https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-brit ... SKBN1JH3EV

Great article from reuters about potential hangups of brexit on Airbus

Sure we want to have this discussed in Civil Aviation...........

Wondered how long it would take for this to become public. Potential loss of 14,000+ jobs in the UK

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... nario.html

The panic concern appears to be loss of Easa certification on components which will bring production to a halt worldwide for Airbus. I do not want to get into the politics of another country but this what the brexiters do not understand. This is not some threat- this is the no2 aircraft manufacturer in the world having to do what is necessary to stay in business. It will be a sad day for U.K aersopace if Airbus wings start getting built in a Spirit factory in the southern U.S along with many other components.

Yeah it`s tough, there was no need for a nasty divorce, but it seems the EU true to form, won`t deal in a sensible way
& big businesses with large workforces like Airbus UK will suffer as a result. At the end of the day democracy must
win out, & in spite of massively pro EU press, disgusting behavior by certain MP`s, House of Lords, & business leaders,
& including many pro EU voters stirring things up because they only agree with democratic principles if it goes their way,
we have voted by a good majority to leave, & we are leaving regardless of these threats.

Tedd wrote:

...we have voted by a good majority to leave, & we are leaving regardless of these threats.

Go with God, but go.

The Airbus facilities in the other EU countries and worldwide will be happy to do the work, formerly done in the UK.

I'm an Airbus shareholder and I expect, that every man at Airbus will do his duty to keep the company profitable and competetive. If the Britons no longer want to play with us, so be it.

Tedd wrote:

Yeah it`s tough, there was no need for a nasty divorce, but it seems the EU true to form, won`t deal in a sensible way
& big businesses with large workforces like Airbus UK will suffer as a result. At the end of the day democracy must
win out, & in spite of massively pro EU press, disgusting behavior by certain MP`s, House of Lords, & business leaders,
& including many pro EU voters stirring things up because they only agree with democratic principles if it goes their way,
we have voted by a good majority to leave, & we are leaving regardless of these threats.

Actually, there are around 100000 jobs affected if Airbus decides to leave. Siemens mentioned it would scale down too and so will many more businesses. But hey, a vote is a vote and who cares if millions of jobs are gone. At least you’ll be happy and that’s what matters the most.

GLANKG wrote:

you can vote to leave the EU, but Airbus cannot protect its interest?

I don't think that that was his point. If Airbus can get large and small components from the U.S., which is certainly not in the EU, it would be wrong in so many ways for the EU to decertify wings made in the U.K.

Tedd wrote:

Yeah it`s tough, there was no need for a nasty divorce, but it seems the EU true to form, won`t deal in a sensible way
& big businesses with large workforces like Airbus UK will suffer as a result. At the end of the day democracy must
win out, & in spite of massively pro EU press, disgusting behavior by certain MP`s, House of Lords, & business leaders,
& including many pro EU voters stirring things up because they only agree with democratic principles if it goes their way,
we have voted by a good majority to leave, & we are leaving regardless of these threats.

Nice, the UK has not even laid down what it actually wants, yet the EU is to blame for the UK not getting it. And if you think the EU is playing nasty, imagine they would offer EU money for co-operations relocating their production facilities to the EU27. (and yes, it would be legal)

nikeherc wrote:

GLANKG wrote:

you can vote to leave the EU, but Airbus cannot protect its interest?

I don't think that that was his point. If Airbus can get large and small components from the U.S., which is certainly not in the EU, it would be wrong in so many ways for the EU to decertify wings made in the U.K.

There are agreements in place for trade between the US and the EU. There is no single agreement for the time after Brexit neither does anyone know what Brexit will look like. So, how would you except a company to plan ahead? Time is ticking and fast!

Heinkel wrote:

Tedd wrote:

...we have voted by a good majority to leave, & we are leaving regardless of these threats.

Go with God, but go.

The Airbus facilities in the other EU countries and worldwide will be happy to do the work, formerly done in the UK.

I'm an Airbus shareholder and I expect, that every man at Airbus will do his duty to keep the company profitable and competetive. If the Britons no longer want to play with us, so be it.

You`d get no arguments from me on your opinion. I don`t blame AB doing what it has to stay competative & if it means
these job losses so be it. Your "Go with God, but go" is also apt, it`s something that we should have done right after
the vote to leave, as soon as we knew the EU weren`t going to be compliant to a business deal, that was the signal to
say goodbye & do it without delay. What has gone on is a travesty by both sides.

Tedd wrote:

Yeah it`s tough, there was no need for a nasty divorce, but it seems the EU true to form, won`t deal in a sensible way
& big businesses with large workforces like Airbus UK will suffer as a result. At the end of the day democracy must
win out, & in spite of massively pro EU press, disgusting behavior by certain MP`s, House of Lords, & business leaders,
& including many pro EU voters stirring things up because they only agree with democratic principles if it goes their way,
we have voted by a good majority to leave, & we are leaving regardless of these threats.

The UK made an ill-informed if democratic decision. I find it rich that the EU is getting blamed for this, since the UK certainly has not made any significant effort to pull off a soft-exit and play particularly nice. But, beyond that, the UK now has to face the realities of the decision it's made while also facing the reality that it really doesn't have much of a powerful position to negotiate from. I ask you Tedd: What reason does the EU have to be 'sensible' (aka, kind to the UK) about this? Why should the EU strive to protect UK jobs? Is it not more within its interests to have those 14,000 jobs moved to somewhere within the EU? Isn't that the whole point of Brexit? The Brexit decision fundamentally shifted some power to the UK (re: its own internal finances and regulation) but it also shifted a tremendous amount of power to the EU. You can't get upset about what they're doing when you voluntarily chose to leave the club.

Blame this all you want on the EU, but this is the result of the UK's decision and Airbus' need to protect its business.

At least the NHS gets 300mill a week.

Wasn't life so much more simpler 50 yrs ago.

Tedd wrote:

Heinkel wrote:

Tedd wrote:

...we have voted by a good majority to leave, & we are leaving regardless of these threats.

Go with God, but go.

The Airbus facilities in the other EU countries and worldwide will be happy to do the work, formerly done in the UK.

I'm an Airbus shareholder and I expect, that every man at Airbus will do his duty to keep the company profitable and competetive. If the Britons no longer want to play with us, so be it.

You`d get no arguments from me on your opinion. I don`t blame AB doing what it has to stay competative & if it means
these job losses so be it. Your "Go with God, but go" is also apt, it`s something that we should have done right after
the vote to leave, as soon as we knew the EU weren`t going to be compliant to a business deal, that was the signal to
say goodbye & do it without delay. What has gone on is a travesty by both sides.

If the EU won’t agree to a deal that allows frictionless trade of these goods the UK needs to shut down delivery ASAP while they still have leverage. Don’t wait on them to put in place alternative solutions with regards to Airbus. It’s good leverage and those planes aren’t leaving the factory if the UK government doesn’t deliver the wings (and engines for many) for them.

seahawk wrote:

Tedd wrote:

Yeah it`s tough, there was no need for a nasty divorce, but it seems the EU true to form, won`t deal in a sensible way
& big businesses with large workforces like Airbus UK will suffer as a result. At the end of the day democracy must
win out, & in spite of massively pro EU press, disgusting behavior by certain MP`s, House of Lords, & business leaders,
& including many pro EU voters stirring things up because they only agree with democratic principles if it goes their way,
we have voted by a good majority to leave, & we are leaving regardless of these threats.

Nice, the UK has not even laid down what it actually wants, yet the EU is to blame for the UK not getting it. And if you think the EU is playing nasty, imagine they would offer EU money for co-operations relocating their production facilities to the EU27. (and yes, it would be legal)

No it`s not nice. The UK knows what it wants, & the people know what it wants, a quick palatable seperation that was
never going to happen due to the UK`s weak politicians, & the EU leadership which were never in the business of allowing
a major contributer to leave easily. Regardless of your opinions, I`m a UK resident, I voted leave & we should have been
gone well before now, it`s scandalous we are still procrastinating in fruitless negotiations.

There is no reason why Airbus should leave the UK in the event of a no-deal Brexit,.WTO rules exempt civilian aircraft and their parts from tariffs:

https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/ci ... vair_e.htm

Tedd wrote:

seahawk wrote:

Tedd wrote:

Yeah it`s tough, there was no need for a nasty divorce, but it seems the EU true to form, won`t deal in a sensible way
& big businesses with large workforces like Airbus UK will suffer as a result. At the end of the day democracy must
win out, & in spite of massively pro EU press, disgusting behavior by certain MP`s, House of Lords, & business leaders,
& including many pro EU voters stirring things up because they only agree with democratic principles if it goes their way,
we have voted by a good majority to leave, & we are leaving regardless of these threats.

Nice, the UK has not even laid down what it actually wants, yet the EU is to blame for the UK not getting it. And if you think the EU is playing nasty, imagine they would offer EU money for co-operations relocating their production facilities to the EU27. (and yes, it would be legal)

No it`s not nice. The UK knows what it wants, & the people know what it wants, a quick palatable seperation that was
never going to happen due to the UK`s weak politicians, & the EU leadership which were never in the business of allowing
a major contributer to leave easily. Regardless of your opinions, I`m a UK resident, I voted leave & we should have been
gone well before now, it`s scandalous we are still procrastinating in fruitless negotiations.

See, it is easy. Your leaders can end the negotiations any time, the rest is automatic.

Tedd wrote:

The UK knows what it wants, & the people know what it wants

No.
Only a slight majority of people knew what they wanted at the time of the referendum, and an insignificant portion of these knew what Brexit entailed at the political level or even had a clue about the greater repercussions of the idea. Most people wanted out based on simplistic and populist slogans mostly based around immigration and subsidizing French farmers or nonsense like that.

The fact remains that there was and still is a large portion of the UK electorate who did not want this, and the UK being a representative democracy, the politicians who represent them are pulling the rope towards their side as hard as they can. This is how it works, and if you respect the democratic process as much as you say you do, then you should understand this.

As for Airbus, they say it isn't a threat, and I believe them. They have no reason or political motivation to do such threats. They're just looking after their business. I'm pretty sure they would very much rather not go through the process of having to shift an established and significant proportion of their production to somewhere else, especially considering how much it would cost them to do so.

Tedd wrote:

Yeah it`s tough, there was no need for a nasty divorce, but it seems the EU true to form, won`t deal in a sensible way
& big businesses with large workforces like Airbus UK will suffer as a result. At the end of the day democracy must
win out, & in spite of massively pro EU press, disgusting behavior by certain MP`s, House of Lords, & business leaders,
& including many pro EU voters stirring things up because they only agree with democratic principles if it goes their way,
we have voted by a good majority to leave, & we are leaving regardless of these threats.

You’re being a bit silly here Teddy, this is all on the people from middle England who have screwed the UK for everyone else. The next big employers to leave will be the motor and heavy machinery manufacturers.

Laidback4 wrote:

There is no reason why Airbus should leave the UK in the event of a no-deal Brexit,.WTO rules exempt civilian aircraft and their parts from tariffs:

https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/ci ... vair_e.htm

It’s not that simple I am afraid!

bigjku wrote:

If the EU won’t agree

There you have the typical view of the average Brexiteer: "It's all the EU's fault"

The type of person who'd get drunk, fall down the stairs and split their head open. And then have the audacity to blame the doctor for getting blood on his shirt!

The UK made the decision, it must accept the consequences of it without blaming others!

EChid wrote:

Tedd wrote:

Yeah it`s tough, there was no need for a nasty divorce, but it seems the EU true to form, won`t deal in a sensible way
& big businesses with large workforces like Airbus UK will suffer as a result. At the end of the day democracy must
win out, & in spite of massively pro EU press, disgusting behavior by certain MP`s, House of Lords, & business leaders,
& including many pro EU voters stirring things up because they only agree with democratic principles if it goes their way,
we have voted by a good majority to leave, & we are leaving regardless of these threats.

The UK made an ill-informed if democratic decision. I find it rich that the EU is getting blamed for this, since the UK certainly has not made any significant effort to pull off a soft-exit and play particularly nice. But, beyond that, the UK now has to face the realities of the decision it's made while also facing the reality that it really doesn't have much of a powerful position to negotiate from. I ask you Tedd: What reason does the EU have to be 'sensible' (aka, kind to the UK) about this? Why should the EU strive to protect UK jobs? Is it not more within its interests to have those 14,000 jobs moved to somewhere within the EU? Isn't that the whole point of Brexit? The Brexit decision fundamentally shifted some power to the UK (re: its own internal finances and regulation) but it also shifted a tremendous amount of power to the EU. You can't get upset about what they're doing when you voluntarily chose to leave the club.

Blame this all you want on the EU, but this is the result of the UK's decision and Airbus' need to protect its business.

No they didn`t make a ill-informed decision. Those that sugest it are just the people that don`t like/want it. It`s also nonsence
to suggest the UK hasn`t made efforts for a decent seperation, you`ve been reading too much biased press. Seems to me
they`ve been bending over backwards to the point I find nauseating. The EU have no reason to be kind toward the UK. It
never happened while we`ve been a member so it wasn`t to be expected in negociations, but as I suggested it would have
been in the interests of both parties to have had a clean divorce rather than not. It`s not just the UK that suffers as a result,
& this is the stupidity of the EU leadership in doing something detrimental to it`s own because they can, & can get away with
it. The EU`s power as you call it is fundamentaly weakened without the UK, surely you understand that, but obviously in relation
to the UK-only they may hold more cards in trade, but it`s a dangerous gambit in a world where China & Russia are looking
at expansion in military sphere`s.

Kiwirob wrote:

Tedd wrote:

Yeah it`s tough, there was no need for a nasty divorce, but it seems the EU true to form, won`t deal in a sensible way
& big businesses with large workforces like Airbus UK will suffer as a result. At the end of the day democracy must
win out, & in spite of massively pro EU press, disgusting behavior by certain MP`s, House of Lords, & business leaders,
& including many pro EU voters stirring things up because they only agree with democratic principles if it goes their way,
we have voted by a good majority to leave, & we are leaving regardless of these threats.

You’re being a bit silly here Teddy, this is all on the white trash unemployable people from middle England who have screwed the UK for everyone else. The next big employers to leave will be the motor and heavy machinery manufacturers.

You`ve got be here, I have no idea what you`re on about!

Didn’t the areas around Broughton vote to leave? I can’t be bothered to check, but if that is the case then nobody else to blame but themselves if it happens.

And the British government has no plan, that much seems clear. What a mess.

Kiwirob wrote:

You’re being a bit silly here Teddy, this is all on the white trash unemployable people from middle England who have screwed the UK for everyone else. The next big employers to leave will be the motor and heavy machinery manufacturers.

Brexit reminds me of the Cold War era cartoon of a disheveled man sitting in ruins with death and distruction and mushroom clouds all around fist-pumping the air and shouting "we won"!

bigjku wrote:

Tedd wrote:

Heinkel wrote:

Go with God, but go.

The Airbus facilities in the other EU countries and worldwide will be happy to do the work, formerly done in the UK.

I'm an Airbus shareholder and I expect, that every man at Airbus will do his duty to keep the company profitable and competetive. If the Britons no longer want to play with us, so be it.

You`d get no arguments from me on your opinion. I don`t blame AB doing what it has to stay competative & if it means
these job losses so be it. Your "Go with God, but go" is also apt, it`s something that we should have done right after
the vote to leave, as soon as we knew the EU weren`t going to be compliant to a business deal, that was the signal to
say goodbye & do it without delay. What has gone on is a travesty by both sides.

If the EU won’t agree to a deal that allows frictionless trade of these goods the UK needs to shut down delivery ASAP while they still have leverage. Don’t wait on them to put in place alternative solutions with regards to Airbus. It’s good leverage and those planes aren’t leaving the factory if the UK government doesn’t deliver the wings (and engines for many) for them.

Sorry, what are you on about? "The UK government doesn't deliver the wings"?? That factory is Airbus property, not UK government property. And now, pre-Brexit, it would indeed be illegal to stop deliveries by arbitrary laws or government decrees. Post-Brexit is another issue, although even then, the UK will have to adhere to WTO rules.

Tedd wrote:

Kiwirob wrote:

Tedd wrote:

Yeah it`s tough, there was no need for a nasty divorce, but it seems the EU true to form, won`t deal in a sensible way
& big businesses with large workforces like Airbus UK will suffer as a result. At the end of the day democracy must
win out, & in spite of massively pro EU press, disgusting behavior by certain MP`s, House of Lords, & business leaders,
& including many pro EU voters stirring things up because they only agree with democratic principles if it goes their way,
we have voted by a good majority to leave, & we are leaving regardless of these threats.

You’re being a bit silly here Teddy, this is all on the white trash unemployable people from middle England who have screwed the UK for everyone else. The next big employers to leave will be the motor and heavy machinery manufacturers.

You`ve got be here, I have no idea what you`re on about!

I’m in the UK every few weeks with my job, I’ve hardly met anyone who voted to leave, leavers in the wild are rarer than hens teeth.

bigjku wrote:

If the EU won’t agree to a deal that allows frictionless trade of these goods the UK needs to shut down delivery ASAP while they still have leverage. Don’t wait on them to put in place alternative solutions with regards to Airbus. It’s good leverage and those planes aren’t leaving the factory if the UK government doesn’t deliver the wings (and engines for many) for them.

Who is "the UK" in this case? The Queen? The parliament? The government? The people? They all don't have the means to shut down delivery, because they don't produce and deliver anything.

And AFAIK the UK government never delivered any wings or engines.

Those parts were produced by private companies in the UK.

Ok, the workers can go on strike and ruin the industry, as they have done in the 1970s with the motorcycle industry, the car industry etc. The UK is quite de-industrialised today, they live mostly from some "financial products" from London City. Interesting times ahead. I wish the Britons the very best.

Tedd wrote:

EChid wrote:

Tedd wrote:

Yeah it`s tough, there was no need for a nasty divorce, but it seems the EU true to form, won`t deal in a sensible way
& big businesses with large workforces like Airbus UK will suffer as a result. At the end of the day democracy must
win out, & in spite of massively pro EU press, disgusting behavior by certain MP`s, House of Lords, & business leaders,
& including many pro EU voters stirring things up because they only agree with democratic principles if it goes their way,
we have voted by a good majority to leave, & we are leaving regardless of these threats.

The UK made an ill-informed if democratic decision. I find it rich that the EU is getting blamed for this, since the UK certainly has not made any significant effort to pull off a soft-exit and play particularly nice. But, beyond that, the UK now has to face the realities of the decision it's made while also facing the reality that it really doesn't have much of a powerful position to negotiate from. I ask you Tedd: What reason does the EU have to be 'sensible' (aka, kind to the UK) about this? Why should the EU strive to protect UK jobs? Is it not more within its interests to have those 14,000 jobs moved to somewhere within the EU? Isn't that the whole point of Brexit? The Brexit decision fundamentally shifted some power to the UK (re: its own internal finances and regulation) but it also shifted a tremendous amount of power to the EU. You can't get upset about what they're doing when you voluntarily chose to leave the club.

Blame this all you want on the EU, but this is the result of the UK's decision and Airbus' need to protect its business.

No they didn`t make a ill-informed decision. Those that sugest it are just the people that don`t like/want it. It`s also nonsence
to suggest the UK hasn`t made efforts for a decent seperation, you`ve been reading too much biased press. Seems to me
they`ve been bending over backwards to the point I find nauseating. The EU have no reason to be kind toward the UK. It
never happened while we`ve been a member so it wasn`t to be expected in negociations, but as I suggested it would have
been in the interests of both parties to have had a clean divorce rather than not. It`s not just the UK that suffers as a result,
& this is the stupidity of the EU leadership in doing something detrimental to it`s own because they can, & can get away with
it. The EU`s power as you call it is fundamentaly weakened without the UK, surely you understand that, but obviously in relation
to the UK-only they may hold more cards in trade, but it`s a dangerous gambit in a world where China & Russia are looking
at expansion in military sphere`s.

What do you do for a living if you don’t mind me asking?

Tedd wrote:

Kiwirob wrote:

Tedd wrote:

Yeah it`s tough, there was no need for a nasty divorce, but it seems the EU true to form, won`t deal in a sensible way
& big businesses with large workforces like Airbus UK will suffer as a result. At the end of the day democracy must
win out, & in spite of massively pro EU press, disgusting behavior by certain MP`s, House of Lords, & business leaders,
& including many pro EU voters stirring things up because they only agree with democratic principles if it goes their way,
we have voted by a good majority to leave, & we are leaving regardless of these threats.

You’re being a bit silly here Teddy, this is all on the white trash unemployable people from middle England who have screwed the UK for everyone else. The next big employers to leave will be the motor and heavy machinery manufacturers.

You`ve got be here, I have no idea what you`re on about!

Ted you're clueless on how this actually works. The UK needs the EU trade, not the other way around. We are demanding to get all the benefit of the EU without paying our way like the rest of EU. Why should we get free trade if we want to leave? Why should we get the same funding as if we were in the EU ? all EU is doing is protecting the nations within it and they have every right to. The UK is extremely screwed if the EU doesnt allow us a trade agreement. It goes all the way from toothpaste to cars to planes to millions of jobs that rely on free trade with our neighbors.

edit - On top of that over 77 thousand trade agreements and laws need to be re-written and re-done, from supermarkets suppliers, to British people overseas rights to remain where they live in the EU its a complete car crash and ive not come across a single person who voted leave that has a genuine reason to leave the EU. Apparently MPs voted that if there is no trade agreement then we cannot leave, I hope that is the case.

In a normal world, Airbus would be mad as hell about the threat to their business that the UK and the EU are creating by not being sensible. But then again, they are part-owned by Germany and France, so they sing from the same hymn book. Maybe they will get cheap loans and other subsidies to relocate those plants, and Boeing can bitch about that. They are all behaving like children, jilted spouses, pick your analogy for a-holes.

Interesting that trade is now the big ticket item, it gives a false impression of the EU.

If parts developed in the UK cannot be certified for use on Airbus a/c then Airbus is in a pickle, since they cannot mandate that the EU allow UK parts, so Airbus strategy today should be to look at moving production elsewhere within the Euro zone. The entire factory could be dismantled and moved across the Irish sea, if the UK had some financial investment in the equipment it can be traded off against the divorce. I am hoping to see more details as to how many wings are currently in production and what the impact will be in the near term on new built a/c that cannot be certified for flight then sale to a customer, based on their delivery schedule, Airbus should have those numbers and dates, so .....let's get cracking.

G'day

Samrnpage wrote:

At least the NHS gets 300mill a week.

someone actually appears to believe this

Lord have mercy

Cheers

Peter

Tedd wrote:

EChid wrote:

Tedd wrote:

Yeah it`s tough, there was no need for a nasty divorce, but it seems the EU true to form, won`t deal in a sensible way
& big businesses with large workforces like Airbus UK will suffer as a result. At the end of the day democracy must
win out, & in spite of massively pro EU press, disgusting behavior by certain MP`s, House of Lords, & business leaders,
& including many pro EU voters stirring things up because they only agree with democratic principles if it goes their way,
we have voted by a good majority to leave, & we are leaving regardless of these threats.

The UK made an ill-informed if democratic decision. I find it rich that the EU is getting blamed for this, since the UK certainly has not made any significant effort to pull off a soft-exit and play particularly nice. But, beyond that, the UK now has to face the realities of the decision it's made while also facing the reality that it really doesn't have much of a powerful position to negotiate from. I ask you Tedd: What reason does the EU have to be 'sensible' (aka, kind to the UK) about this? Why should the EU strive to protect UK jobs? Is it not more within its interests to have those 14,000 jobs moved to somewhere within the EU? Isn't that the whole point of Brexit? The Brexit decision fundamentally shifted some power to the UK (re: its own internal finances and regulation) but it also shifted a tremendous amount of power to the EU. You can't get upset about what they're doing when you voluntarily chose to leave the club.

Blame this all you want on the EU, but this is the result of the UK's decision and Airbus' need to protect its business.

No they didn`t make a ill-informed decision. Those that sugest it are just the people that don`t like/want it. It`s also nonsence
to suggest the UK hasn`t made efforts for a decent seperation, you`ve been reading too much biased press. Seems to me
they`ve been bending over backwards to the point I find nauseating. The EU have no reason to be kind toward the UK. It
never happened while we`ve been a member so it wasn`t to be expected in negociations, but as I suggested it would have
been in the interests of both parties to have had a clean divorce rather than not. It`s not just the UK that suffers as a result,
& this is the stupidity of the EU leadership in doing something detrimental to it`s own because they can, & can get away with
it. The EU`s power as you call it is fundamentaly weakened without the UK, surely you understand that, but obviously in relation
to the UK-only they may hold more cards in trade, but it`s a dangerous gambit in a world where China & Russia are looking
at expansion in military sphere`s.

You do know that the UK was one of the major players in the EU and we clicked our fingers and the EU bent over backwards to please us at every turn. We wondered into brussles and they laid the red carpet as we were one of the 3 major countries. For example 25% of the NHS fundiing was from the EU member nations, plenty of local councils were paid for by the EU and nearly every university course across the country was funded by the EU because we have a massive deficit and all we had to do was ask the EU for it. The reason why they let us is because our GDP was so big it benefited every nation on the EU, so it was in the best interests to help us. But of course, uneducated people in economics blame the EU for their own shite lives and came up with nonsense to leave.

Francoflier wrote:

Tedd wrote:

The UK knows what it wants, & the people know what it wants

No.
Only a slight majority of people knew what they wanted at the time of the referendum, and an insignificant portion of these knew what Brexit entailed at the political level or even had a clue about the greater repercussions of the idea. Most people wanted out based on simplistic and populist slogans mostly based around immigration and subsidizing French farmers or nonsense like that.

The fact remains that there was and still is a large portion of the UK electorate who did not want this, and the UK being a representative democracy, the politicians who represent them are pulling the rope towards their side as hard as they can. This is how it works, and if you respect the democratic process as much as you say you do, then you should understand this.

As for Airbus, they say it isn't a threat, and I believe them. They have no reason or political motivation to do such threats. They're just looking after their business. I'm pretty sure they would very much rather not go through the process of having to shift an established and significant proportion of their production to somewhere else, especially considering how much it would cost them to do so.

Yes. You are so wrong! Whats this "Only a slight majority of people knew what they wanted at the time of the referendum" nonsense!
We had years of Brexit thoughts, hense a final vote. Also I can assure it wasn`t due to simplistic or populist ideals either. I could go into
hundreds of good reasons to pull up the EU anchor, but it would be pulled from these pages. We are sick of the EU elite, just as we are
of our own, telling us all what is good for us while paying dearly for the privilage. We`ve voted to leave & we are. If the EU don`t want a
favourable trade deal so be it. I wouldn`t blame AB for leaving, it`s their business. Lets have a tarif war & make things difficult for both
sides. The UK as a member never had a fair rub-of-the-green anyway, the Franco-German co-op saw to that, a clique that should never
have been allowed which was so detrimental to the ideal.

senatorflyer wrote:

Laidback4 wrote:

There is no reason why Airbus should leave the UK in the event of a no-deal Brexit,.WTO rules exempt civilian aircraft and their parts from tariffs:

https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/ci ... vair_e.htm

It’s not that simple I am afraid!

Can we please refrain from Brexit politics and focus on the aviation part of the equation?

As mentioned it is not only about importing the parts, it is about certification, workforce, traveling, paperwork and a million other things which will become more difficult and expensive compared to today.

What strucks me as strange is that Airbus has only 2 years to setup operations somewhere else. If I was them I would have started yesterday. Two years is not much of a time. I know a lot of people who work in various EU countries and already multinational companies have made plan B, C, D. Some of them actually are fully in the implementation stage hence I find it difficult to believe that work has not started since the Brexit vote in Airbus when it comes to alternative plans as I cannot believe Airbus waited until mid 2018 to assess the risk and make a decision.

Laidback4 wrote:

There is no reason why Airbus should leave the UK in the event of a no-deal Brexit,.WTO rules exempt civilian aircraft and their parts from tariffs:

https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/ci ... vair_e.htm

There are still issues.

The Customs Union driven Common EU Tarrif would no longer be in place in the UK in a no deal scenario. That means that while aircraft parts might be duty free, the components required to manufacture those parts will no be subject to tarriffs if they are imported from the EU (since a no deal scenario means that free trade between the EU and UK will die overnight). Additionally imports from other countries will now have issues since the UK loses access to EU negotiated agreements. And since, trade deals were always done at the EU level, the UK will find itself stuck with WTO baseline tarrifs and agreements so everything will be more expensive.

This in turn means it will cost everyone (including Airbus) more to manufacture. There's a fundamental cost problem in a no deal scenario. Staying in the Customs Union is a major priority for all manufacturers since it preserves existing EU trade treaties and ensures that all trade with the EU is duty free. Otherwise, manufacturing as a whole will become more expensive. We're in a global economy and losing access to EU negotiated trade treaties without replacements (which the UK won't have) will be highly destructive.

Airbus is a very political company. No doubt the German or French governments would love to create new investment and jobs in Hamburg or Toulouse!

Meanwhile, BCA is looking at higher prices to put together an Airbus and chuckling up their sleeves. Fight, fight, fight!

Tedd wrote:

Francoflier wrote:

Tedd wrote:

The UK knows what it wants, & the people know what it wants

No.
Only a slight majority of people knew what they wanted at the time of the referendum, and an insignificant portion of these knew what Brexit entailed at the political level or even had a clue about the greater repercussions of the idea. Most people wanted out based on simplistic and populist slogans mostly based around immigration and subsidizing French farmers or nonsense like that.

The fact remains that there was and still is a large portion of the UK electorate who did not want this, and the UK being a representative democracy, the politicians who represent them are pulling the rope towards their side as hard as they can. This is how it works, and if you respect the democratic process as much as you say you do, then you should understand this.

As for Airbus, they say it isn't a threat, and I believe them. They have no reason or political motivation to do such threats. They're just looking after their business. I'm pretty sure they would very much rather not go through the process of having to shift an established and significant proportion of their production to somewhere else, especially considering how much it would cost them to do so.

Yes. You are so wrong! Whats this "Only a slight majority of people knew what they wanted at the time of the referendum" nonsense!
We had years of Brexit thoughts, hense a final vote. Also I can assure it wasn`t due to simplistic or populist ideals either. I could go into
hundreds of good reasons to pull up the EU anchor, but it would be pulled from these pages. We are sick of the EU elite, just as we are
of our own, telling us all what is good for us while paying dearly for the privilage. We`ve voted to leave & we are. If the EU don`t want a
favourable trade deal so be it. I wouldn`t blame AB for leaving, it`s their business. Lets have a tarif war & make things difficult for both
sides. The UK as a member never had a fair rub-of-the-green anyway, the Franco-German co-op saw to that, a clique that should never
have been allowed which was so detrimental to the ideal.

Haha! Well, there might be this special Franco-German relationship going on because of the attitude of all previous and current Tory goverments not giving a sh*t. It always amazes me how the UK has a veto power but chooses just to complain without even trying to improve or change things. Pure stupidity!

Tedd wrote:

Kiwirob wrote:

Tedd wrote:

Yeah it`s tough, there was no need for a nasty divorce, but it seems the EU true to form, won`t deal in a sensible way
& big businesses with large workforces like Airbus UK will suffer as a result. At the end of the day democracy must
win out, & in spite of massively pro EU press, disgusting behavior by certain MP`s, House of Lords, & business leaders,
& including many pro EU voters stirring things up because they only agree with democratic principles if it goes their way,
we have voted by a good majority to leave, & we are leaving regardless of these threats.

You’re being a bit silly here Teddy, this is all on the white trash unemployable people from middle England who have screwed the UK for everyone else. The next big employers to leave will be the motor and heavy machinery manufacturers.

You`ve got be here, I have no idea what you`re on about!

The problem is that componentry for manufacturing comes from all over. So with no deal every individual component is subject to tariffs when imported into the UK, then the final product is subject to tariffs again when it is shipped out. For some industries China might be an alternative componentry supplier, provided the manufacturing price difference is big enough, but no UK government will welcome that because it gives the Chinese something over them. A lot will come down to how well the Chinese manufacturers market themselves, which isn't their strong point. It's probably not an option for Airbus either.

So, with the prospect of two way tariffs on hugely expensive manufacturing, in a price sensitive industry, no one should be shocked at this.

Unfortunately a lot of people, probably including those in North Wales and Chester who voted leave will be, because fact is most people have no working knowledge of this stuff.

Laidback4 wrote:

There is no reason why Airbus should leave the UK in the event of a no-deal Brexit,.WTO rules exempt civilian aircraft and their parts from tariffs:

https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/ci ... vair_e.htm

You can download and read the memo here. That is not what the Airbus risk assessment is laying out concerns about, the memo acknowledges the stage and impact of WTO rules. There are supply chain, regulatory, production, and cost consequences connected to doing business in a post-Brexit UK that Airbus sees as increasingly inevitable and detrimental to their interests even in what they've identified as the best case scenario.

http://www.airbus.com/company/worldwide ... ml#Economy

There are so many aspects here that will influence Airbus and indeed any multinational.

At its simplest and most basic it'll mean that the company will need to employ additional resources to manage the additional paperwork required for the cross border workers. Today workers can frequently be reassigned to work for a few weeks in another country and the only cost will be the travel and hotel bills. In the future there'll potentiall be additional costs for paperwork and work permits to add to this plus the additional people required to manage all of that. When it comes to new investment that'll work against the business case of having the work in the UK when you can plan rather for Spain, France or Germany. Would be interesting to know how the normal labour costs across the countries compare to see if the additional costs would tip the balance.

Additionally companies don't like uncertainty. Being in the EU will be seen as a more certain future than being in a UK that doesn't seem to know itself what it wants.

Tedd wrote:

Yeah it`s tough, there was no need for a nasty divorce, but it seems the EU true to form, won`t deal in a sensible way
& big businesses with large workforces like Airbus UK will suffer as a result. At the end of the day democracy must
win out, & in spite of massively pro EU press, disgusting behavior by certain MP`s, House of Lords, & business leaders,
& including many pro EU voters stirring things up because they only agree with democratic principles if it goes their way,
we have voted by a good majority to leave, & we are leaving regardless of these threats.

I agree 100%.

Airbus, like all other large industries in the UK will have to adapt to the situation. If the UK plays it's cards right (which it has not so far), it could be an even more thriving business enviroment than it has been previously.

SCQ83 wrote:

Airbus is a very political company. No doubt the German or French governments would love to create new investment and jobs in Hamburg or Toulouse!

This is silly. Airbus makes decisions based on cost and profit. They still have to compete and companies don't just randomly move large parts of the supply chain without having a reason that revolves around cost and profit.

One of the main benefits of the EU is that the combination of the customs union and single market created a truly frictionless trade environment which allowed manufacturers to locate anywhere in Europe without national governments having the ability to craft regulations or imposing duties. The UK is opting out of this arrangement and is on the verge of exiting without an agreement with the EU. That is trading chaos that will cause a lot of manufacturers to flee back to the EU. It will end up being substantially more expensive to manufacture in the UK versus an EU country.

This is all on the UK and Airbus absolutely should complain. A critical part of their supply chain is going to be cut off from the EU and will be forced to operate at a substantially more expensive cost thanks to a no deal Brexit.

senatorflyer wrote:

Tedd wrote:

Francoflier wrote:

No.
Only a slight majority of people knew what they wanted at the time of the referendum, and an insignificant portion of these knew what Brexit entailed at the political level or even had a clue about the greater repercussions of the idea. Most people wanted out based on simplistic and populist slogans mostly based around immigration and subsidizing French farmers or nonsense like that.

The fact remains that there was and still is a large portion of the UK electorate who did not want this, and the UK being a representative democracy, the politicians who represent them are pulling the rope towards their side as hard as they can. This is how it works, and if you respect the democratic process as much as you say you do, then you should understand this.

As for Airbus, they say it isn't a threat, and I believe them. They have no reason or political motivation to do such threats. They're just looking after their business. I'm pretty sure they would very much rather not go through the process of having to shift an established and significant proportion of their production to somewhere else, especially considering how much it would cost them to do so.

Yes. You are so wrong! Whats this "Only a slight majority of people knew what they wanted at the time of the referendum" nonsense!
We had years of Brexit thoughts, hense a final vote. Also I can assure it wasn`t due to simplistic or populist ideals either. I could go into
hundreds of good reasons to pull up the EU anchor, but it would be pulled from these pages. We are sick of the EU elite, just as we are
of our own, telling us all what is good for us while paying dearly for the privilage. We`ve voted to leave & we are. If the EU don`t want a
favourable trade deal so be it. I wouldn`t blame AB for leaving, it`s their business. Lets have a tarif war & make things difficult for both
sides. The UK as a member never had a fair rub-of-the-green anyway, the Franco-German co-op saw to that, a clique that should never
have been allowed which was so detrimental to the ideal.

Haha! Well, there might be this special Franco-German relationship going on because of the attitude of all previous and current Tory goverments not giving a sh*t. It always amazes me how the UK has a veto power but chooses just to complain without even trying to improve or change things. Pure stupidity!

Its more ironic in that the single market was largely a UK initiative. Margaret Thatcher was the main cheerleader for the single market because it was essentially a radical multinational free market initiative. It eliminated the ability of countries in the EU to craft rules and regulations to limit competition within the Union. Several other countries were not in favor of the single market when the idea was proposed. And now the UK is existing because of the Single Market.

Could more of wing assembly be moved to the Airbus plants in China and the US?