alfa164
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Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:26 am

VTKillarney1 wrote:
mbmbos wrote:
Frankly, I'm not sure the United States exists anymore. We're just NAZIs waving a different colored flag.

Holy false equivalence! It also trivializes the horror of the millions of Jews that were slaughtered just for being Jewish, not to mention the millions of innocent citizens that were killed in World War II.


Big "false equivalence"! One is a far-right political party, led by an unabashed demagogue, that demonized minorities in order to stoke fear in less-well-informed citizens... shoved the free press, intellectuals, and social minorities to the side... and restructured all levels of government to carry out their "nationalistic" ideals, destroying the nation's multi-ethnic, progressive heritage and freedoms in the process.

The other... was a political party in Germany... :roll:

Aesma wrote:
I find it ridiculous how justice is politicized in the US (elected judges, prosecutors, etc.), especially the Supreme Court. Ideally politics should have no role in this, and supreme court justices should be barely known except by lawyers and scholars.


Unfortunately, the concept of a court as an arbiter of justice has become quaint, thanks first to the determination of the administration to nominate an idealogogue to the institution, and secondly due to the overt politicalization of the process. McConnell made it clear when he refused to even hold hearings for Merrick Garland that there was no longer any facade of fairness in the process - and, as a result has defiled not only the reputation of the Senate, but of the Court itself.

The only Supremes who deserve our trust anymore are lead by Diana Ross... not John Roberts.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
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Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:25 am

EA CO AS wrote:
2122M wrote:
What kind of justice would be your personal preference?


Someone who is going to actually interpret what the Constitution says, not what they WANT it to say. How's that?

If I were President, I'd tell the people that other than what I just mentioned above, I do have a litmus test:

o Roe v. Wade gets left alone
o Obergefell v. Hodges gets left alone
o D.C. v, Heller gets left alone
o McDonald v. City of Chicago gets left alone

Now the bogeymen of the left and right are removed from the discussion, and adult conversations can take place.


One more: the president cannot pardon himself/herself.

It should make everyone quite nervous that Trump, a notorious demander of loyalty, is appointing someone who may someday (I would say likely someday) rule on whether he gets the ultimate get-out-of-jail-free card.
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
LittleSprocket
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Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:30 am

Mir wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
2122M wrote:
What kind of justice would be your personal preference?


Someone who is going to actually interpret what the Constitution says, not what they WANT it to say. How's that?

If I were President, I'd tell the people that other than what I just mentioned above, I do have a litmus test:

o Roe v. Wade gets left alone
o Obergefell v. Hodges gets left alone
o D.C. v, Heller gets left alone
o McDonald v. City of Chicago gets left alone

Now the bogeymen of the left and right are removed from the discussion, and adult conversations can take place.


One more: the president cannot pardon himself/herself.

It should make everyone quite nervous that Trump, a notorious demander of loyalty, is appointing someone who may someday (I would say likely someday) rule on whether he gets the ultimate get-out-of-jail-free card.


Except that the person he nominates wont ge presiding over the impeachment, that is strictly the Chief Justice. Of course, you still have to get 67 senators to agree that a high crime or misdemeanor was committed in order for the impeachment to go forth. Unfortunately for the left, hurting their feelings and calling out CNN isnt an impeachable offense.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:34 am

LittleSprocket wrote:
Mir wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:

Someone who is going to actually interpret what the Constitution says, not what they WANT it to say. How's that?

If I were President, I'd tell the people that other than what I just mentioned above, I do have a litmus test:

o Roe v. Wade gets left alone
o Obergefell v. Hodges gets left alone
o D.C. v, Heller gets left alone
o McDonald v. City of Chicago gets left alone

Now the bogeymen of the left and right are removed from the discussion, and adult conversations can take place.


One more: the president cannot pardon himself/herself.

It should make everyone quite nervous that Trump, a notorious demander of loyalty, is appointing someone who may someday (I would say likely someday) rule on whether he gets the ultimate get-out-of-jail-free card.


Except that the person he nominates wont ge presiding over the impeachment, that is strictly the Chief Justice. Of course, you still have to get 67 senators to agree that a high crime or misdemeanor was committed in order for the impeachment to go forth. Unfortunately for the left, hurting their feelings and calling out CNN isnt an impeachable offense.


Emoluments.

And then there's the fact that Mueller isn't done yet. So we already have one proven impeachable offense from day one of his presidency and his party doesn't even have the spine to try forcing him into compliance after the fact.
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Mir
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Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:42 am

LittleSprocket wrote:
Except that the person he nominates wont ge presiding over the impeachment, that is strictly the Chief Justice. Of course, you still have to get 67 senators to agree that a high crime or misdemeanor was committed in order for the impeachment to go forth. Unfortunately for the left, hurting their feelings and calling out CNN isnt an impeachable offense.


This isn't about impeachment. It's established that the president cannot pardon themselves against impeachment. I'm talking about pardoning themselves for actual crimes committed (obstruction of justice, for instance, or violation of campaign finance law, or really anything at all because once the president decides they can pardon themselves all bets are off). And whatever justice is selected to the court will definitely end up ruling on whether the president can actually do that.
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:21 am

Jouhou wrote:
we already have one proven impeachable offense from day one of his presidency


We do? Man, you should tell Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer; I bet they're dying to know what you've got!

(Hint; you've got nothing)
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:03 am

EA CO AS wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
we already have one proven impeachable offense from day one of his presidency


We do? Man, you should tell Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer; I bet they're dying to know what you've got!

(Hint; you've got nothing)


You do realize they are fundraising off of Trump right? That's why they keep silencing the cries for impeachment. Also the right wing nutters threatening to start a civil war.
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P1aneMad
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Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:19 am

Trump derangement syndrome in full swing...
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:28 am

Jouhou wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
we already have one proven impeachable offense from day one of his presidency


We do? Man, you should tell Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer; I bet they're dying to know what you've got!

(Hint; you've got nothing)


You do realize they are fundraising off of Trump right? That's why they keep silencing the cries for impeachment. Also the right wing nutters threatening to start a civil war.


Oh man, that's funny stuff! They're silencing the cries for impeachment because 1.) they know there's no 'high crimes and misdemeanors' committed by the president, 2.) they lack the votes to do so even if such crimes existed and 3.) because they've seen how their poll numbers crater whenever they mention impeachment.

And as far as a civil war goes, the right has no need to try and start one - we have all the guns.

Unless you think the lefties are envisioning a slap-fight.... :duck:
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
texdravid
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Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:40 pm

What a week for Trump!
I mean two favorable court rulings, especially for me that judgement against mandatory union dues. I have always found it repugnant that unions could force you to pay dues that go their fat cats and the unions abhorrent Democrat support which is taxpayer subsidized payments to the democrat party.

Meh on the travel ban....wanted version 1, not version 3. This watered down version is just not strict enough. America needs a break from general immigration and zero immigration from the Middle East and South America and Mexico.

Finally, regarding the retirement of Justice Kennedy, while I am overjoyed that Trump is getting a golden chance to really move this court to the right and that we are finally getting past Justice wishy washy Kennedy, I really hate that the unelected Supreme Court has so much power.

The fact that one justice retiring means utter euphoria for one side and utter gloom for the other is NOT how a modern democracy or republic should work.

The Supreme Court doesn’t need to be in the business of the 9 “gods” of modern life, the legislature should. They are unaccountable, have lifetime appointments, and have way too much accumulated power.
These lords in robes need to stand for election,or have 10-15 year terms, or some other limitations on their unchecked power.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
MikeDrop
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Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:49 pm

seb146 wrote:
why was it patriotic to block Obama's nominee nearly a year before a major election but, now, it is patriotic to rush through a nominee months before a major election? I mean, I know the one letter difference is the only reason, I just want to hear it from you.

The same reason that the dems used when they didn't allow a vote on a budget in the senate from 2010 - 2013 while racking up multiple Trillion dollar deficits - because they could. The same reason that the dems used when they changed the filibuster rule in the senate to avoid having to cooperate with republicans on federal judge appointments - because they could.

We don't care that this upsets you because you didn't care back then. What's good for the goose is good for the gander - and turnabout is fair play

Mike Drop
 
tommy1808
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Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:54 pm

texdravid wrote:
I really hate that the unelected Supreme Court has so much power.


They are elected, just not directly.

The fact that one justice retiring means utter euphoria for one side and utter gloom for the other is NOT how a modern democracy or republic should work.


That will only go away if you get a proper thought out constitution, and not the first attempt of one you are kinda stuck with. It just isn't precise on much. Having been revolutionary 200+ years ago just doesn't cut it.

These lords in robes need to stand for election,or have 10-15 year terms, or some other limitations on their unchecked power.


Electing judges makes the job even more political and is about the most corrupting concept there is.
They also don't have unchecked power, you can change the constitution or reduce/increase the number of judges as you please.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
VTKillarney1
Posts: 289
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Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:05 pm

The reason people are freaking out is because the Supreme Court has WAAAAY more power than it should. Ironically, it’s the liberal justices that opened this door originally. That’s how you got Roe v. Wade. The liberals are reaping what they have sowed.

Prior to this, you needed the legislature to actually pass laws. For substantive changes to the Constitution, you had to amend the Constitution. (e.g. giving women the right to vote). You couldn’t rely on the Supreme Court to magically find it in there.

The Democrats are acting like spoiled children right now. It’s fine when they have the toys, but once someone else gets to play with the toys the Democrats throw a tantrum - even though they brought the toys to the party in the first place.
 
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seb146
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Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:27 pm

MikeDrop wrote:
seb146 wrote:
why was it patriotic to block Obama's nominee nearly a year before a major election but, now, it is patriotic to rush through a nominee months before a major election? I mean, I know the one letter difference is the only reason, I just want to hear it from you.

The same reason that the dems used when they didn't allow a vote on a budget in the senate from 2010 - 2013 while racking up multiple Trillion dollar deficits - because they could. The same reason that the dems used when they changed the filibuster rule in the senate to avoid having to cooperate with republicans on federal judge appointments - because they could.

We don't care that this upsets you because you didn't care back then. What's good for the goose is good for the gander - and turnabout is fair play

Mike Drop


Ah, I see: When in doubt and when you have no REAL response, blame Democrats.

Yes, turnabout IS fair play. Problem is, you righties are so pearl clutchy all of a sudden when the exact same things you all have been doing is being done to you.

Maybe the reason Democrats did not allow a vote on a budged was because those budgets increased the deficit? Maybe there was an actual reason other than "because they could"? Of course not. Anything to blame Democrats.

#resist
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
NoTime
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:21 am

Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:46 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
2122M wrote:
What kind of justice would be your personal preference?


Someone who is going to actually interpret what the Constitution says, not what they WANT it to say. How's that?

If I were President, I'd tell the people that other than what I just mentioned above, I do have a litmus test:

o Roe v. Wade gets left alone
o Obergefell v. Hodges gets left alone
o D.C. v, Heller gets left alone
o McDonald v. City of Chicago gets left alone

Now the bogeymen of the left and right are removed from the discussion, and adult conversations can take place.


Amen. But that makes too much sense for politicians on either side.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:46 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
VTKillarney1 wrote:
I keep hearing here how packing the courts is evidence of Nazism.

Apparently Nazism is on the rise. Scary times, indeed.



Image

I don't think uniforms are coming, or death camps. But, to follow Matthew Kovach's allegory, if the LGBTQ don't feel welcome here, then can get on the "MS St. Louis" ocean liner, and try to find a country that would accept them. France probably would.

A difference here, is that we're not coming to France to round up the LGBTQ to then send them to death camps. Another difference is that we're not trying to keep them here, to control them. We're happy to let them leave the country (with their money) and go find a new life.

Big differences, and the Nazi/Death Camp allegories are just false.


The republican party will go down in history as being cowards. They are the ones who boarded the ocean liner, and are lost at sea. They just don't know it yet.
Historians know, intellectuals know it, even if you don't. Anytime groups of people are targeted and labeled as being undesirable and marginalized. It's time to speak out.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
 
NoTime
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:21 am

Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:01 pm

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
The republican party will go down in history as being cowards. They are the ones who boarded the ocean liner, and are lost at sea. They just don't know it yet.
Historians know, intellectuals know it, even if you don't. Anytime groups of people are targeted and labeled as being undesirable and marginalized. It's time to speak out.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.


Good Lord, hyperbole much?

This, right here, is why no one listens to the left anymore (at least, not seriously). They've been yelling this type of nonsense for so long, now, that it's all just shrieking and noise at this point. I mean, over the last two years the left has claimed that our democracy has died at least a dozen times, and warned every day that the concentration camps would be built tomorrow. Hell, just go read the posts on this forum for the last five years or so.

Seriously. That type of constant outrage, hatred and fear can't be good for your health. We survived 8 years of Obama. We'll survive 4+ years of Trump.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:11 pm

You want to go to your secure corner and cry a bit?
 
MikeDrop
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Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:28 pm

seb146 wrote:
Maybe the reason Democrats did not allow a vote on a budged was because those budgets increased the deficit? Maybe there was an actual reason other than "because they could"? Of course not. Anything to blame Democrats.

You are exactly right - the dems wanted to spend over a TRILLION dollars a year on social spending and they didn't want to have the votes for the massive deficits on the record in the next election. So they just didnt ever vote on any budget and forced continuing resolutions on the American public.

Totally irresponsible, and in my opinion, criminal.

#democratsarecriminals

On top of this, I gave you the most honest answer that you are ever going to get: The repubs denied Merrick Garland his appointment because they could, and it benefited them. Just like the dems have done for the last 8 years. GET OVER IT.

Boom!

Mike Drop
 
VTKillarney1
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Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:30 pm

DLFREEBIRD wrote:

The republican party will go down in history as being cowards. They are the ones who boarded the ocean liner, and are lost at sea. They just don't know it yet.
Historians know, intellectuals know it, even if you don't. Anytime groups of people are targeted and labeled as being undesirable and marginalized. It's time to speak out.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

I love how someone engaging in this type of unbridled delusion claims to speak for the intellectuals.
 
VTKillarney1
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Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:32 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Could someone explain to me why US citizens let unelected officials like judges in the Supreme Court decide political issues?

Trump will choice his judge and therewith will set the course of political decisions for the next, what 20 years or so? He has been given a mandate for 4 years. How do you Americans view this practice (without being partician because it is Trump now)

The liberals (the Warren Court) decided that this would be a good idea. The activist judges just took this authority upon themselves.
Last edited by VTKillarney1 on Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:33 pm

Could someone explain to me why US citizens let unelected officials like judges in the Supreme Court decide political issues?

Trump will choice his judge and therewith will set the course of political decisions for the next, what 20 years or so? He has been given a mandate for 4 years. How do you Americans view this practice (without being partician because it is Trump now)
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
VTKillarney1
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Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:46 pm

CitizenJustin wrote:
ER757 wrote:
All the Bernie-bots who stayed home in the general election in those swing states that Trump carried because they were butt-hurt can just go look in the mirror if they are upset about the makeup of the SCOTUS these days. They unwittingly set the tone of the court for the next generation - the repercussions will last far longer than the current presidential administration.


Yes and their argument that a Trump win will swing the country far to the left, resulting in progressive wins. Now that the Supreme Court is packed with conservatives, I don’t think the progressive agenda will have any chance for a very long time. Unfortunately, these people never learn.

Yeah, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez doesn’t stand a chance. Oh, wait...
 
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CitizenJustin
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Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:49 pm

ER757 wrote:
All the Bernie-bots who stayed home in the general election in those swing states that Trump carried because they were butt-hurt can just go look in the mirror if they are upset about the makeup of the SCOTUS these days. They unwittingly set the tone of the court for the next generation - the repercussions will last far longer than the current presidential administration.


Yes and their argument that a Trump win will swing the country far to the left, resulting in progressive wins. Now that the Supreme Court is packed with conservatives, I don’t think the progressive agenda will have any chance for a very long time. Unfortunately, these people never learn.
 
MikeDrop
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Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:52 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Could someone explain to me why US citizens let unelected officials like judges in the Supreme Court decide political issues?

Trump will choice his judge and therewith will set the course of political decisions for the next, what 20 years or so? He has been given a mandate for 4 years. How do you Americans view this practice (without being partician because it is Trump now)

Well,

It is based on the idea of having three equal branches of government - separation of powers. And, IMO it has served the US very well over the years. I think that the founders of this country got it right. A look at the history of the decisions of the SCOTUS will show that while it has made some decisions that were very wrong, it has made many more that were very right.

The founders understood that humans are basically corrupt and power hungry, and that the only way to check that quest for power and corruption is to have three competing branches of government that have authority over the other two branches. The founders also understood that if they put term limits on the Supreme Court that the justices would then be tempted to be even more corrupt than their basic human nature, so they very wisely gave these judges lifetime appointments. History has shown that many justices have become different people, and more moderate, over the course of their appointments, and, one is not always able to predict how a judge will rule - Kennedy is an excellent example of this since he was appointed by REAGAN.

Finally, one only needs to look at how the courts have guided the course of the Trump administration to see how the founders got this right.

My 2 cents

Mike Drop
 
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CitizenJustin
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Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:11 pm

OA412 wrote:
Max Q wrote:
When the republicans finally succeed in following chump into the abyss of totalitarianism they will regret what they’ve done


But it will be too late

Indeed it will be. All I can do is take comfort in knowing how harshly history will judge these cowards as spineless enablers.
jetero wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
Well said, I agree 100 %. The stench of hypocrisy from an other once respected part of the US government. Justice prevails?, I think not. Just another bunch of political hacks like congress. When all respect is lost for our once cherished Institutions, what come next? Lady Liberty lost her Virginity long ago. These Idiots do not know what they are doing to this country, and they do not seem to care.


It’s very clear from the above they don’t care. It’s only about being able to say, “We won! You didn’t! And we’re getting our rocks off on you guys being upset!”

As I’ve said before, for a lot of these people it’s all about liberal tears. They’re willing to see this country burn to the ground just to stick it to liberals.



“All I can do is take comfort in knowing how harshly history will judge these cowards as spineless enablers.”

Agreed. I often wonder how history will interpret this moment in time.
 
VTKillarney1
Posts: 289
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Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:14 pm

CitizenJustin wrote:
OA412 wrote:
Max Q wrote:
When the republicans finally succeed in following chump into the abyss of totalitarianism they will regret what they’ve done


But it will be too late

Indeed it will be. All I can do is take comfort in knowing how harshly history will judge these cowards as spineless enablers.
jetero wrote:

It’s very clear from the above they don’t care. It’s only about being able to say, “We won! You didn’t! And we’re getting our rocks off on you guys being upset!”

As I’ve said before, for a lot of these people it’s all about liberal tears. They’re willing to see this country burn to the ground just to stick it to liberals.



“All I can do is take comfort in knowing how harshly history will judge these cowards as spineless enablers.”

Agreed. I often wonder how history will interpret this moment in time.

History will treat Trump like Nixon, which is to say that after a few years nobody will really care.
 
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Dutchy
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Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:21 pm

CitizenJustin wrote:
Agreed. I often wonder how history will interpret this moment in time.


Politics will not be noticeable - I think -, this is the time of the electronic revolution not unlike the industrial revolution. Humanity and society is adjusting to this, Trump and other populist are a result of this.

On one thing historians might be harsh and this is the environment. If the most pessimistic scenario of global warming will come true they will judge us harsh, we knew and didn't do enough since 1972 Club of Rome report.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
DLFREEBIRD
Posts: 1201
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:31 pm

[code][/code]
seahawk wrote:
You want to go to your secure corner and cry a bit?


do you even know what's happening out there?

this administrations piling on massive debt because of tax cuts for the wealthy. we have a lousy 2 GDP, a trade war brewing, near zero -unemployment but with stagnant wages and rising fuel costs, rising prices, rising interest rates, or haven't you noticed? We worked way to hard on this economy, for a republican president to wreck it again.

this Adm is full of losers, Shame on your party, you have a guy who's left 2 families, brags about grabbing pussy, totally hypocrite, and your standing behind him because why?

you like inflation? you like trade wards? what exactly do you like about this president? The fact that North Korea is ignoring Trump and STLL building up their nuclear weapons.
exactly what do you see in Trump that you like?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:35 pm

MikeDrop wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Could someone explain to me why US citizens let unelected officials like judges in the Supreme Court decide political issues?

Trump will choice his judge and therewith will set the course of political decisions for the next, what 20 years or so? He has been given a mandate for 4 years. How do you Americans view this practice (without being partician because it is Trump now)

Well,

It is based on the idea of having three equal branches of government - separation of powers. And, IMO it has served the US very well over the years. I think that the founders of this country got it right. A look at the history of the decisions of the SCOTUS will show that while it has made some decisions that were very wrong, it has made many more that were very right.

The founders understood that humans are basically corrupt and power hungry, and that the only way to check that quest for power and corruption is to have three competing branches of government that have authority over the other two branches. The founders also understood that if they put term limits on the Supreme Court that the justices would then be tempted to be even more corrupt than their basic human nature, so they very wisely gave these judges lifetime appointments. History has shown that many justices have become different people, and more moderate, over the course of their appointments, and, one is not always able to predict how a judge will rule - Kennedy is an excellent example of this since he was appointed by REAGAN.

Finally, one only needs to look at how the courts have guided the course of the Trump administration to see how the founders got this right.

My 2 cents

Mike Drop


That is fine, but you still have an inherently undemocratic institution making political decisions. Which in turn has been put there by a democratically elected branch of government, but can't change at the swing of the political will of the people.

The trias politica of Charles Montesquieu, separation of powers:

The separation of powers is a model for the governance of a state. Under this model, a state's government is divided into branches, each with separate and independent powers and areas of responsibility so that the powers of one branch are not in conflict with the powers associated with the other branches. The typical division is into three branches: a legislature, an executive, and a judiciary, which is the trias politica model.


But in the US model, you have the judiciary branch taking the place of the legislature one and sometimes the executive one. More a fusion of powers.

And in my understanding of the US system, the constitution is almost set in stone and almost can't be rewritten, just amended.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Posts: 2418
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:22 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:

We do? Man, you should tell Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer; I bet they're dying to know what you've got!

(Hint; you've got nothing)


You do realize they are fundraising off of Trump right? That's why they keep silencing the cries for impeachment. Also the right wing nutters threatening to start a civil war.


Oh man, that's funny stuff! They're silencing the cries for impeachment because 1.) they know there's no 'high crimes and misdemeanors' committed by the president, 2.) they lack the votes to do so even if such crimes existed and 3.) because they've seen how their poll numbers crater whenever they mention impeachment.

And as far as a civil war goes, the right has no need to try and start one - we have all the guns.

Unless you think the lefties are envisioning a slap-fight.... :duck:


They are definitely calling for violence and a civil war. It could be Russian trolls, but the right is definitely buying into it.
情報
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 21512
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Supremely Screwed

Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:41 pm

MikeDrop wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Maybe the reason Democrats did not allow a vote on a budged was because those budgets increased the deficit? Maybe there was an actual reason other than "because they could"? Of course not. Anything to blame Democrats.

You are exactly right - the dems wanted to spend over a TRILLION dollars a year on social spending and they didn't want to have the votes for the massive deficits on the record in the next election. So they just didnt ever vote on any budget and forced continuing resolutions on the American public.

Totally irresponsible, and in my opinion, criminal.

#democratsarecriminals

On top of this, I gave you the most honest answer that you are ever going to get: The repubs denied Merrick Garland his appointment because they could, and it benefited them. Just like the dems have done for the last 8 years. GET OVER IT.

Boom!

Mike Drop


Isn't it something like every dollar spend on social programs makes $1.35? How is that worse than spending a dollar and getting nothing in return? That is what righties live for. Spending with no return on investment. The deficit wend down under both Clinton and Obama and up under GWB and tRump.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
DIRECTFLT
Posts: 2134
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

Re: Supremely Screwed

Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:21 am

seb146 wrote:
MikeDrop wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Maybe the reason Democrats did not allow a vote on a budged was because those budgets increased the deficit? Maybe there was an actual reason other than "because they could"? Of course not. Anything to blame Democrats.

You are exactly right - the dems wanted to spend over a TRILLION dollars a year on social spending and they didn't want to have the votes for the massive deficits on the record in the next election. So they just didnt ever vote on any budget and forced continuing resolutions on the American public.

Totally irresponsible, and in my opinion, criminal.

#democratsarecriminals

On top of this, I gave you the most honest answer that you are ever going to get: The repubs denied Merrick Garland his appointment because they could, and it benefited them. Just like the dems have done for the last 8 years. GET OVER IT.

Boom!

Mike Drop


Isn't it something like every dollar spend on social programs makes $1.35? How is that worse than spending a dollar and getting nothing in return? That is what righties live for. Spending with no return on investment. The deficit wend down under both Clinton and Obama and up under GWB and tRump.


This is why there are elections and political parties.

Trump is Making America Great Again and I think it's wonderful! It will all work out well. I have Faith that it will.
That's my stand.

The Bible says that there will be those who call Darkness...Light, and call Light...Darkness.

By Faith I'm standing on "my" side. That's all I can do. I'm really not moved by those that have opposite views. I don't have to be defensive. I just take what I know is right, and go forward. That's all anyone can do.

Oh, how the Heathen rage !!!

It will be so different now, that they cannot continue to pervert the system through the courts.
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
VTKillarney1
Posts: 289
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:11 pm

Re: Supremely Screwed

Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:49 am

seb146 wrote:
The deficit wend down under both Clinton and Obama and up under GWB and tRump.

Is there a reason why you are posting falsehoods?
https://www.thebalance.com/national-deb ... ma-3306293
 
VTKillarney1
Posts: 289
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:11 pm

Re: Supremely Screwed

Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:54 am

Jouhou wrote:
They are definitely calling for violence and a civil war. It could be Russian trolls, but the right is definitely buying into it.

You swapped the party by accident.

http://freebeacon.com/politics/chris-ma ... stuff/amp/
 
Flaps
Posts: 1603
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2000 1:11 pm

Re: Supremely Screwed

Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:00 am

I'm Supremely delighted at this development. Let's hope ole Ruthy is close behind.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 21512
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Supremely Screwed

Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:21 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
seb146 wrote:
MikeDrop wrote:
You are exactly right - the dems wanted to spend over a TRILLION dollars a year on social spending and they didn't want to have the votes for the massive deficits on the record in the next election. So they just didnt ever vote on any budget and forced continuing resolutions on the American public.

Totally irresponsible, and in my opinion, criminal.

#democratsarecriminals

On top of this, I gave you the most honest answer that you are ever going to get: The repubs denied Merrick Garland his appointment because they could, and it benefited them. Just like the dems have done for the last 8 years. GET OVER IT.

Boom!

Mike Drop


Isn't it something like every dollar spend on social programs makes $1.35? How is that worse than spending a dollar and getting nothing in return? That is what righties live for. Spending with no return on investment. The deficit wend down under both Clinton and Obama and up under GWB and tRump.


This is why there are elections and political parties.

Trump is Making America Great Again and I think it's wonderful! It will all work out well. I have Faith that it will.
That's my stand.

The Bible says that there will be those who call Darkness...Light, and call Light...Darkness.

By Faith I'm standing on "my" side. That's all I can do. I'm really not moved by those that have opposite views. I don't have to be defensive. I just take what I know is right, and go forward. That's all anyone can do.

Oh, how the Heathen rage !!!

It will be so different now, that they cannot continue to pervert the system through the courts.


What does the Constitution say? I am glad you can pick and choose your way through one holy book. So what? If you really want to get technical, go read Matthew 25:40 if you think your holy book is above the law. Why do we have political parties? To separate the corporations from the workers.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 9230
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Supremely Screwed

Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:16 am

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
[code][/code]
seahawk wrote:
You want to go to your secure corner and cry a bit?


do you even know what's happening out there?

this administrations piling on massive debt because of tax cuts for the wealthy. we have a lousy 2 GDP, a trade war brewing, near zero -unemployment but with stagnant wages and rising fuel costs, rising prices, rising interest rates, or haven't you noticed? We worked way to hard on this economy, for a republican president to wreck it again.

this Adm is full of losers, Shame on your party, you have a guy who's left 2 families, brags about grabbing pussy, totally hypocrite, and your standing behind him because why?

you like inflation? you like trade wards? what exactly do you like about this president? The fact that North Korea is ignoring Trump and STLL building up their nuclear weapons.
exactly what do you see in Trump that you like?


One bad government does not lead directly to a third reich scenario. If trump is re-elected and able to reshape the constitution so that it allows an autocratic system, you have a point. But so far this is not happening.
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 21661
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

Re: Supremely Screwed

Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:25 am

seahawk wrote:
One bad government does not lead directly to a third reich scenario.


That's precisely what happened in the Third Reich.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
KLDC10
Posts: 1409
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:15 pm

Re: Supremely Screwed

Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:51 am

DocLightning wrote:
seahawk wrote:
One bad government does not lead directly to a third reich scenario.


That's precisely what happened in the Third Reich.


I hate to jump into this dumpster fire of a thread, but I'm afraid that these Nazi comparisons display a lack of understanding about what happened in Germany in the 1930s.

First of all, the Weimar Republic was governed by an extremely weak Constitution, unlike the United States.

Secondly, Hitler acted very quickly to consolidate his power. In short order, the Enabling Act was passed, which granted him almost unlimited power. In order to do this, the Nazi party openly intimidated their political opponents and even banned some of them from taking their seats in the Reichstag for the vote. There's no chance of that happening in the United States

Thirdly, Hitler didn't go around insulting the press; he shut it down. Newspaper offices ransacked, journalists imprisoned. The only newspapers "allowed" to remain were those which were sympathetic to the Nazis. Now, as far as I can tell, CNN is still open for business despite being the focal point of the President's ire.

Fourthly; Hitler was able to benefit from the fact that the weak Weimar Constitution placed only the President between him and absolute dictatorship. No checks and balances, no Supreme Court which could stay government actions, just one man. And he was old. So when he died in 1936, Hitler quickly named himself Führer.

None of this is in any way comparable to what is happening in the United States. Stop the hyperbole. The term "Nazi" is thrown around with reckless abandon in the USA these days, and if those doing so had even the slightest bit of historical comprehension about how serious an accusation that is, and how dire the situation was in Germany, they might keep their mouths shut.
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User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 9230
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Supremely Screwed

Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:04 pm

DocLightning wrote:
seahawk wrote:
One bad government does not lead directly to a third reich scenario.


That's precisely what happened in the Third Reich.


Nope, the democratic system was eroding since the 190ies. As the parliament was divided more and more, power was concentrated on the position of the chancellor and that happened under left and right governments.
 
VTKillarney1
Posts: 289
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:11 pm

Re: Supremely Screwed

Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:16 pm

The Nazi term is thrown around by people who are either knowingly lying or are ignorant of history. Neither looks good.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 14572
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Supremely Screwed

Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:09 pm

As well noted, the Supreme Court is to be a check on the Executive and Federal Legislative branches, but it has other critical reasons for their existence including to be a check on States if they have laws that conflict with the US Constitution and Federally protected rights in it. The composition of the court can influence the balance of power of the other 2 branches and Federal vs. State Rights. Many want the states to have more power in day to day issues, including access to abortion, civil rights, speech, Federal vs. State regulation and taxation, that is a major point of the battle over who is chosen to the court.
I wish we had a less politicized process of who gets on the SCOTUS, it wasn't that way until the 1980's but numerous decisions that forced real and unpopular changes have created bitter feelings and a desire to re-balance its decisions.
 
cargolex
Posts: 1245
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:20 pm

Re: Supremely Screwed

Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:25 pm

VTKillarney1 wrote:
The Nazi term is thrown around by people who are either knowingly lying or are ignorant of history. Neither looks good.


As a Jewish American with relatives murdered by the Nazis, the the comparison is entirely appropriate.

The Trump "administration" is basically a bunch of Neo-Nazis Fascists who, if their policies were taken to their logical conclusion, would put every non-White, non-Christian, non-Straight person into a concentration camp and murder them.

Trump Supporters have answered every question I ever had about "Why did good people support the rise of the Nazis?" Their motivation is ethno-nationalism, and everything else is just a scrim to cloth ethno-nationalism in more socially acceptable guises.

Because Trump Supporters aren't good people. Certainly not good Americans, and they should stop pretending otherwise.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 21512
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Supremely Screwed

Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:43 pm

cargolex wrote:
VTKillarney1 wrote:
The Nazi term is thrown around by people who are either knowingly lying or are ignorant of history. Neither looks good.


As a Jewish American with relatives murdered by the Nazis, the the comparison is entirely appropriate.

The Trump "administration" is basically a bunch of Neo-Nazis Fascists who, if their policies were taken to their logical conclusion, would put every non-White, non-Christian, non-Straight person into a concentration camp and murder them.

Trump Supporters have answered every question I ever had about "Why did good people support the rise of the Nazis?" Their motivation is ethno-nationalism, and everything else is just a scrim to cloth ethno-nationalism in more socially acceptable guises.

Because Trump Supporters aren't good people. Certainly not good Americans, and they should stop pretending otherwise.


http://www.newsweek.com/anne-frank-cent ... -ii-647888
http://theconversation.com/trump-hitler ... tory-92394

Hatred of other races, blaming other races for your own party's problems, talking about limiting the press, complaining about negative reports on your leader. Sounds pretty Nazi like to me....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 10904
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Supremely Screwed

Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:05 pm

cargolex wrote:
VTKillarney1 wrote:
The Nazi term is thrown around by people who are either knowingly lying or are ignorant of history. Neither looks good.


As a Jewish American with relatives murdered by the Nazis, the the comparison is entirely appropriate.


Godwin's law applies here. Especially if you have relatives (relatives must be a loose term since it happened around 75years ago) you have lost to the Nazi's killing machine, you should not make this comparison. It will lead to nothing and only will alienate people. Trump administration has so many things wrong with it you can just point those out and leave it with that. That is a friendly advice.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
MikeDrop
Posts: 529
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Supremely Screwed

Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:15 pm

seb146 wrote:
cargolex wrote:
Because Trump Supporters aren't good people. Certainly not good Americans, and they should stop pretending otherwise.


http://www.newsweek.com/anne-frank-cent ... -ii-647888
http://theconversation.com/trump-hitler ... tory-92394

Hatred of other races, blaming other races for your own party's problems, talking about limiting the press, complaining about negative reports on your leader. Sounds pretty Nazi like to me....


You ought to read your links before posting them. The second one is actually spot on. From the article:

"Trump-Hitler comparisons too easy and ignore the murderous history"

"But it is my very familiarity with that history that makes me highly skeptical about the inflationary use of such comparisons. They do more to confuse than clarify the urgent issues at stake."

"False equivalency risks trivializing evil ..... The Hitler comparison has, for many, become nothing more than a cudgel for branding someone or something as morally wrong or evil, for making what the Germans call a Totschlagargument: a “knock-out” or “killer” argument intended to end all discussion. "

So, you either didn't read the link you posted - or you agree with the author. Which is it?


Mike Drop
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 21512
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Supremely Screwed

Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:16 pm

MikeDrop wrote:
seb146 wrote:
cargolex wrote:
Because Trump Supporters aren't good people. Certainly not good Americans, and they should stop pretending otherwise.


http://www.newsweek.com/anne-frank-cent ... -ii-647888
http://theconversation.com/trump-hitler ... tory-92394

Hatred of other races, blaming other races for your own party's problems, talking about limiting the press, complaining about negative reports on your leader. Sounds pretty Nazi like to me....


You ought to read your links before posting them. The second one is actually spot on. From the article:

"Trump-Hitler comparisons too easy and ignore the murderous history"

"But it is my very familiarity with that history that makes me highly skeptical about the inflationary use of such comparisons. They do more to confuse than clarify the urgent issues at stake."

"False equivalency risks trivializing evil ..... The Hitler comparison has, for many, become nothing more than a cudgel for branding someone or something as morally wrong or evil, for making what the Germans call a Totschlagargument: a “knock-out” or “killer” argument intended to end all discussion. "

So, you either didn't read the link you posted - or you agree with the author. Which is it?


Mike Drop


The second article is "we are on that road but not there yet and here is why."

My guess is you do not care that we are on the exact same path because at least tRump is an old, rich, white guy.

Resist
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
cargolex
Posts: 1245
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:20 pm

Re: Supremely Screwed

Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:25 pm

Dutchy wrote:
cargolex wrote:
VTKillarney1 wrote:
The Nazi term is thrown around by people who are either knowingly lying or are ignorant of history. Neither looks good.


As a Jewish American with relatives murdered by the Nazis, the the comparison is entirely appropriate.


Godwin's law applies here. Especially if you have relatives (relatives must be a loose term since it happened around 75years ago) you have lost to the Nazi's killing machine, you should not make this comparison. It will lead to nothing and only will alienate people. Trump administration has so many things wrong with it you can just point those out and leave it with that. That is a friendly advice.


You know I guess it must not matter that much because it happened 75 years ago. And the majority of those Holocaust survivors who I met growing up are are dead now, so I guess it doesn't matter anymore, right?

When is it appropriate to point out that this is where we are headed? When the "president" praises neo-Nazis and makes them key parts of his staff? When politicans are inspired by the "president" to run on openly ethno-nationalist platforms? When members of the administration advocate openly and without compunction for ethno-nationalist actions?

The comparison is apt. They are fascists. They may not carry the name "Nazi" on their name badges, but that's who they are. And we should speak out clearly and forcefully about it while we still can.
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 10904
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Supremely Screwed

Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:26 pm

cargolex wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
cargolex wrote:

As a Jewish American with relatives murdered by the Nazis, the the comparison is entirely appropriate.


Godwin's law applies here. Especially if you have relatives (relatives must be a loose term since it happened around 75years ago) you have lost to the Nazi's killing machine, you should not make this comparison. It will lead to nothing and only will alienate people. Trump administration has so many things wrong with it you can just point those out and leave it with that. That is a friendly advice.


You know I guess it must not matter that much because it happened 75 years ago. And the majority of those Holocaust survivors who I met growing up are are dead now, so I guess it doesn't matter anymore, right?

When is it appropriate to point out that this is where we are headed? When the "president" praises neo-Nazis and makes them key parts of his staff? When politicans are inspired by the "president" to run on openly ethno-nationalist platforms? When members of the administration advocate openly and without compunction for ethno-nationalist actions?

The comparison is apt. They are fascists. They may not carry the name "Nazi" on their name badges, but that's who they are. And we should speak out clearly and forcefully about it while we still can.


I applauded anyone whom strives for a better world, anyone whom rises up against undemocratic trends, anyone whom dare to speak out or minorities. That is not the issue, calling them Nazi's will only shift the discussion away from its core and with the Trump administration the core is rotten, no need to convince me of that.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!

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