Airliners.net

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:46 pm**

tommy1808 wrote:
sevenair wrote:

Got the message at last?

57%-not in favor of your kind of Brexit.

Did you get the message?

Best regards
Thomas

My Brexit being one with the most free, most open trading, close working relationships with the EU, ease of access for EU nationals coming here? Now that is sad.

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:53 pm**

sevenair wrote:
Myth: BUSTED. Oh dear, how sad.

Marketing bla bla doesn´t bust anything.

I don´t see how Vodaphone, O2 and Telekom would not charge roaming fees to 3 or how they will just swallow the costs forever......

Myth: BUSTED. Oh dear, how sad

They probably know why they list gross investment, and not net investment. Since gross doesn´t look all that rosy, i wonder hot net-investment would look.

I wonder how much of the exploded foreign investment in France is from the UK......

best regards
Thomas

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:54 pm**

sevenair wrote:
My Brexit being one with the most free, most open trading, close working relationships with the EU, ease of access for EU nationals coming here? Now that is sad.

you still that, it is called EU membership. That you have the fantasy of "most free, most open trading, close working relationships with the EU, ease of access for EU nationals" doesn´t work the way you dream it up hasn´t quite sunk in yet it seems.

best regards
Thomas

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:36 pm**

sevenair wrote:
My Brexit being one with the most free, most open trading, close working relationships with the EU, ease of access for EU nationals coming here? Now that is sad.

Ah yes. Enjoy it while it lasts. At some point your ideal Brexit will meet the reality of Brexit.

Here's some stories you're missing out on:

The Indian High Commissioner says India is not in a rush to get a trade agreement. He also thinks British views of India are tainted by "nostalgia". Doesn't sound like a winning combination to me.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics ... de-deal-UK

Australia wants hormone-injected beef exports to be part of the FTA. Health concerns aside, that'll hurt local producers. Ditto the US and its hormone beef/chlorinated chicken. Might be a bit of a stumbling block on that road to global Britain.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics ... trade-deal

The Global Britain narrative is an interesting one. Are you from the Minford school of thought? Because the Minford/JRM model, while innovative, will cause significant job losses in agriculture and manufacturing. On the flip side, it will be a boon to the financial sector, and probably bet positive for most of the country. That will really get the protectionist Bannonbart Brexit faction going. You know, the ones who're up in arms about where passports are made.

Here's the circle you have to square. Agricultural and manufacturing workers reside in majority Leave areas.

- Will they take job losses in their stride while the bankers and insurance brokers in remain-voting London reap the economic benefits?

- Will they accept immigrants (EU or otherwise) coming in and taking their jobs/lowering their wages?

And so on.

The 52-48 stats you post don't tell a happy story. They show that the divide has hardened. If it's true that Leavers have not changed their mind, it is equally true that they have failed to convinced remainders that Brexit is a good thing. That divide has become so unbridgeable that the Spectator and Telegraph fear that the Tories will get hammered in London council elections because of - you guessed it - Brexit. Two years on, the anger persists. Not a sign of a healthy, strong nation. Quite the opposite.

Your Brexit is predicated on that anger dissipating. It would need to. Otherwise the combination of angry urban dwellers and disenchanted and unemployed agricultura/manufacturing workers in your global Britain world might well conspire to put a certain Mr Corbyn into 10 Downing Street. And we both know that won't end well.

The remainders have conceded, but they are not vanquished. They know what's coming next - he battle between "global" Britain and "take back control" Britain. The former requires compromises that the latter may not accept.

I expect it'll be a lot more comedy than the current mess. Brexit - the gift that keeps on giving.

Posted: **Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:38 am**

#DespiteBrexit

A: "Oh but the planes will stop flying"
B: "We will need to pay to go to the EU"
C: "We will need visas to go to Europe"

Or the default:
D: "It's because we are still in the EU" in which case refer to points A, B and C next year.

Posted: **Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:49 am**

sevenair wrote:
A: "Oh but the planes will stop flying"

since you keep judging sensible people, remainers, by some fringe utterances, you obviously don´t have any meaningful criticism to bring forward...

B: "We will need to pay to go to the EU"

Well, if ETIAS becomes real, and it very much seems like that, UK citizens will of course have to pay just as any other non-schengen/non-EU citizen. Unless of course the UK government comes to a closer post-Brexit relationship. In other words: If that doesn´t happen, you didn´t get the Brexit you dream up

C: "We will need visas to go to Europe"

Is anyone actually claiming that or is that a fabricated claim?

Or the default:
D: "It's because we are still in the EU" in which case refer to points A, B and C next year.

Next year? Which rock have you been hiding under? In case you haven´t heard, there is no Brexit next year, your government just negotiated a pay up and keep quiet extension.

best regards
Thomas

Posted: **Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:05 am**

tommy1808 wrote:
since you keep judging sensible people, remainers, by some fringe utterances, you obviously don´t have any meaningful criticism to bring forward...

The strategy is simple (or rather, simplistic) - anything remotely approaching good news is purely because of Brexit. We'll just gloss over the fact that we're not actually "free of the tyranny of the EU" until 2021!

The contortions of the Brexiteers is highly amusing, while at the same time somewhat tragic.

Posted: **Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:04 pm**

sevenair wrote:
#DespiteBrexit

A: "Oh but the planes will stop flying"
B: "We will need to pay to go to the EU"
C: "We will need visas to go to Europe"

Or the default:
D: "It's because we are still in the EU" in which case refer to points A, B and C next year.

Or,

Q: "Is Britain still in the EU right now?"
S: "No, but yeh, but no, but yeh, but, what are they doin' on our patch or sumthin' or nuffin' or sorta like thing coz they is well gonna get beat-ins!"

#littlebritain

(Yes, the one on TV)

Posted: **Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:55 pm**

sevenair wrote:
A: "Oh but the planes will stop flying"

Possibly, but unlikely

sevenair"[quote="sevenair wrote:
B: "We will need to pay to go to the EU"

This is possible

sevenair wrote:
C: "We will need visas to go to Europe"

This is unlikely

sevenair wrote:
Or the default:
D: "It's because we are still in the EU" in which case refer to points A, B and C next year.

Of course, we are still in the EU, so the effects of us leaving have not yet been felt.

Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:46 am**

Richard28 wrote:
Of course, we are still in the EU, so the effects of us leaving have not yet been felt.

Stop using reason and logic.

You need to post more like sevenair...

#DespiteBrexit

Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:29 pm**

sevenair wrote:
#DespiteBrexit

Or the default:
D: "It's because we are still in the EU" in which case refer to points A, B and C next year.

Hmmm....Just think, the UK is still in the EU. Imagine the fall once it leaves!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43724311

Oh, that's right the UK will have countries lining up to do a trade deal.......

Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:51 pm**

Despite Brexit

Remember the outrage when Next posted a slight fall in profits or when ALDI's success was an 'indication of a struggling country', all because of Brexit.

Rather silent over this one, aren't we? Also deafeningly silent on a 10% profit rise at ASOS. But let's just concentrate on Shop Direct. Bad news there so it simply must be 'because of Brexit'.

Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:18 pm**

sevenair wrote:
...

#DespiteBrexit

Rather silent on these aren't we?

See how stupid this approach looks? But feel free to carry on jumping on every sliver of good news and crediting it to Brexit (that hasn't actually happened yet).

Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:23 pm**

sevenair wrote:
or when ALDI's success was an 'indication of a struggling country',.

I have no idea how ALDI stores in the UK are set up, but looking at the parking spot at ALDIs here it looks like ALDIs success is a sign of prosperity.

They don´t have sturgeon caviar for 20 EUR/20gr in the fridge to make fun of their customers.....

best regards
Thomas

Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:56 pm**

Is it just me or is Ryanair ‘pivoting away’ from everywhere EXCEPT the UK? It’s a taste of what’s to come for UK as MOL did threaten to cancel domestic flights and remainers keep telling us that flights will be grounded. Chania closing, Timisoara closing, Athens losing a plane whereas they have continued to add aircraft to the UK and moved GLA to EDI.

Must be Brexit.

Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:32 pm**

sevenair wrote:
Must be Brexit.

.... or you are struggling for Brexit good news stories.

Posted: **Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:26 am**

sevenair wrote:
Is it just me or is Ryanair ‘pivoting away’ from everywhere EXCEPT the UK? It’s a taste of what’s to come for UK as MOL did threaten to cancel domestic flights and remainers keep telling us that flights will be grounded. Chania closing, Timisoara closing, Athens losing a plane whereas they have continued to add aircraft to the UK and moved GLA to EDI.

Must be Brexit.

It is just you. Those aircraft are staying in the EU.

Ryanair announced it will be transferring planes from Athens and Chania to bases in Germany from the 1st of June where the airline is expanding its services

http://www.euronews.com/2018/04/11/ryan ... k-flights-

But since we're playing this cherry picking game:

The number of cars sold in the UK dropped 5.7% in 2017, according to industry body the Society of Motor Manufacturers & Traders, and ratings agency Moody's predicts a further 5.5% fall this year.

https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrations/

Maybe people are flying FR instead of driving.

Posted: **Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:07 pm**

Pivoting away

No mention of these jobs only being until March next year as that's when Ryanair will 'stop flights'. Anyway, even if they keep flying, passengers will still need a visa and will still need to pay to go to the EU so won't be wanting to flying anyway.

I wonder what roster code will be used when flights are grounded, no doubt with no pay. BRXT, SUSP or perhaps PIVT?

Posted: **Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:18 pm**

ElPistolero wrote:
sevenair wrote:
Is it just me or is Ryanair ‘pivoting away’ from everywhere EXCEPT the UK? It’s a taste of what’s to come for UK as MOL did threaten to cancel domestic flights and remainers keep telling us that flights will be grounded. Chania closing, Timisoara closing, Athens losing a plane whereas they have continued to add aircraft to the UK and moved GLA to EDI.

Must be Brexit.

It is just you. Those aircraft are staying in the EU.

Ryanair announced it will be transferring planes from Athens and Chania to bases in Germany from the 1st of June where the airline is expanding its services

http://www.euronews.com/2018/04/11/ryan ... k-flights-

But since we're playing this cherry picking game:

The number of cars sold in the UK dropped 5.7% in 2017, according to industry body the Society of Motor Manufacturers & Traders, and ratings agency Moody's predicts a further 5.5% fall this year.

https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrations/

Maybe people are flying FR instead of driving.

Ryanair haven't removed a single aircraft from the UK. Instead they have added.

https://www.reuters.com/article/germany-vehicleregistrations/german-car-sales-fall-35-pct-in-march-to-348000-cars-source-idUSL5N1RH17Y

https://uk.motor1.com/news/238628/western-europe-car-sales-down/

Also not too great in Canada which is a free, sovereign nation just like we will be.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-canada-autos/canada-auto-sales-dip-as-economy-shows-signs-of-weakness-idUSKCN1HA1QL

Of course, the softening of car sales is 100% Brexit. Nothing to do with a slump in diesels after the German's cheaters tests and the fallout following that, punitive taxes for new car and premium cars here and absolutely nothing to do with the fact that e-cars are just still not affordable for the many.

Posted: **Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:34 pm**

I am a bit lost here: you are arguing about success or brexit failure with an Irish company ?

Posted: **Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:59 pm**

I see no Brexit failure. Only an Irish company who tried to influence a vote in another country, contributed to project fear, continued to try and influence Brexit to this day pretending it was in the best interests of the country whereas in fact it's because it's not what's best for their business.

Saying that their business has continued to flourish, they've increased aircraft in the UK and have actually grown the market, despite Brexit.

Despite being the most vocal they seem to be doing ok.

Posted: **Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:04 pm**

sevenair wrote:
No mention of these jobs only being until March next year as that's when Ryanair will 'stop flights'. Anyway, even if they keep flying, passengers will still need a visa and will still need to pay to go to the EU so won't be wanting to flying anyway. ?

You still ignor that due to the transition agreement the goal post has been moved to December 31st 2021. Moreover, why would they mention contractual provisions in an advertisement in which they hire staff (or to anyone except for those selected for an interview)? Our company never does that.

Posted: **Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:53 am**

Despite Brexit

“Oh but the flights will stop”

61 months of growth - now remainiacs have realised their project fear is being debunked day by day now its now ‘until the transition ends’. If you keep moving the goalposts you’ll never be proven wrong!

Posted: **Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:57 am**

LJ wrote:
sevenair wrote:
No mention of these jobs only being until March next year as that's when Ryanair will 'stop flights'. Anyway, even if they keep flying, passengers will still need a visa and will still need to pay to go to the EU so won't be wanting to flying anyway. ?

You still ignor that due to the transition agreement the goal post has been moved to December 31st 2021. Moreover, why would they mention contractual provisions in an advertisement in which they hire staff (or to anyone except for those selected for an interview)? Our company never does that.

Oh I see. So yet again remoaners are moving the goalposts. Now it’s ‘after the transition’ period that flights will stop. Good to know.

I only hope Ryanair and their newfound hero of a.net MOL clarify what FR’s base transfer policy is as when they ‘pivot away’ from the UK and simply stop serving their biggest single market that crews can expect a fair transfer policy and let crews k is how long they’ll be sentenced to Bratislava for.

Posted: **Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:44 am**

sevenair wrote:
LJ wrote:
sevenair wrote:
No mention of these jobs only being until March next year as that's when Ryanair will 'stop flights'. Anyway, even if they keep flying, passengers will still need a visa and will still need to pay to go to the EU so won't be wanting to flying anyway. ?

You still ignor that due to the transition agreement the goal post has been moved to December 31st 2021. Moreover, why would they mention contractual provisions in an advertisement in which they hire staff (or to anyone except for those selected for an interview)? Our company never does that.

Oh I see. So yet again remoaners are moving the goalposts. Now it’s ‘after the transition’ period that flights will stop. Good to know.

Nope. Your government is. They effectively signed the UK to remain a vassal state of the EU until 2022.

JRM said it so it must be true.

Posted: **Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:04 am**

sevenair wrote:
ElPistolero wrote:
sevenair wrote:
Is it just me or is Ryanair ‘pivoting away’ from everywhere EXCEPT the UK? It’s a taste of what’s to come for UK as MOL did threaten to cancel domestic flights and remainers keep telling us that flights will be grounded. Chania closing, Timisoara closing, Athens losing a plane whereas they have continued to add aircraft to the UK and moved GLA to EDI.

Must be Brexit.

It is just you. Those aircraft are staying in the EU.

Ryanair announced it will be transferring planes from Athens and Chania to bases in Germany from the 1st of June where the airline is expanding its services

http://www.euronews.com/2018/04/11/ryan ... k-flights-

But since we're playing this cherry picking game:

The number of cars sold in the UK dropped 5.7% in 2017, according to industry body the Society of Motor Manufacturers & Traders, and ratings agency Moody's predicts a further 5.5% fall this year.

https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrations/

Maybe people are flying FR instead of driving.

Ryanair haven't removed a single aircraft from the UK. Instead they have added.

https://www.reuters.com/article/germany-vehicleregistrations/german-car-sales-fall-35-pct-in-march-to-348000-cars-source-idUSL5N1RH17Y

https://uk.motor1.com/news/238628/western-europe-car-sales-down/

Also not too great in Canada which is a free, sovereign nation just like we will be.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-canada-autos/canada-auto-sales-dip-as-economy-shows-signs-of-weakness-idUSKCN1HA1QL

Of course, the softening of car sales is 100% Brexit. Nothing to do with a slump in diesels after the German's cheaters tests and the fallout following that, punitive taxes for new car and premium cars here and absolutely nothing to do with the fact that e-cars are just still not affordable for the many.

Do you read the stories you post? The decline in the U.K. is a lot worse than in any country you've mentioned. A 0.6% decline in Canada is comparable to a 5.7% decline in the U.K. March 2018 recorded the second highest sales since 2011 in Canada, and the trends are good. The UK is forecasting another 5%+ decline.

Grasping for straws there buddy.

Posted: **Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:05 am**

sevenair wrote:
Despite Brexit

“Oh but the flights will stop”

61 months of growth - now remainiacs have realised their project fear is being debunked day by day now its now ‘until the transition ends’. If you keep moving the goalposts you’ll never be proven wrong!

Fair point.

Simple question: If Brexit is already reaping benefits, why have a transition at all?

Posted: **Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:44 pm**

ElPistolero wrote:
sevenair wrote:
Despite Brexit

“Oh but the flights will stop”

61 months of growth - now remainiacs have realised their project fear is being debunked day by day now its now ‘until the transition ends’. If you keep moving the goalposts you’ll never be proven wrong!

Fair point.

Simple question: If Brexit is already reaping benefits, why have a transition at all?

More importantly, if all these benefits are acheived while we’re still in the EU, why leave at all? :scratchchin:

Posted: **Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:46 pm**

scbriml wrote:
ElPistolero wrote:
sevenair wrote:
Despite Brexit

“Oh but the flights will stop”

61 months of growth - now remainiacs have realised their project fear is being debunked day by day now its now ‘until the transition ends’. If you keep moving the goalposts you’ll never be proven wrong!

Fair point.

Simple question: If Brexit is already reaping benefits, why have a transition at all?

More importantly, if all these benefits are acheived while we’re still in the EU, why leave at all?

Because you have limited autonomy and control of your own destiny

Posted: **Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:07 pm**

Still waiting for someone to give me a good reason why the UK should like the ECAA (especially given non-EU members are in it).

Posted: **Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:29 pm**

Freakysh wrote:
Because you have limited autonomy and control of your own destiny

In what way? Please don't give examples that have been proven in this thread to be nonsense.

Posted: **Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:54 pm**

The latest Notice to Stakeholders, this time on aviation safety:

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites/tr ... safety.pdf

Posted: **Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:20 pm**

ElPistolero wrote:
sevenair wrote:

Do you read the stories you post?.

Since the first of his articles first paragraph ends with "because of two fewer selling days", it is quite obvious he is picking his articles by headline.

Best regards
Thomas

Posted: **Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:24 pm**

scbriml wrote:
ElPistolero wrote:
sevenair wrote:
Despite Brexit

“Oh but the flights will stop”

61 months of growth - now remainiacs have realised their project fear is being debunked day by day now its now ‘until the transition ends’. If you keep moving the goalposts you’ll never be proven wrong!

Fair point.

Simple question: If Brexit is already reaping benefits, why have a transition at all?

More importantly, if all these benefits are acheived while we’re still in the EU, why leave at all?

.... and how did those airlines know to start the 61 month growth streak before the Brexit referendum had even been announced just 26 month ago?
:scratchchin:

Best regards
Thomas

Posted: **Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:29 pm**

I’m sure you’re all grinning like a Cheshire Cat but 90% of JLR products bought in the UK has fallen by 26% which was overwhelmingly the reason why JLR are right sizing their operation. Brexit was a small part only. I doubt very much that it has much of an impact.

Remember: if it’s good news it’s not because of Brexit it’s because ‘we are still in the EU’ and if it’s bad news it’s absolutely ‘because of Brexit’.

Posted: **Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:53 pm**

Freakysh wrote:
Because you have limited autonomy and control of your own destiny

How much "autonomy" and "control of our own destiny" do you think a small country actually has on its own?

sevenair wrote:
Remember: if it’s good news it’s not because of Brexit it’s because ‘we are still in the EU’ and if it’s bad news it’s absolutely ‘because of Brexit’.

It's just as valid a viewpoint as your polar opposite. :wave:

Posted: **Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:07 pm**

sevenair wrote:
I’m sure you’re all grinning like a Cheshire Cat but 90% of JLR products bought in the UK has fallen by 26% which was overwhelmingly the reason why JLR are right sizing their operation. Brexit was a small part only. I doubt very much that it has much of an impact.

Remember: if it’s good news it’s not because of Brexit it’s because ‘we are still in the EU’ and if it’s bad news it’s absolutely ‘because of Brexit’.

Nobody celebrates job losses. The closest you're going to get to people "grinning like a Cheshire Cat" at the prospect of people losing their jobs are the folk who believe significant economic damage is a price worth paying for Brexit. You know:

Nearly 40 per cent of Leave voters said that the loss of their own or a family member’s job would be “a price worth paying” for Brexit.

https://www.ft.com/content/1b636ba8-76b ... 495fe6ca71

Perhaps you're one of them?

In any event, answer the question: if Brexit is already resulting in benefits, why bother with a transition?

Posted: **Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:30 pm**

sevenair wrote:
Remember: if it’s good news it’s not because of Brexit it’s because ‘we are still in the EU’ and if it’s bad news it’s absolutely ‘because of Brexit’.

No sevenair:

Remember: we are still in the EU and subject to EU rules (that you supposedly despise) so how can you claim *ANY* benefit from leaving at this point?!!!!!!

Posted: **Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:39 am**

Richard28 wrote:
sevenair wrote:
Remember: if it’s good news it’s not because of Brexit it’s because ‘we are still in the EU’ and if it’s bad news it’s absolutely ‘because of Brexit’.

No sevenair:

Remember: we are still in the EU and subject to EU rules (that you supposedly despise) so how can you claim *ANY* benefit from leaving at this point?!!!!!!

Easy.. with the UK practically not involved in EU decisions any more, the EU already runs so much better that even the UK, still a member, benefits...

Best regards
Thomas

Posted: **Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:30 pm**

Oh I see another billionaire is trying to overturn Brexit. Soros backed 'People's Vote to be precise'. Toughen up princesses - we are leaving the EU no matter what we think Picard would have voted. You lot still don't get it do you?

There should never be a vote on the deal. The EU want us to stay and they'll give us a bad deal mowing that the result would be to remain. Keeping this option off the table keeps talks sensible and gives them a better chance of succeeding. Most polls show that people simply want to get on with it now regardless of what the hardcore remainers like Branson and MOL and their new found fan clubs feel.

Brexit means Brexit.

Posted: **Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:50 pm**

sevenair wrote:
Brexit means Brexit.

Posted: **Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:54 pm**

sevenair wrote:
Oh I see another billionaire is trying to overturn Brexit. Soros backed 'People's Vote to be precise'.

If it's a vote, the public has to buy in to the billionaire's vision. He can hardly overturn it by himself. If the public votes to overturn it, that's democracy, innit?

sevenair wrote:
Toughen up princesses - we are leaving the EU no matter what we think Picard would have voted. You lot still don't get it do you?

If you're leaving the EU, how does it matter what Picard or any other remainer thinks of it? If it's a nailed on certainty, why the insecurity, snowflake?

sevenair wrote:
There should never be a vote on the deal. The EU want us to stay and they'll give us a bad deal mowing that the result would be to remain. Keeping this option off the table keeps talks sensible and gives them a better chance of succeeding. Most polls show that people simply want to get on with it now regardless of what the hardcore remainers like Branson and MOL and their new found fan clubs feel.

If Brexit means Brexit, and everyone just wants to get on with it, why do you think the EU offering a bad deal will change peoples' minds?

Surely your fellow Leave voters aren't too dim to see through EU tactics and wouldn't become remainder. Presumably they're bright enough to understand that the EU has no obligation to make Brexit a success - that's squarely on you Leavers.

The sudden lack of faith in the conviction of Leave voters is ... surprising. At least try to be consistent?

Also, you never answered the question. If Brexit is working out so well, why is there a transition period?

Posted: **Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:41 pm**

sevenair wrote:
There should never be a vote on the deal.

Oh yes there should!

sevenair wrote:
Most polls show that people simply want to get on with it now

Oh no they don't!

sevenair wrote:
Brexit means Brexit.

And in this pantomime we still don't know, and the Government still do not know what that means!

Democracy does not stand still!

#exitbrexit
https://www.peoples-vote.uk/

Posted: **Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:54 pm**

ElPistolero wrote:
Also, you never answered the question. If Brexit is working out so well, why is there a transition period?

Actually, die hard Brexit supporters argue that they don't need nor want a transition period. They argue that May isn't pro-Brexit at all and think she does her best to prevent the UK leaving the EU. Moreover, these are the people who favour a Brexit regardless of the impact on the UK economy. In essence, they feel that Brexit is not working out so well as they aren't leaving as of March 29 2019.

Posted: **Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:04 pm**

sevenair wrote:
There should never be a vote on the deal. The EU want us to stay and they'll give us a bad deal mowing that the result would be to remain. Keeping this option off the table keeps talks sensible and gives them a better chance of succeeding.

As such you'll back any deal which the UK concludes? I wonder as this works both ways. Not only the Remainders should not complain, but the same should apply to the Leavers if the deal is not up to their expectations.

As for the EU, your conclusion is that the EU would give the UK a very bad deal, only to be rejected at a referendum However, in such a situation there would be a "no-deal" situation, which is not desired by the EU. Therefore you can also argue that in case of a referndum, the EU must give the UK a good deal (or at least one which would be acceptabe to the majority of Biritsh voters) to ensure a "deal" situation. Thus the way you look at the EU seems to determine the way the EU would react to a referendum. Moreover, if you are certain that the UK public agrees with your view, why not hold a referendum on it? Or do you fear that people don't want your type of Brexit and thus will agree to something you don't like?

Posted: **Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:02 pm**

Richard28 wrote:
sevenair wrote:
There should never be a vote on the deal.

Oh yes there should!
/

You guys are all aware that even with a referendum on the final deal, if the people vote "No", it means we simply leave with no deal and thus see a massive shitstorm? The EU isn't going to change the deal just because we say no to it.

Honestly, these people would be far better campaigning for an EFTA-EEA Brexit which at least has plenty of positives.

Posted: **Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:44 pm**

sevenair wrote:
The EU want us to stay.....

Are you sure about that?

Well, Brexit isn't really an issue among EU27. Certainly not any front cover issue.

But if it had been so, and we (the EU27) then really had been exposed to the name calling etc. going on,
and if a referendum in EU27 about expelling the UK was arranged, then what outcome would you expect?

If you ask EU27 citizens about Brexit, then first of all millions will comment, "wasn't that last year, or the year before last year?"
The better informed will typically say, "if those ..... could just decide what they want so we can get it over with."

Posted: **Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:51 pm**

UltimoTiger777 wrote:

You guys are all aware that even with a referendum on the final deal, if the people vote "No", it means we simply leave with no deal and thus see a massive shitstorm? The EU isn't going to change the deal just because we say no to it.

Honestly, these people would be far better campaigning for an EFTA-EEA Brexit which at least has plenty of positives.

Alternatively, a "no" vote could trigger an extension of the transition deal and result in a new vote (referendum/parliamentary) on Brexit itself. Why do you think Leavers, who otherwise favour a hard Brexit, are against a second referendum?

I don't think people voting "no" expect the EU to change its terms. The "no" vote wont be directed against the EU. It'll be directed against Brexiters. As much as you may hate to admit it, these calls and demands are all symptoms of a country deeply divided.

The solutions you suggest may work, but will they make Brexiteers happy? I don't think any outcome will make the majority happy. And I don't think that divide is going away for a couple of generations.

Posted: **Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:53 pm**

LJ wrote:
ElPistolero wrote:
Also, you never answered the question. If Brexit is working out so well, why is there a transition period?

Actually, die hard Brexit supporters argue that they don't need nor want a transition period. They argue that May isn't pro-Brexit at all and think she does her best to prevent the UK leaving the EU. Moreover, these are the people who favour a Brexit regardless of the impact on the UK economy. In essence, they feel that Brexit is not working out so well as they aren't leaving as of March 29 2019.

That is true, but I recall Sevenair cheering the transition deal announcement. Which suggests that he is not one of them. Of that he's really quite confused.

Posted: **Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:53 am**

Brexit trio of doom

You know the drill: 'it's because we are still in', 'they're all zero hour contracts (much debunked)', or just move the goalposts and reignite project fear as our Independence Day approaches and say we will suffer. Or despite whining about low interest rates for years watch the political left get outraged by interest rate increases.

Airliners.net

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