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Mortyman
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US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:21 am

US government shuts down ...

http://edition.cnn.com/2018/01/19/polit ... index.html

Not alot of responsible people in US politics apparently ...
 
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Dutchy
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:24 am

We already knew that. Too polarized anyhow to really take on the problems in the country.
 
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Channex757
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:24 pm

Never understood the sense of this "cloture motion" thing in American politics. A simple majority should be enough for any matter outside a change to the Constitution.


Right or wrong this sixty vote thing is something we've done without in the Mother of Parliaments so far. A non-partisan Speaker with substantial powers to guarantee order is kept is all that is needed.
 
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Channex757
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:26 pm

Channex757 wrote:
Never understood the sense of this "cloture motion" thing in American politics. A simple majority should be enough for any matter outside a change to the Constitution.


Right or wrong this sixty vote thing is something we've done without in the Mother of Parliaments so far. A non-partisan Speaker with substantial powers to guarantee order is kept is all that is needed.

I might add to that the practice of amending bills with unrelated clauses and Pork Barrel spending is also off the table here
 
WIederling
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:05 pm

Channex757 wrote:
non-partisan


That concept ( i.e. common foundational rules , a loyal opposition ) is inaccessible.
 
petertenthije
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:42 pm

Channex757 wrote:
A non-partisan Speaker with substantial powers
You're not familiar with US politics are you? Not only is there no such thing as non-partisan in the US, the odds of any political body transferring even a shred of power to someone or something else are astronomical.
 
bgm
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:09 pm

petertenthije wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
A non-partisan Speaker with substantial powers
You're not familiar with US politics are you? Not only is there no such thing as non-partisan in the US, the odds of any political body transferring even a shred of power to someone or something else are astronomical.


Remind me, which country is the so-called shithole again? :duck:
 
dmg626
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:36 pm

bgm wrote:
petertenthije wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
A non-partisan Speaker with substantial powers
You're not familiar with US politics are you? Not only is there no such thing as non-partisan in the US, the odds of any political body transferring even a shred of power to someone or something else are astronomical.


Remind me, which country is the so-called shithole again? :duck:


Haiti and African Nations , your welcome
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:54 pm

Schumer could have thrown in a 10-mile section of wall into DACA bill and get over with this. All he needs is a section of big beautiful wall where he can have a rally of yuge crowds.
 
bgm
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:02 pm

dmg626 wrote:
bgm wrote:
petertenthije wrote:
You're not familiar with US politics are you? Not only is there no such thing as non-partisan in the US, the odds of any political body transferring even a shred of power to someone or something else are astronomical.


Remind me, which country is the so-called shithole again? :duck:


Haiti and African Nations , your welcome


*You're
 
Route66
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:12 pm

Democrats have been making hay off the backs of illegal immigrants for 20 years, they will lose this one.
 
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Channex757
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:28 pm

petertenthije wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
A non-partisan Speaker with substantial powers
You're not familiar with US politics are you? Not only is there no such thing as non-partisan in the US, the odds of any political body transferring even a shred of power to someone or something else are astronomical.

I'm very familiar, thanks.

What I an saying is you can't have a fair game when the referee is playing as a 12th member of the opposite team (soccer team BTW). I remain surprised that this aberration has never been dealt with over the years.

This can also get ugly really fast as it's going to be played out in public. The news and social media pundits will bellyache and blame will get sprayed like shit on a field in autumn. It is a failure of leadership that the governing party has refused to bring to the table a bill that is bipartisan enough to overcome those aberrant Constitutional rules. Blaming the Democrats for the shutdown is dangerous politics and further pushes the Republicans off the cliff of extreme right wing politics.
 
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ER757
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:33 pm

Mortyman wrote:
US government shuts down ...

http://edition.cnn.com/2018/01/19/polit ... index.html

Not alot of responsible people in US politics apparently ...

No there are not - and it's been this way far too long. People on both sides of the aisle act like children on the playground instead of responsible adults. And yet these same buffoons keep getting re-elected time and time again. The whole of congress is a cesspool and it's why I haven't voted for an incumbent in the last three elections.
 
Route66
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:37 pm

Channex757 wrote:
Blaming the Democrats for the shutdown is dangerous politics and further pushes the Republicans off the cliff of extreme right wing politics.


Oh please - the drama.

Do you know that the more recent and memorable shutdowns, it was Republicans "blamed" for digging in on budget bill resistance? Did that push the Democrats "off the cliff of extreme left-wing politics"?
Last edited by Route66 on Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
NoTime
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:38 pm

Personally, I think the longer the government is shut down, the more people will realize we really don't need all of this government bloat. (One difference that is already apparent is that the national parks are still open... vs. when Obama was closing them during the last gov shutdown to make it as painful as possible.)

But, I think the Dems will lose the messaging on this one - They're shutting down the government because of illegal immigrants. If the last election was any indication, that won't go over well with a significant portion of the country.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:47 pm

NoTime wrote:
that won't go over well with a significant portion of the country.


Yeah, we know.... the 37 odd percent of Americans who dislike immigrants so much that they'd rather vote for and support a racist and inept old creep than try to wake up to the objective reality that immigrants are not the root of all their problems, despite what their favorite populist politicians tell them.

Of course, these immigrants are so evil that the GOP is perfectly justified to deny millions of children from disadvantaged families their healthcare and use them as a bargaining items, right?

:sarcastic:
 
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Aesma
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:48 pm

I've not followed this too closely as it's a waste of time but isn't this all ultimately about having a balanced budget ? Why can't the party of balanced budgets and taking care of the debt simply table a balanced budget ? Would they even need 60 votes then ?
 
MaverickM11
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:48 pm

Route66 wrote:
Democrats have been making hay off the backs of illegal immigrants for 20 years, they will lose this one.

5 republicans voted against the measure and 5 democrats voted for it. This is 100% a GOP production, never mind their leader who doesn't have a clue what he wants or where he stands.

Francoflier wrote:
NoTime wrote:
that won't go over well with a significant portion of the country.


Yeah, we know.... the 37 odd percent of Americans who dislike immigrants so much that they'd rather vote for and support a racist and inept old creep than try to wake up to the objective reality that immigrants are not the root of all their problems, despite what their favorite populist politicians tell them.

Of course, these immigrants are so evil that the GOP is perfectly justified to deny millions of children from disadvantaged families their healthcare and use them as a bargaining items, right?

:sarcastic:

Good pro life christians, with Delaware LLCs to pay off whores :rotfl:
Last edited by MaverickM11 on Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
NIKV69
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:03 pm

Route66 wrote:
Democrats have been making hay off the backs of illegal immigrants for 20 years, they will lose this one.


I think ultimately this will hurt them in the long run. Trump made an attempt to work together and is on the side of the dreamers. He is not going to deport them and everyone knows it. All he wanted was the border beefed up so new illegals don't poor in once amnesty is given and Schumer couldn't even agree to that.

This shutdown won't last long. Senate will act within 48 hours to get a short extension and they will work it out. This was theater and stupid.
 
NoTime
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:06 pm

Aesma wrote:
I've not followed this too closely as it's a waste of time but isn't this all ultimately about having a balanced budget ? Why can't the party of balanced budgets and taking care of the debt simply table a balanced budget?


Because if the GOP were to cut funding that teaches Kenyans to use Facebook or studies the smoking habits of Russians or the history of Romance novels (all real programs, btw), Pelosi and company claim that it's Armageddon and the complicit media back them up. Besides, the GOP stopped being about a balanced budget 20+ years ago.
 
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scbriml
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:14 pm

ER757 wrote:
The whole of congress is a cesspool and it's why I haven't voted for an incumbent in the last three elections.


What happened to "draining the swamp"?
 
CCGPV
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:23 pm

Now is the best time to visit the National Park System. No staff, gift-shops, or rangers looking over your shoulder.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:31 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Route66 wrote:
Democrats have been making hay off the backs of illegal immigrants for 20 years, they will lose this one.


I think ultimately this will hurt them in the long run. Trump made an attempt to work together and is on the side of the dreamers.

Lol when and which of the dozen positions of the multiple personalities was this attempt?
 
LMP737
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:40 pm

Route66 wrote:
Oh please - the drama.

Do you know that the more recent and memorable shutdowns, it was Republicans "blamed" for digging in on budget bill resistance? Did that push the Democrats "off the cliff of extreme left-wing politics"?


Oh please, the GOP controls both houses and the White House so this whole mess is on them.
 
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Aesma
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:53 pm

I wasted some time on this and things are even less clear. Apparently the US constitution, and various laws and rules, make it complicated to even know if you need a simple majority or a supermajority. That's not great for democracy if the rules are already complicated.
 
LTCM
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:56 pm

And so the schumer shutdown begins. Anyone who follows politics knows the public is going to blame the left for this one. There is NOTHING in the spending bill they disagree with, they simply are putting the interest of illegal aliens over Americans.
 
LTCM
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:07 pm

Aesma wrote:
I wasted some time on this and things are even less clear. Apparently the US constitution, and various laws and rules, make it complicated to even know if you need a simple majority or a supermajority. That's not great for democracy if the rules are already complicated.


The 60 vote rule to initiate cloture is a Senate rule and is not from the constitution. The Senate has a chance after every election to change its own rules, and thus could remove the ability for unlimited debate, but doing so is considered going "nuclear".

Once the senate gets 60 votes for cloture, the bill goes to an actual vote where a majority is all that is needed.

Democrats didn't vote no on the bill, they voted no on even having a vote on it.

Edited to remove snarky launague. It was uncalled for and I regret including it.
 
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Aesma
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:32 pm

Imagine such a rule in a normal democracy with more than two parties, nothing would get voted on, ever.
 
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Tugger
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:38 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
I think ultimately this will hurt them in the long run. Trump made an attempt to work together and is on the side of the dreamers.

As he did with taxes Trump once again was two faced and said one thing and did another. He is pretty weak and easily swayed by his fear of appearing weak.

Tugg
 
geologyrocks
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:43 pm

Francoflier wrote:
NoTime wrote:
that won't go over well with a significant portion of the country.


Yeah, we know.... the 37 odd percent of Americans who dislike immigrants so much that they'd rather vote for and support a racist and inept old creep than try to wake up to the objective reality that immigrants are not the root of all their problems, despite what their favorite populist politicians tell them.

Of course, these immigrants are so evil that the GOP is perfectly justified to deny millions of children from disadvantaged families their healthcare and use them as a bargaining items, right?

:sarcastic:


There we go with the hatred of immigrants line completely ignoring the fact that illegal immigrants are the issue.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:44 pm

Both sides, as always, are to blame. All incumbents on both sides need to be voted out, I'm tired of career politicians. I can't wait to vote in the primary coming up to vote for a new individual running against the incumbent who's been in since 1991.
 
CCGPV
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:03 pm

Aesma wrote:
Imagine such a rule in a normal democracy with more than two parties, nothing would get voted on, ever.



This is basically what we have now.

There are many different factions in each party. That's why the republicans can't just rubber stamp "the agenda" even though they are all Republicans. Some are hardline, some are moderate, some are wishy-washy. Its not quite as extreme on the Democrats side at the moment but its there.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:06 pm

geologyrocks wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
NoTime wrote:
that won't go over well with a significant portion of the country.


Yeah, we know.... the 37 odd percent of Americans who dislike immigrants so much that they'd rather vote for and support a racist and inept old creep than try to wake up to the objective reality that immigrants are not the root of all their problems, despite what their favorite populist politicians tell them.

Of course, these immigrants are so evil that the GOP is perfectly justified to deny millions of children from disadvantaged families their healthcare and use them as a bargaining items, right?

:sarcastic:


There we go with the hatred of immigrants line completely ignoring the fact that illegal immigrants are the issue.

Really. So there's no change to legal immigration?
 
geologyrocks
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:19 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
geologyrocks wrote:
Francoflier wrote:

Yeah, we know.... the 37 odd percent of Americans who dislike immigrants so much that they'd rather vote for and support a racist and inept old creep than try to wake up to the objective reality that immigrants are not the root of all their problems, despite what their favorite populist politicians tell them.

Of course, these immigrants are so evil that the GOP is perfectly justified to deny millions of children from disadvantaged families their healthcare and use them as a bargaining items, right?

:sarcastic:


There we go with the hatred of immigrants line completely ignoring the fact that illegal immigrants are the issue.

Really. So there's no change to legal immigration?


Yes. The main issue is specifically about what they are calling Dreamers (Currently under a bill called DACA). It includes people who were brought to the US illegally as children who have not gained citizenship. Despite the rhetoric, poll numbers do show broad support for this group on both sides, even by CNN polls which is left leaning.

What is happening now is that the Democrats are refusing to pass an appropriations bill unless they can tie in an extension of DACA with it. What the poster is trying to say now is that Republicans hate children who are sick, blah blah blah because future funding of a low income children’s healthcare is now in jeopardy (a program that is funded through the proposed appropriations bill that the Democrats blocked last night).

The sad reality is that trying to tie in completely unrelated legislation to another piece of legislation is nothing new or uncommon. Both parties are completely guilty of it and have led us to this point where Congress just literally doesn’t do anything anymore.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:30 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
5 republicans voted against the measure and 5 democrats voted for it. This is 100% a GOP production


Try again; 60 votes were needed. This is on the Democrats.
 
NIKV69
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:32 pm

geologyrocks wrote:

Yes. The main issue is specifically about what they are calling Dreamers (Currently under a bill called DACA). It includes people who were brought to the US illegally as children who have not gained citizenship. Despite the rhetoric, poll numbers do show broad support for this group on both sides, even by CNN polls which is left leaning.

What is happening now is that the Democrats are refusing to pass an appropriations bill unless they can tie in an extension of DACA with it. What the poster is trying to say now is that Republicans hate children who are sick, blah blah blah because future funding of a low income children’s healthcare is now in jeopardy (a program that is funded through the proposed appropriations bill that the Democrats blocked last night).

The sad reality is that trying to tie in completely unrelated legislation to another piece of legislation is nothing new or uncommon. Both parties are completely guilty of it and have led us to this point where Congress just literally doesn’t do anything anymore.


What is really happening is the Dems don't want to strengthen the border. Doing so prevents their voters from entering the country illegally and hurts them in future elections. It is and always has been about what your mindset is. The Schumer, Pelosi, Murray just let anyone in and give them perks and ultimately citizenship or the GOP securing the border and controlling who comes in LEGALLY.

If you want to ignore this then go ahead but it's what the immigration fight is about and why they can't get a deal done. The left doesn't feel you should go through a process like my father did to come here. They feel illegal immigration is a good thing (since 90% of it votes left) and will do anything to protect it like refusing to use the term "illegal", calling anyone that wants legal immigration a racist and protecting illegal aliens in sanctuary cities. It's obvious and a total joke.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:45 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
5 republicans voted against the measure and 5 democrats voted for it. This is 100% a GOP production


Try again; 60 votes were needed. This is on the Democrats.

Oh yah of course, GOP rescinded DACA, GOP didn't reauthorize CHIP, GOP controls all levers of government, the GOP couldn't even wrangle it's own members into support--they drove straight into the ditch and of course it's someone else's fault. And that's before you even factor in Trump's magic 8 ball position on the issue that changes daily.

NIKV69 wrote:
Doing so prevents their voters from entering the country illegally and hurts them in future elections

Even your Kris K Kobach voter suppression commission couldn't come up with jack to support that nonsense

geologyrocks wrote:
What is happening now is that the Democrats are refusing to pass an appropriations bill unless they can tie in an extension of DACA with it. What the poster is trying to say now is that Republicans hate children who are sick, blah blah blah because future funding of a low income children’s healthcare is now in jeopardy (a program that is funded through the proposed appropriations bill that the Democrats blocked last night).

It lapsed months ago. Orrin Hatch literally said 'there's no money left for people who won't help themselves', ie sick children. Republicans may not "hate children" but good god the optics are not endearing.

geologyrocks wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
geologyrocks wrote:

There we go with the hatred of immigrants line completely ignoring the fact that illegal immigrants are the issue.

Really. So there's no change to legal immigration?


Yes. The main issue is specifically about what they are calling Dreamers (Currently under a bill called DACA). It includes people who were brought to the US illegally as children who have not gained citizenship. Despite the rhetoric, poll numbers do show broad support for this group on both sides, even by CNN polls which is left leaning.

The main issue of this shutdown is DACA but it's impossible to disentangle it from the rhetoric and greater goal of the administration to wind immigration down to near zilch. Outside of Norwegians :rotfl:
 
geologyrocks
Posts: 175
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:47 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
geologyrocks wrote:

Yes. The main issue is specifically about what they are calling Dreamers (Currently under a bill called DACA). It includes people who were brought to the US illegally as children who have not gained citizenship. Despite the rhetoric, poll numbers do show broad support for this group on both sides, even by CNN polls which is left leaning.

What is happening now is that the Democrats are refusing to pass an appropriations bill unless they can tie in an extension of DACA with it. What the poster is trying to say now is that Republicans hate children who are sick, blah blah blah because future funding of a low income children’s healthcare is now in jeopardy (a program that is funded through the proposed appropriations bill that the Democrats blocked last night).

The sad reality is that trying to tie in completely unrelated legislation to another piece of legislation is nothing new or uncommon. Both parties are completely guilty of it and have led us to this point where Congress just literally doesn’t do anything anymore.


What is really happening is the Dems don't want to strengthen the border. Doing so prevents their voters from entering the country illegally and hurts them in future elections. It is and always has been about what your mindset is. The Schumer, Pelosi, Murray just let anyone in and give them perks and ultimately citizenship or the GOP securing the border and controlling who comes in LEGALLY.

If you want to ignore this then go ahead but it's what the immigration fight is about and why they can't get a deal done. The left doesn't feel you should go through a process like my father did to come here. They feel illegal immigration is a good thing (since 90% of it votes left) and will do anything to protect it like refusing to use the term "illegal", calling anyone that wants legal immigration a racist and protecting illegal aliens in sanctuary cities. It's obvious and a total joke.


No, I get it and it’s a problem. If someone breaks into your house and decided to start squatting then you wouldn’t call them an undocumented resident.
 
NoTime
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:56 pm

geologyrocks wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
NoTime wrote:
that won't go over well with a significant portion of the country.


Yeah, we know.... the 37 odd percent of Americans who dislike immigrants so much that they'd rather vote for and support a racist and inept old creep than try to wake up to the objective reality that immigrants are not the root of all their problems, despite what their favorite populist politicians tell them.

Of course, these immigrants are so evil that the GOP is perfectly justified to deny millions of children from disadvantaged families their healthcare and use them as a bargaining items, right?

:sarcastic:


There we go with the hatred of immigrants line completely ignoring the fact that illegal immigrants are the issue.


Of course. The left has to try to make it completely about immigrants, and not illegal immigrants. This is because the average American voter will agree with the idea that we should have control over who enters our country and why. Plus, Dems see DACA as a path to gaining an extra 800,000 voters.
 
Alias1024
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:54 pm

I find it amusing how both sides are in their echo chambers, convinced the other side will shoulder the blame for the shutdown. Most independents are disgusted with both sides over this, and who they give more of the blame to will probably split fairly evenly.

NIKV69 wrote:
What is really happening is the Dems don't want to strengthen the border. Doing so prevents their voters from entering the country illegally and hurts them in future elections. It is and always has been about what your mindset is. The Schumer, Pelosi, Murray just let anyone in and give them perks and ultimately citizenship or the GOP securing the border and controlling who comes in LEGALLY.

If you want to ignore this then go ahead but it's what the immigration fight is about and why they can't get a deal done. The left doesn't feel you should go through a process like my father did to come here. They feel illegal immigration is a good thing (since 90% of it votes left) and will do anything to protect it like refusing to use the term "illegal", calling anyone that wants legal immigration a racist and protecting illegal aliens in sanctuary cities. It's obvious and a total joke.

That’s the echo chamber viewpoint. You should actually talk to a few liberals and ask them why they care about DACA, because it’s not the tin foil hat nonsense you wrote. They feel it’s fundamentally immoral to tell someone that was brought here as a small child through no choice of their own, grew up here, and is a productive member of society that they have no choice but to be sent away from their home to a country where they have no friends, possibly no family, little economic opportunity, and may not even speak the language.

DACA isn’t about future voters for liberals, it’s about basic human decency.
 
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seb146
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:38 pm

Republicans have been in control of Congress for six (?) years now and the other two branches of government for a year. They are fully in charge of the government and they blame Democrats who are not in charge of anything. How does that work, exactly?

Alias1024 wrote:
I find it amusing how both sides are in their echo chambers, convinced the other side will shoulder the blame for the shutdown. Most independents are disgusted with both sides over this, and who they give more of the blame to will probably split fairly evenly.

NIKV69 wrote:
What is really happening is the Dems don't want to strengthen the border. Doing so prevents their voters from entering the country illegally and hurts them in future elections. It is and always has been about what your mindset is. The Schumer, Pelosi, Murray just let anyone in and give them perks and ultimately citizenship or the GOP securing the border and controlling who comes in LEGALLY.

If you want to ignore this then go ahead but it's what the immigration fight is about and why they can't get a deal done. The left doesn't feel you should go through a process like my father did to come here. They feel illegal immigration is a good thing (since 90% of it votes left) and will do anything to protect it like refusing to use the term "illegal", calling anyone that wants legal immigration a racist and protecting illegal aliens in sanctuary cities. It's obvious and a total joke.

That’s the echo chamber viewpoint. You should actually talk to a few liberals and ask them why they care about DACA, because it’s not the tin foil hat nonsense you wrote. They feel it’s fundamentally immoral to tell someone that was brought here as a small child through no choice of their own, grew up here, and is a productive member of society that they have no choice but to be sent away from their home to a country where they have no friends, possibly no family, little economic opportunity, and may not even speak the language.

DACA isn’t about future voters for liberals, it’s about basic human decency.


For the long game, DACA will help Democrats. However, Republicans and righties keep playing the short game with DACA and playing to their base, so we may never see any long game because them brown skinned Mexican speaking people keep taking our jerbs!
 
Andre3K
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Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:25 pm

LTCM wrote:
And so the schumer shutdown begins. Anyone who follows politics knows the public is going to blame the left for this one. There is NOTHING in the spending bill they disagree with, they simply are putting the interest of illegal aliens over Americans.


Allow me to quote Fox News and Trump circa 2013.

Trump spoke to “Fox & Friends” in 2013 and was asked who would be fired during a government shutdown, as shown in a clip posted by "Morning Joe."
“Well, if you say who gets fired it always has to be the top,” Trump said. “I mean, problems start from the top and they have to get solved from the top and the president’s the leader. And he’s got to get everybody in a room and he’s got to lead.”

He said that further down in history, “when they talk about the government shutdown, they’re going to be talking about the president of the United States, who the president was at that time.”

“They’re not going to be talking about who was the head of the House, the head the Senate, who’s running things in Washington,” Trump said.

“So I really think the pressure is on the president,” he added.

"You have to get everybody in a room. The president has to lead," Trump told former Fox News Host Greta Van Susteren during the on-air interview. "You have to be nice and be angry and be wild and conjole and do all sorts of things, but you have to get a deal. And, unfortunately, [Obama] has never been a dealmaker. That wasn't his expertise before he went into politics and it's obviously not his expertise now."

Checkmate.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14566
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:37 pm

seb146 wrote:
Republicans have been in control of Congress for six (?) years now and the other two branches of government for a year. They are fully in charge of the government and they blame Democrats who are not in charge of anything. How does that work, exactly?


Your claim is incorrect and is just propaganda recited by the MSM. For your claim to be true the GOP would need to hold 60 seats in the Senate.

seb146 wrote:
For the long game, DACA will help Democrats. However, Republicans and righties keep playing the short game with DACA and playing to their base, so we may never see any long game because them brown skinned Mexican speaking people keep taking our jorbs!


Again your claim is a bit flawed. The GOP wants to help Dreamers but wants Mexico to know once the bill is signed you just can't jump the boarder and get amnesty. The Dems can't have this since they need a steady flow of illegals to keep up their base so any strengthening of the border is not going to happen. Once again it all comes back to open borders which is what the left wants. We need legal immigration and to stop illegal immigration. Once you accept that we can have a conversation. Until then it's just calling people racist and bigots and more of the same crap. .
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:17 pm

NoTime wrote:
geologyrocks wrote:
Francoflier wrote:

Yeah, we know.... the 37 odd percent of Americans who dislike immigrants so much that they'd rather vote for and support a racist and inept old creep than try to wake up to the objective reality that immigrants are not the root of all their problems, despite what their favorite populist politicians tell them.

Of course, these immigrants are so evil that the GOP is perfectly justified to deny millions of children from disadvantaged families their healthcare and use them as a bargaining items, right?

:sarcastic:


There we go with the hatred of immigrants line completely ignoring the fact that illegal immigrants are the issue.


Of course. The left has to try to make it completely about immigrants, and not illegal immigrants. This is because the average American voter will agree with the idea that we should have control over who enters our country and why. Plus, Dems see DACA as a path to gaining an extra 800,000 voters.

Is this the part where you all pretend to forget that the shithole comment bemoaning immigrants coming legally from black countries was barely a week ago?
 
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casinterest
Posts: 14171
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: US government shuts down ...

Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:31 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
5 republicans voted against the measure and 5 democrats voted for it. This is 100% a GOP production


Try again; 60 votes were needed. This is on the Democrats.


5 Republicans didn't vote for this deal. So no. it is on the GOP the leading party to work on a consensus. the Majority leader for the GOP did not even vote for the bill.

Only those with no idea about leadership and integrity would believe that this was the Democrats fault.

McConnell led the tax cuts, now he can't stomach the deficits it will cause.

The whole GOP has no honesty or integrity about DACA or immigration if they beleive "Growth" is going to close this massive hole in spending and income they have opened.
 
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ER757
Posts: 4272
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 am

Re: US government shuts down ...

Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:48 am

Super80Fan wrote:
Both sides, as always, are to blame. All incumbents on both sides need to be voted out, I'm tired of career politicians. I can't wait to vote in the primary coming up to vote for a new individual running against the incumbent who's been in since 1991.

BINGO!! You get it - there needs to be more people thinking like you - ALL of these asshats need to - go, left, right, independent - get a broom
 
LMP737
Posts: 6280
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

Re: US government shuts down ...

Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:48 am

NoTime wrote:

But, I think the Dems will lose the messaging on this one - They're shutting down the government because of illegal immigrants. If the last election was any indication, that won't go over well with a significant portion of the country.


That argument only makes sense if you ignore the fact that the GOP controls both the house and the senate along with the White House.
 
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WarRI1
Posts: 14195
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

Re: US government shuts down ...

Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:46 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Route66 wrote:
Democrats have been making hay off the backs of illegal immigrants for 20 years, they will lose this one.


I think ultimately this will hurt them in the long run. Trump made an attempt to work together and is on the side of the dreamers.

Lol when and which of the dozen positions of the multiple personalities was this attempt?


Reading this reply reminded me of a fellow I worked with. We called him Sybil. I think tRump now qualifies for that name himself after watching him and listening to him for years.
For my own mental health, I do not watch him or listen to him. :crackup:
 
dragon-wings
Posts: 4185
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2001 4:55 am

Re: US government shuts down ...

Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:04 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
Schumer could have thrown in a 10-mile section of wall into DACA bill and get over with this. All he needs is a section of big beautiful wall where he can have a rally of yuge crowds.


During Schumer's speech last night after the vote he said he put the wall up for negotiation during his meeting with Trump and Trump still said no.
 
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WarRI1
Posts: 14195
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

Re: US government shuts down ...

Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:07 am

dragon-wings wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Schumer could have thrown in a 10-mile section of wall into DACA bill and get over with this. All he needs is a section of big beautiful wall where he can have a rally of yuge crowds.


During Schumer's speech last night after the vote he said he put the wall up for negotiation during his meeting with Trump and Trump still said no.


Playing to the base, nothing else. His Far Right people rush in and he caves to the base. Unfortunately, we know his base is?????????

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