird things as well. For example, KL needs an Asia brand to fly to Taiwan while AF, TK, and EK don't seem to need it. They just launched TPE and they didn't mind at all.

NichCage wrote:

What is the Chinese government doing? Going on airlines websites to make sure Taiwan isn't considered an separate country?

That is in essence what they do. Cry out against each and everything that may imply that Bejing ain't the only government of China or that Taiwan may be a country in its own right.

Also, the Chinese government does some weird things as well. For example, KL needs an Asia brand to fly to Taiwan while AF, TK, and EK don't seem to need it. They just launched TPE and they didn't mind at all.

AF used to be AF asia too. As was BA or Swiasair. Necessity probably depends on how much the airline is willing to dish out in bribes and how important the carriers home country is to the Bejing Junta.

Best regards
Thomas

dlflynhayn wrote:

OMG you all probably call Hawaii a part of the United States when legally it is wrong,it was an illegal overthrow of the Hawaiian monarchy(Thanks to Sanford B. Dole)yes the DOLE company that has raped Hawaii clean.An illegal annexation of Hawaii was wrong so really Hawaii is part of or still the Hawaiian Kingdom.Just saying theres conflict every where in this world but you can't get mad at someone just cause they didn't know just educate them.Anyways since DL is pretty big in china they will apologize just like Bill Clinton did to the Hawaiian People 50 plus years later...

Not a good parallel because so few people care. If some airline mis-lists HNL as "The Kingdom of Hawaii" 99% of Americans would mock them, not be indigent special snowflakes like the PRC is about Taiwan.

NichCage wrote:

Also, the Chinese government does some weird things as well. For example, KL needs an Asia brand to fly to Taiwan while AF, TK, and EK don't seem to need it. They just launched TPE and they didn't mind at all.

They don't need it anymore, but KLM is very cosy with the Chinese and gets you a very favourable routing over China on the way to Taipeh.

According to Chinese media report, among members of Star alliance, Skyteam, and Oneworld, there are at least 24 different airlines listing Hong Kong/Macau/Taiwan as a country on various parts of their site (including, for example, member registration page or comment and complaint page), includes:
* United AIrlines
* KLM
* Air France
* Aeroflot
* Saudia
* Austrian
* QANTAS
* LATAM
* Air Berlin
* Brussels Airlines
* Finnair
* Asiana
* Air Canada
* Qatar
* American
* JAL
* Swiss Air
* Turkish Airlines
* S7 Airlines
* Air India
* Royal Jordanian
* Air New Zealand
* SriLankan Airlines
The report specifically singled out Austrian Airlines for adding (Republic of China) next to the entry Taiwan.

NichCage wrote:

What is the Chinese government doing? Going on airlines websites to make sure Taiwan isn't considered an separate country?

I'm sure there are other airlines that list Taiwan as an separate country who don't get in any trouble, or not even noticed at all.

Also, the Chinese government does some weird things as well. For example, KL needs an Asia brand to fly to Taiwan while AF, TK, and EK don't seem to need it. They just launched TPE and they didn't mind at all.

CAAC has already demanded all foreign airlines flying into the country to survey their own site, app and other advertising materials in order to check and correct any part of the site that erroneously listed Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan as a country as well as other situation that does not match the Chinese law. CAAC said they will check the site of airlines afterwards and enforce further measures against airlines that do not comply with the requirement according to rules and laws.

zakuivcustom wrote:

Super80Fan wrote:

Delta should just tell China to take a hike.

If only things are so easy. At least DL is lucky to not have you as their COO or something like that. At the end of the day, money talks, and (mainland) China is a huge market full of gold mines that's just hard to ignored. And like it or not, if you're in ANY business, you'll have to deal with unreasonable, unpleasant customers.

For an airline that wants to tap into lucrative markets, Delta really doesn’t care anywhere as much about China as they say they do. They serve PVG, possibly PEK, and that’s about it. That’s “commitment” in a nutshell.

neomax wrote:

zakuivcustom wrote:

Super80Fan wrote:

Delta should just tell China to take a hike.

If only things are so easy. At least DL is lucky to not have you as their COO or something like that. At the end of the day, money talks, and (mainland) China is a huge market full of gold mines that's just hard to ignored. And like it or not, if you're in ANY business, you'll have to deal with unreasonable, unpleasant customers.

For an airline that wants to tap into lucrative markets, Delta really doesn’t care anywhere as much about China as they say they do. They serve PVG, possibly PEK, and that’s about it. That’s “commitment” in a nutshell.

The arrogance of China is what you get after 40 years of enriching a country who would destroy you if possible. We have enriched them, emboldened them to a point where they challenge us militarily and economically. They show their true colors every time, and yet we continue to reward them while screwing over our own workers. A real brilliant strategy.

neomax wrote:

zakuivcustom wrote:

Super80Fan wrote:

Delta should just tell China to take a hike.

If only things are so easy. At least DL is lucky to not have you as their COO or something like that. At the end of the day, money talks, and (mainland) China is a huge market full of gold mines that's just hard to ignored. And like it or not, if you're in ANY business, you'll have to deal with unreasonable, unpleasant customers.

For an airline that wants to tap into lucrative markets, Delta really doesn’t care anywhere as much about China as they say they do. They serve PVG, possibly PEK, and that’s about it. That’s “commitment” in a nutshell.

There's the DL's investment into MU also. But yeah, as someone put it, many people in China probably never even heard of Delta to begin with