sevenair
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Latte Levy Rejected

Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:07 am

I was pleased to see the idea of a 25p coffee cup levey rejected here in the UK. I support any incentives to cut down on waste however we were promised the APD would do wonders for the environment but in reality more flights and more passengers make trips to/from/via the much detested UK than ever before.

https://news.sky.com/story/warm-words-but-no-real-action-government-accused-by-mps-over-efforts-to-cut-waste-11281716

Should government be getting involved with this? If we simply stick a 25p tax on a cup all the coffee chains will do is increase the prices and blame the government whilst no doubt some greasy pole climber will get a huge bonus for increasing turnover.

Surely if we left it to the coffee chains they would come up with much more innovative solutions such as reusables, refill, cork cups or some total wildcard and let them compete on their green credentials as well as their over priced concoctions in a cup and let the market decide?

However at the same time I'm a little torn. Does anyone remember the asparagus in water sold in a plastic bottle for $6 by Whole Foods? That was withdrawn due to public pressure as was the recent M&S cauliflower 'steaks'.

I've seen communal milk dispensers and water dispensers where you take a bottle and fill up but the idea of this makes me a little queasy and I don't like the idea of it personally but each to their own.

Is it for the government to decide or should the market decide?
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flipdewaf
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Re: Latte Levy Rejected

Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:19 am

On issues of the commons it should be down to the government to decide on the regulation. I see waste disposal as one of those issues and so a levy on something that is detrimental to the commons seems completely reasonable to handle by way of a levy. There is a cost for these cups to society and that cost needs to be recouped somehow and it seems more reasonable to apply this charge at the time of purchase rather than disposal (how would you even do that).

Fred




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scbriml
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Re: Latte Levy Rejected

Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:06 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
On issues of the commons it should be down to the government to decide on the regulation. I see waste disposal as one of those issues and so a levy on something that is detrimental to the commons seems completely reasonable to handle by way of a levy. There is a cost for these cups to society and that cost needs to be recouped somehow and it seems more reasonable to apply this charge at the time of purchase rather than disposal (how would you even do that).


I agree with this. There is a cost and it's only right that the generators of that cost (the coffee drinkers) contribute to that cost (I say this as a very keen coffee drinker). I now see more and more coffee shops offering a discount to customers who supply their own reusable cups.
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coolian2
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Re: Latte Levy Rejected

Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:46 pm

I assumed OP was all about black coffee and none of this Millennial crap. Who knew he was a fellow latte sipper?
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fr8mech
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Re: Latte Levy Rejected

Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:16 pm

scbriml wrote:
I now see more and more coffee shops offering a discount to customers who supply their own reusable cups.


Which is another way of saying they charge more for the convenience of providing a cup with your beverage.

This is a market solution.

I’m already paying for waste disposal through my taxes (public waste disposal) and through my annual waste management bill (home generated trash). Why should I have to pay a surcharge for a cup? Do we pay a surcharge for diapers, or nappies as our brethren across the pond call them? No, we don’t. Which are more detrimental to the environment?

And really, do you think this tax would really reduce waste? Of course not, it is a revenue generator, pure and simple. Sin taxes, unless set prohibitively high, do not discourage behavior.
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Bongodog1964
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Re: Latte Levy Rejected

Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:14 pm

Here in the UK the chain coffee shops told us the cups were recyclable, to say they were economical with the truth is a massive understatement. The only UK facility to do this only takes unused cups that have been damaged before ever being used !! The problem is that they have a plastic liner bonded to the paper. I was in a Costa outlet today, they clearly asked if you were drinking in or taking away, drinking in got a china cup, take away a disposable cup. Why did so many people say take away and then sit there drinking from a paper cup ? The only way to deal with it is to make a price difference.
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Latte Levy Rejected

Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:16 pm

fr8mech wrote:
scbriml wrote:
I now see more and more coffee shops offering a discount to customers who supply their own reusable cups.


Which is another way of saying they charge more for the convenience of providing a cup with your beverage.

This is a market solution.

I’m already paying for waste disposal through my taxes (public waste disposal) and through my annual waste management bill (home generated trash). Why should I have to pay a surcharge for a cup? Do we pay a surcharge for diapers, or nappies as our brethren across the pond call them? No, we don’t. Which are more detrimental to the environment?

And really, do you think this tax would really reduce waste? Of course not, it is a revenue generator, pure and simple. Sin taxes, unless set prohibitively high, do not discourage behavior.

http://www.bathnes.gov.uk/services/bins ... nappy-tips

There you are.

Fred


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coolian2
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Re: Latte Levy Rejected

Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:30 pm

fr8mech wrote:
scbriml wrote:
I now see more and more coffee shops offering a discount to customers who supply their own reusable cups.


Which is another way of saying they charge more for the convenience of providing a cup with your beverage.

This is a market solution.

I’m already paying for waste disposal through my taxes (public waste disposal) and through my annual waste management bill (home generated trash). Why should I have to pay a surcharge for a cup? Do we pay a surcharge for diapers, or nappies as our brethren across the pond call them? No, we don’t. Which are more detrimental to the environment?

And really, do you think this tax would really reduce waste? Of course not, it is a revenue generator, pure and simple. Sin taxes, unless set prohibitively high, do not discourage behavior.


I'd love to watch this argument taken to Civ Av and see how many people (armchair CEOs) suffer severe cognitive dissonance to argue for ancillary fees on air travel
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Aesma
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Re: Latte Levy Rejected

Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:19 pm

I'm not really a fan of US style coffee, well to be honest I don't think I've ever tried, the price is a bit crazy.

I think the solution for this and related problems are returnable containers. It used to be very common for glass bottles and still is in some countries, in others it's cans, here in France all that system was discarded long ago, but it's making a come-back, and I'm for government incentives on that front.
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cpd
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Re: Latte Levy Rejected

Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:36 pm

Most of the people at the coffee shop I go to are local workers and all have their own cups they use. It's a better idea - safer too, I've had dodgy takeaway cups leaking or loose lids.

Apart from that, I make a lot of my own coffee as I have a commercial coffee machine at home.
 
sevenair
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Re: Latte Levy Rejected

Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:20 am

coolian2 wrote:
I assumed OP was all about black coffee and none of this Millennial crap. Who knew he was a fellow latte sipper?


Heavens no. Good old fashioned white coffee with a sweetener. If I'm feeling super adventurous I'll put a thimble full of sugar free salted caramel syrup in. A boy has to treat himself now and again.

I must admit I have to chuckle at my airport when I check in. There are actually coffees for £5.50 (I'd want a meal for that price!) but that's why the free market is such a beautiful thing. I choose not to buy them and elect for the plain coffee instead.

I do notice a marked decline in the kids, sorry I mean 'milennials' at work with their fancy coffees. Now that the coffee shop is no longer a Starbucks they don't want to be seen with a generic coffee cup that isn't trendy enough for them although the trendy 'allergies' that seem to inflict our younger folk are quite well catered for.

I'm glad I'm not that vain.
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scbriml
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Re: Latte Levy Rejected

Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:03 am

sevenair wrote:
Heavens no. Good old fashioned white coffee with a sweetener. If I'm feeling super adventurous I'll put a thimble full of sugar free salted caramel syrup in. A boy has to treat himself now and again.


I'm not surprised you take sugar with your coffee, because based on this and other posts, you seem quite bitter.




Brexit Stupidity of Britain.

Loss of Freedom | Imploding Economy | Loss of Opportunity
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bananaboy
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Re: Latte Levy Rejected

Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:51 am

fr8mech wrote:
scbriml wrote:
I now see more and more coffee shops offering a discount to customers who supply their own reusable cups.


Sin taxes, unless set prohibitively high, do not discourage behavior...


No, they absolutely can work. See what happened with single use plastic carrier bags after a 5p charge was introduced.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... introduced

Whilst I dislike the idea of paying tax twice for a coffee cup, I support something that imposes a relatively modest penalty to discourage a behaviour that is easily changed and will have a positive impact for us all.

Mark
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sevenair
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Re: Latte Levy Rejected

Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:51 am

scbriml wrote:
sevenair wrote:
Heavens no. Good old fashioned white coffee with a sweetener. If I'm feeling super adventurous I'll put a thimble full of sugar free salted caramel syrup in. A boy has to treat himself now and again.


I'm not surprised you take sugar with your coffee, because based on this and other posts, you seem quite bitter.




Brexit Stupidity of Britain.

Loss of Freedom | Imploding Economy | Loss of Opportunity


Sweetener darling. Don't want to rot my teeth and a boy has to watch his waistline. Oh how I chuckle that you claim I'm bitter but I'm really not. My beloved political party rule this great country and I'm getting what I want which is an escape from the EUSSR. Oh the irony that you claim I'm bitter yet feel the need to hijack a completely unrelated thread to personally attack me based on my political views. When people are forced or bullied into a particular political viewpoint then it gets very dodgy indeed. Fascist much? That's the thing with you happy clappy, 'diversity is our strength', (most likely) vegan, soy boys in that scratching the surface often shows that deep down you're really nasty, authoritarian, undemocratic bigots but no doubt your views gets you lots of social media kudos. Personally I couldn't care less what people think!

Could it be, Sir, that you are the bitter one? With just over a year until we escape the German Empire 2.0 I should imagine it's you who'll be needing sugar in your coffee to overcome your extreme Brexit bitterness? If you're caught short TK Maxx have bottles of Skinny Syrups for just £4. Tremendous value and I highly recommmend the hazelnut. It'll make your soy milk latte taste that bit sweeter. If you can afford the calories you can get sachets of full sugar syrup for you to overcome your bitterness on the go. I should imagine you'll be needin it as Independence Day draws ever closer.

Merry brexit my remoaning friend.
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CCGPV
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Re: Latte Levy Rejected

Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:53 pm

sevenair wrote:
coolian2 wrote:
I assumed OP was all about black coffee and none of this Millennial crap. Who knew he was a fellow latte sipper?


Heavens no. Good old fashioned white coffee with a sweetener. If I'm feeling super adventurous I'll put a thimble full of sugar free salted caramel syrup in. A boy has to treat himself now and again.

I must admit I have to chuckle at my airport when I check in. There are actually coffees for £5.50 (I'd want a meal for that price!) but that's why the free market is such a beautiful thing. I choose not to buy them and elect for the plain coffee instead.

I do notice a marked decline in the kids, sorry I mean 'milennials' at work with their fancy coffees. Now that the coffee shop is no longer a Starbucks they don't want to be seen with a generic coffee cup that isn't trendy enough for them although the trendy 'allergies' that seem to inflict our younger folk are quite well catered for.

I'm glad I'm not that vain.


Not hard to understand when you had such a self-obsessed generation of parents. Look at what you've created.
Stay curious
 
CCGPV
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Re: Latte Levy Rejected

Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:55 pm

sevenair wrote:
scbriml wrote:
sevenair wrote:
Heavens no. Good old fashioned white coffee with a sweetener. If I'm feeling super adventurous I'll put a thimble full of sugar free salted caramel syrup in. A boy has to treat himself now and again.


I'm not surprised you take sugar with your coffee, because based on this and other posts, you seem quite bitter.




Brexit Stupidity of Britain.

Loss of Freedom | Imploding Economy | Loss of Opportunity


Sweetener darling. Don't want to rot my teeth and a boy has to watch his waistline. Oh how I chuckle that you claim I'm bitter but I'm really not. My beloved political party rule this great country and I'm getting what I want which is an escape from the EUSSR. Oh the irony that you claim I'm bitter yet feel the need to hijack a completely unrelated thread to personally attack me based on my political views. When people are forced or bullied into a particular political viewpoint then it gets very dodgy indeed. Fascist much? That's the thing with you happy clappy, 'diversity is our strength', (most likely) vegan, soy boys in that scratching the surface often shows that deep down you're really nasty, authoritarian, undemocratic bigots but no doubt your views gets you lots of social media kudos. Personally I couldn't care less what people think!

Could it be, Sir, that you are the bitter one? With just over a year until we escape the German Empire 2.0 I should imagine it's you who'll be needing sugar in your coffee to overcome your extreme Brexit bitterness? If you're caught short TK Maxx have bottles of Skinny Syrups for just £4. Tremendous value and I highly recommmend the hazelnut. It'll make your soy milk latte taste that bit sweeter. If you can afford the calories you can get sachets of full sugar syrup for you to overcome your bitterness on the go. I should imagine you'll be needin it as Independence Day draws ever closer.

Merry brexit my remoaning friend.


I'm not a fan of this character. Its too over the top and obvious.
Stay curious
 
sevenair
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Re: Latte Levy Rejected

Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:11 pm

CCGPV wrote:
sevenair wrote:
scbriml wrote:

I'm not surprised you take sugar with your coffee, because based on this and other posts, you seem quite bitter.




Brexit Stupidity of Britain.

Loss of Freedom | Imploding Economy | Loss of Opportunity


Sweetener darling. Don't want to rot my teeth and a boy has to watch his waistline. Oh how I chuckle that you claim I'm bitter but I'm really not. My beloved political party rule this great country and I'm getting what I want which is an escape from the EUSSR. Oh the irony that you claim I'm bitter yet feel the need to hijack a completely unrelated thread to personally attack me based on my political views. When people are forced or bullied into a particular political viewpoint then it gets very dodgy indeed. Fascist much? That's the thing with you happy clappy, 'diversity is our strength', (most likely) vegan, soy boys in that scratching the surface often shows that deep down you're really nasty, authoritarian, undemocratic bigots but no doubt your views gets you lots of social media kudos. Personally I couldn't care less what people think!

Could it be, Sir, that you are the bitter one? With just over a year until we escape the German Empire 2.0 I should imagine it's you who'll be needing sugar in your coffee to overcome your extreme Brexit bitterness? If you're caught short TK Maxx have bottles of Skinny Syrups for just £4. Tremendous value and I highly recommmend the hazelnut. It'll make your soy milk latte taste that bit sweeter. If you can afford the calories you can get sachets of full sugar syrup for you to overcome your bitterness on the go. I should imagine you'll be needin it as Independence Day draws ever closer.

Merry brexit my remoaning friend.


I'm not a fan of this character. Its too over the top and obvious.


I apologise. I note that you’re totally ok with targeted abuse toward me due to me bein ‘differently opinionated’. Bravo you, zir.
BeLeave in better.
 
CCGPV
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Re: Latte Levy Rejected

Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:24 pm

sevenair wrote:
CCGPV wrote:
sevenair wrote:

Sweetener darling. Don't want to rot my teeth and a boy has to watch his waistline. Oh how I chuckle that you claim I'm bitter but I'm really not. My beloved political party rule this great country and I'm getting what I want which is an escape from the EUSSR. Oh the irony that you claim I'm bitter yet feel the need to hijack a completely unrelated thread to personally attack me based on my political views. When people are forced or bullied into a particular political viewpoint then it gets very dodgy indeed. Fascist much? That's the thing with you happy clappy, 'diversity is our strength', (most likely) vegan, soy boys in that scratching the surface often shows that deep down you're really nasty, authoritarian, undemocratic bigots but no doubt your views gets you lots of social media kudos. Personally I couldn't care less what people think!

Could it be, Sir, that you are the bitter one? With just over a year until we escape the German Empire 2.0 I should imagine it's you who'll be needing sugar in your coffee to overcome your extreme Brexit bitterness? If you're caught short TK Maxx have bottles of Skinny Syrups for just £4. Tremendous value and I highly recommmend the hazelnut. It'll make your soy milk latte taste that bit sweeter. If you can afford the calories you can get sachets of full sugar syrup for you to overcome your bitterness on the go. I should imagine you'll be needin it as Independence Day draws ever closer.

Merry brexit my remoaning friend.


I'm not a fan of this character. Its too over the top and obvious.


I apologise. I note that you’re totally ok with targeted abuse toward me due to me bein ‘differently opinionated’. Bravo you, zir.


I'm no abusing you. Stop being so sensitive.

I'm just saying how silly you sound with your typical "back in my day" talk. But that's what your generation does- blame everyone but yourselves. Tee hee.
Stay curious
 
sevenair
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Re: Latte Levy Rejected

Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:02 pm

CCGPV wrote:
sevenair wrote:
CCGPV wrote:

I'm not a fan of this character. Its too over the top and obvious.


I apologise. I note that you’re totally ok with targeted abuse toward me due to me bein ‘differently opinionated’. Bravo you, zir.


I'm no abusing you. Stop being so sensitive.

I'm just saying how silly you sound with your typical "back in my day" talk. But that's what your generation does- blame everyone but yourselves. Tee hee.


Erm, I'm just over 30 my friend. I don't recall me blaming anyone for anything. I merely made an observation.
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fr8mech
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Re: Latte Levy Rejected

Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:09 pm

bananaboy wrote:
I support something that imposes a relatively modest penalty to discourage a behaviour that is easily changed and will have a positive impact for us all.
Mark


I think what you have to look at is the impacted demographic.

Who pays ~$4 for a cup of coffee? People that can afford it, and presumably, people that can afford another $0.25 on top of it. Their behavior will not change. The tax will impact the low percentage of low income folks that saw that pricey cup of coffee as a luxury. I don’t think the tax will have any impact on the amount of trash out there, and is simply a money grab.

To contrast your plastic bag tax...everyone was impacted by that, because just about everyone used those bags. For a sin tax to work effectively, the price elasticity of demand has to be high across all consumers of the product. $0.25 on a cup of $4.00 coffee isn’t going to move that needle at all.
When seconds count...the authorities are minutes away.
Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
You are not entitled to a public safe space.
 
CCGPV
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Re: Latte Levy Rejected

Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:14 pm

sevenair wrote:
CCGPV wrote:
sevenair wrote:

I apologise. I note that you’re totally ok with targeted abuse toward me due to me bein ‘differently opinionated’. Bravo you, zir.


I'm no abusing you. Stop being so sensitive.

I'm just saying how silly you sound with your typical "back in my day" talk. But that's what your generation does- blame everyone but yourselves. Tee hee.


Erm, I'm just over 30 my friend. I don't recall me blaming anyone for anything. I merely made an observation.


lol whatever dude.
Stay curious
 
bananaboy
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Re: Latte Levy Rejected

Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:27 pm

fr8mech wrote:
bananaboy wrote:
I support something that imposes a relatively modest penalty to discourage a behaviour that is easily changed and will have a positive impact for us all.
Mark


I think what you have to look at is the impacted demographic.

Who pays ~$4 for a cup of coffee? People that can afford it, and presumably, people that can afford another $0.25 on top of it. Their behavior will not change. The tax will impact the low percentage of low income folks that saw that pricey cup of coffee as a luxury. I don’t think the tax will have any impact on the amount of trash out there, and is simply a money grab.

To contrast your plastic bag tax...everyone was impacted by that, because just about everyone used those bags. For a sin tax to work effectively, the price elasticity of demand has to be high across all consumers of the product. $0.25 on a cup of $4.00 coffee isn’t going to move that needle at all.


30p or so for carrier bags on the weekly shop wouldn't "move the needle" either for most.

I hear what you're saying but I still don't see this as a punitive money grab. It makes us all think...it's started a discussion and people are looking at their behaviour. There's no specification on what the cup must be; those who view that coffee as a luxury could grab a mug from home or the office and still enjoy a treat.

No one wants to pay extra tax but there's an easy work around.. Either bring your own cup or take a moment, sit down and enjoy your overpriced hot beverage of choice whilst contemplating the effect of single use plastic on the environment. :)
All my life, I've been kissing, your top lip 'cause your bottom one's missing
 
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fr8mech
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Re: Latte Levy Rejected

Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:51 pm

bananaboy wrote:

30p or so for carrier bags on the weekly shop wouldn't "move the needle" either for most.

I hear what you're saying but I still don't see this as a punitive money grab. It makes us all think...it's started a discussion and people are looking at their behaviour. There's no specification on what the cup must be; those who view that coffee as a luxury could grab a mug from home or the office and still enjoy a treat.

No one wants to pay extra tax but there's an easy work around.. Either bring your own cup or take a moment, sit down and enjoy your overpriced hot beverage of choice whilst contemplating the effect of single use plastic on the environment. :)


I never said it was punitive, I just said it was a money grab. Call it a usage tax, or what it is, a sin tax. Now, kick it up to 25% or more, and we can start to call it punitive.

The bag tax isn’t effective because of the price, it’s effective because it affects a much broader demographic then a coffee cup tax would. Just about everybody uses/used those bags. Not everybody is willing to pay for a high-end cup of coffee. Those that do probably won’t be impacted by a small tax.

Let’s look at the extreme. We have “luxury taxes” here (really, a sin tax, but luxury tax sounds more palatable). Buy a yacht or high-end car, or some sort thing, and pay the government for the privilege of doing so. Does this impact me in any real way? Of course not. Does the tax really affect the high-end consumer...at least in a way to effect a behavioral change? I don’t think so. They already have the money to buy the product, the tax isn’t really going to be a factor. The luxury tax only shakes off that small percentage at the bottom who were on the bubble. It’s a revenue generator. Of course, we can look at what affect the luxury tax may have on the greater economy, but for this case, we’ll use the term that economists love to use...”all things being equal, if we... then we can expect...”

High-end, craft coffee can be looked at in the same way. If a 6% sin tax isn’t going to change the behavior of the core consumer demographic of that coffee.
When seconds count...the authorities are minutes away.
Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
You are not entitled to a public safe space.
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Latte Levy Rejected

Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:29 pm

sevenair wrote:

I'm glad I'm not that vain.

He says "I'm not vain" so the whole internet an see it. That's like anonymous giving on Facebook or "look at me not noticing they were black" .

This is essentially your very own "no makeup selfie" moment. You sir, are just a millennial with a right win bias.

Fred


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bananaboy
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Re: Latte Levy Rejected

Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:53 pm

fr8mech wrote:
bananaboy wrote:

30p or so for carrier bags on the weekly shop wouldn't "move the needle" either for most.

I hear what you're saying but I still don't see this as a punitive money grab. It makes us all think...it's started a discussion and people are looking at their behaviour. There's no specification on what the cup must be; those who view that coffee as a luxury could grab a mug from home or the office and still enjoy a treat.

No one wants to pay extra tax but there's an easy work around.. Either bring your own cup or take a moment, sit down and enjoy your overpriced hot beverage of choice whilst contemplating the effect of single use plastic on the environment. :)


I never said it was punitive, I just said it was a money grab. Call it a usage tax, or what it is, a sin tax. Now, kick it up to 25% or more, and we can start to call it punitive.

The bag tax isn’t effective because of the price, it’s effective because it affects a much broader demographic then a coffee cup tax would. Just about everybody uses/used those bags. Not everybody is willing to pay for a high-end cup of coffee. Those that do probably won’t be impacted by a small tax.

Let’s look at the extreme. We have “luxury taxes” here (really, a sin tax, but luxury tax sounds more palatable). Buy a yacht or high-end car, or some sort thing, and pay the government for the privilege of doing so. Does this impact me in any real way? Of course not. Does the tax really affect the high-end consumer...at least in a way to effect a behavioral change? I don’t think so. They already have the money to buy the product, the tax isn’t really going to be a factor. The luxury tax only shakes off that small percentage at the bottom who were on the bubble. It’s a revenue generator. Of course, we can look at what affect the luxury tax may have on the greater economy, but for this case, we’ll use the term that economists love to use...”all things being equal, if we... then we can expect...”

High-end, craft coffee can be looked at in the same way. If a 6% sin tax isn’t going to change the behavior of the core consumer demographic of that coffee.


All I can say is anecdotally I know people from various income ranges that have reduced their carrier bag usage because of the principal of having to pay as well as the environmental benefits of consuming less.

Can't be sure but given the buzz around this issue at the moment, I don't think it unreasonable to assume this could happen here. I suppose we are both guessing on wider behavioural impacts as, for me at least, I haven't been able to find any research. Would be interested if you have any to share.

Is it an easy way to get some cash into the government? Quite probably. But there are genuine benefits to us all of having less of this stuff around, regardless of whether you're a consumer of it or not. 7 billion cups a year just from the UK is a disgrace.

Mark
All my life, I've been kissing, your top lip 'cause your bottom one's missing
 
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scbriml
Posts: 15934
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Latte Levy Rejected

Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:36 pm

sevenair wrote:
Fascist much? That's the thing with you happy clappy, 'diversity is our strength', (most likely) vegan, soy boys in that scratching the surface often shows that deep down you're really nasty, authoritarian, undemocratic bigots but no doubt your views gets you lots of social media kudos.


Swing and a miss, champ. Or maybe you prefer the analogy of playing and missing outside your off-stump?

sevenair wrote:
Personally I couldn't care less what people think!


Yet you felt compelled to respond. The lady doth protest too much, methinks. :scratchchin:

sevenair wrote:
Merry brexit my remoaning friend.


There will be nothing in the slightest bit merry about Brexit. The naivety of those believing the 1%ers like Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg claiming we'll be better off outside the EU is simply mind-numbingly hilarious. I would love Brexit to be a huge success, but I don't believe we'll be better off after Brexit by any measurable metric whatsoever. Quite the reverse.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
sevenair
Topic Author
Posts: 2689
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

Re: Latte Levy Rejected

Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:23 pm

scbriml wrote:
sevenair wrote:
Fascist much? That's the thing with you happy clappy, 'diversity is our strength', (most likely) vegan, soy boys in that scratching the surface often shows that deep down you're really nasty, authoritarian, undemocratic bigots but no doubt your views gets you lots of social media kudos.


Swing and a miss, champ. Or maybe you prefer the analogy of playing and missing outside your off-stump?

sevenair wrote:
Personally I couldn't care less what people think!


Yet you felt compelled to respond. The lady doth protest too much, methinks. :scratchchin:

sevenair wrote:
Merry brexit my remoaning friend.


There will be nothing in the slightest bit merry about Brexit. The naivety of those believing the 1%ers like Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg claiming we'll be better off outside the EU is simply mind-numbingly hilarious. I would love Brexit to be a huge success, but I don't believe we'll be better off after Brexit by any measurable metric whatsoever. Quite the reverse.


I completely disagree. Even if it’s a complete disaster (which I firmly don’t believe it will be) the one beautiful thing about Brexit is seeing you arrogant huggy fluff metropolitan elite soy boys triggered. In the entree. You lost and for once things didn’t go your way. Times are a changing!

Over 18 months you’re all still absolutely stunned and I think it’s hilarious!!

I truly hope Brexit brings you the misery and suffering that you’ve been hoping for.
BeLeave in better.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 15934
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Latte Levy Rejected

Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:07 pm

sevenair wrote:
I completely disagree. Even if it’s a complete disaster (which I firmly don’t believe it will be) the one beautiful thing about Brexit is seeing you arrogant huggy fluff metropolitan elite soy boys triggered. In the entree. You lost and for once things didn’t go your way. Times are a changing!

Over 18 months you’re all still absolutely stunned and I think it’s hilarious!!

I truly hope Brexit brings you the misery and suffering that you’ve been hoping for.


That's a remarkable amount of vitriol for someone who claims not to be bitter! :rotfl:
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
CCGPV
Posts: 1292
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:18 pm

Re: Latte Levy Rejected

Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:35 pm

sevenair wrote:
scbriml wrote:
sevenair wrote:
Fascist much? That's the thing with you happy clappy, 'diversity is our strength', (most likely) vegan, soy boys in that scratching the surface often shows that deep down you're really nasty, authoritarian, undemocratic bigots but no doubt your views gets you lots of social media kudos.


Swing and a miss, champ. Or maybe you prefer the analogy of playing and missing outside your off-stump?

sevenair wrote:
Personally I couldn't care less what people think!


Yet you felt compelled to respond. The lady doth protest too much, methinks. :scratchchin:

sevenair wrote:
Merry brexit my remoaning friend.


There will be nothing in the slightest bit merry about Brexit. The naivety of those believing the 1%ers like Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg claiming we'll be better off outside the EU is simply mind-numbingly hilarious. I would love Brexit to be a huge success, but I don't believe we'll be better off after Brexit by any measurable metric whatsoever. Quite the reverse.


I completely disagree. Even if it’s a complete disaster (which I firmly don’t believe it will be) the one beautiful thing about Brexit is seeing you arrogant huggy fluff metropolitan elite soy boys triggered. In the entree. You lost and for once things didn’t go your way. Times are a changing!

Over 18 months you’re all still absolutely stunned and I think it’s hilarious!!

I truly hope Brexit brings you the misery and suffering that you’ve been hoping for.
.

Dang I think I cut myself on all that edginess! You showed them!
Stay curious
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 891
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

Re: Latte Levy Rejected

Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:39 pm

To steer things back on topic...

sevenair wrote:
Is it for the government to decide or should the market decide?


I think it needs a bit of both.

The government can levy a surcharge on disposable cups if they can't be recycled easily, but at the same time coffee chains and cafes need to be doing their bit to try and encourage habits to change. One option is to procure eco-friendly cups such as these: https://www.vegware.com/biodegradable-h ... at_4.html#

I've no idea how much they cost versus normal cups. Another one is for more recycling facilities to open that can process disposable coffee cups. Finally, there's the option to offer a discount for those using their own cups - Starbucks offer 25p off if you use a Starbucks-branded reusable cup, whereas Costa go one step further and offer 25p off if you use any reusable cup (be it their own branded cups or something else). The only flaw with the discount scheme or adding a surcharge to hot drinks served in disposable cups is that sometimes it's not always practical to carry a reusable cup around, so this steers things back to the eco-friendly option.

Finally, recent history here in the UK tells you that it's not always a good idea for the government to be intervening on certain topics. The Transport Secretary Chris Grayling said that drivers should "think carefully" before buying a diesel car due to the concerns of the impact diesel pollution has on human health, despite the fact that diesels emit less CO2 than petrol and there are drivers out there whom only have diesels to turn to as the best option. The result is that sales of new diesel cars are down, whereas petrol's are still not as fuel-efficient as diesels (important for those who drive lots of miles), not all car manufacturers offer hybrid options across their ranges and there's a noticeable price increase versus straight petrol/diesel versions, whereas electric cars along with their practicalities are still expensive and have some way to go before the technology is mature enough to be a viable option for many.

The hypocrisy in all this is that Grayling has announced the cancellation of numerous railway electrification schemes and using bi-mode trains instead (i.e. trains that run on electric with diesel engines for unelectrified bits) with flaky claims that they can supposedly deliver benefits sooner, yet conveniently ignoring the environmental impact of running diesel trains. So it seems it's bad for car drivers to run diesel cars yet it's OK to confine certain rail routes to running diesel trains for many years to come and use bi-mode trains as excuses to not electrify more lines. :roll: :irked:

Anyway, I digress. Back to coffee cups...
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 10424
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Latte Levy Rejected

Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:12 pm

In France taxes on diesel fuel have been increased with a clear plan to make them equal to those on gas in a few years. People have of course heard of the dieselgate and the dangers of diesel pollution. And finally Paris' mayor has announced her intention to ban diesel from the streets in 2024. After several German cities have talked about doing it even sooner. Diesel cars are suddenly much more difficult to sell used.

All of these easily explain why diesel sales are down.

As of the Geneva car show Toyota has announced they'll stop diesel engines for cars as soon as the end of this year !
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams

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