smallvoyageur
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:52 am

We are now recieving news that back in 2010 a certain Australian-Ecuadorian tried to fee to Russia, before his current stay at the embassy in Knightsbridge.

Irony-meter overload, it comes from a leaked cable from Wikileaks itself.

https://www.politico.eu/article/julian- ... wikileaks/
 
anrec80
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:11 pm

Dutchy wrote:

The Russian military isn't a reputable source.


Then what IS a reputable source - Bellingcat? The ones who were already caught on fakes?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:19 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

The Russian military isn't a reputable source.


Then what IS a reputable source - Bellingcat? The ones who were already caught on fakes?


The JIT for instance or her majesty prosecutors.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Scorpius
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:31 pm

Zeppi wrote:
Look, I don't engage in conversation with trolls out of principle, but this is absolutetely golden:

Scorpius wrote:
So you're kind of trying to emphasize the inferiority of the Russians, aren't you?


No, he's not. At all. It's the likes of you as well as your beloved Putin government that make it look to the rest of the world like Russia is still deeply entangled in a huge inferiority complex since the downfall of the USSR. Huge war games, state run doping programs, internet troll factories, illegal annexations, insanely big state sponsored media disinformation, diletantically botched hitjobs - doing anything to try to look "great" on the international stage. Yet what you're achieving is the exact opposite, heck, you even make yourselves look more goofy than the other big country across the pond with the insane orange guy at the helm and that's quite the achievement I must say. And with every forum post, every faked russian media release, every new piece of totally obvious BS propaganda you are making it worse still! The world is laughing about you!

No, russians are not inferior, I'd even say on the contrary. There are several amazing russian mathematics and physics professors at my university I absolutely adore, I will often sit in their lectures in my free time just for the extra input. But most of those brilliant minds are leaving Russia, because there are people like yourself with their mindset stuck in the last century, in turn dearly costing the Russian nation with this brain-drain. If there are really that many with your view of the world as you claim in Russia, the future looks very bleak for you. Then the fall of the USSR was just a start and you're heading for much worse times even...

Sorry for the rant, maybe it opens the eyes of the one or other troll.



That is typical - you and like you that try to declare me a Troll (!), which pays Putin(!!), very shy to give me your details - name, surname and address of residence, so I can officially file a lawsuit against you for insults, slander and attempts to defame my name.
You write insulting things about me, but for their applications to respond to you are going.

So either show me evidence that I'm getting money somewhere or I'm Putin's agent-or get the fuck out of the topic. Otherwise I will seek from the forum administrator delete your personal attacks, lies, insults.
 
Scorpius
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:35 pm

Dutchy wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

The Russian military isn't a reputable source.


Then what IS a reputable source - Bellingcat? The ones who were already caught on fakes?


The JIT for instance or her majesty prosecutors.

Ha, JIT and prosecutors are not authoritative sources. The investigation is not objective, and this is an established fact.
 
Scorpius
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:42 pm

Braybuddy wrote:
It proves that at least one of them had gloves with him, which you would expect if you didn't want to leave fingerprints. And, of course, these were two Russians who couldn't handle a bit of snow, remember?.

That's why he holds the gloves with his bare hands, so that they are guaranteed to have fingerprints, which are then transferred to any suitable surface?
LoL
 
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Dutchy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:51 pm

Scorpius wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
anrec80 wrote:

Then what IS a reputable source - Bellingcat? The ones who were already caught on fakes?


The JIT for instance or her majesty prosecutors.

Ha, JIT and prosecutors are not authoritative sources. The investigation is not objective, and this is an established fact.


I understand that you say this from a Russian perspective and indeed prosecutors are not independent in Russia, in the Netherlands they are, just look at the international rankings.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Scorpius
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:57 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Scorpius wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

The JIT for instance or her majesty prosecutors.

Ha, JIT and prosecutors are not authoritative sources. The investigation is not objective, and this is an established fact.


I understand that you say this from a Russian perspective and indeed prosecutors are not independent in Russia, in the Netherlands they are, just look at the international rankings.


International ratings are nothing. The figures that people write, sitting on a salary. They will draw the numbers that are beneficial to their employers. International ratings cannot be a universal measure or authority.
I am not saying that even those ratings contradict your statements.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:58 pm

Scorpius wrote:
Zeppi wrote:
Look, I don't engage in conversation with trolls out of principle, but this is absolutetely golden:

Scorpius wrote:
So you're kind of trying to emphasize the inferiority of the Russians, aren't you?


No, he's not. At all. It's the likes of you as well as your beloved Putin government that make it look to the rest of the world like Russia is still deeply entangled in a huge inferiority complex since the downfall of the USSR. Huge war games, state run doping programs, internet troll factories, illegal annexations, insanely big state sponsored media disinformation, diletantically botched hitjobs - doing anything to try to look "great" on the international stage. Yet what you're achieving is the exact opposite, heck, you even make yourselves look more goofy than the other big country across the pond with the insane orange guy at the helm and that's quite the achievement I must say. And with every forum post, every faked russian media release, every new piece of totally obvious BS propaganda you are making it worse still! The world is laughing about you!

No, russians are not inferior, I'd even say on the contrary. There are several amazing russian mathematics and physics professors at my university I absolutely adore, I will often sit in their lectures in my free time just for the extra input. But most of those brilliant minds are leaving Russia, because there are people like yourself with their mindset stuck in the last century, in turn dearly costing the Russian nation with this brain-drain. If there are really that many with your view of the world as you claim in Russia, the future looks very bleak for you. Then the fall of the USSR was just a start and you're heading for much worse times even...

Sorry for the rant, maybe it opens the eyes of the one or other troll.



That is typical - you and like you that try to declare me a Troll (!), which pays Putin(!!), very shy to give me your details - name, surname and address of residence, so I can officially file a lawsuit against you for insults, slander and attempts to defame my name.
You write insulting things about me, but for their applications to respond to you are going.

So either show me evidence that I'm getting money somewhere or I'm Putin's agent-or get the fuck out of the topic. Otherwise I will seek from the forum administrator delete your personal attacks, lies, insults.


You have absolute troll like behavior, if you are paid or not he doesn't say. So no need to go all out on him like that.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:43 pm

Scorpius wrote:
That's why he holds the gloves with his bare hands, so that they are guaranteed to have fingerprints, which are then transferred to any suitable surface?
LoL

Does it not occur to you that he would have put the gloves on before transferring his fingerprints to any incriminating surface, like any good secret agent would?

But keep the excuses coming. They're highly entertaining . . . :D
 
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Dutchy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:47 pm

Scorpius wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Scorpius wrote:
Ha, JIT and prosecutors are not authoritative sources. The investigation is not objective, and this is an established fact.


I understand that you say this from a Russian perspective and indeed prosecutors are not independent in Russia, in the Netherlands they are, just look at the international rankings.


International ratings are nothing. The figures that people write, sitting on a salary. They will draw the numbers that are beneficial to their employers. International ratings cannot be a universal measure or authority.
I am not saying that even those ratings contradict your statements.


And there you have it, your thinking is like this: all comparison are fake as long as they aren't putting Putin's Russia in a good light. All people whom think differently as you - thus don't put Putin and Russia on a pedestal - are wrong or as you have called me numerous times - without any proof - a lair or telling a lie.

Let me tell you it isn't the scientific way. You can dismiss one or two international comparisons if you like, but the trend is crystal clear. Russia can't be found at the top half. All fake, all a massive conspiracy against Putin's regime?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Scorpius
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:04 am

Dutchy wrote:
And there you have it, your thinking is like this: all comparison are fake as long as they aren't putting Putin's Russia in a good light. All people whom think differently as you - thus don't put Putin and Russia on a pedestal - are wrong or as you have called me numerous times - without any proof - a lair or telling a lie.

Let me tell you it isn't the scientific way. You can dismiss one or two international comparisons if you like, but the trend is crystal clear. Russia can't be found at the top half. All fake, all a massive conspiracy against Putin's regime?

And again I ask-what Putin? I mention it several times less than you mention it, Dutchy.

Ratings that are based on false indicators-will always be false, whoever wrote them.
For example, in the United States in prisons and at the hands of the police die annually several times more people than in Russia:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... ys-website
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ody-deaths
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9bg3 ... merica-265

Also, if we look at the relative values, Russia has one and a half fewer prisoners per 100,000 population than the United States (for Russia it is ~400, for the United States ~660):
Image

Somehow these data do not add up with what Russia is accused of and what image Western media create about my country.
In absolute terms, Russia has three and a half times fewer prisoners than the United States. In Russia on January 13 this year 602 thousand prisoners were held in prisons. In the US, this number is 2.3 million prisoners.

What do we see? In " Putin's repressive Russia "you will go to prison with a probability of 1.5 times lower than"in the free democratic United States."

And this is a lie you have everywhere-in your media, in your statistics, when the level of GDP of countries is considered for some reason necessarily in dollars. I've only held dollars a few times in my life-when I had to go abroad on vacation. The rest of the time in Russia are in rubles, not dollars. And bigmak in the US costs an average of $5.51, and in Russia it costs 130 rubles right now (at the current rate it is $1.95)
https://www.statista.com/statistics/274 ... a-big-mac/
https://mcdonalds.ru/products/10
 
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Dutchy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:09 am

Oh ok, the known propaganda technic: you can always find something wrong with statistics - it is, after all, a simplified form to describe reality - and therefore all statistics are false. That is complete bull of course.

Yes, you take the worst of the bunch, US and compare it to Russia, look how good we are doing.

Russia is 14th in the world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... ation_rate

Congrats you found a statistic in which Russia is at the top halve, even in the top 10%. The Netherlands is 192 with 59/100.000.

You do realize that especially in the US the length of a jail sentence is insanely long.

Better to look at the number of political prisoners. 70 are currently recognized held by Russia: https://memohrc.org/ru/bulletins/list-i ... rial-and-0

For the Big Mac index, you do realize that it is a compartment in purchase power, simplified, but never the less interesting: so the more expensive a Big Mac is, the more purchase power a country has, basically you glowed that things are cheap in Russia, but it is a bad sign. Think about that before you provide us with statistics.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
anrec80
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:27 am

Dutchy wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

The Russian military isn't a reputable source.


Then what IS a reputable source - Bellingcat? The ones who were already caught on fakes?


The JIT for instance or her majesty prosecutors.


Well - her Majesty's prosecutors may still have a chance if they stop chasing these Petrov and Boshirov. JIT - almost went on Bellingcat fakes and Ukrainian directions, let's see who they point to. That one is too early to say.
 
anrec80
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:31 am

Braybuddy wrote:
Scorpius wrote:
That's why he holds the gloves with his bare hands, so that they are guaranteed to have fingerprints, which are then transferred to any suitable surface?
LoL

Does it not occur to you that he would have put the gloves on before transferring his fingerprints to any incriminating surface, like any good secret agent would?

But keep the excuses coming. They're highly entertaining . . . :D


Well - this is not something we here should be discussing and speculating on, it's something British prosecutors are better showing us.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:53 am

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
anrec80 wrote:

Then what IS a reputable source - Bellingcat? The ones who were already caught on fakes?


The JIT for instance or her majesty prosecutors.


Well - her Majesty's prosecutors may still have a chance if they stop chasing these Petrov and Boshirov. JIT - almost went on Bellingcat fakes and Ukrainian directions, let's see who they point to. That one is too early to say.


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

So basically you are saying: if the Brits point to these two individuals they are not reputable if they point to someone which fit your "world view" they are and the same goes for the JIT. I feel privileged to live in a free country with a strong independent justice department.

Like I said before, I will accept any findings of the JIT no matter the outcome. Do you?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
WIederling
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:02 am

Braybuddy wrote:
If you peel behind the veneer of posturing, blustering and blundering that Putin is doing on the world's stage, you'll find a deeply insecure man who is dragging his country down a rabbit hole, IMHO.


You mistyped "Trump".
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:05 pm

WIederling wrote:
You mistyped "Trump".[/quote]
Trump hasn't invaded anywhere, yet .. . :D
 
anrec80
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:10 pm

Braybuddy wrote:
WIederling wrote:
You mistyped "Trump".

Trump hasn't invaded anywhere, yet .. . :D[/quote]

What about Syria? USA are there, despite that nobody invited them there.
 
anrec80
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:13 pm

Dutchy wrote:
So basically you are saying: if the Brits point to these two individuals they are not reputable if they point to someone which fit your "world view" they are and the same goes for the JIT. I feel privileged to live in a free country with a strong independent justice department.

Like I said before, I will accept any findings of the JIT no matter the outcome. Do you?


It’s not about my “world view”, it’s about evidence. I’ll accept any point, as long as it’s backed by the facts and proven. And proof needs to be better than Bellingcat fakes, “social networks”, and a few photos of two regular blokes.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:23 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
So basically you are saying: if the Brits point to these two individuals they are not reputable if they point to someone which fit your "world view" they are and the same goes for the JIT. I feel privileged to live in a free country with a strong independent justice department.

Like I said before, I will accept any findings of the JIT no matter the outcome. Do you?


It’s not about my “world view”, it’s about evidence. I’ll accept any point, as long as it’s backed by the facts and proven. And proof needs to be better than Bellingcat fakes, “social networks”, and a few photos of two regular blokes.


And yet you believe these two blokes and the Russian account of MH17, while the UK prosecutors looked at the evidence and found that they have enough for an arrest warrant and the JIT has enough for determining were the missile came from. So I would say this statement is far from the truth based on your behavior here.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Tugger
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:14 pm

Dutchy wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
So basically you are saying: if the Brits point to these two individuals they are not reputable if they point to someone which fit your "world view" they are and the same goes for the JIT. I feel privileged to live in a free country with a strong independent justice department.

Like I said before, I will accept any findings of the JIT no matter the outcome. Do you?


It’s not about my “world view”, it’s about evidence. I’ll accept any point, as long as it’s backed by the facts and proven. And proof needs to be better than Bellingcat fakes, “social networks”, and a few photos of two regular blokes.


And yet you believe these two blokes and the Russian account of MH17, while the UK prosecutors looked at the evidence and found that they have enough for an arrest warrant and the JIT has enough for determining were the missile came from. So I would say this statement is far from the truth based on your behavior here.

Well yes of course two people in a casual/strained interview are ALWAYS vastly superior to any investigation by any authority. I mean look at the detail and evidence they presented! :spin:

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:51 pm

anrec80 wrote:
What about Syria? USA are there, despite that nobody invited them there.

"Invaded" as in permanently annexed or occupied.
 
WIederling
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:00 pm

Braybuddy wrote:
WIederling wrote:
You mistyped "Trump".

Trump hasn't invaded anywhere, yet .. . :D


That was not in the description.

You wrote this:
Braybuddy wrote:
If you peel behind the veneer of posturing, blustering and blundering that Putin is doing on the world's stage, you'll find a deeply insecure man who is dragging his country down a rabbit hole, IMHO.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:32 pm

I only mentiond Trump because you brought him into the conversation, for some strange reason (obsession, maybe?). He had nothing to do with the conversation at all.
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:36 pm

anrec80 wrote:
What about Syria? USA are there, despite that nobody invited them there.

Donald Trump is not the USA! American troops have been invoved in Syria for years.
 
anrec80
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:46 am

At the mean time:

https://themoscowtimes.com/news/russian ... tion-62925

A pair of Russian men suspected of poisoning a former double agent and his daughter in Britain will reportedly be awarded a trademark for the production of chemical compounds and perfume.


“Petroff & Boshiroff”
 
anrec80
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:56 am

Braybuddy wrote:
Donald Trump is not the USA! American troops have been invoved in Syria for years.


And what does that change? Syria is its own country with its own legitimate leadership. Nobody invited you there nonetheless.
 
anrec80
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:58 am

Braybuddy wrote:
"Invaded" as in permanently annexed or occupied.


The word “invaded” generally means “went in without proper permission or invitation”. Regardless, temporary or permanently.
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:34 am

anrec80 wrote:
And what does that change? Syria is its own country with its own legitimate leadership. Nobody invited you there nonetheless.

You appeared to be suggesting that Donald Trump had invaded Syria.
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:37 am

anrec80 wrote:
The word “invaded” generally means “went in without proper permission or invitation”. Regardless, temporary or permanently.

Far be it for me to stand up for Donald Trump, but as far as I know he hasn't done either.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:30 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Braybuddy wrote:
Donald Trump is not the USA! American troops have been invoved in Syria for years.


And what does that change? Syria is its own country with its own legitimate leadership. Nobody invited you there nonetheless.


There is international law, besides are we going to have an argument again about the legitimacy of a government killing its own people?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
anrec80
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:35 pm

Dutchy wrote:
There is international law, besides are we going to have an argument again about the legitimacy of a government killing its own people?


For the international law instances, there is United Nations Security Council that can provide and scope the mandate for an enforcement action. Nobody issued any such mandates to the USA for presence in Syria.

Speaking of killings - there is generally court that needs to find those responsible guilty. Yes, there are instances when latter is out of reach, but even then the USA and even some “world community” aren’t a replacement for such court. There is no argument over this.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:05 pm

whatever. Same old utter bull. Just your typical uninteresting Russian propaganda.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
anrec80
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:28 pm

[*]
Dutchy wrote:
whatever. Same old utter bull. Just your typical uninteresting Russian propaganda.


This is not “propaganda” Dutchy. This is exactly the “international law” you are talking about.
 
DGVT
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:49 am

anrec80 wrote:
[*]
Dutchy wrote:
whatever. Same old utter bull. Just your typical uninteresting Russian propaganda.


This is not “propaganda” Dutchy. This is exactly the “international law” you are talking about.


Must agree with that. USA has absolutely no right to be in Syria. United Nations Security Council didn't provide them with a mandate.

On the other hand, was just thinking about this. Did the United Nations Security Council provide Russia with a mandate when they took over Crimea? You know the chicken or the egg?
 
anrec80
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:30 am

DGVT wrote:
On the other hand, was just thinking about this. Did the United Nations Security Council provide Russia with a mandate when they took over Crimea? You know the chicken or the egg?


Crimea is a different thing. During 2014 polls, local residents expressed their desire to break away from Ukraine and join Russian Federation. The referendum was organized by their own Parliament, elected by them. Crimea was first acknowledged as an independent state, and then accepted into Russian Federation.

This falls under the right of nations to self-determination.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:42 am

anrec80 wrote:
DGVT wrote:
On the other hand, was just thinking about this. Did the United Nations Security Council provide Russia with a mandate when they took over Crimea? You know the chicken or the egg?


Crimea is a different thing. During 2014 polls, local residents expressed their desire to break away from Ukraine and join Russian Federation. The referendum was organized by their own Parliament, elected by them. Crimea was first acknowledged as an independent state, and then accepted into Russian Federation.

This falls under the right of nations to self-determination.


That referendum organized in a day with the armed green men from Russia. People never voted to leave Ukraine and even if we follow your view of things, it is an illegal break away from Ukraine because it was against the Ukrainian constitution.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:49 am

DGVT wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
[*]
Dutchy wrote:
whatever. Same old utter bull. Just your typical uninteresting Russian propaganda.


This is not “propaganda” Dutchy. This is exactly the “international law” you are talking about.


Must agree with that. USA has absolutely no right to be in Syria. United Nations Security Council didn't provide them with a mandate.


Not really, there are more ways then alone the UNSC. One thing is the need to protect civilian populations against mass murders. This point was made in the Dutch parliament, before joining the fight and they found legitimation within the international law. UNSC is the preferred way of course, but with the veto right of Russia, there is no way it will pass in the UNSC.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
anrec80
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:52 am

Dutchy wrote:
That referendum organized in a day with the armed green men from Russia. People never voted to leave Ukraine and even if we follow your view of things, it is an illegal break away from Ukraine because it was against the Ukrainian constitution.


If you look at Kosovo precedent - the Internaional Court ruled that the independence polls don’t have to be compliant with the legislature of the whole country. I.e. Crimea was not required to follow Ukrainian legislature to organize the referendum. Timing wise - there are no specific requirements how far in adnavce such voting needs to be organized.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:00 am

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
That referendum organized in a day with the armed green men from Russia. People never voted to leave Ukraine and even if we follow your view of things, it is an illegal break away from Ukraine because it was against the Ukrainian constitution.


If you look at Kosovo precedent - the Internaional Court ruled that the independence polls don’t have to be compliant with the legislature of the whole country. I.e. Crimea was not required to follow Ukrainian legislature to organize the referendum. Timing wise - there are no specific requirements how far in adnavce such voting needs to be organized.


You defend it because it is Russia's point of view, which is fine, but nobody believes it to be a fair and independent so it is laughable to suggest it is. Any rational thinker and someone whom truly would like to follow international law, not to the letter, but also the spirit of it, would judge a referendum organized within a week of "independence" is utter bull. No one can organize this truly free within a week with a lot of tensions there and there was no option to rejoin Ukraine. That's why no independent observers were there, they didn't want to be misused in the propaganda of Russia. And we know that there has been a massive fraud with this "referendum".
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:13 am

Dutchy wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
Braybuddy wrote:
Donald Trump is not the USA! American troops have been invoved in Syria for years.


And what does that change? Syria is its own country with its own legitimate leadership. Nobody invited you there nonetheless.


There is international law, besides are we going to have an argument again about the legitimacy of a government killing its own people?

Oh, ask this question to the Ukrainian government, which is killing its people in the Donbas. Is the government in Kiev legitimate enough?
 
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:27 am

DGVT wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
[*]
Dutchy wrote:
whatever. Same old utter bull. Just your typical uninteresting Russian propaganda.


This is not “propaganda” Dutchy. This is exactly the “international law” you are talking about.


Must agree with that. USA has absolutely no right to be in Syria. United Nations Security Council didn't provide them with a mandate.

On the other hand, was just thinking about this. Did the United Nations Security Council provide Russia with a mandate when they took over Crimea? You know the chicken or the egg?

If you appeal to the question of chicken and eggs, answer:
1. Who gave the mandate of the US invasion in Vietnam?
2. Who gave the mandate of the US invasion of Yugoslavia?
3. Who gave the us mandate to invade Iraq?
4. Who gave the us the mandate to invade Afghanistan?

All of these cases of us military aggression occurred before the events in Crimea.
Also answer, what sanctions were applied to the United States by the international community in response to the above cases of military aggression?
 
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:51 am

Scorpius wrote:
DGVT wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
[*]

This is not “propaganda” Dutchy. This is exactly the “international law” you are talking about.


Must agree with that. USA has absolutely no right to be in Syria. United Nations Security Council didn't provide them with a mandate.

On the other hand, was just thinking about this. Did the United Nations Security Council provide Russia with a mandate when they took over Crimea? You know the chicken or the egg?

If you appeal to the question of chicken and eggs, answer:
1. Who gave the mandate of the US invasion in Vietnam?
2. Who gave the mandate of the US invasion of Yugoslavia?
3. Who gave the us mandate to invade Iraq?
4. Who gave the us the mandate to invade Afghanistan?

All of these cases of us military aggression occurred before the events in Crimea.
Also answer, what sanctions were applied to the United States by the international community in response to the above cases of military aggression?


1. The French whom were the colonial power at the time.
2. The US didn't invade Yugoslavia, if you mean the bombings of Servia, it was to stop genocide.
3. First Iraq war, it was the UN. The second they didn't have a mandate, so indeed it was illegal.
4. UNSC.

But the most important thing, if one country does something wrong, it doesn't mean you can just do it yourself. And in the case of Crimea, it was annexed, which is the next step, wouldn't you agree?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:41 pm

Dutchy wrote:
1. The French whom were the colonial power at the time.
2. The US didn't invade Yugoslavia, if you mean the bombings of Servia, it was to stop genocide.
3. First Iraq war, it was the UN. The second they didn't have a mandate, so indeed it was illegal.
4. UNSC.

But the most important thing, if one country does something wrong, it doesn't mean you can just do it yourself. And in the case of Crimea, it was annexed, which is the next step, wouldn't you agree?


The essence of international agreements is their universal commitment. If someone doesn't observe them, and thus isn't punished - these arrangements don't make sense.
Thus, if the international community believes that no country has the right to carry out military aggression without UN sanctions-first, the international community is obliged to remove all its armed forces from Syria, punish the United States for their illegal military aggression, and only then ask the question of how to qualify Russia's actions. Moreover, Russia did not carry out an armed seizure of territories - these territories became part of Russia in accordance with international law. Just because you refuse to admit it doesn't mean anything. You turn a blind eye to illegal actions on the part of the United States - which means that you are biased in your assessments.
 
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:01 pm

Scorpius wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
1. The French whom were the colonial power at the time.
2. The US didn't invade Yugoslavia, if you mean the bombings of Servia, it was to stop genocide.
3. First Iraq war, it was the UN. The second they didn't have a mandate, so indeed it was illegal.
4. UNSC.

But the most important thing, if one country does something wrong, it doesn't mean you can just do it yourself. And in the case of Crimea, it was annexed, which is the next step, wouldn't you agree?


The essence of international agreements is their universal commitment. If someone doesn't observe them, and thus isn't punished - these arrangements don't make sense.
Thus, if the international community believes that no country has the right to carry out military aggression without UN sanctions-first, the international community is obliged to remove all its armed forces from Syria, punish the United States for their illegal military aggression, and only then ask the question of how to qualify Russia's actions. Moreover, Russia did not carry out an armed seizure of territories - these territories became part of Russia in accordance with international law. Just because you refuse to admit it doesn't mean anything. You turn a blind eye to illegal actions on the part of the United States - which means that you are biased in your assessments.


There are many agreed international laws, protecting harmless citizens are among them. UN sanctions aren't needed. I don't know the exact rationale for getting involved in Syria, but like I said, our Parliament made a big point about this before giving the go-ahead to send our F-16's in. This was mainly done because they don't want to repeat the second Gulf war.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:18 pm

Dutchy wrote:
There are many agreed international laws, protecting harmless citizens are among them. UN sanctions aren't needed. I don't know the exact rationale for getting involved in Syria, but like I said, our Parliament made a big point about this before giving the go-ahead to send our F-16's in. This was mainly done because they don't want to repeat the second Gulf war.

There are global agreements, according to which no country in the world has the right to military aggression without UN sanctions. The only exception is self-defense.

Right tomorrow, Putin may say that the citizens of Alabama are defenseless against the trump regime. Or, for example, to declare that the native American population needs protection from the American regime. Does this mean that Russia will have the right to strike at the US and overthrow the government there?
You think the answer to that question is Yes.
 
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:22 pm

Scorpius wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
There are many agreed international laws, protecting harmless citizens are among them. UN sanctions aren't needed. I don't know the exact rationale for getting involved in Syria, but like I said, our Parliament made a big point about this before giving the go-ahead to send our F-16's in. This was mainly done because they don't want to repeat the second Gulf war.

There are global agreements, according to which no country in the world has the right to military aggression without UN sanctions. The only exception is self-defense.

Right tomorrow, Putin may say that the citizens of Alabama are defenseless against the trump regime. Or, for example, to declare that the native American population needs protection from the American regime. Does this mean that Russia will have the right to strike at the US and overthrow the government there?
You think the answer to that question is Yes.


You can ridicule things all you want, but if the US government were to kill off native American population, I would say Russia has the right to intervene, even the moral duty. The world committed to never have a genocide again, unfortunately, we have seen it a number of times.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:12 pm

New edition of "Military acceptance" at the end of military exercises Vostok-2018. There are automatic subtitles.
https://youtu.be/ofWHni1vEVQ
 
Scorpius
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Re: From Russia with true vol. 2

Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:14 pm

Scorpius wrote:
New edition of "Military acceptance" at the end of military exercises Vostok-2018. There are automatic subtitles.
https://youtu.be/ofWHni1vEVQ

Bonus: count the number of helicopters in the frame.
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