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bagoldex
Posts: 785
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:33 pm

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:36 pm

FreequentFlier wrote:
I'm not a gun owner.


I bet you'd like to be though. Criminal background? History of mental illness? Too poor to buy one?
 
FreequentFlier
Posts: 832
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:30 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:49 pm

jetero wrote:
bagoldex wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:

I'm not a gun owner.

But I would imagine gun owners would feel as welcoming to people trying to strip away their rights as anyone else would. They're not going to just sit there and take it.

Would you tell a gay person to just docilely accept it if a GOP politician tried to eliminate gay marriage at this point?


Oh so now you people are equating the rights of lgbtq people and same sex marriage with the right and need of some people to own guns? Last time I checked, no one's born with such an irrational fear of the world that they need a gun to function in society.


Well baglodex beat me to it, but seriously, FF.

Let me recap this for you.

What is being tossed about is some form of gun control legislation.

The only real "proposals" I've heard being discussed since Parkland are:

-Minimum age to buy guns

-Universal background checks

-Force states to report to federal background check database

-Some sort of restrictions on people with mental health issues buying guns

-Assault weapons ban

-Bump stocks ban

-Arming teachers

-Adding security to schools

Congress (or states) can pass laws that regulate gun ownership. (Whether or not they will do so is another question.)

The constitutionality of these laws can be tested by the Supreme Court.

The Supreme Court has already said--Scalia included!--that the Second Amendment does not preclude the regulation of gun ownership. Details to be determined one day. (Of course not if the NRA has its way.)

We have people on here (yourself included) literally saying that the above process is not possible. Forget about efficacy--you are literally saying it's not possible.

And on top of that you're saying it doesn't matter anyway as there would be a second civil war.

I hope that the above process does happen and the gun nutters do go out and revolt.

Then I hope their a*ses get thrown in jail since they think they're above the law because they own a gun and can thereby threaten people.

Beyond being insulting, your equivalency of an "unlimited right to own a gun," which has essentially already been shot down by the Supreme Court, with gay marriage, which has also been settled by the Supreme Court and thereby legislation cannot be enacted to the contrary, says that you really don't have a flipping clue what you're talking about. Why not say to an African-American person, "How would you feel if a Congressman tried to legalize segregation again?" or to a woman, "How would you feel if a Congressman tried to take away your right to vote?"

You guys are CUCKOO.


I've never said there couldn't be reasonable restriction like universal background checks or a ban on bump stocks.

But banning guns is not something that 2nd Amendment supporters will ever tolerate. There will be massive civil disibedience on a scale you've never seen before.

Civil rights are civil rights. They exist regardless of whether you like some more than others.

The right to carry and to self defense is a civil right and doesn't require your permission.
 
FreequentFlier
Posts: 832
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:30 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:00 pm

jetero wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:
Even if a law was ever on the books, guns can now be 3D printed and done so untraceably.


Anarchist much? Even if there's a law on the books against kidnapping and false imprisonment, parents can still lock their kids in the basement for a decade and put them in chains until one of them escapes. So better take that kidnapping law off the books!

Do you have any clue what you're saying?

FreequentFlier wrote:
So again, adjust your reality accordingly.


No thank you. Your argument is absolutely flawed and beyond fallacious.


I'm no more an anarchist than anyone smoking marijuana today (even though it's officially a federal crime) or those who blocked airports following the ban on travel by foreign nationals from certain countries.

Like I said I'm not a gun owner. But if they were banned, I'd 3D print some myself. And good luck stopping it because it would be untraceable.

Adjust your reality accordingly.
 
FreequentFlier
Posts: 832
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:30 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:02 pm

jetero wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:
Both are civil rights, so yes, I absolutely am equating them.


WRONG AGAIN, FF.

Suggest you look up "civil right."


The right to carry and to self defense is a civil right, regardless of whether you like it or not. Honestly makes no difference to me or to the tens of millions of law abiding gun owners.
 
User avatar
SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 995
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:53 pm

FreequentFlier wrote:
Let's say it actually passed somehow and armed agents went door to door confiscating firearms.
And you just cannot help yourself.....
Firstly, why would agents need to be armed in order to confiscate firearms? Some countries have a long history of unarmed policemen accepting weapons from civilians (good and bad) who recognize when the game is up. Having a SWAT team on standby, and letting everybody know it should be enough. Wearing a gun, or worse still, waving it around, is only going to escalate the situation.
And yet somehow I fear I'm totalling wasting my breath.

Secondly - assuming you are talking about the US; do you actually have any agents who are not armed? I was under the impression that a gun came automatically with the badge. So why the need to state the obvious? Were these agents also wearing shoes? Does that need specifying?

Gun rights supporters can now 3D print metallic AR-15 style firearms in their basement. Your dreams of disarming people you don't like are already doomed to failure.
OMG, I'm not even sure that comment is worth a response.
The world discovered a long time ago that crime wasn't prevented by God, the Bible, or fantastic legal penalties such as capital punishment for pickpockets. What brought law and order to society was a very real threat of being caught. (Think 1822 and Sir Robert Peel).
Likewise , gun legislation isn't all about preventing people from obtaining a weapon, but ensuring that even if they somehow get hold of a gun, they cannot carry it around in public (open carry), boast about it to everyone at the local bar, or discharge it where it will be heard and questioned by a neighbor.
At the moment, if you hear a gunshot almost anywhere in the US, people just ignore it because .... of the Second Amendment. :banghead:
If you change that dynamic, gun ownership will be driven underground and become far less attractive.

So, go ahead a use a 3D printer, or make something up in your backyard workshop. But don't ever get caught in possession, because that will result in jail time.

......nothing will be accomplished, since millions will still just be gunsmithing and 3D printing in their own homes. And a 2nd civil war might be sparked in the interim.
Here's the thing; whilst you have a dumb (¹) President in your pocket, and whilst the fallacy of the Second Amendment is still believed by the gullible masses, you can rely on support from even from neutrals.
e.g.
Trump recently tweeted; "Wayne, Chris and the folks who work so hard at the @NRA are Great People and Great American Patriots. They love our Country and will do the right thing. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!"

Makes you feel good to be praised so highly by POTUS. "Patriots" no less. :thumbsup:

But if the law is clarified, and gun ownership in many cases becomes illegal, when folks like you start planning a civil war, all of sudden you ain't "patriots" any more. In fact, you will be guilty of Seditious Conspiracy (18 U.S.C. § 2384) and instead of boldly standing up for your rights and becoming heroes, you will be gunned down as traitors, because let's be honest - an untrained rabble militia is not going to be much of a match for the US Army. This isn't 1775 and you won't be fighting British Redcoats.

Which makes any talk of civil war completely superfluous.
Peaceful civil disobedience maybe. Making your voices heard, and your presence felt at the ballot box, definitely.
But don't take up arms against the US Gov't because it will only end badly for you.
And yet somehow yet again I fear I'm totalling wasting my breath.

Adjust your reality accordingly.
Absolutely. Right back at you !

(¹) dumb; lacking the power of speech, silent, mute.
I promised myself I'd leave before the party turned ugly. I would quit at 1000 !
Here I am stuck at 994; each time I'm tempted to post, I find myself wondering who will even read it / what is the point?
Or maybe I've just got nothing left to say.
 
seb146
Posts: 17851
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:22 am

FreequentFlier wrote:
seb146 wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:

Right, nobody needs permission to exercise rights.


Really? Because Blacks, women and LGBTQI community would disagree. Why does your "right" to carry an optional piece of equipment outweigh my right to live how I want to live?

A WELL REGULATED MILITIA is how the Amendment starts. It does NOT start with bear arms. The Founding Fathers wrote it that way for a reason. They put WELL REGULATED MILITIA first.


Because nobody needs your permission to exercise their rights. If that makes you upset, good.


Why, then, do legal citizens of the United State have to sue for rights extended to other members of society?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obergefell_v._Hodges
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act_of_1965
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-hist ... ing-rights

I needed permission from the Supreme Court if I wanted to marry the man I have been partnered with for the past 11 years. Blacks and women needed permission from the Supreme Court to vote. You don't care, of course, because you have never had to sue for those rights. You have enjoyed those rights all along.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
seb146
Posts: 17851
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:23 am

FreequentFlier wrote:
jetero wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:
Both are civil rights, so yes, I absolutely am equating them.


WRONG AGAIN, FF.

Suggest you look up "civil right."


The right to carry and to self defense is a civil right, regardless of whether you like it or not. Honestly makes no difference to me or to the tens of millions of law abiding gun owners.


Please share with us where that is in the Constitution.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
FreequentFlier
Posts: 832
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:30 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:22 am

seb146 wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Really? Because Blacks, women and LGBTQI community would disagree. Why does your "right" to carry an optional piece of equipment outweigh my right to live how I want to live?

A WELL REGULATED MILITIA is how the Amendment starts. It does NOT start with bear arms. The Founding Fathers wrote it that way for a reason. They put WELL REGULATED MILITIA first.


Because nobody needs your permission to exercise their rights. If that makes you upset, good.


Why, then, do legal citizens of the United State have to sue for rights extended to other members of society?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obergefell_v._Hodges
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act_of_1965
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-hist ... ing-rights

I needed permission from the Supreme Court if I wanted to marry the man I have been partnered with for the past 11 years. Blacks and women needed permission from the Supreme Court to vote. You don't care, of course, because you have never had to sue for those rights. You have enjoyed those rights all along.


Interesting that as you gain new rights you are so quick to deny rights to others.

Absolutely despicable seb.
 
jetero
Posts: 3758
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:02 am

FreequentFlier wrote:
Adjust your reality accordingly.


Oh Dorothy, you can click your heels and say it 3 times but it doesn't make it any more true!

Image

Blather blather blather "CIVIL RIGHTS!!!"

Blah blah blah "3D PRINTER!!!!"

Blech blech blech "YOU CAN'T MAKE ME DO THAT MOMMY!!!!"

Rabble rabble rabble "ADJUST YOUR REALITY ACCORDINGLY" (you seem to be really proud of that one, FF)

I have posited what is an entirely constitutional process for gun control laws to be enacted and validated by the Supreme Court. I'm not saying it's going to be easy or will even happy, but if it happens, it will happen as I described.

You need to look up:

-Civil right (Dorothy, if you want to claim that the right to carrying a gun is a "constitutional right," more power to you, but it ain't a civil right)

-Civil disobedience (Dorothy, threatening to shoot people because you think they want to "take your guns" is not "civil disobedience")

Finally look up "sedition" because that's what your advocating. Essentially, you're saying the Constitution matters only as interpreted by gun owners, and if Congress and the Supreme Court disagree, you're just going to shoot us all and throw the country into civil war. If you think you have unlimited "rights" to own firearms, well that supersedes the rule of law and you're free to open fire!

I don't have much of a dog in this hunt, but Dorothy you've made a pretty strong case why we need to take guns out of the hands of whackadoodles.
 
FreequentFlier
Posts: 832
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:30 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:07 am

jetero wrote:
Let me recap this for you.

What is being tossed about is some form of gun control legislation.

The only real "proposals" I've heard being discussed since Parkland are:

-Minimum age to buy guns

-Universal background checks

-Force states to report to federal background check database

-Some sort of restrictions on people with mental health issues buying guns

-Assault weapons ban

-Bump stocks ban

-Arming teachers

-Adding security to schools





SheikhDjiboutiOMG wrote:
The world discovered a long time ago that crime wasn't prevented by God, the Bible, or fantastic legal penalties such as capital punishment for pickpockets. What brought law and order to society was a very real threat of being caught. (Think 1822 and Sir Robert Peel).
Likewise , gun legislation isn't all about preventing people from obtaining a weapon, but ensuring that even if they somehow get hold of a gun, they cannot carry it around in public (open carry), boast about it to everyone at the local bar, or discharge it where it will be heard and questioned by a neighbor.
At the moment, if you hear a gunshot almost anywhere in the US, people just ignore it because .... the Second Amendment. :banghead:
If you change that dynamic, gun ownership will be driven underground.

...

But if the law is clarified, and gun ownership in many cases becomes illegal, when folks like you start planning a civil war, all of sudden you ain't "patriots" any more. In fact, you will be guilty of Seditious Conspiracy (18 U.S.C. § 2384) and instead of boldly standing up for your rights and becoming heroes, you will be gunned down as traitors.


Guys, you may want to work on your message coordination. You are not doing a very good job of lying.
 
jetero
Posts: 3758
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:17 am

FreequentFlier wrote:
jetero wrote:
Let me recap this for you.

What is being tossed about is some form of gun control legislation.

The only real "proposals" I've heard being discussed since Parkland are:

-Minimum age to buy guns

-Universal background checks

-Force states to report to federal background check database

-Some sort of restrictions on people with mental health issues buying guns

-Assault weapons ban

-Bump stocks ban

-Arming teachers

-Adding security to schools





SheikhDjiboutiOMG wrote:
The world discovered a long time ago that crime wasn't prevented by God, the Bible, or fantastic legal penalties such as capital punishment for pickpockets. What brought law and order to society was a very real threat of being caught. (Think 1822 and Sir Robert Peel).
Likewise , gun legislation isn't all about preventing people from obtaining a weapon, but ensuring that even if they somehow get hold of a gun, they cannot carry it around in public (open carry), boast about it to everyone at the local bar, or discharge it where it will be heard and questioned by a neighbor.
At the moment, if you hear a gunshot almost anywhere in the US, people just ignore it because .... the Second Amendment. :banghead:
If you change that dynamic, gun ownership will be driven underground.


Guys, you may want to work on your message coordination. You are not doing a very good job of lying.


Have a nice glass of wine—let Toto sit in your lap, and maybe that’ll calm you down, Dorothy. Plotting treason can be pretty tiring after all. Don’t worry you’ve got time ... and 3D printers are only going to get better!!!! Goodie!!!!

Repeat after me

Adjust your reality accordingly.

Adjust your reality accordingly.

Adjust your reality accordingly ...
 
FreequentFlier
Posts: 832
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:30 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:28 am

jetero wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:
jetero wrote:






Guys, you may want to work on your message coordination. You are not doing a very good job of lying.


Have a nice glass of wine—let Toto sit in your lap, and maybe that’ll calm you down, Dorothy. Plotting treason can be pretty tiring after all. Don’t worry you’ve got time ... and 3D printers are only going to get better!!!! Goodie!!!!

Repeat after me

Adjust your reality accordingly.

Adjust your reality accordingly.

Adjust your reality accordingly ...


Look jet, I get it. You were trying to convince everyone that your side is the reasonable one. And maybe you personally are reasonable. The problem is like on so many other issues, many of your fellow travelers have gone so batsh*t crazy, talking about their opponents as if they're terrorists and murderers because they believe in the 2nd Amendment. (See my last post for that reality slapping you in the face.)

Polls consistently show that the public doesn't like Donald Trump. They have been showing that for YEARS now. And yet the left just lost an election to him because the public rightly views the left as just ideological fanatics out to crush any form of opposition to them. It's why the public doesn't trust you and why the Democrats have less power now that they have had since the 1920s.

I have many friends on the left and most people (including them) are sick and tired of the left's constant public shaming over every slight - real or imagined - and subsequent Orwellian 2 minutes of hate".
Last edited by FreequentFlier on Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
User avatar
SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 995
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:28 am

FreequentFlier wrote:
jetero wrote:
What is being tossed about is some form of gun control legislation.

SheikhDjiboutiOMG wrote:
The world discovered a long time ago that crime wasn't prevented by God, the Bible, or fantastic legal penalties What brought law and order to society was a very real threat of being caught. Likewise , gun legislation isn't all about preventing people from obtaining a weapon, but ensuring that even if they somehow get hold of a gun, they cannot carry it around in public (open carry), boast about it to everyone at the local bar, or discharge it where it will be heard and questioned by a neighbor.

But if the law is clarified, and gun ownership in many cases becomes illegal, when folks like you start planning a civil war, all of sudden you ain't "patriots" any more. In fact, you will be guilty of Seditious Conspiracy (18 U.S.C. § 2384) and instead of boldly standing up for your rights and becoming heroes, you will be gunned down as traitors.

Guys, you may want to work on your message coordination. You are not doing a very good job of lying.

I'm really sorry about this, but I don't have any idea what your point is. Or where the lies are.
If there is a mistake in my argument, please explain it.

If there is a mistake in Jetero's post, I could care less. Discuss it with him (or her).

Or is it just beginning to dawn upon you that your precious status as "patriots" is just a smokescreen waiting for the winds of change to blow it away.
I promised myself I'd leave before the party turned ugly. I would quit at 1000 !
Here I am stuck at 994; each time I'm tempted to post, I find myself wondering who will even read it / what is the point?
Or maybe I've just got nothing left to say.
 
jetero
Posts: 3758
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:36 am

FreequentFlier wrote:
jetero wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:

Guys, you may want to work on your message coordination. You are not doing a very good job of lying.


Have a nice glass of wine—let Toto sit in your lap, and maybe that’ll calm you down, Dorothy. Plotting treason can be pretty tiring after all. Don’t worry you’ve got time ... and 3D printers are only going to get better!!!! Goodie!!!!

Repeat after me

Adjust your reality accordingly.

Adjust your reality accordingly.

Adjust your reality accordingly ...


Look jet, I get it. You were trying to convince everyone that your side is the reasonable one. And maybe you personally are reasonable. The problem is like on so many other issues, many of your fellow travelers have gone so batsh*t crazy, talking about their opponents as if they're terrorists and murderers because they believe in the 2nd Amendment. (See my last post for that reality slapping you in the face.)

Polls consistently show that the public doesn't like Donald Trump. They have been showing that for YEARS now. And yet the left just lost an election to him because the public rightly views the left as just ideological fanatics out to crush any form of opposition to them. It's why the public doesn't trust you and why the Democrats have less power now that they have had since the 1920s.


Whatevs Dorothy

Appreciate your paternalistic sympathy for the plight of we poor liberals

We’ll get by
 
FreequentFlier
Posts: 832
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:30 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:40 am

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:
jetero wrote:
What is being tossed about is some form of gun control legislation.

SheikhDjiboutiOMG wrote:
The world discovered a long time ago that crime wasn't prevented by God, the Bible, or fantastic legal penalties What brought law and order to society was a very real threat of being caught. Likewise , gun legislation isn't all about preventing people from obtaining a weapon, but ensuring that even if they somehow get hold of a gun, they cannot carry it around in public (open carry), boast about it to everyone at the local bar, or discharge it where it will be heard and questioned by a neighbor.

But if the law is clarified, and gun ownership in many cases becomes illegal, when folks like you start planning a civil war, all of sudden you ain't "patriots" any more. In fact, you will be guilty of Seditious Conspiracy (18 U.S.C. § 2384) and instead of boldly standing up for your rights and becoming heroes, you will be gunned down as traitors.

Guys, you may want to work on your message coordination. You are not doing a very good job of lying.

I'm really sorry about this, but I don't have any idea what your point is. Or where the lies are.
If there is a mistake in my argument, please explain it.

If there is a mistake in Jetero's post, I could care less. Discuss it with him (or her).

Or is it just beginning to dawn upon you that your precious status as "patriots" is just a smokescreen waiting for the winds of change to blow it away.


The point is pretty clear - for every person on the left saying they're just asking for "reasonable" restrictions, there are an equivalent number of others (like you) fantasizing about driving gun owners "underground", or likening them to terrorists or traitors.

Which would explain why gun rights have actually expanded in recent years.

When you guys are ready to put away your eliminationist fantasies and have an adult conversation, let us know. We can talk about some smart fixes then.
 
User avatar
SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 995
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:46 am

jetero wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:
Adjust your reality accordingly.
Oh Dorothy, you can click your heels and say it 3 times but it doesn't make it any more true!

Finally look up "sedition" because that's what your advocating. Essentially, you're saying the Constitution matters only as interpreted by gun owners, and if Congress and the Supreme Court disagree, you're just going to shoot us all and throw the country into civil war. If you think you have unlimited "rights" to own firearms, well that supersedes the rule of law and you're free to open fire!

:checkmark:

Oh dear, it seems as if we have both just burst his bubble.
Obviously we must be communists, and this is a treacherous conspiracy designed to overthrow the USA.
Quick everybody, grab yer guns and join the militia, because we don't have enough aircraft, ships or tanks to defend our borders. Only the NRA can save us!
I promised myself I'd leave before the party turned ugly. I would quit at 1000 !
Here I am stuck at 994; each time I'm tempted to post, I find myself wondering who will even read it / what is the point?
Or maybe I've just got nothing left to say.
 
jetero
Posts: 3758
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:48 am

FreequentFlier wrote:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:

Guys, you may want to work on your message coordination. You are not doing a very good job of lying.

I'm really sorry about this, but I don't have any idea what your point is. Or where the lies are.
If there is a mistake in my argument, please explain it.

If there is a mistake in Jetero's post, I could care less. Discuss it with him (or her).

Or is it just beginning to dawn upon you that your precious status as "patriots" is just a smokescreen waiting for the winds of change to blow it away.


The point is pretty clear - for every person on the left saying they're just asking for "reasonable" restrictions, there are an equivalent number of others (like you) fantasizing about driving gun owners "underground", or likening them to terrorists or traitors.

Which would explain why gun rights have actually expanded in recent years.

When you guys are ready to put away your eliminationist fantasies and have an adult conversation, let us know. We can talk about some smart fixes then.


Oh Dorothy you’re a hoot and a holler.

I invite you to reread our “dialogue” (essentially my trying to engage with you and you having a dialogue with the preconceived notions in your head) and tell me who is incapable of having an “adult conversation.”

An “adult conversation” is impossible when someone (this is where you come in, Dot) states “my opinion is reality and even if what you say is true we will shoot you, so adjust your realities accordingly.”

Youse a certifiable nutter, Dorothy. Say hi to the Tin Man for me.
 
jetero
Posts: 3758
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:58 am

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
jetero wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:
Adjust your reality accordingly.
Oh Dorothy, you can click your heels and say it 3 times but it doesn't make it any more true!

Finally look up "sedition" because that's what your advocating. Essentially, you're saying the Constitution matters only as interpreted by gun owners, and if Congress and the Supreme Court disagree, you're just going to shoot us all and throw the country into civil war. If you think you have unlimited "rights" to own firearms, well that supersedes the rule of law and you're free to open fire!

:checkmark:

Oh dear, it seems as if we have both just burst his bubble.
Obviously we must be communists, and this is a treacherous conspiracy designed to overthrow the USA.
Quick everybody, grab yer guns and join the militia, because we don't have enough aircraft, ships or tanks to defend our borders. Only the NRA can save us!


Remind me again when the next meeting of the Pinko Commie Libtard Society is?! Is it my turn to host? I promise anything but an “adult conversation,” because, you know, I’m incapable of such things. I guess I just didn’t get the “threaten to kill people who disagree with me/adult conversation” gene.
 
FreequentFlier
Posts: 832
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:30 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:00 am

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
jetero wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:
Adjust your reality accordingly.
Oh Dorothy, you can click your heels and say it 3 times but it doesn't make it any more true!

Finally look up "sedition" because that's what your advocating. Essentially, you're saying the Constitution matters only as interpreted by gun owners, and if Congress and the Supreme Court disagree, you're just going to shoot us all and throw the country into civil war. If you think you have unlimited "rights" to own firearms, well that supersedes the rule of law and you're free to open fire!

:checkmark:

Oh dear, it seems as if we have both just burst his bubble.
Obviously we must be communists, and this is a treacherous conspiracy designed to overthrow the USA.
Quick everybody, grab yer guns and join the militia, because we don't have enough aircraft, ships or tanks to defend our borders. Only the NRA can save us!


A complete ban on all firearms is an extremely unpopular position. If you want to maintain your place in the political wilderness, by all means continue to maintain your position and keep snarking away.

Hope you're enjoying your tax cut.
 
FreequentFlier
Posts: 832
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:30 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:02 am

jetero wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
I'm really sorry about this, but I don't have any idea what your point is. Or where the lies are.
If there is a mistake in my argument, please explain it.

If there is a mistake in Jetero's post, I could care less. Discuss it with him (or her).

Or is it just beginning to dawn upon you that your precious status as "patriots" is just a smokescreen waiting for the winds of change to blow it away.


The point is pretty clear - for every person on the left saying they're just asking for "reasonable" restrictions, there are an equivalent number of others (like you) fantasizing about driving gun owners "underground", or likening them to terrorists or traitors.

Which would explain why gun rights have actually expanded in recent years.

When you guys are ready to put away your eliminationist fantasies and have an adult conversation, let us know. We can talk about some smart fixes then.


Oh Dorothy you’re a hoot and a holler.

I invite you to reread our “dialogue” (essentially my trying to engage with you and you having a dialogue with the preconceived notions in your head) and tell me who is incapable of having an “adult conversation.”

An “adult conversation” is impossible when someone (this is where you come in, Dot) states “my opinion is reality and even if what you say is true we will shoot you, so adjust your realities accordingly.”

Youse a certifiable nutter, Dorothy. Say hi to the Tin Man for me.


I'm not a shrink, but I am hopeful this is providing at least some form of outlet capacity for you.
 
jetero
Posts: 3758
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:09 am

FreequentFlier wrote:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
jetero wrote:
Oh Dorothy, you can click your heels and say it 3 times but it doesn't make it any more true!

Finally look up "sedition" because that's what your advocating. Essentially, you're saying the Constitution matters only as interpreted by gun owners, and if Congress and the Supreme Court disagree, you're just going to shoot us all and throw the country into civil war. If you think you have unlimited "rights" to own firearms, well that supersedes the rule of law and you're free to open fire!

:checkmark:

Oh dear, it seems as if we have both just burst his bubble.
Obviously we must be communists, and this is a treacherous conspiracy designed to overthrow the USA.
Quick everybody, grab yer guns and join the militia, because we don't have enough aircraft, ships or tanks to defend our borders. Only the NRA can save us!


A complete ban on all firearms is an extremely unpopular position. If you want to maintain your place in the political wilderness, by all means continue to maintain your position and keep snarking away.

Hope you're enjoying your tax cut.



Dorothy you’re still talking to yourself.

Scroll up, Dot.

When you can find where I argued for “a complete ban on all firearms,” let me know.

Otherwise I hope those voices you keep on talking to in your head don’t keep you up too late.
 
jetero
Posts: 3758
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:10 am

FreequentFlier wrote:
jetero wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:

The point is pretty clear - for every person on the left saying they're just asking for "reasonable" restrictions, there are an equivalent number of others (like you) fantasizing about driving gun owners "underground", or likening them to terrorists or traitors.

Which would explain why gun rights have actually expanded in recent years.

When you guys are ready to put away your eliminationist fantasies and have an adult conversation, let us know. We can talk about some smart fixes then.


Oh Dorothy you’re a hoot and a holler.

I invite you to reread our “dialogue” (essentially my trying to engage with you and you having a dialogue with the preconceived notions in your head) and tell me who is incapable of having an “adult conversation.”

An “adult conversation” is impossible when someone (this is where you come in, Dot) states “my opinion is reality and even if what you say is true we will shoot you, so adjust your realities accordingly.”

Youse a certifiable nutter, Dorothy. Say hi to the Tin Man for me.


I'm not a shrink, but I am hopeful this is providing at least some form of outlet capacity for you.


Ooooo Dot, so forward! How gracious of you to sign up to be my “outlet!” Can we find a way to incorporate “Adjust your reality accordingly” into the plugging?
 
User avatar
SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 995
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:20 am

FreequentFlier wrote:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:
Guys, you may want to work on your message coordination. You are not doing a very good job of lying.

I'm really sorry about this, but I don't have any idea what your point is. Or where the lies are.

The point is pretty clear - for every person on the left saying they're just asking for "reasonable" restrictions, there are an equivalent number of others (like you) fantasizing about driving gun owners "underground", or likening them to terrorists or traitors.
Tell me, is failing to place comments into context an acquired skill ? And do you understand the meaning of "volte-face"
That's French for arguing for co-ordination between myself and another poster, and then making the point that different people have different ideas as to how guns should be restricted.

I guess I must have missed the paragraph where you explained what qualified as "lying".
Unless of course you skipped over that rather inconvenient truth.

And you're wrong on another count; I'm not fantasizing about driving gun owners underground; just the ones that will become illegal after a change in legislation. Or rather, a clarification of the existing legislation, because nothing actually needs to change; the second amendment can stand. You can keep as many muskets and flintlocks as you like. If you want something more modern, then you need a modern interpretation of the Second Amendment, properly ratified by all the people of the United States, not just the gun lobby.

Finally the definition of terrorists & traitors are those threatening civil war and armed disobedience if you don't get to keep all your toys.
That's not my fantasy; that is simply the law of the United States.

FreequentFlier wrote:
When you guys are ready to put away your eliminationist fantasies and have an adult conversation, let us know. We can talk about some smart fixes then.
Are you the same person who made it perfectly clear that giving up your semi was not an option. Never. Ever?
I promised myself I'd leave before the party turned ugly. I would quit at 1000 !
Here I am stuck at 994; each time I'm tempted to post, I find myself wondering who will even read it / what is the point?
Or maybe I've just got nothing left to say.
 
FreequentFlier
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:22 am

jetero wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
:checkmark:

Oh dear, it seems as if we have both just burst his bubble.
Obviously we must be communists, and this is a treacherous conspiracy designed to overthrow the USA.
Quick everybody, grab yer guns and join the militia, because we don't have enough aircraft, ships or tanks to defend our borders. Only the NRA can save us!


A complete ban on all firearms is an extremely unpopular position. If you want to maintain your place in the political wilderness, by all means continue to maintain your position and keep snarking away.

Hope you're enjoying your tax cut.



Dorothy you’re still talking to yourself.

Scroll up, Dot.

When you can find where I argued for “a complete ban on all firearms,” let me know.

Otherwise I hope those voices you keep on talking to in your head don’t keep you up too late.


That would explain why I quoted and responded to Sheikh, rather than you, when I made that statement.
 
jetero
Posts: 3758
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:28 am

FreequentFlier wrote:
jetero wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:

A complete ban on all firearms is an extremely unpopular position. If you want to maintain your place in the political wilderness, by all means continue to maintain your position and keep snarking away.

Hope you're enjoying your tax cut.



Dorothy you’re still talking to yourself.

Scroll up, Dot.

When you can find where I argued for “a complete ban on all firearms,” let me know.

Otherwise I hope those voices you keep on talking to in your head don’t keep you up too late.


That would explain why I quoted and responded to Sheikh, rather than you, when I made that statement.


Oooopsies, I must admit I can get overly excited during foreplay. You know, before the plugging.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:33 am

FreequentFlier wrote:
A complete ban on all firearms is an extremely unpopular position. If you want to maintain your place in the political wilderness, by all means continue to maintain your position and keep snarking away.

Hope you're enjoying your tax cut.

Are you sure that post was for me, because I'm not sure I ever advocated a complete ban on ALL firearms.

However I do recall pulling somebody up for repeatedly using the Straw Man argument technique. Was that you? Or are you going to claim this is your first offense? :lol:

Having said all that, I guess I could live with your idea of suggesting a complete ban, just as an antidote to the rabid ideas emanating from the NRA and their flunkies. They don't seem to have a problem maintaining an unpopular position, as long as the $$$ keep rolling in.
I promised myself I'd leave before the party turned ugly. I would quit at 1000 !
Here I am stuck at 994; each time I'm tempted to post, I find myself wondering who will even read it / what is the point?
Or maybe I've just got nothing left to say.
 
stratosphere
Posts: 1525
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:45 pm

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:29 am

jetero wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
:checkmark:

Oh dear, it seems as if we have both just burst his bubble.
Obviously we must be communists, and this is a treacherous conspiracy designed to overthrow the USA.
Quick everybody, grab yer guns and join the militia, because we don't have enough aircraft, ships or tanks to defend our borders. Only the NRA can save us!


A complete ban on all firearms is an extremely unpopular position. If you want to maintain your place in the political wilderness, by all means continue to maintain your position and keep snarking away.

Hope you're enjoying your tax cut.



Dorothy you’re still talking to yourself.

Scroll up, Dot.
\



When you can find where I argued for “a complete ban on all firearms,” let me know.

Otherwise I hope those voices you keep on talking to in your head don’t keep you up too late.


You know i find it interesting that I didn't see any of you rabid gun hating liberals say jack s**t when the liberal whack job shot a bunch of GOP congressman at a baseball game guess that's ok though.
 
jetero
Posts: 3758
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:46 am

stratosphere wrote:
jetero wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:

A complete ban on all firearms is an extremely unpopular position. If you want to maintain your place in the political wilderness, by all means continue to maintain your position and keep snarking away.

Hope you're enjoying your tax cut.



Dorothy you’re still talking to yourself.

Scroll up, Dot.
\



When you can find where I argued for “a complete ban on all firearms,” let me know.

Otherwise I hope those voices you keep on talking to in your head don’t keep you up too late.


You know i find it interesting that I didn't see any of you rabid gun hating liberals say jack s**t when the liberal whack job shot a bunch of GOP congressman at a baseball game guess that's ok though.


Well, strato, you ain’t known for your listening skills.

One-sided sensationalism, well, yeah.
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:38 am

On the subject of self made guns simply circumventing and gun laws. Why is this not an issue in other countries or for other things which are banned or regulated that are easy to make at home such as explosives, poisonous chemicals. One can make high explosives in their shed with ingredients bought from amazon but that's doesn't mean that we should let people buy paveways does it?

In the U.K. It has been recognised in the motoring legislation that those who look after old cars in their sheds actually have safer cars.

Fred


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:01 am

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Why does someone need semi-automatic weapons?
NIKV69 wrote:

You have got to be kidding me!

Those two girls couldn't handle the little popguns they had, and you want to let them loose with semi-automatics? :banghead:

For sure, somebody would have been killed, but my money is on the daughter shooting her own mother, which she very nearly accomplished at 1m20s. Perhaps if she had put the phone down and held the gun in both hands, or taken up a better shooting angle, or...... yeah, let's give her an AR-15 instead.

For those who haven't seen the video, here's a summary.
The single robber, armed with a shotgun, was only interested in the cash register, and had no intention of harming the two clerks. Please don't argue that I couldn't possibly know that as I will simply re-direct you back to the video.
And while we are at it, even after he was fired upon, I didn't see him open up with the shotgun, which begs the question, was it even loaded?

They two women (Mother, 53 & daughter, 30) displayed no tactical awareness and should have taken defensive positions to either side of the counter, or retired to the rear of the store. (q.v. Second Amendment "well regulated {i.e. trained} militia")

Quote of the day; "Ashley then puts her hands up as Tyrone rifles through the register."

Numerous shots were fired at the perp, mainly from very close range, and yet the main risk was shot #1 which nearly took out the CCTV camera, and later when the daughter joined in with a second weapon and narrowly missed hitting her mother whilst she wrestled with the perp. When you are in possession of a loaded gun, and the other man isn't (Tyrone Lee having now discarded the useless shotgun), don't let him get close enough to be a problem.

The only reason this wasn't a total bloodbath is because the perp, Tyrone Lee, did not discharge his shotgun at the women. And because the handguns that the women used didn't seem to have lethal stopping power. On both counts we should be grateful.
Imparting semi-automatic weapons to either side would not in any way have improved this outcome. But you wouldn't guess that from the responses posted on various sites. For many in America this video is the gun-lovers equivalent of porn. I'm sure countless good ol' boys all around America watched it whilst nursing a semi......

But let's end with a nice touch; Tyrone Lee's aunt stopped by the store on Friday. She apologized to the family who own & run the store (which includes the two women involved), and AFAIK they apologized to her for having to put her nephew into hospital. :D


Both of those ladies could have easily lost their lives. They were very very lucky their opposition was not in better shape. If you pull a gun for offense or defense, be ready to use it, with deadly force if necessary, and *not* as a scare tactic/deterrent to make the bad guys 'just go away'. Both women need training. The mother should have ordered the shooter to the ground when he came back in the store (apparently unarmed), and, if he didn't comply, shoot him. The mother instead, decided to vent her anger and disgust at being robbed, and 'attack' the felon with her 'mouth', and while she was in that 'conversation', the felon lurched at her and struggled to get the mother's gun (to likely kill them both). At that very juncture, the daughter missed an opportunity to just walk up close enough to shoot the perp in the head - dead. The daughter was all about calling 911, while in the middle of gun battle!!

When someone is foolish enough to go for a police officer's gun, the law allows the officer to assume deadly intent, and to use deadly force, on the unarmed person person doing for their service weapon.

Women can be trained in weapons tactics just as well as men.
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
WIederling
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:20 am

FreequentFlier wrote:
The right to carry and to self defense is a civil right, regardless of whether you like it or not.


In its current legal _interpretation_ which seems to be rather contrived.

".. Milita ... bear arms" has lots of leeway for interpretation.

at the moment a very extreme interpretation is upheld. But that is not set in stone.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 995
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:24 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Both of those ladies could have easily lost their lives. They were very very lucky their opposition was not in better shape. If you pull a gun for offense or defense, be ready to use it, with deadly force if necessary, and *not* as a scare tactic/deterrent to make the bad guys 'just go away'. Both women need training. The mother should have ordered the shooter to the ground when he came back in the store (apparently unarmed), and, if he didn't comply, shoot him. The mother instead, decided to vent her anger and disgust at being robbed, and 'attack' the felon with her 'mouth', and while she was in that 'conversation', the felon lurched at her and struggled to get the mother's gun (to likely kill them both). At that very juncture, the daughter missed an opportunity to just walk up close enough to shoot the perp in the head - dead. The daughter was all about calling 911, while in the middle of gun battle!!

Women can be trained in weapons tactics just as well as men.

Excellent points. Especially the comments about attacking the felon with her mouth, and the daughter trying to shoot a gun whilst calling 911.
What was needed was appropriate weapon(s), and training. Lots of training.
Or maybe recognition that those two women were not entirely comfortable with using guns even in that desperate situation?

I recognised a long time ago that I didn't have the right temperament to be an airline pilot. Sure, I could have been trained to fly a 747, but my heart would not have been in it, and ultimately it would have ended badly for myself and a bunch of passengers. I still love aviation, and a part of me is even fascinated by guns, but on both counts it's probably best if I keep my hands in my pockets and leave these toys to other people.

Since we are (on this occasion) broadly in agreement (women, guns, lack of training); how do you feel about NIKV69's assertion that this event is justification for semi-automatic weapons?
seb146 wrote:
Why does someone need semi-automatic weapons?
NIKV69 wrote:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Those two girls couldn't handle the little popguns they had, and you want to let them loose with semi-automatics? :banghead:

For sure, somebody would have been killed, but my money is on the daughter shooting her own mother, which she very nearly accomplished at 1m20s. Perhaps if she had put the phone down and held the gun in both hands, or taken up a better shooting angle, or...... yeah, let's give her an AR-15 instead.

Imparting semi-automatic weapons to either side would not in any way have improved this outcome. But you wouldn't guess that from the responses posted on various sites. For many in America this video is the gun-lovers equivalent of porn. I'm sure countless good ol' boys all around America watched it whilst nursing a semi......[/quote]
I promised myself I'd leave before the party turned ugly. I would quit at 1000 !
Here I am stuck at 994; each time I'm tempted to post, I find myself wondering who will even read it / what is the point?
Or maybe I've just got nothing left to say.
 
seb146
Posts: 17851
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:12 pm

stratosphere wrote:
jetero wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:

A complete ban on all firearms is an extremely unpopular position. If you want to maintain your place in the political wilderness, by all means continue to maintain your position and keep snarking away.

Hope you're enjoying your tax cut.



Dorothy you’re still talking to yourself.

Scroll up, Dot.
\



When you can find where I argued for “a complete ban on all firearms,” let me know.

Otherwise I hope those voices you keep on talking to in your head don’t keep you up too late.


You know i find it interesting that I didn't see any of you rabid gun hating liberals say jack s**t when the liberal whack job shot a bunch of GOP congressman at a baseball game guess that's ok though.


It gave righties a chance to see what it was really like to be in a mass shooting. Why should "rabid gun hating liberals" say anything? We already knew their response: take away all guns (accoring to you and other ammosexuals and gun nuts). And, yes, there was call for gun reform. From "rabid gun hating liberals." It was ammosexual gun nuts on the right AFTER THEIR OWN WERE GUNNED DOWN that said "well, this just proves we need MORE guns!" How did that work out for ya?

https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/15/politics ... index.html

BTW, your "good guy with a gun" theory fell flat on March 30, 1981

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/on-this-da ... -hinckley/

Even after that, St. Ronnie became a "rabid gun hating liberal."
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
bagoldex
Posts: 785
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:42 pm

FreequentFlier wrote:
The point is pretty clear - for every person on the left saying they're just asking for "reasonable" restrictions, there are an equivalent number of others (like you) fantasizing about driving gun owners "underground", or likening them to terrorists or traitors.


FreequentFlier wrote:
But banning guns is not something that 2nd Amendment supporters will ever tolerate. There will be massive civil disibedience on a scale you've never seen before.


FreequentFlier wrote:
Like I said I'm not a gun owner. But if they were banned, I'd 3D print some myself. And good luck stopping it because it would be untraceable.


This sounds like a course of action that only a terrorist or a desperate and disturbed person would take. Only difference is the terrorist might be bright enough to not disclose their intentions in public.

If I knew who you were I’d drop a tip with the FBI in a second.
Last edited by bagoldex on Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 995
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:01 pm

FreequentFlier wrote:
But banning guns is not something that 2nd Amendment supporters will ever tolerate. There will be massive civil disibedience on a scale you've never seen before.

FreequentFlier wrote:
Like I said I'm not a gun owner. But if they were banned, I'd 3D print some myself. And good luck stopping it because it would be untraceable.
bagoldex wrote:
This sounds like a course of action that only a terrorist or desperate and disturbed person would take.
If I knew who you were I’d drop a tip with the FBI in a second.

But, but, but... that can't be right. He's a PATRIOT and doing the right thing. Donald Trump said so.

"Wayne, Chris and the folks who work so hard at the @NRA are Great People and Great American Patriots. They love our Country and will do the right thing. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!"
I promised myself I'd leave before the party turned ugly. I would quit at 1000 !
Here I am stuck at 994; each time I'm tempted to post, I find myself wondering who will even read it / what is the point?
Or maybe I've just got nothing left to say.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:05 pm

FreequentFlier wrote:
Like I said I'm not a gun owner. But if they were banned, I'd 3D print some myself. And good luck stopping it because it would be untraceable.

Why mess about printing guns? Just print $100 dollar bills. Clearly no-one could stop you "because it would be untraceable"

Or you could...
Adjust your reality accordingly.
I promised myself I'd leave before the party turned ugly. I would quit at 1000 !
Here I am stuck at 994; each time I'm tempted to post, I find myself wondering who will even read it / what is the point?
Or maybe I've just got nothing left to say.
 
JJJ
Posts: 2990
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:55 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
On the subject of self made guns simply circumventing and gun laws. Why is this not an issue in other countries or for other things which are banned or regulated that are easy to make at home such as explosives, poisonous chemicals.


It is an issue, actually. Buying deactivated arms and making new parts to make them fully functional again, or turning semi-autos into full-autos is something that happens in Europe.

But it's illegal, in the same category that trafficking is, so it's something only gangs, bank robbers, etc do.

The idea that common people would knowingly commit crimes with lengthy prison sentences just because they like playing with guns is ludicrous.

There are ways to keep arms legally. If you don't qualify or don't want to pass through the legal hoops necessary to get one it's usually for a very good reason.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:52 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
Both of those ladies could have easily lost their lives. They were very very lucky their opposition was not in better shape. If you pull a gun for offense or defense, be ready to use it, with deadly force if necessary, and *not* as a scare tactic/deterrent to make the bad guys 'just go away'. Both women need training. The mother should have ordered the shooter to the ground when he came back in the store (apparently unarmed), and, if he didn't comply, shoot him. The mother instead, decided to vent her anger and disgust at being robbed, and 'attack' the felon with her 'mouth', and while she was in that 'conversation', the felon lurched at her and struggled to get the mother's gun (to likely kill them both). At that very juncture, the daughter missed an opportunity to just walk up close enough to shoot the perp in the head - dead. The daughter was all about calling 911, while in the middle of gun battle!!

Women can be trained in weapons tactics just as well as men.

Excellent points. Especially the comments about attacking the felon with her mouth, and the daughter trying to shoot a gun whilst calling 911.
What was needed was appropriate weapon(s), and training. Lots of training.
Or maybe recognition that those two women were not entirely comfortable with using guns even in that desperate situation?

I recognised a long time ago that I didn't have the right temperament to be an airline pilot. Sure, I could have been trained to fly a 747, but my heart would not have been in it, and ultimately it would have ended badly for myself and a bunch of passengers. I still love aviation, and a part of me is even fascinated by guns, but on both counts it's probably best if I keep my hands in my pockets and leave these toys to other people.

Since we are (on this occasion) broadly in agreement (women, guns, lack of training); how do you feel about NIKV69's assertion that this event is justification for semi-automatic weapons?
seb146 wrote:
Why does someone need semi-automatic weapons?
NIKV69 wrote:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Those two girls couldn't handle the little popguns they had, and you want to let them loose with semi-automatics? :banghead:

For sure, somebody would have been killed, but my money is on the daughter shooting her own mother, which she very nearly accomplished at 1m20s. Perhaps if she had put the phone down and held the gun in both hands, or taken up a better shooting angle, or...... yeah, let's give her an AR-15 instead.

Imparting semi-automatic weapons to either side would not in any way have improved this outcome. But you wouldn't guess that from the responses posted on various sites. For many in America this video is the gun-lovers equivalent of porn. I'm sure countless good ol' boys all around America watched it whilst nursing a semi......


I would say, for that application, that you first have to define your strategy. If your strategy is to take out a perp in your store that's brandishing a shotgun, with just one shot, you'd need to be able to handle the recoil from a high caliber weapon, like a 45. If that's not an option, then you need a firearm, with a manageable recoil, that can be re-loaded with a clip, after firing multiple shots at the target, until, they go down. But, I do not think a Saturday Night Special is the answer for that. But to go along with right weapon for the women, should be enough time spent at a shooting range, to be completely comfortable with how the weapon fires, and operates.
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
FreequentFlier
Posts: 832
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:30 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:58 pm

bagoldex wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:
The point is pretty clear - for every person on the left saying they're just asking for "reasonable" restrictions, there are an equivalent number of others (like you) fantasizing about driving gun owners "underground", or likening them to terrorists or traitors.


FreequentFlier wrote:
But banning guns is not something that 2nd Amendment supporters will ever tolerate. There will be massive civil disibedience on a scale you've never seen before.


FreequentFlier wrote:
Like I said I'm not a gun owner. But if they were banned, I'd 3D print some myself. And good luck stopping it because it would be untraceable.


This sounds like a course of action that only a terrorist or a desperate and disturbed person would take. Only difference is the terrorist might be bright enough to not disclose their intentions in public.

If I knew who you were I’d drop a tip with the FBI in a second.


Do you drop tips on the millions of people who smoke marijuana every day? It's a federal crime even to this day.

And let's not even talk about the Prohibition Era.

Good luck with that gun ban guys.
 
bagoldex
Posts: 785
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Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:12 am

FreequentFlier wrote:
bagoldex wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:
The point is pretty clear - for every person on the left saying they're just asking for "reasonable" restrictions, there are an equivalent number of others (like you) fantasizing about driving gun owners "underground", or likening them to terrorists or traitors.


FreequentFlier wrote:
But banning guns is not something that 2nd Amendment supporters will ever tolerate. There will be massive civil disibedience on a scale you've never seen before.


FreequentFlier wrote:
Like I said I'm not a gun owner. But if they were banned, I'd 3D print some myself. And good luck stopping it because it would be untraceable.


This sounds like a course of action that only a terrorist or a desperate and disturbed person would take. Only difference is the terrorist might be bright enough to not disclose their intentions in public.

If I knew who you were I’d drop a tip with the FBI in a second.


Do you drop tips on the millions of people who smoke marijuana every day? It's a federal crime even to this day.


Because smoking grass is exactly like plotting to manufacture and stockpile illegal arms. What time does your weekend pass from the bin expire?
 
NIKV69
Posts: 11813
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:14 am

The Juice is loose and he is in Vegas!
 
jetero
Posts: 3758
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:35 am

FreequentFlier wrote:
bagoldex wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:
The point is pretty clear - for every person on the left saying they're just asking for "reasonable" restrictions, there are an equivalent number of others (like you) fantasizing about driving gun owners "underground", or likening them to terrorists or traitors.


FreequentFlier wrote:
But banning guns is not something that 2nd Amendment supporters will ever tolerate. There will be massive civil disibedience on a scale you've never seen before.


FreequentFlier wrote:
Like I said I'm not a gun owner. But if they were banned, I'd 3D print some myself. And good luck stopping it because it would be untraceable.


This sounds like a course of action that only a terrorist or a desperate and disturbed person would take. Only difference is the terrorist might be bright enough to not disclose their intentions in public.

If I knew who you were I’d drop a tip with the FBI in a second.


Do you drop tips on the millions of people who smoke marijuana every day? It's a federal crime even to this day.

And let's not even talk about the Prohibition Era.

Good luck with that gun ban guys.


Thanks Dorothy!
 
seb146
Posts: 17851
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:06 am

FreequentFlier wrote:
bagoldex wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:
The point is pretty clear - for every person on the left saying they're just asking for "reasonable" restrictions, there are an equivalent number of others (like you) fantasizing about driving gun owners "underground", or likening them to terrorists or traitors.


FreequentFlier wrote:
But banning guns is not something that 2nd Amendment supporters will ever tolerate. There will be massive civil disibedience on a scale you've never seen before.


FreequentFlier wrote:
Like I said I'm not a gun owner. But if they were banned, I'd 3D print some myself. And good luck stopping it because it would be untraceable.


This sounds like a course of action that only a terrorist or a desperate and disturbed person would take. Only difference is the terrorist might be bright enough to not disclose their intentions in public.

If I knew who you were I’d drop a tip with the FBI in a second.


Do you drop tips on the millions of people who smoke marijuana every day? It's a federal crime even to this day.

And let's not even talk about the Prohibition Era.

Good luck with that gun ban guys.


I find it interesting you are the only one talking about banning guns....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 995
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:20 am

NIKV69 wrote:

And? What?

That video is over 27 minutes long. Can you at least give us a proper summary of the points it makes, and maybe where you stand on them.
Then we might be able to assess whether it is worth 27 minutes of our lives watching it too.

p.s. This isn't even your first offense; I let the last one go, but there has to be a limit.

Rule 1.i.3
... do not post links, news stories or press releases without adding your own comments to them. Links should always be accompanied by some description of the link content.
I promised myself I'd leave before the party turned ugly. I would quit at 1000 !
Here I am stuck at 994; each time I'm tempted to post, I find myself wondering who will even read it / what is the point?
Or maybe I've just got nothing left to say.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 11813
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:05 am

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

And? What?

That video is over 27 minutes long. Can you at least give us a proper summary of the points it makes, and maybe where you stand on them.
Then we might be able to assess whether it is worth 27 minutes of our lives watching it too.

p.s. This isn't even your first offense; I let the last one go, but there has to be a limit.

Rule 1.i.3
... do not post links, news stories or press releases without adding your own comments to them. Links should always be accompanied by some description of the link content.


Did you watch it? Actually the best was at the end when he made the OJ analogy when asked if they missed the countless signs and warnings but you will ignore it since it's easier to blame the NRA and GOP

Since you want to be a hall monitor maybe you can address the trolling which includes bigotry and flamebait as well? Just saying.
The Juice is loose and he is in Vegas!
 
seb146
Posts: 17851
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:16 am

NIKV69 wrote:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

And? What?

That video is over 27 minutes long. Can you at least give us a proper summary of the points it makes, and maybe where you stand on them.
Then we might be able to assess whether it is worth 27 minutes of our lives watching it too.

p.s. This isn't even your first offense; I let the last one go, but there has to be a limit.

Rule 1.i.3
... do not post links, news stories or press releases without adding your own comments to them. Links should always be accompanied by some description of the link content.


Did you watch it? Actually the best was at the end when he made the OJ analogy when asked if they missed the countless signs and warnings but you will ignore it since it's easier to blame the NRA and GOP

Since you want to be a hall monitor maybe you can address the trolling which includes bigotry and flamebait as well? Just saying.


Again, leaving out the first part: Heavily armed sheriffs deputies did not enter the building. They had more firepower and more people but they did not engage the shooter. In a state where guns laws are minimal.

But, yeah, go ahead and skip to the last minute or so. That is more important anyway, for some reason.

And, yes, your comment with your link is nearly meaningless, unless a person has 30 minutes to sit and watch the whole thing. Or we already watched it live the first time....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Posts: 1000
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:23 am

stratosphere wrote:
jetero wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:

A complete ban on all firearms is an extremely unpopular position. If you want to maintain your place in the political wilderness, by all means continue to maintain your position and keep snarking away.

Hope you're enjoying your tax cut.



Dorothy you’re still talking to yourself.

Scroll up, Dot.
\



When you can find where I argued for “a complete ban on all firearms,” let me know.

Otherwise I hope those voices you keep on talking to in your head don’t keep you up too late.


You know i find it interesting that I didn't see any of you rabid gun hating liberals say jack s**t when the liberal whack job shot a bunch of GOP congressman at a baseball game guess that's ok though.


Was the genuine condolences and condemnation from every democratic member of Congress not good enough for you? Also do you not see the irony in citing a liberal gun lover while calling all liberals gun haters?
 
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DIRECTFLT
Posts: 1522
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:34 am

Kurt Russell speaks to Whoopi about Gun Control:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uy0_IZ0MWts
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
User avatar
DIRECTFLT
Posts: 1522
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:36 am

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

And? What?

That video is over 27 minutes long. Can you at least give us a proper summary of the points it makes, and maybe where you stand on them.
Then we might be able to assess whether it is worth 27 minutes of our lives watching it too.

p.s. This isn't even your first offense; I let the last one go, but there has to be a limit.

Rule 1.i.3
... do not post links, news stories or press releases without adding your own comments to them. Links should always be accompanied by some description of the link content.


Links should always be accompanied by some description of the link content.

Couldn't agree more. :checkmark:
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
jetero
Posts: 3758
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Florida shooting - Europe should set an example to the USA

Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:33 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Kurt Russell speaks to Whoopi about Gun Control:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uy0_IZ0MWts


Andy Griffith speaks about gun control:

https://youtu.be/4Fer9ql7itc

(Main idea: Guns are for p*ssies)
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