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salttee
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:37 am

DL717 wrote:
Who’s going to pay for it?
The same people who paid for the Vietnam War and the Iraq War and out non functioning SDI. These same people have paid for others of your failed endeavors, They won't mind at all that a few bucks are spent on something worthwhile.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:40 am

seb146 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
Trump.... "No due process for illegal immigrants."

“We cannot allow all of these people to invade our Country. When somebody comes in, we must immediately, with no Judges or Court Cases, take them back from where they came.”

Bravo Mr. Trump. Making our borders Great Again


So what if they are murdered in their own country? So what if they die of starvation or disease in their country? A Christian nation don't need no stinkin' compassion! We have tax cuts!

EDIT:

My bad. With the high cost and demands for for-profit health care (because, really, who needs health care?) I guess people would not be fleeing disease. With their "socialist" medicine, they probably have more affordable treatments than we do.


Image
 
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seb146
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:50 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
seb146 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
Trump.... "No due process for illegal immigrants."

“We cannot allow all of these people to invade our Country. When somebody comes in, we must immediately, with no Judges or Court Cases, take them back from where they came.”

Bravo Mr. Trump. Making our borders Great Again


So what if they are murdered in their own country? So what if they die of starvation or disease in their country? A Christian nation don't need no stinkin' compassion! We have tax cuts!

EDIT:

My bad. With the high cost and demands for for-profit health care (because, really, who needs health care?) I guess people would not be fleeing disease. With their "socialist" medicine, they probably have more affordable treatments than we do.


Image


What does a misquote from Clinton have to do with anything? GIYF
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:47 pm

seb146 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
seb146 wrote:

So what if they are murdered in their own country? So what if they die of starvation or disease in their country? A Christian nation don't need no stinkin' compassion! We have tax cuts!

EDIT:

My bad. With the high cost and demands for for-profit health care (because, really, who needs health care?) I guess people would not be fleeing disease. With their "socialist" medicine, they probably have more affordable treatments than we do.


Image


What does a misquote from Clinton have to do with anything? GIYF


I'm not sure... I'll get back to you when I figure that out Seb.
 
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seb146
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:58 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
seb146 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:

Image


What does a misquote from Clinton have to do with anything? GIYF


I'm not sure... I'll get back to you when I figure that out Seb.


I have been driving all day and thinking about this "why no outrage then" post. First, the only response righties have to children being ripped from their families and locked in cages is "Clinton!!!" or "Obama!!!" false equivalency.

Second, Bill Clinton said "we have a problem. Here is my solution." No "liberal outrage" because why? On the other hand, your orange god locks kids in cages, calls immigrants dogs and animals and rapists and drug dealers and bad hombres. After all that rhetoric and denial and lies, he makes that statement. And righties wonder why there is "liberal outrage" over the same statement? There is not an eye roll emoji epic enough......
 
THS214
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:34 am

Flighty wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Flighty wrote:
I don’t think children should grow up in criminal households - actually, we have laws against it. So it is not just me. Anyway, I am not a Christian.


So you think a child should be permanently separated from their parent (or at least until they're 18) if a parent ever commits a crime? What if their crime is writing a bad check? I am a Christian btw.


If you are IN JAIL, which is generally because you are suspected or convicted of committing crimes, your kid is NOT WITH YOU. That's the law. In every country on Earth. This is how humans do things. Hope this helps.


That is simply not true. We call it humanity. There are difference of a murderer or someone spending couple month in prison.

We care of the child not the parent.

Greetings from Finland
 
salttee
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:52 am

THS214 wrote:
Flighty wrote:
afcjets wrote:
So you think a child should be permanently separated from their parent (or at least until they're 18) if a parent ever commits a crime? What if their crime is writing a bad check? I am a Christian btw.
If you are IN JAIL, which is generally because you are suspected or convicted of committing crimes, your kid is NOT WITH YOU. That's the law. In every country on Earth. This is how humans do things. Hope this helps.
That is simply not true. We call it humanity. There are difference of a murderer or someone spending couple month in prison.
We care of the child not the parent.
Greetings from Finland
The "crime" these people committed was of such low level that a ten dollar fine was the end punishment.

One of our Supreme Court Justices talked about this very issue recently.
https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/cn ... r-employer
 
Pi7472000
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:36 pm

As an athiest I have zero interest in mythology interacting with public policy in the 21st century. It is not my responsibilty to give this mythology any credence. Religious beliefs today are no different than greek mythology from thousands of years ago and thus should not have any impact in public policy.
 
THS214
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:59 pm

salttee wrote:
THS214 wrote:
Flighty wrote:
If you are IN JAIL, which is generally because you are suspected or convicted of committing crimes, your kid is NOT WITH YOU. That's the law. In every country on Earth. This is how humans do things. Hope this helps.
That is simply not true. We call it humanity. There are difference of a murderer or someone spending couple month in prison.
We care of the child not the parent.
Greetings from Finland
The "crime" these people committed was of such low level that a ten dollar fine was the end punishment.

One of our Supreme Court Justices talked about this very issue recently.
https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/cn ... r-employer


Thanks for the link.

My point was for Fligty "If you are IN JAIL, ... your kid is NOT WITH YOU. That's the law. In every country on Earth." Just wanted to say he is wrong.
 
NoTime
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:55 pm

olle wrote:
I wonder;

Can you as a christian support a policy like the US Family separation?


Interesting...

I wonder;

Can a christian support a policy like legal abortion?
 
salttee
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:57 am

NoTime wrote:
Can a christian support a policy like legal abortion?
I can't speak for Christians, but why not?
 
MikeDrop
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:26 am

salttee wrote:
One of our Supreme Court Justices talked about this very issue recently.
https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/cn ... r-employer


Thank God this idiot is now in the minority.

Mike Drop
 
Mir
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:36 am

NoTime wrote:
olle wrote:
I wonder;

Can you as a christian support a policy like the US Family separation?


Interesting...

I wonder;

Can a christian support a policy like legal abortion?


Sure. Legal abortion does not mean mandatory abortion. If you think they're immoral, don't get one. And feel free to encourage others not to get them as well. But don't force others to live by your moral code.
 
jetero
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:14 am

NoTime wrote:
Mir wrote:
NoTime wrote:

Interesting...

I wonder;

Can a christian support a policy like legal abortion?


Sure. Legal abortion does not mean mandatory abortion. If you think they're immoral, don't get one. And feel free to encourage others not to get them as well. But don't force others to live by your moral code.


OK, so would the "don't force others to live by your moral code" also apply to the implementation of family separation?


NoTime is back! Still having nightmares about Antifa?
 
NoTime
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:14 am

Mir wrote:
NoTime wrote:
olle wrote:
I wonder;

Can you as a christian support a policy like the US Family separation?


Interesting...

I wonder;

Can a christian support a policy like legal abortion?


Sure. Legal abortion does not mean mandatory abortion. If you think they're immoral, don't get one. And feel free to encourage others not to get them as well. But don't force others to live by your moral code.


OK, so would the "don't force others to live by your moral code" also apply to the implementation of family separation?
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:35 am

NoTime wrote:
olle wrote:
I wonder;

Can you as a christian support a policy like the US Family separation?


Interesting...

I wonder;

Can a christian support a policy like legal abortion?

Doesn't stop them from supporting any other kind of murder. Christianity has always been about using the bible as smorgasbord to justify whatever you're already doing--whether it's dropping bombs on people, enslaving a continent, wiping out natives, abusing children--violence is not a bug in the bible; it's a feature!
 
Mir
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:29 am

NoTime wrote:
Mir wrote:
NoTime wrote:

Interesting...

I wonder;

Can a christian support a policy like legal abortion?


Sure. Legal abortion does not mean mandatory abortion. If you think they're immoral, don't get one. And feel free to encourage others not to get them as well. But don't force others to live by your moral code.


OK, so would the "don't force others to live by your moral code" also apply to the implementation of family separation?


Abortion is, of course, not equivalent to the kidnapping of children.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:02 am

afcjets wrote:
Until Trump's executive order, it was illegal for children to go to jail with their parents. .


Arresting refugee seekers or separating children from their families is both illegal under international law. The law is therefore simply null and void in this context, and Border agents playing a part in this crime against humanity can be prosecuted at a later date.

American families are separated everyday when a parent goes to jail, which is very sad for the children, as it is sad for the children of detained illegal immigrants.


false equivalent, since the parents of Refugee children haven´t broken any laws.

Ensuring that the unity of the refugee’s family is maintained


and

Prohibited penalties might include being charged with immigration or criminal offences relating to the seeking of asylum, or being arbitrarily detained purely on the basis of seeking asylum.


are treaty requirements signed of the USA.

best regards
Thomas
 
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DL717
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:46 pm

Basic Question... Should a Christian feel compassion for a person breaking the law?
 
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casinterest
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:04 pm

DL717 wrote:
Basic Question... Should a Christian feel compassion for a person breaking the law?


Matthew 6:14-15
For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
 
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DL717
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:09 pm

casinterest wrote:
DL717 wrote:
Basic Question... Should a Christian feel compassion for a person breaking the law?


Matthew 6:14-15
For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,


Ephesians 2:8-9 New International Version (NIV)
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
 
NoTime
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:26 am

Mir wrote:
NoTime wrote:
Mir wrote:

Sure. Legal abortion does not mean mandatory abortion. If you think they're immoral, don't get one. And feel free to encourage others not to get them as well. But don't force others to live by your moral code.


OK, so would the "don't force others to live by your moral code" also apply to the implementation of family separation?


Abortion is, of course, not equivalent to the kidnapping of children.


Correct. It's the equivalent of killing them.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:46 am

DL717 wrote:
Basic Question... Should a Christian feel compassion for a person breaking the law?


Since they don´t break any valid laws, that ain´t a problem. Refugee seekers explicitly don´t break laws when they "illegally" cross a border.

NoTime wrote:
Correct. It's the equivalent of killing them.


Yeah, in the same sense you kill people by not having universal healthcare.

best regards
Thomas


.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:22 pm

NoTime wrote:
Mir wrote:
NoTime wrote:

OK, so would the "don't force others to live by your moral code" also apply to the implementation of family separation?


Abortion is, of course, not equivalent to the kidnapping of children.


Correct. It's the equivalent of killing them.

Yah I'm sure a white nationalist incels really care about abortion. They just use it as a foil to make anything they do sound better. Evangelicals didn't even care about abortion until they realized continuing to push for segregation was a bad look. Now they can get both! #praisewhiteJesus
 
bagoldex
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:29 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
NoTime wrote:
Mir wrote:

Abortion is, of course, not equivalent to the kidnapping of children.


Correct. It's the equivalent of killing them.

Yah I'm sure a white nationalist incels really care about abortion. They just use it as a foil to make anything they do sound better. Evangelicals didn't even care about abortion until they realized continuing to push for segregation was a bad look. Now they can get both! #praisewhiteJesus


They probably view rolling back abortion rights as a means of controlling and "punishing" women(torturing in reality, emotionally and physically).
Last edited by bagoldex on Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
VTKillarney1
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:31 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
Basic Question... Should a Christian feel compassion for a person breaking the law?


Since they don´t break any valid laws, that ain´t a problem. Refugee seekers explicitly don´t break laws when they "illegally" cross a border.

NoTime wrote:
Correct. It's the equivalent of killing them.


Yeah, in the same sense you kill people by not having universal healthcare.

Careful. If you are equating the two then, if you are for universal health care, you must also be pro life.
 
VTKillarney1
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:37 pm

bagoldex wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
NoTime wrote:

Correct. It's the equivalent of killing them.

Yah I'm sure a white nationalist incels really care about abortion. They just use it as a foil to make anything they do sound better. Evangelicals didn't even care about abortion until they realized continuing to push for segregation was a bad look. Now they can get both! #praisewhiteJesus


They probably view rolling back abortion rights as a means of controlling and "punishing" women(torturing in reality, emotionally and physically).

Look, I am pro choice but I can certainly understand why someone would think that killing an unborn child is not an ethical response to failing to use a rubber because you were too horney.

Don’t assume that pro life advocates are necessarily motivated by evil and/or wanting to cause harm.

It’s a difficult issue.

And if you think racism is the motivation, guess again. There are a lot fewer babies of color in this country because of abortion. Women of color are five times more likely to abort their babies compared to their white counterparts.

When it comes to this issue I try to be compassionate since there are legitimate arguments on both sides.
 
bagoldex
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:45 pm

VTKillarney1 wrote:
bagoldex wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Yah I'm sure a white nationalist incels really care about abortion. They just use it as a foil to make anything they do sound better. Evangelicals didn't even care about abortion until they realized continuing to push for segregation was a bad look. Now they can get both! #praisewhiteJesus


They probably view rolling back abortion rights as a means of controlling and "punishing" women(torturing in reality, emotionally and physically).

Look, I am pro choice but I can certainly understand why someone would think that killing an unborn child is not an ethical response to failing to use a rubber because you were too horney.

Don’t assume that pro life advocates are necessarily motivated by evil and/or wanting to cause harm.


I'm speaking strictly of incels and some of the more extreme fundamentalist Christians.

VTKillarney1 wrote:
Look, I am pro choice but I can certainly understand why someone would think that killing an unborn child is not an ethical response to failing to use a rubber because you were too horney.


If you can understand that point of view then you probably shouldn't be calling yourself pro-choice.
 
VTKillarney1
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:11 pm

bagoldex wrote:
If you can understand that point of view then you probably shouldn't be calling yourself pro-choice.

That type of absolutism is quite toxic. Killing an unborn child is not something that I take lightly and I appreciate that there are pros and cons no matter which side of the debate that you are on. After weighing all of those pros and cons I have decided that I am pro choice.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:17 pm

NoTime wrote:
olle wrote:
I wonder;

Can you as a christian support a policy like the US Family separation?


Interesting...

I wonder;

Can a christian support a policy like legal abortion?


Easy, new borns get their soul when they draw their first breath, before that that are not even alive, but just liquid (early phase) or one of her mother's limbs, a thigh. That is why in the Bible a miscarriage or abortion is described as "discharging" or "her thigh withered away" in some translations.
See Numbers 5:11-31 for an priest performing an abortion because God commands it.

Christians shouldn't even have problems with late term abortions, at least not for religious reasons, unless they want to.

Best regards
Thomas
 
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seahawk
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:29 pm

It is perfectly normal to separate criminals from their children. So why the outrage? The only thing to complain about is the long time it takes before the family is re-united in Mexico. It should take hours not months. Round them up, put them in a cattle car, truck them to the border, dump them, done. No judge, no jury, little costs. If they have money you take it to compensate for the cost of transportation.
 
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seb146
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:17 pm

seahawk wrote:
It is perfectly normal to separate criminals from their children. So why the outrage? The only thing to complain about is the long time it takes before the family is re-united in Mexico. It should take hours not months. Round them up, put them in a cattle car, truck them to the border, dump them, done. No judge, no jury, little costs. If they have money you take it to compensate for the cost of transportation.


And, if they die for some reason once they are back in Mexico (drug cartel shooting, starvation, disease, etc.) why the hell should we, as Christians, care? It is their own damn fault, right? They are just animals, as dear leader says. Right?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:20 pm

olle wrote:
I wonder;

Can you as a christian support a policy like the US Family separation?


asking this question is answering it.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:33 pm

seb146 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
It is perfectly normal to separate criminals from their children. So why the outrage? The only thing to complain about is the long time it takes before the family is re-united in Mexico. It should take hours not months. Round them up, put them in a cattle car, truck them to the border, dump them, done. No judge, no jury, little costs. If they have money you take it to compensate for the cost of transportation.


And, if they die for some reason once they are back in Mexico (drug cartel shooting, starvation, disease, etc.) why the hell should we, as Christians, care? It is their own damn fault, right? They are just animals, as dear leader says. Right?


They are just abound human resources with a very low value. Otherwise how can you have preachers collecting money for a private jet and not for those people... I dare say that the American evangelic movement is probably the most commercially organized faith in existence where earthly profit equals eternal blessing.
 
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seb146
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:20 pm

seahawk wrote:
seb146 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
It is perfectly normal to separate criminals from their children. So why the outrage? The only thing to complain about is the long time it takes before the family is re-united in Mexico. It should take hours not months. Round them up, put them in a cattle car, truck them to the border, dump them, done. No judge, no jury, little costs. If they have money you take it to compensate for the cost of transportation.


And, if they die for some reason once they are back in Mexico (drug cartel shooting, starvation, disease, etc.) why the hell should we, as Christians, care? It is their own damn fault, right? They are just animals, as dear leader says. Right?


They are just abound human resources with a very low value. Otherwise how can you have preachers collecting money for a private jet and not for those people... I dare say that the American evangelic movement is probably the most commercially organized faith in existence where earthly profit equals eternal blessing.


I know. They don't dare travel with the unwashed masses. What better way to show everyone they are close to God than with a Gulfstream V or Falcon Jet?
 
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seahawk
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:18 pm

In the end it might not be very Christian but logical. Keeping the immigrants out is supposed to buy you a better life on earth, while giving to those preachers promises a similar situation in heaven. It is hard to imagine walls in heaven though.
 
NoTime
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:42 pm

Ha! Well, it looks like things haven't changed much around here over the last few months.

It's odd that folks on the left would choose to make immigration such a focal point of the political landscape, especially this close to the mid-terms. Border security is one of the primary reasons Trump got elected in the first place, and polling indicates that it's still an important issue (and not in the way the left wants it to be).

With so many other avenues of attack, why would they want to play to one of Trump's strengths?
 
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seb146
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:06 pm

NoTime wrote:
Ha! Well, it looks like things haven't changed much around here over the last few months.

It's odd that folks on the left would choose to make immigration such a focal point of the political landscape, especially this close to the mid-terms. Border security is one of the primary reasons Trump got elected in the first place, and polling indicates that it's still an important issue (and not in the way the left wants it to be).

With so many other avenues of attack, why would they want to play to one of Trump's strengths?


Here is the problem that you point out so well, NoTime:

The right believes Democrats want open borders and hates talk of slowing immigration. Nothing could be further from the truth. Democrats know there is a problem and want to solve it. Putting children in cages, separating families, calling people animals, rapists, and drug dealers is not the way to solve the problem. Simply building a wall will not stop it. Righties think that finding a long term solution, without all the name calling and rhetoric, means "open borders" and do nothing on immigration.

The only thing building a wall will do is put money in the pockets of the wall builders. Concrete goes for about $4 a bag at Home Depot. Cinder blocks about $3 per brick. The wall builders will charge at least $20 per bag for concrete and at least $25 per brick for cinder blocks. That is before the cost of labor, and hardware (shovels, trowels, mixers) and surveying and security for those materials. That is our money. And it will take years. And Mexico WILL NOT PAY FOR IT. WE THE PEOPLE WILL. Democrats know this, too.

And illegals will still simply swim around the wall or dig under the wall. After We The People pay billions of dollars for a supposed, once-and-for-all end to illegal immigration.
 
NoTime
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:23 pm

seb146 wrote:
NoTime wrote:
Ha! Well, it looks like things haven't changed much around here over the last few months.

It's odd that folks on the left would choose to make immigration such a focal point of the political landscape, especially this close to the mid-terms. Border security is one of the primary reasons Trump got elected in the first place, and polling indicates that it's still an important issue (and not in the way the left wants it to be).

With so many other avenues of attack, why would they want to play to one of Trump's strengths?


Here is the problem that you point out so well, NoTime:

The right believes Democrats want open borders and hates talk of slowing immigration. Nothing could be further from the truth. Democrats know there is a problem and want to solve it. Putting children in cages, separating families, calling people animals, rapists, and drug dealers is not the way to solve the problem. Simply building a wall will not stop it. Righties think that finding a long term solution, without all the name calling and rhetoric, means "open borders" and do nothing on immigration.

The only thing building a wall will do is put money in the pockets of the wall builders. Concrete goes for about $4 a bag at Home Depot. Cinder blocks about $3 per brick. The wall builders will charge at least $20 per bag for concrete and at least $25 per brick for cinder blocks. That is before the cost of labor, and hardware (shovels, trowels, mixers) and surveying and security for those materials. That is our money. And it will take years. And Mexico WILL NOT PAY FOR IT. WE THE PEOPLE WILL. Democrats know this, too.

And illegals will still simply swim around the wall or dig under the wall. After We The People pay billions of dollars for a supposed, once-and-for-all end to illegal immigration.


But there ARE some on the left who want open borders. Keith Ellison (Congressman and DNC deputy chair) was wearing a t-shirt that said he didn't believe in borders. Others on the left have made comments that could be construed as wanting open borders. (The defense that is typically used is that the words are more metaphorical/figurative and not literal.)

And everyone understands the political implications of simply ignoring the problem and granting mass amnesty every 10 to 15 years.

A wall would help if it was properly constructed, I mean, that's defense 101. If nothing else it helps to funnel border crossers to certain areas, which reduces the amount of land that the border patrol has to closely monitor. But you're right that there are many other aspects of this problem that have to be addressed - not just a wall.

I guess I am honestly wondering, what is the solution being proposed by the left? Catch and release seems to have been a pretty big failure.
 
tommy1808
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Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:53 pm

seb146 wrote:
The right believes Democrats want open borders and hates talk of slowing immigration..


Isn't it funny that the same people complaining about democrats wanting to open borders post memes claiming Clinton wanted the same as Trump? Which one is it....

Best regards
Thomas
 
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seb146
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:39 pm

NoTime wrote:
seb146 wrote:
NoTime wrote:
Ha! Well, it looks like things haven't changed much around here over the last few months.

It's odd that folks on the left would choose to make immigration such a focal point of the political landscape, especially this close to the mid-terms. Border security is one of the primary reasons Trump got elected in the first place, and polling indicates that it's still an important issue (and not in the way the left wants it to be).

With so many other avenues of attack, why would they want to play to one of Trump's strengths?


Here is the problem that you point out so well, NoTime:

The right believes Democrats want open borders and hates talk of slowing immigration. Nothing could be further from the truth. Democrats know there is a problem and want to solve it. Putting children in cages, separating families, calling people animals, rapists, and drug dealers is not the way to solve the problem. Simply building a wall will not stop it. Righties think that finding a long term solution, without all the name calling and rhetoric, means "open borders" and do nothing on immigration.

The only thing building a wall will do is put money in the pockets of the wall builders. Concrete goes for about $4 a bag at Home Depot. Cinder blocks about $3 per brick. The wall builders will charge at least $20 per bag for concrete and at least $25 per brick for cinder blocks. That is before the cost of labor, and hardware (shovels, trowels, mixers) and surveying and security for those materials. That is our money. And it will take years. And Mexico WILL NOT PAY FOR IT. WE THE PEOPLE WILL. Democrats know this, too.

And illegals will still simply swim around the wall or dig under the wall. After We The People pay billions of dollars for a supposed, once-and-for-all end to illegal immigration.


But there ARE some on the left who want open borders. Keith Ellison (Congressman and DNC deputy chair) was wearing a t-shirt that said he didn't believe in borders. Others on the left have made comments that could be construed as wanting open borders. (The defense that is typically used is that the words are more metaphorical/figurative and not literal.)


Who is saying "Democrats want open borders"? Sure there were like 10 protesters that one time, but who else? Names. You could name Ellison who wants border security, then you go on to not name anyone who supposedly wants open borders.

And everyone understands the political implications of simply ignoring the problem and granting mass amnesty every 10 to 15 years.


It worked for St. Reagan

A wall would help if it was properly constructed, I mean, that's defense 101. If nothing else it helps to funnel border crossers to certain areas, which reduces the amount of land that the border patrol has to closely monitor. But you're right that there are many other aspects of this problem that have to be addressed - not just a wall.

I guess I am honestly wondering, what is the solution being proposed by the left? Catch and release seems to have been a pretty big failure.


That is one point Democrats keep bringing up: A wall is not the be all and end all. The tRump base believes it is. It is not.

BTW, since you can not find anything other than "liberals want...." with zero proof, here is a thumbnail sketch of what Democrats are proposing

https://www.democrats.org/issues/immigration-reform
 
 
VTKillarney1
Posts: 289
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:40 pm

seb146 wrote:
That is one point Democrats keep bringing up: A wall is not the be all and end all. The tRump base believes it is. It is not.

Nice straw man. It’s one tool, not the only tool.
 
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seb146
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:24 am

VTKillarney1 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
That is one point Democrats keep bringing up: A wall is not the be all and end all. The tRump base believes it is. It is not.

Nice straw man. It’s one tool, not the only tool.


What else do they have?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBW8mTHDgvk

The wall and separating children from their families are the only things different between Democrats and Republicans.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:42 am

seb146 wrote:
Names.


seb146.
 
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seb146
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:46 am

VTKillarney1 wrote:


That is InfoWars territory. I thought you righties wanted smaller government? What is wrong with trimming government?
 
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seb146
Posts: 24104
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:46 am

MSPNWA wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Names.


seb146.


Prove it.
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 3698
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:53 am

seb146 wrote:
Prove it.


You already have over and over. All one needs to do is read this thread. You wanted names. I gave you one.

All of that assuming you're a democrat of course.
 
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flyingturtle
Posts: 6191
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Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:50 am

olle wrote:
I wonder;

Can you as a christian support a policy like the US Family separation?




Christians had little problem with South American terror regimes.

Christians arranged with the Nazis.

Christians liked slavery.

Christians have little problem with obscene wealth, with poverty and with income inequality. It's all the prosperity gospel, dummy!


David
 
VTKillarney1
Posts: 289
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:11 pm

Re: Family "separation" - can a christian support such policy

Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:43 am

seb146 wrote:
VTKillarney1 wrote:


That is InfoWars territory. I thought you righties wanted smaller government? What is wrong with trimming government?

This is far from Infowars territory because these people actually said this. Unless you are equating HuffPo and the Daiky Beast to Infowars, in which case I can kind of see your point.

As for smaller government, I’m a moderate. Don’t assume my politics. It’s also an ignorant question since this is the type of governmental function that conservatives are okay with.

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