loisencroach
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2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:34 pm

The list of cities for the 2nd Amazon headquarters has been released and the only city or area to NOT have nonstop service to SEA is CMH. PIT is on the list and it's possible that they are because of Alaska's recent SEA-PIT announcement. Word was that a prerequisite for any of these cities was nonstop service to SEA. 1) How did Columbus make the list, and 2) Has anybody heard of any plans for AS at CMH?
 
mict
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:36 pm

Pretty sure that if Amazon chooses Columbus as HQ2, AS will announce CMH regardless of if they were even considering it today.
 
Jshank83
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:40 pm

I don't think anything except maybe size was a prerequisite. They have to know routes will come if they choose a city.
 
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boscmh
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:43 pm

Lol. If CMH is chosen, multiple carriers would announce the route almost instantly. Come on...
 
FSDan
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:53 pm

The list of finalists is still pretty broad... For example, I'd be very surprised to see LA, Columbus, Newark, or New York get HQ2.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
stlgph
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:01 pm

Columbus shouldn't be a surprise. Cost of living, easy to get around, accessibility to major highways, an airport which can easily accommodate additional air service, as necessary, accessibility to a number of universities for new-hires and graduates within the immediate area, and easy to access throughout the state, a nice reputation for being a good place to live etc. etc., a number of factors are at play here.

The lack of 1 daily nonstop to Seattle is equal to getting one fry in your order without salt.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:10 pm

boscmh wrote:
Lol. If CMH is chosen, multiple carriers would announce the route almost instantly. Come on...


IMO if CMH is chosen, you would not only see JUST SEA-CMH being added. I'm actually thinking that they may actually get a TATL flight :rotfl:

Personal opinion is that it'll be Atlanta, followed by Dallas. Wildcard would be Toronto. Austin, Raleigh, or Nashville I would say are above Columbus OH. Of course, since I live in Indy area right now, I would be rooting for that also, although I'm highly doubtful about it (Indy has the freight logistics but not really the academic/universities for the workforce. There's Purdue in state and a few nice Big 10 schools (engineering-wise) like UMich or tOSU or UIUC around it, but same thing can be said for Chicago or Columbus OH).
 
PI4EVER
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:13 pm

I thought two of the major considerations for the new city was that it have an established mass transit system and existing international airport service.
Speculation was that Denver, Chicago, Dallas-Fort Worth, Philadelphia, Washington DC and Atlanta could meet most those requirements, and cost of living/quality of life were also mentioned as important considerations.
Jeff Bezos owns a home in the Washington DC area, but the area is considered expensive ranking near Bay Area California.
We'll probably see some speculation beginning soon on the new Apple HQ2 project just announced as well.
watch what you want. you may get it.
 
CMHMarc787
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:46 pm

Just the fact that CMH made it to round two means there's something being worked on that would have SEA, SFO, TATL etc. start up quickly...otherwise, Columbus would not have made it even this far.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:50 pm

WOW talk about a thread really ahead of the time. No one really knows at this point but Amazon is going to be fishing for huge offers and cost savings with HQ2. Don't expect them to be flying two planes worth of people a day between the cities, that just wont happen.

I am not sure how much traffic this will generate for passengers. YES, it will certainly produce some and add O&D and AS and/or DL would instantly start a single flight but a plane worth of people a day is alot. Amazon is going to hire people on the ground or move some seasoned employees. I think cargo and shipments between the two will be huge, but people to fill a plane not so much. If amazon has some temporary team they can charter a plane once to move them for their two weeks or something. Over a long period of time yes it will certain add o&d but they wont be flying two panes worth of people a day that is crazy a.net over exaggeration. Amazon is not going to be flying two planes worth of people a day between the two cities thats just too expensive would be cheaper to add them in Seattle! Cargo and shipments will be the huge change and i bet you amazon uses its own planes in a very non busy time to do it.

In conclusion would this allow AS or DL to probably add an EMB 175 flights between SEA and CMH yes with the help of already existing o&d. Would we go from zero non-stops to some impressive showing like 4 738s NO . I'm sure it has no effect on amazons choice. These employees will be based in that city not air commuting to SEA.
 
lavalampluva
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:55 pm

My guess is either Boston (big high-tech market) or Atlanta (deep pockets for financial incentives).
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
777PHX
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:57 pm

Rumor has it, Boston has the inside track. I'd be shocked if the new location wasn't on the east coast, in any event.
 
ncflyer
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:31 pm

Columbus is a semi finalist, even without good air service, because Amazon probably has dozens of criteria. We will never know all of them, nor will we ever know how Amazon weights them. Obviously air service is a criteria, but having an ATL isn’t necessary— nor is being CLT or MSP or DTW enough.
 
Jshank83
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:40 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I think cargo and shipments between the two will be huge, but people to fill a plane not so much.


Why would they need to ship cargo between the two? It's a headquarters not a distribution hub.

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
In conclusion would this allow AS or DL to probably add an EMB 175 flights between SEA and CMH yes with the help of already existing o&d. Would we go from zero non-stops to some impressive showing like 4 738s


It is out of range for a EMB175 so that won't happen
 
wjcandee
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:11 am

Downtown Dallas has some amazing spaces that could put a very cool new headquarters right in the crosshairs of all the regional transportation options, plus an amazing quality of life for middle-income earners. And no income tax. And great sports and a surprising amount of culture and artists (because of said inexpensive living opportunities). And the hands-down best air service. But it's not "progressive", so it's out. New York would be pure hell for middle-level people because of COL, but hits many of the other requirements, including education and a feckless "progressive" goverment. Same for Boston. So it really depends on whether HQ2 is an ego bath for top management or truly an effort to give a great QOL to the people who do the real work. We'll see.
 
flyguy84
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:13 am

wjcandee wrote:
Downtown Dallas has some amazing spaces that could put a very cool new headquarters right in the crosshairs of all the regional transportation options, plus an amazing quality of life for middle-income earners. And no income tax. And great sports and a surprising amount of culture and artists (because of said inexpensive living opportunities). And the hands-down best air service. But it's not "progressive", so it's out. New York would be pure hell for middle-level people because of COL, but hits many of the other requirements, including education and a feckless "progressive" goverment. Same for Boston. So it really depends on whether HQ2 is an ego bath for top management or truly an effort to give a great QOL to the people who do the real work. We'll see.

Have you been to Dallas lately? It's pretty progressive these days...
SFO
 
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neomax
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:35 am

The fact that Toronto made it this far definitely means something. Toronto is probably the best option on that last aside from possibly NYC from a connectivity/development/industry point of view, and gives the added benefit of global expansion. In the current US climate, for attracting foreign talent, high quality of life, and long-term economic security/stability, Toronto beats even NYC solely on the basis that it is in Canada to the point that for Amazon, it's almost a no-brainer. I'm betting on Toronto.
 
777Mech
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:26 am

It's pretty funny DTW didn't make the short list. Surprise our resident DTW folks haven't chimed in claiming Amazon is missing out.
 
notdownnlocked
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:17 am

So what is the big draw in having AMZNHQ2? Traffic? I now live with 2 and another one hiring for the 3rd facility close to the DFW Airport. It really sucks. Back to back truck traffic 24/7. Many bought their homes here for the schools and still continue to do so. Also at many nice homes people now open their front door to see a warehouse and lost 18 wheeler trucks driving through their neighborhoods. Saw an article on the news with a 3 year time lapse of what Amazon did in Seattle. Gridlock, apartments and complaints. In the last 3 years it was stated that 75 companies have moved to DFW. There are literally no homes here and prices are through the roof. Toyota HQ in Plano has wrecked that area too. Too much and too often. So I hope no AMZN2HQ in DFW.
 
Airstud
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:01 am

Was pulling for Detroit.

Detroit's got momentum.
Pancakes are delicious.
 
N757ST
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:04 am

notdownnlocked wrote:
So what is the big draw in having AMZNHQ2? Traffic? I now live with 2 and another one hiring for the 3rd facility close to the DFW Airport. It really sucks. Back to back truck traffic 24/7. Many bought their homes here for the schools and still continue to do so. Also at many nice homes people now open their front door to see a warehouse and lost 18 wheeler trucks driving through their neighborhoods. Saw an article on the news with a 3 year time lapse of what Amazon did in Seattle. Gridlock, apartments and complaints. In the last 3 years it was stated that 75 companies have moved to DFW. There are literally no homes here and prices are through the roof. Toyota HQ in Plano has wrecked that area too. Too much and too often. So I hope no AMZN2HQ in DFW.



Ummm... what city doesn’t want 50,000 new high paying tech jobs. I’ll agree with the above, I’d guess Boston.
 
N757ST
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:05 am

As in Boston has the edge in this competition. Though cost of living ain’t cheap.
 
32andBelow
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:02 pm

God forbid an amazon employee has to connect
 
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neomax
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:41 pm

N757ST wrote:
notdownnlocked wrote:
So what is the big draw in having AMZNHQ2? Traffic? I now live with 2 and another one hiring for the 3rd facility close to the DFW Airport. It really sucks. Back to back truck traffic 24/7. Many bought their homes here for the schools and still continue to do so. Also at many nice homes people now open their front door to see a warehouse and lost 18 wheeler trucks driving through their neighborhoods. Saw an article on the news with a 3 year time lapse of what Amazon did in Seattle. Gridlock, apartments and complaints. In the last 3 years it was stated that 75 companies have moved to DFW. There are literally no homes here and prices are through the roof. Toyota HQ in Plano has wrecked that area too. Too much and too often. So I hope no AMZN2HQ in DFW.



Ummm... what city doesn’t want 50,000 new high paying tech jobs. I’ll agree with the above, I’d guess Boston.


Uh, I don't know, maybe Seattle! Have you been sleeping under a rock? While every city wants high paying tech jobs, the vast majority of Seattleites agree that the Amazon effect has done more harm than good.

Here are just a few minor problems:

Housing prices soar
Pay gap goes through the roof
Less livable for middle class
Gentrification of neighborhoods
Reduced diversity in population
Increase in traffic
Poverty and homelessness
Corporate influence in local politics
Big companies grow at expense of small biz
Taxpayer funds go to corporates instead of the city

You can choose if you want to believe it or not, but I've lived in Seattle so I know that it's not all its cracked up to be. Seattle is no stranger to big business, and it is way better with it than without it, but let's not pretend that there are VERY big issues that must be addressed when somebody like Amazon comes to a city.

There are more than a few articles that have covered this subject. I suggest you read some of them.

http://komonews.com/news/local/seattle- ... ost-cities
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... 80d9b2007c
https://www.reuters.com/article/scruggs ... SKCN1BP2F8
https://www.geekwire.com/2017/seattle-m ... mazon-hq2/
http://www.post-gazette.com/business/de ... 1710150037
https://whyy.org/articles/seattle-amazo ... influence/
 
airbazar
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:54 pm

N757ST wrote:
As in Boston has the edge in this competition. Though cost of living ain’t cheap.

On top of the expensive cost of living, the location that Boston proposed is absolutely horrendous. Landlocked in a very densely populated residential neighborhood without easy access to any highway and very poor public transit access. If they end up here it's because they had already decided to come here and this entire process was nothing but a publicity stunt.
 
HPRamper
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:06 pm

neomax wrote:
N757ST wrote:
notdownnlocked wrote:
So what is the big draw in having AMZNHQ2? Traffic? I now live with 2 and another one hiring for the 3rd facility close to the DFW Airport. It really sucks. Back to back truck traffic 24/7. Many bought their homes here for the schools and still continue to do so. Also at many nice homes people now open their front door to see a warehouse and lost 18 wheeler trucks driving through their neighborhoods. Saw an article on the news with a 3 year time lapse of what Amazon did in Seattle. Gridlock, apartments and complaints. In the last 3 years it was stated that 75 companies have moved to DFW. There are literally no homes here and prices are through the roof. Toyota HQ in Plano has wrecked that area too. Too much and too often. So I hope no AMZN2HQ in DFW.



Ummm... what city doesn’t want 50,000 new high paying tech jobs. I’ll agree with the above, I’d guess Boston.


Uh, I don't know, maybe Seattle! Have you been sleeping under a rock? While every city wants high paying tech jobs, the vast majority of Seattleites agree that the Amazon effect has done more harm than good.

Here are just a few minor problems:

Housing prices soar
Pay gap goes through the roof
Less livable for middle class
Gentrification of neighborhoods
Reduced diversity in population
Increase in traffic
Poverty and homelessness
Corporate influence in local politics
Big companies grow at expense of small biz
Taxpayer funds go to corporates instead of the city

You can choose if you want to believe it or not, but I've lived in Seattle so I know that it's not all its cracked up to be. Seattle is no stranger to big business, and it is way better with it than without it, but let's not pretend that there are VERY big issues that must be addressed when somebody like Amazon comes to a city.

There are more than a few articles that have covered this subject. I suggest you read some of them.

http://komonews.com/news/local/seattle- ... ost-cities
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... 80d9b2007c
https://www.reuters.com/article/scruggs ... SKCN1BP2F8
https://www.geekwire.com/2017/seattle-m ... mazon-hq2/
http://www.post-gazette.com/business/de ... 1710150037
https://whyy.org/articles/seattle-amazo ... influence/

The problem there is that the residents of the city and the people making the decisions for the city care about different things. The city admins don't care about anything but the taxes they collect from Amazon. We've already seen how much they care about livability. You can't even drive a personal vehicle in Seattle now without being penalized for it, and they don't give a flying you-know-what about longtime citizens being pushed out by white-collar newcomers.
 
ual763
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:30 pm

I find it interesting 2 metro areas of DC made it on the list. Northern Virginia and Maryland Heights. I would assume. If they want to be close to an Intl. airport as the article states, I would assume Ashburn, VA would be a prime choice. We already house Amazon's servers here, there is a ton of open land ready to be developed, and we are literally right next door to Dulles. I think if that happened, Dulles would finally see a ton of growth in flights. Maybe a United would even renovate concourse C/D!
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Indy
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:31 pm

777PHX wrote:
Rumor has it, Boston has the inside track. I'd be shocked if the new location wasn't on the east coast, in any event.


Likely an unreliable rumor since Amazon just announced the finalists and they haven't even started working with the 20 cities to finalize bids. Cost of living and congestion is likely going to work against Boston. Another issue that almost every major city on the list will have is the ability to provide a 100 acre site for the campus without getting away from the city center.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:39 pm

No way it's NYC.

I'm shocked it even made the short list.

It has simply gotten too expensive and too hard to live here...even for techies.

NY is a city under siege from unchecked population growth without proper infrastructure growth. Our roads, subways, commuter rails, airports and bus system are collapsing under the weight of unchecked, large-scale developments (WTC, Hudson Yards, Atlantic Yards, LIC, Downtown Brooklyn). Furthermore, the housing stock coming online is totally unaffordable to middle class people that Amazon is targeting. Their employees would end up living in shoebox apartments with long, slow, expensive and unreliable commutes. Like many NYers, they would become the working poor.


City-Only Population:
1980: 7 million
1990: 7.3 million
2000: 8 million
2016: 8.5 million

You simply can not have that rate of growth (most of it in last 25 years) and do next to nothing with infrastructure.

To use an infrastructure example we are all very familiar with on a.net: Airtrain JFK; Airtrain EWR. Both projects came to fruition decades after they were needed; both projects were half-baked attempts at solving access to airports; and the EWR project, although only 20 years old, is already failing and in need of replacement. NYers today are very dependent on both systems. The Van Wyck (particularly northbound) now has traffic from 5am-11pm on a daily basis.

The NYC reality is summed up on the AirTrain: you have a maligned train system that has become a total necessity to avoid round the clock traffic jams on streets. It is expensive and slow and doesnt take you where you ultimately want to go in a timely fashion.
 
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tlecam
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:42 pm

Amazon is growing its Boston presence regardless of HQ2 location. They just took another million sq ft of space in the Seaport (sorry - “innovation district”). A full building with an option for another tower next door, the same size.

I can’t imagine how any rumors would be swirling with a “short list” of 20 cities.
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thomacf
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:43 pm

This whole thing is a circus by Amazon but smart on their part from a business standpoint. Competition is going to get them the best deal. If you look at the list, there are so many contradictions to what the RFP requested and what the final list of 20 was. So they had to break it down to 20 and make it look fair, keep this story going and spread the love around geographically ranging across a spectrum of cities.

Majors
NYC, LA, Chicago and DC - obviously
Tech Hubs
Boston (they are already putting in a large campus), Austin, Raleigh, Denver
Majors if you don't want to be in LA/Chicago/DC or NYC Area but want everything a major city can offer
ATL, DAL, MIA & PHL - I believe the winner comes out of this group
Wild Cards to make it look like some smaller cities have a chance and keep the suspense building
CMH, IND, Nashville & PIT - (you could have swapped any of these out with the likes of MSP, CLE, DET, KC, STL, MEM or Cincy for example) but you pick a few smaller up and coming towns to build the excitement
International
Toronto - just because. No way they pick a Canadian city and deal with the currency and labor US vs Canada headache for so many employees
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:13 pm

thomacf wrote:
This whole thing is a circus by Amazon but smart on their part from a business standpoint. So they had to break it down to 20 and make it look fair, keep this story going and spread the love around geographically ranging across a spectrum of cities.


It's amusing that you think Amazon somehow needs the PR created by this search for HQ2, Amazon is a household name, they don't need to desperately search for ways to get their name known around the country. You think Amazon, who basically owns e-comerce, has nothing better to do, then to randomly create excitment for a new HQ? C'mon....
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cranberrysaus
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:40 pm

My personal biased opinion would be Atlanta as the front runner. Just seems like it checks off a lot of boxes.

- Fairly cheap housing and real estate (for now)
- Available downtown location with access to mass transit
- Heavy rail system with direct connection to a large international airport
- Close to many large universities
- Sizeable young, educated population
- Fair weather most of the year
- Local and state government that's willing to throw money at them to make it happen

Downsides would probably be traffic, and that ATL isn't as "hip" as LA or NYC.
 
HPRamper
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:42 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
No way it's NYC.

I'm shocked it even made the short list.

It has simply gotten too expensive and too hard to live here...even for techies.

NY is a city under siege from unchecked population growth without proper infrastructure growth. Our roads, subways, commuter rails, airports and bus system are collapsing under the weight of unchecked, large-scale developments (WTC, Hudson Yards, Atlantic Yards, LIC, Downtown Brooklyn). Furthermore, the housing stock coming online is totally unaffordable to middle class people that Amazon is targeting. Their employees would end up living in shoebox apartments with long, slow, expensive and unreliable commutes. Like many NYers, they would become the working poor.


City-Only Population:
1980: 7 million
1990: 7.3 million
2000: 8 million
2016: 8.5 million

You simply can not have that rate of growth (most of it in last 25 years) and do next to nothing with infrastructure.

To use an infrastructure example we are all very familiar with on a.net: Airtrain JFK; Airtrain EWR. Both projects came to fruition decades after they were needed; both projects were half-baked attempts at solving access to airports; and the EWR project, although only 20 years old, is already failing and in need of replacement. NYers today are very dependent on both systems. The Van Wyck (particularly northbound) now has traffic from 5am-11pm on a daily basis.

The NYC reality is summed up on the AirTrain: you have a maligned train system that has become a total necessity to avoid round the clock traffic jams on streets. It is expensive and slow and doesnt take you where you ultimately want to go in a timely fashion.

It's interesting to read this viewpoint - I live near Seattle and I visited NYC several times over the past couple of years and I came away thinking "Man, I wish Seattle had their transit and infrastructure situation on par with this."
 
stlgph
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:44 pm

I'm going with Newark.

You have the access to the benefits and resources of NYC, access to an airport(s), the city and the state is probably on the cusp of offering hella deals, and probably the two biggest positives for them 1) diversity in their workforce (because you know, it's all the rage these days) and 2) for a long period of time, Newark has been hurting and has been trying to find a major revitalization to the downtown neighborhood. Amazon would love to pat themselves on the back for coming in and making it happen.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
HPRamper
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:45 pm

stlgph wrote:
I'm going with Newark.

You have the access to the benefits and resources of NYC, access to an airport(s), the city and the state is probably on the cusp of offering hella deals, and probably the two biggest positives for them 1) diversity in their workforce (because you know, it's all the rage these days) and 2) for a long period of time, Newark has been hurting and has been trying to find a major revitalization to the downtown neighborhood. Amazon would love to pat themselves on the back for coming in and making it happen.

I think Newark would be a really good location - that kind of money infusion would work wonders in the downtown area. The place is practically a ghost town.
 
airbazar
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:48 pm

tlecam wrote:
I can’t imagine how any rumors would be swirling with a “short list” of 20 cities.

This comment for the mayor of San Antonio seems very logical to me:
"It's hard to imagine that a forward-thinking company like Amazon hasn't already selected its preferred location. And, if that's the case, then this public process is, intentionally or not, creating a bidding war amongst states and cities," Nirenberg said.
Whether it is to create a bidding war or a publicity stunt, I have to agree tat they probably already know where they want to go.
Midwestindy wrote:
[
It's amusing that you think Amazon somehow needs the PR created by this search for HQ2, Amazon is a household name, they don't need to desperately search for ways to get their name known around the country. .

Really? You think so? Surely we all have heard about Budweiser, Pepsi, Hyundai, Chrysler and Coca-Cola. those companies spend millions in Superbowl adds alone.
 
blockski
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:00 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
No way it's NYC.

I'm shocked it even made the short list.

It has simply gotten too expensive and too hard to live here...even for techies.

NY is a city under siege from unchecked population growth without proper infrastructure growth. Our roads, subways, commuter rails, airports and bus system are collapsing under the weight of unchecked, large-scale developments (WTC, Hudson Yards, Atlantic Yards, LIC, Downtown Brooklyn). Furthermore, the housing stock coming online is totally unaffordable to middle class people that Amazon is targeting. Their employees would end up living in shoebox apartments with long, slow, expensive and unreliable commutes. Like many NYers, they would become the working poor.


City-Only Population:
1980: 7 million
1990: 7.3 million
2000: 8 million
2016: 8.5 million

You simply can not have that rate of growth (most of it in last 25 years) and do next to nothing with infrastructure.

To use an infrastructure example we are all very familiar with on a.net: Airtrain JFK; Airtrain EWR. Both projects came to fruition decades after they were needed; both projects were half-baked attempts at solving access to airports; and the EWR project, although only 20 years old, is already failing and in need of replacement. NYers today are very dependent on both systems. The Van Wyck (particularly northbound) now has traffic from 5am-11pm on a daily basis.

The NYC reality is summed up on the AirTrain: you have a maligned train system that has become a total necessity to avoid round the clock traffic jams on streets. It is expensive and slow and doesnt take you where you ultimately want to go in a timely fashion.


I'm not sure why you characterize NYC's growth as 'unchecked.' It seems quite constrained and rather slow, to be honest. That's a single-digit growth rate. New York's own history includes much faster growth.

Plus, New York, like most major cities, had a population decline between 1950 and the 1980s, and only in 2000 got back to its 1950 population levels.
 
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neomax
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:24 pm

cranberrysaus wrote:
My personal biased opinion would be Atlanta as the front runner. Just seems like it checks off a lot of boxes.

- Fairly cheap housing and real estate (for now)
- Available downtown location with access to mass transit
- Heavy rail system with direct connection to a large international airport
- Close to many large universities
- Sizeable young, educated population
- Fair weather most of the year
- Local and state government that's willing to throw money at them to make it happen

Downsides would probably be traffic, and that ATL isn't as "hip" as LA or NYC.


1. "Large international airport" is the understatement of the century, this is the world's busiest airport we're talking about. That's gotta be worth something.
2. Dude, ATL is the hip hop capital of America. LA and NYC are peanuts compared to ATL in this regard.
 
N212R
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:34 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
It's amusing that you think Amazon somehow needs the PR created by this search for HQ2, Amazon is a household name, they don't need to desperately search for ways to get their name known around the country. You think Amazon, who basically owns e-comerce, has nothing better to do, then to randomly create excitment for a new HQ? C'mon....


This isn't a PR move, the Amazonians don't need that, but it sure reeks of corporate hubris and inflated self-importance. Akin to the celebrity types who go to every social event so they can get their photo in the glamour pages. Didn't you see Bezos slumming with the celebs at the recent Golden Globes? Amazon is taking the piss out of all of us with this non-announcement AND, even more troubling, chuckling at the fact that they can.
 
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flymco753
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:41 pm

777Mech wrote:
It's pretty funny DTW didn't make the short list. Surprise our resident DTW folks haven't chimed in claiming Amazon is missing out.
This is a fairly ignorant statement, "it's pretty funny DTW didn't make the short list." Basically what you're saying here is the same as saying, "it's pretty funny DTW got hit the hardest during the recession." I like how you also refer to "folks" as in several people, which makes your statement wrong again. Amazon isn't missing out with Detroit just as they aren't in my area. I bet you, if Google looks to expand into a 2nd HQ, Detroit will be on the short list guaranteed.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
Indy
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:57 pm

cranberrysaus wrote:
My personal biased opinion would be Atlanta as the front runner. Just seems like it checks off a lot of boxes.

- Fairly cheap housing and real estate (for now)
- Available downtown location with access to mass transit
- Heavy rail system with direct connection to a large international airport
- Close to many large universities
- Sizeable young, educated population
- Fair weather most of the year
- Local and state government that's willing to throw money at them to make it happen

Downsides would probably be traffic, and that ATL isn't as "hip" as LA or NYC.


I find it unlikely that the winner will be a major metro area. Cost of living is typically much higher. Traffic is bad, and good luck finding 100 acres of open space downtown. Amazon doesn't need office space. The bid requires 100 acres of land. And money..... smaller markets are likely to cough up more incentive money than the major metro areas. Major markets typically don't have to play that game to attract businesses.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
777PHX
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:58 pm

Indy wrote:
777PHX wrote:
Rumor has it, Boston has the inside track. I'd be shocked if the new location wasn't on the east coast, in any event.


Likely an unreliable rumor since Amazon just announced the finalists and they haven't even started working with the 20 cities to finalize bids. Cost of living and congestion is likely going to work against Boston. Another issue that almost every major city on the list will have is the ability to provide a 100 acre site for the campus without getting away from the city center.


Boston also has produces some of the most educated, intelligent people in the country, which was high on Amazon's list of priorities(and why you're not going to see any city in flyover country get HQ2). COL is less of a factor, because let's face it, most of the jobs they'll be adding are six figure tech jobs. These aren't $10 /hr warehouse jobs we're talking about.

Forbes seems to think it's going to be Boston too:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan ... 07b2df712d
 
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cranberrysaus
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:59 pm

neomax wrote:
cranberrysaus wrote:
My personal biased opinion would be Atlanta as the front runner. Just seems like it checks off a lot of boxes.

- Fairly cheap housing and real estate (for now)
- Available downtown location with access to mass transit
- Heavy rail system with direct connection to a large international airport
- Close to many large universities
- Sizeable young, educated population
- Fair weather most of the year
- Local and state government that's willing to throw money at them to make it happen

Downsides would probably be traffic, and that ATL isn't as "hip" as LA or NYC.


1. "Large international airport" is the understatement of the century, this is the world's busiest airport we're talking about. That's gotta be worth something.
2. Dude, ATL is the hip hop capital of America. LA and NYC are peanuts compared to ATL in this regard.


Oh trust me I know. I think unfortunately though many folks from New York and California still think of Atlanta as some sort of backwater southern city.
 
Indy
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:01 pm

I doubt Forbes is right. I also bet they wouldn't have picked a number of cities that made the top 20. They likely would have picked a bunch of other locations that didn't even make the list. There is a reason a number of smaller markets made the list. Clearly they have something that Amazon is looking for. The people that staff the new HQ2 are going to come from all over the U.S. and even the world. Most likely will not come from the local talent pool. Nobody has 52,000 highly skilled employees sitting around waiting for jobs. And whoever wins the bid will likely have 2 or 3 years (or more) to come up with the workers to fill the positions. It isn't like Amazon is going to open their new building and all the sudden people are going to discover there are new jobs and Amazon is going to have to hold an emergency job fair to fill the positions. Location, land, accessibility to land and air transportation, cost of living, and incentives are going to be what wins this for someone.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
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chrisnh
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:06 pm

airbazar wrote:
N757ST wrote:
As in Boston has the edge in this competition. Though cost of living ain’t cheap.

On top of the expensive cost of living, the location that Boston proposed is absolutely horrendous. Landlocked in a very densely populated residential neighborhood without easy access to any highway and very poor public transit access. If they end up here it's because they had already decided to come here and this entire process was nothing but a publicity stunt.


Anything in Boston has ‘Urban blight’ all over it. All the locations in the Boston area essentially screamed, “Let’s see if we get this big rich company to fix up our urban blight so we don’t have to.” I mean, LAWRENCE...the drug capital of New England...was floated.

C’mon. Amazon isn’t a white knight to fix up your urban messes.
 
bob75013
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:08 pm

flyguy84 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Downtown Dallas has some amazing spaces that could put a very cool new headquarters right in the crosshairs of all the regional transportation options, plus an amazing quality of life for middle-income earners. And no income tax. And great sports and a surprising amount of culture and artists (because of said inexpensive living opportunities). And the hands-down best air service. But it's not "progressive", so it's out. New York would be pure hell for middle-level people because of COL, but hits many of the other requirements, including education and a feckless "progressive" goverment. Same for Boston. So it really depends on whether HQ2 is an ego bath for top management or truly an effort to give a great QOL to the people who do the real work. We'll see.

Have you been to Dallas lately? It's pretty progressive these days...


My guess is some city in the middle of the country. Two of Amazon's main criteria were good public transportation and good air service. So my guess would be Denver, Dallas or Chicago.

A Dallas tv station last night highlighted one the the Dallas sites: the plot of land that old Texas Stadium sat on. It's got a rapid transit station next door and is about 5 miles to both KDAL and KDFW. There is a reason 150,000 people a year and lots of companies are moving to the Dallas area. That being said, housing is no longer cheap as prices have exploded over the last 3 years.
 
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cranberrysaus
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:15 pm

Indy wrote:
I find it unlikely that the winner will be a major metro area. Cost of living is typically much higher.


Cost of living in Atlanta is fairly low compared to the other major metro areas on this list.

Traffic is bad, and good luck finding 100 acres of open space downtown.


Atlanta happens to have exactly that. And it's literally bordered on both sides by transit stations. Amazon's proposal IIRC cities mass transit as a factor in their search - something that no small market is going to be able to offer.

smaller markets are likely to cough up more incentive money than the major metro areas.


Georgia is reportedly offering over a billion dollars in incentives.

To keep this on topic though. I think the airport is going to be a huge asset that differentiates ATL from the crowd. The fact that Amazon could have a downtown campus that's also a 15-20 minute train ride from the busiest airport in the world is something that nobody else has.
 
blockski
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:18 pm

Indy wrote:
I find it unlikely that the winner will be a major metro area. Cost of living is typically much higher. Traffic is bad, and good luck finding 100 acres of open space downtown. Amazon doesn't need office space. The bid requires 100 acres of land. And money..... smaller markets are likely to cough up more incentive money than the major metro areas. Major markets typically don't have to play that game to attract businesses.


Given that Amazon's short list is nothing but a list of 'major metro areas,' I'm not sure why you think one won't be selected. I also don't know what you're calling a 'major' Metro area.

Did you read the RFP closely? Amazon is explicitly looking for office space. That's the whole reason for this process - they want more office space to house a second headquarters.

The RFP did not require 100 acres of land; that was a suggested size for a bid in a suburban location (and remember - that was for an office park, to host more office space).
 
Indy
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Re: 2nd Amazon HQ Finalists - No SEA-CMH

Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:21 pm

blockski wrote:
Given that Amazon's short list is nothing but a list of 'major metro areas,' I'm not sure why you think one won't be selected. I also don't know what you're calling a 'major' Metro area.

Did you read the RFP closely? Amazon is explicitly looking for office space. That's the whole reason for this process - they want more office space to house a second headquarters.

The RFP did not require 100 acres of land; that was a suggested size for a bid in a suburban location (and remember - that was for an office park, to host more office space).


I call places like Atlanta, NYC, Chicago major metro areas. Amazon explicitly wants 100 acres to build on. They are not looking for existing office space.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air

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