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trpmb6
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Man fined for having a bag of trash in his van

Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:15 pm

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/0 ... ckets-van/

I feel like there might be more to this. But given the article this is just ridiculous. Man can't keep a bag in his van to keep his crew from littering?!?!

Someone from the UK know more information to dissuade this insanity?
 
TSS
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Re: Man fined for having a bag of trash in his van

Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:20 pm

It sounds like an overly bureaucratic worker from Waltham Forest Council got to enjoy his "I'm Caesar for a day!" moment. I wonder if Mr. Gosling could appeal the fine based on the fact that the bag was still open and therefore the bag was not being "transported" because it was still actively being filled?

I do the exact same thing in my car, I keep a Piggly Wiggly bag hanging from the passenger seat headrest to accept gum wrappers, plastic drink bottles, etc., and when it gets full I throw it out. I wonder if Mr. Gosling would have been fined had the bag in question been an old shopping bag from Tesco or a large takeaway bag from Nando's instead of a (one assumes "official") plastic commercial waste bag?
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cranberrysaus
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Re: Man fined for having a bag of trash in his van

Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:28 pm

Must've forgot to renew his trash bag license.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Man fined for having a bag of trash in his van

Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:45 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/02/roofer-fined-300-carrying-sandwich-wrappers-crisp-packets-van/

Well that's about the dumbest thing I've read in a while. Complete lack of any real sense, common or otherwise. It's stupid.

Tugg
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flipdewaf
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Re: Man fined for having a bag of trash in his van

Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:59 pm

The issue is that it is classed as commercial waste and why should one business be allowed to treat commercial waste whereas another (the one I work for) not be allowed to.

Fred


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Tugger
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Re: Man fined for having a bag of trash in his van

Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:04 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
The issue is that it is classed as commercial waste and why should one business be allowed to treat commercial waste whereas another (the one I work for) not be allowed to.

Fred

See, that sounds very bureaucratic. Why shouldn't any business be allowed to bag up and remove the bits of trash they find or create? I get it if your business is hauling trash as a commercial enterprise, but most any "commercial" business will create trash of some type during their day. You need to be able to take care of it without buying a license or whatever.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
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casinterest
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Re: Man fined for having a bag of trash in his van

Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:49 pm

Not really enough details to go by.

Would he have been fined if it had been a black glad bag instead of a "commerical bag"

Was it his crew trash or trash from a customer?

Does Britain have custodial services that follow behind the commercial workers and pick up trash?
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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moo
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Re: Man fined for having a bag of trash in his van

Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:28 am

Tugger wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
The issue is that it is classed as commercial waste and why should one business be allowed to treat commercial waste whereas another (the one I work for) not be allowed to.

Fred

See, that sounds very bureaucratic. Why shouldn't any business be allowed to bag up and remove the bits of trash they find or create? I get it if your business is hauling trash as a commercial enterprise, but most any "commercial" business will create trash of some type during their day. You need to be able to take care of it without buying a license or whatever.

Tugg


Commercial waste is accepted at dumps and waste disposal sites at lower rates than domestic waste - hence the issue with putting domestic waste in a commercial waste bag and the fine.

Completely appropriate, imho.
 
BlueberryWheats
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Re: Man fined for having a bag of trash in his van

Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:42 am

The article starts with "A white van man...".

I feel I should point out to those not familiar with British culture that they are referring to the colour of his van, not him. White van men are a social occurrence here, usually known for working in the trades such as plumbing, roofing, building etc and are stereotypically loutish (not neccessarily true, it's just the stereotype.)
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DL717
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Re: Man fined for having a bag of trash in his van

Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:29 pm

Funny. It only took one pandemic for those who argue endlessly about natural selection to stop believing in natural selection.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Man fined for having a bag of trash in his van

Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:15 pm

moo wrote:
Commercial waste is accepted at dumps and waste disposal sites at lower rates than domestic waste - hence the issue with putting domestic waste in a commercial waste bag and the fine.

Wouldn't you need a license to get the lower rate or to even get a dump to accept a "commercial waste bag"? I can't imagine that wouldn't be the case automatically.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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moo
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Re: Man fined for having a bag of trash in his van

Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:14 pm

Tugger wrote:
moo wrote:
Commercial waste is accepted at dumps and waste disposal sites at lower rates than domestic waste - hence the issue with putting domestic waste in a commercial waste bag and the fine.

Wouldn't you need a license to get the lower rate or to even get a dump to accept a "commercial waste bag"? I can't imagine that wouldn't be the case automatically.

Tugg


In every one I've been to, you just turn up in your commercial vehicle and that's enough to be charged differently.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Man fined for having a bag of trash in his van

Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:32 pm

moo wrote:
Tugger wrote:
moo wrote:
Commercial waste is accepted at dumps and waste disposal sites at lower rates than domestic waste - hence the issue with putting domestic waste in a commercial waste bag and the fine.

Wouldn't you need a license to get the lower rate or to even get a dump to accept a "commercial waste bag"? I can't imagine that wouldn't be the case automatically.

Tugg


In every one I've been to, you just turn up in your commercial vehicle and that's enough to be charged differently.

Hmmm... seems like an opportunity to create a self-enforcing situation and solve a problem and reduce the cost of needing to separately police the license with searches like this.

To me the weird thing is, why not just always collect trash in a normal bag and then transfer it to a commercial bag when needed. Could take the whole regular bag and put it in a commercial one.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Man fined for having a bag of trash in his van

Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:02 pm

Didn't have his trash license on him, (Ok, I wrote that section, went back to the article to read it through, and realize that my joke became reality).

I understand the US is in no shape to criticize anyone right now with our current president but man, get your sh*t together Great Britain, not everything in life needs a license. If you can't survive without fining a man 300 pounds for having trash in his vehicle I hope you get invaded/taken over.
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moo
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Re: Man fined for having a bag of trash in his van

Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:41 am

Tugger wrote:
moo wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Wouldn't you need a license to get the lower rate or to even get a dump to accept a "commercial waste bag"? I can't imagine that wouldn't be the case automatically.

Tugg


In every one I've been to, you just turn up in your commercial vehicle and that's enough to be charged differently.

Hmmm... seems like an opportunity to create a self-enforcing situation and solve a problem and reduce the cost of needing to separately police the license with searches like this.


Its policed both ways - its not as if this person was stopped by a dedicated rubbish enforcement officer - these council enforcement officers mentioned in the story cover a massive spectrum of things, he just happened to fall under the aegis of one particular infringement they are authorised to cover. They didn't specifically stop him to check if he was carrying unauthorised domestic rubbish in a commercial rubbish bag...

These checks are also intended to catch trades workers who are likely to be fly tipping, amongst other things.

To me the weird thing is, why not just always collect trash in a normal bag and then transfer it to a commercial bag when needed. Could take the whole regular bag and put it in a commercial one.

Tugg


That would still be illegal...
 
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moo
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Re: Man fined for having a bag of trash in his van

Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:44 am

Super80Fan wrote:
Didn't have his trash license on him, (Ok, I wrote that section, went back to the article to read it through, and realize that my joke became reality).

I understand the US is in no shape to criticize anyone right now with our current president but man, get your sh*t together Great Britain, not everything in life needs a license. If you can't survive without fining a man 300 pounds for having trash in his vehicle I hope you get invaded/taken over.


Wow, can you get more over the top?

We have an issue in the UK at the moment where a lot of trades workers simply won't pay for waste disposal, and instead dump it at the side of the road in a country lane. So if you don't have a licence to transport waste when you should have one, what exactly is the story there...?
 
BlueberryWheats
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Re: Man fined for having a bag of trash in his van

Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:28 am

Super80Fan wrote:
get your sh*t together Great Britain


*United Kingdom
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Super80Fan
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Re: Man fined for having a bag of trash in his van

Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:58 am

moo wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
Didn't have his trash license on him, (Ok, I wrote that section, went back to the article to read it through, and realize that my joke became reality).

I understand the US is in no shape to criticize anyone right now with our current president but man, get your sh*t together Great Britain, not everything in life needs a license. If you can't survive without fining a man 300 pounds for having trash in his vehicle I hope you get invaded/taken over.


Wow, can you get more over the top?

We have an issue in the UK at the moment where a lot of trades workers simply won't pay for waste disposal, and instead dump it at the side of the road in a country lane. So if you don't have a licence to transport waste when you should have one, what exactly is the story there...?


The story is you shouldn't need a license unless you are starting up a trash collection company? I thought it was normal to carry trash in your car and either:

A. Bring it to the dump/landfill
B. Dump it in a trashcan
C. Leave it in your car (might smell/clutter but it's your personal property?)
RIP McDonnell Douglas
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moo
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Re: Man fined for having a bag of trash in his van

Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:17 am

Super80Fan wrote:
moo wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
Didn't have his trash license on him, (Ok, I wrote that section, went back to the article to read it through, and realize that my joke became reality).

I understand the US is in no shape to criticize anyone right now with our current president but man, get your sh*t together Great Britain, not everything in life needs a license. If you can't survive without fining a man 300 pounds for having trash in his vehicle I hope you get invaded/taken over.


Wow, can you get more over the top?

We have an issue in the UK at the moment where a lot of trades workers simply won't pay for waste disposal, and instead dump it at the side of the road in a country lane. So if you don't have a licence to transport waste when you should have one, what exactly is the story there...?


The story is you shouldn't need a license unless you are starting up a trash collection company? I thought it was normal to carry trash in your car and either:

A. Bring it to the dump/landfill
B. Dump it in a trashcan
C. Leave it in your car (might smell/clutter but it's your personal property?)


You seem to be deliberately misconstruing the issue.

You can do all those things. In a private vehicle.

If you want to do those things in a commercial vehicle, you need a licence. For the reasons I give a couple of posts ago. Nuff said really.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Man fined for having a bag of trash in his van

Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:33 am

moo wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
moo wrote:

Wow, can you get more over the top?

We have an issue in the UK at the moment where a lot of trades workers simply won't pay for waste disposal, and instead dump it at the side of the road in a country lane. So if you don't have a licence to transport waste when you should have one, what exactly is the story there...?


The story is you shouldn't need a license unless you are starting up a trash collection company? I thought it was normal to carry trash in your car and either:

A. Bring it to the dump/landfill
B. Dump it in a trashcan
C. Leave it in your car (might smell/clutter but it's your personal property?)


You seem to be deliberately misconstruing the issue.

You can do all those things. In a private vehicle.

If you want to do those things in a commercial vehicle, you need a licence. For the reasons I give a couple of posts ago. Nuff said really.


So what you're saying is, I own a business, and with my business I own a truck. In that truck I have a trash bag full of discarded items I have eaten on my lunch break, such as chip bags, wrappers, and takeout containers. All of a sudden I need a license? Do I have that correct? And your taxes pay people to go after people like this?
RIP McDonnell Douglas
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moo
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Re: Man fined for having a bag of trash in his van

Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:43 am

Super80Fan wrote:
moo wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:

The story is you shouldn't need a license unless you are starting up a trash collection company? I thought it was normal to carry trash in your car and either:

A. Bring it to the dump/landfill
B. Dump it in a trashcan
C. Leave it in your car (might smell/clutter but it's your personal property?)


You seem to be deliberately misconstruing the issue.

You can do all those things. In a private vehicle.

If you want to do those things in a commercial vehicle, you need a licence. For the reasons I give a couple of posts ago. Nuff said really.


So what you're saying is, I own a business, and with my business I own a truck. In that truck I have a trash bag full of discarded items I have eaten on my lunch break, such as chip bags, wrappers, and takeout containers. All of a sudden I need a license? Do I have that correct? And your taxes pay people to go after people like this?


*sigh*

If you have a small amount of waste in a domestic waste bag, you almost certainly wouldn't be fined.

If you have that waste in anything like a commercial waste bag, or in bulk, or anything that looks suspiciously like you are moving it in bulk, then yes you need a licence.

And yes, we pay people to police this, and yes it's a good thing - we have a history here in the UK of trades workmen deciding not to pay for disposal of waste from their trade jobs and instead driving to a quiet country lane and dumping it by the side of the road, leaving someone else to pick up the cost.

So either we issue licenses and fines and pay people to police these things or we *still* pay when the same council has to collect and dispose of the fly tipped rubbish.

And I fully expect you to not understand the point of any of this, since you seem to be striving to that end anyway.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Man fined for having a bag of trash in his van

Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:37 am

As a roofer he has to be transporting trash from his work sites so how come he doesn't have a license if that's required ?

"White vans" dumping trash everywhere are very common here in France too, in fact you can see the result on the A1 highway from CDG to Paris (I just did the drive yesterday).

Also here a professional disposing of trash the legal way will not pay less but more. In my city I can go to the local recycling site and it's free for residents, but not for professionals.
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moo
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Re: Man fined for having a bag of trash in his van

Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:24 am

Aesma wrote:
As a roofer he has to be transporting trash from his work sites so how come he doesn't have a license if that's required ?


Thats the $64,000 question that the council workers were probably wondering as well....

Although not all professionals will remove waste from jobs, or they will quote separately and either buy a one time licence or contract it out to another firm.

Also here a professional disposing of trash the legal way will not pay less but more. In my city I can go to the local recycling site and it's free for residents, but not for professionals.


In many parts of the UK, domestic users typically get a limited amount of waste they can dispose at council sites for free per week or month, and then have to pay (vehicle registrations can be tracked). Commercial users pay for all visits, but their rates are lower than domestic users precisely due to the licences they are issued.
 
Airstud
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Re: Man fined for having a bag of trash in his van

Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:36 am

I think the guy should be fined for having dorky shorts on.
Pancakes are delicious.
 
trident3
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Re: Man fined for having a bag of trash in his van

Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:11 am

As a roofer he has to be transporting trash from his work sites so how come he doesn't have a license if that's required ?
Not necessarily. I've employed tradesman who have made it clear to me that as they do not have a commercial waste licence it will be my responsibility to dispose of the waste. That leaves me with three options:
1; employ a tradesman who does have a licence
2: employ a licenced waste contractor to take it away
3: bag it up, chuck it in the back of the car, take it to the tip and dispose of it as domestic waste (perfectly legal)
I will do 2 or 3 depending on how much waste there is and what it consists of.
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Aesma
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Re: Man fined for having a bag of trash in his van

Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:42 am

Yeah but then why did he have the kind of bags you use when you do have a license ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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moo
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Re: Man fined for having a bag of trash in his van

Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:58 am

Aesma wrote:
Yeah but then why did he have the kind of bags you use when you do have a license ?


Because they don't require a license to buy - it's just a heavy duty waste bag, purchaseable in any DIY store around here.

There isn't any actual difference between commercial bags and non-commercial heavy duty waste bags, but domestic waste bags are lightweight and not at all confusable with a commercial use.
 
Jetty
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Re: Man fined for having a bag of trash in his van

Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:41 am

moo wrote:
If you have that waste in anything like a commercial waste bag, or in bulk, or anything that looks suspiciously like you are moving it in bulk, then yes you need a licence.

And yes, we pay people to police this, and yes it's a good thing - we have a history here in the UK of trades workmen deciding not to pay for disposal of waste from their trade jobs and instead driving to a quiet country lane and dumping it by the side of the road, leaving someone else to pick up the cost.

So either we issue licenses and fines and pay people to police these things or we *still* pay when the same council has to collect and dispose of the fly tipped rubbish.

If you don't want waste turning up at quiet country lanes then why have people pay for the disposal of waste and/or make a huge bureaucratic hassle about transporting waste? :?
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Man fined for having a bag of trash in his van

Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:19 am

Tugger wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/02/roofer-fined-300-carrying-sandwich-wrappers-crisp-packets-van/

Well that's about the dumbest thing I've read in a while. Complete lack of any real sense, common or otherwise. It's stupid.

Tugg


I can go one better, a friend of a friend was on holiday in Sweden, he had a blowout so went into the nearest Volvo dealer for a new tyre, they suggested he raplace all 4 since they were close to the limit and as he was also only 500km off the next service they could do it at the same time as replacing the tyres, he said ok. On his return to Norway he was unlucky and was stopped at the border, the Customs official noted the new tyres, and after a search of the car found the new entry in the log book for the service and the receipt for the tyres. Getting a Norwegian registered car srviced outside of Norway is apparently illegal, he was fined 6000nok plus had to pay the VAT on the service and 3 of the 4 new tyres.
 
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moo
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Re: Man fined for having a bag of trash in his van

Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:31 am

Jetty wrote:
moo wrote:
If you have that waste in anything like a commercial waste bag, or in bulk, or anything that looks suspiciously like you are moving it in bulk, then yes you need a licence.

And yes, we pay people to police this, and yes it's a good thing - we have a history here in the UK of trades workmen deciding not to pay for disposal of waste from their trade jobs and instead driving to a quiet country lane and dumping it by the side of the road, leaving someone else to pick up the cost.

So either we issue licenses and fines and pay people to police these things or we *still* pay when the same council has to collect and dispose of the fly tipped rubbish.

If you don't want waste turning up at quiet country lanes then why have people pay for the disposal of waste and/or make a huge bureaucratic hassle about transporting waste? :?


Because we can't afford unlimited waste disposal in this day and age...? You know, the unpleasant fact that previous generations have screwed the planet up for us to the point where we can no longer be care free and simply shovel our crap into holes in the ground at the rate we used to...?

And the "bureaucratic hassle" is intended to help prevent fly tipping, so let's have lots more of that then please. Screw people like this guy bitching and moaning about being caught without a licence, it's doing its job.

Or are you saying that the right approach really is to say "sod it" and open the flood gates to as much waste as people want to get rid of, screw the social and environmental cost etc etc? Simply because some antisocial idiots think it's fine to dump their waste anywhere they can so they don't have to bear the burden of proper disposal?

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