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flapsdown40
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Will there ever be a USS John S McCain III aircraft carrier?

Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:45 pm

Just wondering if a future, not-yet built Ford-class US Navy aircraft carrier would ever be named after the late US senator John S. McCain III?

The newest carrier currently under construction at the Newport News Shipbuilding facility is the USS John F. Kennedy, CVN79.

The one after Kennedy will be named USS Enterprise (CVN80) in tribute to the first nuclear-powered US Navy carrier.

CVN81 and CVN82 are as yet unnamed, and years away from production, but are planned to be built. So perhaps one of these could be named
USS John S McCain? Source regarding future carrier names: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_a ... tates_Navy

Along a somewhat similar topic, but does anyone feel that future aircraft carriers could be named after famous Forrestal and Kitty Hawk- class carriers, such as the Forrestal, Saratoga, Ranger, Independence, Kitty Hawk, Constellation, and America?

Perhaps USS Forrestal shouldn't be used, as John McCain was almost killed in the absolutely horrendous inferno that Forrestal suffered in July of 1967 while operating in the Gulf of Tonkin in support of the US Navy's mission during the Vietnam war. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_USS_Forrestal_fire

Just wondering how others feel of new aircraft carriers being named after famous carriers that served our country so well in years past.
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trpmb6
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Re: Will there ever be a USS John S McCain III aircraft carrier?

Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:55 pm

Personally I'd prefer to continue the current trend of selecting presidents (for the most part, a couple exceptions). But I'd have no objection to a USS McCain either.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Will there ever be a USS John S McCain III aircraft carrier?

Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:57 pm

flapsdown40 wrote:
US Navy aircraft carrier would ever be named after the late US senator John S. McCain III?

No.
And I don't think there should be.

I find even the presidential naming to be unnecessary and preferred the naming convention using mostly great battles or previous ships that earned honors in battle. But with the cat out of the bag, presidents seem to be the "go to" now and there can be another ship of the line that can be named for him if needed.

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johns624
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Re: Will there ever be a USS John S McCain III aircraft carrier?

Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:36 pm

Not needed. There's already a ship named after him. DDG-56, an Arleigh Burke class destroyer, was originally named after his grandfather and father. Back in July, they rededicated it in his honor, too. Two USS McCain's would just cause confusion.
 
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cjg225
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Re: Will there ever be a USS John S McCain III aircraft carrier?

Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:38 am

Meanwhile, back on topic....

Yeah, the Burke-Class destroyer USS John S. McCain would have to be renamed/decommisioned before a new McCain for the late senator from Arizona was given one.

As for the more general idea of how we name aircraft carriers, I'd be good if the convention of naming them after Presidents slowly went away. It was started in a time when nearly all presidents were not only military veterans but also combat veterans, with a couple exceptions. That's not the case anymore.

I was just thinking about this the other night for some reason that I can't remember; I felt like the naming convention in the World War II era made more sense. We've had a shift. Destroyers were named for people, cruisers were named for cities, battleships were named for states, carriers were named for battles or places or historic events, and submarines were named for fish. Since then, it's all shifted around except for the naming convention for destroyers. Now fleet carriers are named for people, cruisers and amphibious warfare ships are named for battles, and submarines are named for states and cities. I thought the hierarchy of naming in the World War II era made a little more sense; granted, we still had battleships then, and most ships were named in a time when the battleship was still the top of the food chain instead of the aircraft carrier.

It'd be nice if future fleet carriers were named for the historic carriers, like Hornet, Saratoga, Lexington, etc. Enterprise is already on the list, so she's taken care of. USS Wasp will be in commission, hopefully, for quite some more time, so her name is off the table for a while.
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trpmb6
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Re: Will there ever be a USS John S McCain III aircraft carrier?

Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:44 pm

cjg, as you noted, the ships have to be decommissioned before another can be named similarly. I think that's where they ran into problems. Eventually you have so many things floating out there that you run out of names and so carriers named after presidents came to be. We also have to account for the fact that historically significant ship names won't be re-used. USS Arizona for instance. Similarly with the USS Missouri which is now docked not far from the Arizona.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Will there ever be a USS John S McCain III aircraft carrier?

Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:20 pm

cjg225 wrote:
Meanwhile, back on topic....

Yeah, the Burke-Class destroyer USS John S. McCain would have to be renamed/decommisioned before a new McCain for the late senator from Arizona was given one.

As for the more general idea of how we name aircraft carriers, I'd be good if the convention of naming them after Presidents slowly went away. It was started in a time when nearly all presidents were not only military veterans but also combat veterans, with a couple exceptions. That's not the case anymore.

I was just thinking about this the other night for some reason that I can't remember; I felt like the naming convention in the World War II era made more sense. We've had a shift. Destroyers were named for people, cruisers were named for cities, battleships were named for states, carriers were named for battles or places or historic events, and submarines were named for fish. Since then, it's all shifted around except for the naming convention for destroyers. Now fleet carriers are named for people, cruisers and amphibious warfare ships are named for battles, and submarines are named for states and cities. I thought the hierarchy of naming in the World War II era made a little more sense; granted, we still had battleships then, and most ships were named in a time when the battleship was still the top of the food chain instead of the aircraft carrier.

It'd be nice if future fleet carriers were named for the historic carriers, like Hornet, Saratoga, Lexington, etc. Enterprise is already on the list, so she's taken care of. USS Wasp will be in commission, hopefully, for quite some more time, so her name is off the table for a while.


I'd like to see a Lexington again. Perhaps even a Midway. Carrier names should evoke pride. Freedom, Stars and Stripes, Independence, Constitution, Gettysburg.
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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Will there ever be a USS John S McCain III aircraft carrier?

Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:51 pm

The USN ships named Enterprise, Ranger, Constellation, America, Saratoga all go back to the very beginnings of USN history. Enterprise won the battle fought by sailing ships off Maine when they defeated a British ship. Both captains were killed and buried in the same Portland, ME cemetery.

The Navy should stop naming ships after politicians that happened to vote for naval budgets-Stennis, Vinson and go back to using historically significant naval heroes. The McCain names are for Senator McCain’s ancestors who were the first father and son admirals and were career navy. Both fought in major conflicts and his grandfather sailed on the Great White Fleet and was a carrier admiral in WW II.

GF
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Will there ever be a USS John S McCain III aircraft carrier?

Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:03 pm

Nimitz, Vinson, and Stennis weren't presidents. I think there should be a USS John S. McCain carrier. Just keep the other McCain ships out of the McCain battlegroup and there shouldnt be much confusion.

BTW imagine the a.net fall out if theres ever a USS Trump. :stirthepot:
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trpmb6
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Re: Will there ever be a USS John S McCain III aircraft carrier?

Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:04 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
Nimitz, Vinson, and Stennis weren't presidents. I think there should be a USS John S. McCain carrier. Just keep the other McCain ships out of the McCain battlegroup and there shouldnt be much confusion.

BTW imagine the a.net fall out if theres ever a USS Trump. :stirthepot:


Personally I'm against naming anything against anyone living. It just seems like something akin to royalty.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Will there ever be a USS John S McCain III aircraft carrier?

Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:13 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
Nimitz, Vinson, and Stennis weren't presidents. I think there should be a USS John S. McCain carrier. Just keep the other McCain ships out of the McCain battlegroup and there shouldnt be much confusion.

BTW imagine the a.net fall out if theres ever a USS Trump. :stirthepot:


Personally I'm against naming anything against anyone living. It just seems like something akin to royalty.

McCain has passed away, and the Trump comment was just a joke. I dont believe in naming things after loving people neither but Bush 1.0 has both a carrier and airport named after him.
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trpmb6
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Re: Will there ever be a USS John S McCain III aircraft carrier?

Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:22 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
Nimitz, Vinson, and Stennis weren't presidents. I think there should be a USS John S. McCain carrier. Just keep the other McCain ships out of the McCain battlegroup and there shouldnt be much confusion.

BTW imagine the a.net fall out if theres ever a USS Trump. :stirthepot:


Personally I'm against naming anything against anyone living. It just seems like something akin to royalty.

McCain has passed away, and the Trump comment was just a joke. I dont believe in naming things after loving people neither but Bush 1.0 has both a carrier and airport named after him.


Oh I know you were joking.

And I had the USS George H.W. Bush exactly in mind when I made that comment. Was also thinking about USS Ronald Reagan as he was alive when it was commissioned (although just barely ~1 year).

I think the next ship to be named should be USS Pearl Harbor. I wonder what the world (perhaps more specifically Japan) would think if we named a USS Hiroshima and USS Nagasaki. Anyone here care to share their thoughts (free of any criticisms, I'm truly interested in how that would be viewed).
 
cledaybuck
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Re: Will there ever be a USS John S McCain III aircraft carrier?

Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:22 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
I dont believe in naming things after loving people
Trump should be a shoe in then :D
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Re: Will there ever be a USS John S McCain III aircraft carrier?

Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:24 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:

Personally I'm against naming anything against anyone living. It just seems like something akin to royalty.

McCain has passed away, and the Trump comment was just a joke. I dont believe in naming things after loving people neither but Bush 1.0 has both a carrier and airport named after him.


Oh I know you were joking.

And I had the USS George H.W. Bush exactly in mind when I made that comment. Was also thinking about USS Ronald Reagan as he was alive when it was commissioned (although just barely ~1 year).

I think the next ship to be named should be USS Pearl Harbor. I wonder what the world (perhaps more specifically Japan) would think if we named a USS Hiroshima and USS Nagasaki. Anyone here care to share their thoughts (free of any criticisms, I'm truly interested in how that would be viewed).
I don't think Hiroshima or Nagasaki would go over well.
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trpmb6
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Re: Will there ever be a USS John S McCain III aircraft carrier?

Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:37 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
I don't think Hiroshima or Nagasaki would go over well.



Yeah, you're probably right. Even if trying to pass it off as an in kind gesture.

Though, we do have a USS iwo jima..
 
johns624
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Re: Will there ever be a USS John S McCain III aircraft carrier?

Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:39 pm

Nix the USS Pearl Harbor. You don't name ships after defeats.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Will there ever be a USS John S McCain III aircraft carrier?

Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:43 pm

johns624 wrote:
Nix the USS Pearl Harbor. You don't name ships after defeats.


That's a very valid point that I should have thought of first. And a little embarrassed to be honest.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Will there ever be a USS John S McCain III aircraft carrier?

Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:20 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
I don't think Hiroshima or Nagasaki would go over well.



Yeah, you're probably right. Even if trying to pass it off as an in kind gesture.

Though, we do have a USS iwo jima..

We've had ships named after American Revolution battles too. We also have the USS Makin Island, and had the USS Midway and USS Saipan. Amphibious assault ships are named after battles carried out by the USMC.
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desertjets
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Re: Will there ever be a USS John S McCain III aircraft carrier?

Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:40 pm

To be pedantic, since this is a.net the USS McCain, DDG-56, was rededicated in July to honor all three. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_John_S._McCain_(DDG-56) But the cat is long since out of the bag with both the Stennis and Vinson and naming CVNs after politicians. As an aside perhaps the next carrier could be named the USS Alexander Hamilton to tie into the current popularity of the musical Hamilton.

trpmb6 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:

I wonder what the world (perhaps more specifically Japan) would think if we named a USS Hiroshima and USS Nagasaki. Anyone here care to share their thoughts (free of any criticisms, I'm truly interested in how that would be viewed).


Though as complex and nuanced the decision was to use the atomic bomb on Japan and how it was the best of a bunch of very bad options regarding how to end the war in the Pacific, this is a horrible stupid idea. You don't name ships after complex and nuanced things. And if you are going to name ships after military battles honestly I think sticking w/ Revolutionary War battles is fine especially given that many of them have been used historically for US Navy ships.
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cjg225
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Re: Will there ever be a USS John S McCain III aircraft carrier?

Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:59 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
The USN ships named Enterprise, Ranger, Constellation, America, Saratoga all go back to the very beginnings of USN history. Enterprise won the battle fought by sailing ships off Maine when they defeated a British ship. Both captains were killed and buried in the same Portland, ME cemetery.

The Navy should stop naming ships after politicians that happened to vote for naval budgets-Stennis, Vinson and go back to using historically significant naval heroes. The McCain names are for Senator McCain’s ancestors who were the first father and son admirals and were career navy. Both fought in major conflicts and his grandfather sailed on the Great White Fleet and was a carrier admiral in WW II.

GF


Agreed. To the extent possible, I'd like to see those historical ship names reused.

I'm surprised that there hasn't been another Hornet since the Essex-Class USS Hornet was decommissioned nearly 50 years ago.

trpmb6 wrote:

And I had the USS George H.W. Bush exactly in mind when I made that comment. Was also thinking about USS Ronald Reagan as he was alive when it was commissioned (although just barely ~1 year).

I get what you're saying, but as I had said in my earlier post, I don't have as much of a problem with naming carriers after presidents when the presidents were military personnel and combat veterans. Bush was the youngest naval aviator in the USN at one point, flew many combat missions, and was shot down during a raid on Chichijima.

But, those days are long past us now. It'll be some time, probably, before we see a combat veteran in our highest office.


trpmb6 wrote:
cjg, as you noted, the ships have to be decommissioned before another can be named similarly. I think that's where they ran into problems. Eventually you have so many things floating out there that you run out of names and so carriers named after presidents came to be. We also have to account for the fact that historically significant ship names won't be re-used. USS Arizona for instance. Similarly with the USS Missouri which is now docked not far from the Arizona.

Being a museum ship doesn't disqualify a name from being reused. There's a Virginia-Class attack submarine USS Missouri in active service. The next USS Iowa and USS New Jersey are under construction now, amongst a smattering of other vessels whose names are shared by museum ships.

You're probably right about Arizona, but we've come close. The next USS Utah is on order, but hasn't yet begun construction. Most of the wreck of the first Utah was never recovered from Pearl Harbor. There's a memorial there now.
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