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Super80Fan
Posts: 1622
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Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:48 am

WarRI1 wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:

She is a Republican who has the intelligence to know who is screwing us over, I find that rarely on here or anywhere else. I might ask what is fine? Are wages going up, are the tax cuts helping the regular workers? They sure are for the corporations who are the ones who sent the jobs overseas and are not giving out living wages, now that the economy is doing fine as you state. You sound like a apologist for the Buffoon and his band of thieves and liars.


This has been happening under both GOP and Democratic presidents since the 1970's, your anger is pointed in the wrong direction.


My anger and hers is pointed at the right people, see above, I neither blamed Democrats or Republicans, I blame them both along with the Corporations, Banks and Wall Street. Now show me who is to blame in your fantasy world. I love these statements without any substance.


No, your post is solely blaming Republicans for high profits and low wages. Show me the proof that this only happens under GOP presidents. It must be tiring moving goal posts so often.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
windy95
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Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:53 pm

What damage? Now we have a new trade agreement with Mexico and a booming economy and all we here from the left is more whining. I cant handle all of this #Winning
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:14 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:

This has been happening under both GOP and Democratic presidents since the 1970's, your anger is pointed in the wrong direction.


My anger and hers is pointed at the right people, see above, I neither blamed Democrats or Republicans, I blame them both along with the Corporations, Banks and Wall Street. Now show me who is to blame in your fantasy world. I love these statements without any substance.


No, your post is solely blaming Republicans for high profits and low wages. Show me the proof that this only happens under GOP presidents. It must be tiring moving goal posts so often.


So at least you acknowledge there is a problem?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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c933103
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Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:41 pm

WarRI1 wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:

She is a Republican who has the intelligence to know who is screwing us over, I find that rarely on here or anywhere else. I might ask what is fine? Are wages going up, are the tax cuts helping the regular workers? They sure are for the corporations who are the ones who sent the jobs overseas and are not giving out living wages, now that the economy is doing fine as you state. You sound like a apologist for the Buffoon and his band of thieves and liars.


This has been happening under both GOP and Democratic presidents since the 1970's, your anger is pointed in the wrong direction.


My anger and hers is pointed at the right people, see above, I neither blamed Democrats or Republicans, I blame them both along with the Corporations, Banks and Wall Street. Now show me who is to blame in your fantasy world. I love these statements without any substance.

Corporations, Banks and Wall Street work strictly according to principle of Capitalism. They aren't changing unless capitalism is abandoned. Now, the difference is how the government regulate and handle those corporates. It is rather simple-minded if one think giving them more money could result in more money funneled to their employees. Policymakers should know this before they make policies, instead of pretending corporates would betray the very first principal that they operate based on, and then present a face of disappointment when they aren't following the fantasy.
Actually, a few years ago in Japan, Abenomics already served as an example telling people round the world that corporate tax cut won't result in salary increase. Not sure why people would expect something different when the same policy is applied in America.
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate.
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Tugger
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Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:57 pm

windy95 wrote:
What damage? Now we have a new trade agreement with Mexico and a booming economy and all we here from the left is more whining. I cant handle all of this #Winning

It appears you are not too up on things or are you just easily convinced of stuff? Or is it whining: We are too winning!!!!

The "Mexico trade thing" is another "North Korea is de-nuclearizing!" thing. Its not real, its Trump blowing smoke up his favorite supporters you know what. It is not a formal trade deal between the US and Mexico. It is just an agreement on how to resolve key issues we have regarding trade. This is actually part of the NAFTA talks and is officially described as "a preliminary agreement in principle ... to update the 24-year-old NAFTA with modern provisions representing a 21st century."

Tugg
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sccutler
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Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:32 pm

The problem, simply stated, is that congress continues to spend more money than it has, and there is no way we can tax our way out of the issue.

Both political parties are complicit in this scam, and the productive class (an ever-shrinking proportion of the country) cannot sustain it. Cannot.

Every time one of us is riled-up and persuaded to blame the "others," we are being played to the effective purpose of the political class. They may care (on some level) about the people, but on a realistic level, their principal concern is the preservation of their comfortable life of utterly unproductive leisure.
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Super80Fan
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Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:39 am

Dutchy wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:

My anger and hers is pointed at the right people, see above, I neither blamed Democrats or Republicans, I blame them both along with the Corporations, Banks and Wall Street. Now show me who is to blame in your fantasy world. I love these statements without any substance.


No, your post is solely blaming Republicans for high profits and low wages. Show me the proof that this only happens under GOP presidents. It must be tiring moving goal posts so often.


So at least you acknowledge there is a problem?


Oh of course there is a problem, and I hope it's fixed sooner than later, and I will say the GOP holds the most fault, but it isn't solely on them either.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
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seb146
Posts: 22553
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Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:05 am

Super80Fan wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:

No, your post is solely blaming Republicans for high profits and low wages. Show me the proof that this only happens under GOP presidents. It must be tiring moving goal posts so often.


So at least you acknowledge there is a problem?


Oh of course there is a problem, and I hope it's fixed sooner than later, and I will say the GOP holds the most fault, but it isn't solely on them either.


The GOP controls all branches of government. Where is our affordable health care? Where are our good paying jobs? Where is our affordable education? Where are the jobs? Where is the lowering debt and deficits? They have the chance to do all that and more. So? Before you launch into "both sides do it" yet again, let me remind you that it was Democratic leadership that led the country out of the REPUBLICAN Great Recession and Democratic leadership who gave us the basis for affordable health care and affordable education.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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777222LR
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Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:05 am

I just ran past a former sales manager's status where she was praising the death of John McCain and said two ex-presidents to follow. I responded: "While I appreciate knowing you, this is a horrible post. A man died, and you are praising his death, followed by not be able to wait until two ex-presidents die?" I got a pretty hateful response from one of her friends about how us libtards are all the same and how we are okay with the media bashing Trump while the economy is amazing, followed by her response in which she said she wishes death to anyone who is a human trafficker or a pedophile. Followed by things I need to google and look up on youtube. She let me know that one day I would wake up and see the light. - Can we clean this up? Further research is that her and her friend follow QAnon...I blocked him, but I'm unsure whether I block her or not. Conspiracy theorists are pretty nuts from what I can see.
 
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seb146
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Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:13 am

The economy was anemic and growing horribly under Obama. In 2017, when the economy was growing at the same rate or less, guess who gets praise?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Ken777
Posts: 10096
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Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:57 am

sccutler wrote:
The problem, simply stated, is that congress continues to spend more money than it has, and there is no way we can tax our way out of the issue.


The issue isn't taxing our way out of our mess - it is acts like a trillion and a half dollar tax cut that provides way too little in the promises expected to be filled. The Trump Money Hand Out has basically been for the BBC (Billionaires Boys Club) with a little bit for the middle class and jack shit for the poor. With the poor being at the bottom of the economic pyramid a failure to increase their lot in life with this trillion and a half dollar hand out is a major moral failure. A clear demonstration, IMO, that Trump puts cash over country without hesitation. The guy has no understanding of what people in poverty face - and that will present this country with a price to pay.

In terms of spending at the Internal and Defense levels we have some repairing of friendships and trusts with out friends. Just today Macron of France said that France and Europe can no longer entrust the US. ( https://www.politico.eu/article/europe- ... -security/ ). The cost for reversing Trump is going to grow as long as Trump is in the Oval Office.
 
anrec80
Posts: 2759
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Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:14 am

Speaking of corporate tax break from 35 to 20%, IMHO it's past due, and the right thing. The whole world, including Western Europe, has corporate tax rates in 15-25% range. And - if you have a basic understanding of how does corporate taxation works, it's easy to see that this move simply brings total tax rates on corporate income in line with more wide-spread individual income tax rates.

Let's look at a plain USA C-corporation that has earned 100K in a year in profit. In order for the owner to get access to his earnings, he would need to a) pay 35K corporate tax and then b) write the remaining 65K as a qualified dividends distribution, being taxed at generally 15% (dividend rates are 0-22%). This is over taxation for such owner, isn't it? he generally is better off writing these $100K as a W2 to himself. Yes, dividends are after-tax money already. And if we factor in state taxes, we do have double and triple taxation here, since states tend to tax both corporate income and dividends.

Now, with corporate portion reduction, we have total tax payable in 30+%, which is close to individual tax rates. What's unfair here? Another way to fix this unfairness would be to abolish dividend taxation - since dividends are already after tax money.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:41 am

anrec80 wrote:
The whole world, including Western Europe, has corporate tax rates in 15-25% range.


Five countries in western Europe have corporate tax rates from 27.9 to 36.6%. And of course a 17 to 27% VAT for the EU ones. According to the tax foundation the average statutory corporate tax rate, weightend by GDP share, is 29.41%, so quite obviously the whole world doesn´t have 15 to 25% corporate taxe rates.

Tax wise the US isn´t all that different from other G7 nations: https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-t ... -countries

Total tax in terms of share of GDP for many Western European countries is often 20% higher than in the US (26% vs. e.g. Germany´s 44% or Denmarks 51%). Which is interesting because that was with the 35% corporate tax rate.
The cash-flow problem in the US is very obviously caused on the revenue side.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 11835
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Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:29 am

Super80Fan wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:

No, your post is solely blaming Republicans for high profits and low wages. Show me the proof that this only happens under GOP presidents. It must be tiring moving goal posts so often.


So at least you acknowledge there is a problem?


Oh of course there is a problem, and I hope it's fixed sooner than later, and I will say the GOP holds the most fault, but it isn't solely on them either.


Let's focus on solving the problem and not whom is at fault. So how can we solve this problem?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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DL717
Posts: 2153
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 10:53 pm

Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:05 pm

WarRI1 wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:

She is a Republican who has the intelligence to know who is screwing us over, I find that rarely on here or anywhere else. I might ask what is fine? Are wages going up, are the tax cuts helping the regular workers? They sure are for the corporations who are the ones who sent the jobs overseas and are not giving out living wages, now that the economy is doing fine as you state. You sound like a apologist for the Buffoon and his band of thieves and liars.


This has been happening under both GOP and Democratic presidents since the 1970's, your anger is pointed in the wrong direction.


My anger and hers is pointed at the right people, see above, I neither blamed Democrats or Republicans, I blame them both along with the Corporations, Banks and Wall Street. Now show me who is to blame in your fantasy world. I love these statements without any substance.


You’re always blaming the corporations though, for literally everything wrong in the world. While taping away on your PC or tablet made by underpaid foreigners who work for said corporations, funded by banks, who sell shares on Wall Street.
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tommy1808
Posts: 13296
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:44 pm

DL717 wrote:
While taping away on your PC or tablet made by underpaid foreigners who work for said corporations,


Maybe he has a Fujitsu made in Germany, with workers having a higher pay than even in comparable US jobs? Or one made by Samsung in South Korea with a ~25 USD/hour average manufacturing pay for that country?.

"Underpaid foreigners" mostly means "company not willing to invest money in efficient production".

My, made in SK, Samsung Note 8 doesn´t seem more expensive than a China made iPhone, despite the countries 5 USD/hr average manufacturing pay.

Banks and Stock Markets are however useful, as long as they stick to their business and not branch out into Casino gambling.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
sccutler
Posts: 5839
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 12:16 pm

Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:57 pm

The less tax extracted (at all levels), the better-off we will all be. If you focus on tax "breaks" for corporate ratepayers, you're missing the big picture.

We tax too much. Way too much.

And, our tax code is laden with complexity and agenda-driven favors. It is an unsavory and ethically-corrupt system.

Thelamentation above about poverty misses the point, because taking money from the productive economy and diverting it to the unproductive, government sector, will inevitably increase poverty. Inevitably.

Protect civil and human rights. Defend the borders. Enforce the rule of law. And stand back and watch success happen.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13296
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Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:15 pm

sccutler wrote:
We tax too much. Way too much.


You don´t tax nearly as much as you should. You pretty much only have barebone government services and still an enormous deficit. There are few countries that have working governments and an economy worth mentioning that have lower taxes than the US, most have much much higher taxes.

The government spends all the money it gets quite quick. An Economy doesn´t life on how much money there is, but on how fast it cycles through the economy.

And, our tax code is laden with complexity and agenda-driven favors. It is an unsavory and ethically-corrupt system.


That however is true.

Thelamentation above about poverty misses the point, because taking money from the productive economy and diverting it to the unproductive, government sector, will inevitably increase poverty. Inevitably.


Pretty much every single industrialized country proves the opposite. The lower income 75-90% of the US population has fared far, far worse than in other places.
Government can in deed operate just as efficient as the private sector, you just have to set it up for efficiency.

Protect civil and human rights. Defend the borders. Enforce the rule of law. And stand back and watch success happen.


If you want to protect human rights, you have to spend more money on social security and government services. The US has already signed and ratified declarations of human rights that go way beyond what US citizens currently have.

There will never ever, ever be any success in any form or shape as long candidates for Congress run on "for every Tax$ we send to DC we get one + x USD back".
Fiscal responsibility gets you un-elected very fast. That is why it only is a talking point.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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DL717
Posts: 2153
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Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:56 pm

NIKV69 wrote:

What damage exactly?


The damage done to the PC crowd who never want to be offended by anything living inside the safe space bubble. Oh the horror!
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Dutchy
Posts: 11835
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:11 pm

sccutler wrote:
The less tax extracted (at all levels), the better-off we will all be. If you focus on tax "breaks" for corporate ratepayers, you're missing the big picture.

We tax too much. Way too much.

And, our tax code is laden with complexity and agenda-driven favors. It is an unsavory and ethically-corrupt system.

Thelamentation above about poverty misses the point, because taking money from the productive economy and diverting it to the unproductive, government sector, will inevitably increase poverty. Inevitably.

Protect civil and human rights. Defend the borders. Enforce the rule of law. And stand back and watch success happen.


Is an opinion not fact.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
WIederling
Posts: 9312
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:07 pm

sccutler wrote:
Thelamentation above about poverty misses the point, because taking money from the productive economy and diverting it to the unproductive, government sector, will inevitably increase poverty.



Good, efficient government should increase productivity.
you just don't have efficient ( in a societal context ) government.

What you have is a subverted system funneling money to well lobbied groups.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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seb146
Posts: 22553
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:14 pm

DL717 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

What damage exactly?


The damage done to the PC crowd who never want to be offended by anything living inside the safe space bubble. Oh the horror!


People who are tired of having one group telling everyone else what to do, how to live, where to be. If you step outside the right wing echo chamber, you would understand that "PC" tries to include ALL Americans.

Yes, it does go too far at times, but, at the core, being "PC" means including all. It sounds like you don't want that. That you do not want others included. African-Americans, women, LGBTQ+, Natives, etc. I just want clarification. That's all.
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DL717
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Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:22 pm

seb146 wrote:

People who are tired of having one group telling everyone else what to do, how to live, where to be.


You mean things like... I don't know... Coca Cola intake, use of plastic bags or straws?
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bagoldex
Posts: 1027
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:33 pm

Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:11 pm

DL717 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

People who are tired of having one group telling everyone else what to do, how to live, where to be.


You mean things like... I don't know... Coca Cola intake, use of plastic bags or straws?


Because those things are exactly like marriage equality and access to reproductive health services.
 
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seb146
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Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:18 am

DL717 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

People who are tired of having one group telling everyone else what to do, how to live, where to be.


You mean things like... I don't know... Coca Cola intake, use of plastic bags or straws?


How are those the same as treating others like second class citizens? What does one have to do with the other?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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WarRI1
Posts: 14147
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Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:28 am

DL717 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:

This has been happening under both GOP and Democratic presidents since the 1970's, your anger is pointed in the wrong direction.


My anger and hers is pointed at the right people, see above, I neither blamed Democrats or Republicans, I blame them both along with the Corporations, Banks and Wall Street. Now show me who is to blame in your fantasy world. I love these statements without any substance.


You’re always blaming the corporations though, for literally everything wrong in the world. While taping away on your PC or tablet made by underpaid foreigners who work for said corporations, funded by banks, who sell shares on Wall Street.



I am reading the history of the Browne/Brown family in R.I. starting in the 1600s, I am now on the chapter called the Haves and Have not's (sound familiar?) taking place in the 1800's. Before the Civil War. You would be amazed how little has changed since then, slavery, (owned type) to economic slavery, still in favor. child labor, mass production, ruined health of the workers, six day work weeks, no vacation, you name it. Sounds just like today, wealth accumulation and the impoverishment of the workers. The Corporations and the wealthy along with corruption of the government. Nothing really ever changes as far as corruption, greed and exploitation of workers goes.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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DL717
Posts: 2153
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 10:53 pm

Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:40 am

bagoldex wrote:
DL717 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

People who are tired of having one group telling everyone else what to do, how to live, where to be.


You mean things like... I don't know... Coca Cola intake, use of plastic bags or straws?


Because those things are exactly like marriage equality and access to reproductive health services.


You have your view about a group telling everyone what to do, how to live and where to be. I have my own and it’s different from yours. I don’t need a nanny state. Maybe you do, but it seems like a hell of a way to live.
Welcome to Nothingburgers. May I take your order?
 
Ken777
Posts: 10096
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:24 am

tommy1808 wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
The whole world, including Western Europe, has corporate tax rates in 15-25% range.


Five countries in western Europe have corporate tax rates from 27.9 to 36.6%. And of course a 17 to 27% VAT for the EU ones. According to the tax foundation the average statutory corporate tax rate, weightend by GDP share, is 29.41%, so quite obviously the whole world doesn´t have 15 to 25% corporate taxe rates.


best regards
Thomas



The tax rate in the US wasn't a major issue. Apple traditionally has an effective tax rate of around 25% and ATT reported an effective rate of 8% last year.

Inb terms of dividends I have long been a believer that the tax break should have been on the corporate. side - a deduction of dividends paid, and normal income rates for the share holders. That increases funds that could be paid out or provides companies with additional funding for R&D, maintenance etc.
 
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seb146
Posts: 22553
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Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:35 am

DL717 wrote:
bagoldex wrote:
DL717 wrote:

You mean things like... I don't know... Coca Cola intake, use of plastic bags or straws?


Because those things are exactly like marriage equality and access to reproductive health services.


You have your view about a group telling everyone what to do, how to live and where to be. I have my own and it’s different from yours. I don’t need a nanny state. Maybe you do, but it seems like a hell of a way to live.


Again, just to clarify: You want two classes of Americans: One who fits into a specific definition of American and another who has to live by the first class' rules? All men are created equal as long as they fit into a specific box? Just to clarify.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
WIederling
Posts: 9312
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:30 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
No, your post is solely blaming Republicans for high profits and low wages. Show me the proof that this only happens under GOP presidents. It must be tiring moving goal posts so often.


No goalposts to move actually.

The Obama presidency has shown that for certain ( non GOP ) presidents a lot happens against their own objectives.
What the US lacks is (the concept of) "loyal opposition". What the US has is "GOP : our way or no way".
Murphy is an optimist
 
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WarRI1
Posts: 14147
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:43 pm

WIederling wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
No, your post is solely blaming Republicans for high profits and low wages. Show me the proof that this only happens under GOP presidents. It must be tiring moving goal posts so often.


No goalposts to move actually.

The Obama presidency has shown that for certain ( non GOP ) presidents a lot happens against their own objectives.
What the US lacks is (the concept of) "loyal opposition". What the US has is "GOP : our way or no way".


Absolutely, I just love the absence of the printed word when you give them the truth about Wall Street, the banks and Corporations. I noticed not one word about the conditions of today mirroring the conditions of a century ago, no owned slaves of course, but trust me there would be if possible, of course they now have economic slaves which they love. The right wingers on here must all be wealthy corporation people to read what they say in defense of the New Robber Baron's. I guess some people just love to laud those who are screwing them. I do love that about them, the pretense, the BS, the fake posture that is so common on here. Laughable, not laudable. Anyone want to know the name of the Book I am reading about the History of the Brown Family?
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2858
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: Damage repair in the post Trump era

Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:44 am

Great article about how the domestic damage can be repaired while Trump is still in office:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/artic ... 37941.html

This article was not written by a partisan hack but by a respected Stanford Fellow.

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