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WarRI1
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Judge deals blow to Trumps effort to overhaul Bureaucracy.

Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:13 am

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/0 ... /23509428/

Absolutely wonderful news, he overstepped his bounds, no surprise there if you follow this Buffoon and his Minions efforts to tear apart anything they can. Good news for workers for sure.
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WarRI1
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Re: Judge deals blow to Trumps effort to overhaul Bureaucracy.

Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:22 am

WarRI1 wrote:
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/08/25/judge-deals-blow-to-trump-effort-to-overhaul-bureaucracy/23509428/

Absolutely wonderful news, he overstepped his bounds, no surprise there if you follow this Buffoon and his Minions efforts to tear apart anything they can. Good news for workers for sure.
See below, the judges words.


"The judge rightly found that the president is not above the law and cannot, through these blatantly anti-union and anti-worker executive orders, eviscerate employee rights and undermine the collective bargaining process established by Congress," Reardon said.

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DL717
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Re: Judge deals blow to Trumps effort to overhaul Bureaucracy.

Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:47 am

WarRI1 wrote:
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/08/25/judge-deals-blow-to-trump-effort-to-overhaul-bureaucracy/23509428/


Absolutely wonderful news, he overstepped his bounds, no surprise there if you follow this Buffoon and his Minions efforts to tear apart anything they can. Good news for workers for sure.


Government employees are servants of the people. They do not need unions to rape the taxpayers, politicians will do it for them. Most of them are grossly overpaid and should be embarrassed.
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WarRI1
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Re: Judge deals blow to Trumps effort to overhaul Bureaucracy.

Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:53 am

DL717 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/08/25/judge-deals-blow-to-trump-effort-to-overhaul-bureaucracy/23509428/


Absolutely wonderful news, he overstepped his bounds, no surprise there if you follow this Buffoon and his Minions efforts to tear apart anything they can. Good news for workers for sure.


Government employees are servants of the people. They do not need unions to rape the taxpayers, politicians will do it for them. Most of them are grossly overpaid and should be embarrassed.


But they have them to defend against such as what we have here. This is proof of the need in this legal decision as we can see. No different than any other worker, they have rights. Of course that is the problem of course, they have rights, which includes the right to contest unfair treatment from their employer.
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DL717
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Re: Judge deals blow to Trumps effort to overhaul Bureaucracy.

Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:56 am

WarRI1 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/08/25/judge-deals-blow-to-trump-effort-to-overhaul-bureaucracy/23509428/


Absolutely wonderful news, he overstepped his bounds, no surprise there if you follow this Buffoon and his Minions efforts to tear apart anything they can. Good news for workers for sure.


Government employees are servants of the people. They do not need unions to rape the taxpayers, politicians will do it for them. Most of them are grossly overpaid and should be embarrassed.


But they have them to defend against such as what we have here. This is proof of the need in this legal decision as we can see. No different than any other worker, they have rights. Of course that is the problem of course, they have rights, which includes the right to contest unfair treatment from their employer.


Can you honestly think of the last time a government employee was ever mistreated? Give me an effing break. Government employees do half the work of a civilian employee, make the same money and unless they are a total eff up have zero chance of ever being fired. They also have ridiculously generous benefits that have zero to do with any union.
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WarRI1
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Re: Judge deals blow to Trumps effort to overhaul Bureaucracy.

Sun Aug 26, 2018 3:03 am

DL717 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Government employees are servants of the people. They do not need unions to rape the taxpayers, politicians will do it for them. Most of them are grossly overpaid and should be embarrassed.


But they have them to defend against such as what we have here. This is proof of the need in this legal decision as we can see. No different than any other worker, they have rights. Of course that is the problem of course, they have rights, which includes the right to contest unfair treatment from their employer.


Can you honestly think of the last time a government employee was ever mistreated? Give me an effing break. Government employees do half the work of a civilian employee, make the same money and unless they are a total eff up have zero chance of ever being fired. They also have ridiculously generous benefits that have zero to do with any union.



Obviously we differ on employment rules, you just saw what the judge ruled which I of course understand and support. They have due process just as we do. The Orange Head and his ilk detest due process, hence the ruling against the Buffoon. I took as many benefits as I could get, and so would you. Go work for the Government, and then you would support the decision. Very simple, jealousy will get you nowhere, but it will piss you off.
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tommy1808
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Re: Judge deals blow to Trumps effort to overhaul Bureaucracy.

Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:03 am

DL717 wrote:
Can you honestly think of the last time a government employee was ever mistreated?


A few former FBI names come to mind....

WarRI1 wrote:
But they have them to defend against such as what we have here. This is proof of the need in this legal decision as we can see. No different than any other worker, they have rights.


Here we have two kinds of government workers:

Employees, that have the same rights and risks as any employee in the economy.
"Beamten", that give up rights (no unions, no strike, can be recalled out of retirement etc) in return for lifetime employ. Since they are very hard to get rid of, needs serious wrong doing, they are free to apply law as intended, without anyone able to tell them otherwise. Can't fire a cop to end or obstruct an investigation, can't fire a building expector because he is shouting down buildings of a big employer...

I think governments need both types.

Best regards
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blueflyer
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Re: Judge deals blow to Trumps effort to overhaul Bureaucracy.

Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:05 am

DL717 wrote:
Government employees are servants of the people. They do not need unions to rape the taxpayers, politicians will do it for them. Most of them are grossly overpaid and should be embarrassed.

Well, politicians rape taxpayers for their own benefits. Without unions, any benefit government employees would derive from the raping would be purely incidental.

I am curious by your contention that they are servants of the people. Are you saying that they should be so honored to serve the public that they ought to work for peanuts? Or am I misunderstanding it totally?

I'm sure some are overpaid, I wholeheartedly agree some should be terminated, (I can think of an entire Dept Of Labor division even). I can also think of many a job function where the government cannot compete with the private sector for the most talented candidates, however, and because the gap between private and public salaries is so large, the public is not served by the second-best candidates, but third and fourth. It is true that government employees get perks such as great health and retirement benefits, yet the skills gap still exists, so these benefits clearly do not outweigh the lower salaries.
 
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Re: Judge deals blow to Trumps effort to overhaul Bureaucracy.

Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:42 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
Can you honestly think of the last time a government employee was ever mistreated?


A few former FBI names come to mind....

WarRI1 wrote:
But they have them to defend against such as what we have here. This is proof of the need in this legal decision as we can see. No different than any other worker, they have rights.


Here we have two kinds of government workers:

Employees, that have the same rights and risks as any employee in the economy.
"Beamten", that give up rights (no unions, no strike, can be recalled out of retirement etc) in return for lifetime employ. Since they are very hard to get rid of, needs serious wrong doing, they are free to apply law as intended, without anyone able to tell them otherwise. Can't fire a cop to end or obstruct an investigation, can't fire a building expector because he is shouting down buildings of a big employer...

I think governments need both types.

Best regards
Thomas


Those former FBI chaps you mention colossally effed up. They still walked with a nice pension and benefits.
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DL717
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Re: Judge deals blow to Trumps effort to overhaul Bureaucracy.

Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:43 pm

blueflyer wrote:
DL717 wrote:
Government employees are servants of the people. They do not need unions to rape the taxpayers, politicians will do it for them. Most of them are grossly overpaid and should be embarrassed.

Well, politicians rape taxpayers for their own benefits. Without unions, any benefit government employees would derive from the raping would be purely incidental.

I am curious by your contention that they are servants of the people. Are you saying that they should be so honored to serve the public that they ought to work for peanuts? Or am I misunderstanding it totally?

I'm sure some are overpaid, I wholeheartedly agree some should be terminated, (I can think of an entire Dept Of Labor division even). I can also think of many a job function where the government cannot compete with the private sector for the most talented candidates, however, and because the gap between private and public salaries is so large, the public is not served by the second-best candidates, but third and fourth. It is true that government employees get perks such as great health and retirement benefits, yet the skills gap still exists, so these benefits clearly do not outweigh the lower salaries.


They are servants of the people, and they are paid more than enough. They don’t need to worry about being paid peanuts.
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seb146
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Re: Judge deals blow to Trumps effort to overhaul Bureaucracy.

Sun Aug 26, 2018 3:48 pm

DL717 wrote:
blueflyer wrote:
DL717 wrote:
Government employees are servants of the people. They do not need unions to rape the taxpayers, politicians will do it for them. Most of them are grossly overpaid and should be embarrassed.

Well, politicians rape taxpayers for their own benefits. Without unions, any benefit government employees would derive from the raping would be purely incidental.

I am curious by your contention that they are servants of the people. Are you saying that they should be so honored to serve the public that they ought to work for peanuts? Or am I misunderstanding it totally?

I'm sure some are overpaid, I wholeheartedly agree some should be terminated, (I can think of an entire Dept Of Labor division even). I can also think of many a job function where the government cannot compete with the private sector for the most talented candidates, however, and because the gap between private and public salaries is so large, the public is not served by the second-best candidates, but third and fourth. It is true that government employees get perks such as great health and retirement benefits, yet the skills gap still exists, so these benefits clearly do not outweigh the lower salaries.


They are servants of the people, and they are paid more than enough. They don’t need to worry about being paid peanuts.


DL, why don't you go work for a government agency for $7.50 an hour, no benefits and negotiate with the government to get higher pay and benefits. Let us know how that works out.

Also, signing all these executive orders just shows a man who wants to be king and bypass the rule of law. I seem to recall that being an issue for righties under a different president.
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DL717
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Re: Judge deals blow to Trumps effort to overhaul Bureaucracy.

Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:06 pm

seb146 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
blueflyer wrote:
Well, politicians rape taxpayers for their own benefits. Without unions, any benefit government employees would derive from the raping would be purely incidental.

I am curious by your contention that they are servants of the people. Are you saying that they should be so honored to serve the public that they ought to work for peanuts? Or am I misunderstanding it totally?

I'm sure some are overpaid, I wholeheartedly agree some should be terminated, (I can think of an entire Dept Of Labor division even). I can also think of many a job function where the government cannot compete with the private sector for the most talented candidates, however, and because the gap between private and public salaries is so large, the public is not served by the second-best candidates, but third and fourth. It is true that government employees get perks such as great health and retirement benefits, yet the skills gap still exists, so these benefits clearly do not outweigh the lower salaries.


They are servants of the people, and they are paid more than enough. They don’t need to worry about being paid peanuts.


DL, why don't you go work for a government agency for $7.50 an hour, no benefits and negotiate with the government to get higher pay and benefits. Let us know how that works out.

Also, signing all these executive orders just shows a man who wants to be king and bypass the rule of law. I seem to recall that being an issue for righties under a different president.


LOL. What government agency is that? No such agency.
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bagoldex
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Re: Judge deals blow to Trumps effort to overhaul Bureaucracy.

Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:11 pm

DL717 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
DL717 wrote:

They are servants of the people, and they are paid more than enough. They don’t need to worry about being paid peanuts.


DL, why don't you go work for a government agency for $7.50 an hour, no benefits and negotiate with the government to get higher pay and benefits. Let us know how that works out.

Also, signing all these executive orders just shows a man who wants to be king and bypass the rule of law. I seem to recall that being an issue for righties under a different president.


LOL. What government agency is that? No such agency.


Since you seem so knowledgeable on and convinced of the "excessive" compensation of government employees why not cite some examples?
 
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seb146
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Re: Judge deals blow to Trumps effort to overhaul Bureaucracy.

Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:08 am

DL717 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
DL717 wrote:

They are servants of the people, and they are paid more than enough. They don’t need to worry about being paid peanuts.


DL, why don't you go work for a government agency for $7.50 an hour, no benefits and negotiate with the government to get higher pay and benefits. Let us know how that works out.

Also, signing all these executive orders just shows a man who wants to be king and bypass the rule of law. I seem to recall that being an issue for righties under a different president.


LOL. What government agency is that? No such agency.


You hate unions. Therefore, just do not get unions involved and go get a government job paying whatever they want to pay you and deal with the government whenever you want benefits (health care or retirement) or a living wage.
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tommy1808
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Re: Judge deals blow to Trumps effort to overhaul Bureaucracy.

Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:22 am

DL717 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
Can you honestly think of the last time a government employee was ever mistreated?


A few former FBI names come to mind....

WarRI1 wrote:
But they have them to defend against such as what we have here. This is proof of the need in this legal decision as we can see. No different than any other worker, they have rights.


Here we have two kinds of government workers:

Employees, that have the same rights and risks as any employee in the economy.
"Beamten", that give up rights (no unions, no strike, can be recalled out of retirement etc) in return for lifetime employ. Since they are very hard to get rid of, needs serious wrong doing, they are free to apply law as intended, without anyone able to tell them otherwise. Can't fire a cop to end or obstruct an investigation, can't fire a building expector because he is shouting down buildings of a big employer...

I think governments need both types.

Best regards
Thomas


Those former FBI chaps you mention colossally effed up.


One of them was supposed to be demoted and suspended for a couple of weeks for making the FBI look bad, but got fired.

Remember that those ignored Clinton emails and bad accusations in the IG report are just made up and don't exist.

Best regards
Thomas
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Re: Judge deals blow to Trumps effort to overhaul Bureaucracy.

Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:51 am

DL717 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Government employees are servants of the people. They do not need unions to rape the taxpayers, politicians will do it for them. Most of them are grossly overpaid and should be embarrassed.


But they have them to defend against such as what we have here. This is proof of the need in this legal decision as we can see. No different than any other worker, they have rights. Of course that is the problem of course, they have rights, which includes the right to contest unfair treatment from their employer.


Can you honestly think of the last time a government employee was ever mistreated? Give me an effing break. Government employees do half the work of a civilian employee, make the same money and unless they are a total eff up have zero chance of ever being fired. They also have ridiculously generous benefits that have zero to do with any union.


DoD here. Yes. Government employees can be mistreated AND our unions aren't allowed to strike. They're neutered as it is. The rest of what you are saying is offensive. Employees actually leave and come back as private contractors because they can get paid more.

Also I had a co-worker get fired for smoking outside the designated smoking area. Yeah, they can fire you. Over stupid petty bullshit. Like reporting illegal activity on a member of management can and will expose you to retaliatory measures. That's what the unions are for.
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Re: Judge deals blow to Trumps effort to overhaul Bureaucracy.

Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:37 pm

Collective bargaining and the right to organize are critical components in private-sector business - but labor union representation of public employees is an entirely different thing. There are solid and rational arguments for completely eliminating public-sector unions, but absent such elimination, the adjustments which had been proposed by the executive branch were not out of line at all (have you read them?).
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Re: Judge deals blow to Trumps effort to overhaul Bureaucracy.

Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:39 am

sccutler wrote:
Collective bargaining and the right to organize are critical components in private-sector business - but labor union representation of public employees is an entirely different thing. There are solid and rational arguments for completely eliminating public-sector unions, but absent such elimination, the adjustments which had been proposed by the executive branch were not out of line at all (have you read them?).


Yeah, I sure have. Like I said, unions are already extremely limited in what they can do in the public sector. The goal of the executive order was to A.)effectively kill the unions and B.) Allow officials to fire employees they don't like, angry at, etc by issuing a PIP (the requirements of succeeding in these are 100% arbitrary) that doesn't give enough time to fight back if reprisal is suspected (I've found that most internal investigations frequently last in excess of 6 months).

The timing of the order also indicated the president really wanted to purge the FBI of anyone who disliked him. However it's illegal to fire employees for their political views. PIPs are a frequently used method of firing people without revealing real motives. They just say "poor performance".
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WarRI1
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Re: Judge deals blow to Trumps effort to overhaul Bureaucracy.

Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:57 am

sccutler wrote:
Collective bargaining and the right to organize are critical components in private-sector business - but labor union representation of public employees is an entirely different thing. There are solid and rational arguments for completely eliminating public-sector unions, but absent such elimination, the adjustments which had been proposed by the executive branch were not out of line at all (have you read them?).


But whose solid and rational arguments , the buffoon, the union buster Ask the workers about solid and rational arguments, you might find out how solid and rational they really are. Of course alternate facts and truth not being truth might come into play.
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DL717
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Re: Judge deals blow to Trumps effort to overhaul Bureaucracy.

Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:00 am

Jouhou wrote:
DL717 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:

But they have them to defend against such as what we have here. This is proof of the need in this legal decision as we can see. No different than any other worker, they have rights. Of course that is the problem of course, they have rights, which includes the right to contest unfair treatment from their employer.


Can you honestly think of the last time a government employee was ever mistreated? Give me an effing break. Government employees do half the work of a civilian employee, make the same money and unless they are a total eff up have zero chance of ever being fired. They also have ridiculously generous benefits that have zero to do with any union.


DoD here. Yes. Government employees can be mistreated AND our unions aren't allowed to strike. They're neutered as it is. The rest of what you are saying is offensive. Employees actually leave and come back as private contractors because they can get paid more.

Also I had a co-worker get fired for smoking outside the designated smoking area. Yeah, they can fire you. Over stupid petty bullshit. Like reporting illegal activity on a member of management can and will expose you to retaliatory measures. That's what the unions are for.


Nobody got fired for smoking unless they were warned on multiple occasions. Government agencies can’t just fire people. The legal liability is too great.
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Jouhou
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Re: Judge deals blow to Trumps effort to overhaul Bureaucracy.

Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:55 am

DL717 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Can you honestly think of the last time a government employee was ever mistreated? Give me an effing break. Government employees do half the work of a civilian employee, make the same money and unless they are a total eff up have zero chance of ever being fired. They also have ridiculously generous benefits that have zero to do with any union.


DoD here. Yes. Government employees can be mistreated AND our unions aren't allowed to strike. They're neutered as it is. The rest of what you are saying is offensive. Employees actually leave and come back as private contractors because they can get paid more.

Also I had a co-worker get fired for smoking outside the designated smoking area. Yeah, they can fire you. Over stupid petty bullshit. Like reporting illegal activity on a member of management can and will expose you to retaliatory measures. That's what the unions are for.


Nobody got fired for smoking unless they were warned on multiple occasions. Government agencies can’t just fire people. The legal liability is too great.


Any idea how expensive a federal lawyer is? They only work pro bono in cases of extreme misconduct, such as a manager punching a worker and proceeding to try strangling them (has actually happened). Or being forced to give sexual favors to one's boss (happens far too often). It's also hard getting evidence to the outside when everything has been deemed sensitive information.

And to answer "can't just fire people" they do it all the time. They're banking on people not wasting their time and money with a lawyer. It might be different in other government agencies that aren't so security oriented, but for us that's how it is.

I once was brought into a meeting by my codes too boss, who had lies about the intentions of the meeting. He slapped 2 thick folders marked "confidential" on his desk, which turned out was one I was a key witness in. He went through it angrily and tried making me retract my statements. I refused and he told me if I didn't keep my head down and do as I was told I would be looking for a new job.

After it became apparent they were about to try manufacturing a reason to can me, I went to EEO, the inspector general, and consulted with a federal lawyer. At the settlement I insisted that they clean up the corruption in the work place, get my bad egg bosses off my back, and didnt ask for cash because that is the tax payers money. In the process I helped my cigarette smoking co-worker his job back because I was a witness to management bluntly stating their motivation and intentions about what they were doing with him in my presence. I reported it. Their reasons weren't legal.

After that whole mess i informed management that if they continue doing sketchy business, to not do it or talk about it in front of me because I will report their corrupt asses. I care about the greater good of our country over pleasing powerful people who abuse power.
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Jouhou
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Re: Judge deals blow to Trumps effort to overhaul Bureaucracy.

Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:44 am

Too late to edit errors: that was " my codes top boss", who had "lied" the folders were Inspector General investigations
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WarRI1
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Re: Judge deals blow to Trumps effort to overhaul Bureaucracy.

Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:25 am

Jouhou wrote:
Too late to edit errors: that was " my codes top boss", who had "lied" the folders were Inspector General investigations



You will not get any answer, you sound like you know what you are talking about with Federal Employees and being fired, that usually is enough to silence the experts who are not.
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Jouhou
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Re: Judge deals blow to Trumps effort to overhaul Bureaucracy.

Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:52 am

WarRI1 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Too late to edit errors: that was " my codes top boss", who had "lied" the folders were Inspector General investigations



You will not get any answer, you sound like you know what you are talking about with Federal Employees and being fired, that usually is enough to silence the experts who are not.


Thanks, I generally stay away from talking about my work outside of work. In this case the conversation definitely rubbed me the wrong way, because I know exactly how much I've sacrificed for what I do, and I know what others have as well. If you take security into consideration, we can't exactly go around bragging about what we've done for our country. We sure as hell are not going to see any publicity for our actions.
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WarRI1
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Re: Judge deals blow to Trumps effort to overhaul Bureaucracy.

Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:23 am

Jouhou wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Too late to edit errors: that was " my codes top boss", who had "lied" the folders were Inspector General investigations



You will not get any answer, you sound like you know what you are talking about with Federal Employees and being fired, that usually is enough to silence the experts who are not.


Thanks, I generally stay away from talking about my work outside of work. In this case the conversation definitely rubbed me the wrong way, because I know exactly how much I've sacrificed for what I do, and I know what others have as well. If you take security into consideration, we can't exactly go around bragging about what we've done for our country. We sure as hell are not going to see any publicity for our actions.



I still do not see any rebuttals from the Experts. Nothing they fear more than someone who knows what they are talking about. That usually stops the conversation dead in its tracks.
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DL717
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Re: Judge deals blow to Trumps effort to overhaul Bureaucracy.

Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:57 am

Jouhou wrote:
DL717 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:

DoD here. Yes. Government employees can be mistreated AND our unions aren't allowed to strike. They're neutered as it is. The rest of what you are saying is offensive. Employees actually leave and come back as private contractors because they can get paid more.

Also I had a co-worker get fired for smoking outside the designated smoking area. Yeah, they can fire you. Over stupid petty bullshit. Like reporting illegal activity on a member of management can and will expose you to retaliatory measures. That's what the unions are for.


Nobody got fired for smoking unless they were warned on multiple occasions. Government agencies can’t just fire people. The legal liability is too great.


Any idea how expensive a federal lawyer is? They only work pro bono in cases of extreme misconduct, such as a manager punching a worker and proceeding to try strangling them (has actually happened). Or being forced to give sexual favors to one's boss (happens far too often). It's also hard getting evidence to the outside when everything has been deemed sensitive information.

And to answer "can't just fire people" they do it all the time. They're banking on people not wasting their time and money with a lawyer. It might be different in other government agencies that aren't so security oriented, but for us that's how it is.

I once was brought into a meeting by my codes too boss, who had lies about the intentions of the meeting. He slapped 2 thick folders marked "confidential" on his desk, which turned out was one I was a key witness in. He went through it angrily and tried making me retract my statements. I refused and he told me if I didn't keep my head down and do as I was told I would be looking for a new job.

After it became apparent they were about to try manufacturing a reason to can me, I went to EEO, the inspector general, and consulted with a federal lawyer. At the settlement I insisted that they clean up the corruption in the work place, get my bad egg bosses off my back, and didnt ask for cash because that is the tax payers money. In the process I helped my cigarette smoking co-worker his job back because I was a witness to management bluntly stating their motivation and intentions about what they were doing with him in my presence. I reported it. Their reasons weren't legal.

After that whole mess i informed management that if they continue doing sketchy business, to not do it or talk about it in front of me because I will report their corrupt asses. I care about the greater good of our country over pleasing powerful people who abuse power.


Do said managers still have their jobs? My point proven. Next.
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WarRI1
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Re: Judge deals blow to Trumps effort to overhaul Bureaucracy.

Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:07 am

DL717 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Nobody got fired for smoking unless they were warned on multiple occasions. Government agencies can’t just fire people. The legal liability is too great.


Any idea how expensive a federal lawyer is? They only work pro bono in cases of extreme misconduct, such as a manager punching a worker and proceeding to try strangling them (has actually happened). Or being forced to give sexual favors to one's boss (happens far too often). It's also hard getting evidence to the outside when everything has been deemed sensitive information.

And to answer "can't just fire people" they do it all the time. They're banking on people not wasting their time and money with a lawyer. It might be different in other government agencies that aren't so security oriented, but for us that's how it is.

I once was brought into a meeting by my codes too boss, who had lies about the intentions of the meeting. He slapped 2 thick folders marked "confidential" on his desk, which turned out was one I was a key witness in. He went through it angrily and tried making me retract my statements. I refused and he told me if I didn't keep my head down and do as I was told I would be looking for a new job.

After it became apparent they were about to try manufacturing a reason to can me, I went to EEO, the inspector general, and consulted with a federal lawyer. At the settlement I insisted that



they clean up the corruption in the work place, get my bad egg bosses off my back, and didnt ask for cash because that is the tax payers money. In the process I helped my cigarette smoking co-worker his job back because I was a witness to management bluntly stating their motivation and intentions about what they were doing with him in my presence. I reported it. Their reasons weren't legal.

After that whole mess i informed management that if they continue doing sketchy business, to not do it or talk about it in front of me because I will report their corrupt asses. I care about the greater good of our country over pleasing powerful people who abuse power.




Do said managers still have their jobs? My point proven. Next.




How can you make such a claim, you know nothing of the case, I am afraid you have proven nothing.
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Jouhou
Posts: 2539
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Judge deals blow to Trumps effort to overhaul Bureaucracy.

Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:12 am

DL717 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Nobody got fired for smoking unless they were warned on multiple occasions. Government agencies can’t just fire people. The legal liability is too great.


Any idea how expensive a federal lawyer is? They only work pro bono in cases of extreme misconduct, such as a manager punching a worker and proceeding to try strangling them (has actually happened). Or being forced to give sexual favors to one's boss (happens far too often). It's also hard getting evidence to the outside when everything has been deemed sensitive information.

And to answer "can't just fire people" they do it all the time. They're banking on people not wasting their time and money with a lawyer. It might be different in other government agencies that aren't so security oriented, but for us that's how it is.

I once was brought into a meeting by my codes too boss, who had lies about the intentions of the meeting. He slapped 2 thick folders marked "confidential" on his desk, which turned out was one I was a key witness in. He went through it angrily and tried making me retract my statements. I refused and he told me if I didn't keep my head down and do as I was told I would be looking for a new job.

After it became apparent they were about to try manufacturing a reason to can me, I went to EEO, the inspector general, and consulted with a federal lawyer. At the settlement I insisted that they clean up the corruption in the work place, get my bad egg bosses off my back, and didnt ask for cash because that is the tax payers money. In the process I helped my cigarette smoking co-worker his job back because I was a witness to management bluntly stating their motivation and intentions about what they were doing with him in my presence. I reported it. Their reasons weren't legal.

After that whole mess i informed management that if they continue doing sketchy business, to not do it or talk about it in front of me because I will report their corrupt asses. I care about the greater good of our country over pleasing powerful people who abuse power.


Do said managers still have their jobs? My point proven. Next.


One killed himself, the other retired. So no, they actually dont. Next.

The guy who got fired and got his job back also killed himself. Boy, being federal employees is just so easy. We clearly are loving it.
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DL717
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Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 10:53 pm

Re: Judge deals blow to Trumps effort to overhaul Bureaucracy.

Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:17 pm

Jouhou wrote:
DL717 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:

Any idea how expensive a federal lawyer is? They only work pro bono in cases of extreme misconduct, such as a manager punching a worker and proceeding to try strangling them (has actually happened). Or being forced to give sexual favors to one's boss (happens far too often). It's also hard getting evidence to the outside when everything has been deemed sensitive information.

And to answer "can't just fire people" they do it all the time. They're banking on people not wasting their time and money with a lawyer. It might be different in other government agencies that aren't so security oriented, but for us that's how it is.

I once was brought into a meeting by my codes too boss, who had lies about the intentions of the meeting. He slapped 2 thick folders marked "confidential" on his desk, which turned out was one I was a key witness in. He went through it angrily and tried making me retract my statements. I refused and he told me if I didn't keep my head down and do as I was told I would be looking for a new job.

After it became apparent they were about to try manufacturing a reason to can me, I went to EEO, the inspector general, and consulted with a federal lawyer. At the settlement I insisted that they clean up the corruption in the work place, get my bad egg bosses off my back, and didnt ask for cash because that is the tax payers money. In the process I helped my cigarette smoking co-worker his job back because I was a witness to management bluntly stating their motivation and intentions about what they were doing with him in my presence. I reported it. Their reasons weren't legal.

After that whole mess i informed management that if they continue doing sketchy business, to not do it or talk about it in front of me because I will report their corrupt asses. I care about the greater good of our country over pleasing powerful people who abuse power.


Do said managers still have their jobs? My point proven. Next.


One killed himself, the other retired. So no, they actually dont. Next.

The guy who got fired and got his job back also killed himself. Boy, being federal employees is just so easy. We clearly are loving it.


So...they both kept their jobs and the guy who got fired got his job back. Got it.
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N867DA
Posts: 1148
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 12:53 am

Re: Judge deals blow to Trumps effort to overhaul Bureaucracy.

Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:40 pm

Obviously working for the government means you should get less benefits and pay. Every penny you get is one cent too more because it's paid for by The Taxpayer. We can overlook incompetence and bureaucracy in the private sector but we should always get very angry when a government worker buys a Coke instead of settling for Sam's Choice soda.
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
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Jouhou
Posts: 2539
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Judge deals blow to Trumps effort to overhaul Bureaucracy.

Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:38 am

DL717 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Do said managers still have their jobs? My point proven. Next.


One killed himself, the other retired. So no, they actually dont. Next.

The guy who got fired and got his job back also killed himself. Boy, being federal employees is just so easy. We clearly are loving it.


So...they both kept their jobs and the guy who got fired got his job back. Got it.


No, one guy got removed from his position while some ungodly amount of investigations were open on him and offed himself after his final scandal in which he knocked up his secretary. The guy who retired did so with open investigations and right after the guy he fired offed himself.

As I mentioned, internal investigations frequently take years to complete. And they usually spawn even more investigations as they move along.

Also, what point are you making? These managers aren't even represented by a union. If their boss didn't like them they'd have been fired in a heartbeat. However, their boss is the type that assumes the worker is always whining and making things up and sides with the managers until criminal charges come along. I think it took the worker suicide and the pregnant secretary for him to realize the misconduct was real.
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