President Trump tries to grant himself a Fair and Reciprocal Tariff Act

Mortyman · Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:24 am

President Trump tries to grant himself a FART

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4yxFKogJwY

Trump Grants Himself King-Like Powers With FART Act

The Trump administration has put together a draft of new rules. The draft of the new rules are collected under what they’ve called the United States Fair and Reciprocal Tariff Act – in other words, Trump wants to enact the FART Act to grant himself new powers over trade and tariffs that rebuke both US and international laws.

ltbewr · Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:42 am

I am not sure if that is an intended joke or someone didn't look at the acronym it made. I recall after 9/11 the name of the military actions in reaction was initially called The War Against Terror. Note the unfortunate acronym from that. The name then was revised to just War Against Terror, with a far more acceptable acronym.

VTKillarney · Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:11 am

Diaper balloons and fart jokes. The new left, ladies and gentlemen.

Mortyman · Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:34 am

ltbewr wrote:
I am not sure if that is an intended joke or someone didn't look at the acronym it made. I recall after 9/11 the name of the military actions in reaction was initially called The War Against Terror. Note the unfortunate acronym from that. The name then was revised to just War Against Terror, with a far more acceptable acronym.

A joke obviously but what it would represent would not be a joke.

VTKillarney · Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:40 am

What’s missing from the Young Turks blurb is that this is a draft of a bill that would have to be passed by Congress. Calling it a draft “rule” is genuinely fake news.

Mortyman · Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:56 am

VTKillarney wrote:
What’s missing from the Young Turks blurb is that this is a draft of a bill that would have to be passed by Congress. Calling it a draft “rule” is genuinely fake news.

Wich is why I included the Word TRIES in the title.

VTKillarney · Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:10 pm

Mortyman wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
What’s missing from the Young Turks blurb is that this is a draft of a bill that would have to be passed by Congress. Calling it a draft “rule” is genuinely fake news.

Wich is why I included the Word TRIES in the title.

But “grant himself” is incorrect. The act must be approved by Congress.

bgm · Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:03 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Diaper balloons and fart jokes. The new left, ladies and gentlemen.

And someone has no sense of humor.

The same old right, ladies and gentleman.

p.s. Ever wondered why there are no right wing comedians? :duck:

Dutchy · Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:06 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
What’s missing from the Young Turks blurb is that this is a draft of a bill that would have to be passed by Congress. Calling it a draft “rule” is genuinely fake news.

Wich is why I included the Word TRIES in the title.

But “grant himself” is incorrect. The act must be approved by Congress.

Nobody in their right mind would grant the Trump administration these powers. So he probably will get it.

VTKillarney · Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:07 pm

bgm wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Diaper balloons and fart jokes. The new left, ladies and gentlemen.

And someone has no sense of humor.

The same old right, ladies and gentleman.

p.s. Ever wondered why there are no right wing comedians?

There are some. There are likely many in the closet since they are afraid of being blackballed. The left is very intolerant in that way.

And yes, my sense of humor has evolved since first grade when we made fart jokes. I’m quite proud of that.

Defending fart jokes as political discourse... interesting hill to die on.

PanHAM · Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:17 pm

The new US Ambassadr to Germany recently invited the CEOs of VW Daimler and BMW to talk about Tariffs. All of them politely showed up but if the Ambassador was serious, what was the Intention.
Neither the Ambassador nor the CEO can decide anything about tariffs, The US Trade Ministry and the EU Trade Commissioner are in Charge. No one else.

I am not calling it a fart idea, but could it be that this Administration is full of amateurs?

VTKillarney · Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:27 pm

PanHAM wrote:
The new US Ambassadr to Germany recently invited the CEOs of VW Daimler and BMW to talk about Tariffs. All of them politely showed up but if the Ambassador was serious, what was the Intention.
Neither the Ambassador nor the CEO can decide anything about tariffs, The US Trade Ministry and the EU Trade Commissioner are in Charge. No one else.

I am not calling it a fart idea, but could it be that this Administration is full of amateurs?

This seems like a rather desperate attempt to find a problem.

Talking is a good thing - at whatever level.

bgm · Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:50 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
There are some. There are likely many in the closet since they are afraid of being blackballed.

Do you have any evidence to back up this claim, or is this just a wild assumption on your part?

seahawk · Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:55 pm

bgm wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Diaper balloons and fart jokes. The new left, ladies and gentlemen.

And someone has no sense of humor.

The same old right, ladies and gentleman.

p.s. Ever wondered why there are no right wing comedians?

Who needs comedians when you can laugh at the liberals all day long?

VTKillarney · Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:01 pm

bgm wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
There are some. There are likely many in the closet since they are afraid of being blackballed.

Do you have any evidence to back up this claim, or is this just a wild assumption on your part?

Sure:
http://www.latimes.com/business/hollywo ... story.html

But you knew that.

Next question?

bgm · Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:13 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
bgm wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
There are some. There are likely many in the closet since they are afraid of being blackballed.

Do you have any evidence to back up this claim, or is this just a wild assumption on your part?

Sure:
http://www.latimes.com/business/hollywo ... story.html

But you knew that.

Next question?

I'm not debating that there are conservatives in Hollywood. I was referring to comedians. That article you posted showed no anecdotal evidence of right wing comedians.

You're suggesting John Oliver, Jimmy Kimmel et al are closeted right wingers? :rotfl:

seb146 · Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:55 pm

Attack the source instead of debating the actual facts. Classic right wing.

I am not a fan of Young Turks, but they were reporting on something. So what? Also, there is this

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... 81cf538e92

tRump has drafted and executive order to the Commerce Secretary to not allow foreign telecoms to partner with or buy American telecoms. I wonder if that includes ZTE?

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... itely.html

He also "joked" about being president for life.

Here is a quick read on what the act would do

http://www.theweek.co.uk/94719/donald-t ... -explained

It would allow the president to set trade and tariffs with whichever country, instead of playing by WTO rules. So, again, the United States would be left behind. But, from the way the article reads, there is not much support for this act in Congress, so little chance it would be passed or even enforced.

bgm · Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:11 pm

Keeping with the FART jokes, in British English trump is an old fashioned word for passing gas.

VTKillarney · Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:12 pm

seb146 wrote:
Attack the source instead of debating the actual facts. Classic right wing.

When that source is disseminating fake news - you bet.

VTKillarney · Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:15 pm

bgm wrote:
I'm not debating that there are conservatives in Hollywood. I was referring to comedians. That article you posted showed no anecdotal evidence of right wing comedians.

You're suggesting John Oliver, Jimmy Kimmel et al are closeted right wingers?

Okay. First of all, you clearly don't understand the concept of reasonable inferences.

Nobody disputes that the entertainment business is the domain of the left. No sane person, that is. Within the entertainment is industry, there are hundreds of comedians. It is a reasonable inference that some of those comedians are conservative and that they would feel pressure to keep this a secret.

Frankly, the suggestion that no comedians are conservative is an extraordinary claim that would place the burden of proof on you.

But let's go along with your dodging the burden of proof for your extraordinary claim.
Take, for example, the comedian Kelsey Grammer or comedian Evan Sayet.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-repu ... FS20081021

Or comedian Tim Allen.
https://deadline.com/2017/03/tim-allen- ... 202046726/

Next question?

Aesma · Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:45 pm

PanHAM wrote:
The new US Ambassadr to Germany recently invited the CEOs of VW Daimler and BMW to talk about Tariffs. All of them politely showed up but if the Ambassador was serious, what was the Intention.
Neither the Ambassador nor the CEO can decide anything about tariffs, The US Trade Ministry and the EU Trade Commissioner are in Charge. No one else.

I am not calling it a fart idea, but could it be that this Administration is full of amateurs?

A couple of days ago I heard about this on a business radio, they were saying that Germany/Merkel would not be against removing tariffs on cars, and that French manufacturers aren't worried about US competition. I must say I gasped. While it's true that current US made models wouldn't sell in Europe and that US manufacturers have shown no interest in trying to make competitive models in the US for the EU market, instead having production facilities and design centers in Europe for European models (and in the case of GM, dropping out), US competition is not all competition. WTO rules dictate that a tariff on something applies to all WTO members. That means cheaper Korean, Japanese, Chinese cars in the EU market, and that, I doubt French manufacturers (or Seat, Opel, Skoda, Ford, etc.) are going to let it happen for the sake of BMW/Mercedes/Audi/VW.

I know Trump wants to kill the WTO but the EU isn't having it. The US getting out of it (which it is already doing with its illegal tariffs) would probably devastate the global economy, but if all other members stick to it a recovery would be possible.

seahawk · Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:53 pm

WTO rules only apply if both countries remove the tariff. And as long as Korea, China and Japan protect their home market, the EU good tax the cars from there. But it seems the zero tax offer was never sincere on the US side and would exclude pick-ups and light trucks...

cargolex · Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:32 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Diaper balloons and fart jokes. The new left, ladies and gentlemen.

Neo Nazis and fascist sympathizers. The "new" right, ladies and gentleman.

VTKillarney · Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:35 pm

cargolex wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Diaper balloons and fart jokes. The new left, ladies and gentlemen.

Neo Nazis and fascist sympathizers. The "new" right, ladies and gentleman.

Tired old tropes.

https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/1 ... -democracy

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/byron-wi ... 45282.html

Hyperbolic false claims. The new left, ladies and gentlemen.

cargolex · Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:44 pm

VTKillarney wrote:

Hyperbolic false claims. The new left, ladies and gentlemen.

Look at all the time you've spent convincing yourself you're not complicit.

mham001 · Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:53 pm

Aesma wrote:
A couple of days ago I heard about this on a business radio, they were saying that Germany/Merkel would not be against removing tariffs on cars, and that French manufacturers aren't worried about US competition. I must say I gasped. While it's true that current US made models wouldn't sell in Europe and that US manufacturers have shown no interest in trying to make competitive models in the US for the EU market, instead having production facilities and design centers in Europe for European models (and in the case of GM, dropping out), US competition is not all competition. WTO rules dictate that a tariff on something applies to all WTO members. That means cheaper Korean, Japanese, Chinese cars in the EU market, and that, I doubt French manufacturers (or Seat, Opel, Skoda, Ford, etc.) are going to let it happen for the sake of BMW/Mercedes/Audi/VW.

Just as a devil's advocate for now - I think you've presented a good argument for why those rules should change. Why would or should Europe suffer if the US decided it needs to reciprocate Chinese tariff shenanigans? I'd think that a country or union that was playing fairly in trade games would welcome this.

Why are WTO rules the end-all/be-all? Can they not be changed? Frankly, we can find excellent arguments in the other forum for the uselessness of the WTO with many countries simply ignoring WTO rulings when it suits them..

SoJo · Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:39 pm

Bit off topic... But I'm known as a stupid old fart. Better than being called a stupid old 'trump'.

Aesma · Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:08 pm

mham001 : the problems with the WTO stem for the fact the US pushed to have China induced in it when it should never have been.

LMP737 · Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:37 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
The left is very intolerant in that way.

The right is much more tolerant. Unless of course you have brown skin, don't speak American and pray to the wrong imaginary friend. Then, not so much.

VTKillarney · Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:13 pm

LMP737 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
The left is very intolerant in that way.

The right is much more tolerant. Unless of course you have brown skin, don't speak American and pray to the wrong imaginary friend. Then, not so much.

Yeah, the left has done such a great job with minorities in Detroit, Chicago, Los Angeles, Baltimore and whatever other hellholes they have an iron fist on. I suppose that’s why Maxine Waters lives in her district... oh... wait.

mham001 · Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:34 pm

Aesma wrote:
mham001 : the problems with the WTO stem for the fact the US pushed to have China induced in it when it should never have been.

As Bill Clinton always said,"Globalization, baby!".

But what prevents the WTO from simply changing rules to correct those problems?

LMP737 · Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:37 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Yeah, the left has done such a great job with minorities in Detroit, Chicago, Los Angeles, Baltimore and whatever other hellholes they have an iron fist on. I suppose that’s why Maxine Waters lives in her district... oh... wait.

Oh, this is the game you want to play. Why don't we look at which states have the highest and lowest life expediencies.

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/p ... tancy.html

Notice something?

Or how about infant mortality rates?

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosm ... tality.htm

Lets look at obesity rates which can be tied in with life expectancy.

https://stateofobesity.org/adult-obesity/

Then there's education. Look at the top ten and the bottom ten.

https://wallethub.com/edu/most-educated-states/31075/

LMP737 · Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:39 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Okay. First of all, you clearly don't understand the concept of reasonable inferences.

Nobody disputes that the entertainment business is the domain of the left. No sane person, that is. Within the entertainment is industry, there are hundreds of comedians. It is a reasonable inference that some of those comedians are conservative and that they would feel pressure to keep this a secret.

Frankly, the suggestion that no comedians are conservative is an extraordinary claim that would place the burden of proof on you.

But let's go along with your dodging the burden of proof for your extraordinary claim.
Take, for example, the comedian Kelsey Grammer or comedian Evan Sayet.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-repu ... FS20081021

Or comedian Tim Allen.
https://deadline.com/2017/03/tim-allen- ... 202046726/

Next question?

Two words, Dixie Chicks.

VTKillarney · Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:42 pm

LMP737 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Yeah, the left has done such a great job with minorities in Detroit, Chicago, Los Angeles, Baltimore and whatever other hellholes they have an iron fist on. I suppose that’s why Maxine Waters lives in her district... oh... wait.

Oh, this is the game you want to play. Why don't we look at which states have the highest and lowest life expediencies.

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/p ... tancy.html

Notice something?

Or how about infant mortality rates?

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosm ... tality.htm

Lets look at obesity rates which can be tied in with life expectancy.

https://stateofobesity.org/adult-obesity/

Then there's education. Look at the top ten and the bottom ten.

https://wallethub.com/edu/most-educated-states/31075/

I’d take any one of those states over those inner city hellholes.

cargolex · Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:51 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
I’d take any one of those states over those inner city hellholes.

Mainly because you prefer the company of White People.

LMP737 · Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:58 pm

VTKillarney wrote:

I’d take any one of those states over those inner city hellholes.

I'm sorry if the facts made you uncomfortable.

But if you would rather live in one of those states go right ahead. If you move to Alabama don't walk around in bare feat in certain areas. The reason being you might get hookworm since the State of Alabama seems to be uninterested in fixing the sewage issue there.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... nt-poverty

And don't move to Louisiana as they have the highest murder rate.

P.S. Which state do you live in anyway?

VTKillarney · Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:02 am

cargolex wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
I’d take any one of those states over those inner city hellholes.

Mainly because you prefer the company of White People.

Or maybe, just maybe, I don’t want to be the victim of violent crime. But you knew that.

VTKillarney · Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:04 am

LMP737 wrote:

And don't move to Louisiana as they have the highest murder rate.

Thanks for the reminder that I should have added New Orleans to the list. A city with Democrat mayors since 1872.

LockheedBBD · Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:08 am

VTKillarney wrote:

Tired old tropes.

Hyperbolic false claims. The new left, ladies and gentlemen.

cargolex · Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:17 am

VTKillarney wrote:
cargolex wrote:
Or maybe, just maybe, I don’t want to be the victim of violent crime. But you knew that.

Or maybe you just hate urban people of any stripe. They don't vote the way you'd like, after all, and fascist sympathizers usually don't like that.

VTKillarney · Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:26 am

cargolex wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
cargolex wrote:
Or maybe, just maybe, I don’t want to be the victim of violent crime. But you knew that.

Or maybe you just hate urban people of any stripe. They don't vote the way you'd like, after all, and fascist sympathizers usually don't like that.

Your conspiratorial hyperbole gives me so much pleasure.

https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/1 ... -democracy

mham001 · Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:26 am

LMP737 wrote:

Then there's education. Look at the top ten and the bottom ten.

https://wallethub.com/edu/most-educated-states/31075/

Oh look, more BS wallethub studies. Which doesn't say what you think it says. Ambigous "Education Attainment". Do you even know what that means? How about the one that means the most - "Student Achievement"?

So I went and looked. https://isp.netscape.com/news/fte/state ... testscores

Most notably, the 12% of the population residing in California can certainly change to outlook of the list a bit, huh? The 12% of the population which has the highest percentage of high school dropouts. 12% of the population which perennially ranks right down there with Mississippi and Louisiana in student achievement. 12% of the population, more than the 9 other bottom ranked states, red and blue - COMBINED.

States ranked from best to worst for standardized test performance:
1. Massachusetts
2. New Hampshire
3. Minnesota
4. New Jersey
5. Vermont
6. Indiana
7. Virginia
8. Washington
9. Connecticut
10. Wisconsin

41. South Carolina
42. Oklahoma
43. Arkansas
44. Nevada
45. California
46. West Virginia
47. Louisiana
48. Mississippi
49. Alabama
50. New Mexico

I wouldn't be quite so smug like that if I were you.

VTKillarney · Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:33 am

cargolex wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Your conspiratorial hyperbole gives me so much pleasure.

If only it were hyperbole, sadly. You advocate for racist, fascist, destructive policies and deserve to be called out on it, and you've done nothing to convince me otherwise.

But I understand that as your sole purpose here is to be a troll, that any engagement gives you pleasure. Which is disheartening, but, then, pretty much everything about you is disheartening.

Ad hominem time again!

Oh, and...
https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/1 ... -democracy

cargolex · Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:33 am

VTKillarney wrote:
Your conspiratorial hyperbole gives me so much pleasure.

If only it were hyperbole, sadly. You advocate for racist, fascist, destructive policies and deserve to be called out on it, and you've done nothing to convince me otherwise.

But I understand that as your sole purpose here is to be a troll, that any engagement gives you pleasure. Which is disheartening, but, then, pretty much everything about you is disheartening.

Aesma · Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:40 am

mham001 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
mham001 : the problems with the WTO stem for the fact the US pushed to have China induced in it when it should never have been.

As Bill Clinton always said,"Globalization, baby!".

But what prevents the WTO from simply changing rules to correct those problems?

The WTO is basically an international treaty. There is no way to renegotiate it as long as Trump is there.

mham001 · Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:47 am

duplicate

mham001 · Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:48 am

Aesma wrote:
mham001 wrote:

As Bill Clinton always said,"Globalization, baby!".

But what prevents the WTO from simply changing rules to correct those problems?

The WTO is basically an international treaty. There is no way to renegotiate it as long as Trump is there.

But it seems Trump is the one person bringing it to the forefront. If there are "problems" with it, as you said and I believe, why is he the villain here? Have your leaders been squakking about those problems?

I'll admit I have not read up on this, am not well informed and only going by the arguments stated in this thread. The arguments I am reading seem to vindicate the actions of Trump more than villainize. Somebody needs to make a better case than "Trump is bad".

seb146 · Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:30 am

mham001 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
mham001 wrote:

As Bill Clinton always said,"Globalization, baby!".

But what prevents the WTO from simply changing rules to correct those problems?

The WTO is basically an international treaty. There is no way to renegotiate it as long as Trump is there.

But it seems Trump is the one person bringing it to the forefront. If there are "problems" with it, as you said and I believe, why is he the villain here? Have your leaders been squakking about those problems?

I'll admit I have not read up on this, am not well informed and only going by the arguments stated in this thread. The arguments I am reading seem to vindicate the actions of Trump more than villainize. Somebody needs to make a better case than "Trump is bad".

Read the Constitution and how treaties are discussed.

Every damn thing that happened when Obama was president was his fault. Blame Obama was the mantra of the right. Now, when tRump actually does something bad, we can not blame him for what he actually does? How does that work? Who's fault is it? A bus driver runs off a cliff, who do you blame?

seb146 · Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:37 am

LockheedBBD wrote:
seb146 wrote:
How does that work? Who's fault is it? A bus driver runs off a cliff, who do you blame?

Oh, I have the answer for that one, blame Barack Hussein Obama (closeted Muslim according to Breitbart) for conducting an Islamist Terrorist Attack.

DUDE!!! You owe me a monitor and a Deschutes!!! LOL

LockheedBBD · Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:40 am

seb146 wrote:
How does that work? Who's fault is it? A bus driver runs off a cliff, who do you blame?

Oh, I have the answer for that one :hyper:

, blame Barack Hussein Obama (a closeted Muslim according to Breitbart) for conducting an Islamist Terrorist Attack. :rotfl:

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