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Dutchy
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:00 am

WIederling wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
You are stating a fact, now I am not interested in facts that I know. I am more interested in your opinion about these facts.


As far as I can see your interests are completely self centered. I see no dialog. I see goading. bad taste.


So now you chose a personal attack above anything else. Good luck with that.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
WIederling
Posts: 6544
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:30 am

salttee wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Are your viewpoints common in Germany?

I can tell you they are not. He's a outlier wherever he goes. Here's the meaning of his chosen handle in its native language:
http://context.reverso.net/translation/ ... erling?d=0


... and wrong.
notice the difference in spelling "i" vs. "ie" :-) This is a bit more subtle than what seems accessible to you.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:45 am

WIederling wrote:
salttee wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Are your viewpoints common in Germany?

I can tell you they are not. He's a outlier wherever he goes. Here's the meaning of his chosen handle in its native language:
http://context.reverso.net/translation/ ... erling?d=0


... and wrong.
notice the difference in spelling "i" vs. "ie" :-) This is a bit more subtle than what seems accessible to you.


... So we're you agreeing? because you didn't fill me in on what enclave of german culture you were from.

Genuinely curious, I was originally an international affairs major.
 
tu204
Posts: 1663
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:36 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:45 pm

Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Even though you have no problem with giving your opinion about the other incident. I don't think you know all the facts there, now do you?


Yeah, I don't have all the facts about the interference in US elections. I have an opinion, as I stated many times.

However this was not the point that I was debating with you. It is absolutely irrelevant if Russia interefered or did not interfere in US elections when we are talking about extraditing any Russian citizen to the US, or anywhere else for that matter. That is the point I was trying to make, that Russia does not extradite it's citizens to any foreign country and that point is made in the constitution.


You are stating a fact, now I am not interested in facts that I know. I am more interested in your opinion about these facts.

I don't have enough facts on the matter to form an opinion.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
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notaxonrotax
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:11 pm

An exciting election coming up.....

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No Tax On Rotax
For anybody that happens to be wondering:"yes, owning your own aircraft is a 100% worth it!"
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:19 am

tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:

Yeah, I don't have all the facts about the interference in US elections. I have an opinion, as I stated many times.

However this was not the point that I was debating with you. It is absolutely irrelevant if Russia interefered or did not interfere in US elections when we are talking about extraditing any Russian citizen to the US, or anywhere else for that matter. That is the point I was trying to make, that Russia does not extradite it's citizens to any foreign country and that point is made in the constitution.


You are stating a fact, now I am not interested in facts that I know. I am more interested in your opinion about these facts.

I don't have enough facts on the matter to form an opinion.


Ok. Good to know there have been already convictions: Igor Girkin, a leader among pro-Russian separatists in Ukraine with a Moscow address, has been convicted to pay 400million USD in damages. It was a civil court case, but it is nevertheless a conviction.

https://nltimes.nl/2018/01/30/mh17-rela ... s-us-court

There are a number of other cases in preparation, including towards banks (financing terrorism), Russian state etc. "Interesting" to note, an American barrister whom is working on a court case has had his office raided, only thing left was a picture of Putin on his desk, the FBI found no fingerprints, nothing. Intimidation by the Russian government, who knows? Coincident, hardly likely.

This is besides the criminal court cases.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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N14AZ
Posts: 3255
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:54 pm

During the Cold War I was never afraid of the Russians. I found it ridiculous when Ronald Reagan called the USSR an „Evil Empire“. Today, I think the description fits: Crimea, giving you favorite rebels high tech weapons that bring down a B777 (don’t waste your time in trying to convince me of something else), Syria, trying to manipulate elections...

WIederling wrote:
salttee wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Are your viewpoints common in Germany?

I can tell you they are not. He's a outlier wherever he goes. Here's the meaning of his chosen handle in its native language:
http://context.reverso.net/translation/ ... erling?d=0


... and wrong.
notice the difference in spelling "i" vs. "ie" :-) This is a bit more subtle than what seems accessible to you.

Just out of curiosity, does WI in the beginning of your a-net. name refer to the city of Wiesbaden? That’s what I thought when I saw your name for the first time...
 
tu204
Posts: 1663
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:36 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:52 pm

Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

You are stating a fact, now I am not interested in facts that I know. I am more interested in your opinion about these facts.

I don't have enough facts on the matter to form an opinion.


Ok. Good to know there have been already convictions: Igor Girkin, a leader among pro-Russian separatists in Ukraine with a Moscow address, has been convicted to pay 400million USD in damages. It was a civil court case, but it is nevertheless a conviction.

https://nltimes.nl/2018/01/30/mh17-rela ... s-us-court

There are a number of other cases in preparation, including towards banks (financing terrorism), Russian state etc. "Interesting" to note, an American barrister whom is working on a court case has had his office raided, only thing left was a picture of Putin on his desk, the FBI found no fingerprints, nothing. Intimidation by the Russian government, who knows? Coincident, hardly likely.

This is besides the criminal court cases.


And why should I care about any decisions of any Netherlands court? You don't seem to recognize Russian courts, so please enjoy the return favour.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:47 am

tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:
I don't have enough facts on the matter to form an opinion.


Ok. Good to know there have been already convictions: Igor Girkin, a leader among pro-Russian separatists in Ukraine with a Moscow address, has been convicted to pay 400million USD in damages. It was a civil court case, but it is nevertheless a conviction.

https://nltimes.nl/2018/01/30/mh17-rela ... s-us-court

There are a number of other cases in preparation, including towards banks (financing terrorism), Russian state etc. "Interesting" to note, an American barrister whom is working on a court case has had his office raided, only thing left was a picture of Putin on his desk, the FBI found no fingerprints, nothing. Intimidation by the Russian government, who knows? Coincident, hardly likely.

This is besides the criminal court cases.


And why should I care about any decisions of any Netherlands court? You don't seem to recognize Russian courts, so please enjoy the return favour.


This was an American court. Besides that, Russian courts aren't independent, Dutch courts are. So that is the difference, especially in politically sensitive cases as we have seen over and over again in Russia.
I am sure that most Russians won't accept any decision which will convict any Russians or eastern Ukranians for this, no matter the evidence no matter what. So that is dogmatic, Russia is great and anything else is a lie. So why should I care about any Russian opinion based on a dogma/sect like behavior?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
anrec80
Posts: 1125
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:20 pm

jordanh wrote:
You admission is accepted. And yes, that many can have an impact; Trump won the election because of exactly 77,774 voters in 3 states - out of 139 million total. The disinformation campaign certainly can influence an election enough to "have an impact".


Not anything at this scale. And, of course, nobody even bothered to establish the most important thing - who was the customer of the firm that placed the ads? What if it was someone from the USA who supported Trump - then what? I understand that a true Democrat will still call it a "disinformation campaign", but nobody has ever cancelled the freedom of speech yet (hopefully). Plus, there were many instances of such "interference". Other countries, ethnic communities placing ads and promoting candidates, lack of control who votes in some states (e.g. illegal immigrants), and the likes. These things are there, but really can't make any impact.

If you do not want any of foreign interference, then you should get in touch with the government of that country and talk, so that they incorporate necessary items into their legislature and, if you have proof and can present it to their authorities (which is far from the case in this turmoil), present it. But instead - 1.5 year long mess, during which the country isn't being run.
 
anrec80
Posts: 1125
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:25 pm

Dutchy wrote:
This was an American court. Besides that, Russian courts aren't independent, Dutch courts are. So that is the difference, especially in politically sensitive cases as we have seen over and over again in Russia.
I am sure that most Russians won't accept any decision which will convict any Russians or eastern Ukranians for this, no matter the evidence no matter what. So that is dogmatic, Russia is great and anything else is a lie. So why should I care about any Russian opinion based on a dogma/sect like behavior?


That depends who considers whose courts "independent". You believe that your courts are independent, but Russians aren't. You sure have the right to have such beliefs, but then Russians also have a right to not believe into your court systems. E.g. they have right (and grounds) to doubt that as well. In any countries, judges are humans, and they certainly can fall for propaganda prevailing in many Western countries, and the decisions therefore can be biased.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:25 pm

anrec80 wrote:
jordanh wrote:
You admission is accepted. And yes, that many can have an impact; Trump won the election because of exactly 77,774 voters in 3 states - out of 139 million total. The disinformation campaign certainly can influence an election enough to "have an impact".


Not anything at this scale. And, of course, nobody even bothered to establish the most important thing - who was the customer of the firm that placed the ads? What if it was someone from the USA who supported Trump - then what? I understand that a true Democrat will still call it a "disinformation campaign", but nobody has ever cancelled the freedom of speech yet (hopefully). Plus, there were many instances of such "interference". Other countries, ethnic communities placing ads and promoting candidates, lack of control who votes in some states (e.g. illegal immigrants), and the likes. These things are there, but really can't make any impact.

If you do not want any of foreign interference, then you should get in touch with the government of that country and talk, so that they incorporate necessary items into their legislature and, if you have proof and can present it to their authorities (which is far from the case in this turmoil), present it. But instead - 1.5 year long mess, during which the country isn't being run.


Any Americans who worked with Russians to undermine our system are traitors. We know how Russia views their traitors, you should understand if we are a bit upset with ours.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:37 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
This was an American court. Besides that, Russian courts aren't independent, Dutch courts are. So that is the difference, especially in politically sensitive cases as we have seen over and over again in Russia.
I am sure that most Russians won't accept any decision which will convict any Russians or eastern Ukranians for this, no matter the evidence no matter what. So that is dogmatic, Russia is great and anything else is a lie. So why should I care about any Russian opinion based on a dogma/sect like behavior?


That depends who considers whose courts "independent". You believe that your courts are independent, but Russians aren't. You sure have the right to have such beliefs, but then Russians also have a right to not believe into your court systems. E.g. they have right (and grounds) to doubt that as well. In any countries, judges are humans, and they certainly can fall for propaganda prevailing in many Western countries, and the decisions therefore can be biased.


I see that you decided to implement another piece of propaganda strategy: everywhere it is just as bad as in Russia.

The Netherlands is ranked 5, Russia well.............
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Jus ... Index_2016

Dutch professional judges are perfectly capable of making up their own mind, they do it all the time.

Russian judges are pressured by the Putin regime. So nice try but you failed. Russia's justice system isn't in the same league as the Russian one, sorry.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
anrec80
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:41 pm

Jouhou wrote:
Any Americans who worked with Russians to undermine our system are traitors. We know how Russia views their traitors, you should understand if we are a bit upset with ours.


OK, you really should slow down here. As I said, nobody even reported what were these ads, who was the customer, what was the customer's intent. What do we have here in case you are saying? We have a legitimate American customer who hired a Russian firm to compose and deliver their statement to their target audience - right? And that's it. Sure, they may have supported Trump. Had they hired an American firm for the same thing - would they have been traitors then?

Or - are all Republican candidate supporters traitors? Or only those of them who place ads and promote their candidate? Now, you are alienating whole groups of your own citizens by labeling them "traitors" in this case. This is how you crack apart first your society, and then your country. Nobody ever stated that someone outside dreams of USA descending into a chaos of a civil stand-off, but this is the path you are entering.

Even if we assume for a moment Putin, Xi Jinping or Kim John Il dreams of that (I don't think any of them does actually, and I assure you I don't dream of that either) - they just should sit back and relax; you (and the likes of you who share such beliefs of "traitors") are doing excellent job for them. And you should fully appreciate and understand how treacherous and slippery this path is. And how unbelievably short.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:45 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Any Americans who worked with Russians to undermine our system are traitors. We know how Russia views their traitors, you should understand if we are a bit upset with ours.


OK, you really should slow down here. As I said, nobody even reported what were these ads, who was the customer, what was the customer's intent. What do we have here in case you are saying? We have a legitimate American customer who hired a Russian firm to compose and deliver their statement to their target audience - right? And that's it. Sure, they may have supported Trump. Had they hired an American firm for the same thing - would they have been traitors then?

Or - are all Republican candidate supporters traitors? Or only those of them who place ads and promote their candidate? Now, you are alienating whole groups of your own citizens by labeling them "traitors" in this case. This is how you crack apart first your society, and then your country. Nobody ever stated that someone outside dreams of USA descending into a chaos of a civil stand-off, but this is the path you are entering.

Even if we assume for a moment Putin, Xi Jinping or Kim John Il dreams of that (I don't think any of them does actually, and I assure you I don't dream of that either) - they just should sit back and relax; you (and the likes of you who share such beliefs of "traitors") are doing excellent job for them. And you should fully appreciate and understand how treacherous and slippery this path is. And how unbelievably short.


Russia did it with their troll factories. Doesn't matter how many times you will deny it, spin it or what else.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:49 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Any Americans who worked with Russians to undermine our system are traitors. We know how Russia views their traitors, you should understand if we are a bit upset with ours.


OK, you really should slow down here. As I said, nobody even reported what were these ads, who was the customer, what was the customer's intent. What do we have here in case you are saying? We have a legitimate American customer who hired a Russian firm to compose and deliver their statement to their target audience - right? And that's it. Sure, they may have supported Trump. Had they hired an American firm for the same thing - would they have been traitors then?

Or - are all Republican candidate supporters traitors? Or only those of them who place ads and promote their candidate? Now, you are alienating whole groups of your own citizens by labeling them "traitors" in this case. This is how you crack apart first your society, and then your country. Nobody ever stated that someone outside dreams of USA descending into a chaos of a civil stand-off, but this is the path you are entering.

Even if we assume for a moment Putin, Xi Jinping or Kim John Il dreams of that (I don't think any of them does actually, and I assure you I don't dream of that either) - they just should sit back and relax; you (and the likes of you who share such beliefs of "traitors") are doing excellent job for them. And you should fully appreciate and understand how treacherous and slippery this path is. And how unbelievably short.


That's a lot of words that don't address what I said. Any American who accepted Russian assistance to undermine our institutions is a traitor. Plain and simple.
 
MSPbrandon
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:28 am

Putin now tries to blame Tatars and Jews for US election meddling.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/vl ... 698a9e7274
Is he a anti-semite too?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:06 am

MSPbrandon wrote:
Putin now tries to blame Tatars and Jews for US election meddling.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/vl ... 698a9e7274
Is he a anti-semite too?


“Maybe they’re Ukrainians, Tatars, Jews, just with Russian citizenship. Even that needs to be checked,”

So Putin makes a difference between "real" Russians and others with just a Russian citizenship. That should be a concern for Russians themselves. They were Russians, own up to it.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
WIederling
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:03 am

MSPbrandon wrote:
Putin now tries to blame Tatars and Jews for US election meddling.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/vl ... 698a9e7274
Is he a anti-semite too?


We've seen some convicted felons holding posts in the Israeli government.
you think the Israeli judicial system is antisemitic?
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:12 am

WIederling wrote:
MSPbrandon wrote:
Putin now tries to blame Tatars and Jews for US election meddling.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/vl ... 698a9e7274
Is he a anti-semite too?


We've seen some convicted felons holding posts in the Israeli government.
you think the Israeli judicial system is antisemitic?


Are you for real? What a complete bullocks.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
MSPbrandon
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:53 pm

WIederling wrote:
MSPbrandon wrote:
Putin now tries to blame Tatars and Jews for US election meddling.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/vl ... 698a9e7274
Is he a anti-semite too?


We've seen some convicted felons holding posts in the Israeli government.
you think the Israeli judicial system is antisemitic?


Im just putting foward the question. He may not be antsemitic.
 
anrec80
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:32 am

Jouhou wrote:
Any Americans who worked with Russians to undermine our system are traitors. We know how Russia views their traitors, you should understand if we are a bit upset with ours.


So now it's not Russians, it's some "American traitors". The national witch hunt must be on? When are we igniting fires on Pennsylvania Ave?
 
anrec80
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:41 am

Dutchy wrote:
Russia did it with their troll factories. Doesn't matter how many times you will deny it, spin it or what else.


Listen, our American friend just below said that these were "some American traitors" who wanted to undermine US institutions, and they just used Russian firm services. That's it. Perhaps they should figure out things with their "traitors" first?
 
anrec80
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:15 am

And here's more:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre ... on-n855986

"House Republicans investigating foreign interference in the 2016 election say they have found no evidence that Russians colluded with any members of the Trump campaign and dispute a key finding from the intelligence community that Russia had developed a preference for the Republican nominee during the election. "

Perhaps traitors are not in white house, but rather elsewhere?
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:17 am

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Russia did it with their troll factories. Doesn't matter how many times you will deny it, spin it or what else.


Listen, our American friend just below said that these were "some American traitors" who wanted to undermine US institutions, and they just used Russian firm services. That's it. Perhaps they should figure out things with their "traitors" first?


You need to put "Russian firm services" in quotes. It's a government operation. If someone on this side of the ocean helped coordinate that they're in trouble. Russia can't put itself lower on our shit list, not that they care. In Putin's Russia, being monstrous is apparently the strategy to become a world power.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:19 am

anrec80 wrote:
And here's more:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre ... on-n855986

"House Republicans investigating foreign interference in the 2016 election say they have found no evidence that Russians colluded with any members of the Trump campaign and dispute a key finding from the intelligence community that Russia had developed a preference for the Republican nominee during the election. "

Perhaps traitors are not in white house, but rather elsewhere?


House republicans are riding the Russia train hard. I hope to God Putin hates all Americans equally and burns them too.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:06 am

Dutchy wrote:
MSPbrandon wrote:
Putin now tries to blame Tatars and Jews for US election meddling.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/vl ... 698a9e7274
Is he a anti-semite too?


“Maybe they’re Ukrainians, Tatars, Jews, just with Russian citizenship. Even that needs to be checked,”

So Putin makes a difference between "real" Russians and others with just a Russian citizenship. That should be a concern for Russians themselves. They were Russians, own up to it.


I guess giving Russian passports to Ukrainians was a fair deal to try and control that country, as long as they don't think they're really Russian !
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
anrec80
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:15 am

Jouhou wrote:
House republicans are riding the Russia train hard. I hope to God Putin hates all Americans equally and burns them too.


Ok, so it's House Republicans that are traitors then? Then why not look at how proud, free and democratic Ukrainian nation handled a similar problem? The solution is very simple really - just throw them in the garbage. Literally. Like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEba3bqykq8

Maybe just more Americans need to gather together and "maidan" them out?
 
anrec80
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:33 am

Jouhou wrote:
You need to put "Russian firm services" in quotes. It's a government operation. If someone on this side of the ocean helped coordinate that they're in trouble. Russia can't put itself lower on our shit list, not that they care. In Putin's Russia, being monstrous is apparently the strategy to become a world power.


Horrible horrible Putin and poor poor cute defenseless West. One one side of the Pond, he organized all the traitors together (like what - 50% of the country?) and is shaking institutions. On the other - stuffed Parliaments with all sorts of populists, just done bringing one his old buddies back to power. Poor Ukrainian Nazis can't fulfill their dream of putting all the population of Eastern Ukraine through "filtration camps" to solve exactly your problem - filter out the traitors. Now he is bored out of his mind and decided to play some games of his youth in Britain.

As it turns out now, earlier he almost cracked the EU apart and arranged Brexit, stuffed Europe with refugees. What next revelation will be? He personally likes visiting Cologne during New Years Nights, and already raped like 2000 young European women, while evading accountability with refugee paperwork?
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:37 am

anrec80 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
House republicans are riding the Russia train hard. I hope to God Putin hates all Americans equally and burns them too.


Ok, so it's House Republicans that are traitors then? Then why not look at how proud, free and democratic Ukrainian nation handled a similar problem? The solution is very simple really - just throw them in the garbage. Literally. Like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEba3bqykq8

Maybe just more Americans need to gather together and "maidan" them out?


Maybe we could just vote them out if russia wasn't actively campaigning for them. Mind you Devin Nunes is the chair of the house Intel committee, the man has billboards in his district mocking his dedication to serving Russian interests.

Image
 
anrec80
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:55 am

Jouhou wrote:
Maybe we could just vote them out if russia wasn't actively campaigning for them. Mind you Devin Nunes is the chair of the house Intel committee, the man has billboards in his district mocking his dedication to serving Russian interests.


Voting out would be ideal of course, but what if you aren't able to vote them out and they still get re-elected? Then what?

And - in order for your Democrats to successfully vote them out, they really need a party refresh. Same leadership that failed 2016 election miserably was in lead positions since early 90s - Clintons, Joe Biden, John Kerry, only some people they brought in. Democrats need to have a great retirement party for all of those folks who are now 70, and move to the front new faces - a new generation of leaders. Who isn't involved with any little deeds of Clinton Foundation ideally.

But what's going on instead? Do we see any of those new faces? No. Instead, old Hillary is still around, and leads the campaign of searches for those at fault for her disaster.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:01 am

anrec80 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Maybe we could just vote them out if russia wasn't actively campaigning for them. Mind you Devin Nunes is the chair of the house Intel committee, the man has billboards in his district mocking his dedication to serving Russian interests.


Voting out would be ideal of course, but what if you aren't able to vote them out and they still get re-elected? Then what?

And - in order for your Democrats to successfully vote them out, they really need a party refresh. Same leadership that failed 2016 election miserably was in lead positions since early 90s - Clintons, Joe Biden, John Kerry, only some people they brought in. Democrats need to have a great retirement party for all of those folks who are now 70, and move to the front new faces - a new generation of leaders. Who isn't involved with any little deeds of Clinton Foundation ideally.

But what's going on instead? Do we see any of those new faces? No. Instead, old Hillary is still around, and leads the campaign of searches for those at fault for her disaster.

Image

Personally I'm glad Russians don't know the "new faces"
 
anrec80
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:43 am

Jouhou wrote:

Image

Personally I'm glad Russians don't know the "new faces"


Russians knowing or not knowing them is secondary. Americans, including Democrats, don’t know them either, and this is the issue.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:47 am

anrec80 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:

Image

Personally I'm glad Russians don't know the "new faces"


Russians knowing or not knowing them is secondary. Americans, including Democrats, don’t know them either, and this is the issue.


Lol ok we've only seen one states primaries so far.
 
Scorpius
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:01 pm

notaxonrotax wrote:
An exciting election coming up.....

Image

No Tax On Rotax


Typical Western propaganda lies.
I will be an observer in the upcoming elections in Russia, as I have been doing for almost five years. In all that time I never saw no violations during the work of polling stations, which I was. Moreover to us on the site came observers from the OSCE, and also did not find any violations.
 
Scorpius
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:11 pm

Dutchy wrote:
MSPbrandon wrote:
Putin now tries to blame Tatars and Jews for US election meddling.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/vl ... 698a9e7274
Is he a anti-semite too?


“Maybe they’re Ukrainians, Tatars, Jews, just with Russian citizenship. Even that needs to be checked,”

So Putin makes a difference between "real" Russians and others with just a Russian citizenship. That should be a concern for Russians themselves. They were Russians, own up to it.


Lol what? And which of Russia's 192 nationalities are "real Russians"?
 
petertenthije
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:11 pm

Scorpius wrote:
Moreover to us on the site came observers from the OSCE, and also did not find any violations.
Since you accept the OSCE as a valid source: here are a few of their remarks regarding the 2016 parliamentary election. I have based it on the English version of the preliminary report, since it is only 16 pages whereas the definitive version is TLDR. ;) A Russian language version can be found as well at the launch page.

Launch page for the OSCE findings:
https://www.osce.org/odihr/elections/russia/252136

The specific report:
https://www.osce.org/odihr/elections/ru ... nload=true


page 1 wrote:
Local authorities did not always treat the contestants equally, and instances of misuse of administrative resources were noted. The election day generally proceeded in an orderly manner, but numerous procedural irregularities were noted during counting
...
The legal framework remains overly complex and micro-regulates the electoral process, including through unnecessary restrictions on candidate registration, formation of party blocks, campaigning, media and citizen observation.
...
A number of lower-level commissions lacked impartiality and independence, and their performance was criticized
...
, the inclusiveness of the candidate registration process was diminished by legal limitations on the right to stand and by excessive registration requirements, particularly for independent candidates, that are contrary to international obligations and standards.


page 2 wrote:
There were also attempts by local state structures to influence voter choice and to pressure them into voting for the governing party. The CEC publicly highlighted such violations reported from nearly half of the federal subjects ("voting disctricts", see page 3).
...
OSCE/ODIHR EOM media monitoring results show that media failed to grant contestants with equitable coverage, with the ruling party receiving more editorial coverage than other contestants. The vast majority of editorial coverage on national channels – 63 to 91 per cent – was dedicated to government officials


And that's just the first two pages.

Admittedly, I did not read the entire report in detail. I read the first two pages and skimmed through the rest. My impression is that the voting itself went mostly equitable, with a few local commisioners overstepping their bounds. The count itself was also fair, and both the OSCE (EU) and CEC (Russia) were open in reporting errors. That having been said, the run-up to the election was not fair. There was no evenly divided (public access) media attention, there where excessive road blocks against forming new parties as well as against forming new coalitions.

One mayor issue I would highlight is that the CEC highlighted violations reported by nearly half the federal subjects ("voting disctricts"). This could of course be anything from subjets with a single complaint to subjects with large numbers of complaints, and from subjects with trivial complaints to subjects with mayor fraud. The (preliminary) report does not delve into this. Nonetheless, that's significantly more then commonly found in the "traditional democracies" (for lack of a better word).
Attamottamotta!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:54 pm

Scorpius wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
MSPbrandon wrote:
Putin now tries to blame Tatars and Jews for US election meddling.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/vl ... 698a9e7274
Is he a anti-semite too?


“Maybe they’re Ukrainians, Tatars, Jews, just with Russian citizenship. Even that needs to be checked,”

So Putin makes a difference between "real" Russians and others with just a Russian citizenship. That should be a concern for Russians themselves. They were Russians, own up to it.


Lol what? And which of Russia's 192 nationalities are "real Russians"?


You should ask Putin, he makes the distinction, not me. But glad to see you distance yourself from Putin.....
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:56 pm

Scorpius wrote:
I will be an observer in the upcoming elections in Russia, as I have been doing for almost five years. In all that time I never saw no violations during the work of polling stations, which I was.


Oh boy, then we know that the elections will be fair and square. Scorpius will keep watch for us..........
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Scorpius
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:29 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Oh boy, then we know that the elections will be fair and square. Scorpius will keep watch for us..........

I am doing my civic duty to ensure that the elections are held without disruption. Do you have something against that?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:30 pm

Scorpius wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Oh boy, then we know that the elections will be fair and square. Scorpius will keep watch for us..........

I am doing my civic duty to ensure that the elections are held without disruption. Do you have something against that?


No, be my guest. Disruption? Interesting choice of words. I am sure that Putin don't want any disruption.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
anrec80
Posts: 1125
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:48 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Scorpius wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Oh boy, then we know that the elections will be fair and square. Scorpius will keep watch for us..........

I am doing my civic duty to ensure that the elections are held without disruption. Do you have something against that?


No, be my guest. Disruption? Interesting choice of words. I am sure that Putin don't want any disruption.


I suppose it’s a good thing Scorpius is montiroing elections in Russia. But I’d be worried - what if he also joins OSCE program, or gets sent to Netherlands to monitor your elections as a volunteer? Russia and European countries have such agreements. So - if your favorite candidate Wilders wins you know who gets the credit.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:12 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Scorpius wrote:
I am doing my civic duty to ensure that the elections are held without disruption. Do you have something against that?


No, be my guest. Disruption? Interesting choice of words. I am sure that Putin don't want any disruption.


I suppose it’s a good thing Scorpius is montiroing elections in Russia. But I’d be worried - what if he also joins OSCE program, or gets sent to Netherlands to monitor your elections as a volunteer? Russia and European countries have such agreements. So - if your favorite candidate Wilders wins you know who gets the credit.


Oh yes, he is welcome to observe our elections, we have one in 2 weeks, local elections.

I guess you are trolling again with your Wilders remark, funny though, especially since he got a lot of comments because he went to.................Russia.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
WIederling
Posts: 6544
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:14 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Maybe just more Americans need to gather together and "maidan" them out?


you have to pay the snipers first.
Murphy is an optimist
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:43 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Scorpius wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Oh boy, then we know that the elections will be fair and square. Scorpius will keep watch for us..........

I am doing my civic duty to ensure that the elections are held without disruption. Do you have something against that?


No, be my guest. Disruption?


Releasing results before the poll stations are officially closed would be such... quite inconvenient "disruption".
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:49 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Scorpius wrote:
I am doing my civic duty to ensure that the elections are held without disruption. Do you have something against that?


No, be my guest. Disruption?


Releasing results before the poll stations are officially closed would be such... quite inconvenient "disruption".


I could give you the result right now if you want: Putin 81,3%. It doesn't matter anyway, the elections are unfair as it stands now, not a fair opportunity for other "candidates", so not a fair election (period).
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
anrec80
Posts: 1125
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:31 am

WIederling wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
Maybe just more Americans need to gather together and "maidan" them out?


you have to pay the snipers first.


Snipers will be there once their time comes. On grander scheme of things they are not that expensive. And in the USA they have a lot of ex-servicemen, private military companies, etc. Let alone FBI, CIA and the likes.
 
anrec80
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Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:37 am

Dutchy wrote:

Oh yes, he is welcome to observe our elections, we have one in 2 weeks, local elections.

I guess you are trolling again with your Wilders remark, funny though, especially since he got a lot of comments because he went to.................Russia.


Yep he's been there a few times - why not? Who knows, once sanctions fall apart he may be able to get Dutch companies some priority seats when betting for contracts and market share.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:51 am

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Oh yes, he is welcome to observe our elections, we have one in 2 weeks, local elections.

I guess you are trolling again with your Wilders remark, funny though, especially since he got a lot of comments because he went to.................Russia.


Yep he's been there a few times - why not? Who knows, once sanctions fall apart he may be able to get Dutch companies some priority seats when betting for contracts and market share.


haha, no he will not, on so many levels. He is anti-EU, anti-Islam so Putin loves him.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Russia needs to stop ruining everything.

Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:21 am

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