Just over the news lines, Robert Mueller has delivered indictment's against 13 Russians. The indictments were delivered by Mueller, not the Justice Department which may raise questions later. The Russians are all overseas so they are out of reach, but the clarity of evidence will make it hard for Trump to deny - though his buddy Puitin may order him to.

This is going to be a long term issue and the Special Investigator has a lot of work to do.

Both CNN and MSNBC are running the story

And just like that the school shooting story is history. On to the next big bombshell!

I love it.

A kangaroo's courtship ?

No involvement by Trump and did not change the outcome. Media will keep reciting the words "interfering" and "meddling" still as a way to cope with a Hillary loss which is causing mental illness with many in the MSM and DNC.

I also believe the DOJ did this now because it just broke that someone called the FBI and warned them last month about the Florida shooter and they did NOTHING. Not even a phone call to the school or local law enforcement. That is a major league blunder and could have saved some lives. Which will knock the shooting out of the news cycle.

Ken777 wrote:

Jbut the clarity of evidence will make it hard for Trump to deny

Since when is Trump stopped by something as superficial as evidence and facts?

NIKV69 wrote:

I also believe the DOJ did this now because it just broke that someone called the FBI and warned them last month about the Florida shooter and they did NOTHING. Not even a phone call to the school or local law enforcement. That is a major league blunder and could have saved some lives. Which will knock the shooting out of the news cycle.

I get why people are asking but what were they supposed to do? Its not like they can just arrest someone for being a creep or because someone said they made a threat.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

This issue in exposing the Russians will be pivotal in who they talked to on the US side, and which sites were influenced. There was a lot of misinformation pushed during the campaign, and it will be interesting to see who was funding it. The funny thing is that so called American Patriot Conservatives will not care , as this puts a lot of the Trump campaign in league with the Russians.

NIKV69 wrote:

No involvement by Trump and did not change the outcome. Media will keep reciting the words "interfering" and "meddling" still as a way to cope with a Hillary loss which is causing mental illness with many in the MSM and DNC.

I also believe the DOJ did this now because it just broke that someone called the FBI and warned them last month about the Florida shooter and they did NOTHING. Not even a phone call to the school or local law enforcement. That is a major league blunder and could have saved some lives. Which will knock the shooting out of the news cycle.

You pretend as if they can only do one thing at a time. They are organizations with thousands of employees. Go back to watching your Russian funded right wing news sites that claim otherwise.


The FBI will have a reckoning point about why they didn't look into the threats, but it probably was due to no actionable intel, and the fact that the GOP and NRA make it possible for mentally ill folks to own a gun.

Dutchy wrote:

Ken777 wrote:

Jbut the clarity of evidence will make it hard for Trump to deny

Since when is Trump stopped by something as superficial as evidence and facts?

Here are the facts.

13 guys from Russia came here. Set up some social media and posted negative things about Hillary. Trump was never aware and was never contacted. In fact low level campaign were and did not know what was going on.

So by watching the presser today it painfully clear Trump or his campaign had no knowledge and had no involvement. Nor did any of this really change anything.

So with these facts I don't see any indictment of Trump or anyone involved with him. So I am not sure why this is being stroked in the media (actually I do) but this whole witch hunt which was designed to impeach and remove a president that the left loathes and now has fallen flat on his face.

CCGPV wrote:

NIKV69 wrote:

I also believe the DOJ did this now because it just broke that someone called the FBI and warned them last month about the Florida shooter and they did NOTHING. Not even a phone call to the school or local law enforcement. That is a major league blunder and could have saved some lives. Which will knock the shooting out of the news cycle.

I get why people are asking but what were they supposed to do? Its not like they can just arrest someone for being a creep or because someone said they made a threat.

No but a simple phone call to the school and or local police could have made a difference and is the right thing to do once this info is received.

NIKV69 wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

Ken777 wrote:

Jbut the clarity of evidence will make it hard for Trump to deny

Since when is Trump stopped by something as superficial as evidence and facts?

Here are the facts.

13 guys from Russia came here. Set up some social media and posted negative things about Hillary. Trump was never aware and was never contacted. In fact low level campaign were and did not know what was going on.

So by watching the presser today it painfully clear Trump or his campaign had no knowledge and had no involvement. Nor did any of this really change anything.

So with these facts I don't see any indictment of Trump or anyone involved with him. So I am not sure why this is being stroked in the media (actually I do) but this whole witch hunt which was designed to impeach and remove a president that the left loathes and now has fallen flat on his face.

Wow! We have an insider on this site.....

NIKV69 wrote:

13 guys from Russia came here. Set up some social media and posted negative things about Hillary. .

Smart of Trump to hire Russian nationals for his smear campaign. Russia wouldn't co-operate in an investigation, and even if they would, that could be painted as trying to harm the USA. Smart!

To bad the FSB got wind of it, threatened to expose him, and blackmailed him into becoming an asset. And now Putin got him by the balls....

That is why he is so terrified if the FBI looking at his and his families financials. Not because people may find out he isn't as rich as he claims to be, it is because of those payments to the Russians.

This day and age everything is more realistic than what is said as a white house press conference.

Best regards
Thomas

Dutchy wrote:

NIKV69 wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

Since when is Trump stopped by something as superficial as evidence and facts?

Here are the facts.

13 guys from Russia came here. Set up some social media and posted negative things about Hillary. Trump was never aware and was never contacted. In fact low level campaign were and did not know what was going on.

So by watching the presser today it painfully clear Trump or his campaign had no knowledge and had no involvement. Nor did any of this really change anything.

So with these facts I don't see any indictment of Trump or anyone involved with him. So I am not sure why this is being stroked in the media (actually I do) but this whole witch hunt which was designed to impeach and remove a president that the left loathes and now has fallen flat on his face.

Wow! We have an insider on this site.....

Again, the certainty with which such people think such things (including the certainty of a conspiracy by the FBI to deflect attention from the school shooting) while completely dismissing others is absolutely remarkable.

tommy1808 wrote:

Smart of Trump to hire Russian nationals for his smear campaign.

Thomas

I must have missed that in the indictment this morning. Way to pull that right out of your rear end. Trump didn't hire anyone. Did you read the indictment?


https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/16/politics ... index.html

NIKV69 wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

Ken777 wrote:

Jbut the clarity of evidence will make it hard for Trump to deny

Since when is Trump stopped by something as superficial as evidence and facts?

Here are the facts.

13 guys from Russia came here. Set up some social media and posted negative things about Hillary. Trump was never aware and was never contacted. In fact low level campaign were and did not know what was going on.

So by watching the presser today it painfully clear Trump or his campaign had no knowledge and had no involvement. Nor did any of this really change anything.

So with these facts I don't see any indictment of Trump or anyone involved with him. So I am not sure why this is being stroked in the media (actually I do) but this whole witch hunt which was designed to impeach and remove a president that the left loathes and now has fallen flat on his face.

CCGPV wrote:

NIKV69 wrote:

I also believe the DOJ did this now because it just broke that someone called the FBI and warned them last month about the Florida shooter and they did NOTHING. Not even a phone call to the school or local law enforcement. That is a major league blunder and could have saved some lives. Which will knock the shooting out of the news cycle.

I get why people are asking but what were they supposed to do? Its not like they can just arrest someone for being a creep or because someone said they made a threat.

No but a simple phone call to the school and or local police could have made a difference and is the right thing to do once this info is received.

The school expelled the kid so they knew about him. Even if they'd had a heads up what were they supposed to do? Be more aware of school shootings than they already are? They can't hire extra security guards and have it on lockdown every time a student makes a threat.

tommy1808 wrote:

Smart of Trump to hire Russian nationals for his smear campaign.

No more Tide-Pods for you.

********

Source please

Okie

Okie wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

Smart of Trump to hire Russian nationals for his smear campaign.

No more Tide-Pods for you.

********

Source please

Okie

Damn, if only we lefties had one of those Hannities or Alex Jones that we could immediately link to to "prove" whatever we needed to prove.

Let me try a rightie strategy . . .

Source that he didn't?

This indictment isn't the last of Mueller's investigation. I don't see anywhere that the DOJ is saying they've concluded their work. What they're saying in THIS indictment, which I believe is now the fifth one under Mueller, is that it does not allege any knowing cooperation with the cited Russians. But we must always remember that the Special Prosecutor simply follows his nose wherever it goes, and I doubt highly that Mueller is done looking at Trump stink trail of 30 year bullshit. It's what led Ken Starr to a semen-stained dress resulting from adult consensual sex all the way from a nothing burger about a real estate transaction called White Water.

Don't get too excited NIK, in the NFL this is called the Pre Game Show. I remain exceedingly comfortable that Trump will either be forced from office or resign before his four years are up, or he will at minimum be elected out with the highest disapproval rating of any president in modern history. I can't think of a more deserving scumbag for that title. He's like watching Russian car crashes on You Tube, mesmerizing and brutally fucked up, but no thanks riding in that wagon.

wingman wrote:

Don't get too excited NIK, in the NFL this is called the Pre Game Show. I remain exceedingly comfortable that Trump will either be forced from office or resign before his four years are up, or he will at minimum be elected out with the highest disapproval rating of any president in modern history. I can't think of a more deserving scumbag for that title. He's like watching Russian car crashes on You Tube, mesmerizing and brutally fucked up, but no thanks riding in that wagon.

As is with our current political climate and media bias your comments are hardly surprising. Trump derangement syndrome has this effect. If you want to continue to indulge in this Nixon like thing go right ahead but trust me if Mueller had any evidence against Trump he would have been gone a long time ago. An election loss is more of a possibility if the DNC can actually produce a candidate that isn't a far left zealot that has nothing to bring but name calling with a high tax, weak defense, open border doctrine.

We have gotten away from democracy in more ways than just 13 Russians. We have failed to accept elections, used propaganda from the 24 hour news cycle to insult and destroy the opposition with fear mongering and slander. I can only see what lows the MSM will go this fall.

NIKV69 wrote:

wingman wrote:

Don't get too excited NIK, in the NFL this is called the Pre Game Show. I remain exceedingly comfortable that Trump will either be forced from office or resign before his four years are up, or he will at minimum be elected out with the highest disapproval rating of any president in modern history. I can't think of a more deserving scumbag for that title. He's like watching Russian car crashes on You Tube, mesmerizing and brutally fucked up, but no thanks riding in that wagon.

As is with our current political climate and media bias your comments are hardly surprising. Trump derangement syndrome has this effect. If you want to continue to indulge in this Nixon like thing go right ahead but trust me if Mueller had any evidence against Trump he would have been gone a long time ago. An election loss is more of a possibility if the DNC can actually produce a candidate that isn't a far left zealot that has nothing to bring but name calling with a high tax, weak defense, open border doctrine.

We have gotten away from democracy in more ways than just 13 Russians. We have failed to accept elections, used propaganda from the 24 hour news cycle to insult and destroy the opposition with fear mongering and slander. I can only see what lows the MSM will go this fall.

Oh how happy I am that these posts will be archived for prosperity. We all know how your Roy Moore prediction worked out.

Anyhoo . . . are you calling the whole lot of us deranged? I thought you didn't like name-calling.

wingman wrote:

This indictment isn't the last of Mueller's investigation. I don't see anywhere that the DOJ is saying they've concluded their work. What they're saying in THIS indictment, which I believe is now the fifth one under Mueller, is that it does not allege any knowing cooperation with the cited Russians. But we must always remember that the Special Prosecutor simply follows his nose wherever it goes, and I doubt highly that Mueller is done looking at Trump stink trail of 30 year bullshit. It's what led Ken Starr to a semen-stained dress resulting from adult consensual sex all the way from a nothing burger about a real estate transaction called White Water.

I honestly think it'd be hard to limit the investigation to only '30 years' when there's been so much naked fraud and conning that he was famous for in the 70s/80s/90s. Everyone knew he dealt with various mobs but is that something you can include in this investigation? Also funny you should mention that dress. We have a dress! Maybe the evangelicals could include it in their worship service now.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/02/15/ ... port-says/

MaverickM11 wrote:

wingman wrote:

This indictment isn't the last of Mueller's investigation. I don't see anywhere that the DOJ is saying they've concluded their work. What they're saying in THIS indictment, which I believe is now the fifth one under Mueller, is that it does not allege any knowing cooperation with the cited Russians. But we must always remember that the Special Prosecutor simply follows his nose wherever it goes, and I doubt highly that Mueller is done looking at Trump stink trail of 30 year bullshit. It's what led Ken Starr to a semen-stained dress resulting from adult consensual sex all the way from a nothing burger about a real estate transaction called White Water.

I honestly think it'd be hard to limit the investigation to only '30 years' when there's been so much naked fraud and conning that he was famous for in the 70s/80s/90s. Everyone knew he dealt with various mobs but is that something you can include in this investigation? Also funny you should mention that dress. We have a dress! Maybe the evangelicals could include it in their worship service now.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/02/15/ ... port-says/

These guys love conspiracies SO MUCH that they can't see one when it's staring them blindly in the eye!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's hilarious!

jetero wrote:

Oh how happy I am that these posts will be archived for prosperity. We all know how your Roy Moore prediction worked out.

Anyhoo . . . are you calling the whole lot of us deranged? I thought you didn't like name-calling.

Did you even read my post?

NIKV69 wrote:

jetero wrote:

Oh how happy I am that these posts will be archived for prosperity. We all know how your Roy Moore prediction worked out.

Anyhoo . . . are you calling the whole lot of us deranged? I thought you didn't like name-calling.

Did you even read my post?

If it's a "syndrome" it's not an insult? Is that the rule?

So I can say you have Fact Blindness Syndrome?

Make no mistake. The Cold War never ended.

Goodyear wrote:

Make no mistake. The Cold War never ended.

Spot on! I’m sure there aren’t any Americans in Russia right now working behind the scenes , setting up fake websites etc

These Russian are pikers compared to what the USA has done in other countries to swing elections, including in Russia after the fall of the USSR, Ukraine, and for generations in dozens of other countries.

Those indicted will never go to trial in the USA, about the worst they can do is put them on 'no fly' and no Visas lists. It for now leaves open the question of direct collusion with the Trump campaign. For sure we see a well organized campaign to get sanctions off Russia and the 'Oligarchs' by mostly attacking HRC, including supporting some of the more public nasty ones (Hillary4Prison). For sure they were spending money to support anyone but Clinton, and for any Republican. Mostly this is the 'social media' side of the Russian's program. we still are waiting on the alleged hacking of DNC, and state election databases.

We may never be able to determine how much the Russians affected the elections, but for sure it raises questions such as de facto if not 'official' spies were trying to undermine our government and elections for their benefit. To me this is the 'end of the beginning' of the investigation of Russian influence in our elections and needs to go a lot farther. We are also waiting for the investigations as to Trump and his family's financial conflicts with Russian investors with their desire to support Trump to end sanctions.

CCGPV wrote:

NIKV69 wrote:

I also believe the DOJ did this now because it just broke that someone called the FBI and warned them last month about the Florida shooter and they did NOTHING. Not even a phone call to the school or local law enforcement. That is a major league blunder and could have saved some lives. Which will knock the shooting out of the news cycle.

I get why people are asking but what were they supposed to do? Its not like they can just arrest someone for being a creep or because someone said they made a threat.

That's where search warrants and conspiracy to commit murder charges come in.

CCGPV wrote:

NIKV69 wrote:

I also believe the DOJ did this now because it just broke that someone called the FBI and warned them last month about the Florida shooter and they did NOTHING. Not even a phone call to the school or local law enforcement. That is a major league blunder and could have saved some lives. Which will knock the shooting out of the news cycle.

I get why people are asking but what were they supposed to do? Its not like they can just arrest someone for being a creep or because someone said they made a threat.

That's where search warrants and conspiracy to commit murder charges come in.

TWA772LR wrote:

CCGPV wrote:

NIKV69 wrote:

I also believe the DOJ did this now because it just broke that someone called the FBI and warned them last month about the Florida shooter and they did NOTHING. Not even a phone call to the school or local law enforcement. That is a major league blunder and could have saved some lives. Which will knock the shooting out of the news cycle.

I get why people are asking but what were they supposed to do? Its not like they can just arrest someone for being a creep or because someone said they made a threat.

That's where search warrants and conspiracy to commit murder charges come in.

Is it possible to conspire with one’s self? (Excluding the voices in one’s head.)

TWA772LR wrote:

CCGPV wrote:

NIKV69 wrote:

I also believe the DOJ did this now because it just broke that someone called the FBI and warned them last month about the Florida shooter and they did NOTHING. Not even a phone call to the school or local law enforcement. That is a major league blunder and could have saved some lives. Which will knock the shooting out of the news cycle.

I get why people are asking but what were they supposed to do? Its not like they can just arrest someone for being a creep or because someone said they made a threat.

That's where search warrants and conspiracy to commit murder charges come in.

They execute a search warrant at his house. Then what? They find a bunch of legal guns? Take his computer and find vaguely worded posts on social media? Not a crime. Its not illegal to call yourself "a future school shooter." Sure, you might get questioned but that's about it.

There's nothing criminal about being a complete idiot POS. Until he carries the gun onto school grounds he's not really done anything illegal unless he admits to planning it.

This is one fault of a "free society." We often have to be reactive when it comes to basic rights.

ltbewr wrote:

These Russian are pikers compared to what the USA has done in other countries to swing elections, including in Russia after the fall of the USSR, Ukraine, and for generations in dozens of other countries.

Let me translate:

It is okay that Russia did this to us because tRump is now president and saved us from the Muslim Kenyan who destroyed 'Murica. Because Russia did this to us, as payback for what "we" did around the world, it was great they interfered with our election and ltbewr and the right support the interference.

seb146 wrote:

ltbewr wrote:

These Russian are pikers compared to what the USA has done in other countries to swing elections, including in Russia after the fall of the USSR, Ukraine, and for generations in dozens of other countries.

Let me translate:

It is okay that Russia did this to us because tRump is now president and saved us from the Muslim Kenyan who destroyed 'Murica. Because Russia did this to us, as payback for what "we" did around the world, it was great they interfered with our election and ltbewr and the right support the interference.

In fairness I think what he said was a bit more complicated and nuanced.

But then again I didn’t get the “brosband” thing.

CCGPV wrote:

TWA772LR wrote:

CCGPV wrote:

I get why people are asking but what were they supposed to do? Its not like they can just arrest someone for being a creep or because someone said they made a threat.

That's where search warrants and conspiracy to commit murder charges come in.

They execute a search warrant at his house. Then what? They find a bunch of legal guns? Take his computer and find vaguely worded posts on social media? Not a crime. Its not illegal to call yourself "a future school shooter." Sure, you might get questioned but that's about it.

There's nothing criminal about being a complete idiot POS. Until he carries the gun onto school grounds he's not really done anything illegal unless he admits to planning it.

This is one fault of a "free society." We often have to be reactive when it comes to basic rights.

If there were a “like” button I’d press it. Have not gotten involved in the gun control threads because, notwithstanding the fact that I find the idea of wanting to own one crazy, I also think we the left need to acknowledge that essentially all of those who are licensed to carry such things behave responsibly. I’d be a hypocrite otherwise ... it’d be like arguing against gay marriage because you have a stereotype that most gay men sleep with everything that walks.

CCGPV wrote:

TWA772LR wrote:

CCGPV wrote:

I get why people are asking but what were they supposed to do? Its not like they can just arrest someone for being a creep or because someone said they made a threat.

That's where search warrants and conspiracy to commit murder charges come in.

They execute a search warrant at his house. Then what? They find a bunch of legal guns? Take his computer and find vaguely worded posts on social media? Not a crime. Its not illegal to call yourself "a future school shooter." Sure, you might get questioned but that's about it.

There's nothing criminal about being a complete idiot POS. Until he carries the gun onto school grounds he's not really done anything illegal unless he admits to planning it.

This is one fault of a "free society." We often have to be reactive when it comes to basic rights.

If there were a “like” button I’d press it. Have not gotten involved in the gun control threads because, notwithstanding the fact that I find the idea of wanting to own one crazy, I also think we the left need to acknowledge that essentially all of those who are licensed to carry such things behave responsibly. I’d be a hypocrite otherwise ... it’d be like arguing against gay marriage because you have a stereotype that most gay men sleep with everything that walks.

Hey NIKV69 - what, if anything, could Trump do in office that would make him lose your support? List them please.
He should be removed from office *already*; he has refused to enforce a Russian sanctions law passed by Congress and refuses to acknowledge the Russian threat to our Republic, both of which are violations of his oath of office. And why is it that 30+ members of his close staff are still on interim clearances?

jetero wrote:

If it's a "syndrome

wingman wrote:

This asshole's heart can't explode fast enough. Just die already dickface.

It most certainly is.

NIKV69 wrote:

jetero wrote:

If it's a "syndrome

wingman wrote:

This asshole's heart can't explode fast enough. Just die already dickface.

It most certainly is.

Q.E.D., en el estilo selectivo de Nikky V!

Again, grateful that these are digitally preserved in perpetuity. You’re sure to be in the Smithsonian NV! I can think of an exhibit now ... starting with the Roy Moore prediction, then your “whores, money, and booze” post (why not just start with that? ... would’ve gotten quite a following, including me), then ending in, well, we’re all waiting patiently.

ltbewr wrote:

We may never be able to determine how much the Russians affected the elections

Anybody who is informed on the matter and not blinded by Hate for Hillary or love of Trump can see that actions by the Russians undoubtedly reversed the course of the election and gave the win to Trump.

It is acknowledged by most honest analysts that the fact alone that Comey re-opened the investigation into the E-mails on the eve of the election, gave the election to Trump. The E-mail "scandal" was purely the result of Russian hacking the DNC files. That alone proves the case. But in the last year, it has come out how broad and intense the Russian attack on social media had been. In an election where the result was so close that the loser actually garnered three million votes more than the winner, and the decision was awarded as result of a quirk in the rules, that social media attack surely had a decisive effect. Then there were the made up news stories............

Putin gave the Presidency to Trump, there's no doubt about it.

Dutchy wrote:

Ken777 wrote:

Jbut the clarity of evidence will make it hard for Trump to deny

Since when is Trump stopped by something as superficial as evidence and facts?

By the way, since you appear to be Dutch (I don't know what would make me think that), I just want to thank a Dutch person for the incredible efforts by the Netherlands to help expose everything that has happened in regards to Russian "Information warfare". Thank you for helping sane Americans fight back against the Khmer Rubes.

Since this is website has a very international mix of members, I'm really curious about European opinions on all this. With what's happened to the US, Brexit, Ukraine, and far-right political movements in Europe, I really hope you all can see what's happening and not fall prey to it too.

Putin's Russia has made it clear they intend to destabilize the "west", we're all in this together.

Edit: oh right, I forgot to give the Russians a shout out for the mess in Turkey as well! Cobbling information together I saw from Turks during and in the immediate aftermath of the coup attempt, it's to my understanding THAT was about Russia too. When they were meddling with the Turkish government they forgot about the Turkish constitution. Unfortunately it seems that they've managed to neutralize any knowledge of that within their borders due to the failure of the coup attempt.

Since the accusations are strong enough to proceed, we need to ask ourselves the question why did the Russians want Trump to be president? Given the Russian mentality/dogma of thinking in win-lose, the Russians made the assumption that Trump was the person to make America weaker on the world stage and make America weaker internally.

Dutchy wrote:

Since the accusations are strong enough to proceed, we need to ask ourselves the question why did the Russians want Trump to be president? Given the Russian mentality/dogma of thinking in win-lose, the Russians made the assumption that Trump was the person to make America weaker on the world stage and make America weaker internally.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics

This pretty much explains the strategy.

They wanted Trump in power to turn us Isolationist. To weaken our global clout so they could fill the void.

I've been closely following their actions and paying attention to what people in other countries have been saying about it since they invaded Ukraine.

Dutchy wrote:

Since the accusations are strong enough to proceed, we need to ask ourselves the question why did the Russians want Trump to be president?

Trump was angry that America never showed him the respect that he deserved. Putin just hopped on the rolling train from someone hellbend to destroy the US anyways. Win-win.

Best regards
Thomas

Jouhou wrote:

By the way, since you appear to be Dutch (I don't know what would make me think that), I just want to thank a Dutch person for the incredible efforts by the Netherlands to help expose everything that has happened in regards to Russian "Information warfare". Thank you for helping sane Americans fight back against the Khmer Rubes.

You want to thank a random Dutch person for something he had no part in? Ok, thank you, I guess. If you want to really thank the right person just put it in an e-mail and send it to a random person in Europe, I am sure they will pick it up

Jouhou wrote:

Since this is website has a very international mix of members, I'm really curious about European opinions on all this. With what's happened to the US, Brexit, Ukraine, and far-right political movements in Europe, I really hope you all can see what's happening and not fall prey to it too.

Putin's Russia has made it clear they intend to destabilize the "west", we're all in this together.

My opinion is that Russia plays the win-lose game to the max. The Kremlin way of thinking seems to be to weaken the west will lead to a stronger Russia and therefore is pushing the Putin's agenda. The same trend as in America, support the weaker polarization candidate and weakening the more stable powers and politicians whom want to push for a stronger and more integrated EU. In many European countries, the parliamentarian system isn't winner taking it all, France and Britain are notably different with their district system.
Brexit --> Brittian out of the EU weakens Brittian and the EU --> pro-Brexit probably, there are strong evidence towards this
Ukraine --> 1) Dutch referendum on Ukraine --> anti-Ukraine, there are strong evidence towards this. 2) MH17 shoot down, you see many tolls defending the Russian position on Dutch fora. 3) You see a lot of people defending the Russian position of the annexation of Crimea and the destabilization of Ukraine in general.
Far-right political movements --> with Front National it is quite clear there was Russian involvement, from a Russian loan and general support, there is strong evidence that also the Russian trolls are working their thing in France. There is strong evidence that the troll factory in St. Pietersberg did support, Alternative Für Deutschland, Forum voor Democratie/PVV, UKIP, Front National etc. etc. etc.

The EU is trying to combat this stream of fake news which I am against, no government should have a role in making a decision what is fake news or Russian propaganda. They do have a role in combating troll factories and contra espionage, like the Dutch seem to have done. I think the most important thing is to train the citizens to think for themselves and have a critical press core and thus a well funded independent press, like the BBC. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Kkib-3ruvI

European (and America's) democracies are stronger than Russia's ways to destabilize and undermine it.

Also, just to plant the idea... You know what would completely muck up Russia's strategy? If the US and Europe were able to make peace with Iran. They've been desperately trying to foil the success of the nuke deal. That appears to be something that scares them.

NIKV69 wrote:

No involvement by Trump and did not change the outcome. Media will keep reciting the words "interfering" and "meddling" still as a way to cope with a Hillary loss which is causing mental illness with many in the MSM and DNC.

I also believe the DOJ did this now because it just broke that someone called the FBI and warned them last month about the Florida shooter and they did NOTHING. Not even a phone call to the school or local law enforcement. That is a major league blunder and could have saved some lives. Which will knock the shooting out of the news cycle.

Does the fact that it didn't change the outcome make it any less concerning that this took place to begin with? Is meddling in our election process by foreigners OK as long as only so many votes were affected? Is that how this works? We should welcome this investigation and hope it continues rather than trying to shut it down. Regardless of whether Trump and his cronies are found to have any involvement or not, we need to get the full story of what happened and maybe learn what can be doe to prevent it it in future elections. And if anyone who is in this country is found to be complicit they should stand trial

No tweets this AM . . . someone has Bozo on lockdown!

No response from Moscow yet. Presumably because they are rolling on the floor laughing so hard they haven't yet been able to pick themselves back up.

After over a year and no doubt tens of millions of dollars spent the best they can come up with is a few poor sods charged with "lying to the FBI" (the rich person's version of "resisting arrest", i.e., a policeman's best friend) and some charges against people that will never see a day in court for... making posts on social media regarding U.S. elections despite not being U.S. citizens! They better start building bigger jails if that is now a crime, as half this forum, for starters, is going straight to jail...

In the meantime, in the same time frame, as the Democrats have been digging through the mud to keep this whole charade alive all the way up until the mid-terms to try to score some political points, here is just a small summary of the confirmed facts we have been able to find out as the mound of shit they have been throwing up in the air has been collapsing around them:
- The investigation exonerating Hillary and trying to find anything whatsoever against Trump was/is being conducted by partisan hacks
- One of those partisan hacks who supposedly was investigating Clinton for breaches of information security protocol was so well-versed in information security himself he was openly discussing the case through text messages with the side-chick he was banging (also, discussing how the then-POTUS wanted to know everything they were doing)
- Comey started drafting the speech exonerating Clinton for her crimes months before she had been interviewed and the investigation had been concluded
- The information that Comey gave Congress a week or so before the election and for which he gets such a bad rap (that e-mails were found in Anthony Weiner's computer) was apparently circulating within the top echelons of the FBI (unclear yet if all the way up to Comey himself, but certainly to his deputy) a month before his letter to Congress
- The DNC themselves confirmed Hillary co-opted the party funding and machinery (and likely committed money laundering in the process...) even before she got officially nominated.
- It was confirmed that Hillary's campaign paid for a former British spy to manufacture a hit piece on Trump
- That same hit piece / vicious smear was then used by the FBI (with the likely blessing and encouragement of the former administration) to obtain warrants to spy on Trump's campaign, and the information gathered during that investigation was relayed to the administration for political purposes

The funny thing is the more they try to portray Trump as Nixon the more it becomes clear that Nixon's actions absolutely pale in comparison to what Obama was doing to influence the elections - a foreign government interfering in U.S. elections is bad, but unexpected, but a U.S. government interfering in the same elections is just outright treasonous and seditious.

Somewhere in Langley some CIA analyst is no doubt shaking his head and thinking "Seriously, FBI? WTF? This is what / how you are charging people with now? You are just making the whole intelligence community look bad. Way worse, outright espionage actions on both sides routinely are met with an expulsion from the country and a sternly-worded warning not to do it again, and now making some comments on U.S. elections gets met with criminal charges against people who are outside the country and will never, in a million years, be extradited."

The funny thing is that, by all accounts, the fairly limited actions of the Russian trolls on social media appear to have been, and there is no better way to put it, intended to "stir shit up". They would take both sides of hot-topic issues already being discussed, throw some gasoline into the fire and just stand back and watch America fall to pieces. Their whole objective appears to have been to sow discord in the country and put into question the legitimacy of U.S. democracy, And seeing how intense TDS is, how after over a year a lot of idiots still appear to think the same person they accuse of being a complete moron with two functioning brain cells is also somehow a criminal mastermind / Manchurian candidate, and how giddy a large portion of the media and the left get at attempts at (literal) political assassination against elected politicians (e.g., Scalise, Rand Paul), I would say that with the unwitting participation of a sizable segment of the U.S. population the Russians achieved maximum bang for their buck.

Pyrex wrote:

No response from Moscow yet. Presumably because they are rolling on the floor laughing so hard they haven't yet been able to pick themselves back up.

After over a year and no doubt tens of millions of dollars spent the best they can come up with is a few poor sods charged with "lying to the FBI" (the rich person's version of "resisting arrest", i.e., a policeman's best friend) and some charges against people that will never see a day in court for... making posts on social media regarding U.S. elections despite not being U.S. citizens! They better start building bigger jails if that is now a crime, as half this forum, for starters, is going straight to jail...

In the meantime, in the same time frame, as the Democrats have been digging through the mud to keep this whole charade alive all the way up until the mid-terms to try to score some political points, here is just a small summary of the confirmed facts we have been able to find out as the mound of shit they have been throwing up in the air has been collapsing around them:
- The investigation exonerating Hillary and trying to find anything whatsoever against Trump was/is being conducted by partisan hacks
- One of those partisan hacks who supposedly was investigating Clinton for breaches of information security protocol was so well-versed in information security himself he was openly discussing the case through text messages with the side-chick he was banging (also, discussing how the then-POTUS wanted to know everything they were doing)
- Comey started drafting the speech exonerating Clinton for her crimes months before she had been interviewed and the investigation had been concluded
- The information that Comey gave Congress a week or so before the election and for which he gets such a bad rap (that e-mails were found in Anthony Weiner's computer) was apparently circulating within the top echelons of the FBI (unclear yet if all the way up to Comey himself, but certainly to his deputy) a month before his letter to Congress
- The DNC themselves confirmed Hillary co-opted the party funding and machinery (and likely committed money laundering in the process...) even before she got officially nominated.
- It was confirmed that Hillary's campaign paid for a former British spy to manufacture a hit piece on Trump
- That same hit piece / vicious smear was then used by the FBI (with the likely blessing and encouragement of the former administration) to obtain warrants to spy on Trump's campaign, and the information gathered during that investigation was relayed to the administration for political purposes

The funny thing is the more they try to portray Trump as Nixon the more it becomes clear that Nixon's actions absolutely pale in comparison to what Obama was doing to influence the elections - a foreign government interfering in U.S. elections is bad, but unexpected, but a U.S. government interfering in the same elections is just outright treasonous and seditious.

Somewhere in Langley some CIA analyst is no doubt shaking his head and thinking "Seriously, FBI? WTF? This is what / how you are charging people with now? You are just making the whole intelligence community look bad. Way worse, outright espionage actions on both sides routinely are met with an expulsion from the country and a sternly-worded warning not to do it again, and now making some comments on U.S. elections gets met with criminal charges against people who are outside the country and will never, in a million years, be extradited."

The funny thing is that, by all accounts, the fairly limited actions of the Russian trolls on social media appear to have been, and there is no better way to put it, intended to "stir shit up". They would take both sides of hot-topic issues already being discussed, throw some gasoline into the fire and just stand back and watch America fall to pieces. Their whole objective appears to have been to sow discord in the country and put into question the legitimacy of U.S. democracy, And seeing how intense TDS is, how after over a year a lot of idiots still appear to think the same person they accuse of being a complete moron with two functioning brain cells is also somehow a criminal mastermind / Manchurian candidate, and how giddy a large portion of the media and the left get at attempts at (literal) political assassination against elected politicians (e.g., Scalise, Rand Paul), I would say that with the unwitting participation of a sizable segment of the U.S. population the Russians achieved maximum bang for their buck.

Again, the absolute certainty with which people will selectively agglomerate certain facts as being conclusive is just mind-boggling.

"Since Mueller didn't indict Trump from Day 1, it's obvious that it's all made up."

I guess the same could be said for Hillary, but, oh wait, there was a grand conspiracy to protect her and get her elected, the proof being Comey and, er, text messages.

Trump's former campaign manager being indicted for fraud? The NSA director being fired for being a blackmail risk, but only after being let to stay on for two weeks? Trump Tower meeting because Junior says he "loves" the idea of dirt on Hillary (so much so, in fact that he never told Daddy)? Russian operatives on U.S. soil so as to stir the pot, as you say, in the same way they did in the Ukraine, where the aforementioned campaign manager was a political gun-for-hire? Rewriting of Republican Party platform to be favorable to Russia? Trump asking Russia publicly to find 30k e-mails on his behalf? Trump pushing for end to Russian sanctions when there is obvious financial benefit to him and, more than likely, a long list of friends? Trump refusing to enact further Russian sanctions that he enacted as law? Erik Prince having covert meeting with Russian bankers in Seychelles? Shady Russian investors paying way above market for Trump properties? (There's more, I'm sure.)

Nah, there's nothing. Just lying to the FBI. Russians definitely throwing their heads back in laughter!

I'll say this--I have no idea how this will end up. It is my informed OPINION, however, that a conspiracy the likes of which Sean Hannity concocts on a daily basis will be uncovered and more individuals connected to the Trump campaign and administration will be indicted for way worse than lying. And I'm sure Bozo--although he can use the Bozo defense--was aware of at least some of it. Any other president would be impeached for such obstruction, but my prediction is he will not. Why? Because plenty of people think like you, pyrex. Able to connect some dots and regurgitate what you've heard, but not absolutely oblivious to others.

So, that is my prediction. I will take what you wrote above as your prediction. But I think you need to sit this investigation out a little while longer before being so cocky. That's how they work, buddy.

[quote="Okie"

Source please

Okie[/quote]

I keep them under lock until sources for Obama being Kenyan and so on and so forth are made public.

Best regards
Thomas

Jouhou wrote:

Also, just to plant the idea... You know what would completely muck up Russia's strategy? If the US and Europe were able to make peace with Iran. They've been desperately trying to foil the success of the nuke deal. That appears to be something that scares them.

Oh sure we can all embrace the Koran and call for Israels destruction and make peace!