DL717 wrote:

Who’s going to pay for it?

seb146 wrote:

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Trump.... "No due process for illegal immigrants."

“We cannot allow all of these people to invade our Country. When somebody comes in, we must immediately, with no Judges or Court Cases, take them back from where they came.”

Bravo Mr. Trump. Making our borders Great Again

So what if they are murdered in their own country? So what if they die of starvation or disease in their country? A Christian nation don't need no stinkin' compassion! We have tax cuts!

EDIT:

My bad. With the high cost and demands for for-profit health care (because, really, who needs health care?) I guess people would not be fleeing disease. With their "socialist" medicine, they probably have more affordable treatments than we do.

DIRECTFLT wrote:

seb146 wrote:

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Trump.... "No due process for illegal immigrants."

“We cannot allow all of these people to invade our Country. When somebody comes in, we must immediately, with no Judges or Court Cases, take them back from where they came.”

Bravo Mr. Trump. Making our borders Great Again

So what if they are murdered in their own country? So what if they die of starvation or disease in their country? A Christian nation don't need no stinkin' compassion! We have tax cuts!

EDIT:

My bad. With the high cost and demands for for-profit health care (because, really, who needs health care?) I guess people would not be fleeing disease. With their "socialist" medicine, they probably have more affordable treatments than we do.

seb146 wrote:

DIRECTFLT wrote:

seb146 wrote:

So what if they are murdered in their own country? So what if they die of starvation or disease in their country? A Christian nation don't need no stinkin' compassion! We have tax cuts!

EDIT:

My bad. With the high cost and demands for for-profit health care (because, really, who needs health care?) I guess people would not be fleeing disease. With their "socialist" medicine, they probably have more affordable treatments than we do.

What does a misquote from Clinton have to do with anything? GIYF

DIRECTFLT wrote:

seb146 wrote:

DIRECTFLT wrote:

What does a misquote from Clinton have to do with anything? GIYF

I'm not sure... I'll get back to you when I figure that out Seb.

Flighty wrote:

afcjets wrote:

Flighty wrote:

I don’t think children should grow up in criminal households - actually, we have laws against it. So it is not just me. Anyway, I am not a Christian.

So you think a child should be permanently separated from their parent (or at least until they're 18) if a parent ever commits a crime? What if their crime is writing a bad check? I am a Christian btw.

If you are IN JAIL, which is generally because you are suspected or convicted of committing crimes, your kid is NOT WITH YOU. That's the law. In every country on Earth. This is how humans do things. Hope this helps.

THS214 wrote:

Flighty wrote:

afcjets wrote:

So you think a child should be permanently separated from their parent (or at least until they're 18) if a parent ever commits a crime? What if their crime is writing a bad check? I am a Christian btw.

If you are IN JAIL, which is generally because you are suspected or convicted of committing crimes, your kid is NOT WITH YOU. That's the law. In every country on Earth. This is how humans do things. Hope this helps.

That is simply not true. We call it humanity. There are difference of a murderer or someone spending couple month in prison.
We care of the child not the parent.
Greetings from Finland

salttee wrote:

THS214 wrote:

Flighty wrote:

If you are IN JAIL, which is generally because you are suspected or convicted of committing crimes, your kid is NOT WITH YOU. That's the law. In every country on Earth. This is how humans do things. Hope this helps.

That is simply not true. We call it humanity. There are difference of a murderer or someone spending couple month in prison.
We care of the child not the parent.
Greetings from Finland

The "crime" these people committed was of such low level that a ten dollar fine was the end punishment.

One of our Supreme Court Justices talked about this very issue recently.
https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/cn ... r-employer

olle wrote:

I wonder;

Can you as a christian support a policy like the US Family separation?

NoTime wrote:

Can a christian support a policy like legal abortion?

salttee wrote:

One of our Supreme Court Justices talked about this very issue recently.
https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/cn ... r-employer

NoTime wrote:

olle wrote:

I wonder;

Can you as a christian support a policy like the US Family separation?

Interesting...

I wonder;

Can a christian support a policy like legal abortion?

NoTime wrote:

Mir wrote:

NoTime wrote:

Interesting...

I wonder;

Can a christian support a policy like legal abortion?

Sure. Legal abortion does not mean mandatory abortion. If you think they're immoral, don't get one. And feel free to encourage others not to get them as well. But don't force others to live by your moral code.

OK, so would the "don't force others to live by your moral code" also apply to the implementation of family separation?

Mir wrote:

NoTime wrote:

olle wrote:

I wonder;

Can you as a christian support a policy like the US Family separation?

Interesting...

I wonder;

Can a christian support a policy like legal abortion?

Sure. Legal abortion does not mean mandatory abortion. If you think they're immoral, don't get one. And feel free to encourage others not to get them as well. But don't force others to live by your moral code.

NoTime wrote:

olle wrote:

I wonder;

Can you as a christian support a policy like the US Family separation?

Interesting...

I wonder;

Can a christian support a policy like legal abortion?

NoTime wrote:

Mir wrote:

NoTime wrote:

Interesting...

I wonder;

Can a christian support a policy like legal abortion?

Sure. Legal abortion does not mean mandatory abortion. If you think they're immoral, don't get one. And feel free to encourage others not to get them as well. But don't force others to live by your moral code.

OK, so would the "don't force others to live by your moral code" also apply to the implementation of family separation?

afcjets wrote:

Until Trump's executive order, it was illegal for children to go to jail with their parents. .

American families are separated everyday when a parent goes to jail, which is very sad for the children, as it is sad for the children of detained illegal immigrants.

Ensuring that the unity of the refugee’s family is maintained

Prohibited penalties might include being charged with immigration or criminal offences relating to the seeking of asylum, or being arbitrarily detained purely on the basis of seeking asylum.

DL717 wrote:

Basic Question... Should a Christian feel compassion for a person breaking the law?

casinterest wrote:

DL717 wrote:

Basic Question... Should a Christian feel compassion for a person breaking the law?

Matthew 6:14-15
For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Mir wrote:

NoTime wrote:

Mir wrote:

Sure. Legal abortion does not mean mandatory abortion. If you think they're immoral, don't get one. And feel free to encourage others not to get them as well. But don't force others to live by your moral code.

OK, so would the "don't force others to live by your moral code" also apply to the implementation of family separation?

Abortion is, of course, not equivalent to the kidnapping of children.

DL717 wrote:

Basic Question... Should a Christian feel compassion for a person breaking the law?

NoTime wrote:

Correct. It's the equivalent of killing them.

NoTime wrote:

Mir wrote:

NoTime wrote:

OK, so would the "don't force others to live by your moral code" also apply to the implementation of family separation?

Abortion is, of course, not equivalent to the kidnapping of children.

Correct. It's the equivalent of killing them.

MaverickM11 wrote:

NoTime wrote:

Mir wrote:

Abortion is, of course, not equivalent to the kidnapping of children.

Correct. It's the equivalent of killing them.

Yah I'm sure a white nationalist incels really care about abortion. They just use it as a foil to make anything they do sound better. Evangelicals didn't even care about abortion until they realized continuing to push for segregation was a bad look. Now they can get both! #praisewhiteJesus

tommy1808 wrote:

DL717 wrote:

Basic Question... Should a Christian feel compassion for a person breaking the law?

Since they don´t break any valid laws, that ain´t a problem. Refugee seekers explicitly don´t break laws when they "illegally" cross a border.

NoTime wrote:

Correct. It's the equivalent of killing them.

Yeah, in the same sense you kill people by not having universal healthcare.

bagoldex wrote:

MaverickM11 wrote:

NoTime wrote:

Correct. It's the equivalent of killing them.

Yah I'm sure a white nationalist incels really care about abortion. They just use it as a foil to make anything they do sound better. Evangelicals didn't even care about abortion until they realized continuing to push for segregation was a bad look. Now they can get both! #praisewhiteJesus

They probably view rolling back abortion rights as a means of controlling and "punishing" women(torturing in reality, emotionally and physically).

VTKillarney1 wrote:

bagoldex wrote:

MaverickM11 wrote:

Yah I'm sure a white nationalist incels really care about abortion. They just use it as a foil to make anything they do sound better. Evangelicals didn't even care about abortion until they realized continuing to push for segregation was a bad look. Now they can get both! #praisewhiteJesus

They probably view rolling back abortion rights as a means of controlling and "punishing" women(torturing in reality, emotionally and physically).

Look, I am pro choice but I can certainly understand why someone would think that killing an unborn child is not an ethical response to failing to use a rubber because you were too horney.

Don’t assume that pro life advocates are necessarily motivated by evil and/or wanting to cause harm.

VTKillarney1 wrote:

Look, I am pro choice but I can certainly understand why someone would think that killing an unborn child is not an ethical response to failing to use a rubber because you were too horney.

bagoldex wrote:

If you can understand that point of view then you probably shouldn't be calling yourself pro-choice.

NoTime wrote:

olle wrote:

I wonder;

Can you as a christian support a policy like the US Family separation?

Interesting...

I wonder;

Can a christian support a policy like legal abortion?

seahawk wrote:

It is perfectly normal to separate criminals from their children. So why the outrage? The only thing to complain about is the long time it takes before the family is re-united in Mexico. It should take hours not months. Round them up, put them in a cattle car, truck them to the border, dump them, done. No judge, no jury, little costs. If they have money you take it to compensate for the cost of transportation.

olle wrote:

I wonder;

Can you as a christian support a policy like the US Family separation?

seb146 wrote:

seahawk wrote:

It is perfectly normal to separate criminals from their children. So why the outrage? The only thing to complain about is the long time it takes before the family is re-united in Mexico. It should take hours not months. Round them up, put them in a cattle car, truck them to the border, dump them, done. No judge, no jury, little costs. If they have money you take it to compensate for the cost of transportation.

And, if they die for some reason once they are back in Mexico (drug cartel shooting, starvation, disease, etc.) why the hell should we, as Christians, care? It is their own damn fault, right? They are just animals, as dear leader says. Right?

seahawk wrote:

seb146 wrote:

seahawk wrote:

It is perfectly normal to separate criminals from their children. So why the outrage? The only thing to complain about is the long time it takes before the family is re-united in Mexico. It should take hours not months. Round them up, put them in a cattle car, truck them to the border, dump them, done. No judge, no jury, little costs. If they have money you take it to compensate for the cost of transportation.

And, if they die for some reason once they are back in Mexico (drug cartel shooting, starvation, disease, etc.) why the hell should we, as Christians, care? It is their own damn fault, right? They are just animals, as dear leader says. Right?

They are just abound human resources with a very low value. Otherwise how can you have preachers collecting money for a private jet and not for those people... I dare say that the American evangelic movement is probably the most commercially organized faith in existence where earthly profit equals eternal blessing.

NoTime wrote:

Ha! Well, it looks like things haven't changed much around here over the last few months.

It's odd that folks on the left would choose to make immigration such a focal point of the political landscape, especially this close to the mid-terms. Border security is one of the primary reasons Trump got elected in the first place, and polling indicates that it's still an important issue (and not in the way the left wants it to be).

With so many other avenues of attack, why would they want to play to one of Trump's strengths?

seb146 wrote:

NoTime wrote:

Ha! Well, it looks like things haven't changed much around here over the last few months.

It's odd that folks on the left would choose to make immigration such a focal point of the political landscape, especially this close to the mid-terms. Border security is one of the primary reasons Trump got elected in the first place, and polling indicates that it's still an important issue (and not in the way the left wants it to be).

With so many other avenues of attack, why would they want to play to one of Trump's strengths?

Here is the problem that you point out so well, NoTime:

The right believes Democrats want open borders and hates talk of slowing immigration. Nothing could be further from the truth. Democrats know there is a problem and want to solve it. Putting children in cages, separating families, calling people animals, rapists, and drug dealers is not the way to solve the problem. Simply building a wall will not stop it. Righties think that finding a long term solution, without all the name calling and rhetoric, means "open borders" and do nothing on immigration.

The only thing building a wall will do is put money in the pockets of the wall builders. Concrete goes for about $4 a bag at Home Depot. Cinder blocks about $3 per brick. The wall builders will charge at least $20 per bag for concrete and at least $25 per brick for cinder blocks. That is before the cost of labor, and hardware (shovels, trowels, mixers) and surveying and security for those materials. That is our money. And it will take years. And Mexico WILL NOT PAY FOR IT. WE THE PEOPLE WILL. Democrats know this, too.

And illegals will still simply swim around the wall or dig under the wall. After We The People pay billions of dollars for a supposed, once-and-for-all end to illegal immigration.

seb146 wrote:

The right believes Democrats want open borders and hates talk of slowing immigration..

NoTime wrote:

seb146 wrote:

NoTime wrote:

Ha! Well, it looks like things haven't changed much around here over the last few months.

It's odd that folks on the left would choose to make immigration such a focal point of the political landscape, especially this close to the mid-terms. Border security is one of the primary reasons Trump got elected in the first place, and polling indicates that it's still an important issue (and not in the way the left wants it to be).

With so many other avenues of attack, why would they want to play to one of Trump's strengths?

Here is the problem that you point out so well, NoTime:

The right believes Democrats want open borders and hates talk of slowing immigration. Nothing could be further from the truth. Democrats know there is a problem and want to solve it. Putting children in cages, separating families, calling people animals, rapists, and drug dealers is not the way to solve the problem. Simply building a wall will not stop it. Righties think that finding a long term solution, without all the name calling and rhetoric, means "open borders" and do nothing on immigration.

The only thing building a wall will do is put money in the pockets of the wall builders. Concrete goes for about $4 a bag at Home Depot. Cinder blocks about $3 per brick. The wall builders will charge at least $20 per bag for concrete and at least $25 per brick for cinder blocks. That is before the cost of labor, and hardware (shovels, trowels, mixers) and surveying and security for those materials. That is our money. And it will take years. And Mexico WILL NOT PAY FOR IT. WE THE PEOPLE WILL. Democrats know this, too.

And illegals will still simply swim around the wall or dig under the wall. After We The People pay billions of dollars for a supposed, once-and-for-all end to illegal immigration.

But there ARE some on the left who want open borders. Keith Ellison (Congressman and DNC deputy chair) was wearing a t-shirt that said he didn't believe in borders. Others on the left have made comments that could be construed as wanting open borders. (The defense that is typically used is that the words are more metaphorical/figurative and not literal.)

And everyone understands the political implications of simply ignoring the problem and granting mass amnesty every 10 to 15 years.

A wall would help if it was properly constructed, I mean, that's defense 101. If nothing else it helps to funnel border crossers to certain areas, which reduces the amount of land that the border patrol has to closely monitor. But you're right that there are many other aspects of this problem that have to be addressed - not just a wall.

I guess I am honestly wondering, what is the solution being proposed by the left? Catch and release seems to have been a pretty big failure.

seb146 wrote:

That is one point Democrats keep bringing up: A wall is not the be all and end all. The tRump base believes it is. It is not.

VTKillarney1 wrote:

seb146 wrote:

That is one point Democrats keep bringing up: A wall is not the be all and end all. The tRump base believes it is. It is not.

Nice straw man. It’s one tool, not the only tool.

seb146 wrote:

Names.

VTKillarney1 wrote:

There are a growing number of Democrats who are saying that we should de-fund ICE, which will functionally give us open borders.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bi ... 3a8f69b33f

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/brandonro ... e-n2496010

http://www.sfexaminer.com/state-leaders ... ch-sf/amp/

https://www.thedailybeast.com/kamala-ha ... mining-ice

https://millennialpolitics.co/democrats ... e-sanders/

MSPNWA wrote:

seb146 wrote:

Names.

seb146.

seb146 wrote:

Prove it.

olle wrote:

I wonder;

Can you as a christian support a policy like the US Family separation?

seb146 wrote:

VTKillarney1 wrote:

There are a growing number of Democrats who are saying that we should de-fund ICE, which will functionally give us open borders.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bi ... 3a8f69b33f

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/brandonro ... e-n2496010

http://www.sfexaminer.com/state-leaders ... ch-sf/amp/

https://www.thedailybeast.com/kamala-ha ... mining-ice

https://millennialpolitics.co/democrats ... e-sanders/

That is InfoWars territory. I thought you righties wanted smaller government? What is wrong with trimming government?