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AA747123
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Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:53 pm

Trump can pardon himself in the illegal unconstitutional "Russia witch hunt". Trump really needs to pull up his pants on this one and fire Muller and close the investigation. Trump is the ultimate authority in this land.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/06 ... -that.html
 
2122M
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Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:12 pm

I don't know if you are serious or trolling, but even if you are joking there are a great number of people out there that have allowed themselves to believe this. It really is amazing how Trump has convinced the 'freedom loving' right that allowing him unchecked power with no oversight and no compromise is the best thing for America.

Can you imagine the pure indignation the right would express if Clinton had won and hinted that she no longer had to answer to the rule of law? You think the "Lock Her Up" crowd would have just shrugged and said, "well, she's the president now so there is nothing that can be done."?
 
BlueberryWheats
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Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:13 pm

Sadly, after witnessing a few AA747123 posts recently I'm inclined to believe he's actually being serious.
The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut.
 
jetero
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Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:13 pm

I agree, he should just get on with it and dissolve Congress and the court system too. Let’s rip that band aid off.
 
desertjets
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Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:20 pm

Image
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
jetero
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Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:22 pm

CCGPV wrote:
BlueberryWheats wrote:
Sadly, after witnessing a few AA747123 posts recently I'm inclined to believe he's actually being serious.


He's not. Its a duplicate account used for these types of posts.

I think its hilarious.


CC’s circle jerk continues ...
 
CCGPV
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Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:24 pm

BlueberryWheats wrote:
Sadly, after witnessing a few AA747123 posts recently I'm inclined to believe he's actually being serious.


He's not. Its a duplicate account used for these types of posts.

I think its hilarious.
Stay curious
 
CCGPV
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Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:32 pm

jetero wrote:
CCGPV wrote:
BlueberryWheats wrote:
Sadly, after witnessing a few AA747123 posts recently I'm inclined to believe he's actually being serious.


He's not. Its a duplicate account used for these types of posts.

I think its hilarious.


CC’s circle jerk continues ...


I'm not wrong. He's clearly here just to cause trouble and people take the bait every time because they just can't help themselves.
Stay curious
 
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zkojq
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Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:34 pm

Since when did watching Judge Judy make you a legal scholar?
First to fly the 787-9
 
jetero
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Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:36 pm

CCGPV wrote:
jetero wrote:
CCGPV wrote:

He's not. Its a duplicate account used for these types of posts.

I think its hilarious.


CC’s circle jerk continues ...


I'm not wrong. He's clearly here just to cause trouble and people take the bait every time because they just can't help themselves.


Yawn
 
2122M
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Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:46 pm

jetero wrote:
I agree, he should just get on with it and dissolve Congress and the court system too. Let’s rip that band aid off.


OK, this is a super long post, so I apologize, but I think its worth a read as I think its a good combination of funny and scary. It is, with a few edits, Grand Chancellor Palpatine's speech to the Senate in Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith when he dissolves the Republic to establish the Empire (I mostly swapped "separatists" for "Democrats" and "Jedi" for "Deep State" with a few others). Have a read and tell me you can't see Trump saying this word for word in about 8 months time if things go his way:

"Citizens of the America, on this day we mark a transition. For 250 years, the Republic stood as the crowning achievement of civilized beings. But there were those who would set us against one another, and we took up arms to defend our way of life against the Democrats. In so doing, we never suspected that the greatest threat came from within.
The Deep State, and some within our own Senate, had conspired to create the shadow of Liberalism using one of their own as the enemy's leader. They had hoped to grind the Republic into ruin. But the hatred in their hearts could not be hidden forever. At last, there came a day when our enemies showed their true natures.

The Deep State hoped to unleash their destructive power against the Republic by assassinating the head of government and usurping control of the army. But the aims of would-be tyrants were valiantly opposed by those without elitist, dangerous powers. Our loyal troopers contained the insurrection within the Deep State and quelled uprisings on a thousand worlds.

The remaining Deep State will be hunted down and defeated! Any collaborators will suffer the same fate. These have been trying times, but we have passed the test. The attempt on my life has left me scarred and deformed, but I assure you my resolve has never been stronger. The war is over. The Democrats have been defeated, and the Deep State rebellion has been foiled. We stand on the threshold of a new beginning. In order to ensure our security and continuing stability, the Republic will be reorganized into the first Trumpian Empire, for a safe and secure society, which I assure you will last for ten thousand years. An Empire that will continue to be ruled by this august body and a sovereign ruler chosen for life. An Empire ruled by the majority, ruled by a new constitution!

By bringing the entire galaxy under one law, one language, and the enlightened guidance of one individual, the corruption that plagued the Republic in its later years will never take root. State governors will eliminate the bureaucracy that allowed the Democratic movement to grow unchecked. A strong and growing military will ensure the rule of law.

Under the Empire's New Order, our most cherished beliefs will be safeguarded. We will defend our ideals by force of arms. We will give no ground to our enemies and will stand together against attacks from within or without. Let the enemies of the Empire take heed: those who challenge Imperial resolve will be crushed.

We have taken on a task that will be difficult, but the people of the Empire are ready for the challenge. Because of our efforts, the galaxy has traded war for peace and anarchy for stability. Billions of beings now look forward to a secure future. The Empire will grow as more countries feel the call, from the Pacific Rim to the wilds of unknown Africa.

Imperial citizens must do their part. Join our grand army. Become the eyes of the Empire by reporting suspected insurrectionists. Travel to the corners of the planet to spread the principles of the New Order to barbarians. Build monuments and technical wonders that will speak of our glory for generations to come.

The troopers, now proudly wearing the name of Imperial TrumpTroopers, have tackled the dangerous work of fighting our enemies on the front lines. Many have died in their devotion to me. Imperial citizens would do well to remember their example.

The New Order of peace has triumphed over the shadowy secrecy of shameful magicians. The direction of our course is clear. I will lead the America to glories beyond imagining.
We have been tested, but we have emerged stronger. We move forward as one people: the Imperial citizens of the first Trumpian Empire. We will prevail. Ten thousand years of peace begins today."
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:56 pm

Brilliant, just brilliant...
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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OA412
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Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:03 pm

Poster in topic claims OP is using a duplicate, "troll" account. Topic locked. Using troll accounts to clog up the forum is strictly prohibited.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
luckyone
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Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:14 pm

How convenient that I was just watching Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone last night. Anyone remember the troll scene? Very helpful here to remember: A Troll is a magical creature of prodigious strength and immense stupidity. In fact, they are so stupid that they actually had a wizarding exam failing grade named after them. Anyone can speak Troll. All you have to do is point and grunt.

So to this thread I give my best Tim Taylor Grunt....Ugh Ugh Ugh.
 
PlymSpotter
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Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:11 pm

Great, so he can pardon himself.

Frankly, I'm more interested in whether Melania can also 'pardon' him. :bouncy:
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
jetero
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Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:22 pm

PlymSpotter wrote:
Great, so he can pardon himself.

Frankly, I'm more interested in whether Melania can also 'pardon' him. :bouncy:


I wish she would pardon herself from the prenup agreement.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:59 pm

No, a President cannot pardon themselves as to Impeachment proceedings or crimes while in office per the Constitution. The question is could a President pardon themselves for crimes prior to taking office. Trump could sabotage any investigations connected with him by getting Mueller fired, pardoning or commuting any convictions or proceedings of his supporters, friends and family or if resigned before or during an Impeachment trial arranged the VP (Pence) to grant a pardon, as President Ford as to Nixon.
To me the pardon and communication powers of the President need to be revised, likely by a Constitutional Amendment, to better define and limit potential abuse such as presented by Trump. We cannot let a President become a dictator and rule by fiat.
 
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seb146
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Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:27 pm

Is anyone else frightened by "I can do what I want with no penalty" mentality of the orange menace? I mean, seriously? No one is frightened over his thinking? He is saying he is above the law. That he is greater than the Constitution. How is no one frightened of this? Stalin and Hitler and Kim Jung-un thought they were above the law, too. This guy needs to go. Not tomorrow, not next week but today. Now.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:30 pm

seb146 wrote:
Is anyone else frightened by "I can do what I want with no penalty" mentality of the orange menace? I mean, seriously? No one is frightened over his thinking? He is saying he is above the law. That he is greater than the Constitution. How is no one frightened of this? Stalin and Hitler and Kim Jung-un thought they were above the law, too. This guy needs to go. Not tomorrow, not next week but today. Now.


The US Congress is the only institution who could actually make him resign right? His idea's and implementations bring America and the world a step back, instead of forward, that will be his legacy. The institutions of America are strong, so America's democracy can survive four years of Trump.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:39 pm

seb146 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Is anyone else frightened by "I can do what I want with no penalty" mentality of the orange menace? I mean, seriously? No one is frightened over his thinking? He is saying he is above the law. That he is greater than the Constitution. How is no one frightened of this? Stalin and Hitler and Kim Jung-un thought they were above the law, too. This guy needs to go. Not tomorrow, not next week but today. Now.


The US Congress is the only institution who could actually make him resign right? His idea's and implementations bring America and the world a step back, instead of forward, that will be his legacy. The institutions of America are strong, so America's democracy can survive four years of Trump.


I am praying to every deity I can think of that he will be removed after the mid-term elections this November so we will not have to put up with this circus. At least under Obama and GWB, we were debating actual policy and history and intelligent things, instead of racing to the bottom.....


From an outsider, I would have thought if he were going to be removed from office, the Republicans in Congress would have done so before summer 2018, because then it could have a positive effect on the midterm elections in November, but he is still here and no one is jumping on the impeachment wagon.
So I guess he will sit out this term of office.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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seb146
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Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:40 pm

Dutchy wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Is anyone else frightened by "I can do what I want with no penalty" mentality of the orange menace? I mean, seriously? No one is frightened over his thinking? He is saying he is above the law. That he is greater than the Constitution. How is no one frightened of this? Stalin and Hitler and Kim Jung-un thought they were above the law, too. This guy needs to go. Not tomorrow, not next week but today. Now.


The US Congress is the only institution who could actually make him resign right? His idea's and implementations bring America and the world a step back, instead of forward, that will be his legacy. The institutions of America are strong, so America's democracy can survive four years of Trump.


I am praying to every deity I can think of that he will be removed after the mid-term elections this November so we will not have to put up with this circus. At least under Obama and GWB, we were debating actual policy and history and intelligent things, instead of racing to the bottom.....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Flighty
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Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:19 pm

2122M wrote:
I don't know if you are serious or trolling, but even if you are joking there are a great number of people out there that have allowed themselves to believe this. It really is amazing how Trump has convinced the 'freedom loving' right that allowing him unchecked power with no oversight and no compromise is the best thing for America.

Can you imagine the pure indignation the right would express if Clinton had won and hinted that she no longer had to answer to the rule of law? You think the "Lock Her Up" crowd would have just shrugged and said, "well, she's the president now so there is nothing that can be done."?


Let me make this really simple. Yes, it's TRUE Trump controls the Executive Branch of the US government. As the elected commander in chief of the Executive Branch, it is actually essential that he be in control. Otherwise, we could have a Deep State that elected officials, and voters, can't control. That is not what we have.

If Trump does anything generally outrageous (high crime), it is the Legislative - not the Executive - powers of investigation and prosecution that would properly be brought to bear.

Trump is correct that he has total command of DOJ, FBI, and other similar bodies that are (to state redundantly) under his direct personal command. This is basic civics and doesn't even rise to the level of law school. It doesn't mean people will agree with these facts or enjoy them.
 
2122M
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Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:31 pm

Flighty wrote:
2122M wrote:
I don't know if you are serious or trolling, but even if you are joking there are a great number of people out there that have allowed themselves to believe this. It really is amazing how Trump has convinced the 'freedom loving' right that allowing him unchecked power with no oversight and no compromise is the best thing for America.

Can you imagine the pure indignation the right would express if Clinton had won and hinted that she no longer had to answer to the rule of law? You think the "Lock Her Up" crowd would have just shrugged and said, "well, she's the president now so there is nothing that can be done."?


Let me make this really simple. Yes, it's TRUE Trump controls the Executive Branch of the US government. As the elected commander in chief of the Executive Branch, it is actually essential that he be in control. Otherwise, we could have a Deep State that elected officials, and voters, can't control. That is not what we have.

If Trump does anything generally outrageous (high crime), it is the Legislative - not the Executive - powers of investigation and prosecution that would properly be brought to bear.

Trump is correct that he has total command of DOJ, FBI, and other similar bodies that are (to state redundantly) under his direct personal command. This is basic civics and doesn't even rise to the level of law school. It doesn't mean people will agree with these facts or enjoy them.


Nothing to do with what I was saying, but cool story anyway.

The OP said Trump is the "ultimate authority". This is not true. The whole system is designed so there is no "ultimate authority". Yet legions of Trump supporters believe he should be the "ultimate authority" and not have to answer for any crimes or be subject to any investigation. This is the least patriotic stance I can imagine an American taking. If he's innocent, relax and trust the system to find him innocent. If he's guilty, wouldn't you want that to be discovered?
 
jetero
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Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:50 pm

Flighty wrote:
2122M wrote:
I don't know if you are serious or trolling, but even if you are joking there are a great number of people out there that have allowed themselves to believe this. It really is amazing how Trump has convinced the 'freedom loving' right that allowing him unchecked power with no oversight and no compromise is the best thing for America.

Can you imagine the pure indignation the right would express if Clinton had won and hinted that she no longer had to answer to the rule of law? You think the "Lock Her Up" crowd would have just shrugged and said, "well, she's the president now so there is nothing that can be done."?


Let me make this really simple. Yes, it's TRUE Trump controls the Executive Branch of the US government. As the elected commander in chief of the Executive Branch, it is actually essential that he be in control. Otherwise, we could have a Deep State that elected officials, and voters, can't control. That is not what we have.

If Trump does anything generally outrageous (high crime), it is the Legislative - not the Executive - powers of investigation and prosecution that would properly be brought to bear.

Trump is correct that he has total command of DOJ, FBI, and other similar bodies that are (to state redundantly) under his direct personal command. This is basic civics and doesn't even rise to the level of law school. It doesn't mean people will agree with these facts or enjoy them.


Well what a fool he is for not ending the investigation!
 
Flighty
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Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:52 pm

2122M wrote:
Flighty wrote:
2122M wrote:
I don't know if you are serious or trolling, but even if you are joking there are a great number of people out there that have allowed themselves to believe this. It really is amazing how Trump has convinced the 'freedom loving' right that allowing him unchecked power with no oversight and no compromise is the best thing for America.

Can you imagine the pure indignation the right would express if Clinton had won and hinted that she no longer had to answer to the rule of law? You think the "Lock Her Up" crowd would have just shrugged and said, "well, she's the president now so there is nothing that can be done."?


Let me make this really simple. Yes, it's TRUE Trump controls the Executive Branch of the US government. As the elected commander in chief of the Executive Branch, it is actually essential that he be in control. Otherwise, we could have a Deep State that elected officials, and voters, can't control. That is not what we have.

If Trump does anything generally outrageous (high crime), it is the Legislative - not the Executive - powers of investigation and prosecution that would properly be brought to bear.

Trump is correct that he has total command of DOJ, FBI, and other similar bodies that are (to state redundantly) under his direct personal command. This is basic civics and doesn't even rise to the level of law school. It doesn't mean people will agree with these facts or enjoy them.


Nothing to do with what I was saying, but cool story anyway.

The OP said Trump is the "ultimate authority". This is not true. The whole system is designed so there is no "ultimate authority". Yet legions of Trump supporters believe he should be the "ultimate authority" and not have to answer for any crimes or be subject to any investigation. This is the least patriotic stance I can imagine an American taking. If he's innocent, relax and trust the system to find him innocent. If he's guilty, wouldn't you want that to be discovered?


No, I think I did bring up the central issue. Many media sources are implying (falsely) that Trump can't or shouldn't manage and supervise the DOJ and FBI. They are intentionally implying the falsehood that DOJ is part of the Judicial branch, and it would be improper of Trump to interfere. My dad was just telling me this last night. But it's false! Trump is constitutionally the manager of the DOJ, FBI, CIA, DEA, etc.

I don't think any Trump supporters believe he is the commander of Judicial or Legislative branches. Or if they do, that is foolish.
 
CCGPV
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Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:57 pm

Flighty wrote:
2122M wrote:
Flighty wrote:

Let me make this really simple. Yes, it's TRUE Trump controls the Executive Branch of the US government. As the elected commander in chief of the Executive Branch, it is actually essential that he be in control. Otherwise, we could have a Deep State that elected officials, and voters, can't control. That is not what we have.

If Trump does anything generally outrageous (high crime), it is the Legislative - not the Executive - powers of investigation and prosecution that would properly be brought to bear.

Trump is correct that he has total command of DOJ, FBI, and other similar bodies that are (to state redundantly) under his direct personal command. This is basic civics and doesn't even rise to the level of law school. It doesn't mean people will agree with these facts or enjoy them.


Nothing to do with what I was saying, but cool story anyway.

The OP said Trump is the "ultimate authority". This is not true. The whole system is designed so there is no "ultimate authority". Yet legions of Trump supporters believe he should be the "ultimate authority" and not have to answer for any crimes or be subject to any investigation. This is the least patriotic stance I can imagine an American taking. If he's innocent, relax and trust the system to find him innocent. If he's guilty, wouldn't you want that to be discovered?


No, I think I did bring up the central issue. Many media sources are implying (falsely) that Trump can't or shouldn't manage and supervise the DOJ and FBI. They are intentionally implying the falsehood that DOJ is part of the Judicial branch, and it would be improper of Trump to interfere. My dad was just telling me this last night. But it's false! Trump is constitutionally the manager of the DOJ, FBI, CIA, DEA, etc.

I don't think any Trump supporters believe he is the commander of Judicial or Legislative branches. Or if they do, that is foolish.


Yes he has the authority to intervene but it doesn't look good for an innocent person to do that. Does he have the right to fire Mueller? Yes. But what does that look like to the average person? To me that looks like the action of a guilty person or someone with something to hide. The whole point of law enforcement and justice is independence and trust. If you violate that by firing everyone then you've lost.

Nobody is denying he can end the investigation but it looks very bad and he will lose what little credibility he has left.
Stay curious
 
2122M
Posts: 1317
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:00 pm

Flighty wrote:
2122M wrote:
Flighty wrote:

Let me make this really simple. Yes, it's TRUE Trump controls the Executive Branch of the US government. As the elected commander in chief of the Executive Branch, it is actually essential that he be in control. Otherwise, we could have a Deep State that elected officials, and voters, can't control. That is not what we have.

If Trump does anything generally outrageous (high crime), it is the Legislative - not the Executive - powers of investigation and prosecution that would properly be brought to bear.

Trump is correct that he has total command of DOJ, FBI, and other similar bodies that are (to state redundantly) under his direct personal command. This is basic civics and doesn't even rise to the level of law school. It doesn't mean people will agree with these facts or enjoy them.


Nothing to do with what I was saying, but cool story anyway.

The OP said Trump is the "ultimate authority". This is not true. The whole system is designed so there is no "ultimate authority". Yet legions of Trump supporters believe he should be the "ultimate authority" and not have to answer for any crimes or be subject to any investigation. This is the least patriotic stance I can imagine an American taking. If he's innocent, relax and trust the system to find him innocent. If he's guilty, wouldn't you want that to be discovered?


No, I think I did bring up the central issue. Many media sources are implying (falsely) that Trump can't or shouldn't manage and supervise the DOJ and FBI. They are intentionally implying the falsehood that DOJ is part of the Judicial branch, and it would be improper of Trump to interfere. My dad was just telling me this last night. But it's false! Trump is constitutionally the manager of the DOJ, FBI, CIA, DEA, etc.

I don't think any Trump supporters believe he is the commander of Judicial or Legislative branches. Or if they do, that is foolish.


There is no implication that Trump is not the head of the executive branch, just the truth that historically speaking, and for very good reason, the president has allowed the DOJ and other law enforcement agencies to operate without direct guidance or oversight by the president himself. This was done specifically to avoid the possibility or even appearance of the president using law enforcement for political gain.

And I think some Trump supporters believe he should be commander of the Judicial and Legislative branches, and yes, that is very foolish.
 
bennett123
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Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:09 pm

If he committed a crime, who would investigate the crime and who would bring charges.

Presumably it would be the FBI/CIA/DEA and DOJ.
 
Flighty
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Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:18 pm

bennett123 wrote:
If he committed a crime, who would investigate the crime and who would bring charges.

Presumably it would be the FBI/CIA/DEA and DOJ.


This is a great question, and AFAIK the answer is Congress. That is why they set up the Impeachment process, to investigate any crimes the president may be doing.

It would be a conflict of interest for the FBI to investigate the president. He is their boss. Anyhow, if the FBI does not answer to an elected government, we have a problem. And we do have that problem. The FBI (and other bureaus) must answer to him.

This whole thing about tradition, norms etc seems a little bit queer, given that it isn't based on any laws. The laws are clear enough - Congress can investigate and prosecute the President if necessary. And maybe it is necessary. That's all anticipated by the Constitution.
 
2122M
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Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:24 pm

Flighty wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
If he committed a crime, who would investigate the crime and who would bring charges.

Presumably it would be the FBI/CIA/DEA and DOJ.


This is a great question, and AFAIK the answer is Congress. That is why they set up the Impeachment process, to investigate any crimes the president may be doing.

It would be a conflict of interest for the FBI to investigate the president. He is their boss. Anyhow, if the FBI does not answer to an elected government, we have a problem. And we do have that problem. The FBI (and other bureaus) must answer to him.

This whole thing about tradition, norms etc seems a little bit queer, given that it isn't based on any laws. The laws are clear enough - Congress can investigate and prosecute the President if necessary. And maybe it is necessary. That's all anticipated by the Constitution.


In the event congress wants to look into crimes committed by the president, who do they reach out to? Elected officials are not law enforcement agents. If you need to conduct an investigation, who is qualified to do so?

The answer is, the DOJ and the FBI.

That is why there is a historical separation between the president and the DOJ, no matter how (and I can't believe you used this word for it) "queer" you think it is.

Under your system, no-one that could investigate the president is qualified to conduct an investigation. Bad idea....
 
jetero
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Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:26 pm

Flighty wrote:
It would be a conflict of interest for the FBI to investigate the president. He is their boss. Anyhow, if the FBI does not answer to an elected government, we have a problem. And we do have that problem. The FBI (and other bureaus) must answer to him.


That is patently absurd.

By that standard the federal law enforcement agencies arguably couldn't investigate any one in the executive branch, nor the president's family, nor a whole laundry list of individuals and organizations with which the president has conflicts of interest.

Congress created the independent counsel legislation specifically for instances such as these.
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:58 pm

jetero wrote:
Flighty wrote:
It would be a conflict of interest for the FBI to investigate the president. He is their boss. Anyhow, if the FBI does not answer to an elected government, we have a problem. And we do have that problem. The FBI (and other bureaus) must answer to him.


That is patently absurd.

By that standard the federal law enforcement agencies arguably couldn't investigate any one in the executive branch, nor the president's family, nor a whole laundry list of individuals and organizations with which the president has conflicts of interest.

Congress created the independent counsel legislation specifically for instances such as these.


You're right and I am painfully obviously not a lawyer. If the president forces those organizations to improperly help his friends or family, Congress should impeach and convict him of crimes, removing him from office. How they investigate, I would assume Congress has people and budget to handle it. The president has a responsibility not to be corrupt. Can agencies investigate his friends, hell yes, and he shouldn't interfere improperly. He CAN interfere properly. So that is kind of the issue.

If Congress has a problem with how he uses his discretion (or indeed if this is criminal) then they should impeach and convict him, removing him from office.

In the article I read, Robert Mueller is neither OSC nor OIC. He is just a guy appointed under the general authority of the attorney general, who is a member of Trump's cabinet. Anyway I find suggestions that Trump cannot tell the Attorney General what to do silly. He is the law enforcement officer in chief.
Anyway I said all I care to say and more so I will shut up now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... al_Counsel
 
jetero
Posts: 4673
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:02 pm

Flighty wrote:
jetero wrote:
Flighty wrote:
It would be a conflict of interest for the FBI to investigate the president. He is their boss. Anyhow, if the FBI does not answer to an elected government, we have a problem. And we do have that problem. The FBI (and other bureaus) must answer to him.


That is patently absurd.

By that standard the federal law enforcement agencies arguably couldn't investigate any one in the executive branch, nor the president's family, nor a whole laundry list of individuals and organizations with which the president has conflicts of interest.

Congress created the independent counsel legislation specifically for instances such as these.


You're right and I am painfully obviously not a lawyer. If the president forces those organizations to improperly help his friends or family, Congress should impeach and convict him of crimes, removing him from office. How they investigate, I would assume Congress has people and budget to handle it. The president has a responsibility not to be corrupt. Can agencies investigate his friends, hell yes, and he shouldn't interfere improperly. He CAN interfere properly. So that is kind of the issue.

If Congress has a problem with how he uses his discretion (or indeed if this is criminal) then they should impeach and convict him, removing him from office.

In the article I read, Robert Mueller is neither OSC nor OIC. He is just a guy appointed under the general authority of the attorney general, who is a member of Trump's cabinet. Anyway I find suggestions that Trump cannot tell the Attorney General what to do silly. He is the law enforcement officer in chief.
Anyway I said all I care to say and more so I will shut up now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... al_Counsel


In fairness this is where I will say I was wrong. OIC legislation expired and was replaced by regulatory procedures.

In any case the whole purpose of the investigation is to provide a report to Congress, which only they can choose to act on (and likely won't for political reasons). The investigation itself will not result in any charges.

No one is saying Trump can't tell the Attorney General what to do. But it's only if you believe the nonsense Trump's lawyers are throwing out, i.e., that the president can't obstruct justice, that you think he can do so without consequence.
 
User avatar
bgm
Posts: 2430
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:37 am

Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:03 pm

AA747123 wrote:
Trump can pardon himself in the illegal unconstitutional "Russia witch hunt". Trump really needs to pull up his pants on this one and fire Muller and close the investigation. Trump is the ultimate authority in this land.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/06 ... -that.html


Every time I read your posts, it just reaffirms my signature. Did you happen to do a lot of acid in the 60s? :bouncy:
If you hate wearing a mask, you’re really going to hate using a ventilator.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12844
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Trump can Pardon self

Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:10 pm

seb146 wrote:
I am praying to every deity I can think of that he will be removed after the mid-term elections this November so we will not have to put up with this circus. At least under Obama and GWB, we were debating actual policy and history and intelligent things, instead of racing to the bottom.....


You should know by now as a grown man praying doesn’t work.

There’s probably a better chance of Trump being assassinated than an impeachment. Put it this was if you were secret service would you take a bullet for Trump?

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