anrec80
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:31 pm

scbriml wrote:
Looks like the GRU may have been busy again...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45505064
Mr Verzilov is married to Nadezhda Tolokonnikova, the Pussy Riot member who was sentenced in 2012 to two years in jail for a performance at a Moscow cathedral.

Ms Tolokonnikova tweeted: "Pyotr may have been poisoned. In the toxicology department in a very serious condition."


It's odd how many people who dare to speak out against Putin end up in prison or hospital, or just dead in bizarre "accidents" or shot right outside the Kremlin. :scratchchin:


Someone else is poisoned? Look - these poisoning stories aren’t even interesting any longer. Gotta find some other way of involving Putin.
 
anrec80
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:13 pm

Dutchy wrote:
WIederling wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Tell that to the Syrians.


Who bankrolled and "imported" the IS to Syria? Hint: not the Russians.

All going well Syria will be the first to see meaningful restoration/rebuilding.


Yes, the fellow dictator is very grateful to Putin for keeping him in power so he can go one to suppress his people.


Dutchy, I think you should be grateful to Putin and that “fellow dictator” (including presonally) that heads aren’t being cut in Europe.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:43 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
WIederling wrote:

Who bankrolled and "imported" the IS to Syria? Hint: not the Russians.

All going well Syria will be the first to see meaningful restoration/rebuilding.


Yes, the fellow dictator is very grateful to Putin for keeping him in power so he can go one to suppress his people.


Dutchy, I think you should be grateful to Putin and that “fellow dictator” (including personally) that heads aren’t being cut in Europe.


The mass fleeing of Syrians started when Putin rescued the Assad regime. So yeah, very grateful for Putin: all human suffering and all the refugees to neighboring countries and Europe. If nothing else, it has cost billions to Europeans and billions more in the coming years. And yet, Putin asked Merkel to help (=pay) for the rebuilt of Syria. Putin created the mess upon the mess, so Putin should pay for that.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:48 pm

This gets more hilarious by the minute:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45509697

So, two Russian men fly to London, just to see Salisbury cathedral. Just the sort of holiday aduld adult males tend to go on. But you never know, they seem to have a peculiar fascination with the cathedral's clock. It is the reputed to be oldest working clock in existance, after all, just the sort of thing two men travelling together like to do on holidays. So nice that they had to travel to Salisbury twice to see it, two days in a row!

Back in March, Vassily Nebenzia -- Russia's speical envoy to the UN -- told an emergency meeting of the U.N. Security Council that "Russia had nothing to do with this incident" and "we have nothing to fear and nothing to hide."

Denial for six months. Then, days after photographs of two Russian suspects appear on newspapers and TV around the world, Vladimir Putin appears -- uncomortable and tetchy -- on Russian TV saying that they knew who they were and hoped they would speak about the incident soon.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
 
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Dutchy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:54 pm

Scorpius wrote:
interview with Ruslan Bashirov & Alexander Petrov:
https://youtu.be/_V5oz8t1CDI


In Russian without subtitles :roll:
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:26 pm

Braybuddy wrote:
This gets more hilarious by the minute:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45509697

So, two Russian men fly to London, just to see Salisbury cathedral. Just the sort of holiday aduld adult males tend to go on. But you never know, they seem to have a peculiar fascination with the cathedral's clock. It is the reputed to be oldest working clock in existance, after all, just the sort of thing two men travelling together like to do on holidays. So nice that they had to travel to Salisbury twice to see it, two days in a row!

Back in March, Vassily Nebenzia -- Russia's speical envoy to the UN -- told an emergency meeting of the U.N. Security Council that "Russia had nothing to do with this incident" and "we have nothing to fear and nothing to hide."

Denial for six months. Then, days after photographs of two Russian suspects appear on newspapers and TV around the world, Vladimir Putin appears -- uncomortable and tetchy -- on Russian TV saying that they knew who they were and hoped they would speak about the incident soon.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:


From the link: "The two men told RT their lives had been "turned upside down" by the allegations. "We're afraid to go out, we fear for ourselves, our lives and lives of our loved ones," said Mr Boshirov."

I can imagine that, fear of their lives. Well, the interview was for national consumption. Nobody in the west will believe it anyway. And now Russian in Russia will say: you see perfectly logical: two bloks went to the UK for two days just to see a Cathedral in a small town: Salisbury. First day only one hour, because of some snow. Second they, they went to see it for real. So what is the fuss? It must be a Brittish complot to blame Russia. Russians abroad will say the same and point to the interview: let's have it Anrec80 and Scorpius

Everyone else will just laugh and say, come to the UK and let investigators handle it and let's see if they can make their case in a court of law. So this was indeed a good laugh, nothing more.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:14 pm

Dutchy wrote:
From the link: "The two men told RT their lives had been "turned upside down" by the allegations. "We're afraid to go out, we fear for ourselves, our lives and lives of our loved ones," said Mr Boshirov."

Probably more from messing up the whole operation than anything else. Their careers are well-and-truly over, that's for sure.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:24 pm

Their killing days in Europe are indeed over, lots of action in Russia these days, so I would not be too worried about them ;)
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:50 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Well, the interview was for national consumption

Can be the only explanation, given that nobody outside Russia is going to believe it. You would really wonder how gullible the Kremlin believes ordinary Russians are. I'd love to know how this is playing out in cafés and bars around Moscow and St Petersburg.
 
anrec80
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:10 pm

Braybuddy wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
I was not pointing fingers anywhere. What I was saying is that information released by British in itself may not be sufficient to establish the identities of these individuals in all cases. They found them - great. Might as well have not. And certainly extremely unlikely to make grounds for a sound legal case. Too many gaps.

Oh yes you were! You were doing your best to muddy the waters and finger other eastern European secret services. Your Dear Leader has let you down. You stick up for him, and then, when he's finally cornered, he drops you in it.

So you now accept that Russians -- or at least agents operating out of Russia -- were responsible?


I can’t “muddy waters” any more than British did already. Look what’s going on - all these Bondianas take place only in Britain for some reason, even though there is enough of active and former spies everywhere. Most people on this thread just bought British version at its face value. I just pointed out the gaps, and what other versions can fit into those. Proper investigation of such incidents must be an international effort (which British are avoiding like a plague and are “asking for explanation”). Yes, I personally believe that all these “thrillers” are dirty games of British and other secret services, and they are OK with that. Just with the latest suspects interview this “thriller” came down to a filming student’s first comedy.

Theresa May just seized the opportunity to draw attention away from Brexit, than isn’t going as well for Britain. She had her “highly likely” and “almost certainly” BS talks in British Parliament, where she has immunity from prosecution for what she says there. Yes, nobody can bring a case forward against her for her words in parliament, according to British law. Hence she is free to say whatever she feels like.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:24 pm

And yet you take on face value the explanation of these two: it snows so we are going back by train while according to them that was the reason for their visit. :rotfl:
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:30 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Braybuddy wrote:
I can’t “muddy waters” any more than British did already. Look what’s going on - all these Bondianas take place only in Britain for some reason, even though there is enough of active and former spies everywhere. Most people on this thread just bought British version at its face value. I just pointed out the gaps, and what other versions can fit into those. Proper investigation of such incidents must be an international effort (which British are avoiding like a plague and are “asking for explanation”). Yes, I personally believe that all these “thrillers” are dirty games of British and other secret services, and they are OK with that. Just with the latest suspects interview this “thriller” came down to a filming student’s first comedy.

Theresa May just seized the opportunity to draw attention away from Brexit, than isn’t going as well for Britain. She had her “highly likely” and “almost certainly” BS talks in British Parliament, where she has immunity from prosecution for what she says there. Yes, nobody can bring a case forward against her for her words in parliament, according to British law. Hence she is free to say whatever she feels like.

Where to start? I've lost track of the number of red herrings you've brought into this debate, from fake passports, eastern europeans, to even doubting if these agents had ever been to Russia. The British case hasn't varied at all. And now you're throwing-in the biggest red herring of all. When everything else fails, blame Brexit! You could have a great future in comedy, you know . . .

And now we have Russians who can't handle a little bit of snow! This gets better by the minute. :rotfl:
 
Scorpius
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:31 pm

Video, allowing to present the scale of the exercises "East-2018":
https://youtu.be/0PhIqfa4f-k
 
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Tugger
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:43 pm

Braybuddy wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
From the link: "The two men told RT their lives had been "turned upside down" by the allegations. "We're afraid to go out, we fear for ourselves, our lives and lives of our loved ones," said Mr Boshirov."

Probably more from messing up the whole operation than anything else. Their careers are well-and-truly over, that's for sure.

Well especially since they are obviously a gay couple going for a get-a-way couple of days. Russian's don't seem to particularly like the gays....
:spin:
Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:45 pm

Tugger wrote:
Well especially since they are obviously a gay couple going for a get-a-way couple of days. Russian's don't seem to particularly like the gays....
:spin: Tugg

You know you might be on to something. The RT interviewer seems to have embarrassed them slightly. From the Washington Post:
“Don’t you think it’s silly for straight men to have women’s perfume with them?” Boshirov said, referring to the Nina Ricci vial that British authorities said contained the poison. The RT interview went on: “Speaking of straight men, all footage features you two together. You spent time together, you lived together, you went for a walk together. What do you have in common that you spend so much time together?” Boshirov: “You know, let’s not breach anyone’s privacy. We came to you for protection, but this is turning into some kind of interrogation. We are going too far. We came to you for protection. You’re not interrogating us.”

Then they seem to have got lost looking for the cathedral, which is difficult to miss, given that it is not only the tallest building in the city, but the tallest spire in Britain:
They acknowledged they went to Salisbury twice. But they claimed they cut short both trips due to the snow and slush on the streets. “We were drenched up to our knees,” Boshirov said. Photos released by Scotland Yard show the pair walking on a largely clear sidewalk, with a light dusting of snow, a day after a bigger snowstorm. The pair were also picked up by surveillance video in the vicinity of the Skripal house on the day of the attack, March 4. “Perhaps we did pass by Skripal’s house, but we don’t know where it is,” said Boshirov,

Petrov said that on their first trip to Salisbury, they were unable to make it from the train station to the cathedral — about 800 meters (half a mile) — because of snow and slush. Much of Britain suffered such weather that day. The weather was better the next day, when the two were caught on camera at the Salisbury rail station at 11:48 a.m. Ten minutes later, another camera found them walking in the direction of Skripal’s house — the opposite direction from the cathedral. They again were recorded in the center of town an hour later and were at the station by 1:50 p.m., two hours after arriving. “We walked around, enjoying those beautiful English Gothic buildings,” Boshirov said. They got a flight back to Russia later that evening.
They must have an extraordinary passion for gothic cathedrals to make two 180 roundtrips in two days, in bad weather, for what must have been a very short visit to the cathedral, given they got lost on the way! :o

Full articles:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/eu ... 52ad150210

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/eu ... d329b6e237
 
anrec80
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:48 pm

Braybuddy wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Well especially since they are obviously a gay couple going for a get-a-way couple of days. Russian's don't seem to particularly like the gays....
:spin: Tugg

You know you might be on to something. The RT interviewer seems to have embarrassed them slightly. From the Washington Post:
“Don’t you think it’s silly for straight men to have women’s perfume with them?” Boshirov said, referring to the Nina Ricci vial that British authorities said contained the poison. The RT interview went on: “Speaking of straight men, all footage features you two together. You spent time together, you lived together, you went for a walk together. What do you have in common that you spend so much time together?” Boshirov: “You know, let’s not breach anyone’s privacy. We came to you for protection, but this is turning into some kind of interrogation. We are going too far. We came to you for protection. You’re not interrogating us.”

Then they seem to have got lost looking for the cathedral, which is difficult to miss, given that it is not only the tallest building in the city, but the tallest spire in Britain:
They acknowledged they went to Salisbury twice. But they claimed they cut short both trips due to the snow and slush on the streets. “We were drenched up to our knees,” Boshirov said. Photos released by Scotland Yard show the pair walking on a largely clear sidewalk, with a light dusting of snow, a day after a bigger snowstorm. The pair were also picked up by surveillance video in the vicinity of the Skripal house on the day of the attack, March 4. “Perhaps we did pass by Skripal’s house, but we don’t know where it is,” said Boshirov,

Petrov said that on their first trip to Salisbury, they were unable to make it from the train station to the cathedral — about 800 meters (half a mile) — because of snow and slush. Much of Britain suffered such weather that day. The weather was better the next day, when the two were caught on camera at the Salisbury rail station at 11:48 a.m. Ten minutes later, another camera found them walking in the direction of Skripal’s house — the opposite direction from the cathedral. They again were recorded in the center of town an hour later and were at the station by 1:50 p.m., two hours after arriving. “We walked around, enjoying those beautiful English Gothic buildings,” Boshirov said. They got a flight back to Russia later that evening.
They must have an extraordinary passion for gothic cathedrals to make two 180 roundtrips in two days, in bad weather, for what must have been a very short visit to the cathedral, given they got lost on the way! :o

Full articles:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/eu ... 52ad150210

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/eu ... d329b6e237


Let’s say this here is a speculation on a little fine detail. Those two obviously aren’t public persons and aren’t comfortable with the camera. As well as with this whole mess.
 
anrec80
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:50 pm

Braybuddy wrote:
And now we have Russians who can't handle a little bit of snow! This gets better by the minute. :rotfl:


How did you want? Half-ass information release and no red herrings at all? The only way to avoid those red herrings would have been not to release such obvious BS.
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:06 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Those two obviously aren’t public persons and aren’t comfortable with the camera. As well as with this whole mess.

Obviously. Who's responsible for dragging them in front of the camera? They didn't seem to want it. Even if they're not fired for incompetence, they're not much use as secret agents anymore, given that their faces have been broadcast right around the world.

anrec80 wrote:
Braybuddy wrote:
How did you want? Half-ass information release and no red herrings at all? The only way to avoid those red herrings would have been not to release such obvious BS.

They were recorded on CCTV! I suppose you're going to tell us now that the vidoes are fake?
 
anrec80
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:13 pm

Dutchy wrote:
I can imagine that, fear of their lives. Well, the interview was for national consumption. Nobody in the west will believe it anyway. And now Russian in Russia will say: you see perfectly logical: two bloks went to the UK for two days just to see a Cathedral in a small town: Salisbury. First day only one hour, because of some snow. Second they, they went to see it for real. So what is the fuss? It must be a Brittish complot to blame Russia. Russians abroad will say the same and point to the interview: let's have it Anrec80 and Scorpius


What’s terribly wrong? These two are just regular law-abiding middle class guys who do some small business, live their lives, have some money for occasional very budget travel. This is how they come across, nothing else. Not international relations professionals obviously. One doesn’t speak English, the other one - barely. You see plenty of such tourists in Amsterdam I am sure, who are trying to get to and see a thing or two, without knowing language. Of course it’s not uncommon for tourists not knowing how to get where they want to be to fail to get there and re-try the next day. Besides Cathedral they also wanted to see Stonehenge. Their actions obviously will differ from those of a local and seem very unusual and suspicious. To me this explanation is perfectly reasonable. Everyone who travels have been in similar spots themselves.

Now, speaking of fear. Imagine one not so wonderful day all the world’s newspapers come out with big heading: “DUTCHY AND BRAYBUDDY: WAR CRIMINALS 2018”. What will happen? Probably you’ll be let of off your job with words “look, there is no fault of your own here, we understand it all, but please understand us too”. If you are in business - all the customers and maybe suppliers will run away. Landlord might as well approach you with similar ask - “I won’t charge you to break the lease and even pay for you move, please and sorry”. Right? And it will take a really long time while the scandal subsides, the thing gets forgotten enough and you will become employable again. Then you will need to rebuild your career, regain previous and new customers. All this will take years, and during this time you will get sometimes hungry, will need a place to live. So there are things to be feared of course. Of course it’s the correct statement - everything you have been working for for decades is gone overnight, just because you happened to be in the wrong moment in the wrong place.

Dutchy wrote:
Everyone else will just laugh and say, come to the UK and let investigators handle it and let's see if they can make their case in a court of law. So this was indeed a good laugh, nothing more.


What kind of wish is this? Someone going somewhere to prove their innocence? This is something unheard of in Europe since probably Roman Republic circa 500BC. Yeah, sure, come here, maybe spend in jail a year or two, we don’t know, let’s see what we can make in the court of law, maybe elsewhere. WTF is this? Can’t you get through your head one simple thing - these two people don’t owe anything to Therese May, to British prosecution, and Britain in general? If British want some information - a British investigator is (and was) more than welcome to send a request to Russians to talk to these two. If one wants of course. They should have done exactly that months ago in fact - ask Russians for help. “Russian trolls” have been telling this to you from day one.
 
anrec80
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:16 pm

Braybuddy wrote:
They were recorded on CCTV! I suppose you're going to tell us now that the vidoes are fake?


Very possible. There are plenty of CCTVs in public streets we get onto periodically. Every tourist to Salisbury gets onto those. Where’s the video showing them putting the substance onto Skripal’s door, as claimed by British?
 
anrec80
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:18 pm

Tugger wrote:
Probably more from messing up the whole operation than anything else. Their careers are well-and-truly over, that's for sure.

Well especially since they are obviously a gay couple going for a get-a-way couple of days. Russian's don't seem to particularly like the gays....
:spin:
Tugg[/quote]


Nobody knows whether they are gays or not, and I don’t see why it has to be so important. It’s not an offense in Russia, in Britain, they have all rights to be whoever they want. Including as tourists in the UK. A gay tourist in the UK is not unheard of, I am sure.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:36 pm

Two Russian spies on their way to Swiss poison gas lab were piicked up in The Hague

Case-Skripal: Western intelligence services prevented a hack in a Swiss laboratory for nuclear, biological and chemical weapons this spring

In The Hague, two Russian spies were arrested this spring on their way to Switzerland. The destination was the Spiez laboratory. This investigated both the poison gas attacks of the Assad regime in Syria and the attack on the Russian double spy Sergei Skripal in the British Salisbury.

The arrest was the result of cooperation between various intelligence services in Europe, including the Dutch Military Intelligence and Security Service (MIVD). This is shown by research by NRC and the Swiss newspaper Tages-Anzeiger..


In Dutch: https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2018/09/13/tw ... g-a1616475
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
anrec80
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:26 am

Dutchy wrote:
Two Russian spies on their way to Swiss poison gas lab were piicked up in The Hague

Case-Skripal: Western intelligence services prevented a hack in a Swiss laboratory for nuclear, biological and chemical weapons this spring

In The Hague, two Russian spies were arrested this spring on their way to Switzerland. The destination was the Spiez laboratory. This investigated both the poison gas attacks of the Assad regime in Syria and the attack on the Russian double spy Sergei Skripal in the British Salisbury.

The arrest was the result of cooperation between various intelligence services in Europe, including the Dutch Military Intelligence and Security Service (MIVD). This is shown by research by NRC and the Swiss newspaper Tages-Anzeiger..


In Dutch: https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2018/09/13/tw ... g-a1616475


How do we understand this one? Skripals were not poisoned by these Petrov and Boshirov, but by the two expelled Russian diplomats? Why wouldn’t British make up that story? They could have picked up their photos from visa application, maybe from visits to the UK. Then - photoshopped a few pictures, and marketed that as evidence. At least that would have been harder to argue with than this video of two absolutely normal regular men next door.
 
anrec80
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:44 am

Another interesting news today - perhaps this is the one who poisoned Skripals?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/0 ... evon-home/
 
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Zeppi
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:22 am

Braybuddy wrote:
Can be the only explanation, given that nobody outside Russia is going to believe it. You would really wonder how gullible the Kremlin believes ordinary Russians are. I'd love to know how this is playing out in cafés and bars around Moscow and St Petersburg.

Not very different, the scare tactics by Putin and his cronies are working quite well domestically even on those who see right through the blatant bullshit. A good friend of mine is from St Petersburg, her parents still live there an she visits once or twice per year. Here in Germany she's very critical about many things going on in Russia, but when she's there she just sort of tags along with the common "it's all great here" rethorics similar to what we see coming from the Putin trolls in this thread. You never know who might be listening after all, the ears of Putin are everywhere.

It would actually be very hilarious seeing all this 70s soviet style disinformation and agitation being played again by russia were it not for so many innocent people suffering under it...
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:10 am

anrec80 wrote:
What’s terribly wrong? These two are just regular law-abiding middle class guys who do some small business, live their lives, have some money for occasional very budget travel. This is how they come across, nothing else. Not international relations professionals obviously. One doesn’t speak English, the other one - barely. You see plenty of such tourists in Amsterdam I am sure, who are trying to get to and see a thing or two, without knowing language. Of course it’s not uncommon for tourists not knowing how to get where they want to be to fail to get there and re-try the next day. Besides Cathedral they also wanted to see Stonehenge. Their actions obviously will differ from those of a local and seem very unusual and suspicious. To me this explanation is perfectly reasonable. Everyone who travels have been in similar spots themselves.

Now, speaking of fear. Imagine one not so wonderful day all the world’s newspapers come out with big heading: “DUTCHY AND BRAYBUDDY: WAR CRIMINALS 2018”. What will happen? Probably you’ll be let of off your job with words “look, there is no fault of your own here, we understand it all, but please understand us too”. If you are in business - all the customers and maybe suppliers will run away. Landlord might as well approach you with similar ask - “I won’t charge you to break the lease and even pay for you move, please and sorry”. Right? And it will take a really long time while the scandal subsides, the thing gets forgotten enough and you will become employable again. Then you will need to rebuild your career, regain previous and new customers. All this will take years, and during this time you will get sometimes hungry, will need a place to live. So there are things to be feared of course. Of course it’s the correct statement - everything you have been working for for decades is gone overnight, just because you happened to be in the wrong moment in the wrong place.

I would love to see that headline plastered across the world's newspapers! The first thing I would do is take a trip to my solicitor and sue. These guys are perfectly entitled to do the same. After all, their identities have been confirmed by Moscow, and their photographs have been plastered on newspapers all across the world, and accused of attempted murder. They could make MILLIONS -- if they were innocent. And who goes to Salisbury for a two hour trip to visit the cathedral and Stonehenge? The latter takes at least three hours in itself. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Their story has more holes in it than a Swiss cheese.

anrec80 wrote:
Very possible. There are plenty of CCTVs in public streets we get onto periodically. Every tourist to Salisbury gets onto those. Where’s the video showing them putting the substance onto Skripal’s door, as claimed by British?

Because their front door wasn't covered by CCTV? But you already knew that. You're running out of straws . . .

Zeppi wrote:
It would actually be very hilarious seeing all this 70s soviet style disinformation and agitation being played again by russia were it not for so many innocent people suffering under it...

For sure. This incident is straight out of a Cold War comedy. Austin Powers where are you? :D
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:42 am

Interesting take on it all in The Guardian, from a Russian journalist:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -interview
Funny how the two buddies have passports with numbers one digit apart!

Which includes a link on how Putin deals with the opposition: :eek:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/video ... alny-video
 
Scorpius
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:09 am

Braybuddy wrote:
Which includes a link on how Putin deals with the opposition: :eek:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/video ... alny-video

This is ridiculous. The man was offended by the slander of the Navalny. You can say a lot about how could he do such a video, speaking as an official, but here is another fact - the head of the power structure demands from the opposition some kind of satisfaction. It's as if the head of the FBI or the CIA threatened a prisoner with a fist Guantanamo. Oh, I'm sorry - you don't care about the fate of the Guantanamo prisoners.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:28 am

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Two Russian spies on their way to Swiss poison gas lab were piicked up in The Hague

Case-Skripal: Western intelligence services prevented a hack in a Swiss laboratory for nuclear, biological and chemical weapons this spring

In The Hague, two Russian spies were arrested this spring on their way to Switzerland. The destination was the Spiez laboratory. This investigated both the poison gas attacks of the Assad regime in Syria and the attack on the Russian double spy Sergei Skripal in the British Salisbury.

The arrest was the result of cooperation between various intelligence services in Europe, including the Dutch Military Intelligence and Security Service (MIVD). This is shown by research by NRC and the Swiss newspaper Tages-Anzeiger..


In Dutch: https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2018/09/13/tw ... g-a1616475


How do we understand this one? Skripals were not poisoned by these Petrov and Boshirov, but by the two expelled Russian diplomats? Why wouldn’t British make up that story? They could have picked up their photos from visa application, maybe from visits to the UK. Then - photoshopped a few pictures, and marketed that as evidence. At least that would have been harder to argue with than this video of two absolutely normal regular men next door.


How to understand this one? Not difficult. Two Russian spies were caught in The Hague by the Dutch with the help of some foreign agencies. Again Russians caught red-handed in Europe with all kinds of nasty business. The perfect thing for you to spin.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Scorpius
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:35 am

Dutchy wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:


How do we understand this one? Skripals were not poisoned by these Petrov and Boshirov, but by the two expelled Russian diplomats? Why wouldn’t British make up that story? They could have picked up their photos from visa application, maybe from visits to the UK. Then - photoshopped a few pictures, and marketed that as evidence. At least that would have been harder to argue with than this video of two absolutely normal regular men next door.


How to understand this one? Not difficult. Two Russian spies were caught in The Hague by the Dutch with the help of some foreign agencies. Again Russians caught red-handed in Europe with all kinds of nasty business. The perfect thing for you to spin.

Meanwhile, European and American spies are regularly caught in Russia. The same Oleg Skripal was a British spy in Russia. However, for some reason you are interested in Russian spies in Europe, while about the fact of the presence of European and American spies in Russia for some reason you "forget". This is called "double standards" - typically European morality.
 
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scbriml
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:51 am

Braybuddy wrote:
Funny how the two buddies have passports with numbers one digit apart!


I'm sure that's just one of those freaky coincidences. :sarcastic:
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
Scorpius
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:40 am

The court of England ruled in favor of Ukraine in the dispute between Russia and Ukraine on the payment of Ukraine 3 billion dollars, which were taken from Russia in 2013. This is the second process in which the English court makes a decision that is contrary to international law (the first case was in the case of non-compliance by Ukraine with the terms of gas contracts).


Thus, a reasonable question arises: why is Russia obliged to pay someone the money that it borrowed?
It turns out that you can declare any public debt as "taken under pressure" and refuse to pay it, without declaring default.
Also with gas contracts - it is possible to demand an advance payment on them, and then to refuse deliveries of gas and not to return thus money-after all contracts are concluded on "conditions, unprofitable for Russia".

I wonder how the EU and the US would react if Russia acted in the same way as Ukraine towards Russia?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:20 pm

Scorpius wrote:
The court of England ruled in favor of Ukraine in the dispute between Russia and Ukraine on the payment of Ukraine 3 billion dollars, which were taken from Russia in 2013. This is the second process in which the English court makes a decision that is contrary to international law (the first case was in the case of non-compliance by Ukraine with the terms of gas contracts).


Thus, a reasonable question arises: why is Russia obliged to pay someone the money that it borrowed?
It turns out that you can declare any public debt as "taken under pressure" and refuse to pay it, without declaring default.
Also with gas contracts - it is possible to demand an advance payment on them, and then to refuse deliveries of gas and not to return thus money-after all contracts are concluded on "conditions, unprofitable for Russia".

I wonder how the EU and the US would react if Russia acted in the same way as Ukraine towards Russia?



:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

So the laywers for the Russian state couldnot make a case in Britain and lost their case, you say they are biased. Typical thinking, Scorpius.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Scorpius
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:44 pm

Dutchy wrote:

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

So the laywers for the Russian state couldnot make a case in Britain and lost their case, you say they are biased. Typical thinking, Scorpius.

What are the precedents when, for example, someone in an English court refused to pay money to Britain.
Only after that you will have the right to say something about the "impartiality" of the English courts.
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:37 pm

Here's the route the agents took:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0jeG2zKeYY

So, they passed the petrol station on Wilton Road at 11:58. At some stage after that they would have realised they were walking in the wrong direction, and then turned around. Assuming the walk to Salsibury Cathedral (according to Google) would have taken about 25 minutes, they would have got there around 12:30, maybe even later, given that their sense of direction wasn't great. Then they were captured on CCTV back at the railway station at 13:05. The walk from the cathedral to there (assuming they didn't get lost a third time) would have taken around 15 minutes. So that gave them the maximum of 20 minutes to visit the cathedral. No time at all to climb the beautiful spire they travelled all that distance -- twice! -- to see. What a shame, given that now they'll never get a chance to see it . . . :hissyfit:
 
anrec80
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:00 pm

Dutchy wrote:

How to understand this one? Not difficult. Two Russian spies were caught in The Hague by the Dutch with the help of some foreign agencies. Again Russians caught red-handed in Europe with all kinds of nasty business. The perfect thing for you to spin.


What I don’t understand is - have this pair poisoned Skripal or not? Or rather “not just yet”?
 
anrec80
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:07 pm

scbriml wrote:
Braybuddy wrote:
Funny how the two buddies have passports with numbers one digit apart!


I'm sure that's just one of those freaky coincidences. :sarcastic:


Maybe. A British investigator has all he needs to make an inquiry, come to Russia and investigate this aspect too. If he wants of course. If he doesn’t - then the only choice of his (and public) is to take it at that.
 
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Tugger
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:47 pm

I always wonder what the average Russian thinks of vaccines.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:03 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Maybe. A British investigator has all he needs to make an inquiry, come to Russia and investigate this aspect too. If he wants of course. If he doesn’t - then the only choice of his (and public) is to take it at that.

Even in Russia there are prominent people who don't believe the agents. Interesting item on the BBC Today show:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/play/p06l4swn

I'll only botch the Russian names if I try to type them, but they're named on the audio. Some excerpts: Sceptics said the interview was "stilted", "closely stage managed" and "unconvincing" "in fact the two looked and spoke exactly how most people imagine Russian spies". One independent journalist said: "If the spies tried to look like a romantic gay couple who are mad about provincial Gothic architecture, tell them it was a good try, but they need a new cover story". And an independent politician said: "This interview has made it obvious the idiots who are doing increasing more idiotic things, but can't see it, because they are idiots. They are doing them in front of their own citizens and the whole world"
 
anrec80
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:23 am

Braybuddy wrote:
I would love to see that headline plastered across the world's newspapers! The first thing I would do is take a trip to my solicitor and sue. These guys are perfectly entitled to do the same. After all, their identities have been confirmed by Moscow, and their photographs have been plastered on newspapers all across the world, and accused of attempted murder. They could make MILLIONS -- if they were innocent. And who goes to Salisbury for a two hour trip to visit the cathedral and Stonehenge? The latter takes at least three hours in itself. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Their story has more holes in it than a Swiss cheese.


Really? Just sue and get millions, huh? Every country has a whole set of laws that grant immunity to MPs, ministers, and even heads of departments. IN this case, Theresa May said her “highly likely” and “almost certainly” junk in House of Commons - a place where she cannot be sued and prosecuted for saying anything at all, period. And the rest (media, people, ministers, departments) just cited her. Hence the one you can sue has immunity, and the everyone else - you don’t have anything to sue for.

And really, will it be your first priority? I described the implications you will have - you are out of work, landlord kicks you out, your customers all ran away. Even banks froze your assets, while creditors nonetheless want their payments. And you, being a middle class person, will start hiring $2000/hr high profile lawyers, in theses circumstances? Really? The option to go to Britain to spend this time in jail may actually be a good bet - your life won’t be screwed there as badly as outside. And if you are a Western citizen - your government will not protect you because of this “solidarity”, rest assured. Russia does at least. They may even hire lawyers for these people.

Braybuddy wrote:
Because their front door wasn't covered by CCTV? But you already knew that. You're running out of straws . . .


Then what is going to prove that they poisoned it? Even if they happened to pass by the house on the public sidewalk - that in itself is legal and does not prove anything. Keep in mind - you are dealing with a pair of travelers who don’t know the country, language, where they and where is it that they want to be. So applicability of rationale (whether or not somebody does something or not) is very limited here. In the interview they said - we may even have passed by his house, we don’t know where it is and how it looks.
 
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Tugger
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:02 am

anrec80 wrote:
Then what is going to prove that they poisoned it?

"Proof" as you are asking is not needed.

Preponderance of evidence in combination with made up stories and removing other possibilities provide the proof "beyond a reasonable doubt" .

This is a standard in Russia, in Britain, in much of the world. Don;t know why you would not recognize this.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:47 am

anrec80 wrote:
Really? Just sue and get millions, huh? Every country has a whole set of laws that grant immunity to MPs, ministers, and even heads of departments. IN this case, Theresa May said her “highly likely” and “almost certainly” junk in House of Commons - a place where she cannot be sued and prosecuted for saying anything at all, period. And the rest (media, people, ministers, departments) just cited her. Hence the one you can sue has immunity, and the everyone else - you don’t have anything to sue for.

If you knew anything about the world outside Russia you would know that your first, and easiest, option, would be to sue the media. These guys have had their photographs plastered across newspapers and TV news across the world.

Braybuddy wrote:
Then what is going to prove that they poisoned it? Even if they happened to pass by the house on the public sidewalk - that in itself is legal and does not prove anything. Keep in mind - you are dealing with a pair of travelers who don’t know the country, language, where they and where is it that they want to be. So applicability of rationale (whether or not somebody does something or not) is very limited here. In the interview they said - we may even have passed by his house, we don’t know where it is and how it looks.

If a video were produced of these guys walking up to the Skripals' door, then taking out a bottle of "perfume" and spraying it on the handle, you would still be shouting "fake!" and "prove it!". Your argument is one of denial, denial, denial, no matter how ridiculous that argument is. You don't actually need video evidience to prove something "beyond reasonable doubt". Suppose I was eating my dinner and there was a dog in the room. Then I leave the room and come back several minutes later and find my plate empty, I would be entitled to believe that the dog had eaten my dinner. Your argument would be "You can't prove it!" "It could have been anyone!". As Sherlock Holmes once said "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." So you don't have to actually catch the person in the act to prove something, a concept which you don't seem to grasp at all.
 
SoJo
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:52 am

Just want to say this. As someone who lives in Salisbury, the first thing you see on leaving the station is the Spire.
RAF Abingdon 1967. I met Beverley from Blackburn. Fantastic!
 
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scbriml
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:59 pm

SoJo wrote:
Just want to say this. As someone who lives in Salisbury, the first thing you see on leaving the station is the Spire.


Yes, I remember that from my visit to Salisbury a few years ago.

You'd have to be the dumbest kind of tourist to head in the opposite direction. Unless, of course, you had a message for Sergei from his old mate Vlad to deliver first. :scratchchin:
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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Braybuddy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:05 pm

SoJo wrote:
Just want to say this. As someone who lives in Salisbury, the first thing you see on leaving the station is the Spire.

Salisbury is a beautiful city, and I had the good fortune to visit it last year, staying just off Wilton Road. Walking there from the station it's very obvious that you are heading back out of the city. Anyone looking for the city centre would know immediately they were going in the wrong direction. This story is hilarious it has so many holes in it. Dragging these guys in front of the TV cameras has only made the problem worse for the Russians: they don't realise that when you're in a hole, you stop digging.
 
THS214
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:57 pm

SoJo wrote:
Just want to say this. As someone who lives in Salisbury, the first thing you see on leaving the station is the Spire.


Can you prove that these Russians who initially were not Russians but someone who maybe worked for some eastern Europe country did see the Spire. Weather was poor so most likely they looked down as it must have been slippery. Those CCTV footage that shows different was not from outside of the station so we can not trust those CCTV footage about weather. Its perfectly understandable that these persons walked wrong way. Remember that the day earlier they abandoned their trip because of bad weather. Maybe they were confused when they came out of the station in bad weather.

What I'm saying is that you can not prove why these guys took the route they took. Maybe they just got lost.

UK needs to provide everything they know to Russians and co-operate. Otherwise its impossible to find these persons. After all Russia has 150 million people. Ups... Maybe these persons of interest are not in Russia at all... but UK needs to share everything they know with Russia.

There: Anrec80 in a nutshell. Keep up the good work. Reading this thread is so much fun!
 
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Tugger
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:36 pm

THS214 wrote:
What I'm saying is that you can not prove why these guys took the route they took. Maybe they just got lost.

So what you are saying is that you can't disprove the evidence so you are obfuscating and blindly throwing out vague excuses.

Russia needs to cooperate with Britain and allow them to directly interview these two poor, possibly gay, fellows instead of throwing them into the public view. Something that puts their lives at risk. It is not that hard.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
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Tugger
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:40 pm

Braybuddy wrote:
SoJo wrote:
Dragging these guys in front of the TV cameras has only made the problem worse for the Russians: they don't realise that when you're in a hole, you stop digging.

Actually it is possible this is being done because 1.) It was done with out approval/clearance from Putin's chain of command. So he is leaving them to hang as an example to other operators. Or 2.) They were cleared but completely botched their task which was to be "invisible" and instead they left a bright, clear trail that could be and was found.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
THS214
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:19 pm

Tugger wrote:
THS214 wrote:
What I'm saying is that you can not prove why these guys took the route they took. Maybe they just got lost.

So what you are saying is that you can't disprove the evidence so you are obfuscating and blindly throwing out vague excuses.

Russia needs to cooperate with Britain and allow them to directly interview these two poor, possibly gay, fellows instead of throwing them into the public view. Something that puts their lives at risk. It is not that hard.

Tugg


Tugger,

My post post was sarcasm. Sorry I wasn't clear enough.

Read it again as fun and you see what I mean. ;)
 
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Tugger
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:48 pm

THS214 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
THS214 wrote:
What I'm saying is that you can not prove why these guys took the route they took. Maybe they just got lost.

So what you are saying is that you can't disprove the evidence so you are obfuscating and blindly throwing out vague excuses.

Russia needs to cooperate with Britain and allow them to directly interview these two poor, possibly gay, fellows instead of throwing them into the public view. Something that puts their lives at risk. It is not that hard.

Tugg


Tugger,

My post post was sarcasm. Sorry I wasn't clear enough.

Read it again as fun and you see what I mean. ;)

Ahh!!
Image

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin

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