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winginit
Posts: 2543
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:44 pm

winginit wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Ah, yes. Those anonymous officials that NBC loves so much.


So state your claim then - are you of the belief that NBC News made up a report attributing blame to Russia in an attempt to further the Trump/Russia narrative?


No claim then? Shame. I think we would have all benefitted immensely from the take of a pure moderate so wholly untainted by the sins of partisanship.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 8816
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:02 pm

So should Trump Resign since he has now completely backtracked on Syria ?


https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/07/politics ... index.html

"National security adviser John Bolton, stressing the US' commitment to the Syria fight in Israel and Turkey, said Sunday that US forces wouldn't leave until ISIS has been crushed and Kurdish fighters working with US troops are protected, describing these as the President's official positions despite the fact that Trump himself hasn't publicly said the same.
Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, meanwhile, is traveling to eight Middle Eastern countries to stress the US "is not leaving," officials say."
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
seb146
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:50 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Russia hacked the United States' election in 2016


There is not one iota of evidence the election results were hacked or otherwise successfully manipulated by the Russians or anyone else. You can keep saying it, but that doesn’t make it true.


You keep saying things that are not true with zero evidence. If you can do it, anyone can. If you don't like it, maybe you should post links.

Oh, by the way

https://www.cnn.com/2016/12/26/us/2016- ... index.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44825345
https://www.vox.com/world/2017/6/13/157 ... p-sessions
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/electi ... on-n850296
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/09/ ... 10348.html

Take your pick. I know that none of them are Fox, so you will immediately scream "FAKE!" but it happened.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:01 pm

None of those articles say that the election results were hacked.
 
winginit
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Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:18 pm

seb146 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Russia hacked the United States' election in 2016


There is not one iota of evidence the election results were hacked or otherwise successfully manipulated by the Russians or anyone else. You can keep saying it, but that doesn’t make it true.


You keep saying things that are not true with zero evidence. If you can do it, anyone can. If you don't like it, maybe you should post links.

Oh, by the way

https://www.cnn.com/2016/12/26/us/2016- ... index.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44825345
https://www.vox.com/world/2017/6/13/157 ... p-sessions
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/electi ... on-n850296
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/09/ ... 10348.html

Take your pick. I know that none of them are Fox, so you will immediately scream "FAKE!" but it happened.


To be fair, those links aren’t claiming that the elections were successfully hacked or the results in any way changed. The articles simply claim they were targeted.
 
salttee
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:43 pm

winginit wrote:
To be fair, those links aren’t claiming that the elections were successfully hacked or the results in any way changed. The articles simply claim they were targeted.

Are you going to claim that those efforts were utterly and completely ineffective?

Those actions can logically be assumed to have changed some votes, to think otherwise would be magical thinking. Whether they changed enough votes to swing the election results can never be known with certainty. But we know the election was close.
 
winginit
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:46 pm

salttee wrote:
winginit wrote:
To be fair, those links aren’t claiming that the elections were successfully hacked or the results in any way changed. The articles simply claim they were targeted.

Are you going to claim that those efforts were utterly and completely ineffective?

Those actions can logically be assumed to have changed some votes, to think otherwise would be magical thinking. Whether they changed enough votes to swing the election results can never be known with certainty. But we know the election was close.


It depends on how you define effective and thus how you define a successful hack. Do I think Americans cast votes at the ballot box that were changed via the hack of foreign powers? I do not, and no one has credibly claimed as much.

Do I think some voters cast their vote for candidates because they were fed and believed misleading facts and stories? I do, but I don’t consider those votes ‘hacked’.

A lot of terms need to be defined here as we make our arguments. If a ‘hack’ is to infiltrate our election systems and deliberately change votes that were lawfully cast, I do not believe that our elections were hacked.

I do believe that Russia was involved in deliberate misinformation campaigns that favored Donald Trump.
Last edited by winginit on Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
seb146
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:49 pm

winginit wrote:
seb146 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:

There is not one iota of evidence the election results were hacked or otherwise successfully manipulated by the Russians or anyone else. You can keep saying it, but that doesn’t make it true.


You keep saying things that are not true with zero evidence. If you can do it, anyone can. If you don't like it, maybe you should post links.

Oh, by the way

https://www.cnn.com/2016/12/26/us/2016- ... index.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44825345
https://www.vox.com/world/2017/6/13/157 ... p-sessions
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/electi ... on-n850296
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/09/ ... 10348.html

Take your pick. I know that none of them are Fox, so you will immediately scream "FAKE!" but it happened.


To be fair, those links aren’t claiming that the elections were successfully hacked or the results in any way changed. The articles simply claim they were targeted.


They don't say what you want them to say so they are invalid? Post your links, then. Show us it didn't happen. Give us your fake links that we can dismiss.

Just because you say something does not make it true.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/tag/russia ... n-meddling
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018 ... -for-trump

And for the Republican states who still use voting machines

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... -machines/
https://www.npr.org/2018/09/21/64953536 ... r-scrutiny

I am posting all of this because "Russia did not have anything to do with election meddling" or whatever VTK said.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
salttee
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:00 pm

winginit wrote:
Do I think some voters cast their vote for candidates because they were fed and believed misleading facts and stories? I do, but I don’t consider those votes ‘hacked’.

The definition of the word "hacked" is just a strawman. If you agree that "some voters cast their vote for candidates because they were fed and believed misleading facts and stories" then we are in agreement. Who cares whether "hacked" is an appropriate word or not? I don't.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:11 pm

salttee wrote:
winginit wrote:
Do I think some voters cast their vote for candidates because they were fed and believed misleading facts and stories? I do, but I don’t consider those votes ‘hacked’.

The definition of the word "hacked" is just a strawman. If you agree that "some voters cast their vote for candidates because they were fed and believed misleading facts and stories" then we are in agreement. Who cares whether "hacked" is an appropriate word or not? I don't.

You left out an important point. There is no evidence that any Russian influence was responsible for changing the outcome of the election.
 
winginit
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:12 pm

seb146 wrote:
winginit wrote:
seb146 wrote:

You keep saying things that are not true with zero evidence. If you can do it, anyone can. If you don't like it, maybe you should post links.

Oh, by the way

https://www.cnn.com/2016/12/26/us/2016- ... index.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44825345
https://www.vox.com/world/2017/6/13/157 ... p-sessions
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/electi ... on-n850296
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/09/ ... 10348.html

Take your pick. I know that none of them are Fox, so you will immediately scream "FAKE!" but it happened.


To be fair, those links aren’t claiming that the elections were successfully hacked or the results in any way changed. The articles simply claim they were targeted.


They don't say what you want them to say so they are invalid? Post your links, then. Show us it didn't happen. Give us your fake links that we can dismiss.

Just because you say something does not make it true.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/tag/russia ... n-meddling
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018 ... -for-trump

And for the Republican states who still use voting machines

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... -machines/
https://www.npr.org/2018/09/21/64953536 ... r-scrutiny

I am posting all of this because "Russia did not have anything to do with election meddling" or whatever VTK said.


I have read all of your articles, and my conclusions are summarized below. They are unchanged from my previously held position:

Russia deliberately and methodically actively worked to spread misinformation and blatantly false narratives that almost certainly caused voters to vote for Donald Trump where they otherwise may not have. In that sense, Russia undoubtedly “meddled” in the 2016 Presidential Election.

Our system of voting, by way of ballot boxes, is in many places antequated and is thus vulnerable to hacking.

There continues to be no evidence that those ballot boxes susceptible to interference were indeed interfered with or infiltrated by either domestic or foreign powers. Said differently, there is no evidence that Average Joe American went to the ballot box, voted for candidate A, and because the system was interfered with his vote was registered as having voted for candidate B. I believe that the results of the 2016 election mirror the intention of the American voters even if those intentions were crafted by false and misleading narratives deliberately spread by both domestic and foreign powers.

Those are my claims. Russia meddled in and likely influenced to some unknown degree our election, but they did not infiltrate the mechanics of our voting system and they did not change votes already cast.

I look forward to hearing Mueller’s findings. While I’m not convinced it will come to pass, it is my hope that his report directly implicates Donald Trump in actively seeking Russia’a assistance in influencing the 2016 election, and I hope the end result is Inmate #91835 - Donald Trump.

If your thoughts are contrary to my stated claims above I look forward to hearing them.
 
salttee
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:57 pm

More news on the Muller probe, this news will be the story that turns the corner on Trumps claim of no collusion.

Manafort Shared Trump Campaign Data With Russian Associate, Prosecutors Say
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/08/us/p ... imnik.html

Paul Manafort shared Trump campaign polling data with an associate tied to Russian intelligence during the 2016 campaign, prosecutors alleged, according to a court filing unsealed on Tuesday.


Manafort was giving the Russians the information they needed to target their internet disinformation campaign.

Even if nothing else comes out (very unlikely) this is the smoking gun that proves collusion.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:09 pm

If you feel you have the evidence introduce articles of impeachment. If not stop with the propaganda and just wait till 2020 like a normal sane person.
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die,
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:23 pm

I missed the part of that article that alleged that Trump did anything. That’s rather important if you want to go after Trump rather than Manafort.
 
winginit
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:29 pm

salttee wrote:
Manafort was giving the Russians the information they needed to target their internet disinformation campaign.


This does indeed reflect extremely poorly on the campaign. I'm glad Mueller is aware of this, and I'm glad Paul Manafort appears to have Michael Cohen-esk levels of bad lawyers who are too stupid to properly redact a document so that we can be made aware of this information.

VTKillarney wrote:
I missed the part of that article that alleged that Trump did anything. That’s rather important if you want to go after Trump rather than Manafort.


This is also a relevant point that in my mind prevents the above from being a smoking gun against Trump in isolation. Even with this new information, without a direct line to Trump (ie evidence that Trump directed Paul Manafort to work with the Russians to formulate a misinformation campaign), Trump can likely snake his way out of this being specifically damning to him in a criminal sense. If Trump did indeed make that direction we'll know as the walls have firmly closed in around Paul Manafort, but we don't know if that direction took place simply based on the above.

In isolation this is not yet a smoking gun against Donald Trump.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:35 pm

From the article: Mr. Manafort “may have discussed a Ukraine peace plan” with the Russian associate, Konstantin V. Kilimnik, “on more than one occasion.”

Hmm... no allegation of anything to do with interfering with the election.
 
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johnboy
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:36 am

NIKV69 wrote:
If you feel you have the evidence introduce articles of impeachment. If not stop with the propaganda and just wait till 2020 like a normal sane person.


Perhaps we should let Speaker Pelosi decide on the timing and presentation of articles of impeachment, as I’m guessing that most here are not members of Congress. Wouldn’t it be a pip if Mother Maxine actually knocked on the WH doors and shoved them into Tramp’s hands? :bouncy:

That seems like what most normal, sane people would do.
 
seb146
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:40 am

NIKV69 wrote:
If you feel you have the evidence introduce articles of impeachment. If not stop with the propaganda and just wait till 2020 like a normal sane person.


And that is the problem: People like you and VTK and Fox talking heads honestly believe it is all propaganda and will stop at nothing to scream and cry and carry on that it is simply a witch hunt against a poor, downtrodden victim.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:08 am

seb146 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
If you feel you have the evidence introduce articles of impeachment. If not stop with the propaganda and just wait till 2020 like a normal sane person.


And that is the problem: People like you and VTK and Fox talking heads honestly believe it is all propaganda and will stop at nothing to scream and cry and carry on that it is simply a witch hunt against a poor, downtrodden victim.

That is not how I feel. The only thing I feel is that we should await the evidence. I would feel that way no matter which party the subject was from.

Please stop projecting what you WANT me to think. I can speak for myself, thank you.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:15 am

salttee wrote:
winginit wrote:
Do I think some voters cast their vote for candidates because they were fed and believed misleading facts and stories? I do, but I don’t consider those votes ‘hacked’.

The definition of the word "hacked" is just a strawman. If you agree that "some voters cast their vote for candidates because they were fed and believed misleading facts and stories" then we are in agreement. Who cares whether "hacked" is an appropriate word or not? I don't.


It is simply a Layer 8 hack.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
A3801000
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:20 am

A3801000 wrote:
Apparent Mueller grand jury fight involved an unidentified corporation. DC Circuit upholds subpoena.

Image

Ruling: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ejPu14 ... vh0PW/view

Interesting: Owned by Country A.


Getting closer:

'US Supreme Court rejects appeal from an unidentified company in a foreign country that was seeking to escape a grand jury subpoena that is widely assumed to be sought by Special Counsel Mueller's prosecutors. '

"The administrative stay previously entered ... is vacated."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/suprem ... se-n956381
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:28 am

johnboy wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
If you feel you have the evidence introduce articles of impeachment. If not stop with the propaganda and just wait till 2020 like a normal sane person.


Perhaps we should let Speaker Pelosi decide on the timing and presentation of articles of impeachment, as I’m guessing that most here are not members of Congress. Wouldn’t it be a pip if Mother Maxine actually knocked on the WH doors and shoved them into Tramp’s hands? :bouncy:

That seems like what most normal, sane people would do.


The longer we can go without impeaching him, the better for the democrats. The man is a fund raising machine for the democrats and he's the best possible motivator in existence for voter participation. He's also causing some serious brain drain in the Republican party. There won't be much left of the gop by the time he's done with it if he's not impeached.

However, Mueller IS a Republican and if he does have solid impeachment and indictment material on Trump he might feel pressure from within himself to present that information prior to 2020 to salvage the gop.

Otherwise it's Trumps party now and even if he manages an 8 year term, if the gop completes the transition to being a cult of personality it will collapse without him.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:35 am

Jouhou wrote:
causing some serious brain drain in the Republican party. .


anyone keeping track how many GOP lawmakers have already left to join the democrats or become independent?

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
NIKV69
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:07 am

seb146 wrote:

And that is the problem: People like you and VTK and Fox talking heads honestly believe it is all propaganda and will stop at nothing to scream and cry and carry on that it is simply a witch hunt against a poor, downtrodden victim.


Then produce the evidence and introduce articles of impeachment. All we have heard is a lot of hot air.
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die,
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:13 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
causing some serious brain drain in the Republican party. .


anyone keeping track how many GOP lawmakers have already left to join the democrats or become independent?

best regards
Thomas


There aren't a lot of lawmaker flips. It seems the unhappy ones are just retiring. There's a few defections happening at the state government level where it doesn't capture Trumpist's attention. It's their major donors, long time strategists, and FORMER lawmakers who are changing parties and ripping on trumpism.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:28 am

I have long thought that Donald Trump himself and people around him during the campaign made sure that there was no physical or digital evidence to connect him directly with the Russian attempts to affect the 2016 Presidential election in his favor. If there was any contacts, it was strictly verbal with no real way to verify any such discussions.
That Manifort resigned from the Trump campaign in mid to late August 2016 as investigations were reveled as to his financial dealings with persons connected with the Ukraine may have been a lucky way to get him out of the campaign and limit possible damage. The court filing on Tuesday in Manifort's criminal case with some parts not filed under seal suggesting he had contacts with key Kremlin persons who were involved with Russia's campaign to support Trump adds to the speculation that there was coordination of the Trump campaign by Russian intelligence.
Donald Trump was the boss of his campaign and responsible for the actions of his employees even if not directly involved. He should face penalties for them.
 
seb146
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:54 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

And that is the problem: People like you and VTK and Fox talking heads honestly believe it is all propaganda and will stop at nothing to scream and cry and carry on that it is simply a witch hunt against a poor, downtrodden victim.


Then produce the evidence and introduce articles of impeachment. All we have heard is a lot of hot air.


Several of us have actually posted many links. The problem is the Senate is ruled by a party who think it is more important to stay in power than do what is right. If Republicans were truly patriotic, they would not have a problem with the clear facts staring them in the face. But, you all have been told it is fake so many times, you believe that and not facts.

The problem is the Republican party refusing to believe facts and reality.

Before you get all "but both sides do it" go on and show us the evidence that Obama committed impeachable offenses and, further, the Democratic party blocked those articles. We will wait.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:08 pm

So now with Manafort's lawyers screw up we know the following.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/08/politics ... index.html


The Campaign was in contact with Russian intelligence during 2016
Trump's claims of "No Collusion" are looking to be false as his campaign was sharing polling data

Is there more to come?
What does this Russian Company, that is not producing documents have to do with it?
Was this and intentional mistake by the lawyers to give Trump the heads up that he is in real trouble?
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:36 am

Don’t break out the handcuffs yet.

A pretty major screwup by the New York Times:
“A previous version of this article misidentified the people to whom Paul Manafort wanted a Russian associate to send polling data. Mr. Manafort wanted the data sent to two Ukrainian oligarchs, Serhiy Lyovochkin and Rinat Akhmetov, not to Oleg V. Deripaska, a Russian oligarch close to the Kremlin.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/08/us/p ... 7oUsggfGVg

At least the new names are also complicated and Slavic, so readers can still draw their preferred sinister inferences.
 
winginit
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:47 am

VTKillarney wrote:
Don’t break out the handcuffs yet.

A pretty major screwup by the New York Times:
“A previous version of this article misidentified the people to whom Paul Manafort wanted a Russian associate to send polling data. Mr. Manafort wanted the data sent to two Ukrainian oligarchs, Serhiy Lyovochkin and Rinat Akhmetov, not to Oleg V. Deripaska, a Russian oligarch close to the Kremlin.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/08/us/p ... 7oUsggfGVg

At least the new names are also complicated and Slavic, so readers can still draw their preferred sinister inferences.


And yet if you read literally the next sentence after the corrected one you'll see the following:

The oligarchs had financed Russian-aligned Ukrainian political parties that had hired Mr. Manafort as a political consultant.


Great! I feel much better now that a Presidential campaign manager was sharing polling data with Ukrainian oligarchs who had financed Russian-aligned Ukrainian political parties as opposed to a Russian associate. Nothing to see here Mueller!

I expect better from you. Do better.
 
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johnboy
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:03 am

winginit wrote:

I expect better from you. Do better.


You do? I sure don’t.

One cannot leave out salient details of a source and expect to remain legitimate - it’s positively Trumpian in scope!

However, in his defense, I’m sure it’s getting rather difficult to find sources that pander to his particular worldview - it’s far easier just to scrape away the “Problematic Parts” and run with that.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:44 am

winginit wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
At least the new names are also complicated and Slavic, so readers can still draw their preferred sinister inferences.


And yet if you read literally the next sentence after the corrected one you'll see the following:

The oligarchs had financed Russian-aligned Ukrainian political parties that had hired Mr. Manafort as a political consultant.


Great! I feel much better now that a Presidential campaign manager was sharing polling data with Ukrainian oligarchs who had financed Russian-aligned Ukrainian political parties as opposed to a Russian associate. Nothing to see here Mueller!


using a cutout is a dead give away that you know what you are doing is illegal.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:08 am

Sorry if this has already been posted, but I wanted the Liberals to watch this and feel all warm and fuzzy inside:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8Ab-qIWfIo
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:36 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Sorry if this has already been posted, but I wanted the Liberals to watch this and feel all warm and fuzzy inside:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8Ab-qIWfIo



Its Tom Steyer. Everyone knows he his trying to impeach. Not a good ad though.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
seb146
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:02 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Don’t break out the handcuffs yet.

A pretty major screwup by the New York Times:
“A previous version of this article misidentified the people to whom Paul Manafort wanted a Russian associate to send polling data. Mr. Manafort wanted the data sent to two Ukrainian oligarchs, Serhiy Lyovochkin and Rinat Akhmetov, not to Oleg V. Deripaska, a Russian oligarch close to the Kremlin.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/08/us/p ... 7oUsggfGVg

At least the new names are also complicated and Slavic, so readers can still draw their preferred sinister inferences.


The act still happened. Why is that so hard for you MAGA fan boys to understand?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:06 pm

seb146 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Don’t break out the handcuffs yet.

A pretty major screwup by the New York Times:
“A previous version of this article misidentified the people to whom Paul Manafort wanted a Russian associate to send polling data. Mr. Manafort wanted the data sent to two Ukrainian oligarchs, Serhiy Lyovochkin and Rinat Akhmetov, not to Oleg V. Deripaska, a Russian oligarch close to the Kremlin.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/08/us/p ... 7oUsggfGVg

At least the new names are also complicated and Slavic, so readers can still draw their preferred sinister inferences.


The act still happened. Why is that so hard for you MAGA fan boys to understand?


Why would you pass polling information to any foreign government?

There is still a lot to uncover and probably explains why trump is really drumming up the wall right now .
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:55 pm

casinterest wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
Sorry if this has already been posted, but I wanted the Liberals to watch this and feel all warm and fuzzy inside:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8Ab-qIWfIo



Its Tom Steyer. Everyone knows he his trying to impeach. Not a good ad though.


HIs paid ad was running on local TV in California. Haven't seen any of his ads on Texas television. I guess it's a local campaign for his fellow Dems in CA.
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:19 pm

Even FOX NEWS sees that there is collusion .

https://theweek.com/speedreads/816826/f ... eam-russia

""If this is collusion — though collusion isn't a crime — this would be collusion,” Smith said. "The crime is the conspiracy, the agreement," Napolitano said. "Collusion is a nonlegal term." "I know, but if there's collusion," Smith pressed, "giving stuff to the Russians about polling data ..." "Would probably fit into that kind of a category," Napolitano agreed. The Manafort talk begins at the 4:30 mark."
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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johnboy
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:30 am

casinterest wrote:
Even FOX NEWS sees that there is collusion .

https://theweek.com/speedreads/816826/f ... eam-russia

""If this is collusion — though collusion isn't a crime — this would be collusion,” Smith said. "The crime is the conspiracy, the agreement," Napolitano said. "Collusion is a nonlegal term." "I know, but if there's collusion," Smith pressed, "giving stuff to the Russians about polling data ..." "Would probably fit into that kind of a category," Napolitano agreed. The Manafort talk begins at the 4:30 mark."


Exactly. Conspiracy is the crime. The Trumpistas are going to be that quite frequently very soon. Really, it’s quite entertaining to see all the inelegant “two-stepping” going on around here.
 
A3801000
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:44 pm

And it continues:

“Trump has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal details of his conversations with Putin, including on at least one occasion taking possession of his interpreter’s notes and instructing him not to discuss what had transpired with other officials”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... story.html


"U.S. officials said there is no detailed record, even in classified files, of Trump’s face-to-face interactions with the Russian leader at five locations over the past two years."
 
seb146
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:59 pm

I don't know if this has been posted yet. There is so much, it is hard to keep up.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show ... VvBsvi78O8

Lawyers for individual #1 want to see the official Mueller report and edit it before We The People see it. They don't want us to see the official report, just the report team MAGA wants us to see.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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johnboy
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:13 pm

seb146 wrote:
I don't know if this has been posted yet. There is so much, it is hard to keep up.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show ... VvBsvi78O8

Lawyers for individual #1 want to see the official Mueller report and edit it before We The People see it. They don't want us to see the official report, just the report team MAGA wants us to see.



I have no doubt the Democrats will call Mueller before Congress to speak ALL ABOUT this report, even if parts are redacted by these Trump idiots. Prior to that, My bet is on Cohen to provide mesmerizing TV on February 7th. You know EVERY network will show it.
 
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Jouhou
Posts: 1962
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:57 pm

seb146 wrote:
I don't know if this has been posted yet. There is so much, it is hard to keep up.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show ... VvBsvi78O8

Lawyers for individual #1 want to see the official Mueller report and edit it before We The People see it. They don't want us to see the official report, just the report team MAGA wants us to see.


His lawyers aren't nearly skilled enough to justify that.

Emmett Flood is the best lawyer on team Trump, but he represents the office of the president, not the individual. That means if he's faced with a situation where he chooses between the country and the president, he's obligated to stay loyal to the country. It's probably why he originally refused to be a personal lawyer to Trump.
 
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johnboy
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:05 pm

Goodness! I thought for sure I had posted this. It's pretty important.

"Legendary journalist Carl Bernstein has said that he’s been told that special counsel Robert Mueller’s report will show how President Donald Trump helped Russia “destabilize the United States."

https://www.newsweek.com/mueller-report ... st-1289541
 
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:09 pm

Bernstein hasn’t exactly been accurate in regard to matters Trump. He’s past his prime.
 
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Jouhou
Posts: 1962
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:21 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Bernstein hasn’t exactly been accurate in regard to matters Trump. He’s past his prime.


And nothing accurate ever comes out of Trump. I hope everyone here who understands the gravity of the situation starts stomping on these Trump defender's feelings.

They are a threat to the country. They are not loyal to the country, they don't care about the well being of the country, and their opinions do not deserve respect.
 
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johnboy
Posts: 3035
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 9:09 pm

Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:34 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Bernstein hasn’t exactly been accurate in regard to matters Trump. He’s past his prime.



I’m sure this post is the first of many trying to backpedal. Like I said before, wonder what aiding and abetting feels like? I certainly wouldn’t know.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:57 am

An interesting development. ABC News chief Washington correspondent Jonathan Karl, on ABC’s "This Week" with George Stephanopoulos, said that those who are hoping for a "bombshell" in special counsel Robert Mueller's Russia investigation are likely to be disappointed, according to his sources.

The exact quote:
"What I am getting is that this is all building up to the Mueller report and raising expectations of a bombshell report. And there have been expectations that have been building, of course, for over a year on this. But people who are closest to what Mueller has been doing, interacting with the special counsel caution me that this report is almost certain to be anti-climactic."
 
salttee
Posts: 3149
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Trump Resignation/Impeachment Megathread

Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:05 am

Who is Jonathan Karl? For that matter, does ABC still have a "news" department? Have they broken any stories in the last few decades? Does anybody watch them?
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