seb146 wrote:

Seven states do not allow gays to adopt children.

Somebody didn't pay attention in school when they discussed federal preemption.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_ad ... ted_States

EA CO AS wrote:

You may not believe this, but true conservatives don't give a rodent's posterior about what you want to do with your private life, and certainly don't want to see ANYONE'S rights abridged or taken away..

That's why Conservatives have spent literally billions of dollars trying to make sure Gay people can't get married or adopt children and prohibit anti-discrimination ordinances and laws everywhere they can, or make sure Gay people can't get a cake for a wedding. They lost on the weddings as a whole, but so now Conservatives find petty, childish ways to bully LGBT people.

I don't know what kind of "True conservative" you are, but evidently you're a person who lies to themselves just as much as to others. Literally billions of dollars and millions of hours of labor have been spent on trying to stop LGBT equality in the United States by .. American Conservatives, for decades.

At one point conservatives' main idea about LGBT rights was that the concept was a joke. In the days of St. Reagan Conservatives joked that AIDS was god's punishment for being gay. In the White House.

Later on they thought that putting LGBT rights to a vote - you know, because they totally "don't give a rodents' posterior" - was a good idea. They lost on that one, and then turned their money and time to Trans people instead.

Conservatives have consistently used Homophobic and Transphobic attacks on LGBT people to gin up their ignorant, bigoted base, just like they constantly use "fear of brown people" to do the same.

You've lived through it, so I'm surprised you're either so totally ignorant of a major part of the Conservative world or so totally dishonest with yourself that you "just weren't aware" of such things. Or maybe you're just good at lying.

cargolex wrote:

EA CO AS wrote:

You may not believe this, but true conservatives don't give a rodent's posterior about what you want to do with your private life, and certainly don't want to see ANYONE'S rights abridged or taken away..

That's why Conservatives have spent literally billions of dollars trying to make sure Gay people can't get married or adopt children and prohibit anti-discrimination ordinances and laws everywhere they can, or make sure Gay people can't get a cake for a wedding. They lost on the weddings as a whole, but so now Conservatives find petty, childish ways to bully LGBT people.

I don't know what kind of "True conservative" you are, but evidently you're a person who lies to themselves just as much as to others. Literally billions of dollars and millions of hours of labor have been spent on trying to stop LGBT equality in the United States by .. American Conservatives, for decades.

At one point conservatives' main idea about LGBT rights was that the concept was a joke. In the days of St. Reagan Conservatives joked that AIDS was god's punishment for being gay. In the White House.

Later on they thought that putting LGBT rights to a vote - you know, because they totally "don't give a rodents' posterior" - was a good idea. They lost on that one, and then turned their money and time to Trans people instead.

Conservatives have consistently used Homophobic and Transphobic attacks on LGBT people to gin up their ignorant, bigoted base, just like they constantly use "fear of brown people" to do the same.

You've lived through it, so I'm surprised you're either so totally ignorant of a major part of the Conservative world or so totally dishonest with yourself that you "just weren't aware" of such things. Or maybe you're just good at lying.

Let's be crystal clear that four GOP presidential candidates met with a pastor who calls for the extermination of gays, and the leader of the Family Research Council--who thinks his imaginary friend in the sky flooded America because of the gays, but of course not when his house was flooded--has an all access pass to the White House, and none of this is at all out of character for the GOP. These are not outliers. They are "true conservative" bog standard Republicans and have been for decades. Log Cabin Republicans aren't even allowed into the Republican convention in Texas. In 2018. Which is almost hilarious watching the log cabin republicans witness a Republican party even more regressive than Reagan's party, if it weren't so sad.

And now they're draining a fund that provides for HIV care to imprison more kids under Trump's immigration policies.

https://hillreporter.com/trump-draining ... nment-3562

Pence approved slogan ... "MAKGA! Make AIDS Kill Gays Again"

bagoldex wrote:

And now they're draining a fund that provides for HIV care to imprison more kids under Trump's immigration policies.

https://hillreporter.com/trump-draining ... nment-3562

Pence approved slogan ... "MAKGA! Make AIDS Kill Gays Again"

And now the Republicans, who love ripping kids away from their parents and sticking them in cages, are set to keep even more kids in state hands because Jesus:

http://www.joemygod.com/2018/07/11/us-h ... tion-bill/

Seriously log cabin republicans at this point are a hair away from Jews for Hitler.

And here's Trump's favorite whore and fellow bigot conman Franklin Graham again talking about murdering gays. Glory!

http://www.joemygod.com/2018/07/12/fran ... mosexuals/

MaverickM11 wrote:

bagoldex wrote:

And now they're draining a fund that provides for HIV care to imprison more kids under Trump's immigration policies.

https://hillreporter.com/trump-draining ... nment-3562

Pence approved slogan ... "MAKGA! Make AIDS Kill Gays Again"

And now the Republicans, who love ripping kids away from their parents and sticking them in cages, are set to keep even more kids in state hands because Jesus:

http://www.joemygod.com/2018/07/11/us-h ... tion-bill/

Seriously log cabin republicans at this point are a hair away from Jews for Hitler.

And here's Trump's favorite whore and fellow bigot conman Franklin Graham again talking about murdering gays. Glory!

http://www.joemygod.com/2018/07/12/fran ... mosexuals/

I left the US for BC a few years ago, but does this adoption bill really ensure federal funds continue to agencies that refuse to adopt to same sex couples? I thought it was only for private (religious) charities????

1989worstyear wrote:

MaverickM11 wrote:

bagoldex wrote:

And now they're draining a fund that provides for HIV care to imprison more kids under Trump's immigration policies.

https://hillreporter.com/trump-draining ... nment-3562

Pence approved slogan ... "MAKGA! Make AIDS Kill Gays Again"

And now the Republicans, who love ripping kids away from their parents and sticking them in cages, are set to keep even more kids in state hands because Jesus:

http://www.joemygod.com/2018/07/11/us-h ... tion-bill/

Seriously log cabin republicans at this point are a hair away from Jews for Hitler.

And here's Trump's favorite whore and fellow bigot conman Franklin Graham again talking about murdering gays. Glory!

http://www.joemygod.com/2018/07/12/fran ... mosexuals/

I left the US for BC a few years ago, but does this adoption bill really ensure federal funds continue to agencies that refuse to adopt to same sex couples? I thought it was only for private (religious) charities????

Yes of course. And if states don't allow christian discrimination, then the fed gov can withhold 15% of funds.

I always find it amusing the type of threads the so-called “moderate” conservatives (oxymoron?) jump on.

It’s like a dog whistle for them to whitesplain, mansplain, heterosplain, etc. that IN NO WAY am I homophobic (“why I’ll have you know I have a gay friend!).

johnboy wrote:

I always find it amusing the type of threads the so-called “moderate” conservatives (oxymoron?) jump on.

It’s like a dog whistle for them to whitesplain, mansplain, heterosplain, etc. that IN NO WAY am I homophobic (“why I’ll have you know I have a gay friend!).

Are you aware of any LGTBQ rights that the government has taken away? I don’t think that’s its “splainin” to point out that none have. That’s just a fact.

VTKillarney wrote:

johnboy wrote:

I always find it amusing the type of threads the so-called “moderate” conservatives (oxymoron?) jump on.

It’s like a dog whistle for them to whitesplain, mansplain, heterosplain, etc. that IN NO WAY am I homophobic (“why I’ll have you know I have a gay friend!).

Are you aware of any LGTBQ rights that the government has taken away? I don’t think that’s its “splainin” to point out that none have. That’s just a fact.

Oh look, it's the troll. Here to tell us how Conservatives haven't do anything to restrict LGBT rights and we're all just imagining it. Except for the, you know, 40 years of tireless efforts and billions of dollars spent to defame, insult, and demean the lives of LGBT people all over the country and in some cases other countries (It was American Conservatives who introduced Uganda to the "kill the gays" legislation) in addition to attempting to restrict their rights to equal treatment under the law and access to spousal benefits, estate rights, marriage, their right to fight for their country, and a host of other things.

Conservatives have literally spent billions of dollars on this, right up to the here and now where they campaign on the backs of Transphobic bathroom bills and Transgender military bans and the ability to deny service to LGBT folks because that's what Jesus would've done.

I believe it was Jesus who said "Hell no libtard, ya cain't have that cake."

Some Conservatives, like the current Vice President, have been absolutely brutal in their treatment of LGBT people, including denying medical funding for AIDS patients if they were treated by any organization that didn't expressly disavow support for Homosexuality or the times he supported ex-Gay conversion therapy on the record - you know the kind where the torture Gay teenagers, sometimes to death, to turn them straight?

But that doesn't bother the troll. He supports those things. Or is willing to excuse them.

The "true conservatives" don't really support those things, but they're okay with them as long as they can get $25 extra a year shaved off of their taxes.

cargolex wrote:

The "true conservatives" don't really support those things, but they're okay with them as long as they can get $25 extra a year shaved off of their taxes.

One just has to keep in mind that the Taliban are conservatives to know where things are going if you let them.

Best regards
Thomas

tommy1808 wrote:

cargolex wrote:

The "true conservatives" don't really support those things, but they're okay with them as long as they can get $25 extra a year shaved off of their taxes.

One just has to keep in mind that the Taliban are conservatives to know where things are going if you let them.

Best regards
Thomas

Slippery slope logical fallacy. There is no evidence that religious conservatives would, if left to their own devices, be akin to the Taliban.

Evidence ought to matter.

VTKillarney wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

cargolex wrote:

The "true conservatives" don't really support those things, but they're okay with them as long as they can get $25 extra a year shaved off of their taxes.

One just has to keep in mind that the Taliban are conservatives to know where things are going if you let them.

Best regards
Thomas

Slippery slope logical fallacy. There is no evidence that religious conservatives would, if left to their own devices, be akin to the Taliban.

Evidence ought to matter.

But of course, American Conservatives have gone all over the world encouraging violence toward and oppression of LGBT people, such as the "Kill the gays" legislation in Uganda, which originated with American Evangelical Christian Conservatives. They also support things like the previously-mentioned "Conversion therapy," in which LGBT people, some as young as 10 or 11, are tortured to "cure them."

Then there are the other aspects of Christian Dominionists like our Vice President, and conservative activists like David Barton - who have devoted their lives to remaking American history and politics to include specifically Christian dogma - even if they have to make shit up whole cloth. The purpose of such efforts? To subjugate Women and Minorities, and to ensure that America is run by and for White, Conservative, Christian men, with the worst kind of human rights abuses and inequalities justified by Scripture - a justification for which there is no logical counterpoint, because it is not based in logic or secular law.

Left to their own devices, without legal constraint, American Conservatives would absolutely rule like the Taliban - they've proven it time and time again.

cargolex wrote:

Left to their own devices, without legal constraint, American Conservatives would absolutely rule like the Taliban - they've proven it time and time again.

A) That is not true. But give me an example of their "proving it time and time again."
B) If the queen had testicles she'd be the king. Even if what you said was true, which it isn't, we have legal constraints in this country. So your entire argument is irrelevant.

All I can say is that the conservatives I know are incredibly tolerant of homosexuals. I don't know every conservative, but I have yet to meet one that isn't. Most are libertarians at heart - so this makes perfect sense.

VTKillarney wrote:

cargolex wrote:

Left to their own devices, without legal constraint, American Conservatives would absolutely rule like the Taliban - they've proven it time and time again.

A) That is not true. But give me an example of their "proving it time and time again."
B) If the queen had testicles she'd be the king. Even if what you said was true, which it isn't, we have legal constraints in this country. So your entire argument is irrelevant.

All I can say is that the conservatives I know are incredibly tolerant of homosexuals. I don't know every conservative, but I have yet to meet one that isn't. Most are libertarians at heart - so this makes perfect sense.

So you allegedly know some 'gay-tolerant' conservatives. Meanwhile:

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate ... /anti-lgbt

2017 anti-LGBT hate groups (all-conservative groups, of course):

Abiding Truth Ministries* (Springfield, Massachusetts)
Alliance Defending Freedom* (Scottsdale, Arizona)
American College of Pediatricians* (Gainesville, Florida)
American Family Association (Franklin, Pennsylvania)
American Family Association* (Tupelo, Mississippi)
American Vision* (Powder Springs, Georgia)
Americans for Truth About Homosexuality* (Naperville, Illinois)
ATLAH World Missionary Church (All The Land Anointed Holy)* (New York, New York)
Bible Believers Fellowship* (Worthington, Ohio)
Center for Family and Human Rights (C-FAM) (New York, New York)
Center for Family and Human Rights (C-FAM) (Washington, District of Columbia)
Chalcedon Foundation* (Vallecito, California)
Christian Civil Rights Watch (Colorado Springs, Colorado)
Conservative Republicans of Texas (Houston, Texas)
D. James Kennedy Ministries (formerly Truth in Action)* (Fort Lauderdale, Florida)
Faith2Action* (North Royalton, Ohio)
Faithful Word Baptist Church (Tempe, Arizona)
Family Research Council* (Washington, District of Columbia)
Family Research Institute* (Colorado Springs, Colorado)
Family Watch International* (Gilbert, Arizona)
Generations With Vision* (Elizabeth, Colorado)
Heterosexuals Organized for a Moral Environment (H.O.M.E.)* (Downers Grove, Illinois)
Illinois Family Institute (East Peoria, Illinois)
Illinois Family Institute* (Carol Stream, Illinois)
Liberty Counsel* (Orlando, Florida)
Mass Resistance (St. Louis, Missouri)
Mass Resistance (Statewide, Colorado)
Mass Resistance (Statewide, Texas)
Mass Resistance (Torrance, California)
Mass Resistance* (Waltham, Massachusetts)
Mission: America* (Columbus, Ohio)
Pacific Justice Institute* (Sacramento, California)
Pass the Salt Ministries* (Hebron, Ohio)
Pilgrims Covenant Church* (Monroe, Wisconsin)
Probe Ministries* (Plano, Texas)
Public Advocate of the United States (Merrifield, Virginia)
Ruth Institute* (Lake Charles, Louisiana)
Save California* (Sacramento, California)
Stedfast Baptist Church (Jacksonville, Florida)
Stedfast Baptist Church* (Fort Worth, Texas)
The Campus Ministry USA* (Terre Haute, Indiana)
The Pray in Jesus Name Project* (Colorado Springs, Colorado)
Tom Brown Ministries* (El Paso, Texas)
Traditional Values Coalition (Anaheim, California)
Traditional Values Coalition* (Washington, District of Columbia)
True Light Pentecost Church* (Spartanburg, South Carolina)
United Families International* (Gilbert, Arizona)
Verity Baptist Church (Vancouver, Washington)
Verity Baptist Church* (Sacramento, California)
Westboro Baptist Church* (Topeka, Kansas)
World Congress of Families/International Organization for the Family* (Rockford, Illinois)

People here engage in so many logical fallacies.

First of all, the SPLC would say that a group of frogs was a hate group if they looked slightly to the right before leaping. It's why they just had to pay out a settlement in excess of $13 million.

Second, just because there are SOME radical conservatives does not mean that conservatives in general would rule like the Taliban. That's like saying that Democrats if left to their own devices would kill everyone like Stalin did.

But let's be honest. Nobody here really believes that conservatives would run the country identically to the Taliban. These are specious arguments. You will never admit it - but I know that you all know this. This is the PERFECT example of why the left is not making any inroads against Trump. People can only take so many specious arguments before they start tuning out.

VTKillarney wrote:

cargolex wrote:

Left to their own devices, without legal constraint, American Conservatives would absolutely rule like the Taliban - they've proven it time and time again.

A) That is not true. But give me an example of their "proving it time and time again."
B) If the queen had testicles she'd be the king. Even if what you said was true, which it isn't, we have legal constraints in this country. So your entire argument is irrelevant.

All I can say is that the conservatives I know are incredibly tolerant of homosexuals. I don't know every conservative, but I have yet to meet one that isn't. Most are libertarians at heart - so this makes perfect sense.

That's why they all vote for Republicans, who have spent the last 50 years attempting every which way possible to defame LGBT people, demean them in public, tell them that if they get married the world will end (it didn't) and therefore spent billions of hours and dollars on campaigns to stop such an eventuality, campaign tirelessly to legislate discrimination or at least stop anti-discrimination laws (Just look at how much Texas Republicans fundraised on the back of Houston's non-discrimination ordinance) and decry them, or individual republicans who favor things like Conversion therapy or are willing to go on the record against hate crimes legislation ("Because that doesn't happen. Matthew Shepard was a robbery, pure and simple" - Virginia Foxx) or any number of other things.

You don't think of yourself as homophobic or as treating LGBT badly, but you're okay with a party that does (just look at the official platform of the Republican party's 2016 convention) so long as you can get tax cuts or poisoned drinking water or whatever other nonsense you think is good policy. Which makes you complicit.

VTKillarney wrote:

People here engage in so many logical fallacies.

First of all, the SPLC would say that a group of frogs was a hate group if they looked slightly to the right before leaping. It's why they just had to pay out a settlement in excess of $13 million.

Second, just because there are SOME radical conservatives does not mean that conservatives in general would rule like the Taliban. That's like saying that Democrats if left to their own devices would kill everyone like Stalin did.

But let's be honest. Nobody here really believes that conservatives would run the country identically to the Taliban. These are specious arguments. You will never admit it - but I know that you all know this. This is the PERFECT example of why the left is not making any inroads against Trump. People can only take so many specious arguments before they start tuning out.

So in your opinion, the LGBTQ community has no reason at all to be wary or skeptical of Republican party or conservatives in general?

2122M wrote:

VTKillarney wrote:

So in your opinion, the LGBTQ community has no reason at all to be wary or skeptical of Republican party or conservatives in general?

Now you are moving the goalposts. We have changed from Republicans being equated to the Taliban to now just a "concern."

To date I haven't seen the government take away any LGBTQ rights - even though Republicans control the Executive and Congressional branches. That says quite a bit.

VTKillarney wrote:

To date I haven't seen the government take away any LGBTQ rights - even though Republicans control the Executive and Congressional branches. That says quite a bit.

Yes, it says after hundreds of years of struggles to get the point where things are almost, but not quite equal, this bumbling joke of an administration has not completely undone everything. They are taking steps that way though. Didn't they undo the transgender bathroom protections?

2122M wrote:

VTKillarney wrote:

To date I haven't seen the government take away any LGBTQ rights - even though Republicans control the Executive and Congressional branches. That says quite a bit.

Yes, it says after hundreds of years of struggles to get the point where things are almost, but not quite equal, this bumbling joke of an administration has not completely undone everything. They are taking steps that way though. Didn't they undo the transgender bathroom protections?

I was not aware of that, but yes, I see that they have rescinded the policy "in order to further and more completely consider the legal issues involved." Realistically, I agree that they likely aren't looking to get that policy reinstated soon.

But back to the topic at hand. My point was that Republicans are simply not equal to the Taliban. We both know that. If they were, they would have done a WHOLE lot more than this single instance that you cite.

VTKillarney wrote:

2122M wrote:

VTKillarney wrote:

To date I haven't seen the government take away any LGBTQ rights - even though Republicans control the Executive and Congressional branches. That says quite a bit.

Yes, it says after hundreds of years of struggles to get the point where things are almost, but not quite equal, this bumbling joke of an administration has not completely undone everything. They are taking steps that way though. Didn't they undo the transgender bathroom protections?

I was not aware of that, but yes, I see that they have rescinded the policy "in order to further and more completely consider the legal issues involved." Realistically, I agree that they likely aren't looking to get that policy reinstated soon.

But back to the topic at hand. My point was that Republicans are simply not equal to the Taliban. We both know that. If they were, they would have done a WHOLE lot more than this single instance that you cite.

I think the point is, they can't do more because of the checks and balances in place in the US. The comment was (and it wasn't mine) IF conservatives had their way, they would be like the Taliban. And if you look at their stance on social issues and their use of religion as a basis, its not that outrageous of a conclusion.

VTKillarney wrote:

I was not aware of that, but yes, I see that they have rescinded the policy

Shoot first, aim later. Is that your SOP?

2122M wrote:

I think the point is, they can't do more because of the checks and balances in place in the US. The comment was (and it wasn't mine) IF conservatives had their way, they would be like the Taliban. And if you look at their stance on social issues and their use of religion as a basis, its not that outrageous of a conclusion.

That point is flawed. Patently so.

Think about it this way. Of the 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, the Taliban is a radical subset that represents about 0.001 percent of Muslims. And yet you insist that the mainstream Republicans, many of whom are libertarians, are completely analogous to the Taliban. How absurd. This is EXACTLY why the left isn’t gaining ground. When your first tactic is hyperbole, you just won’t be taken seriously.

2122M wrote:

I think the point is, they can't do more because of the checks and balances in place in the US. The comment was (and it wasn't mine) IF conservatives had their way, they would be like the Taliban. And if you look at their stance on social issues and their use of religion as a basis, its not that outrageous of a conclusion.

People that try to feel how far they can go within the legal boundaries will inadvertently burst through those if those boundaries when they become soft.

(US)"Americans" are not their own species and hence US conservatives aren´t either. So, there is no specific need to proof that US "Christian" conservatives* would act like Taliban if they could, there is historically zero reason to believe they wouldn´t. Try to find a social conservative, religiously motivated movement that didn´t get out of line quite quickly the very moment they could.

The Taliban are just very faithful, religious people that have virtually the same religion as Christians (or Jews for that matter), with much of the same scripture and much of the same commandments on the books.

best regards
Thomas

tommy1808 wrote:

The Taliban are just very faithful, religious people that have virtually the same religion as Christians (or Jews for that matter), with much of the same scripture and much of the same commandments on the books.

best regards
Thomas

Ermmmmmmmmmmmm . . .

VTKillarney wrote:

2122M wrote:

Think about it this way. Of the 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, the Taliban is a radical subset that represents about 0.001 percent of Muslims. And yet you insist that the mainstream Republicans, many of whom are libertarians, are completely analogous to the Taliban. How absurd. This is EXACTLY why the left isn’t gaining ground. When your first tactic is hyperbole, you just won’t be taken seriously.

And yet we spend trillions of dollars fighting an extreme Muslim threat that affects fewer people than falling furniture in the US, while evangelical creatures infest the government at every level, knowing their new leader and moral/ethical compass will let them shred LGBT (and other) rights as quickly as possible. Yesterday good Trump friend Tony Perkins--the one that thinks his imaginary friend in the sky sends floods b/c of teh gheyz...except not when it floods his home--stated it was a mistake to decriminalize homosexuality. He recently had Pompeo on his show in case you think he's a freak sideshow. For chrissakes we sent neanderthal Robert Jeffries to Israel to pray at the new embassy--he is one (of many, many, including the Graham family cesspit) who call Jews the synagogue of satan, and tells them they're going to hell. And yet that is totally moderate, middle of the road for the GOP. This administration can't even bring itself to condemn Nazis and *surprise* Nazis and white supremacists are starting to run for office all over the place as republicans. Do I think most of the GOP hate Jews and LGBT? No--in general the majority probably could care less, but at the very least, they're totally complicit.

VTKillarney wrote:

To date I haven't seen the government take away any LGBTQ rights - even though Republicans control the Executive and Congressional branches. That says quite a bit.

Yes it says you're not paying attention. Friday MI's attorney general rescinded the prohibition on LGBT discrimination. Discrimination is a core conservative value.

MaverickM11 wrote:

he is one (of many, many, including the Graham family cesspit) who call Jews the synagogue of satan, and tells them they're going to hell. .

Well, i guess he needs them to rebuilt the temple for Jesus to come back. To bad that the plan for what happens to the Jews after that event is very much a final solution for them.

best regards
Thomas