seb146
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:15 pm

I find it interesting that the OP goes on and on about how "crazy" college students are. So much contradiction. OP loves freedom of speech and freedom of opinion but hates that college students and professors at a public university speak their minds and have opinions he does not agree with.

So, the courts are being stacked in favor of Biblical law over Constitutional law. Marriage equality, even though it has been ruled to be the law of the land, will be overturned. Abortions will be severely limited, redistricting to water down any vote other than right will be acceptable.

I wonder how often John Roberts will side with "liberals" in some of these cases. I know he leans more right but I can see him siding with RBG and Sotomayor on many cases and having a 5-4 majority for "liberals."

BTW, to the OP, you are no longer allowed to complain when we say "tRump."
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Alias1024
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:21 pm

Kavanaugh is certainly well qualified for the job, but I don’t think this is in the bag quite yet. There’s a hell of a long paper trail to look through with his work on Ken Starr’s investigation of president Clinton, the George W Bush campaign, and president GWBs administration. Who knows what was written in a seemingly insignificant memo 15 or 20 years ago.

I’m going to have to read some opinions of his from the DC circuit and see if I can find some of his scholarly work so I can get a better feel for his philosophy.

VTKillarney wrote:
Trump's pick is pretty savvy in at least one regard.

I have never believed that Trump wants to see Roe v. Wade overturned. I doubt that was a concern of his when selecting a nominee.

In his 2006 confirmation hearing, Kavanaugh said he would follow Roe v. Wade "faithfully and fully."

This gives a LOT of cover to Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski. Cover that Susan Collins indicating that she was looking for.

So Trump gets a candidate that will deliver for him on economic and other matters while conceding Roe v. Wade, which he never really cared about in the first place.

This shows the folly of the left making Roe v. Wade the lightning rod issue. Everyone is so focused on that one issue, that they don't pay enough attention to the other issues.


I’m not sure comments made in his confirmation hearing to the federal court of appeals give us a picture into how he will vote on the Supreme Court. He knew he would have a court above him that had the votes to overturn his decisions if he strayed from Roe v. Wade. That will no longer be the case.

I also don’t think the left is alone in making Roe v. Wade a lightning rod issue. I think at least as much of the blame goes to the evangelical community that has been focused on the issue for decades and made it a litmus test for Republican candidates up and down the ticket. The left followed suit when they saw abortion rights threatened and here we are.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:23 pm

The point is completely lost on you.

Let me repeat it. Both parties have whackos. Defining an entire party based solely on its fringe whackos is intellectually dishonest. Period.
 
2122M
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:29 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
The point is completely lost on you.

Let me repeat it. Both parties have whackos. Defining an entire party based solely on its fringe whackos is intellectually dishonest. Period.


So why do you think 100% of the nazi's and white supremacists in this country wholeheartedly support Trump?
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:44 pm

seahawk wrote:
Any judge who would not overturn Roe v. Wade is too liberal and Kavanaugh lacks Christian values. Not a great pick. Better than a crazy liberal, but not as conservative as many hoped for.


We'll get there...

After the Mid-Term elections, Trump will replace RBG (a white woman) with Amy Coney Barrett, another (white) woman, keeping the sexual diversity of the court the same... Everyone Should Rejoice ! ! !
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:51 pm

2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
The point is completely lost on you.

Let me repeat it. Both parties have whackos. Defining an entire party based solely on its fringe whackos is intellectually dishonest. Period.


So why do you think 100% of the nazi's and white supremacists in this country wholeheartedly support Trump?


I go with my gut and I don't consider who the nazi's and white supremacists in this country wholeheartedly support when making my political choices.

I do however consider who the progressive marxist left wholeheartedly support.
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
Alias1024
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:53 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
The point is completely lost on you.

Let me repeat it. Both parties have whackos. Defining an entire party based solely on its fringe whackos is intellectually dishonest. Period.


I agree that both parties have whackos and I understood your point that there is a lot more at stake than just Roe. I simply disagreed with how what you wrote blamed the left for making it a lightning rod issue, but not the right.

That said, Roe is a deeply important issue for a lot of people, and for obvious reasons. Frankly, people can only focus on so much at once and I’m not sure anyone on the left really cares much if things like the Chevron doctrine end up in history’s dustbin. They should care, but there’s only so much brain power that people not practicing or well versed in constitutional law can put toward the subject, so they pick a few big issues they care about and judge a nominee from there.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
seb146
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:55 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Any judge who would not overturn Roe v. Wade is too liberal and Kavanaugh lacks Christian values. Not a great pick. Better than a crazy liberal, but not as conservative as many hoped for.


We'll get there...

After the Mid-Term elections, Trump will replace RBG (a white woman) with Amy Coney Barrett, another (white) woman, keeping the sexual diversity of the court the same... Everyone Should Rejoice ! ! !


I don't know why you righties hate Democrats. In fact, you should vote for Democrats all the time because we have that old rich Christian white guy.

See how silly that sounds? That is exactly how you righties sound when you all make comments like that.

Judge someone by the content of their character and not the content of their skin. Or what they have or don't have between their legs.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
2122M
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:55 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
The point is completely lost on you.

Let me repeat it. Both parties have whackos. Defining an entire party based solely on its fringe whackos is intellectually dishonest. Period.


So why do you think 100% of the nazi's and white supremacists in this country wholeheartedly support Trump?


I go with my gut and I don't consider who the nazi's and white supremacists in this country wholeheartedly support when making my political choices.

I do however consider who the progressive marxist left wholeheartedly support.


Turning a blind eye to Nazis? You must feel pretty good about that I guess.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:57 pm

Alias1024 wrote:
I agree that both parties have whackos and I understood your point that there is a lot more at stake than just Roe. I simply disagreed with how what you wrote blamed the left for making it a lightning rod issue, but not the right.

The right certainly makes it a lightning rod issue as well. They just aren’t suffering the negative consequences of that right now.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:00 pm

2122M wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
2122M wrote:

So why do you think 100% of the nazi's and white supremacists in this country wholeheartedly support Trump?


I go with my gut and I don't consider who the nazi's and white supremacists in this country wholeheartedly support when making my political choices.

I do however consider who the progressive marxist left wholeheartedly support.


Turning a blind eye to Nazis? You must feel pretty good about that I guess.

Translation: By not being a Nazi you are a Nazi.

Got it.
 
mham001
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:05 pm

2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
The fact of the matter is, Antonin Scalia died in February of 2016 and the GOP senate decided that was too close to the November election to push through a new justice. That was the precedent they set. Now, Kennedy announced his retirement in July, 5 months sooner to a national election that could very well flip the senate, which has as big of an effect on the eventual confirmation of a SCOTUS justice as a change in the White House.

Will the GOP recognize the precedent they set 2 years ago? Obviously not, but it is impossible to ignore the hypocrisy there.

Apples to oranges. One was a presidential election. The other is a mid-term election,


Can a president appoint a SCOTUS justice without the senate's approval? No. Seems to me that both parties play an equal role in this process. Almost as if (and bear with me as this is kind of a crazy theory) the whole system was designed that way.

So by that logic, the makeup of the Senate is equally as important as the occupant of the White House.

Apples to Apples.


By this logic, a judge can only be appointed half the time. Sure, makes perfect sense.

Intersting how things work out over time. Who's 'Borked' now?
 
2122M
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:13 pm

mham001 wrote:
2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Apples to oranges. One was a presidential election. The other is a mid-term election,


Can a president appoint a SCOTUS justice without the senate's approval? No. Seems to me that both parties play an equal role in this process. Almost as if (and bear with me as this is kind of a crazy theory) the whole system was designed that way.

So by that logic, the makeup of the Senate is equally as important as the occupant of the White House.

Apples to Apples.


By this logic, a judge can only be appointed half the time. Sure, makes perfect sense.

Intersting how things work out over time. Who's 'Borked' now?


How did you come to that conclusion?
 
2122M
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:15 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:

I go with my gut and I don't consider who the nazi's and white supremacists in this country wholeheartedly support when making my political choices.

I do however consider who the progressive marxist left wholeheartedly support.


Turning a blind eye to Nazis? You must feel pretty good about that I guess.

Translation: By not being a Nazi you are a Nazi.

Got it.


When did I say that? You really are a stickler for accuracy in statements unless its you. I never called him a Nazi. I just think its a poor idea to ignore the rise in Nazi sentiment in this country. But he's willing to do that in order to feel good about supporting Trump.

Bring VTKillarney1 back. That version of you was better at this.....
Last edited by 2122M on Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:23 pm

seb146 wrote:
So, the courts are being stacked in favor of Biblical law over Constitutional law.


So America is turning into a theocracy, not unlike Iran, ironically.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
seb146
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:25 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
The point is completely lost on you.

Let me repeat it. Both parties have whackos. Defining an entire party based solely on its fringe whackos is intellectually dishonest. Period.


So why do you think 100% of the nazi's and white supremacists in this country wholeheartedly support Trump?


I go with my gut and I don't consider who the nazi's and white supremacists in this country wholeheartedly support when making my political choices.

I do however consider who the progressive marxist left wholeheartedly support.


So all of the racists and Nazis and KKK who hold signs in support of tRump and who rally in support of Republicans are not really racists, Nazis and KKK?

Also, you seem to know oh, so much about "progressive marxist left" so tell us all about them. Please. Who do they support? You seem to know, so tell us.

I will bet dollars to doughnuts it is the same people the right has been told to hate this whole time: Clinton, Obama, Maxine, Pelosi.....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:42 pm

2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
I just think its a poor idea to ignore the rise in Nazi sentiment in this country.

What evidence do you have that Nazi sentiment is on the rise? You may be right, but if you are going to throw a claim out there you should be able to back it up.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:46 pm

2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:

What evidence do you have that Nazi sentiment is on the rise? You may be right, but if you are going to throw a claim out there you should be able to back it up.


Common knowledge, plenty of coverage. Do your own research. Or be a lazy troll, up to you.

Translation: I just threw it out there without really knowing if it is true.

It is a basic rule in civil debate that if you make a claim, you bear the burden of proof.
 
2122M
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:49 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
I just think its a poor idea to ignore the rise in Nazi sentiment in this country.

What evidence do you have that Nazi sentiment is on the rise? You may be right, but if you are going to throw a claim out there you should be able to back it up.


Common knowledge, plenty of coverage. Do your own research. Or be a lazy troll, up to you.
 
2122M
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:53 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
In his 2006 confirmation hearing, Kavanaugh said he would follow Roe v. Wade "faithfully and fully."

This gives a LOT of cover to Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski. Cover that Susan Collins indicating that she was looking for.


A lower court justice is required by law to uphold adhere to Supreme Court rulings. Saying he would follow Roe v Wade during a lower court confirmation hearing is like a McDonalds line cook saying he won't change the Big Mac recipe during his interview. However, once that line cook gets to be head chef, he can do what he wants.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:53 pm

2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
What do you call people that voted for Hilary?

Members of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences?


The Majority?

Not of Electoral College electors. Which is all that actually matters.
 
2122M
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:55 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
What do you call people that voted for Hilary?

Members of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences?


The Majority?

Anyway, the question wasn't directed to you, was it?
 
2122M
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:04 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Members of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences?


The Majority?

Not of Electoral College electors. Which is all that actually matters.


A) I didn't say the Electoral college. did I?
B) I wasn't asking you in the first place.

If you want to engage with me, get back to the losing argument you were making about Bob Casey vs the 2016 GOP Senators. Or explain why the GOP should push this nomination through so close to an election when the refused to do so in 2016. And yes, it is the same. The President and the Senate have to agree, so both opinions matter equally. Trump would have picked a more moderate nominee if he had a democratic senate to deal with.

Or continue to lie by saying I called another poster a Nazi.

Or continue to edit other people quotes so you can respond the way you want.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:07 pm

2122M wrote:

If you want to engage with me ... explain why the GOP should push this nomination through so close to an election when the refused to do so in 2016.

Sure thing!

The Republicans should "push through" the nomination because they are in power and they can - and everyone knows that the Democrats would "push it through" if they were in the same situation.

If I honestly believed that the Democrats would handle this differently I might have another opinion.

Welcome to politics, old boy. Elections have consequences.
Last edited by VTKillarney on Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:15 pm

2122M wrote:
I didn't ask what they will do, I asked what they should do. From a centrist, moderate standpoint, are they or are they not hypocrites for denying the Garland hearing but pushing the Kavanagh hearing?

As a moderate, I fully appreciate that the Republicans do not answer to moderates. Neither do Democrats, for that matter.

That said, I have consistently said that the Garland nomination process troubled me and that I personally would have liked to see the process take place.

Moving forward with this nomination does not trouble me in the slightest. While I know that you do not agree, I believe that there is a big difference between a presidential election and a mid-term election.

Simply put, I like the concept that when a Justice resigns, the process of replacing that Justice takes place under the current sitting President.

But the world is not perfect and I accept that. The parties are adversarial and both bear responsibility for what happened in the Garland situation.
 
2122M
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:17 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:

If you want to engage with me ... explain why the GOP should push this nomination through so close to an election when the refused to do so in 2016.

Sure thing!

The Republicans should "push through" the nomination because they are in power and they can - and everyone knows that the Democrats would "push it through" if they were in the same situation.

Welcome to politics, old boy. Elections have consequences.


I didn't ask what they will do, I asked what they should do. From a centrist, moderate standpoint, are they or are they not hypocrites for denying the Garland hearing but pushing the Kavanagh hearing?
 
2122M
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:27 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
I didn't ask what they will do, I asked what they should do. From a centrist, moderate standpoint, are they or are they not hypocrites for denying the Garland hearing but pushing the Kavanagh hearing?

As a moderate, I fully appreciate that the Republicans do not answer to moderates. Neither do Democrats, for that matter.

That said, I have consistently said that the Garland nomination process troubled me and that I personally would have liked to see the process take place.

Moving forward with this nomination does not trouble me in the slightest. While I know that you do not agree, I believe that there is a big difference between a presidential election and a mid-term election.


And this is why you are not a moderate. The Merrick Garland situation 'troubled you', but Bob Casey's stance on the Trump nominee is 'Genuinely Scary'.
.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:37 pm

Here's a reason Kavenaugh should not be a pick. He is a moron about how the internet works.


https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/201 ... D=ref_fark

""Internet service providers may not necessarily generate much content of their own, but they may decide what content they will transmit, just as cable operators decide what content they will transmit," Kavanaugh wrote. "Deciding whether and how to transmit ESPN and deciding whether and how to transmit ESPN.com are not meaningfully different for First Amendment purposes.""

The idiot does not understand the difference between Subscription and Request. He is woefully too stupid to be a good judge.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:58 pm

News for Democrats keeps getting worse.

A majority of respondents in Senate battleground states think President Trump's nominee for the Supreme Court should be confirmed.
https://www.sba-list.org/newsroom/press ... -kavanaugh
 
trpmb6
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:12 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Trump's pick is pretty savvy in at least one regard.

I have never believed that Trump wants to see Roe v. Wade overturned. I doubt that was a concern of his when selecting a nominee.

In his 2006 confirmation hearing, Kavanaugh said he would follow Roe v. Wade "faithfully and fully."

This gives a LOT of cover to Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski. Cover that Susan Collins indicating that she was looking for.

So Trump gets a candidate that will deliver for him on economic and other matters while conceding Roe v. Wade, which he never really cared about in the first place.

This shows the folly of the left making Roe v. Wade the lightning rod issue. Everyone is so focused on that one issue, that they don't pay enough attention to the other issues.


I've been telling this to all my friends today. In reality nearly all judges (this is especially true of right of center judges) are loathe to go against existing precedent. Changes certainly happen - as they should - for instance in cases like brown v board of education.

I think the left overplayed their hand (again) in trying to make this an issue about Roe V Wade. Now they have to explain why they are willing to denounce the most qualified supreme court nominee in decades.

His resume:
Judge on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, 2006-present
Assistant to the president and staff secretary, White House, 2003-06
senior associate counsel and associate counsel, White House, 2001-03
partner, Kirkland & Ellis, 1997-98, 1999-2001
associate counsel, Office of Independent Counsel, 1994-97, 1998
law clerk for Associate Justice Anthony Kennedy, 1993-94
attorney, Office of the Solicitor General, Department of Justice, 1992-93.


Contrast that with his (probable) colleagues:

Like Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Clarence Thomas, he has served on the second-most powerful court in the nation. Like Justices Anthony Kennedy, Stephen Breyer, Samuel Alito, Sonia Sotomayor and Neil Gorsuch, he brings more than a decade's experience as a federal appeals court judge. And like Justice Elena Kagan, he has worked at the side of a two-term president.


Per NYT:
Justice Elena Kagan, who was then dean of Harvard Law School, hired Kavanaugh to teach there, he said.


Of particular note to me was the fact that Kavanaugh has written several dissents while serving on the DC court of appeals that went on to be validated by the SCOTUS. (in other words the majority rulings that he was dissenting against were overturned and he was vindicated.)

For what it is worth, I think Kavanaugh is a similar cut of cloth as Kennedy - maybe a touch more socially conservative, but not much. Of the three picks that were being floated in the final days I would think Kavanaugh would be the most palatable to liberals.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:16 pm

More REALLY bad news for Democrats.

Collins and Murkowski appear to be on board.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/ ... ion-707545
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:26 pm

2122M wrote:
And this is why you are not a moderate. The Merrick Garland situation 'troubled you', but Bob Casey's stance on the Trump nominee is 'Genuinely Scary'.

As I have explained multiple times now, one action was completely consistent with the Constitution. The other runs counter to it. That is a BIG difference.
 
trpmb6
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:27 pm

Kavanaugh really was the safe choice in this situation. And I honestly like that we see a nominee who has an extensive bench record (unlike Kagan - who as I noted by the way was once Kavanaugh's boss - he was good enough for her so really the left has nothing to stand on here).
 
Bricktop
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:42 pm

2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
The point is completely lost on you.

Let me repeat it. Both parties have whackos. Defining an entire party based solely on its fringe whackos is intellectually dishonest. Period.


So why do you think 100% of the nazi's and white supremacists in this country wholeheartedly support Trump?

Do you think that a party is defined only by its extremes? Tell me who looks good applying that logic.
 
2122M
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:47 pm

Bricktop wrote:
2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
The point is completely lost on you.

Let me repeat it. Both parties have whackos. Defining an entire party based solely on its fringe whackos is intellectually dishonest. Period.


So why do you think 100% of the nazi's and white supremacists in this country wholeheartedly support Trump?

Do you think that a party is defined only by its extremes? Tell me who looks good applying that logic.


You answered my question with a question. I'm curious as to why you think Nazi's and white supremacists are drawn to Trump and this GOP. I'm not saying all republicans are Nazis and I'm not implying Nazi's define the GOP. I just am curious as to why you think all neo-Nazi's are bit Trump supporters.
 
2122M
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:50 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
And this is why you are not a moderate. The Merrick Garland situation 'troubled you', but Bob Casey's stance on the Trump nominee is 'Genuinely Scary'.

As I have explained multiple times now, one action was completely consistent with the Constitution. The other runs counter to it. That is a BIG difference.


Agree to disagree I guess. Nothing scary to me about a liberal not liking a conservative appointment. Plenty scary about a political party perverting the system to prevent even as much as a hearing for the Supreme Court.

But you're point of view certainly favors conservatives, so I'm not surprised you have that opinion.
 
apodino
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:50 pm

seb146 wrote:
I find it interesting that the OP goes on and on about how "crazy" college students are. So much contradiction. OP loves freedom of speech and freedom of opinion but hates that college students and professors at a public university speak their minds and have opinions he does not agree with.

I will say this. Everyone has a right to speak their mind. I have no issues with these people speaking their mind. I do have issues when these institutions do things that punish people they don't agree with for doing the same. Not allowing conservative speakers for example to speak, or grading a paper lower for taking a position that contradicts the professors personal beliefs. And don't get me started on the censorship that sometimes happens on youtube and facebook and similar sites.

seb146 wrote:
So, the courts are being stacked in favor of Biblical law over Constitutional law. Marriage equality, even though it has been ruled to be the law of the land, will be overturned. Abortions will be severely limited, redistricting to water down any vote other than right will be acceptable.


I wonder how often John Roberts will side with "liberals" in some of these cases. I know he leans more right but I can see him siding with RBG and Sotomayor on many cases and having a 5-4 majority for "liberals."


Here is what I don't get about the same sex marriage debate. The democrats controlled both houses of congress and the White House after Obama was elected and they could have easily passed a law then to overturn the Defense of Marriage act. They didn't do it. Same Sex marriage is not defined in any legal document, all that is stated is that marriage is between a man and a woman. The 14th amendment can be interpreted in a number of ways. One way is that every man has the same opportunity to marry a woman and vice versa. Every individual has that equal right. If it is interpreted that way, then there is nothing unconstitutional about the defense of marriage act. The way that it was interpreted in the recent SCOTUS ruling was that because it didn't allow for same sex couples to enjoy the same marriage benefits as opposite sex couples it was unconstitutional. Where I think the court erred is that by that definition, the institution of marriage as defined by law at the time was unconstitutional. I believe the powers of the judiciary end there. However, instead of declaring marriage unconstitutional, they rewrote it from the bench. By doing so, they opened up the possibility of unelected judges in the future who have a different view of the constitution to rule differently. Every other country on the planet that has enacted same sex marriage has done so legislatively. We should do so in this country. If we did, there is no way that a conservative judge would ever vote against it. Same with other hot button issues like abortion, and Health Care. These are best left to the legislative process, and not the judicial process. Roberts recognized this and that's why Obamacare is still around. Abortion was never decided legislatively. And if you look at history, the right for blacks to vote, the right for women to vote, all came through the legislative process. The courts never decided any of these issues. I would have no issue with Same Sex marriage being passed legislatively, and I think it should be because its the only way to prevent judges from overturning Oberfell.

I don't believe that the conservative justices practice Christian law, but I do believe they practice constitutional law. You and I can differ on what we believe that means. As far as redistricting goes, this is another area that Congress needs to address, because the constitution and federal law based on my limited knowledge dont seem to provide any firm rules on this, and it can be argued that the tenth amendment applies in this situation. Which leaves it up to the states.


To summarize my thoughts. Laws should be passed to protect same sex couples rights period, rather than reliance on court rulings. Conservatives should not rely on courts overturning Roe V Wade to reduce abortions, but should be doing other things to actually help these women out. Kavanaugh is a judge who I believe will follow the constitution and will interpret the law and not make the law. And no American should every rely on a court to implement change or protect rights that arent clearly spelled out. Thats the job of Congress. And its a job they really need to actually start doing.
 
Bricktop
Posts: 879
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:04 am

Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:56 pm

2122M wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
2122M wrote:

So why do you think 100% of the nazi's and white supremacists in this country wholeheartedly support Trump?

Do you think that a party is defined only by its extremes? Tell me who looks good applying that logic.


You answered my question with a question. I'm curious as to why you think Nazi's and white supremacists are drawn to Trump and this GOP. I'm not saying all republicans are Nazis and I'm not implying Nazi's define the GOP. I just am curious as to why you think all neo-Nazi's are bit Trump supporters.

It's a "When did you stop beating your wife?" question, and I am not interested in playing those rhetorical games.
In the US, it is a "lesser of two evils" choice. All the left wing nut jobs voted for Hillary for the same reason.
 
2122M
Posts: 664
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:09 pm

Bricktop wrote:
2122M wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
Do you think that a party is defined only by its extremes? Tell me who looks good applying that logic.


You answered my question with a question. I'm curious as to why you think Nazi's and white supremacists are drawn to Trump and this GOP. I'm not saying all republicans are Nazis and I'm not implying Nazi's define the GOP. I just am curious as to why you think all neo-Nazi's are bit Trump supporters.

It's a "When did you stop beating your wife?" question, and I am not interested in playing those rhetorical games.
In the US, it is a "lesser of two evils" choice. All the left wing nut jobs voted for Hillary for the same reason.


Its not a rhetorical question. Its a fact that neo Nazis love Trump. I'm just curious as to why you think that is.

I'm not calling you a Nazi, I want to be clear on that. But you are clearly conservative and may have some insight as to why your party and its leader are so appealing to white supremacists.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 6829
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:11 pm

apodino wrote:

And no American should every rely on a court to implement change or protect rights that arent clearly spelled out. Thats the job of Congress. And its a job they really need to actually start doing.



Judges are there to Judge based on what the law says and implies in the current environment. The absence of a law is not a reason to deny justice based on existing precident. The Supreme Court is there to put a check on the executive branch's execution of laws as it is to put a check on bad laws written by Congress. It''s called Checks and Balances.
Currently the GOP is trying to turn our Government into a Circle Jerk. Where if there is no law, then people suffer.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
User avatar
VTKillarney
Posts: 803
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:13 pm

Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:15 pm

2122M wrote:
Plenty scary about a political party perverting the system to prevent even as much as a hearing for the Supreme Court.

No matter how much you wish it were the case, it's not "perverting the system" if the Constitution provides the authority to do it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ee/482733/
 
2122M
Posts: 664
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:27 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
Plenty scary about a political party perverting the system to prevent even as much as a hearing for the Supreme Court.

No matter how much you wish it were the case, it's not "perverting the system" if the Constitution provides the authority to do it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ee/482733/


The constitution has allowed a lot of piss poor practices in the past. Including this. Doesn't make it right.

But how DARE Senator Casey be against a conservative justice.
 
User avatar
VTKillarney
Posts: 803
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:13 pm

Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:29 pm

casinterest wrote:
Judges are there to Judge based on what the law says and implies in the current environment.

That's what you think. You are not alone.

Other people think that judges should only judge based on what the law says and not what it merely "implies in the current environment." Those people believe that, when times have changed, Congress is free to pass laws that reflect those changes.

casinterest wrote:
The absence of a law is not a reason to deny justice based on existing precident.

This muddles some terms and is very hard to respond to. If there is "existing precident [sic]" then there is not an absence of law. You appear to be confused as to the difference between case law and statute.

Should courts be deferential to precedent? Sure. Neither side has ever argued that concept.

Should courts essentially make up laws when there are none? That goes back to what I discussed, above.

But remember this. The left likes the idea of courts making up laws where there are none. And that is EXACTLY why the left is so scared of what is happening with the court. Instead of getting Amendments and laws passed, they relied solely on the courts to do the work. They now want to put that genie back in the bottle.

casinterest wrote:
The Supreme Court is there to put a check on the executive branch's execution of laws as it is to put a check on bad laws written by Congress. It''s called Checks and Balances.

Uh... okay. Nobody has argued against that concept.
Last edited by VTKillarney on Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
windy95
Posts: 2723
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:11 pm

Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:30 pm

I am not sure if I can handle anymore of this winning. Another great pick for SCOTUS for President trump.
non nobis Domine non nobis sed nomini tuo da gloriam
 
Bricktop
Posts: 879
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:04 am

Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:32 pm

2122M wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
2122M wrote:

You answered my question with a question. I'm curious as to why you think Nazi's and white supremacists are drawn to Trump and this GOP. I'm not saying all republicans are Nazis and I'm not implying Nazi's define the GOP. I just am curious as to why you think all neo-Nazi's are bit Trump supporters.

It's a "When did you stop beating your wife?" question, and I am not interested in playing those rhetorical games.
In the US, it is a "lesser of two evils" choice. All the left wing nut jobs voted for Hillary for the same reason.


Its not a rhetorical question. Its a fact that neo Nazis love Trump. I'm just curious as to why you think that is.

I'm not calling you a Nazi, I want to be clear on that. But you are clearly conservative and may have some insight as to why your party and its leader are so appealing to white supremacists.

Thanks for not calling me a Nazi.

As I pointed out, there were two main choices on the ballot. They certainly weren't going to vote for Hillary were they, just as the loony left weren't going to vote for Trump? Actually, some of them probably voted third party, maybe the libertarian guy whose name I am too lazy to Google, so you were wrong when you said above 100% of them voted for Trump. ;) They are scum and I wish they were not affiliated in any way in the same breath as me. That's life, but I don't tar all Dems with the lunatic fringe brush, but it seems that many Democrats tend to call Republicans white supremacists or Nazis with great ease. It's a facile way to end a discussion: I don't have to debate you because you are evil.

And I am old enough to remember when the ACLU fought to let real-life swastika wearing Nazis march in Skokie. How times have changed. Now you disagree with someone and they're a Nazi. Progess.
Last edited by Bricktop on Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
apodino
Posts: 3293
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:38 pm

casinterest wrote:
Judges are there to Judge based on what the law says and implies in the current environment.

Current environment? The problem with what you wrote is that this implies that the constitution is a living document that changes not because of the amendment process but because the environment has changed. Do you even realize how dangerous this is? This line of thinking means that it is up to unelected judges to decide what the current environment is and change the law accordingly. The power to change the laws rests with congress, and the founding fathers clearly stated how the constitution is to be changed. It clearly does not give the Supreme court that power. However, using your logic, we can change what the constitution means because the environment dictates as such.

You are correct in that the Court is there to put a check on the executive branch and to prevent congress from passing laws that don't conform to constitutional standards. One example of such a case is Citizens United. It is true that our founding fathers never intended for money to dominate politics the way it has, However, the constitution is pretty clear as originally written that freedom of speech is guaranteed and that Citizens United wrongly supressed that right. No action ever undertaken to amend the consititution as it relates to this issue was ever undertaken. This the law is legally unconstitutional, which the Supreme Court rightly decided. Under your line of thinking, the current environment would dictate that because these interest groups have more money than most middle class people, they no longer have a first amendment right, and thus Citizens United should stand.

Did you know that if the Constitution specifically says a woman has a right to an abortion or marriage is defined as any two people regardless of gender, none of these issues would be in any danger whatsoever from being overturned?
 
trpmb6
Posts: 1031
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:39 pm

Didn't that crazy guy Duke endorse HRC?
 
apodino
Posts: 3293
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:39 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Judges are there to Judge based on what the law says and implies in the current environment.

That's what you think. You are not alone.

Other people think that judges should only judge based on what the law says and not what it merely "implies in the current environment." Those people believe that, when times have changed, Congress is free to pass laws that reflect those changes.

casinterest wrote:
The absence of a law is not a reason to deny justice based on existing precident.

This muddles some terms and is very hard to respond to. If there is "existing precident [sic]" then there is not an absence of law. You appear to be confused as to the difference between case law and statute.

Should courts be deferential to precedent? Sure. Neither side has ever argued that concept.

Should courts essentially make up laws when there are none? That goes back to what I discussed, above.

But remember this. The left likes the idea of courts making up laws where they are none. And that is EXACTLY why the left is so scared of what is happening with the court. Instead of getting Amendments and laws passed, they relied solely on the courts to do the work. They now want to put that genie back in the bottle.

casinterest wrote:
The Supreme Court is there to put a check on the executive branch's execution of laws as it is to put a check on bad laws written by Congress. It''s called Checks and Balances.

Uh... okay. Nobody has argued against that concept.

Great post. You explain it better than I can.
 
2122M
Posts: 664
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:40 pm

Bricktop wrote:
2122M wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
It's a "When did you stop beating your wife?" question, and I am not interested in playing those rhetorical games.
In the US, it is a "lesser of two evils" choice. All the left wing nut jobs voted for Hillary for the same reason.


Its not a rhetorical question. Its a fact that neo Nazis love Trump. I'm just curious as to why you think that is.

I'm not calling you a Nazi, I want to be clear on that. But you are clearly conservative and may have some insight as to why your party and its leader are so appealing to white supremacists.

Thanks for not calling me a Nazi.

As I pointed out, there were two main choices on the ballot. They certainly weren't going to vote for Hillary were they, just as the loony left weren't going to vote for Trump? Actually, some of them probably voted third party, maybe the libertarian guy whose name I am too lazy to Google, so you were wrong when you said above 100% of them voted for Trump. ;) They are scum and I wish they were not affiliated in any way in the same breath as me. That's life, but I don't tar all Dems with the lunatic fringe brush, but it seems that many Democrats tend to call Republicans white supremacists or Nazis with great ease. It's a facile way to end a discussion: I don't have to debate you because you are evil.

And I am old enough to remember when the ACLU fought to left real-life swastika wearing Nazis march in Skokie. How times have changed. Now you disagree with someone and their a Nazi. Progess.


I can only half agree with that assessment. I'm sure neo Nazis viewed McCain and Romney as the lesser of two evils against Obama. Bush as the lesser of two evils against Gore and Kerry. But they have never vocally supported a politician until Trump. I don't really believe they see him as the lesser of two evils. I think they see him as a candidate that finally speaks to them.

For example:

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-ca ... azi-salute

I think there has been progress and I'm happy for that. I think Trump has stopped or even reversed that progress. And I think that makes him the greater of two evils by a long shot.
 
windy95
Posts: 2723
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:11 pm

Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:44 pm

apodino wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Judges are there to Judge based on what the law says and implies in the current environment.

Current environment? The problem with what you wrote is that this implies that the constitution is a living document that changes not because of the amendment process but because the environment has changed. Do you even realize how dangerous this is? This line of thinking means that it is up to unelected judges to decide what the current environment is and change the law accordingly. The power to change the laws rests with congress, and the founding fathers clearly stated how the constitution is to be changed. It clearly does not give the Supreme court that power. However, using your logic, we can change what the constitution means because the environment dictates as such.

You are correct in that the Court is there to put a check on the executive branch and to prevent congress from passing laws that don't conform to constitutional standards. One example of such a case is Citizens United. It is true that our founding fathers never intended for money to dominate politics the way it has, However, the constitution is pretty clear as originally written that freedom of speech is guaranteed and that Citizens United wrongly supressed that right. No action ever undertaken to amend the consititution as it relates to this issue was ever undertaken. This the law is legally unconstitutional, which the Supreme Court rightly decided. Under your line of thinking, the current environment would dictate that because these interest groups have more money than most middle class people, they no longer have a first amendment right, and thus Citizens United should stand.

Did you know that if the Constitution specifically says a woman has a right to an abortion or marriage is defined as any two people regardless of gender, none of these issues would be in any danger whatsoever from being overturned?


Bingo...I also interpreted his comment on "current environment" as the living document argument. The courts are there to rule on the law as it was written. Some people want to skip the amendment process and go right to judicial activism when it comes to the constitution. SCOTUS does not make policy or laws.
non nobis Domine non nobis sed nomini tuo da gloriam

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