Freakysh
Posts: 502
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:49 am

Re: Ireland decriminalizes abortion!

Mon May 28, 2018 11:31 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
Freakysh wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
What education? The same people that are anti abortion are also anti contraception and anti sex education, and on the rare occasion they do push "education" it's reliably ineffective garbage like abstinence only education, and that's how trailer trash like Sara Palin becomes an unplanned grandma twice over because Bristol can't keep her legs closed.


There's more to the world than redneck USA

Not when redneck USA is running the white house--any family planning program funded by the USA is now pushing ineffective christian voodoo


The white house isn't the world dude.

But anyway, those attitudes you described are wrong. Contraception should be encouraged, respecting yourself and promoting responsible sex should be encouraged. This applies to men and women.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

Re: Ireland decriminalizes abortion!

Mon May 28, 2018 11:45 pm

aviationaware wrote:
Most abortions are not caused by rape, incest or other monstrous acts. Most abortions are caused by irresponsible behavior of the woman getting the abortion. I will not condone anyone's murder of a child out of convenience, and that's what most abortions are. Pro choice my ass.


And the men who fathered the child - do they not bear at least 50% responsibility?

Or do belong to that curious strain of religion that insists it is never the man's fault?

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
jetero
Posts: 4457
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Ireland decriminalizes abortion!

Tue May 29, 2018 12:59 am

mariner wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
Most abortions are not caused by rape, incest or other monstrous acts. Most abortions are caused by irresponsible behavior of the woman getting the abortion. I will not condone anyone's murder of a child out of convenience, and that's what most abortions are. Pro choice my ass.


And the men who fathered the child - do they not bear at least 50% responsibility?

Or do belong to that curious strain of religion that insists it is never the man's fault?

mariner


If I may paraphrase AA, I believe it’s the woman’s fault for letting a man “bareback” her like the horse she obviously is.

Freakysh says the man is doing her a favor, after all being forced by the government to raise an unwanted child is something to be thankful for.
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 9262
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Ireland decriminalizes abortion!

Tue May 29, 2018 2:25 am

Freakysh wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Freakysh wrote:
Rather than push to educate people to act responsibly, we instead encourage the wrong behaviour by saying don't worry about it, here's a get out of jail free card. .

What education? The same people that are anti abortion are also anti contraception and anti sex education, and on the rare occasion they do push "education" it's reliably ineffective garbage like abstinence only education, and that's how trailer trash like Sara Palin becomes an unplanned grandma twice over because Bristol can't keep her legs closed.


There's more to the world than redneck USA

Yes, of course, but the Catholic church is also the same as what you assign to "redneck USA". The Catholic church globally opposes contraceptives, sex education, and abortion. And globally the Catholic church are among the most influential on this topic (which is why Ireland had the laws it had for so long, fortunately there is now enough population outside the church there now).

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
Freakysh
Posts: 502
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:49 am

Re: Ireland decriminalizes abortion!

Tue May 29, 2018 2:31 am

Tugger wrote:
Freakysh wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
What education? The same people that are anti abortion are also anti contraception and anti sex education, and on the rare occasion they do push "education" it's reliably ineffective garbage like abstinence only education, and that's how trailer trash like Sara Palin becomes an unplanned grandma twice over because Bristol can't keep her legs closed.


There's more to the world than redneck USA

Yes, of course, but the Catholic church is also the same as what you assign to "redneck USA". The Catholic church globally opposes contraceptives, sex education, and abortion. And globally the Catholic church are among the most influential on this topic (which is why Ireland had the laws it had for so long, fortunately there is now enough population outside the church there now).

Tugg


Absolutely, the Catholic church has a lot to answer for and isn't without scrutiny in this debate.
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Posts: 1962
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Ireland decriminalizes abortion!

Tue May 29, 2018 2:56 am

aviationaware wrote:
DarkSnowyNight wrote:
There is a spot for You on Harvey Weinstein's jury.


I would probably find Weinstein guilty. He is a sleaze bag and a perv. But that does not remove 100% of the blame from his victims. Why did they go up to his hotel room? I mean count 1 and 1 together. A man does not invite a woman to his hotel room to play chess. Harvey Weinstein (and other celebrities) only had/have such an easy time preying on women because there are enough irresponsible and gullible victims out there.

That being said, putting yourself in a position where you might be sexually abused and risking a chance pregnancy in consensual sex is not comparable at all, because the latter involves no crime.

Mir wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
I don't have any numbers to back up my claim, but I am willing to chop off both my hands if even 1% of abortions are following conception despite the use of both a condom and the pill, which is really not asking too much.


Well, funny thing about that:

"More than half of women who got an abortion last year were using at least one form of contraception, according to data released by the British Pregnancy Advisory Service, a United Kingdom charity that provides reproductive health services, including abortions."

Ah, but those numbers include people who were using contraception incorrectly. Surely the numbers of those using it correctly must be below 1%, right?

"Of those with unintended pregnancies, 5% used contraception consistently and correctly"

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/more- ... 2017-08-02

So...I hope you're not too attached to having hands. :scared:


They were using one. I was talking about using 2, and using the most reliable too as an add-on. There are many contraceptives that are easily applied wrongly and even if applied correctly, they are not as effective as others. Now, some women react badly to the pill so they can't take it. That's not good, but those aren't most women.
Taking the pill is easy and not asking too much. Just be a bit reliable and self disciplined. Same with condoms. Guy doesn't want to put one on? Too bad, no sex tonight. Easy as that. Not getting pressured into saying yes is a feat of character, and if you can't do it your parents screwed up bigtime.

Meanwhile, we are only discussing this from the female perspective, and I am sure that's the most important by far. But the truth also is, a lot of women probably get pressured into getting an abortion by men who don't want a baby around. Well guess what: If you're willing to stick your dick in there, then you better be ready to pay for it when the time comes.


Ever have a guy whine about wearing a condom, reluctantly put it on, and then rip the thing off mid coitus? I have. All. The fucking. Time.

Men are real douchebags about giving no shits about knocking us up.
Tugger wrote:
Freakysh wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
What education? The same people that are anti abortion are also anti contraception and anti sex education, and on the rare occasion they do push "education" it's reliably ineffective garbage like abstinence only education, and that's how trailer trash like Sara Palin becomes an unplanned grandma twice over because Bristol can't keep her legs closed.


There's more to the world than redneck USA

Yes, of course, but the Catholic church is also the same as what you assign to "redneck USA". The Catholic church globally opposes contraceptives, sex education, and abortion. And globally the Catholic church are among the most influential on this topic (which is why Ireland had the laws it had for so long, fortunately there is now enough population outside the church there now).

Tugg


The Catholic church ain't got shit on the fundamentalist strains of Christianity we have in the US.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 11630
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Ireland decriminalizes abortion!

Tue May 29, 2018 4:01 am

Freakysh wrote:
bagoldex wrote:
Freakysh wrote:

Yes they did. They didn't want to get pregnant and chose not to ensure they wouldn't get pregnant. That's a choice.

That beta male guilt trip won't work on me. This isn't about telling a woman what she can and can't do.


Then what precisely is it about?


It's about society taking the easy way out. Rather than push to educate people to act responsibly, we instead encourage the wrong behaviour by saying don't worry about it, here's a get out of jail free card.


Make abortion easy and they'll happen during the first days/weeks of a pregnancy. When we're just talking about an embryo of a few grams. Many people say abortion should not be seen as another form of contraception, and while I understand the argument, I disagree with it. Society has every reason to ensure the only people born are people their parents wanted. There is no downside. The planet is overcrowded, last time I checked.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Freakysh
Posts: 502
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:49 am

Re: Ireland decriminalizes abortion!

Tue May 29, 2018 4:07 am

Aesma wrote:
Freakysh wrote:
bagoldex wrote:

Then what precisely is it about?


It's about society taking the easy way out. Rather than push to educate people to act responsibly, we instead encourage the wrong behaviour by saying don't worry about it, here's a get out of jail free card.


Make abortion easy and they'll happen during the first days/weeks of a pregnancy. When we're just talking about an embryo of a few grams. Many people say abortion should not be seen as another form of contraception, and while I understand the argument, I disagree with it. Society has every reason to ensure the only people born are people their parents wanted. There is no downside. The planet is overcrowded, last time I checked.


That's a very clinical way of looking at it.

I'm more interested in why we need to have it that way, and how we can avoid it, which is an issue that seems to be put into the too hard basket for a variety of reasons.
 
bagoldex
Topic Author
Posts: 1027
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:33 pm

Re: Ireland decriminalizes abortion!

Tue May 29, 2018 4:16 am

Freakysh wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Freakysh wrote:

It's about society taking the easy way out. Rather than push to educate people to act responsibly, we instead encourage the wrong behaviour by saying don't worry about it, here's a get out of jail free card.


Make abortion easy and they'll happen during the first days/weeks of a pregnancy. When we're just talking about an embryo of a few grams. Many people say abortion should not be seen as another form of contraception, and while I understand the argument, I disagree with it. Society has every reason to ensure the only people born are people their parents wanted. There is no downside. The planet is overcrowded, last time I checked.


That's a very clinical way of looking at it.

I'm more interested in why we need to have it that way, and how we can avoid it, which is an issue that seems to be put into the too hard basket for a variety of reasons.


If you don't like abortion, don't get one. That's all there is to it.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 10602
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Ireland decriminalizes abortion!

Tue May 29, 2018 7:01 am

Freakysh wrote:
I'm more interested in why we need to have it that way, and how we can avoid it, which is an issue that seems to be put into the too hard basket for a variety of reasons.


Make it legal and easily accessible. That is what it takes to keep the numbers low. Nope, that is not a contradiction.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
Freakysh
Posts: 502
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:49 am

Re: Ireland decriminalizes abortion!

Tue May 29, 2018 7:21 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Freakysh wrote:
I'm more interested in why we need to have it that way, and how we can avoid it, which is an issue that seems to be put into the too hard basket for a variety of reasons.


Make it legal and easily accessible. That is what it takes to keep the numbers low. Nope, that is not a contradiction.

best regards
Thomas


We'll see about that
 
User avatar
Channex757
Posts: 2350
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:07 am

Re: Ireland decriminalizes abortion!

Tue May 29, 2018 7:35 am

Freakysh wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Freakysh wrote:
I'm more interested in why we need to have it that way, and how we can avoid it, which is an issue that seems to be put into the too hard basket for a variety of reasons.


Make it legal and easily accessible. That is what it takes to keep the numbers low. Nope, that is not a contradiction.

best regards
Thomas


We'll see about that

Finland (as stated earlier in this thread)
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 17256
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Ireland decriminalizes abortion!

Tue May 29, 2018 7:38 am

Tugger wrote:
Yes, of course, but the Catholic church is also the same as what you assign to "redneck USA". The Catholic church globally opposes contraceptives, sex education, and abortion. And globally the Catholic church are among the most influential on this topic (which is why Ireland had the laws it had for so long, fortunately there is now enough population outside the church there now).

Tugg


Another male-dominated apparatus telling women what they can and can't do. :sarcastic:

Freakysh wrote:
That's a very clinical way of looking at it.


It's a clinical process.

Freakysh wrote:
I'm more interested in why we need to have it that way, and how we can avoid it, which is an issue that seems to be put into the too hard basket for a variety of reasons.


For exactly the same reasons women have been getting abortions for about as long as they've been getting pregnant. In a perfect World there would be no unwanted pregnancies, but we don't live in that World. People are stupid, people make mistakes, women do get raped, contraception does fail.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 21479
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

Re: Ireland decriminalizes abortion!

Wed May 30, 2018 5:48 am

Freakysh wrote:
Apart from the actions of rape, or medical issues, what situation are women "forced" into?


Well, rape, sexual assault, sexual abuse.

It's not as if these things are uncommon, you know.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Posts: 1962
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Ireland decriminalizes abortion!

Wed May 30, 2018 7:18 am

DocLightning wrote:
Freakysh wrote:
Apart from the actions of rape, or medical issues, what situation are women "forced" into?


Well, rape, sexual assault, sexual abuse.

It's not as if these things are uncommon, you know.


Image
 
Freakysh
Posts: 502
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:49 am

Re: Ireland decriminalizes abortion!

Wed May 30, 2018 8:30 am

DocLightning wrote:
Freakysh wrote:
Apart from the actions of rape, or medical issues, what situation are women "forced" into?


Well, rape, sexual assault, sexual abuse.

It's not as if these things are uncommon, you know.


Is there an echo in here?
 
User avatar
CitizenJustin
Posts: 496
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:12 am

Re: Ireland decriminalizes abortion!

Wed May 30, 2018 9:26 am

jetero wrote:
Freakysh wrote:
Tugger wrote:
I agree this is one way for women to take responsibility for actions. Unlike some that just talk and blame others and force women into situations that no one should be forced into.

No one "wants" abortion, it is a terrible choice. But one that people need available none the less because no matter what it will occur, it should be safe and rare and available.

Tugg


Apart from the actions of rape, or medical issues, what situation are women "forced" into?


Here’s some Freakysh transparency again ... describing more than half of the human population as if they were pets!

Please, future world, SIGN UP WITH THIS GUY!!!!! Freakysh is our future!!!!! He’s got it all figured out, and I have no doubt his view of the world will work out well. At the end of the day, when you think about it, the real problem is that more men like Freakysh have been muzzled for so long for not being able to speak their true beliefs without consequence. I’m glad this grave injustice will soon be corrected.


His views are very black/white. This is typical amongst conservatives due to their inability to cope with complex issues. The world is only getting more complex and that’s why they’re becoming so vicious and extreme. Their brains are short circuiting.
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 21479
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

Re: Ireland decriminalizes abortion!

Wed May 30, 2018 2:41 pm

Freakysh wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
Freakysh wrote:
Apart from the actions of rape, or medical issues, what situation are women "forced" into?


Well, rape, sexual assault, sexual abuse.

It's not as if these things are uncommon, you know.


Is there an echo in here?


Your question was: "Apart from the actions of rape..."

This implies that rape is uncommon. Perhaps you did not mean to imply that. But I am pointing out that it is *very* common. Even if you don't buy the near 15% figure above, it's still well above 5%. And I suspect that it may be higher than 15%. Just, as a gay man, the way that other gay men behaved toward me when I was a cute, young thing was *very* informative to me.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
Freakysh
Posts: 502
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:49 am

Re: Ireland decriminalizes abortion!

Wed May 30, 2018 10:19 pm

DocLightning wrote:
Freakysh wrote:
DocLightning wrote:

Well, rape, sexual assault, sexual abuse.

It's not as if these things are uncommon, you know.


Is there an echo in here?


Your question was: "Apart from the actions of rape..."

This implies that rape is uncommon. Perhaps you did not mean to imply that. But I am pointing out that it is *very* common. Even if you don't buy the near 15% figure above, it's still well above 5%. And I suspect that it may be higher than 15%. Just, as a gay man, the way that other gay men behaved toward me when I was a cute, young thing was *very* informative to me.


Ok doc, thanks for your input
 
bennett123
Posts: 8857
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Ireland decriminalizes abortion!

Wed May 30, 2018 11:09 pm

Since the 1967 Act, the number of abortions has spiralled.

190K in England and Wales in 2016.

Is this the route for Ireland as well.
 
CCGPV
Posts: 1292
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:18 pm

Re: Ireland decriminalizes abortion!

Wed May 30, 2018 11:12 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Since the 1967 Act, the number of abortions has spiralled.

190K in England and Wales in 2016.

Is this the route for Ireland as well.


Sure, if people want one they can get one. If someone finds it abhorrent they don't have to get one.

Best of both worlds.
Stay curious
 
bagoldex
Topic Author
Posts: 1027
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:33 pm

Re: Ireland decriminalizes abortion!

Thu May 31, 2018 12:01 am

bennett123 wrote:
Since the 1967 Act, the number of abortions has spiralled.

190K in England and Wales in 2016.

Is this the route for Ireland as well.


Still better than, or at least preferable to thousands of unwanted, neglected, abused and ultimately suffering kids.
 
User avatar
HELyes
Posts: 1637
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:26 am

Re: Ireland decriminalizes abortion!

Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:02 pm

The Irish referendum has started a little political drama in Finland. In Finland abortion is not on the agenda and generally religion is seen a very private matter, not to be mixed with daily politics. Finland is the least Catholic country in Europe, the Catholic Church only has some 15,000 members in the whole country but Finland's current foreign minister Mr Soini is a converted, devout Catholic. And he has ties to Ireland.

First Mr Soini participated in an anti-abortion march while on an official trip in Canada, where he tweeted (in English) how awesome it was to join the march as a foreign minister of Finland. Later he expressed his disappointment with the outcome of the referendum held in Ireland. All this has sparked controversy in Finland, the government had to clarify that these acts and comments are not official government policy. Generally the reaction has been this is weird behavior from a cabinet minister, the minister himself said earlier he feels free to speak out and "defend life".
 
Freakysh
Posts: 502
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:49 am

Re: Ireland decriminalizes abortion!

Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:17 pm

HELyes wrote:
The Irish referendum has started a little political drama in Finland. In Finland abortion is not on the agenda and generally religion is seen a very private matter, not to be mixed with daily politics. Finland is the least Catholic country in Europe, the Catholic Church only has some 15,000 members in the whole country but Finland's current foreign minister Mr Soini is a converted, devout Catholic. And he has ties to Ireland.

First Mr Soini participated in an anti-abortion march while on an official trip in Canada, where he tweeted (in English) how awesome it was to join the march as a foreign minister of Finland. Later he expressed his disappointment with the outcome of the referendum held in Ireland. All this has sparked controversy in Finland, the government had to clarify that these acts and comments are not official government policy. Generally the reaction has been this is weird behavior from a cabinet minister, the minister himself said earlier he feels free to speak out and "defend life".


Wow. That is weird. He has a personal opinion on the matter and has shared it. What a jerk. What gall!

Why can't politicians just toe the line? Tsk tsk
 
User avatar
HELyes
Posts: 1637
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:26 am

Re: Ireland decriminalizes abortion!

Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:49 pm

Freakysh wrote:
Why can't politicians just toe the line? Tsk tsk


Not just Catholics, Protestants too know how to mix things. The Finnish parliament has a tiny party of devout Lutheran Protestants who fought hard against the same sex marriage, one of the arguments in their media was the law will make God to turn his back to Finland and Russia will attack us... ;)
 
tommy1808
Posts: 10602
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Ireland decriminalizes abortion!

Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:39 pm

bagoldex wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Since the 1967 Act, the number of abortions has spiralled.

190K in England and Wales in 2016.

Is this the route for Ireland as well.


Still better than, or at least preferable to thousands of unwanted, neglected, abused and ultimately suffering kids.


There probably isn´t a difference, it is just that illegal abortions don´t make official statistics.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12151
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Ireland decriminalizes abortion!

Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:10 pm

Freakysh wrote:
par13del wrote:
So a question, what is the penalty - social or otherwise - for a man to choose not to use a condom and he subsequently gets a woman pregnant?


No penalty. Why should there be a penalty? Conceivingg a baby isn't a criminal act


If a man took off his condom and got the woman pregnant that is a criminal act, the guy could be charged with rape.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12151
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Ireland decriminalizes abortion!

Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:59 pm

Freakysh wrote:
Raising a child isn't punishment, unless you are that self absorbed, then I guess it is.


Raising a child that you don't want sure is, it's tough on the child, tough on the parents, better to not have it than put the child through a miserable childhood.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12151
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Ireland decriminalizes abortion!

Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:04 pm

Jouhou wrote:

Ever have a guy whine about wearing a condom, reluctantly put it on, and then rip the thing off mid coitus? I have. All. The fucking. Time.



Here in Norway you could have that prick charged with rape.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12151
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Ireland decriminalizes abortion!

Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:11 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Since the 1967 Act, the number of abortions has spiralled.

190K in England and Wales in 2016.

Is this the route for Ireland as well.


They've been reducing since 2007.

Year Births Abortions
2007 772,245 219,454
2008 794,383 216,133
2009 790,204 208,930
2010 807,271 209,131
2011 807,776 208,678
2012 812,970 203,587
2013 782,089 202,778
2014 776,352 201,885
2015 777,167 203,101
2016 774,841 202,469
 
Freakysh
Posts: 502
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:49 am

Re: Ireland decriminalizes abortion!

Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:07 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Freakysh wrote:
par13del wrote:
So a question, what is the penalty - social or otherwise - for a man to choose not to use a condom and he subsequently gets a woman pregnant?


No penalty. Why should there be a penalty? Conceivingg a baby isn't a criminal act


If a man took off his condom and got the woman pregnant that is a criminal act, the guy could be charged with rape.


That wasn't the question though. But if he removes it during the act, then it's rape and you can refer to my earlier post.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: anrec80, Number6, redtas7, seb146 and 26 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos