User avatar
CitizenJustin
Topic Author
Posts: 293
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:12 am

Do You Believe In Aliens

Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:56 pm

Since we have a ghost thread, I thought we should have an alien one.

I most certainly believe in life other than ours in the universe. I think it’s a bit arrogant to think we’re somehow special and the universe was made solely for us. The visible universe is about 93 billion LY across and that’s just what we can see! There’s much much more. Trillions of galaxies, containing trillions of stars, solar systems littered with planets, yah, there’s life out there. Otherwise, it would be a tremendous waste of space.

Due to the sheer size of the universe, I find it highly improbable that the earth is the only planet that can sustain multicellular life.

My hope is that we find proof before I die. I’ll be a happy lil’ camper.
 
CCGPV
Posts: 1292
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:18 pm

Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:02 am

I saw some aliens in San Diego once.
Stay curious
 
Cadet985
Posts: 2067
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2002 6:45 am

Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:17 am

CitizenJustin wrote:
Since we have a ghost thread, I thought we should have an alien one.

I most certainly believe in life other than ours in the universe. I think it’s a bit arrogant to think we’re somehow special and the universe was made solely for us. The visible universe is about 93 billion LY across and that’s just what we can see! There’s much much more. Trillions of galaxies, containing trillions of stars, solar systems littered with planets, yah, there’s life out there. Otherwise, it would be a tremendous waste of space.

Due to the sheer size of the universe, I find it highly improbable that the earth is the only planet that can sustain multicellular life.

My hope is that we find proof before I die. I’ll be a happy lil’ camper.


I very definitely believe not just in aliens, but in other forms of intelligent life. How can anyone state unequivocally that there is no intelligent life in the universe? We are discovering new plant, animal, and bacteria species on Earth all the time.

Don’t even get me started on the multiverse, other dimensions, etc.

If you take just the number of stars in the observable universe and figure how many of them have planets, then figure in the unobservable universe, the number is mind boggling.

I don’t think there’s any way we’re alone. I also believe extraterrestrials have visited, probably are still visiting, and that proof of their existence may be being covered up.

“The Truth is Out There”

Marc
 
salttee
Posts: 2470
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:24 am

It took Earth 4.5 billion years to spawn humans (not humanoids.)
It took those humans about 100,000 years to develop the technology to broadcast and receive signals on varying wavelengths.

Out of the trillions and trillions of planets out there for billions of years, how likely is it that other creatures have developed to being as smart as we are, and did it on exactly the same timetable? Notice that we have detected no coherent signal that indicates another advanced society.

There's a name for this paradox, but I forget that name.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 10424
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:40 am

Fermi's paradox

My answer is yes and no. Yes I believe there are advanced species out there, and no I don't believe they have visited.

Or they're applying rules about not interfering with the development of species not capable of interstellar travel.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 8186
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:50 am

Sure, why not? It could happen, it happened here.

But does it matter, that is another question. It is unlikely time or distance will cooperate with our discovering or meeting any. Sadly.

As to why we haven't detected any, what if the chance of reaching our level is one in a billion? That makes for 100-400 in our galaxy over a buncha-billion years across over a hundred thousand light years. And broadcasts? They are a trillion times weaker than a star's transmissions and we can't easily detect the small ones.

Image

Image

https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/univ ... smos15.htm

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
seb146
Posts: 17834
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:42 am

Tugger wrote:
Sure, why not? It could happen, it happened here.

But does it matter, that is another question. It is unlikely time or distance will cooperate with our discovering or meeting any. Sadly.

As to why we haven't detected any, what if the chance of reaching our level is one in a billion? That makes for 100-400 in our galaxy over a buncha-billion years across over a hundred thousand light years. And broadcasts? They are a trillion times weaker than a star's transmissions and we can't easily detect the small ones.

Image

Image

https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/univ ... smos15.htm

Tugg


The galaxy sure does look flat.... :wave:

Douglas Adams' explanation of the population, art, currency, and sex of the entire universe sums things up well.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
tommy1808
Posts: 8692
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:52 am

salttee wrote:
Notice that we have detected no coherent signal that indicates another advanced society.


which, when you think about it, is not all that surprising. Space is vast, we wouldn´t pick up even a TV transmitter from a really near by civilization, unless they put it on an interstellar spaceship and fly it to within a few single digit lightyears from earth. If you plug the numbers into a link budget formula, you see that even all the power on earth, transmitted and received with a Arecibo level dish, the range would be limited to a few light years.
On top of that, since we transfer more and more information wireless, we go to higher and higher frequencies and those have a hard enough time getting out of the atmosphere at all.

So unless a civilization is within maybe 10 LY or extremely powerful and deliberately targeting earth, we won´t know about them even if they run an active Seti like program with powerful transmissions, specifically to be detected.

Our best shot of detecting life out there is to find traces of gases in exoplanets atmosphere that can only be produced by living organisms.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
User avatar
TWA772LR
Posts: 6004
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:05 am

The trippy question is, are there other species out there, or are the species' of Earth the only organisms in the universe? I think mankind would be more shocked to find other colonies of Homo sapiens sapiens than those of little green men.
You know all is right is the world when the only thing people worry about is if the president had sex with a pornstar.


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 6521
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:22 am

I think it would indeed be pretty arrogant to think the earth is the only living planet. What would be so unique to earth to make it the only one which is habitual with billions if not trillions out there? Aliens visiting earth is a totally different matter, I am pretty skeptical about that one.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8014
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:46 am

We would be pretty arrogant to think that we are the only ‘intelligent’ planet in the entire universe.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
User avatar
BartSimpson
Posts: 450
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2016 5:01 pm

Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:21 am

salttee wrote:
... Notice that we have detected no coherent signal that indicates another advanced society.

...


Here's another essay on your comment from one of my favorite websites:

https://what-if.xkcd.com/47/
 
salttee
Posts: 2470
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:33 am

tommy1808 wrote:
which, when you think about it, is not all that surprising. Space is vast, we wouldn´t pick up even a TV transmitter from a really near by civilization, unless they put it on an interstellar spaceship and fly it to within a few single digit lightyears from earth. If you plug the numbers into a link budget formula, you see that even all the power on earth, transmitted and received with a Arecibo level dish, the range would be limited to a few light years.
I'm no astrophysicist, but I doubt this claim.

Here is a case where astronomers think it might be possible to see a planet 4 light years away with current technology. I assume they're talking about reflected visible light. So a transmitter on that planet should be able to push a signal that would be thousands of times more powerful than reflected light (I speculate).

The team also saw signs of a second potential planet around Proxima Centauri, a super-Earth with an orbit of between 60 and 500 days. If such an outer planet exists, it might be possible to observe it, says Tuomi.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg23130884-100-proxima-b-closest-earth-like-planet-discovered-right-next-door/
 
tommy1808
Posts: 8692
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:33 am

salttee wrote:
I'm no astrophysicist, but I doubt this claim.


Best part of google is that topics like this always already have someone that already plugged the numbers in. If you just do a quick scan, don´t miss that he is putting all the worlds power into the signal.:

https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com ... otice-them

Here is a case where astronomers think it might be possible to see a planet 4 light years away with current technology. I assume they're talking about reflected visible light. So a transmitter on that planet should be able to push a signal that would be thousands of times more powerful than reflected light (I speculate)./


Yeah, i guess people quite consistently underestimate how bright those reflections are. The Moon is actually pretty dark, its Albedo is only 0.12, it reflects only 12% of the incoming light. Yet for only 2 x 2 miles of it is reflecting about a Gigawatt of light. So a fairly small sized rock in Orbit about a sun like ours, at about the distance the earth has from it, reflects more light than most radio transmitters.
Earth has an average Albedo of about 0.3 and receives 1.74 x 10^17 of energy from the sun, and about 5.22 x 10^16, 52 quadrillion watts gets reflected into space. That is about 200 times the installed power capacity on this planet.

Also to take into consideration: for radio waves space is a very noisy place, for light space isn´t. That is why most of the sky is black when you look up at night, and also how Radio telescopes where invented, trying to figure out where all the god damn noise comes from no matter where you point your antenna.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 6559
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:44 am

I entertain the notion that there is another galaxy that harbors a planet capable of sustaining life and that some form of life does exist. Whether it's intelligent like humans or far more advanced is irrelevant. To confirm that there IS life somewhere else is enough to answer the question: it's not how intelligent it is; it's whether it exists at all.

Aliens like sci-fi...doubt it. And for all we know, the other planets may have different characteristics that allow its lifeforms to live in different environments.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
tommy1808
Posts: 8692
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:59 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
I entertain the notion that there is another galaxy that harbors a planet capable of sustaining life and that some form of life does exist. Whether it's intelligent like humans or far more advanced is irrelevant. To confirm that there IS life somewhere else is enough to answer the question: it's not how intelligent it is; it's whether it exists at all..


If we find traces of life anywhere else in the Solar system than earth, alive or extinct, life in the Universe will likely be widely prolific, if not, than the probability will shrink.

Considering how long life on earth needed to go from single cell to multicell, over 2.5 billion years, finding large, organized lumps of cells with brains my be somewhat rare.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 6559
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:22 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Considering how long life on earth needed to go from single cell to multicell, over 2.5 billion years, finding large, organized lumps of cells with brains my be somewhat rare.

But odds are that those other planets are also older than 2.5 billion years, and may have had a less turbulent past. The reason it took so long was due to the early bombardment of the inner planets, followed by a period where life itself couldn't exist due to the harsh environment. Add that the Sun was dimmer back then, and it's logical to understand why Earth took so long to be hospitable to life. Other solar systems may have been less turbulent and allowed for life to develop faster.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
tommy1808
Posts: 8692
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:04 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Other solar systems may have been less turbulent and allowed for life to develop faster.


As far as we understand how solar systems form, that should be more or less the same everywhere. The whole bombardment phase was "just" our planet clearing its neighborhood and just the end of the accretion phase. All stars will start off life less bright than in the middle of their lives, significantly bigger stars burn out fairly fast, and if more than 20% lighter than our sun, they will not even ignite.

A gravitationally locked moon may however be a fairly stable place on its planet facing side before the host planet is stable.
But that it took so long on earth could just be a longer than average time frame and other planets with other conditions offer more selection pressure favoring cooperation between cells.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
CCGPV
Posts: 1292
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:18 pm

Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:34 pm

I used to be convinced we weren't alone due to the sheer number of places where it could happen but the older I get the more I'm believing in the Fermi Paradox unfortunately.

Worst case would be to come across a dead civilization of some kind or an errant spacecraft from a few million years ago. What then?
Stay curious
 
tommy1808
Posts: 8692
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:51 pm

CCGPV wrote:
What then?


re-engineering galore.....

I used to be convinced we weren't alone due to the sheer number of places where it could happen but the older I get the more I'm believing in the Fermi Paradox unfortunately.


It isn´t really something to believe in or not. Maybe you like this read: https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1605/1605.09187.pdf

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
tommy1808
Posts: 8692
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:06 pm

Channex757 wrote:
Those universes could be literally on top of us and we wouldn't detect any kind of emissions whatsoever from them until they popped up. Then, we'd have to be incredibly lucky too..


Yup, we may be able to detect traces of other universes crashing into ours, and we are in fact looking for those.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
User avatar
Channex757
Posts: 1961
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:07 am

Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:07 pm

You can take this up a notch too.

We apparently inhabit a multiverse. Myriad different universes. In how many of those universes does life of some kind or other exist?

Then....in those universes has life advanced sufficiently that it has developed technology top cross into other universes? Those universes could be literally on top of us and we wouldn't detect any kind of emissions whatsoever from them until they popped up. Then, we'd have to be incredibly lucky too.

To suggest we are unique is breathtakingly arrogant when ther potential for life exists in so many places, and not all of them in our universe.
 
User avatar
fr8mech
Posts: 7282
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:38 pm

Channex757 wrote:
We apparently inhabit a multiverse.


Nope, I don’t buy that. I’m no astrophysicist, or theoretical astrophysicist, or fantasy author, but I don’t see that as an option. Personally, it’s a contrived notion to allow fantasy writers a convenient arc to pass characters and events from “our reality” to others. I’m rather surprised how many “smart” people do subscribe to this idea.

As to whether there is life, intelligent or not, somewhere else in the universe, I have no doubt of it. There are just too many posssibilities out there. The size of the universe, observable or not, conspires against Earth being the only habitable* planet. That Earth would be the only planet where life does form and evolve into something intelligent. That Earth would be the only planet where that intelligent life is intelligent enough to ask this very question.

* As defined by our notion of habitability. There may be other definitions of habitable that are incompatible with ours.

Now, have we been visited? I doubt it. It seems that the only folks ever visited are folks in rural America, who are unable to provide any evidence to support the claim.

Do people from other countries claim to have been visited, or is that a uniquely American experience?
When seconds count...the authorities are minutes away.
Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
You are not entitled to a public safe space.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 8692
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:52 pm

fr8mech wrote:
I’m rather surprised how many “smart” people do subscribe to this idea.


Probably only because you are not very, or not enough, interested in astrophysics. The simple crux of the matter is that, if our understanding of how our universe began is correct, then we had a phase of (spacial) inflation in the very, very early phase of the universe. We don't have any good idea how that inflation can be anything else but eternal. And that would automatically mean that we are just one universe in a space full of universes that expands with a rate of 10^29 times per second or so.

Physicists don't like the idea very much, because it would mean that we may not, even in principle, be able to understand all of physics.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 11522
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:15 pm

Dutchy wrote:
I think it would indeed be pretty arrogant to think the earth is the only living planet. What would be so unique to earth to make it the only one which is habitual with billions if not trillions out there? Aliens visiting earth is a totally different matter, I am pretty skeptical about that one.


I don’t see why if there are more advanced civilisations out there that they haven’t visited.
 
seb146
Posts: 17834
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:07 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
I think it would indeed be pretty arrogant to think the earth is the only living planet. What would be so unique to earth to make it the only one which is habitual with billions if not trillions out there? Aliens visiting earth is a totally different matter, I am pretty skeptical about that one.


I don’t see why if there are more advanced civilisations out there that they haven’t visited.


The surest sign there is intelligent life in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin

The idea of looking for broadcast signals from other planets is flawed, anyway, because of all of the noise from other stars, novae, black holes, pulsars, quasars, etc. If you listen to AM radio at night, you know what I mean. On the West Coast, one can hear at least one station on AM 660. But, others, too. If you have no reference, you don't know where that station is from and might confuse it for something close to you or the other stations in the background, because of how they all fade in and out.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
fr8mech
Posts: 7282
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:13 pm

    Kiwirob wrote:
    I don’t see why if there are more advanced civilisations out there that they haven’t visited.


    Does advanced automatically infer interstellar travel?

    Further, given the size of the known universe, how probable is it that our tiny blue speck would even catch some alien’s attention? Especially, if their reality of habitable and life are different from ours.
    When seconds count...the authorities are minutes away.
    Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
    You are not entitled to a public safe space.
     
    User avatar
    Tugger
    Posts: 8186
    Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

    Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

    Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:16 pm

    fr8mech wrote:
      Kiwirob wrote:
      I don’t see why if there are more advanced civilisations out there that they haven’t visited.


      Does advanced automatically infer interstellar travel?

      Further, given the size of the known universe, how probable is it that our tiny blue speck would even catch some alien’s attention? Especially, if their reality of habitable and life are different from ours.

      I was going to ask the same/similar: Why (or how) would they visit?

      If they could see/hear/detect from a distance we are likely already dead as a species (based on the size and scale of the universe).

      Tugg
      I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
       
      User avatar
      Dieuwer
      Posts: 274
      Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

      Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

      Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:37 pm

      Kiwirob wrote:
      Dutchy wrote:
      I think it would indeed be pretty arrogant to think the earth is the only living planet. What would be so unique to earth to make it the only one which is habitual with billions if not trillions out there? Aliens visiting earth is a totally different matter, I am pretty skeptical about that one.


      I don’t see why if there are more advanced civilisations out there that they haven’t visited.


      How often do you visit an ant-colony or play with dolphins...
       
      User avatar
      Channex757
      Posts: 1961
      Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:07 am

      Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

      Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:50 pm

      fr8mech wrote:
      Now, have we been visited? I doubt it. It seems that the only folks ever visited are folks in rural America, who are unable to provide any evidence to support the claim.

      Do people from other countries claim to have been visited, or is that a uniquely American experience?

      Hooooo boy have we got news for you....

      Russia. Leaves your country in the dust apparently for visits.Stalin was hugely paranoid and all such incidents were faithfully recorded. Their database is immense.

      Britain even had a government department to log the cases. Google the Rendlesham Forest incident for a joint UK-USA military visit incident.

      It was and still is a global phenomenon.
       
      ChrisKen
      Posts: 485
      Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:15 pm

      Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

      Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:11 pm

      Alien life, yes It's almost a certainly out there.

      Will we ever meet it, highly doubtful.
      Have any U.F.O sightings been little green men? 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% nope.
       
      User avatar
      Tugger
      Posts: 8186
      Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

      Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

      Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:28 pm

      I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
       
      Kiwirob
      Posts: 11522
      Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

      Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

      Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:01 pm

      fr8mech wrote:
        Kiwirob wrote:
        I don’t see why if there are more advanced civilisations out there that they haven’t visited.


        Does advanced automatically infer interstellar travel?

        Further, given the size of the known universe, how probable is it that our tiny blue speck would even catch some alien’s attention? Especially, if their reality of habitable and life are different from ours.


        Why not? We study things, we also got in boats thousands of years ago and went looking for new lands, why wouldn’t an advanced civilisation study us and explore our world like we have done??
         
        User avatar
        fr8mech
        Posts: 7282
        Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

        Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

        Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:35 pm

        Kiwirob wrote:
        Why not? We study things, we also got in boats thousands of years ago and went looking for new lands, why wouldn’t an advanced civilisation study us and explore our world like we have done??


        My point is, the size of the known and unknown universe, argues against an alien civilization even finding us, much less being able to travel the distance to get to us and “visit”.

        As for exploring our world, even though it’s a finite amount of space, we are hardly done. The oceans’ floors have barely been “touched” much less mapped and explored.
        When seconds count...the authorities are minutes away.
        Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
        You are not entitled to a public safe space.
         
        User avatar
        Channex757
        Posts: 1961
        Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:07 am

        Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

        Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:46 pm

        fr8mech wrote:
        Kiwirob wrote:
        Why not? We study things, we also got in boats thousands of years ago and went looking for new lands, why wouldn’t an advanced civilisation study us and explore our world like we have done??


        My point is, the size of the known and unknown universe, argues against an alien civilization even finding us, much less being able to travel the distance to get to us and “visit”.

        [/quote]
        All the more reason for us to get out there and colonise the Solar System for its resources, then put together some kind of mission to the nearer stars.

        It means the fear factor is dialled down that we might attract the wrong sort of notice.

        If there is nobody on the block locally, then it's ours to claim.
         
        rfields5421
        Posts: 5899
        Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

        Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

        Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:05 am

        As a person who firmly and without reservation believes in God, I don't expect to find non-human intelligent life in the universe. That is not to say I don't believe such life might exist.

        I see no conflict in Creation by God, and evolution. Frankly, I think people who want to limit God's power to create to just seven 24 hour days are a bit full of themselves. The ones who say the God cannot use the natural processes we see in action every day to shape this world, and that he can only have used XXX number or years, feel they are able to limit God's powers..

        I see nothing in the Bible that says that God could not have tried another time to create a more perfect race of humans. Then again, after how we turned out, he might have given up in disgust.

        But I do agree with fr8mech - given the size of the known universe, the odds of us or another civilization finding each other are almost impossible to comprehend.

        We might have the technology to colonize this solar system in a century or so. At the current rate, I doubt we can send a small ship to another solar system for 400-700 years. To actually travel far and fast enough to explore multiple solar systems - that will take a divine inspired person to discover a 'loop hole' in the laws of physics as we know them today.

        Maybe it is in God's plan that we will discover that 'warp drive' and discover other life.

        I'm just still pi$$ off that I could not take PanAm to the moon in 2001.
         
        tommy1808
        Posts: 8692
        Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

        Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

        Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:09 am

        Kiwirob wrote:
        Why not? We study things, we also got in boats thousands of years ago and went looking for new lands, why wouldn’t an advanced civilisation study us and explore our world like we have done??


        Because there are 100 Billion+ Stars in our galaxy and our puny little G-type main-sequence star is one of the most boring places to visit, unless you detect signs of life.

        And look at the kind of stars we "target" with plans for interstellar probes..... only those near by. There are just 8 Star Systems within 10 LY, and we only consider those.

        rfields5421 wrote:
        I see no conflict in Creation by God, and evolution. Frankly, I think people who want to limit God's power to create to just seven 24 hour days are a bit full of themselves. The ones who say the God cannot use the natural processes we see in action every day to shape this world, and that he can only have used XXX number or years, feel they are able to limit God's powers.


        God can´t even defeat iron chariots and is too incompetent to build a solar system that can do a calendar without leap days. God is a failed hypothesis. Now could there be a creator? Sure, some scientists may figure out how to make Universes.

        I see nothing in the Bible that says that God could not have tried another time to create a more perfect race of humans. Then again, after how we turned out, he might have given up in disgust.


        Yeah, he seems to be so sulky, it is just the same as if he didn´t even exist. But this is the wrong threat for any of this, this is a scientific threat, you know, where everything works better when you assume there is not god.

        But I do agree with fr8mech - given the size of the known universe, the odds of us or another civilization finding each other are almost impossible to comprehend.


        We can comprehend fairly large number, problem is we don´t know which number it is.

        We might have the technology to colonize this solar system in a century or so


        we had that in the 70´s, the whole "where to go after the moon" thing created plenty of engineering, feasibility and return on investment studies. Could have been done.

        At the current rate, I doubt we can send a small ship to another solar system for 400-700 years. To actually travel far and fast enough to explore multiple solar systems - that will take a divine inspired person to discover a 'loop hole' in the laws of physics as we know them today.


        We already have ideas already, and physics doesn´t have loop holes, only stuff we don´t understand about physics.

        I'm just still pi$$ off that I could not take PanAm to the moon in 2001.


        or Pan Am, period.

        best regars
        Thomas
        This Singature is a safe space......
         
        Flyerfry
        Posts: 11
        Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:41 am

        Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

        Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:28 am

        I agree with the author and believe in aliens. You're saying the right thing.
         
        User avatar
        LockheedBBD
        Posts: 538
        Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 6:59 pm

        Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

        Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:08 am

        I don't really believe that we have been visited by extraterrestrials, I would need to see it with my own eyes to believe it.

        Anyways, one interesting story I read about recently,

        The Brazilian military recorded a "UFO" incident at some village. They visited the village and witnessed it themselves. They believed that it was the Soviet's doing at the time. If the official story is to be believed, villagers were getting "zapped" and burned from "rays" emmitted from some type of aircraft.


        From Wikipedia:
        The Colares flap refers to an outbreak of UFO sightings that occurred in 1977 on the Brazilian island of Colares. During the outbreak, the UFOs allegedly attacked the citizens with intense beams of radiation that left burn marks and puncture wounds. These sightings led to the Brazilian government dispatching a team to investigate under the codename Operation Saucer (Portuguese: Prato, see below), but the government later recalled the team and classified the files until the late 1990s.


        Precedent events
        In 1977, numerous UFOs were reported in the Brazilian city of Colares, Pará. UFOlogists claimed that lights in the sky fired beams at people,[4][6] supposedly causing injuries and sucking blood from 400 individuals.[3] Local residents claimed that scars on their bodies were caused by the lights in the sky, and named the lights "Chupa Chupa"[3] (literally Sucker-Sucker).[7] Believing it would keep the lights away, residents of Colares organized night vigils[2] lit fires, and ignited fireworks.[4] Mayor José Ildone Favacho Soeiro requested help from the Air Force.[8]

        The Operation
        The operation was commanded by Captain Uyrangê Bolivar Soares Nogueira de Hollanda Lima.[3] During late 1977, several pictures of lights were recorded but the military remained skeptical.[9][2][3] After approximately four months, the operation was closed after finding no unusual phenomena.[1] The official documents can be obtained from the Brazilian National Archives (Arquivo Nacional).[10]
         
        Kiwirob
        Posts: 11522
        Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

        Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

        Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:31 am

        Since there’s an unlimited number of planets out there is stands to reason there are likely millions that can sustain some form of life, potentially life that may very well be significantly more advanced than us, but we don’t have a clue either way.
         
        User avatar
        ER757
        Posts: 3065
        Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 am

        Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

        Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:25 pm

        I believe there is life elsewhere in the Cosmos, it would be hard to fathom that it couldn't have developed elsewhere as well as here. There is probably intelligent life elsewhere as well. While our circumstances are fairly unique (all the things that had to come together for life to get this far here), the sheer numbers of star systems out there, around a septillion or so, would make it likely even it it happened only one in a trillion times.
        Now, I have serious doubts that they've ever visited Earth. As others have pointed out, the vastness of space versus our minute size make us virtually invisible. But let's expand on this for a minute. Let's say there is an advanced civilization in the Andromeda galaxy and let's say they are a million years ahead of us technologically - they still wouldn't know of humans' existence since we've only been vocal (radio signals) for about 100 years. In addition, until someone can prove that the speed of light isn't the cosmic speed limit it's just conjecture that interstellar travel is even possible. The closer you get to the speed of light, the more your man increases, the more energy it takes to propel you etc, - physics is a bitch
        I would not be at all surprised if simple lifeforms are discovered on the ice moons of Saturn and Jupiter once we send probes there that are able to penetrate the ice and reach the liquid oceans beneath. But finding intelligent species in the universe? - not so much
         
        Airstud
        Posts: 4052
        Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2000 11:57 am

        Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

        Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:29 am

        CitizenJustin wrote:
        trillions of stars, solar systems littered with planets, yah, there’s life out there. Otherwise, it would be a tremendous waste of space.


        How is "waste of space" ruled out as a possible reality? That there's a planet dominated by humans seems to give it tenability...
        Pancakes are delicious.
         
        Airstud
        Posts: 4052
        Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2000 11:57 am

        Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

        Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:30 am

        CitizenJustin wrote:
        trillions of stars, solar systems littered with planets, yah, there’s life out there. Otherwise, it would be a tremendous waste of space.


        How did you rule out "waste of space" as a possible reality? That there's a planet dominated by humans gives it tenability...
        Last edited by Airstud on Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
        Pancakes are delicious.
         
        treetreeseven
        Posts: 267
        Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:18 am

        Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

        Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:49 am

        My bet: worlds full of bacterial mats are common, worlds with complex multicellular life are very rare.

        You all are discussing the Drake Equation in various roundabout ways when talking about the probability of intelligent life.

        When asking "why isn't anybody on the other end when we listen to the radio," there is the idea of Great Filters - highly improbable sets of conditions which occur quite rarely and are required for technology-using life to persist. There could be many of these, some we've already surpassed (the jump from single-celled to multicellular life) and some as-yet unknown (whether we'll survive the level of ecological devastation we are causing to our only home).

        The longest leap life took on Earth was the transition from prokaryotic life (simple cells) to eukaryotic life (complex cells). Every subsequent leap has taken progressively less time, which is somewhat interesting. And all the evidence appearing these days suggests that Earth may have had bacterial mats *very* soon after the surface was cool enough to support liquid water. Either way, it took longer to go from simple cells to complex cells, than it took to go from no cells to cells. I suspect we may find some evidence of microbial life on Mars, and if that's the case, some of it will surely still be alive in the cracks, which vastly complicates any idea of colonizing it, even though Martian microbes wouldn't be opposing us with laser guns etc.
         
        treetreeseven
        Posts: 267
        Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:18 am

        Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

        Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:10 am

        Examples of things that make Earth both unusual to some degree, and more hospitable to life:

        * Type of star. Our sun is fairly common, but stars like red dwarfs are way *more* common, and are less hospitable to life as they tend to be less stable, randomly cooking their very close-orbiting planets from time to time with huge bursts of radiation. Our sun is reeeeally stable by comparison and there were still crop failures and famines during the "little ice age" just a couple hundred years ago when all the sunspots disappeared and it flickered a bit.
        * Distance from star. Most of you have heard this one, since if you go too far out it's too cold for water (Mars, at least nowadays) and too close in it's too hot for water (Venus). However, positing life that uses ammonia as a solvent or even hydrocarbons like on Titan, I personally suspect that if animal life evolved in such conditions, it would think and move more slowly simply because chemical reactions are much slower at the temperatures which support using ammonia or hydrocarbon solvents. I'm not sure if there's some minimum "speed limit" for intelligent life (in terms of thinking or locomotion speed) but if so, life in very cold environments may be below it.
        * Plate tectonics. Earth sheds radioactive decay heat in part via plate tectonics and slow, steady volcanism. Our imaging of Venus, which is almost the same size as Earth, indicates that Venus may do so via catastrophic meltdowns of large swaths of the planet's surface every few hundred million years.
        * Magnetic field. This keeps our atmosphere stable and keeps us from getting fried by the radiation our stable and reliable sun does emit. This also generally puts a lower size limit on planets, because if they are too small (Mars) their core will cool and solidify faster, which shuts off the magnetic field, which among other things causes the atmosphere to be stripped off over time.
        * The moon. Our moon is actually VERY unusual, Pluto's moon is the only one weirder in terms of relative size. It's thought that the Moon may be favorable to life by tidal forces on the ocean helping to regulate planetary temperature in a way I don't fully understand. Only such a large and close moon could do this, and just looking at our own solar system it's clear that we (and Pluto) are outliers in that respect.

        There are others. Some of these aren't that much of a narrowing influence, but when you start to stack them together you see how the probability of intelligent life can get small, fast. Take one or two or three of these out and maybe simple life is still easy, but the planet is too unstable for multicellular life to persist and specialize to the point where technology is a possibility.
         
        User avatar
        DL717
        Posts: 473
        Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 10:53 pm

        Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

        Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:24 am

        If there’s life somewhere else or even if there isn’t, wouldn’t we be aliens to any place we are able to visit in the future therefore proving there are aliens?

        My guess is no. Too many things have to be absolutely perfect to sustain life.
        Everything is chits and giggles until you get old enough to giggle and then you chit.
         
        User avatar
        fr8mech
        Posts: 7282
        Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

        Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

        Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:59 am

        DL717 wrote:
        Too many things have to be absolutely perfect to sustain life.


        Life as we understand it. I've always heard/read that we (Earthlings) are "carbon-based" lifeforms. What if there are other types of life-forms, based on some other element, like nitrogen or silicon? Would the same planetary/solar conditions need to be met and be "perfect", or would be looking at another set of variables that had to be perfect?
        When seconds count...the authorities are minutes away.
        Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
        You are not entitled to a public safe space.
         
        na
        Posts: 9579
        Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

        Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

        Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:18 pm

        With the existence of myriads of Galaxies with millions or billions of Stars and planets each I am pretty sure there are, and were Aliens. Maybe even thousands of different systems on different planets.
        But I believe they all are so far away we´ll never meet them as their planets are millions and billions of light years away, and that most of them existed hundreds of millions of years ago and are extinct already.
        Maybe some day Aliens have visited Earth or will do so. But I am 99,999% sure it was or will be millions of years before or after humans exist or existed here.
         
        GDB
        Posts: 13041
        Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

        Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

        Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:16 pm

        treetreeseven wrote:
        Examples of things that make Earth both unusual to some degree, and more hospitable to life:

        * Type of star. Our sun is fairly common, but stars like red dwarfs are way *more* common, and are less hospitable to life as they tend to be less stable, randomly cooking their very close-orbiting planets from time to time with huge bursts of radiation. Our sun is reeeeally stable by comparison and there were still crop failures and famines during the "little ice age" just a couple hundred years ago when all the sunspots disappeared and it flickered a bit.
        * Distance from star. Most of you have heard this one, since if you go too far out it's too cold for water (Mars, at least nowadays) and too close in it's too hot for water (Venus). However, positing life that uses ammonia as a solvent or even hydrocarbons like on Titan, I personally suspect that if animal life evolved in such conditions, it would think and move more slowly simply because chemical reactions are much slower at the temperatures which support using ammonia or hydrocarbon solvents. I'm not sure if there's some minimum "speed limit" for intelligent life (in terms of thinking or locomotion speed) but if so, life in very cold environments may be below it.
        * Plate tectonics. Earth sheds radioactive decay heat in part via plate tectonics and slow, steady volcanism. Our imaging of Venus, which is almost the same size as Earth, indicates that Venus may do so via catastrophic meltdowns of large swaths of the planet's surface every few hundred million years.
        * Magnetic field. This keeps our atmosphere stable and keeps us from getting fried by the radiation our stable and reliable sun does emit. This also generally puts a lower size limit on planets, because if they are too small (Mars) their core will cool and solidify faster, which shuts off the magnetic field, which among other things causes the atmosphere to be stripped off over time.
        * The moon. Our moon is actually VERY unusual, Pluto's moon is the only one weirder in terms of relative size. It's thought that the Moon may be favorable to life by tidal forces on the ocean helping to regulate planetary temperature in a way I don't fully understand. Only such a large and close moon could do this, and just looking at our own solar system it's clear that we (and Pluto) are outliers in that respect.

        There are others. Some of these aren't that much of a narrowing influence, but when you start to stack them together you see how the probability of intelligent life can get small, fast. Take one or two or three of these out and maybe simple life is still easy, but the planet is too unstable for multicellular life to persist and specialize to the point where technology is a possibility.


        I would agree with all of that, adding that it also helps if a solar system has a nice big gas giant, in the right place, that allows it's big gravity well to take the hits fromm many comets and asteroids that might otherwise had headed to the inner solar system. A comet hit Jupiter in 1994, we saw what happens when one got through that was big enough, 65 million years ago.
        So while I agree that primitive life is common, advanced technical ones, much less so. The base numbers are huge but for advanced life, they shrink a whole lot. Which also means further away, so even less chance of us ever knowing.

        As for UFO's, odd how they really started to appear around the same time as jet aviation and rockets, in a culture starting to be immersed in Sci Fi as a result.
         
        Jalap
        Posts: 433
        Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:25 pm

        Re: Do You Believe In Aliens

        Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:03 pm

        Kiwirob wrote:
        Why not? We study things, we also got in boats thousands of years ago and went looking for new lands, why wouldn’t an advanced civilisation study us and explore our world like we have done??

        If they studied us, the conclusion would be we best be avoided.

        Alien life capable of interstellar travel would definitely explore and study us. If this isn’t happening that’s either because insterstellar travel just isn’t possible, or no intelligent lifeform is capable of getting this advanced without self-destructing.

        Now imagine a species capable of interstellar travel while not self-destructing in war, then I’m pretty certain that they would conclude that mankind is a hostile species best contained on earth till it self-destructs.

        If you doubt this argument, just imagine a meeting between this advanced alien and Trump or Putin.
        Case closed.

        Who is online

        Users browsing this forum: anrec80, BlueberryWheats, bombayduck, Cadet985, D L X, JJJ and 24 guests

        Popular Searches On Airliners.net

        Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

        Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

        Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

        Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

        Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

        Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

        Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

        Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

        Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

        Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

        Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

        Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

        Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

        Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

        Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos