• 1
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 9
  • 12
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 6549
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:38 pm

Scorpius wrote:
My reaction is not because the Russian do not have anything to do with this.


Now you consent to the fact that Russia has played a role in the shooting down of the MH17? That is progress, baby steps, but still.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
anrec80
Posts: 1125
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:12 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Not some dudes, just with scientific methods to rank countries by democracy standards. You don't have to do anything with it, just realize you live in an autocracy with limited personal freedoms. We can conclude that those seven candidates will never succeed in an autocracy. So that backs the question why you brought them to the table?


Vast majority of Russians are perfectly happy with degree of their personal freedoms. What’s your issue with this? And - we’ve seen the example of our South-Western neighbors who looked at a similar “scientific” ranking. No, thank you. We are happy where we are.
 
anrec80
Posts: 1125
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:21 pm

Jouhou wrote:
To my recollection the Russian government can keep a perfectly balanced budget but secretive military projects operate outside of the budget the Duma approves. Russia would gain money again if oil prices spike, but increases in fuel costs accelerates the transition to renewables and gains in efficiency in fossil fuel powered things.

It seems like Russia wants to blame sanctions (and then say sanctions don't hurt them) to give the Russian people a scapegoat when the reality is the budget was dependent on an undiversified fossil fuel economy.


Not really. In fact their oil and energy exports amount to about half of their total exports. Used to be up to 80% not too long ago. And they are doing fine as you can see. Overall, this hit with sanctions combined with drop in oil price was much stronger that the one that led USSR to lose control over economy. And not only they managed it well, but they managed it to their advantage. Getting rid of oil dependency - is about half-a-century dream of theirs. Now it’s coming true.
 
anrec80
Posts: 1125
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:25 pm

Jouhou wrote:
I know, but between the mh17 denial and ranting about how he has history "wrong" isn't good for relations in general. We already suspect you guys are not "regular" Russians because you do not share the same knowledge or attitudes of actual average Russians. So we are viewing your responses as being the official stance of the Russian government itself, and at this point it's not making you look good or friendly.


Look, we all understand the tragedy of MH-17. But most importantly - you should stop demanding someone to acknowledge something they have nothing to do with. The whole Ukrainian story is about 4 years old, and nobody has even shown even a single “aggressor” - neither dead nor alive. Even ordinary Ukrainians perfectly know that. It’s only you on the West press with these myths.

Speaking of MH-17 - well, you don’t accuse someone of something now bothering to have any proof. You can conclude that someone is guilty by going to court and winning the case. Not before that, and there is no other way. We were promised some trial this year - let’s see what happens and where will it get.
 
salttee
Posts: 2470
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:32 pm

anrec80 wrote:
It’s only you on the West press with these myths.
There's the root of your problem: Ukraine is in the west.
 
anrec80
Posts: 1125
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:35 pm

Dutchy wrote:
*Sight*

First I don't take your behavior here as the common norm for all Russians, I repeatedly said I only speak for myself. If you want to insult me, like you have done numerous of times, fine, do that if that's the way you want to debate, but don't insult my fellow countrymen because you feel underappreciated by these facts presented here, that is your problem.

The difference with the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact divided up another country between the partners, but I guess you don't mind that since you have shown here a total disrespect for international borders anyway.

And really man of the year? That is your argument? Jozef Stalin was man of the year in 1939, Nikita Chroesjtsjov (1957), Ayatollah Khomeini (1979), Michail Gorbatsjov (1987/1989), Vladimir Poetin (2007). So what are you actually saying here?


Dutchy - 1930s altogether weren’t the brightest period of history for all West. Yes, Russia had Stalin’s overkills at that time, overly invasive food distribution policies that led to famines. These things existed, and they are not forgivable, and that was publicly accepted and acknowledged by Khrushchev in 1956. Germany at the same time had Hitler with all his “projects”. USA had Great Depression, where in one part of town someone pours milk and orange juice onto the ground, while blocks away someone is dying from hunger.

“Democratic” western powers also did their little deeds. Austrian “Anschluss”, then Czechoslovakia was just given to Hitler. Nobody was an angel.
 
anrec80
Posts: 1125
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:39 pm

salttee wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
It’s only you on the West press with these myths.
There's the root of your problem: Ukraine is in the west.


What about Ukraine is Western? Majority of people living in that territory (slight majority, but nonetheless) never cared about the West. This majority was slight before with the East and Crimea, but now it’s also there due to disappointment with the West. Current regime is dependent upon USA, true. But they came to power illegally seizing it by force, and and have been throwing all the opposition into garbage tanks, while West applauded this called this farce a “democratic election”. Hence they do not represent anybody.
 
anrec80
Posts: 1125
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:49 pm

Jouhou wrote:
But the world knows their narrative is a lie because we have eyes and ears. Russians know it's a lie because there was active recruitment of "volunteers". So I don't know who they think they are fooling.


Interesting - where there’s “active recruitment of volunteers”? Every conflict like this draws people from all over. On Ukrainian side, you can find European marginals, who share neo-Nazi beliefs, for example. Just because some volunteers are there, we don’t say that Norway, Sweden, Germany or some other countries participate in this conflict. Or should we start perhaps? Same is true about Russia.

And again - who’s this “world”? What you call “world”, it’s just the USA and some Western countries, which constitute maybe 20% of Earth’s population. You should stop using this word.
 
Scorpius
Posts: 651
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:14 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:05 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Scorpius wrote:
My reaction is not because the Russian do not have anything to do with this.

Now you consent to the fact that Russia has played a role in the shooting down of the MH17? That is progress, baby steps, but still.

The Russians have nothing to do with MH17.
That's why you can't wait for me to react.
And stop lying already. I disagreed with this idiotic theory THAT mh17 was allegedly hit by Russians.
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 1000
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:46 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
I know, but between the mh17 denial and ranting about how he has history "wrong" isn't good for relations in general. We already suspect you guys are not "regular" Russians because you do not share the same knowledge or attitudes of actual average Russians. So we are viewing your responses as being the official stance of the Russian government itself, and at this point it's not making you look good or friendly.


Look, we all understand the tragedy of MH-17. But most importantly - you should stop demanding someone to acknowledge something they have nothing to do with. The whole Ukrainian story is about 4 years old, and nobody has even shown even a single “aggressor” - neither dead nor alive. Even ordinary Ukrainians perfectly know that. It’s only you on the West press with these myths.

Speaking of MH-17 - well, you don’t accuse someone of something now bothering to have any proof. You can conclude that someone is guilty by going to court and winning the case. Not before that, and there is no other way. We were promised some trial this year - let’s see what happens and where will it get.


We have proof, You just dismiss it as western lies.

You guys have really managed to make me hate Russia. It's bizarre, you keep making Russia look worse than I originally thought of it.
 
solarflyer22
Posts: 1517
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:07 pm

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:42 pm

I can sympathize with OP's point of view but I would make 1 comment. Russia definitely does some bad things but I would say 99.9% of what they do is in response to something stupid the US did and its also something we do.

Take elections for example, yes, they interfered and propagandize. So does Israel via its AIPAC lobby as well as the Arabs through "dark money" donations to Daddy Trump etc. The US on the other hand, spies on everyone doesnt just impact elections, they OVERTHROW people. The most egregious case of this is in Iran, now completely declassified and not a "conspiracy theory", where they quite literally used the CIA to topple a Democratically elected secular government so they could install a dictator king.

The US is getting a taste of its own medicine now and they don't like it. I understand that but this is reality. Even if we engage in a Cold War with Russian what do we gain other than huge budget deficits? Its our fault for not securing our elections, closing cyber security loopholes and having a federal election bureau to oversee things.

Educated people also don't fall for propaganda and yet we refuse to subsidize college and fix public schools. Europe does and it shows. Putin tried to back Marie Le Pen and his spying and propaganda efforts failed.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 6549
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:02 am

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
*Sight*

First I don't take your behavior here as the common norm for all Russians, I repeatedly said I only speak for myself. If you want to insult me, like you have done numerous of times, fine, do that if that's the way you want to debate, but don't insult my fellow countrymen because you feel underappreciated by these facts presented here, that is your problem.

The difference with the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact divided up another country between the partners, but I guess you don't mind that since you have shown here a total disrespect for international borders anyway.

And really man of the year? That is your argument? Jozef Stalin was man of the year in 1939, Nikita Chroesjtsjov (1957), Ayatollah Khomeini (1979), Michail Gorbatsjov (1987/1989), Vladimir Poetin (2007). So what are you actually saying here?


Dutchy - 1930s altogether weren’t the brightest period of history for all West. Yes, Russia had Stalin’s overkills at that time, overly invasive food distribution policies that led to famines. These things existed, and they are not forgivable, and that was publicly accepted and acknowledged by Khrushchev in 1956. Germany at the same time had Hitler with all his “projects”. USA had Great Depression, where in one part of town someone pours milk and orange juice onto the ground, while blocks away someone is dying from hunger.

“Democratic” western powers also did their little deeds. Austrian “Anschluss”, then Czechoslovakia was just given to Hitler. Nobody was an angel.


Whataboutism tactic again. Nobody was an angel, agreed, but not everyone played the same part in this. Stalin's policies led famines in Ukraine which killed an estimated, 7-10million people. And you want to put that on the same level as someone pouring milk and orange juice to the ground? Chroesjtsjov admitted it - can't attack him for being prejudice, why do people feel the need to defend him? You are doing it with saying "nobody was an angel" and Scorpius by calling him one of the greatest politicians ever lived. I have no problem with admitting the wrongdoings of my country, why is it so hard for Russians to admit to anything even if it is in the past?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 6549
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:05 am

Scorpius wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Scorpius wrote:
My reaction is not because the Russian do not have anything to do with this.

Now you consent to the fact that Russia has played a role in the shooting down of the MH17? That is progress, baby steps, but still.

The Russians have nothing to do with MH17.
That's why you can't wait for me to react.
And stop lying already. I disagreed with this idiotic theory THAT mh17 was allegedly hit by Russians.


Such a shame, I thought you were becoming a little bit more openminded and warming up to the idea that your country does have something to do with it but alas, nope. Never seem to amaze me where people could disagree with, in this case, a fact.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 6549
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:19 am

anrec80 wrote:
Speaking of MH-17 - well, you don’t accuse someone of something now bothering to have any proof. You can conclude that someone is guilty by going to court and winning the case. Not before that, and there is no other way. We were promised some trial this year - let’s see what happens and where will it get.


Good too see you welcome the rule of law and you advocate for this here. Keep it up, Anrec80.

For the MH17, indeed nobody as a person has been accused yet, nobody has been invited to defend themselves in court. All we know is that the Joint Investigation Team has a number of persons of interest which they like to hear, all Russians I believe and we know the timeline of the missile and missile carrier to and from the Russian Federation territory. That's what we know.

And hopefully, these people will come forward to being heard and if endited they come to the Netherlands to being tried in an open and independent court.

But since you are so keen to see people and countries being treated fairly and equally, I guess you missed this post by Scorpius, he has no proof what so ever. You must be furious about this post:

Scorpius wrote:
This was done by the Ukrainian military at the direction of Washington.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
WIederling
Posts: 6544
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:21 am

anrec80 wrote:
. In order to sell shale LNG at high spot market prices, ..


Well, the LNG the US sells to Poland ( to be independent of the subhumans across the border )
is Russian natural gas going through many hands while being relabeled. :-) Fun isn't it?
Murphy is an optimist
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 1000
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:36 am

WIederling wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
. In order to sell shale LNG at high spot market prices, ..


Well, the LNG the US sells to Poland ( to be independent of the subhumans across the border )
is Russian natural gas going through many hands while being relabeled. :-) Fun isn't it?


I'm thinking you may have been had by agitprop-

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/ng_move_expc_s1_a.htm

Apparently We've sold some lng to Poland but it's a tiny amount. I'm pretty sure North Africa is a far more convenient non-european exporter for europe.
 
WIederling
Posts: 6544
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:11 am

Jouhou wrote:
I'm thinking you may have been had by agitprop-

continue cherishing your agitprop ( or whatever.)

for your entertainment ( use google translate ..):
https://www.heise.de/tp/features/Liebes ... 65290.html
Murphy is an optimist
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 1000
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:31 am

WIederling wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
I'm thinking you may have been had by agitprop-

continue cherishing your agitprop ( or whatever.)

for your entertainment ( use google translate ..):
https://www.heise.de/tp/features/Liebes ... 65290.html


I think I've mentioned we have to import natural gas and pay higher energy prices than the rest of the US?

Personally, I just can't wait till we start building giant wind turbines off our coast!

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/ng_move_impc_s1_a.htm

I bet most of these imports are going to places like where I live.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 6549
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:44 pm

Jouhou wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
I'm thinking you may have been had by agitprop-

continue cherishing your agitprop ( or whatever.)

for your entertainment ( use google translate ..):
https://www.heise.de/tp/features/Liebes ... 65290.html


I think I've mentioned we have to import natural gas and pay higher energy prices than the rest of the US?

Personally, I just can't wait till we start building giant wind turbines off our coast!

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/ng_move_impc_s1_a.htm

I bet most of these imports are going to places like where I live.


Just do it, I know a lot of people whom can make that happen for you and the prices for these wind turbines are dropping at the moment ;-)
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 6549
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:01 pm

Putin says that the Russian government has nothing to do with hacking the American elections and at the same time he will not extradite the 13 to America. So that's it, these Russians will not be held accountable for what they have done and the Russian state protects these Russian citizens.

https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/ ... 6423491584

Probably the same thing will happen with MH17, denial from the Russian government and will not extradite subjects.

Hopefully, this trail and the MH17 trail will go ahead with the absence of the suspects and will have ample of opportunity to defend themselves and then it is up to them to come or not. For these crimes, it should be possible to have no trail just because Russia is protecting these people.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 8203
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:58 pm

WIederling wrote:
Well, the LNG the US sells to Poland ( to be independent of the subhumans across the border )
is Russian natural gas going through many hands while being relabeled.

Why do you think they are "subhuman"? That's a very harsh and unnecessary thing to say. Russian's are not subhuman nor bad etc.

The key reason for second sourcing of energy supplies is to ensure none can be cutoff if there is a dispute or political issues that arise where suppliers are forced to reduce or cutoff deliveries. Proven alternate source are needed to ensure stable markets.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
WIederling
Posts: 6544
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:22 pm

Tugger wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Well, the LNG the US sells to Poland ( to be independent of the subhumans across the border )
is Russian natural gas going through many hands while being relabeled.

Why do you think they are "subhuman"? That's a very harsh and unnecessary thing to say. Russian's are not subhuman nor bad etc.

quoted speech, as seen by US, Poland and communicated in the press. :-)

The key reason for second sourcing of energy supplies is to ensure none can be cutoff if there is a dispute or political issues that arise where suppliers are forced to reduce or cutoff deliveries. Proven alternate source are needed to ensure stable markets.


Diversity is rather good here. Adding a known to be fickle supplier ( the US ) would not improve on the equation only on dependency.
https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten ... -laendern/

LNG is a bit of a resource pig. you lose 20% of its energy (unrecoverable ) in liquefaction.
pipeline gas takes about 10% for compression that are partly recoverable.
Murphy is an optimist
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 8203
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:39 pm

WIederling wrote:
quoted speech, as seen by US, Poland and communicated in the press. :-)

You say "quoted", can you provide a source/link for the quote? I do not know of any such by the USA at least.

WIederling wrote:
Diversity is rather good here. Adding a known to be fickle supplier ( the US ) would not improve on the equation only on dependency.
https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten ... -laendern/

LNG is a bit of a resource pig. you lose 20% of its energy (unrecoverable ) in liquefaction.
pipeline gas takes about 10% for compression that are partly recoverable.


The link appears to be a paid link? Also do you have the link in english (when I switch in the website itself it doesn't go to the page you are providing and I can't find it).

And as to your claim that US is a "fickle supplier", well first I don't see what you are trying to show. And second "the US" is not the supplier, it is the companies in the US that are supplying and I would have to see who those companies are and why there was a problem. I know the exports have only recently been ongoing as a regular thing for LNG and there have been very definite issues with its start (most around the number of shipments that could be processed out I think?).

As to the loss involved due to the processing involved, this is all factored into the price it is sold at. All energy loses something in its transmission.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
tu204
Posts: 1663
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:36 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:03 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Putin says that the Russian government has nothing to do with hacking the American elections and at the same time he will not extradite the 13 to America. So that's it, these Russians will not be held accountable for what they have done and the Russian state protects these Russian citizens.

https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/ ... 6423491584

Probably the same thing will happen with MH17, denial from the Russian government and will not extradite subjects.

Hopefully, this trail and the MH17 trail will go ahead with the absence of the suspects and will have ample of opportunity to defend themselves and then it is up to them to come or not. For these crimes, it should be possible to have no trail just because Russia is protecting these people.


Now tell me, do you honestly expect Russia to extradite any Russian citizen to anywhere? You do realise that the Russian Constitution directly forbids that, right?
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 6549
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:22 pm

I do not expect the Russian government to work with the JIT, they haven't done so, so why should that start now? The Russian government must be directly involved in supplying the BUK or worse, supplying the men as well. As noted, it is not necessary these men to appear, that is up to them.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
tu204
Posts: 1663
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:36 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:40 pm

Jouhou wrote:
You guys have really managed to make me hate Russia. It's bizarre, you keep making Russia look worse than I originally thought of it.


If I were you I wouldn't take this so close to heart and also don't fall prey to your propaganda. Do keep in mind that many Russians feel the same way about the US, you don't want this mass of people on either sides that hate each other to reach a critical mass ;) .

And also don't fool yourself into thinking that the whole World shares your views and hatred of Russia. For example I am currently working flying in Africa and lets just say that the people's views here of the US ranges from negative to outright hatred while people have a positive view of Russia. Just last week I was stopped by the police who started harrasing our (local) driver, but when I said that I was Russian, he shook my hand, thanked me for being here, shared his hopes that Russian presence will improve their overall situation and wished me a good night.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
tu204
Posts: 1663
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:36 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:44 pm

Dutchy wrote:
I do not expect the Russian government to work with the JIT, they haven't done so, so why should that start now? The Russian government must be directly involved in supplying the BUK or worse, supplying the men as well. As noted, it is not necessary these men to appear, that is up to them.


Ok, however in your post that I replied to you specifically stated disaproval that the Russian Federation is not extraditing some 13 individuals to the US on some bogus charges. I am sure that you know that the Russian Constitution specifically forbids this. So do you think we should change our Constitution to make it fit your agenda or interests? Maybe we should demand the same of you? Why should we change to fit your likings and not the other way around? :roll:
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 6549
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:15 pm

I believe in the rule of law and I believe in people whom are accused of something answer for this in the face of an independent judge. You call it a bogus charge, how do you know it is bogus, how do you know if it has some substance to it? Exactly, the independent judge can be the judge on that.

So yeah, disapproval that we will never know if these people are guilty or not, these will probably not be tried without them being present. The case of MH17 is different, much worse crimes and the Dutch public defenders offer is already on record that this might be an option if the defendant decides to ignore the invitation.

Apparently, it is fine with you that criminals of these kinds of crimes stay at large and in the meantime - as all indicates: Russian citizens are indeed going to be indicted - these individuals could also take the advantage to denounce the accusations. if they do decide to show up.

I am on record that I do not believe that this will happen.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
tu204
Posts: 1663
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:36 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:05 am

Dutchy wrote:
I believe in the rule of law and I believe in people whom are accused of something answer for this in the face of an independent judge. You call it a bogus charge, how do you know it is bogus, how do you know if it has some substance to it? Exactly, the independent judge can be the judge on that.


Well I for one don't even recognize the charges that the US has laid against the 13 Russian citizens for example. They are supposed to be indited for interfering in US elections and this in my opinion is not a crime at all considering the circumstances. So they should stand trial for what exactly? Maybe Russia should lay charges against half of the US congress? Are you ok with them being extradited to Russia to face trial for crimes against humanity and so on?
If I were Putin I would be giving medals to anyone that happened to appear on any US sanctions list for interference in their elections. :lol:
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
Route66
Posts: 203
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:47 pm

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:07 am

WIederling wrote:
Diversity is rather good here.


Is that a joke? Not only was it bad when Putin threatened to close your valves a few years ago, causing the submission of Europe, it is even worse today. Amazing really how Europe/Germany makes itself so completely reliant on the man they feign to hate.

Russia’s gas exports to Europe rise to record high
State-run Gazprom supplies close to 40 per cent of Europe’s supply
JANUARY 3, 2018

https://www.ft.com/content/7b86f4be-f08 ... 7e26d1aca4
 
seb146
Posts: 17851
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:15 am

tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
I believe in the rule of law and I believe in people whom are accused of something answer for this in the face of an independent judge. You call it a bogus charge, how do you know it is bogus, how do you know if it has some substance to it? Exactly, the independent judge can be the judge on that.


Well I for one don't even recognize the charges that the US has laid against the 13 Russian citizens for example. They are supposed to be indited for interfering in US elections and this in my opinion is not a crime at all considering the circumstances. So they should stand trial for what exactly? Maybe Russia should lay charges against half of the US congress? Are you ok with them being extradited to Russia to face trial for crimes against humanity and so on?
If I were Putin I would be giving medals to anyone that happened to appear on any US sanctions list for interference in their elections. :lol:


TU, What are you talking about? "If you charge us with A we can charge you with B in retaliation"? If Russians want to investigate, fine. They will find what they want to find. If the UN or International Court chooses to investigate because of compelling evidence, fine. They will find what they want to find. You are bringing up two different points.

1. Russia interfered with American elections.
2. United States has committed crimes against humanity.

Each is independent of the other. Just like the righties here think it is acceptable and great that Russia interfered in our elections because United States manipulated other country's elections.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Route66
Posts: 203
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:47 pm

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:21 am

seb146 wrote:
Just like the righties here think it is acceptable and great that Russia interfered in our elections because United States manipulated other country's elections.


Not "great", not "acceptable" but an admission that what goes around, comes around. And you'd better be prepared for it.
 
jordanh
Posts: 223
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:56 pm

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:22 am

Scorpius wrote:
Russia should not depend on the EU for anything, so I want our country not to buy any goods from the EU. Let European farmers eat their own genetically modified foods. Let Airbus sells their planes to someone else, and dispenses with titanium and composites, which they are now supplied by Russia.
I also hope that the EU as soon as possible will give up our timber, oil, gas, cheaper metals, nuclear fuel, including plutonium RTG research probes, our missile technology, our sapphire material and our chemical products, including fertilizers. This will contribute to the early extinction of the EU and the return of you to the stone age, where you seem so eager to return. Personally, I'm in.


That is only fair, since Russia - or Russian politics, in particular - is currently mired in the Stone Age.

Jouhou wrote:
Why does the pro Putin crowd seem to think that every American is a part of some vast conspiracy to destroy the world? Like Russia, our oligarchs control our politics. I don't blame regular Russian civilians, so why are you blaming American civilians? Blame the Kochs. Just like how I blame Putin and Russia's oligarchs.


That most likely be because most of the "pro Putin crowd" on any website are paid prevacators and propagandists... probably all located in the same building in St. Petersburg.

anrec80 wrote:
Sure. "Troll factory" - total amounts spent on those Facebook ads range, based on sources, range between $100K and just north of $1.2M. Out of total 10 billion spent during the campaign. Does someone really think that 0.1% or 0.01% could have any impact on anything?


You admission is accepted. And yes, that many can have an impact; Trump won the election because of exactly 77,774 voters in 3 states - out of 139 million total. The disinformation campaign certainly can influence an election enough to "have an impact".
Last edited by jordanh on Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
seb146
Posts: 17851
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:39 am

Route66 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Just like the righties here think it is acceptable and great that Russia interfered in our elections because United States manipulated other country's elections.


Not "great", not "acceptable" but an admission that what goes around, comes around. And you'd better be prepared for it.


As much as tRump wants this to be a third-world Banana Republic, we still have freedom of thought and freedom of expression. That means we can actually research things and actually share links to sites that counter what Russian bots say and righties believe. Russia can try to overthrow our government and land with their propaganda, but it will not be as easy as it was before and will probably fail.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 1000
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:12 am

tu204 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
You guys have really managed to make me hate Russia. It's bizarre, you keep making Russia look worse than I originally thought of it.


If I were you I wouldn't take this so close to heart and also don't fall prey to your propaganda. Do keep in mind that many Russians feel the same way about the US, you don't want this mass of people on either sides that hate each other to reach a critical mass ;) .

And also don't fool yourself into thinking that the whole World shares your views and hatred of Russia. For example I am currently working flying in Africa and lets just say that the people's views here of the US ranges from negative to outright hatred while people have a positive view of Russia. Just last week I was stopped by the police who started harrasing our (local) driver, but when I said that I was Russian, he shook my hand, thanked me for being here, shared his hopes that Russian presence will improve their overall situation and wished me a good night.


I don't like how your fellows have a pattern of "I don't like where this conversation is going, so I'm going to threaten nuclear war"

At least you're real with us. So I'll be real with you.

YOU try living with these idiots Russia has cultivated here. They believe the worst of American beliefs and the worst of Russian beliefs at the same damn time. Y'all got what you wanted, please deprogram them so they're just regular morons again.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 6549
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:20 am

tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
I believe in the rule of law and I believe in people whom are accused of something answer for this in the face of an independent judge. You call it a bogus charge, how do you know it is bogus, how do you know if it has some substance to it? Exactly, the independent judge can be the judge on that.


Well I for one don't even recognize the charges that the US has laid against the 13 Russian citizens for example. They are supposed to be indited for interfering in US elections and this in my opinion is not a crime at all considering the circumstances. So they should stand trial for what exactly? Maybe Russia should lay charges against half of the US congress? Are you ok with them being extradited to Russia to face trial for crimes against humanity and so on?
If I were Putin I would be giving medals to anyone that happened to appear on any US sanctions list for interference in their elections. :lol:


You feel the same for the person of interest in the MH17 case? Pin medals on them and get it over with?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
tu204
Posts: 1663
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:36 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:07 am

Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
I believe in the rule of law and I believe in people whom are accused of something answer for this in the face of an independent judge. You call it a bogus charge, how do you know it is bogus, how do you know if it has some substance to it? Exactly, the independent judge can be the judge on that.


Well I for one don't even recognize the charges that the US has laid against the 13 Russian citizens for example. They are supposed to be indited for interfering in US elections and this in my opinion is not a crime at all considering the circumstances. So they should stand trial for what exactly? Maybe Russia should lay charges against half of the US congress? Are you ok with them being extradited to Russia to face trial for crimes against humanity and so on?
If I were Putin I would be giving medals to anyone that happened to appear on any US sanctions list for interference in their elections. :lol:


You feel the same for the person of interest in the MH17 case? Pin medals on them and get it over with?


I am not even close to understanding the whole story behind MH17 so can't say much here.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
WIederling
Posts: 6544
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:47 am

Route66 wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Diversity is rather good here.


Is that a joke? Not only was it bad when Putin threatened to close your valves a few years ago, causing the submission of Europe, it is even worse today. Amazing really how Europe/Germany makes itself so completely reliant on the man they feign to hate.


All the threats that were never really "there".

The issue at the time was with your protege Ukraine snitching gas on the side while not paying up for their official supply.
Apparently goaded on by the US. Same for Poland quacking about this and that while pointing at the transit gas cocks.
North stream works around this black hole. Obviously the US must work against that solution. And they busily do.

Again: the Soviets and now the Russian Federation were and are honorable business partners
keeping their side of a deal with care. The US is not. Just look at the Iran deal. Ink is not dry and the sophist "Iran is Satan" arguments bloom up again.
Murphy is an optimist
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 1000
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:13 am

WIederling wrote:
Route66 wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Diversity is rather good here.


Is that a joke? Not only was it bad when Putin threatened to close your valves a few years ago, causing the submission of Europe, it is even worse today. Amazing really how Europe/Germany makes itself so completely reliant on the man they feign to hate.


All the threats that were never really "there".

The issue at the time was with your protege Ukraine snitching gas on the side while not paying up for their official supply.
Apparently goaded on by the US. Same for Poland quacking about this and that while pointing at the transit gas cocks.
North stream works around this black hole. Obviously the US must work against that solution. And they busily do.

Again: the Soviets and now the Russian Federation were and are honorable business partners
keeping their side of a deal with care. The US is not. Just look at the Iran deal. Ink is not dry and the sophist "Iran is Satan" arguments bloom up again.


Can another german explain to me exactly how many east germans never got truly reunified? Like this dude is going beyond being skeptical of the US, and he's praising the soviet union???
 
Scorpius
Posts: 651
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:14 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:35 am

Watch your agents at radio Liberty publicly screw up twice in one day. :
1. https://twitter.com/SvobodaRadio/status ... 1269436417

2. https://twitter.com/SvobodaRadio/status ... 4907069440

First, these jerks launched a completely stupid sketch about Stalin, and then, when they laughed half of the Russian-speaking twitter, accused everyone that they are Kremlin agents.
Along the way, a lot of people get banned just because they do not share the opinion of "radio Liberty".
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 1000
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:56 am

Scorpius wrote:
Watch your agents at radio Liberty publicly screw up twice in one day. :
1. https://twitter.com/SvobodaRadio/status ... 1269436417

2. https://twitter.com/SvobodaRadio/status ... 4907069440

First, these jerks launched a completely stupid sketch about Stalin, and then, when they laughed half of the Russian-speaking twitter, accused everyone that they are Kremlin agents.
Along the way, a lot of people get banned just because they do not share the opinion of "radio Liberty".


Radio liberty is one of the last remaining vestiges of American propaganda. Those of us who have interest outside of our borders know it is propaganda. Most Americans don't know it exists. You have to leave the country to be exposed to it, it shows up in internet searches but not anywhere near top results. So, don't expect any americans outside of a forum like this (where people are well travelled) to have any clue about what you are talking about.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 6549
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:43 pm

tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:

Well I for one don't even recognize the charges that the US has laid against the 13 Russian citizens for example. They are supposed to be indited for interfering in US elections and this in my opinion is not a crime at all considering the circumstances. So they should stand trial for what exactly? Maybe Russia should lay charges against half of the US congress? Are you ok with them being extradited to Russia to face trial for crimes against humanity and so on?
If I were Putin I would be giving medals to anyone that happened to appear on any US sanctions list for interference in their elections. :lol:


You feel the same for the person of interest in the MH17 case? Pin medals on them and get it over with?


I am not even close to understanding the whole story behind MH17 so can't say much here.


Even though you have no problem with giving your opinion about the other incident. I don't think you know all the facts there, now do you?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 6549
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:19 pm

Scorpius wrote:
Watch your agents at radio Liberty publicly screw up twice in one day. :
1. https://twitter.com/SvobodaRadio/status ... 1269436417

2. https://twitter.com/SvobodaRadio/status ... 4907069440

First, these jerks launched a completely stupid sketch about Stalin, and then, when they laughed half of the Russian-speaking twitter, accused everyone that they are Kremlin agents.
Along the way, a lot of people get banned just because they do not share the opinion of "radio Liberty".


Might it be that your judgment is clouded by your preconceived ideas?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
tu204
Posts: 1663
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:36 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:26 pm

Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

You feel the same for the person of interest in the MH17 case? Pin medals on them and get it over with?


I am not even close to understanding the whole story behind MH17 so can't say much here.


Even though you have no problem with giving your opinion about the other incident. I don't think you know all the facts there, now do you?


Yeah, I don't have all the facts about the interference in US elections. I have an opinion, as I stated many times.

However this was not the point that I was debating with you. It is absolutely irrelevant if Russia interefered or did not interfere in US elections when we are talking about extraditing any Russian citizen to the US, or anywhere else for that matter. That is the point I was trying to make, that Russia does not extradite it's citizens to any foreign country and that point is made in the constitution.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 6549
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:15 pm

tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:

I am not even close to understanding the whole story behind MH17 so can't say much here.


Even though you have no problem with giving your opinion about the other incident. I don't think you know all the facts there, now do you?


Yeah, I don't have all the facts about the interference in US elections. I have an opinion, as I stated many times.

However this was not the point that I was debating with you. It is absolutely irrelevant if Russia interefered or did not interfere in US elections when we are talking about extraditing any Russian citizen to the US, or anywhere else for that matter. That is the point I was trying to make, that Russia does not extradite it's citizens to any foreign country and that point is made in the constitution.


You are stating a fact, now I am not interested in facts that I know. I am more interested in your opinion about these facts.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
WIederling
Posts: 6544
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:36 am

Dutchy wrote:
You are stating a fact, now I am not interested in facts that I know. I am more interested in your opinion about these facts.


As far as I can see your interests are completely self centered. I see no dialog. I see goading. bad taste.
Murphy is an optimist
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 1000
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:49 am

WIederling wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
You are stating a fact, now I am not interested in facts that I know. I am more interested in your opinion about these facts.


As far as I can see your interests are complete self centered. I see no dialog. I see goading. bad taste.


Not quite related to the quote, although about your stances throughout this thread, Wlederling-
Are your viewpoints common in Germany? I've always been happy to meet Germans in my travels and I never met anyone who has expressed such views. I've usually found Germans very similar to blue state Americans- I even stepped in at one point to prevent a couple from getting themselves detained in China (I had to explain that while it's okay to politely argue with officials in our countries, it will get you thrown in jail in China)
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 11537
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:13 am

Jouhou wrote:
[
I think I've mentioned we have to import natural gas and pay higher energy prices than the rest of the US?

Personally, I just can't wait till we start building giant wind turbines off our coast!



Energy from wind turbines is unreliable and costly, plus the birdlife don't like them. The giant wind turbines off the coast from where I live decimated the local sea eagle population, there are none lift, it's an endangered species, wind in Norway is a pointless idea, we get more than enough energy from hydro, these birds died for nothing.
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 1000
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:25 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
[
I think I've mentioned we have to import natural gas and pay higher energy prices than the rest of the US?

Personally, I just can't wait till we start building giant wind turbines off our coast!



Energy from wind turbines is unreliable and costly, plus the birdlife don't like them. The giant wind turbines off the coast from where I live decimated the local sea eagle population, there are none lift, it's an endangered species, wind in Norway is a pointless idea, we get more than enough energy from hydro, these birds died for nothing.


Yeah. We have seagulls. And we don't have enough hydropower.
 
salttee
Posts: 2470
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:55 am

Jouhou wrote:
Are your viewpoints common in Germany?

I can tell you they are not. He's a outlier wherever he goes. Here's the meaning of his chosen handle in its native language:
http://context.reverso.net/translation/ ... erling?d=0
  • 1
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 9
  • 12

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: aviationaware, Bostrom, Grizzly410, noviorbis77, sabenapilot and 8 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos