MaverickM11
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US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:21 am

Anthony Bourdain and Kate Spade may make the headlines but the underlying trend is even more alarming, especially in some of these states where it's up over 50%

Image

http://www.businessinsider.com/anthony- ... sts-2018-6
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
jetero
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:44 am

Mav, love you buddy, but Business Insider?

Number of suicides may be up by 50% (that’s believable enough, but highly questionable based on the data set) but there is no way the suicide rate is up by 50%.

Again we go down a route of opinions when it’s hopeless to think that people can even understand what the numbers mean.
 
jetero
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:50 am

And I just made an effort to verify the numbers and find myself proven wrong.

Hello mouth, insert foot.
 
WIederling
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:17 am

jetero wrote:
And I just made an effort to verify the numbers and find myself proven wrong.

Hello mouth, insert foot.


There is a caveat in that you have to overlay the regional rates with the rise.
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/usa/ ... /by-state/

Looks like the high increase states are also the high in absolute numbers states.
What is so terrible about "living in fly over country"?
Murphy is an optimist
 
MaverickM11
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:14 am

jetero wrote:
And I just made an effort to verify the numbers and find myself proven wrong.

Hello mouth, insert foot.

Yah it's Business Insider but the data are from the CDC and corroborated elsewhere, and the map was pretty, all things considered
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:58 pm

One explanation I heard is this period includes 2008 GFC and start of Opioid epidemic. Haven't studied the data myself.
 
CCGPV
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:11 pm

This is the real source for most gun violence in the USA.
Stay curious
 
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Jouhou
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:39 pm

We don't take care of mental health in the US. It's as simple as that.
 
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DL717
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:45 pm

WIederling wrote:
jetero wrote:
And I just made an effort to verify the numbers and find myself proven wrong.

Hello mouth, insert foot.


There is a caveat in that you have to overlay the regional rates with the rise.
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/usa/ ... /by-state/

Looks like the high increase states are also the high in absolute numbers states.
What is so terrible about "living in fly over country"?


Population growth.
Everything is chits and giggles until you get old enough to giggle and then you chit.
 
jetero
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:00 pm

DL717 wrote:
WIederling wrote:
jetero wrote:
And I just made an effort to verify the numbers and find myself proven wrong.

Hello mouth, insert foot.


There is a caveat in that you have to overlay the regional rates with the rise.
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/usa/ ... /by-state/

Looks like the high increase states are also the high in absolute numbers states.
What is so terrible about "living in fly over country"?


Population growth.


Nope, it’s the rate.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:16 pm

jetero wrote:
DL717 wrote:
WIederling wrote:

There is a caveat in that you have to overlay the regional rates with the rise.
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/usa/ ... /by-state/

Looks like the high increase states are also the high in absolute numbers states.
What is so terrible about "living in fly over country"?


Population growth.


Nope, it’s the rate.


Flyover country would be completely depopulated if we had spare housing in the booming cities...
 
WIederling
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:46 pm

Jouhou wrote:
We don't take care of mental health in the US. It's as simple as that.


Isn't the US the country where everybody and his(her?) pet has a shrink?
Murphy is an optimist
 
luckyone
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:46 pm

WIederling wrote:
jetero wrote:
And I just made an effort to verify the numbers and find myself proven wrong.

Hello mouth, insert foot.


There is a caveat in that you have to overlay the regional rates with the rise.
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/usa/ ... /by-state/

Looks like the high increase states are also the high in absolute numbers states.
What is so terrible about "living in fly over country"?

The biggest answer is substance use. The drug problem in flyover country is quite high, particularly meth and opioids. There's an term called "Suicide Tuesday," wherein someone goes on a weekend binge, after which the brain's neurotransmitters are so dysregulated that people crash into a deep depression.
Then in no particular order...
Geographic isolation.
Geographic isolation in an era where information spreads like wildfire, so you're even more aware of how geographically isolated you are, and the differences between where you live and elsewhere is highlighted.
Lack of perceived opportunities in geographically isolated area, and a rural culture that doesn't encourage diversity of experience, and a lack of perception that you can get out.
Several of those states are experiencing economic decline, and population exodus. South Carolina is an outlier there, however, a lot of the new jobs in SC are going to transplants, not necessarily people who already lived there.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:50 pm

WIederling wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
We don't take care of mental health in the US. It's as simple as that.


Isn't the US the country where everybody and his(her?) pet has a shrink?


Only the wealthy. Those of us with insurance find that our insurance isn't required to offer much for mental health coverage. Poor people without insurance? You're SOL.
 
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DL717
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:01 pm

jetero wrote:
DL717 wrote:
WIederling wrote:

There is a caveat in that you have to overlay the regional rates with the rise.
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/usa/ ... /by-state/

Looks like the high increase states are also the high in absolute numbers states.
What is so terrible about "living in fly over country"?


Population growth.


Nope, it’s the rate.


Those states have all had population increases of import, mostly people trying to escape the city. They either can’t cope or they brought their problems with them in hopes of a new life.
Everything is chits and giggles until you get old enough to giggle and then you chit.
 
CCGPV
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:16 pm

Jouhou wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
We don't take care of mental health in the US. It's as simple as that.


Isn't the US the country where everybody and his(her?) pet has a shrink?


Only the wealthy. Those of us with insurance find that our insurance isn't required to offer much for mental health coverage. Poor people without insurance? You're SOL.


There is free access to free mental (and other) healthcare in every county and state in the USA. Most people don't take the steps to seek it out.

It doesn't cost a thing to talk to a member of a church, a police officer, a NAMI meeting, etc. There are lots of resources.
Stay curious
 
CCGPV
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:17 pm

luckyone wrote:
WIederling wrote:
jetero wrote:
And I just made an effort to verify the numbers and find myself proven wrong.

Hello mouth, insert foot.


There is a caveat in that you have to overlay the regional rates with the rise.
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/usa/ ... /by-state/

Looks like the high increase states are also the high in absolute numbers states.
What is so terrible about "living in fly over country"?

The biggest answer is substance use. The drug problem in flyover country is quite high, particularly meth and opioids. There's an term called "Suicide Tuesday," wherein someone goes on a weekend binge, after which the brain's neurotransmitters are so dysregulated that people crash into a deep depression.
Then in no particular order...
Geographic isolation.
Geographic isolation in an era where information spreads like wildfire, so you're even more aware of how geographically isolated you are, and the differences between where you live and elsewhere is highlighted.
Lack of perceived opportunities in geographically isolated area, and a rural culture that doesn't encourage diversity of experience, and a lack of perception that you can get out.
Several of those states are experiencing economic decline, and population exodus. South Carolina is an outlier there, however, a lot of the new jobs in SC are going to transplants, not necessarily people who already lived there.


Boston and the PNW has the highest rates of opioid and heroin abuse in the nation.
Stay curious
 
luckyone
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:27 pm

CCGPV wrote:
luckyone wrote:
WIederling wrote:

There is a caveat in that you have to overlay the regional rates with the rise.
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/usa/ ... /by-state/

Looks like the high increase states are also the high in absolute numbers states.
What is so terrible about "living in fly over country"?

The biggest answer is substance use. The drug problem in flyover country is quite high, particularly meth and opioids. There's an term called "Suicide Tuesday," wherein someone goes on a weekend binge, after which the brain's neurotransmitters are so dysregulated that people crash into a deep depression.
Then in no particular order...
Geographic isolation.
Geographic isolation in an era where information spreads like wildfire, so you're even more aware of how geographically isolated you are, and the differences between where you live and elsewhere is highlighted.
Lack of perceived opportunities in geographically isolated area, and a rural culture that doesn't encourage diversity of experience, and a lack of perception that you can get out.
Several of those states are experiencing economic decline, and population exodus. South Carolina is an outlier there, however, a lot of the new jobs in SC are going to transplants, not necessarily people who already lived there.


Boston and the PNW has the highest rates of opioid and heroin abuse in the nation.

Indeed.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:35 pm

CCGPV wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
WIederling wrote:

Isn't the US the country where everybody and his(her?) pet has a shrink?


Only the wealthy. Those of us with insurance find that our insurance isn't required to offer much for mental health coverage. Poor people without insurance? You're SOL.


There is free access to free mental (and other) healthcare in every county and state in the USA. Most people don't take the steps to seek it out.

It doesn't cost a thing to talk to a member of a church, a police officer, a NAMI meeting, etc. There are lots of resources.


None of those options sound like a good choice to me. I would rather kill myself than let in the moral corruption of a church. Not to mention none of what you listed is actual clinical care. The seriously mentally ill tend to become homeless, are you telling me the system hasn't failed them? Have you heard about the creepy religious cult shit the likes of the salvation army force them to do?
 
luckyone
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:18 pm

Jouhou wrote:
CCGPV wrote:
Jouhou wrote:

Only the wealthy. Those of us with insurance find that our insurance isn't required to offer much for mental health coverage. Poor people without insurance? You're SOL.


There is free access to free mental (and other) healthcare in every county and state in the USA. Most people don't take the steps to seek it out.

It doesn't cost a thing to talk to a member of a church, a police officer, a NAMI meeting, etc. There are lots of resources.


None of those options sound like a good choice to me. I would rather kill myself than let in the moral corruption of a church. Not to mention none of what you listed is actual clinical care. The seriously mentally ill tend to become homeless, are you telling me the system hasn't failed them? Have you heard about the creepy religious cult shit the likes of the salvation army force them to do?

There actually is a demonstrable link between reduction in suicide and church attendance. Now, be that therapeutic benefit or just good 'ole guilt is open for debate. But the association is real.
Most mentally ill people, in 2018, are incarcerated. The largest mental health facilities in the United States are in order, the Cook County Jail, followed by the Los Angeles County Jail, and then Riker's Island. Now, the laws differ from state to state, but by and large the onus is on providers to demonstrate a safety risk toward the patient or toward others to involuntarily treat someone, and this is in part due to an overreach in previous generations where something as stupid as a menopausal woman having a hotflash and snapping at her husband could get put into an asylum with the diagnosis of hysteria. The system has absolutely failed them. The problem is nobody has figured out a system that prevents it. We had a system of large scale institutionalization until the 1950s and the advent of psychotropic medications, at which time the institutions were rapidly closed. But the institutions didn't do much to help, and the outcomes weren't any better because the agitation control methods were often deadly. They were grossly underfunded and understaffed, to the point where in some of them you would wait a year to see a doctor. A YEAR. In my humble opinion, we need a system that allows providers to individually review cases, the number of times a patient has been hospitalized/incarcerated, number of failed treatments, difficulty accessing services, social supports, severity of the illness itself, etc etc. It wouldn't be cheap, but it's probably cheaper than the massive costs shouldered by law enforcement as we currently have. It would not be a simple solution, but I'd love to sit down and be a part of trying to fix this mess we have now.
 
PPVRA
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:32 pm

PTSD from wars, aging population, opioids as mentioned. . .
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
910A
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:32 pm

CCGPV wrote:
Boston and the PNW has the highest rates of opioid and heroin abuse in the nation.


According to this chart from the National Institute of Drug Abuse (NIDA) it's the entire Northeast and Mideast parts of the US that have the highest rate of deaths from opioid abuse. Surprising Utah is right up there. If the cause of death is drug overdose, it shouldn't count as a suicide in the public records.

https://www.drugabuse.gov/drugs-abuse/o ... s-by-state
 
CCGPV
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:04 pm

Jouhou wrote:
CCGPV wrote:
Jouhou wrote:

Only the wealthy. Those of us with insurance find that our insurance isn't required to offer much for mental health coverage. Poor people without insurance? You're SOL.


There is free access to free mental (and other) healthcare in every county and state in the USA. Most people don't take the steps to seek it out.

It doesn't cost a thing to talk to a member of a church, a police officer, a NAMI meeting, etc. There are lots of resources.


None of those options sound like a good choice to me. I would rather kill myself than let in the moral corruption of a church. Not to mention none of what you listed is actual clinical care. The seriously mentally ill tend to become homeless, are you telling me the system hasn't failed them? Have you heard about the creepy religious cult shit the likes of the salvation army force them to do?


Yes I've heard all that. Beggars can't be choosers. If you'd rather kill yourself than go to a NAMI meeting or approach a church (just for referral) or an emergency room nurse then well I guess you might as well get it over with.

Many people think we need to go back to the hospitals we had until the 1970's and 80's. Some people need to be locked away from society than left to their own devices wandering around sleeping outside. A revolving door is better than an underpass.
Stay curious
 
apodino
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:03 am

Mental health is a huge issue in this country. The Suicide Rate quoted in this thread, and the amount of mass shootings in recent years are not mutually exclusive, but are two peas from the same pod. And sadly, this is an issue that does not get addressed at all except from soundbites from politicians saying we need to do more, and then nothing ever gets done.

I don't know what the answer is as I am not an expert in this area. I know my faith has personally helped me, but I also recognize that not everyone believes in God, or has a faith. That is ok. The question is, how do we help these people? And often times, these people are reluctant to get help because of the stigma surrounding mental health. It shouldn't be this way.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:17 am

seb146 wrote:
Our health care system can be overwhelming and depressing.


Personally I find it underwhelming.
 
seb146
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:19 am

CCGPV wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
CCGPV wrote:

There is free access to free mental (and other) healthcare in every county and state in the USA. Most people don't take the steps to seek it out.

It doesn't cost a thing to talk to a member of a church, a police officer, a NAMI meeting, etc. There are lots of resources.


None of those options sound like a good choice to me. I would rather kill myself than let in the moral corruption of a church. Not to mention none of what you listed is actual clinical care. The seriously mentally ill tend to become homeless, are you telling me the system hasn't failed them? Have you heard about the creepy religious cult shit the likes of the salvation army force them to do?


Yes I've heard all that. Beggars can't be choosers. If you'd rather kill yourself than go to a NAMI meeting or approach a church (just for referral) or an emergency room nurse then well I guess you might as well get it over with.

Many people think we need to go back to the hospitals we had until the 1970's and 80's. Some people need to be locked away from society than left to their own devices wandering around sleeping outside. A revolving door is better than an underpass.


Some people are so disturbed, they don't know what day or month or year it is. Some people have such PTSD they don't understand that help is a good thing, not a weak thing. Some people have long term and lingering symptoms and no one to talk to because of money or they don't know where to go. Our health care system can be overwhelming and depressing.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Flighty
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:06 am

In no particular order but I think a reduction in fitness makes people more grouchy.

There may be a significant demographic change since 1999 too. The country is significantly older, sicker and more obese. I maintain that wages for mid-skill people also play a role.

America is going throug a transition of demographics, technology and geography. Plenty of people including entire towns and cities were doing great in 1985. Among the wealthiest places anywhere, now they are being told they are “flyover country” and “ignorant,” not only by American elites but by the media too, and amazingly, even foreigners from third world countries. The American middle class has been shamed and demonized as foul racists who are good for nothing. Meanwhile, they built the greatest country by almost any measure in the world, for which we aren’t giving them credit; just my opinion.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:19 am

Flighty wrote:
In no particular order but I think a reduction in fitness makes people more grouchy.

There may be a significant demographic change since 1999 too. The country is significantly older, sicker and more obese. I maintain that wages for mid-skill people also play a role.

America is going throug a transition of demographics, technology and geography. Plenty of people including entire towns and cities were doing great in 1985. Among the wealthiest places anywhere, now they are being told they are “flyover country” and “ignorant,” not only by American elites but by the media too, and amazingly, even foreigners from third world countries. The American middle class has been shamed and demonized as foul racists who are good for nothing. Meanwhile, they built the greatest country by almost any measure in the world, for which we aren’t giving them credit; just my opinion.


Because even by the logic of right wing rhetoric, you are lazy and lack ambition if you don't follow the jobs as they move. If all the good jobs moved towards the coasts and major cities, but you live in West Virginia and can't be assed with leaving and instead turn to heroin, then you really kind of do suck as a person. For these people to point fingers at the "coastal elites" and not take responsibility for their own laziness is pretty insulting to the rest of us who did what it took to find better lives.
 
Kno
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:56 am

A lot of Americans feel they have lives with failed dreams horrible work life balances and destroyed relationships. Then every where you go everything is negative negative negative and the common American ideals are half assed and superficial.

I'm struggling with all this myself but wouldn't end it. Just thinking out loud. I've met very few people who feel successful and happy about their lives. Is there something to this? Was there a time when this was easier or simpler?
Last edited by Kno on Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:03 am

Kno wrote:
A lot of Americans feel they have lives with failed dreams horrible work life balances and destroyed relationships. Then every where you go everything is negative negative negative and the common American ideals are half assed and superficial.

I'm struggling with all this myself but wouldn't end it. Just thinking out loud. I've met very people who feel successful and happy about their lives. Is there something too this? Was there a time when this was easier or simpler?


The "American Dream" was about social mobility. That social mobility is mostly gone, and the middle class that has lost their status don't have a way back up. As much as I have contempt for "flyover" country I do realize that once they have lost their status, they aren't getting it back. We've become too much of an oligarchy.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:43 am

Kno wrote:
A lot of Americans feel they have lives with failed dreams horrible work life balances and destroyed relationships. Then every where you go everything is negative negative negative and the common American ideals are half assed and superficial.

I'm struggling with all this myself but wouldn't end it. Just thinking out loud. I've met very few people who feel successful and happy about their lives. Is there something to this? Was there a time when this was easier or simpler?


Get rid of neo-liberalism. If you want to let your society move ahead, you need to invest in it, not just letting a few of your community get all the spoils. Invest in infrastructure, education, research etc. Work smarter, not harder, for a better work-life balance. Make your cities more compact, in order to have less traffic and better public transportation. Make sure that one-and-a-half job is enough for a household even low paying jobs.

Be a bit more a socialist country.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Kno
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:52 am

Dutchy wrote:
Kno wrote:
A lot of Americans feel they have lives with failed dreams horrible work life balances and destroyed relationships. Then every where you go everything is negative negative negative and the common American ideals are half assed and superficial.

I'm struggling with all this myself but wouldn't end it. Just thinking out loud. I've met very few people who feel successful and happy about their lives. Is there something to this? Was there a time when this was easier or simpler?


Get rid of neo-liberalism. If you want to let your society move ahead, you need to invest in it, not just letting a few of your community get all the spoils. Invest in infrastructure, education, research etc. Work smarter, not harder, for a better work-life balance. Make your cities more compact, in order to have less traffic and better public transportation. Make sure that one-and-a-half job is enough for a household even low paying jobs.

Be a bit more a socialist country.


Jouhou wrote:

The "American Dream" was about social mobility. That social mobility is mostly gone, and the middle class that has lost their status don't have a way back up. As much as I have contempt for "flyover" country I do realize that once they have lost their status, they aren't getting it back. We've become too much of an oligarchy.


I appreciate both of your thoughts in response to my post.

Do you guys think these issues directly correlate to the increased suicide rate?
 
afcjets
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:59 am

Jouhou wrote:
Flighty wrote:

America is going throug a transition of demographics, technology and geography. Plenty of people including entire towns and cities were doing great in 1985. Among the wealthiest places anywhere, now they are being told they are “flyover country” and “ignorant,” not only by American elites but by the media too, and amazingly, even foreigners from third world countries. The American middle class has been shamed and demonized as foul racists who are good for nothing. Meanwhile, they built the greatest country by almost any measure in the world, for which we aren’t giving them credit; just my opinion.


Because even by the logic of right wing rhetoric, you are lazy and lack ambition if you don't follow the jobs as they move. If all the good jobs moved towards the coasts and major cities, but you live in West Virginia and can't be assed with leaving and instead turn to heroin, then you really kind of do suck as a person. For these people to point fingers at the "coastal elites" and not take responsibility for their own laziness is pretty insulting to the rest of us who did what it took to find better lives.


ROFL no one believed you saw leaving WV or wherever you're from to move to NYC, LA, or SF as a making a big sacrifice, even before getting here...

Jouhou wrote:
As much as I have contempt for "flyover" country I do realize that once they have lost their status, they aren't getting it back.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:41 am

afcjets wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Flighty wrote:

America is going throug a transition of demographics, technology and geography. Plenty of people including entire towns and cities were doing great in 1985. Among the wealthiest places anywhere, now they are being told they are “flyover country” and “ignorant,” not only by American elites but by the media too, and amazingly, even foreigners from third world countries. The American middle class has been shamed and demonized as foul racists who are good for nothing. Meanwhile, they built the greatest country by almost any measure in the world, for which we aren’t giving them credit; just my opinion.


Because even by the logic of right wing rhetoric, you are lazy and lack ambition if you don't follow the jobs as they move. If all the good jobs moved towards the coasts and major cities, but you live in West Virginia and can't be assed with leaving and instead turn to heroin, then you really kind of do suck as a person. For these people to point fingers at the "coastal elites" and not take responsibility for their own laziness is pretty insulting to the rest of us who did what it took to find better lives.


ROFL no one believed you saw leaving WV or wherever you're from to move to NYC, LA, or SF as a making a big sacrifice, even before getting here...

Jouhou wrote:
As much as I have contempt for "flyover" country I do realize that once they have lost their status, they aren't getting it back.


Naw, I'm a native new englander. I gave up nothing. But if I didn't have a decent job i'd pack my bags for Texas the minute I read an article about truck drivers getting paid 140k a year there.

And yes, I do think the loss of social mobility contributes to feelings of hopelessness. It's not the only factor, but it's a pretty big one. Social mobility translates to "hope" economically. Without it, you don't have hope.
 
MaverickM11
Topic Author
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:02 am

DL717 wrote:
jetero wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Population growth.


Nope, it’s the rate.


Those states have all had population increases of import, mostly people trying to escape the city. They either can’t cope or they brought their problems with them in hopes of a new life.

Huh? Migration has been to cities and suburbs. Not the other way around.
Flighty wrote:
America is going throug a transition of demographics, technology and geography. Plenty of people including entire towns and cities were doing great in 1985. Among the wealthiest places anywhere, now they are being told they are “flyover country” and “ignorant,” not only by American elites but by the media too, and amazingly, even foreigners from third world countries. The American middle class has been shamed and demonized as foul racists who are good for nothing. Meanwhile, they built the greatest country by almost any measure in the world, for which we aren’t giving them credit; just my opinion.

Middle America was hollowed out of economic opportunity, and the people that could moved to cities where the opportunity and infrastructure followed. It has nothing to do with people calling them mean names.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Redd
Posts: 661
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:40 am

Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:51 pm

CCGPV wrote:
It doesn't cost a thing to talk to a member of a church, a police officer, a NAMI meeting, etc. There are lots of resources.


I don't think you quite (or are ever close to it) understand what problems with mental health are, or the solutions or help needed. Police officers, seriously? Might as well speak to a sanitation worker.
 
luckyone
Posts: 2560
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:03 pm

Redd wrote:
CCGPV wrote:
It doesn't cost a thing to talk to a member of a church, a police officer, a NAMI meeting, etc. There are lots of resources.


I don't think you quite (or are ever close to it) understand what problems with mental health are, or the solutions or help needed. Police officers, seriously? Might as well speak to a sanitation worker.

His reference to police officers is not off-base. Law enforcement brings in a large number of people to emergency rooms and mental health facilities, because they get called either by the individual themselves, family/friends, or by onlookers. In Wisconsin where I work weekends, for example, there are two paths to involuntary psychiatric care, one of which starts with an Emergency Detention placed by law enforcement. The other is the more traditional manner placed by a physician.
 
CCGPV
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:06 pm

Redd wrote:
CCGPV wrote:
It doesn't cost a thing to talk to a member of a church, a police officer, a NAMI meeting, etc. There are lots of resources.


I don't think you quite (or are ever close to it) understand what problems with mental health are, or the solutions or help needed. Police officers, seriously? Might as well speak to a sanitation worker.


I'm not talking about long term care or a nice therapy session, I'm talking about getting help immediately because you are going to kill yourself right now. Emergency care. The police will make you get help.
Stay curious
 
Flighty
Posts: 9549
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:17 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
jetero wrote:

Nope, it’s the rate.


Those states have all had population increases of import, mostly people trying to escape the city. They either can’t cope or they brought their problems with them in hopes of a new life.

Huh? Migration has been to cities and suburbs. Not the other way around.
Flighty wrote:
America is going throug a transition of demographics, technology and geography. Plenty of people including entire towns and cities were doing great in 1985. Among the wealthiest places anywhere, now they are being told they are “flyover country” and “ignorant,” not only by American elites but by the media too, and amazingly, even foreigners from third world countries. The American middle class has been shamed and demonized as foul racists who are good for nothing. Meanwhile, they built the greatest country by almost any measure in the world, for which we aren’t giving them credit; just my opinion.

Middle America was hollowed out of economic opportunity, and the people that could moved to cities where the opportunity and infrastructure followed. It has nothing to do with people calling them mean names.


Actually, I agree. The hollowing out is easy to see and feel.

The mean names, maybe that is not what is making people destroy themselves. Instead maybe it upsets me as an analyst. When I look at US history, I see amazing achievements in St Louis, Detroit and Ohio etc. Incredible feats in engineering, art, music, commerce, architecture. Innovations that changed the world. Wealth on an enormous scale. Significant cultural development. Some of it has been lost, but please don't tell me the people are not talented. Their ability is beyond any question. Instead, their economy was broken. Exactly what the solution is, I don't know.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:12 pm

But to bring it full circle, if you lose all and especially hope, you are a lost soul and that might lead to depression which in turn might lead to suicidal thought and actually kill yourself. Suicides rates tent to go up in recessions. As did in at least The Netherlands.

Hope is a powerfull thing.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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OA412
Moderator
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:25 pm

The thread topic is increased suicide rates in the US. A back and forth about wealth distribution that is not directly addressing the topic is not productive. Please keep posts on topic. If you'd like to discuss suicide as a function of disparate wealth distribution in the US, feel free, just keep things on topic.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
Flighty
Posts: 9549
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:27 pm

OA412 wrote:
The thread topic is increased suicide rates in the US. A back and forth about wealth distribution that is not directly addressing the topic is not productive. Please keep posts on topic. If you'd like to discuss suicide as a function of disparate wealth distribution in the US, feel free, just keep things on topic.


OA, suicide has been called "deaths of despair" and there is already some effort to explain it.

Why, even in the same age ranges, are suicide rates higher? Jobs are one factor. Overall people aren't getting married as often either. They also aren't moving to where the opportunities are anymore.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ol-suicide

"We found the mortality increases are in sync with the distress midlife [white non-Hispanics] face in many dimensions: poorer health and mental health, social isolation, obesity, marriage (or lack of marriage), poorer labor market opportunities, and weaker attachment to the labor market. "
 
Redd
Posts: 661
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:40 am

Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:57 pm

CCGPV wrote:
Redd wrote:
CCGPV wrote:
It doesn't cost a thing to talk to a member of a church, a police officer, a NAMI meeting, etc. There are lots of resources.


I don't think you quite (or are ever close to it) understand what problems with mental health are, or the solutions or help needed. Police officers, seriously? Might as well speak to a sanitation worker.


I'm not talking about long term care or a nice therapy session, I'm talking about getting help immediately because you are going to kill yourself right now. Emergency care. The police will make you get help.

Ok. Apologies then.
 
snasteve
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:58 am

Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:11 pm

My issue with so many of my compatriots here in America, is they take a not invented here attitude to problem solving. There are plenty of other nations having to deal with all of the same problems we have and they're having better success.

We should do what they do where they succeed.
 
LittleSprocket
Posts: 102
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:56 am

Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:52 pm

Jouhou wrote:
jetero wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Population growth.


Nope, it’s the rate.


Flyover country would be completely depopulated if we had spare housing in the booming cities...


No it wouldn't, why would people choose to live in a cramped city dealing with traffic, gangs, pollution and having your neighbor basically living with you when you can live here in Montana waking up to picturesque views and your closest neighbor being over a mile away?

I'll choose the open country over a crime-ridden cesspool ANY day of the week.
 
luckyone
Posts: 2560
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:10 am

LittleSprocket wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
jetero wrote:

Nope, it’s the rate.


Flyover country would be completely depopulated if we had spare housing in the booming cities...


No it wouldn't, why would people choose to live in a cramped city dealing with traffic, gangs, pollution and having your neighbor basically living with you when you can live here in Montana waking up to picturesque views and your closest neighbor being over a mile away?

I'll choose the open country over a crime-ridden cesspool ANY day of the week.

While all those things do exist, Chicago has a lower suicide rate (more than half as low) than Montana, which has the highest suicide rate in the nation.
 
bagoldex
Posts: 784
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:33 pm

Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:32 am

LittleSprocket wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
jetero wrote:

Nope, it’s the rate.


Flyover country would be completely depopulated if we had spare housing in the booming cities...


No it wouldn't, why would people choose to live in a cramped city dealing with traffic, gangs, pollution and having your neighbor basically living with you when you can live here in Montana waking up to picturesque views and your closest neighbor being over a mile away?

I'll choose the open country over a crime-ridden cesspool ANY day of the week.


What ignorance! Buyers are fighting over homes in most large cities. In LA, San Francisco, New York and Boston an offer is rarely entertained unless it's cash and even hotel room sized studio units routinely sell for over $500k. Guess city life isn't that bad.
 
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Jouhou
Posts: 992
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:24 am

LittleSprocket wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
jetero wrote:

Nope, it’s the rate.


Flyover country would be completely depopulated if we had spare housing in the booming cities...


No it wouldn't, why would people choose to live in a cramped city dealing with traffic, gangs, pollution and having your neighbor basically living with you when you can live here in Montana waking up to picturesque views and your closest neighbor being over a mile away?

I'll choose the open country over a crime-ridden cesspool ANY day of the week.


Traffic doesn't matter if you can walk everywhere you need to. There's a total of zero gangs where I live, the water and air here are pristine and neighbors are great. Convenient social life, we look after each other, and we keep each other and the neighborhood safe. Basically the only crime that happens is drunk drivers.

And if we're ever feeling depressed, we have someone nearby to give us the support we need. Neighbors are probably a factor that reduces suicide rates. It makes it hard to become socially isolated.
 
MaverickM11
Topic Author
Posts: 16620
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Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:31 am

LittleSprocket wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
jetero wrote:

Nope, it’s the rate.


Flyover country would be completely depopulated if we had spare housing in the booming cities...


No it wouldn't, why would people choose to live in a cramped city dealing with traffic, gangs, pollution and having your neighbor basically living with you when you can live here in Montana waking up to picturesque views and your closest neighbor being over a mile away?

Because that's where the majority of jobs and infrastructure is? :confused: People have been overwhelmingly choosing to live in cities for decades. Do you know anyone that lives in a city? I have yet to deal with a gang.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
jetero
Posts: 3691
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: US suicide rate up 28% in 20 years

Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:03 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
LittleSprocket wrote:
Jouhou wrote:

Flyover country would be completely depopulated if we had spare housing in the booming cities...


No it wouldn't, why would people choose to live in a cramped city dealing with traffic, gangs, pollution and having your neighbor basically living with you when you can live here in Montana waking up to picturesque views and your closest neighbor being over a mile away?

Because that's where the majority of jobs and infrastructure is? :confused: People have been overwhelmingly choosing to live in cities for decades. Do you know anyone that lives in a city? I have yet to deal with a gang.


Little Sprocket, are you a native Montanan?

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