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Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:09 am

Interesting: http://fortune.com/2018/03/08/elon-musk ... ars-china/

In short, Drumpf tweets about the high trade imbalance and something needs to be done soon, Musk points out that China puts a 25% tariff on incoming US cars while the US only puts 2.5% on Chinese made cars, Drumpf says nothing.

Drumpf is an idiot. He should have seen this response coming a mile away, but he walked right into it.

But of course China is a sacred cow and nothing will be done by this administration, just like the previous one, as Musk points out.
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:15 am

What Chinese made cars are sold in the USA?
Stay curious
 
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:18 am

CCGPV wrote:
What Chinese made cars are sold in the USA?

It's a world economy, man.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/29/auto ... in-us.html

Chinese Volvos, Buicks and Cadillacs are now hitting our shores.
Last edited by Revelation on Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:22 am

CCGPV wrote:
What Chinese made cars are sold in the USA?


A model of Buick from what I remember.
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:22 am

CCGPV wrote:
What Chinese made cars are sold in the USA?


and the Chinese are leading the electric revolution.
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:42 am

CCGPV wrote:
What Chinese made cars are sold in the USA?

For instance, BYD from China seems to sell lots of electric buses to various American towns
 
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:54 am

CCGPV wrote:
What Chinese made cars are sold in the USA?


Buick Envision
Cadillac CT6
Some Ford Focuses
Volvo S60
 
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:51 pm

Still no update from Drumpf on how he's gonna take on the Chinese and get them to lower their import tariffs on autos.
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tommy1808
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:22 pm

Revelation wrote:
Still no update from Drumpf on how he's gonna take on the Chinese and get them to lower their import tariffs on autos.


nah, he doesn´t want to lose his brand names, he just got them for handing the pacific economy to the Chinese.

best regards
Thomas
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:37 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Still no update from Drumpf on how he's gonna take on the Chinese and get them to lower their import tariffs on autos.


nah, he doesn´t want to lose his brand names, he just got them for handing the pacific economy to the Chinese.

best regards
Thomas


He's handing a lot more than the Pacific economy to the Chinese... At this rate, he's essentially setting up the planet for a new World order in which the China reigns over the global trade scene, along with relinquishing to them much of the soft power the US used to have.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:39 pm

Francoflier wrote:
At this rate, he's essentially setting up the planet for a new World order in which the China reigns over the global trade scene, along with relinquishing to them much of the soft power the US used to have.


Yup, the damage he is doing has to be difficult to undue and lasting. Otherwise he won´t get his Dacha when he fle.... ah... retires to Russia.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:11 pm

c933103 wrote:
For instance, BYD from China seems to sell lots of electric buses to various American towns


I believe at least some of them are assembled in Lancaster, California. The ones my city bought have come from there and been total crap.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:59 pm

Francoflier wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Still no update from Drumpf on how he's gonna take on the Chinese and get them to lower their import tariffs on autos.


nah, he doesn´t want to lose his brand names, he just got them for handing the pacific economy to the Chinese.

best regards
Thomas


He's handing a lot more than the Pacific economy to the Chinese... At this rate, he's essentially setting up the planet for a new World order in which the China reigns over the global trade scene, along with relinquishing to them much of the soft power the US used to have.

I am not sure what Trump is doing in this part... from the news it seems like his idea to close the trade deficit is to tell China that they need to come up with a plan to do so....
 
Route66
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:54 am

I'm not sure what the problem is, Musk is responding to Trump, who was already in process of trashing the Chinese and did indeed respond back to Musk...such a telling thread after just reading this article, do you haters believe nobody here reads the news? .... https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/08/ ... -responds/

Trump’s White House last year pointedly noted that China’s import tariffs on U.S. cars contributed to the U.S. trade deficit with China, Quartz reported.

In a press conference Thursday afternoon announcing the steel and aluminum tariffs, Trump cited Musk’s tweet about the car-tariff differential between the U.S. and China.

“We send our car over there, pay 25 percent,” Trump said. “They send their car over here, 2.5 percent.

“That’s from Elon, but everybody knows it. They’ve known it for years. They never did anything about it. It’s got to change.”

Trump then announced plans for future “reciprocal taxes” or “mirror taxes” through which the U.S. would match tariffs imposed by other countries. The President did not specify which goods would be involved, and did not provide details, other than mentioning China and India, and saying of the reciprocal taxes, “We’re going to be doing a lot of that.”


Pretty sure this wankfest thread is now over.
 
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:25 am

Beyond the Trump bashing, it'd be good to look at Musk's tweets, this is the one that bothers me the most, "“Also, no US auto company is allowed to own even 50% of their own factory in China, but there are five 100% China-owned EV auto companies in the US,” he tweeted.". China is spending big money to buy their way into markets, they openly admit it and Obama had the door wide open all along. And now Obama lovers are trashing trump for "doing nothing"....


In August, the Trump administration initiated a sweeping investigation into Chinese trade practices, including whether Chinese firms are investing in U.S. companies to steal their technology and whether they are forcing joint ventures, pressuring American companies that invest in China to transfer technology to a Chinese partner, or hacking U.S. companies’ software......

Today, advancement in industries such as robotics, self-driving cars and artificial intelligence is a matter of national policy in China. The policy, called Made in China 2025, identifies a strategy for acquiring foreign technology to build the capacity of Chinese companies.....

In recent years, Chinese capital has flooded into Silicon Valley, infusing start-ups with much-needed cash while raising questions about investors’ goals and government ties. At the same time, U.S. technology giants — including Google, Facebook, Amazon.com, Uber and Airbnb — have bent over backward to enter the massive Chinese market, largely with limited success. Google and Facebook do not operate in China; Uber’s Chinese operations are now controlled in part by its Chinese competitor, Didi Chuxing; and Amazon operates cloud data centers there, but its presence is dwarfed by Alibaba’s cloud operation.

U.S. lawmakers and officials have become increasingly concerned about the security risks of Chinese investment. Last year, the Pentagon warned in an official report that the U.S. government needed to impose stricter controls over Chinese investment because it was leading to the transfer of promising military technologies to China.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... 0cc21e57c1
 
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:07 am

Revelation wrote:
Interesting: http://fortune.com/2018/03/08/elon-musk ... ars-china/

In short, Drumpf tweets about the high trade imbalance and something needs to be done soon, Musk points out that China puts a 25% tariff on incoming US cars while the US only puts 2.5% on Chinese made cars, Drumpf says nothing.

Drumpf is an idiot. He should have seen this response coming a mile away, but he walked right into it.

But of course China is a sacred cow and nothing will be done by this administration, just like the previous one, as Musk points out.


Well, that's why the US and China negotiated at the WTO. The tariffs are higher on certain items in one country than the other and on other items they might be higher in the other country.

Overall, the trade balance is there. You can't just single out one category of products and use it as an argument for an unfair trade deal.
 
P1aneMad
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:51 am

Why are the Chinese allowed to own 100% of an American based company and factory but they only allow 50% ownership of a China based company and factory for non Chinese entities?
 
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:22 pm

P1aneMad wrote:
Why are the Chinese allowed to own 100% of an American based company and factory but they only allow 50% ownership of a China based company and factory for non Chinese entities?

China has a protectionist trade policy. For instance they deliberately blocked US entities such as Google, Facebook Amazon and Twitter so China based firms could develop to perform similar roles. All it took was the "Great Firewall" to eliminate a technological lead the US held. All the automakers (not just US, but also Japan, Germany, etc) complained about the local ownership rules but the potential of the Chinese domestic auto market was so big that they had to take whatever deal they could get or let their competitors get fat on the big Chinese market.
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CCGPV
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:38 pm

WIederling wrote:
Revelation wrote:
CCGPV wrote:
What Chinese made cars are sold in the USA?

It's a world economy, man.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/29/auto ... in-us.html

Chinese Volvos, Buicks and Cadillacs are now hitting our shores.


microscopic numbers.


I was afraid to say that for fear of being mocked for being a Trump stooge. I looked all over google and could not really find any concrete numbers other than a few thousand here and there.
.
Half the articles about Chinese imports "on the way" were from 2+ years ago.
Stay curious
 
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:38 pm

Revelation wrote:
CCGPV wrote:
What Chinese made cars are sold in the USA?

It's a world economy, man.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/29/auto ... in-us.html

Chinese Volvos, Buicks and Cadillacs are now hitting our shores.


microscopic numbers.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:57 pm

WIederling wrote:
microscopic numbers.

Nothing to worry about.

Image
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:26 pm

Revelation wrote:
WIederling wrote:
microscopic numbers.

Nothing to worry about.

Image


I think the point of the massive difference in import tax is the fact the market is so small its not on the radar yet. As soon as the numbers creep up there will be parity in the import taxes.
Stay curious
 
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:46 pm

Revelation wrote:
WIederling wrote:
microscopic numbers.

Nothing to worry about.

Image


chickentax :-)
The issue was not foreign cars but that the
local manufacturers continued to sell 1920 tech
accessorized with changing bling of the season in 1980.

in most cases protectionism was instantiated to protect superanuated local resources.
( How does that actually fit together with "we are best at everything" :-)

Today the US in comparison has the highest percentage of electric furnaces ( mini mills ) for steel cooking.
Nice and easy production but inefficient. producers abroad produce better steel for less money.
( Germany isn't really a low cost country.)
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:03 pm

CCGPV wrote:
Revelation wrote:
WIederling wrote:
microscopic numbers.

Nothing to worry about.

I think the point of the massive difference in import tax is the fact the market is so small its not on the radar yet. As soon as the numbers creep up there will be parity in the import taxes.

Musk quoted percentages, and if the tax is as he suggested, thing work differently than you suggest.

Of course I'm not a tariff expert and he could very well be dissembling, so feel free to quote a reference.

WIederling wrote:
in most cases protectionism was instantiated to protect superannuated local resources.

Please explain China's high tariffs and ownership requirements.
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:18 pm

Revelation wrote:
Please explain China's high tariffs and ownership requirements.


China protects their market to get up to speed.
( see the mechanics of a planned framework with competitive inner workings.
That was probably one major lesson taken from the Opium wars.)

'USA protects their market to fall further back.
( see greed and profit working their poison.)
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:22 pm

WIederling wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Please explain China's high tariffs and ownership requirements.

China protects their market to get up to speed.
( see the mechanics of a planned framework with competitive inner workings.
That was probably one major lesson taken from the Opium wars.)

'USA protects their market to fall further back.
( see greed and profit working their poison.)

Yet we have Tesla not yet up to speed and not getting benefits of high protectionist tariffs.

Instead they get whacked by punitive tariffs when trying to enter a high growth market like China.

If you're suggesting China is a paragon of planned growth and not subject to profit and greed motives, you need to get out more.
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:29 pm

Revelation wrote:
CCGPV wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Nothing to worry about.

I think the point of the massive difference in import tax is the fact the market is so small its not on the radar yet. As soon as the numbers creep up there will be parity in the import taxes.

Musk quoted percentages, and if the tax is as he suggested, thing work differently than you suggest.

Of course I'm not a tariff expert and he could very well be dissembling, so feel free to quote a reference.

WIederling wrote:
in most cases protectionism was instantiated to protect superannuated local resources.

Please explain China's high tariffs and ownership requirements.


He's also a car maker and businessman so he has some interest in export taxes. Similar to you I know virtually nothing about import/export deals, etc.
Stay curious
 
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:34 pm

Route66 wrote:
I'm not sure what the problem is, Musk is responding to Trump, who was already in process of trashing the Chinese and did indeed respond back to Musk...such a telling thread after just reading this article, do you haters believe nobody here reads the news?

Let's see.

Trump tweets.
Musk responds to tweet.
Trump makes comments at a press conference.

So did Donald lose his phone, or did he run short of "under the covers" time, or is he China's cuck?

And yes, to a first order approximation, nobody here or elsewhere reads the news any more.

Donald's tweets get picked up far more readily than comments made at press conferences covered by the likes of the San Jose Mercury News.

Sad, but true.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:51 pm

Whatever the taxes are, we're not going to buy gas guzzling giant pickup trucks, sorry Donald.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:08 pm

WIederling wrote:
microscopic numbers.


Chinese own all of Volvo, MG and Lotus and are now trying to buy Mercedes, but nothing for a good German to worry about....

In the US, Chinese have bought a large chunk of the parts manufacturing industry and recently looked at buying Fiat-Chrysler.

No foreign manufacturer is allowed to own more than 49% of their Chinese operations.
 
LJ
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:12 pm

Revelation wrote:
Please explain China's high tariffs and ownership requirements.


China understands that everybody wants to sell their goods in China and thus knows that foreign companies are willing to pay for it. Foreign governments don't do anything about it as this would close the door for its companies and some countries even get a lot of money from China (heck, they're even the largest non-US buyer of US treasuries). Thus there is ample of reason why some countries don't complain about China's protective market practices.

Route66 wrote:
Chinese own all of Volvo, MG and Lotus and are now trying to buy Mercedes, but nothing for a good German to worry about....


The Mercedes case is different and this is not a take over (they own just 10% and it's unlikely they will ever gain control). Volvo was a bargain and nobody else was really interested. The same for Lotus.

BTW the Germans are worried, but that's not only due to Mercedes.
 
PPVRA
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:29 pm

China’s high level of protectionist policies aren’t anything new. For the most part the planet hasn’t complained too because of how important the Chinese market is. But the Chinese will have to change at some point. When I don’t know.

China even has special classes of stocks that can be owned by foreigners and some that can only be owned by Chinese nationals.
Last edited by PPVRA on Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
PPVRA
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Re: Elon Musk Responds to Trump Tweet on China Trade Imbalance

Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:34 pm

WIederling wrote:
Revelation wrote:
CCGPV wrote:
What Chinese made cars are sold in the USA?

It's a world economy, man.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/29/auto ... in-us.html

Chinese Volvos, Buicks and Cadillacs are now hitting our shores.


microscopic numbers.


China doesn’t do anything in microscopic numbers unless they’re just getting started.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat

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