http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/trump-s ... -1.4557060

Isn't this expected to affect Boeing and make Airbus more competitive in the long run?

Placing a tariff on the import of steel and aluminum will just encourage the use of our own limited supplies of our natural resources. Later we can be held hostage by foreign counties the we would need to begin importing metal due to the low supply of our own. Minnesota supplied the war effort in WWII to win the war. Now all that is left is low grade iron ore which must be turned into taconite for the steel mills. Oil was finally produced in Pennsylvania and later could have been obtain offshore especially in the Middle East. We should have bought as much oil offshore when it was still cheap and not have to worry about the inaccessibility of it and still have an adequate supply of it within the United States.

Hagic wrote:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/trump-steel-aluminum-1.4557060

Isn't this expected to affect Boeing and make Airbus more competitive in the long run?

Don't think it will affect Boeing nor Airbus. First aluminum is slowly being replaced by composite materials. And secondly, I dont think the type of high grade and exotic aerospace aluminum alloys being used today and tomorrow is sourced in any material (pun intended . . . ) quantities from China (Russia perhaps).

PW100 wrote:

Hagic wrote:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/trump-steel-aluminum-1.4557060
Isn't this expected to affect Boeing and make Airbus more competitive in the long run?

Don't think it will affect Boeing nor Airbus. I dont think the type of high grade and exotic aerospace aluminum alloys being used today and tomorrow is sourced in any material (pun intended . . . ) quantities from China (Russia perhaps).

FWIW, I believe that BBD buys its Al and Al-Li from Alcoa. I don't believe China sells any aviation grade Aluminium around here or Europe.

Now, this tax will affect Canada big time. (Quebec, with its abundant and cheap hydro, produces 90% of Canada's Aluminum).

So, after Softwood Lumber duties, the CSeries BS (now resolved), and now aluminium, Quebec trade with US is not getting smoother. We don't get to choose our neighbours I guess. Luckily we're about to get free trade with Europe and part of the Pacific.

"In addition to paying more for their vehicles, American consumers and workers can also expect to bear the brunt of the retaliatory tariffs other countries will almost certainly place on goods manufactured and exported from the United States,"

My thoughts exactly.

ExMilitaryEng wrote:

So, after Softwood Lumber duties, the CSeries BS (now resolved), and now aluminium, Quebec trade with US is not getting smoother.

It would be fun to watch the scramble if Hydro-Quebec decides ... OK, Vermont and New York, we're not sending electricity south any more ... see ya.

longhauler wrote:

It would be fun to watch the scramble if Hydro-Quebec decides ... OK, Vermont and New York, we're not sending electricity south any more ... see ya.

On a side not (after the recent proposal/sale to Massachusetts) Hydro-Quebec will probably not respond to any future wholesale long-term electricity RFP anymore. They'll make more profit by just selling it within Quebec instead.

The recent blockchain mining phenomena is a big part of that change of strategy.

This is a tariff that doesn't benefit U.S.
U.S. as an advanced industrial nation adds value by converting raw material like metal in to product.
Their Glorious Leader wants to make their raw material more expensive. you could say iron ore and bauxite are the raw material but they're not really, it is the steel and aluminium that is the raw material because a roll of steel or aluminium unprocessed are only useful as paperweights until they get turned in to something.
The production of steel and aluminium has become so automated that the glorious leader isn't even going to create the environment where jobs are created in that industry and will likely lead to a net reduction in employment in the U.S. (even before counter tariffs are considered).
...still let's make America great again!!!

I don't think our president has a clue on how the aluminum business work. He relies on advisors and experts whose allegiance is to wall street or some foreign powers. There are hardly any smelters left in the US. Most of the raw material (billets) is imported. the processing of aluminum into coils, plates or extrusions is done by a handful of mills and extruders that are mostly foreign owned (Chinese and European and Australian). High tariffs have already been in place for few years and that is thanks to Obama. that resulted in doubling of the conversion costs putting a lot of small companies relying on extrusions for their products out of business.

The new tariffs will result in even higher aluminum prices due to a lack of competition and will either kill whatever aluminum business is left in this country, or force them to move their operations overseas.

Boeing will get hurt and I think they will certainly start considering moving some of their operations overseas. this will not affect Airbus at all as they do not have any manufacturing operations here in the US. their aluminum needs are met by European or Asian suppliers. the tariffs will hurt US exports greatly.

dz09 wrote:

I don't think our president has a clue on how the aluminum business work. He relies on advisors and experts whose allegiance is to wall street or some foreign powers. There are hardly any smelters left in the US. Most of the raw material (billets) is imported. the processing of aluminum into coils, plates or extrusions is done by a handful of mills and extruders that are mostly foreign owned (Chinese and European and Australian). High tariffs have already been in place for few years and that is thanks to Obama. that resulted in doubling of the conversion costs putting a lot of small companies relying on extrusions for their products out of business.

The new tariffs will result in even higher aluminum prices due to a lack of competition and will either kill whatever aluminum business is left in this country, or force them to move their operations overseas.

Boeing will get hurt and I think they will certainly start considering moving some of their operations overseas. this will not affect Airbus at all as they do not have any manufacturing operations here in the US. their aluminum needs are met by European or Asian suppliers. the tariffs will hurt US exports greatly.

So true, the administration should ask a net posters seeing there are so many experts on this board.

dmg626 wrote:

dz09 wrote:

I don't think our president has a clue on how the aluminum business work. He relies on advisors and experts whose allegiance is to wall street or some foreign powers. There are hardly any smelters left in the US. Most of the raw material (billets) is imported. the processing of aluminum into coils, plates or extrusions is done by a handful of mills and extruders that are mostly foreign owned (Chinese and European and Australian). High tariffs have already been in place for few years and that is thanks to Obama. that resulted in doubling of the conversion costs putting a lot of small companies relying on extrusions for their products out of business.

The new tariffs will result in even higher aluminum prices due to a lack of competition and will either kill whatever aluminum business is left in this country, or force them to move their operations overseas.

Boeing will get hurt and I think they will certainly start considering moving some of their operations overseas. this will not affect Airbus at all as they do not have any manufacturing operations here in the US. their aluminum needs are met by European or Asian suppliers. the tariffs will hurt US exports greatly.

So true, the administration should ask a net posters seeing there are so many experts on this board.

i am in the aluminum business!

dz09 wrote:

I don't think our president has a clue on how the aluminum business work. He relies on advisors and experts whose allegiance is to wall street or some foreign powers. There are hardly any smelters left in the US. Most of the raw material (billets) is imported. the processing of aluminum into coils, plates or extrusions is done by a handful of mills and extruders that are mostly foreign owned (Chinese and European and Australian). High tariffs have already been in place for few years and that is thanks to Obama. that resulted in doubling of the conversion costs putting a lot of small companies relying on extrusions for their products out of business.

The new tariffs will result in even higher aluminum prices due to a lack of competition and will either kill whatever aluminum business is left in this country, or force them to move their operations overseas.

Boeing will get hurt and I think they will certainly start considering moving some of their operations overseas. this will not affect Airbus at all as they do not have any manufacturing operations here in the US. their aluminum needs are met by European or Asian suppliers. the tariffs will hurt US exports greatly.

I googled "aluminum tariffs under Obama" and nearly every hit that came back was this current tariff spike under tRump. There were articles about Obama raising tariffs on solar panels from China and tires from China and steel from China. I think one reason there are fewer aluminum plants in the United States is environmental laws. I know of two plants that closed because of tough regulations. Both were located next to the Columbia River. One of those plants now houses a Google server farm.

I googled "aluminum tariffs under Obama" and nearly every hit that came back was this current tariff spike under tRump. There were articles about Obama raising tariffs on solar panels from China and tires from China and steel from China. I think one reason there are fewer aluminum plants in the United States is environmental laws. I know of two plants that closed because of tough regulations. Both were located next to the Columbia River. One of those plants now houses a Google server farm.[/quote]

check the rates in https://hts.usitc.gov/?query=aluminum%20extrusions. those tariffs have been in place for a few years now.

dz09 wrote:

I googled "aluminum tariffs under Obama" and nearly every hit that came back was this current tariff spike under tRump. There were articles about Obama raising tariffs on solar panels from China and tires from China and steel from China. I think one reason there are fewer aluminum plants in the United States is environmental laws. I know of two plants that closed because of tough regulations. Both were located next to the Columbia River. One of those plants now houses a Google server farm.

check the rates in https://hts.usitc.gov/?query=aluminum%20extrusions. those tariffs have been in place for a few years now.[/quote]

Could it be our access to domestic ore? Is it readily available to mine in the USA?

The title is wrong, it should be: Trump starts a trade war and thus will weaken the world's economy.

Let's look on the bright side, Trump is working hard to dismantle the belief he and his party are good for business.


Also extracting aluminum from ore is EXTREMELY energy intensive. These facilities sometimes need their own power plants...

Dutchy wrote:

The title is wrong, it should be: Trump starts a trade war and thus will weaken the world's economy.

Spare us your anti Trump nonsense.

How about my country trying to help bring back JOBS for PEOPLE?

AirFiero wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

The title is wrong, it should be: Trump starts a trade war and thus will weaken the world's economy.

Spare us your anti Trump nonsense.

How about my country trying to help bring back JOBS for PEOPLE?

And yet, back here in the USA we are now fretting about increased construction costs due to expensive steel, and future projects likely now getting shelved. Nothing like laid off construction workers and metal tradesmen. P.S. construction jobs can't be sent overseas

AirFiero wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

The title is wrong, it should be: Trump starts a trade war and thus will weaken the world's economy.

Spare us your anti Trump nonsense.

How about my country trying to help bring back JOBS for PEOPLE?

What anti-Trump? What nonsense? Do you think the rest of the world will say: oh ok, no problem, of course, you can benefit your own industry against world trade rules, a bit naive don't you think? This will have consequences.

If you want jobs? Invest in infrastructure and make your country a bit more equal.

Jouhou wrote:

AirFiero wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

The title is wrong, it should be: Trump starts a trade war and thus will weaken the world's economy.

Spare us your anti Trump nonsense.

How about my country trying to help bring back JOBS for PEOPLE?

And yet, back here in the USA we are now fretting about increased construction costs due to expensive steel, and future projects likely now getting shelved. Nothing like laid off construction workers and metal tradesmen. P.S. construction jobs can't be sent overseas

Everything from cans to cars and buildings. Inflation will be the result.

Dutchy wrote:

AirFiero wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

The title is wrong, it should be: Trump starts a trade war and thus will weaken the world's economy.

Spare us your anti Trump nonsense.

How about my country trying to help bring back JOBS for PEOPLE?

What anti-Trump? What nonsense? Do you think the rest of the world will say: oh ok, no problem, of course, you can benefit your own industry against world trade rules, a bit naive don't you think? This will have consequences.

If you want jobs? Invest in infrastructure and make your country a bit more equal.

I apologize for my fellow citizens knowing nothing about how the economy works.

And it slightly benefits one industry to the massive detriment of many more. It's a stupid move, just like throwing tariffs on Canadian lumber.

The EU and China will respond accordingly and everyone loses.

Dutchy wrote:

The title is wrong, it should be: Trump starts a trade war and thus will weaken the world's economy.

The best part is that he unmasks decades of GOP lies.

High taxes kill the economy
Renewable, expensive energy kill the economy
Social systems kill the economy
Universal health care kills the economy
Unions kill the economy
Strict environment standards kill the economy


And yet countries having all of the above can somehow make steel and aluminium cheaper than US companies not burdened by all that.

Best regards
Thomas

We're entering levels of idiocy and ludicrousness rarely seen outside of countries like Venezuela or Zimbabwe...

This is ultimately what the danger of populism is. An uneducated loud mouth making decisions against all common sense.

What amuses me in this case is that this flies right in the face of the GOP agenda.
These guys rallied behind Trump because they thought they could use him like the gullible idiot that he is to their own benefit, and now he broke the leash and is running wild, applying his highly advanced destructive abilities to everything he gets close to.

It was somewhat funny when his businesses went bust time and again, or when he manages to somehow keep the White House in a perpetual state of dysfunctional chaos... we'll laugh less when he does the same to America, and maybe the rest of the World.

2002 Bush tariff on steel:
The Bush 2002 steel tariff was a political issue in the United States regarding a tariff that President George W. Bush placed on imported steel on March 5, 2002 (took effect March 20). The tariffs were lifted by Bush on December 4, 2003. Research shows that the tariffs adversely affected US GDP and employment.[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Unit ... eel_tariff

WIederling wrote:

Research shows that the tariffs adversely affected US GDP and employment.[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Unit ... eel_tariff

So no surprise there, again he is doing what Putin wants.

Best regards
Thomas

The bad news here is the NRA met with Trump this morning and now he changed his mind about gun control. The good news is that 1MM Republican economists are also trying to get an appointment, so if one of them makes it past KushVanka he'll probably change his mind about these tariffs.

Having a clueless president is really not good but I suppose if his mind is like so much putty there's always a shot at positive course-correction, assuming the supplicant has a clue of course.

Jouhou wrote:

P.S. construction jobs can't be sent overseas

The construction trade has already been given away to illegals. It will take a decade or more to rebuild it with legal labor.

tommy1808 wrote:

High taxes kill the economy
Renewable, expensive energy kill the economy
Social systems kill the economy
Universal health care kills the economy
Unions kill the economy
Strict environment standards kill the economy


And yet countries having all of the above can somehow make steel and aluminium cheaper than US companies not burdened by all that.

Best regards
Thomas

What countries are those? I'm not necessarily defending these tariffs but, like the solar tariff about which you kneejerked and were ultimately shown to be a uninformed, I'd bet there is more to this story than what you are reading.

I've been meaning to read "The Lexus and the Olive Tree" by Thomas Friedman for some time now.

It certainly seems relevant to present day politics.

I did a quick search, one our usual European critics hoped nobody would bother but once again, it is probably only wrong when the Trump does it....

EU imposes import duties of up to 73.7% on cheap Chinese steel
Fri 7 Oct 2016 13.00 EDT Last modified on Tue 28 Nov 2017 08.31 EST


The European Union has slapped tariffs of up to 73.7% on Chinese steel after manufacturers were forced to cut jobs due falling prices and demand for the material amid an influx of cheap imports from Asia.

Thousand of job have already been lost in the steel industry in Britain in the last year with thousands more at risk as the sector remains under pressure. Industry leaders have partly blamed the squeeze on the sector on China’s dumping of cheap steel in Europe as it struggles to find buyers for its products domestically.

The EU has agreed to impose import duties of between 13.2% and 22.6% on Chinese hot-rolled steel, which is used in pipelines and gas containers, and 65.1% and 73.7% on heavy plates, which are used in civil engineering projects. https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... albot-tata

But wait, reading the third hit on the same search, we get this....

APRIL 6, 2017 / 1:39 AM
EU raises import duties on Chinese steel, angering Beijing
Philip Blenkinsop

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The European Commission said on Thursday it had set‘anti-dumping’ duties on imports of hot-rolled flat steel products from China at a higher rate than those already in place, angering Beijing.

The Commission, acting on behalf of the 28 EU countries, set final duties of between 18.1 and 35.9 percent for five years for producers including Bengang Steel Plates Co, Handan Iron & Steel Co [TANGCB.UL] and Hesteel Co. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-s ... SKBN1780VU

I think some people here need to be more careful about throwing stones from glass houses.

Route66 wrote:

I think some people here need to be more careful about throwing stones from glass houses.

It is about stones from inside glass houses.
The EU tariff is selective. ( China )
The US tariff appears not. ( indiscriminate, ..)

There is a technical and a moral difference.
Some routes don't lead anywhere.

Route66 wrote:

I think some people here need to be more careful about throwing stones from glass houses.

I see you still don't get the difference between tariffs targeting an abuser (China) and a blanket tariff against any other producers (for example Germany), regardless of cost structure etc. Or to use the words of your source, anti-dumping tariff vs. flat out protectionism....

Removing incentives for domestic producers to increase productivity will just make those industries even less competitive in the global market and drive up consumer prices in the US.
That is called inflation and the Fed will increase interest rates even faster.

The kremlin provided Trump with a good playbook to wreck the economy and do sustained damage in the little time he has.

Best regards
Thomas

Reuters U.S. News
✔ @ReutersUS

EXCLUSIVE: EU considering setting duties on about $3.5 billion of U.S. imports if Trump goes ahead with global import tariff plan - Sources

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1GE2FO

Route66 wrote:

Jouhou wrote:

P.S. construction jobs can't be sent overseas

The construction trade has already been given away to illegals.

Source, please.

We are told that the USA runs a trade imbalance with most if not all industrial nations because their product quality is low, so if you are not buying USA products now, how would putting a retaliatory tariff on those goods be productive to you, other than to make the imbalance even larger which will draw more attention.

The republicans wanted to lower the trade imbalance by increasing oil exports, how is that working out?
It will also be interesting to see the tariffs imposed on USA parts that are used in Airbus products that are then turned into complete aircraft and sold back to the USA.

I heard on the radio that the EU could slap taxes on steel and aluminum, ironically, since some grades are imported from the US to the EU. Other taxes could be on oranges and whisky, among others.

Aside from that, how much of the trade imbalance is due to the fact that products we buy that are of US origin are not built in the US ? Say iPhones ? Considering their ridiculous prices it's a travesty they're not made in the US (or EU for those markets).

seb146 wrote:

Route66 wrote:

Jouhou wrote:

P.S. construction jobs can't be sent overseas

The construction trade has already been given away to illegals.

Source, please.

Have you ever done major commercial or residential work? Roofing, masonry, landscaping and framing in particular. Undocumented or non-legitimate document having workers do a lot of the work. At least in my experience in various locations.

I put a roof on a location a few years ago and the only citizens were the owner of the business. He said Americans simply don't stick around long enough.

Aesma wrote:

I heard on the radio that the EU could slap taxes on steel and aluminum, ironically, since some grades are imported from the US to the EU. Other taxes could be on oranges and whisky, among others.

Aside from that, how much of the trade imbalance is due to the fact that products we buy that are of US origin are not built in the US ? Say iPhones ? Considering their ridiculous prices it's a travesty they're not made in the US (or EU for those markets).

Looks like Harley Davidson motorcycles might be targeted since HD headquarters are located in Wisconsin where Paul Ryan is from

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/27/eu-chin ... riffs.html

tommy1808 wrote:

Route66 wrote:

I think some people here need to be more careful about throwing stones from glass houses.

I see you still don't get the difference between tariffs targeting an abuser (China) and a blanket tariff against any other producers (for example Germany), regardless of cost structure etc. Or to use the words of your source, anti-dumping tariff vs. flat out protectionism....

Removing incentives for domestic producers to increase productivity will just make those industries even less competitive in the global market and drive up consumer prices in the US.
That is called inflation and the Fed will increase interest rates even faster.

The kremlin provided Trump with a good playbook to wreck the economy and do sustained damage in the little time he has.

Best regards
Thomas

Haha, I knew it, Europes protectionist policies are always "good", US - "BAD". But there you go again. You have no idea what trump is going to do because details have not been worked out. But, you do know it just has to be WRONG. And you are the expert on the subject after 10 minutes on the internet.

A more intelligent analysis might at least mention, if not conclude, that this could be aimed squarely at Mexico and Canada and the ongoing NAFTA talks.... https://www.trade.gov/steel/countries/p ... rts-us.pdf

par13del wrote:

We are told that the USA runs a trade imbalance with most if not all industrial nations because their product quality is low,

Who said that? US steel is of poor quality? Sources?

par13del wrote:

The republicans wanted to lower the trade imbalance by increasing oil exports, how is that working out?

Crude oil and petroleum product exports reach record levels in the first half of 2017 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=33372

par13del wrote:

It will also be interesting to see the tariffs imposed on USA parts that are used in Airbus products that are then turned into complete aircraft and sold back to the USA.

I don't think you thought that one through very well.

Aesma wrote:

I heard on the radio that the EU could slap taxes on steel and aluminum, ironically, since some grades are imported from the US to the EU. Other taxes could be on oranges and whisky, among others.

Aside from that, how much of the trade imbalance is due to the fact that products we buy that are of US origin are not built in the US ? Say iPhones ? Considering their ridiculous prices it's a travesty they're not made in the US (or EU for those markets).

Foreign made goods are not considered US exports under US law.

seb146 wrote:

Route66 wrote:

The construction trade has already been given away to illegals.

Source, please.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/02/25/ ... 3777840295
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-b ... story.html
http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-c ... ion-trump/

Route66 wrote:

seb146 wrote:

Route66 wrote:

The construction trade has already been given away to illegals.

Source, please.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/02/25/ ... 3777840295
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-b ... story.html
http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-c ... ion-trump/

You do understand that you stated the construction trade has been "given away" to illegals. Iplying they have taken it over, right? Is 12% taking over?

CCGPV wrote:

Have you ever done major commercial or residential work? Roofing, masonry, landscaping and framing in particular. Undocumented or non-legitimate document having workers do a lot of the work. At least in my experience in various locations.

I put a roof on a location a few years ago and the only citizens were the owner of the business. He said Americans simply don't stick around long enough.

Well that's proof if I've ever heard proof before!

Or you could look at the research that has been done on it:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/pew-7 ... le/2617560

And this is from the Washington Examiner which is the "conservative" DC paper....

Tugg

To those who want real information instead of believing the bulls###...

Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross Discusses Steel Tariffs: “People Are Exaggerating Considerably”…
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/20 ... ssion=true

Like the guy above said, ok for the EU but not the US??
EU Imposes Anti-Dumping Duties on Chinese Steel
https://www.usnews.com/news/business/ar ... nese-steel

...and Canada

From this article...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... ce=twitter

“We will always be there to defend workers and industry. We showed it on softwood lumber and showed it with the Boeing case,” Trade Minister Francois-Philippe Champagne told reporters in Ottawa.

...soooo, it’s ok for Canada to protect Canadian jobs and companies, but NOT ok for Americans??

Wow, nice website you have there. Replace "Wall Street" by "Jews" and it's a bit clearer.

www.theconservativetreehouse.com? WTF...even the regular KKK hordes on the Fox News forums are stumped today. Most common brainfart today is "I cain't find a link to Obummer or Hillary, anyone got somethin I can use, I darn near shit m'britches thinkin on it so hard."

AirFiero wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

The title is wrong, it should be: Trump starts a trade war and thus will weaken the world's economy.

Spare us your anti Trump nonsense.

How about my country trying to help bring back JOBS for PEOPLE?

Jingoistic nonsense at best.

This is basically a subsidy to inefficient industries with taxpayers handing money directly to inefficient/more expensive US companies instead of using the government as a middleman.

Jobs? More like income redistribution, as your socialist friends would call it.

ElPistolero wrote:

Jingoistic nonsense at best.

This is basically a subsidy to inefficient industries with taxpayers handing money directly to inefficient/more expensive US companies instead of using the government as a middleman.

Jobs? More like income redistribution, as your socialist friends would call it.

Inefficient is an inaccurate word to use. The reality is that the domestic industry could be more efficient. That's actually a likely scenario with available US technology and its skilled labor force. But they have no chance of competing evenly when up against cheap labor and a regime that doesn't care about even playing fields.

Tugger wrote:

Route66 wrote:

seb146 wrote:

Source, please.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/02/25/ ... 3777840295
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-b ... story.html
http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-c ... ion-trump/

You do understand that you stated the construction trade has been "given away" to illegals. Iplying they have taken it over, right? Is 12% taking over?

CCGPV wrote:

Have you ever done major commercial or residential work? Roofing, masonry, landscaping and framing in particular. Undocumented or non-legitimate document having workers do a lot of the work. At least in my experience in various locations.

I put a roof on a location a few years ago and the only citizens were the owner of the business. He said Americans simply don't stick around long enough.

Well that's proof if I've ever heard proof before!

Or you could look at the research that has been done on it:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/pew-7 ... le/2617560

And this is from the Washington Examiner which is the "conservative" DC paper....

Tugg

I was just stating my experience that illegal immigrants make up a large part of the people I've worked with in the construction industry. They are all good people.

MSPNWA wrote:

Inefficient is an inaccurate word to use. The reality is that the domestic industry could be more efficient. That's actually a likely scenario with available US technology and its skilled labor force. But they have no chance of competing evenly when up against cheap labor and a regime that doesn't care about even playing fields.

The two largest exporters of steel to the US are Canada and the EU. In January 2018, they exported roughly US$ 475 million of steel each, or $950 million between them. China, by comparison, is at around $90 million (less than Japan).

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43264200

I think it's fair to say that Canada and the EU - with their heavy emphasis on social welfare, high taxes, universal healthcare and strong regulation, are operating on a more difficult playing field than the US. I will grant, however, that the intended domestic audience (Trump voters) for this announcement isn't known for being well-informed. Or informed. On this or any other issue.

CCGPV wrote:

I was just stating my experience that illegal immigrants make up a large part of the people I've worked with in the construction industry. They are all good people.

How would you know if they are illegals? Don't try to tell me that they just volunteered that information because they like to talk to gringos.

longhauler wrote:

ExMilitaryEng wrote:

So, after Softwood Lumber duties, the CSeries BS (now resolved), and now aluminium, Quebec trade with US is not getting smoother.

It would be fun to watch the scramble if Hydro-Quebec decides ... OK, Vermont and New York, we're not sending electricity south any more ... see ya.

Won't work. They'll just build/re-activate coal plants and congratulate themselves on creating coal mining jobs. All of us will have to deal with the consequences.

These silly protectionist policies, like virtually all protectionist policies, are driven by special interests, not considered public policy. The simplest way to address it is by targeting the special interests. Affected countries could threaten to seize the assets of companies that lobbied for this, and auction them off locally. Nucor, for example, has a presence in Canada and Italy. Why not just target them? ArcelorMittal was at that meeting too, and while I don't think they supported this, if they did, hit them where it hurts.

That'll bring them in line. And once they're in line, the absence of a public policy rationale for protectonism will lead to this silliness being reversed soon enough.